What Role Should Women Play in the Mating Game? | Girls Chase

What Role Should Women Play in the Mating Game?

mating gameCommenting on “What to Do When a Girl Won’t Go Home with You”, Blogster asks about what women’s responsibilities are in the mating game and where a man must “draw the line” when it comes to trying to make a girl his:

Do take your point on this one. However, at what point does all the game advice for men cross into the territory of a woman’s jurisdiction?

With each piece of advice about how to handle situations and tighten your game, it sees more and more of the woman’s responsibility being transferred over to men.

One of the admirable traits of men generally is that we are self-motivated and proactive and take charge. We look for our own mistakes and correct. However I feel the manosphere and valuable dating advice sources such as girlschase makes the mistake of swinging too far with the attitude of ‘if it didn’t go well, you the man did something wrong, or should of done something better’. Accountability is good, assuming complete agency is ridiculous and unrealistic, as it assumes the man has the capacity to control all relevant circumstances affecting a pickup and that by improving and fine tuning technique results will come.

The implications for this are obvious – women are just automatons and have no individual preference, attraction will occur reasonably successfully if you master the right techniques smoothly and ultimately, that women have no agency as adults.

It also plays into and reinforces current societies frame regarding relationships – that the man must do all the work and its the man’s fault if something goes wrong or the seduction doesn’t occur.

Increasingly also I see double standards in advice being doled out. For example, a recent post spoke about how to deal with judgement. It says its crucial not to judge women, yet women are by far the more judgemental sex and constantly do so on a broader range of factors.

A man is expected to skilfully disarm a woman’s judgements, but a woman is not expected too because otherwise she ‘won’t open up’. Does it occur to you that maybe men don’t open up because of female judgement and thus lose out? Yet the onus seems always on the man. Put it this way, if your friend was constantly dodging responsibility and being unnecessarily judgemental would you pander to him?

A man is expected to overcome his approach anxiety by himself. Is there any advice anywhere that says about how women should ‘help the man through his approach anxiety’? Of course not, yet there is plenty of expectation that a man should smooth and ease the women in the last moments before seduction.

In this instance, I feel it pushes the ‘responsibility balance’ of game even further towards the man. Soon all the woman will have to do is show up!

This comment no doubt reflects a lot of men’s frustrations over the travails of mating – I’ve heard them the world over, in any number of different cultures, and if you read back through history you can read of men from all ages complaining of the same things.

So what are women’s responsibilities in dating and mating? Do they serve as just passive recipients of men’s advances? And if at first you don’t succeed – how many times should you really try and try again?

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.


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Anonymous's picture


I find myself constantly struggling between how much effort I should put into getting girls vs. saving face. I have a hard time putting myself out there to get a girl because I am really concerned about looking desperate or displaying what could be considered socially unacceptable behavior. I am just concerned about looking creepy as I am trying the hard push to pull a girl home. Is looking creepy and acting socially unacceptable part of the learning process ?
Thanks in advance Chase.

Chase Amante's picture


If you're still worried about losing face or looking creepy / socially unacceptable, you're not yet at a place where you should be attempting the hard push. You won't be there until you're already fairly skilled picking women up, you're already getting laid somewhat consistently, and now that you know what you're doing it's time to really get your process on lock and start closing things out like a boss.

Would I'd suggest working on instead is just regular dates, probably using date compression so that you're still following a socially-accepted path to the bedroom, and just getting comfortable taking women through the dating process and sleeping with them. Once you get this down, you can focus on breaking more social norms and conventions - you'll know when you're ready, because the concept of breaking them will be exciting as much as it is a little scary.


G's picture

A quality piece sir.


Sam2's picture


1) If a man decides he wants something from a woman more than she does, doesn't this thinking alone prepare him for chasing?

2) Even if you really wanted it more, what if you actually pretend that you don't want it by actually quitting your efforts after a point? Isn't the seduction game a game of impressions after all? Women do it all the time; they play coy and indifferent as if they don't need men.

3) Your point about the higher sexual value of an even average-looking woman compared to even a reasonably attractive, sexy man made me wonder: then what's the point for men trying to improve themselves, if even then their sexual value can't match that of an average woman?

Suggestion: in tandem with the article on victim mentality, we could see another one on what factors men don't control in dating. Feeling like a victim is problematic, but feeling like everything is in your hands isn't problematic as well? Would you personally attribute all your incomplete interactions with women to a lack of skill? Would you take on your shoulders her moodiness, social conditioning, family values, culture, upbringing, craziness, bitchiness and whatnot?

Chase Amante's picture


That's a fun suggestion on the "what factors do men not control during a pickup" article. Some of that's discussed in the article on asymmetric returns, but one exclusively devoted to it and more specific to that question would be good.

If you want something from a specific woman more than she wants ANYTHING from you, then yes, you'll end up in a chasing position. However, if there is SOMETHING she wants from you more than you need anything from her, you can make her chase instead. The thing to keep in mind is that while a woman may not want sex from you as much as you want it from her (or maybe she does! Depends on the girl), the collective amount of "stuff" she wants from you may still be greater: she may want your attention, your touch, your masculine presence, the adventure and energy you provide to her, etc. The general feeling she gets from you if you're doing things right is something she has a very difficult time replacing, and a good seduction is essentially about giving her enough reasons to want you more than you want her.

If you DO want her more than she wants you, you can do your best to conceal this... few women will be fooled, but occasionally you'll have a girl who will just shrug and go along with it because she wants to get laid and you're making it easy for her and things like that. Many newer guys get their early experiences this way - the girl can TELL they want her more than she wants them, even if they're trying not to let it bleed through, and she just says to herself, "Ah, what the heck... he wants to sleep with me... maybe it'll be fun." Occasionally it's a nice break for a girl to sleep with a guy she can tell is really into her and whom she feels power over, instead of her always being in the confused / chasing position with the men she gets together with.

As for the sexual market value, remember, the example I used in the article is talking face value. Go up and knock on a door and how many people are ready for sex with you IMMEDIATELY. The point of seduction is bringing other forms of value to bear that allow her to capture additional value from you, bringing you in line with her, then over her (as opposed to, say, walking up to a woman, telling her you want to sleep with her, and her immediately deciding within 10 seconds of meeting you to walk off with you... happens occasionally, but normally you need to seduce her a little bit more than this in order to reach the point where she's pursuing you, even if you've got it all going on ).

Where women can get it whenever they want it by snapping their fingers, men need to follow a bit more of a process for it - which is also why men end up being the ones who work for it. Men HAVE to work for it (usually); women do not (usually). Of course, there are plenty of other things that men do not have to work for but women do (say, a relationship with an attractive member of the opposite sex whom you are giving phenomenal sex to - in most cases, if you want a relationship as a man at that point, it's snapping your fingers; for a woman, she's doing somersaults inside wondering if she's ever going to get it from you or if you're going to leave her hanging out to dry).


A's picture

2.5 years later.... this is freaking brilliant. I am a woman and you just summed it up perfectly! Thank you!

deus's picture

Yo chase.... I'll ask for some advice..
I live with my parents.. Im 18 college
I still don't have my own place or apartment.
What advice can you give us?
Should we still have dates and game women even if we know that we can't bed them later because we have no place to do it..(sex without bed is hard in our country or i just don't want to have sex without a bed).
Should we just improve our fundamentals and sexiness.
Should we just cold approach and just attract women even if we can't close..
Wanted know ur thoughts and experiences in this..

David Riley's picture

Hey Deus,

I highly encourage going on dates and talking to girls. The best thing to do is attempt to either go to her place or try sex in your car (if you have one). You could also try to escalate in public places as well. Bathrooms, behind buildings, in dark corners, library, the mall, and the park. There are so many options for you to choose from. I would even high recommend trying to bring a girl back when your parents aren't home too.

Take care,

Just Dave

Deus's picture

Thanks for the rep dave
I have many reasons to avoid having sex in those places..
I dont have a car... Restrooms are dirty and smelly in my country and the clean ones are guarded by janitors... and if its not guarded i we would be distured in case someone knocks... I cant think of bplaces that are passers free...but i will take your point on still dating girls... Maybe i just improve my game and consider kissing as a close.. I wanna be a hookup guy so i dont like long dates i just want bonding through sex... No choice but to date without sex... Ill just wait till i get my own place

blogster's picture

I certainly appreciate the way you have assessed my comment. You have definitely laid out your position. Upfront I say my comment is not bitterness or a "victim mentality" or "being pouty". I work very hard in all parts of my life and acknowledge hard work is a reality in life.

Some context is that I have recently finished my MBA internationally. Being a bit older, experienced, in shape etc. I was definitely getting attention. I was seeing someone casually and being focused on my career, had time for little else. But frequently a pattern would repeat itself - girl or group of girls sit near me, hover near me, like Facebook statuses, peer at me from across the room etc.

And yet they would do nothing. Women in an MBA program who want to be business leaders. Not even a lame situational conversation opener that would give them plausible deniability, or a follow up on something I said. They could have spoken about the program, the fact I was from a foreign country, anything. I was not necessarily interested, but could have been if they just gave me a reason to pursue. But nothing.

If I want something (coming across the world to do my MBA being one example) I do it. Yet the tedium of it was getting to me - in one case, within the space of 2 weeks one girl sat across from me at a coffee shop FOUR TIMES and did nothing else. One girl at a party who I had never seen before followed me to the bathroom 3 times and was obviously very nervous, but it was creepy. I just wanted to yell at her, "just say hello!". Yes hooking up is fun, but in the big picture I found it more and more difficult to respect them at a basic level.

A few things I would say:

* yes, there is no obligation on anyone, that is obvious. But if you are implying that my comment is saying there is some sort of obligation, that would be wrong. How common is it for women to throw up their hands in hindsight and say, "you didn't seem interested" or "you didn't pursue me enough" or "you didn't put in enough effort"? Common enough and I know I have, including one time where I said "you showed no interest, I am not a mind reader", with the response being, "you should know, I talked to you a couple of times".

You have to admit that women have an asymmetrical, self focused view on this. Often enough, they see the seduction/relationship process as it revolves solely around them. They see it as to how it affects them, with how they make the man feel a peripheral concern, a by-product. If he generates good feelings than yes, they will go along with it. But seek to provide them? That's not a conscious driver for them. No women goes out and says, "you know what, I'm gonna make some men feel good tonight" (and Im not talking sex specifically). If women ever try to create the experience as you mention, they usually fail miserably. Their viewpoint on this is more about validation, security and ego boosting than anything else.

* from a practical perspective I would also say this - effort, skill development, social risk, rejections are greater for men. I have no qualms with putting in work. Yet if guy and girl hook up, same reward. My career has involved knocking down doors, but I understand there is a clearly defined asymmetrical power relationship - me vs. a corporation. I get it. They have no obligation to give me their business. Yet man and woman are apparently supposed to be equal, but clearly isn't - the woman, by virtue of being approached has power. If women had to approach, the power balance would be very different. This kind of model wouldn't last in the business world, yet thanks to social conventions, remains alive and well in dating.

* I think we must also be honest and acknowledge that women naturally are passive and avoid responsibility. And not because of social shaming. The problem is the expectation of the same opportunities and rewards as men along with the fact that the media, culture and the legal system, when it comes to relationships, are firmly in her corner. When it comes to hook up, she has the power as you say, with no responsibility. When it comes to relationships, inevitably cultural and social pressure tells him to 'man up', 'do the right thing', or indulge in shaming language, guilt trip, appeals to morality etc. Yet no similar cultural support exists for men in hook up ('don't be frigid' etc.) thanks to feminism. I've had several girls want commitment but DO NOTHING ACTIVE to show they are worth it. I sense they want it, but they don't put themselves forward. No demonstration of qualities etc. Then massive meltdowns and "you have commitment issues" comments. And society never asks women to look at themselves and what they bring to the table to inspire commitment.

* "but she still made the right call as far as preserving her sexual market value and being able to present herself to other long-term candidates as someone with a lower partner count is concerned." This comment really concerns me and is something you've said before. Not exacting encouraging.

Alek Novy has written about this concept in PUA. PUA is good in that it encourage self evaluation and not giving yourself excuses. PUA fails in its onus on making you the driver/accountable for everything. Have to agree with him there.

blogster's picture

Also to follow up:

"They absolutely want to find great men, date them, sleep with them, and have romances with them.

However... and here’s the problem that men run into: she may not want those things that badly with YOU.

The burden of convincing the other person rests with the one who wants it more."

This is a logical sleight of hand Chase. Of course it's not expected she be automatically interested in you. What I am talking about is effort and situations where she wants it to happen, but is a passenger in the process. You would admit, this is far too common - she expects someone else to make it happen.

Franco Lombardi's picture


Most of your comments are still coming from a lack of understanding a woman's mind as well as what her perceived position is in society and the "power" scale. Why do you think women are always pushing for equality? It's because they never feel like they have it. If they felt like they were actually equal to men, then you would stop seeing women petitioning for equality.

On the forum, I made a post once about the hierarchy of men and women and where they actually stand in terms of power, and it was of a pyramid shape that had these tiers:

Top: Powerful men
Middle: All women
Bottom: Weak men

However, as a woman, you never really see the bottom of the pyramid. The weak men are at home playing video games or masturbating to porn sites (even well into their 20s), so women don't even know these men exist. To women, the pyramid just looks like this:

Top: Men
Bottom: Women

If you don't believe me, ask any attractive woman whether or not she thinks men or women are at an advantage when it comes to dating and asking girls out, and, assuming she's truthful, she will almost always say men are at an advantage. But where does she come up with this view of the world?

Well, only powerful men are the ones who approach women, and they approach lots of them. So to women, the only men they really know about and desire are the ones who are highly desired by multitudes of women. From her perspective, there are tons of beautiful women vying for the attention of a few good, available men, and those available men are weary about settling down. So when a woman views things this way, her reputation and chance of getting rejected or publicly humiliated feels very high. There's a lot at stake when a woman has to put herself out there, and she will always feel like her chances of success are extremely minimal, even if it's not necessarily the case. And since dominant men WILL approach (because when you become a truly successful seducer, you realize that you ARE at the top of the pyramid since you can approach and sleep with women almost seamlessly), women will only put forth as much effort as they deem necessary to GET you to approach. How much effort each girl deems is necessary is going to be a combination of her experience with men as well as her amount of desire to have you, but it will always vary on a case-by-case basis.

Either way, your views of the disparities between men and women become irrelevant because things are never going to change. She doesn't need to approach, so she won't approach. She doesn't need that responsibility because, when you see things from her perspective, she already has plenty of other things to worry about, and she already feels like she is at the bottom of the food chain to begin with.

If this is something you realize as a man, then you can instead capitalize on it rather than try to fight it and lose every single time. Chase is not denying that what you are saying is true, but he is instead saying that any attempts to refute it or fight it are futile. Rather, it is best to become the man at the top of the pyramid and embrace the fact that women view you as a scarce resource.

- Franco

David Riley's picture

Hey Blogster,

To take Franco's comment one step further, you can become a great and powerful man. If you work to become that man, this is what the whole website is designed for. Getting women to love and chase you. Chase did all the hard work for us by doing the research. All we have to do is go out and practice it. We have to refine ourselves and work to set ourselves apart from the rest. A woman will instantly be able to tell you apart from the top and bottom men. Once you're a top specimen, she will be desiring you like crazy. Trust me.

Just Dave

Nate's picture

Hey chase,

Been reading your articles for sometime now and I have to say , it's some really helpful material. Well for me at least. Anyways, i am in a similar confilct relating to this article and i would love your opinion. You see, I've known this girl for a little over a year now and I can tell she's liked me ever since we've meet, even when she's had a boyfriend (she's currently single by the way).

I feel like I could ask her out and make her my girlfriend any day I wanted, but I feel held back by the fact that she's in high school and I am a freshmen in college and her parents don't let her go out too often, which makes going on dates difficult and with the responsiblities of a full time college student, asking her out seems like an unwise decision.

What is also holding me back is that if I ask her out, i'd be going against almost everything that Girls Chase has taught me, which is roughly, what I can think of at the moment is, Don't Chase and Move Fast. I'm somewhat ok with not chasing this girl, seeing as though i'm somewhat in the friends zone, but in my life i've noticed that girlfriends for me are once in a blue moon type of deals, and I have to say, i'm a little afraid of letting this one go.

In regards as to what i'm telling you is relative to this article, I feel complete responsibilty to making a relationship with her happen and I don't think she could fulfill any responsiblity, seeing as though she is confined to her house and is unable to make decisions fully on her own, decisions like going out on a date with me so I can seal the deal right there. The only way I can ask her out is if I visit her at school, which i've done before, but school isn't exactly a romantic enviornment.

I'd much appreciate your opinion.

Warm regards,


David Riley's picture

Hey Nate,

You need to go out in the field and start talking to girls. This will keep you from thinking of her too often. Since is not possible for you two to have a relationship right now, I recommend practicing on other girls. You need to learn how to attract other women. Trust me when she sees you not giving her attention anymore, she'll seek you out. It happens all the time. I fade out of women's lives all the time, and then they come back on their own. In the meantime, I'm out in the field learning new ways to approach women. It's important to remember to always be out practicing your skills. This way you won't become rusty or needy. Neediness turns women off. When you master your game, girls will be attracted to you and will start chasing you.

Stay focused,

Just Dave

Nate's picture

Very helpful advice David. This really put my mind at ease. I definitely have not stopped reading up and applying the amazing advice here on Girls Chase. I'll have to admit, I am not able to be out in the field too often, but I try to make every oppurtunity I get count when I am out there.



rk's picture

hey chase
Only the Articles made by you contains real 100 % value. other peoples artcles meet contains only 15% values. buy and post real innovations of artcles. Please do not make this website likw unhealthy.

ldn's picture

This article reflects many instances where as I was left frustrated thinking: "It's very obvious she wants this. Why doesn't she do anything or help me finish it? I've already pushed the 80-90%, why can't she finish the rest?" Now looking back, it might have been my own inexperience at fault, missing numerous escalation opportunities before that.

Still, this article answers one of my biggest questions: Who should be responsible for making it happen? In most cases, me.

David Riley's picture

Hey ldn,

Yes in most cases if the guy wants something to happen with the girl, he is the who will be making all the moves to make something happen. Now when you start having more and more options with girl, you'll see them take initiative periodically. However, girls just ping you and expect you to figure out what they want. I've had girls reply to my Facebook statuses or Tweets just to get me to notice them. In their eyes, they're doing so much. They think I put myself out there for him, and it's his job to ask me out. Girls take the passive role in dating and seduction, they're waiting idle for a good guy to come around. Honestly, I rather be a guy who can ask out any girl he wants. Guys take the more active role and it's more rewarding. I'm constantly able to expand my dating options just by approaching new girls. It may seem like hard work in the short run. However when you get your skills down, it becomes so easy. The point is to constantly work hard and don't dread practice.

Stay focused,

Just Dave

Wes's picture

Hey Chase,

one of the main reasons why I'm very cautious with my persistence with women is because I've had instances that could leave anyone scarred for even attempting to break past resistance. I've had a couple of girls (who were going into auto-rejection) literally swat/smack my hand away if I tried to touch them. That shit struck a nerve with me. If a guy made an attempt to do something as rude and unnecessary as that, I'd knock him out. I don't get why its SO hard for a woman whose not interested to say:" I know it seems like I was interested before but now I'm starting to change my mind. I'd appreciate if you'd just STOP pursuing me."
I'd back off. That's as clear as it can get. Any vaguer and I'll still find some hint or some hope somewhere to keep going.

Instead, they play these petty mind games and completely pretend like everything that was just going on never happened. I don't know if they're just playing hard to get or what...
Anyway, I'm not going to let that be an excuse to stop my progress and I was wondering how I should deal with women treating me like this? That's unacceptable and it really offends me that the majority of women assume that the majority of men are rapists. As if I would continue to physically escalation even as they scream in pain...no, that's not me. Rape is wrong. I'm sure every other guy (who doesn't have extreme rape fetishes) who reads this site feels the same.

There seems to be a rise of feminism taking over the minds of girls in my age group and it makes improving really hard. I think one way to combat the whole feminist movement is to prove to them that we are clearly not rapists and they're being paranoid. (I understand that there are women who have had experiences with rape or molestation and they're scarred for life, but regardless I believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty. We in the West should all have that mindset, right? )
When any PUA says things like: "when she resists, she just doesn't feel comfortable enough or she's giving "token' resistance." Some crazy feminist can be passing by, read this, and jump to the conclusion that we as seducers would go as far as to rape a woman who isn't interested in us.

I just feel like with the rise of feminists, what we do is in danger. I fear a future where everything I say/open with and everything I use will all be common knowledge to every woman I talk to and she avoids giving me the time of day.
It would be the end (lol exaggerating) of the human race because men are no longer allowed to pursue women and its not like women would ever take the responsibility up for themselves.
They make all kinds of complaints about a "patriarchy" but offer no alternatives for how we're "supposed" to win them. How can anyone take them seriously? LOL

If I seem a little bitter in my comment, trust that I'm not. Its just a thought that occurs occasionally that I have to rationally think through. Surely, there will always be women who will accept the advances of men. They want us just as much as we want them. I just want this "gender war' to end resulting in both sides understanding each other.

Again, the question I want answered is what to do about disrespectful women? Specifically, If a women is getting violent with you and its clear that you're no threat. (obviously we can't hit them. lol ) Surely, we shouldn't let them walk all over us like that? We'd lose all respect.


David Riley's picture

Hey Wes,

I want to share some articles with you on dealing with girls in auto rejection.



Now, one of the things I want to highlight in your comment is about pulling. Girls will often go into auto rejection when you either teased too much or you haven't moved the interaction forward with them. If you've been talking to a girl for 15 minutes and the conversation starts to fade, make a move. Otherwise the atmosphere will get awkward and it's time for her to move on. She'll be thinking that you don't want her. As a result, she'll be annoyed that you're keeping her from talking to other guys. She'll see you as a nuisance and want you gone.

Another thing I will bring up is the aspect of touching. Women will not be receptive to your touch if you haven't gotten her familiar with your touch. She'll see it as weird and awkward if you keep touching her, if you randomly start doing it. What I mean is if you haven't done it during the whole interaction, she'll be wondering why you're doing it now. This makes the girl feel very uncomfortable and uneasy. As a result she will not want you touching her. It's also important to touch her in the proper places. You want to avoid romantic touching or sexual caressing until you guys are alone. Asking to see her nails is completely different. The reason is that's just innocent. This is where compliance is going to be your friend, women hate to me man handled by strangers.

Here's an article that goes more in depth on touching.


Take care,

Just Dave

Too's picture

I stumbled on this site after a bad break up I had with my girlfriend last year. I've been reading and a lot of the content made sense including some things I would do accidentaly but I hardly got time to implement. I recently moved to a different city and I hit the club scene weekly making cold approaches. For the first month it didnt seem to go anywhere but I'd come back and read some more. Then I recently landed this cute girl and managed to take her to bed. Then it became too easy all of a sudden. I've slept with 2 girls in the past 3 weeks and I was a virgin before this. I also have a date with a different girl pending. Couldn't have made it without you Chase. Cheers, I look forward to getting your book.

David Riley's picture

Hey Too,

glad to hear about your success with women and I wish you all the best going forward.

Take care,

Just Dave

Kris1001's picture

Hey Chase,

Love the article, man. I think this article underscores a lot of why we do what we have to do. Other articles often tell us what to do and how, but this one went into the why pretty well. Good stuff.

I have a question though. How much would you say women value their friends' views of them and that sort of thing over a sexy man? I'm talking about Western women. For example, let's say you ask to move a girl and she says "Sure, but for a little bit because I have to get back with my friends." How much, more or less, do woman value their friends' opinions of them and them talking to sexy men, over how much a girl wants to have sex with a sexy man? Or even how much do they value needing to be in their friends' company over a sexy man's?

I know it's hard to say, but more or less what would you say? And what factors determine this? If there's much to be said about this, maybe this could be a new article? Haha, just a thought.

Look forward to hearing from you!

David Riley's picture

Hey Kris,

I'll let Chase and the other writers know about this topic.

I did find some helpful articles relating to cock blocking involving this topic that I'll give you for right now.


Personal thoughts:
Women are very social and respect the opinion of their friends very much because she sees them everyday. Now I've had women's friends in the past hook me up with their friends. It's personally all in the way you handle her friends. Now if you're extremely success and outcome independent she will respect your opinion more. Once a woman has been sleeping with you, her friends become irrelevant for a time. The more you keep her friends from butting in your business is important. In the long run the sexy men's opinion means more to the woman. In the short term the woman's friends opinion is more important. The reason for that is because she hasn't slept with him yet. She also doesn't want to be viewed as too easy or a slut. She may want to sleep with you very much, but if you can't isolate her just grab a number for now. Girls rarely catch shit for giving their numbers out to guys because anything rarely comes from it.

Women desire to have sex with a sexy man a lot. They love the idea of meeting that guy who just blows them away. A sexy man knows how to lead a woman and a interaction. When a woman says she needs to get back to her friends it's a time constraint. She's saying I'll give you five minutes to see where this goes. A lot of guys try to win her over and she's unimpressed. A sexy man will make her explain what sets her apart from other women. She will become so intrigued with him that' shell forget about her other friends. She'll be off making out with him or fucking him in the bathroom before you know it.

Take care,

Just Dave

Black Mystery's picture

Hey chase, I was just going through net and found something interesting about our topic thought to share it with you;)

Black Mystery

David Riley's picture

Hey Mystery,

Good find, and essentially it does come down to the "just right" portion when interacting with women. Give her too much or too little and she's out the door.

Just Dave

cwongucd's picture

Dear Chase,

Another great post, everything is spot on ! I find this sentence enlightening and MOST spot on though:

"For instance, my view is that, in a relationship, saying, “I love you,” or working to progress the relationship to the next level, or asking for marriage, or anything along those lines – that’s the woman’s responsibility." <--- This sentence reminds me of your "Should You Pay For a Date" article because again it is contradictory to the main stream advice.

You know that in the mainstream society men always need to get a several thousand dollars ring and then spend TONS of mental energy into how to make a special/creative proposal? YUCK!!!!!!! After I read your book and your articles..... I finally noticed by investing SO MUCH $$$ (several thousands on the f**king ring) and mental energy on her: WE MEN will become more attached, NOT the women we are going to marry. In addition, this definitely violates the Law of Least Efforts.

My question is the following:

1) Does that mean we shouldn't buy her a ring when she push for marriage? If yes, please let me know because the god damn ring will at least cost several thousand dollars, LOTS of $$$...........(T_T)
2) Does that mean we men shouldnt create a special/creative /unique proposal like the mainstream society taught men? What's your opinion, Chase?
3) If I don't buy her a ring nor create a unique proposal, would that hurt my attainability to her ? If she end up into Auto rejection?

One interesting thing.....Letting her push for marriage seems GOOD because u can ask her to sign a prenup....if u are the one who buy the diamond ring then proposal and THEN you ask her to sign a prenup later that would be harder because u are the one who ask for marriage. Garrrrrr

C. Wong

David Riley's picture

Hey Wong,

Here's a link to a post Chase made in the forums on this very topic.


Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase,

Been following your site for a while now and I think it's time I ask a question. Most of your articles, ones I have came across primarily focus on self-improvement and getting girls for the quick purpose of intimacy. Is the approach different if I were interesting in finding a longest era relationship kinda gal? U seem to almost advice against the sort of guy she would be interested in dating,....

Also, I'm currently in grad school and really like one of my classmates. Problem is she has been in a relationship for this guy for the last several months but is someone who she knew for the past few years. Friends w/ benefits sorta thing. But know dating. But he's in a diff state and they visit each other. In fact she's planning on interning at that state for the upcoming summer. I'm close to her and I always play the push/pull theory quiet well. My questions is what kind of approach can I adopt that would not make me fall in the friend zone whole simultaneously increase her attraction for me? The other day, she was stressed studying for finals so I asked her to take a break and come with me. Took her to a nice store and both got mani/Padi lol. I was thinking of massage but thought might be too sexual I'm connotation.

Appreciate your help


David Riley's picture

Hey Tim,

Here's a helpful article Chase has written when women have other men in their life.


Also, I recommend what to do when a girl has a boyfriend. (I know he's not her boyfriend but it's worth the read anyway. Especially, considering since she's thinking of interning in his state. That's a pretty huge investment on her part.)


Also how to steal a girl from under her boyfriend's nose


Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

do you think that women in general are attracted to the same kinds of guys? i think you mentioned attainability somewhere; is that the reason lower value women seem to be attracted to lower value men whereas higher value women by society's standards wouldn't be attracted to these guys? you say women want lovers and not providers but if a guys sleeping with tons of only low value women, is he considered valuable?

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

The status of the women you're sleeping with only matters in a social circle type of status. See the article here.


If the guy who's use to getting low caliber girls meet a hot chick, he isn't fazed. Because even if she blows him off, he can get another girl. This actually works out for because he has the mentality of "this girl doesn't matter but let's see where this goes." The high caliber girl may even be intrigue and may sleep with him. She may not get in a relationship with this guy. The reason that she'll sleep with him is because he'll do. Sometimes women settle for Mr. Right Now instead of Mr. Right. Keep in mind a lover is just a loser with sex appeal. If the woman feels you'll make a good long term partner, she'll slow game you to death.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Hi chase,

While I think that women do want a man who is high value and hard to get, I get the feeling that some women want to be chased and generally be the apple of that man's eye. The kinds that are somewhat scared or so comfortable being single that they really need a push to fall for a guy. Maybe you could refer to these women as hard to get themselves or women who appreciate relationships and think they are meaningful. Whereas other women don't need a man who is totally into her and didn't Chase her. I'm almost tempted to say that people who aren't easy are saavier and sharper than first clueless people and therefore need more emotional experiences due to their more complex emotions. What is your take?

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

You would be surprised how women will say they want this, and date a completely different guy. Keep in mind women are more controlled by their emotions. The problem with that is they are constantly changing and can be very unpredictable. Now women love attention and they do receive that. However, they love the challenge! They don't want the game to end too soon, they want a guy that can intrigue them. When they do find a guy who can go above and beyond all that, they're head over heels in love. It can be head scratching for some guys because they listen too closely to what women claim rather than what they do.

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Chase can you explain the difference between how a girl acts who is just friendly with you because she sees you as no challenge,and a girl who is enthusiastic about meeting you ?
When I think of enthusiastic an image in my mind pops in of a girl jumping for joy as soon as she meets you (which im sure is an extreme case of enthusiasm),so how subtle do you mean?

Working on attainability and getting all the kinks sorted out.

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase. Thanks for this article, and really thank you for all of your work. One thing I'm curious about is screening out other girls and sometimes other people in general who have victim mentalities. Do you have any tips for either screening others with this mentality, or in how to deal with others stuck in a victim mentality? I'm still a beginner myself in learning seduction and even improving my social skills, and I'm stuck wondering why I'm always surrounded by others with victim mentalities, and the girls that I get into relationships with have a strong victim mentality that I find out about somewhere down the line. I know improving myself and sharpening my skills will overtime help me overcome the issues that come up in future situations, but right now I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here. Thank you in advance, and I appreciate you taking your time to read this!

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

Here's a article on avoiding cluster b women.


I'll let Chase and the other authors know about an article on avoiding guys with victim mentality.

Take care,

Just Dave

Wolf's picture

Hey Chase, so basically my game for when I'm in the club is to dance with the girl then spit my game while dancing. I don't do the thing you say in the article, when the guy just dances the night away, I use it as my opener. I pull them into me and they start grinding on me. I feel this is an easy way to tell if a girl is attracted or not without wasting your time with conversation that might not end up anywhere. This also breaks the touch barrier and let's me talk in her ear better.

So I get dances and I get rejected, but what I never realized was maybe I could persist her to dance with me if she says no. I usually chalk it up and leave it alone once I get a no. Then I thought about all of the times I've read a girl saying no to when you try to sleep with them or take them home. They say no then they agree.

1. How do I persist in a smooth way to get into a dance with a girl? (Her grinding on my dick type dancing) how many times should I persist? Whats a good way to persist?

I've noticed something else. When it comes to dancing with really pretty girls or vip girls it's extremely difficult to get a dance from them or any play. I can tell when a girls vip because they look older and are much more attractive than the other girls. I don't go to vip because all they do is sit there and talk to one another in a small room. It's pretty much different social circles drinking talking and sitting down. I see the girls sometimes on the regular part of the club and can tell immediately that their vip girls.

Every time I try to dance with them they reject me. I thought it was because they didn't want to dance, but once I grabbed a girl to dance, she told me no, then a few seconds later some guy comes and dances with her. So I knew it had to be my fundamentals.

I have no idea on why this keeps happening or how to beat it.

2. How do I get some damn compliance from these vip girls? How can I get them to give me some play and stop getting rejected? Those are the girls I want the most in the club. They just don't give me any type of play. What can I do?

Thanks my dawg!

David Riley's picture

Hey Wolf,

I'll pass this onto Chase on the other writers!

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

I don't like small talks. I always feel they're so stupid. Maybe its because I don't like to state the obvious like oh the weather is cool today indeed. I know by the way yku handle small talks you can be perceived as socially savvy or or not callibrated in this respect. Can you actually work your charms without having to engage in those meaningless banters? In both seduction and professional situations? I also find folks who are good at small talks phoney like oh aunt you look so good! But you know i havent seen her for 15 years so i actually think oh my god she's grown old.

Is it possible to cheat yourself/make/force to like a girl you actually don't that much only to take your emotipns and thoughts from the one you naturally keep thinking about?

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

Here are some helpful article links for you.



This way you can just avoid small talk and go direct. You never want to hide your intentions. You can even go deeper by asking her connection building questions. You want to really get to know here. This is where being in the moment comes really in handy.

Take care,

Just Dave

V's picture

Chase! I don't see race when it comes to attractiveness. But a lot of girls care about race a lot. I don't want to be defined by my race in a bad way, I either want to be just pure sexy they don't think about race or they're in love with my race.

I want to sleep with all races.

I hear you have black friends who pick up different race girls very well. I'd like to know more about them.

1. How can I get these girls to look past my race and just see pure sexiness. Im even talking about girls who never would think to date a black guy.

2. What do your black friends do to get different races of women?
Can you also tell me, what they wear, how they act, their hairstyle?

3. What are good black guy hairstyles? I have 360 waves (pretty much a dark haircut with curls that look like waves all over your head). Tell me if you think that's a good style.

I read along time ago that you said you forget about things a lot. Now im sure they're not important, I guess it's like rejections, or whatever.

I have a strong memory and I want to be forgetful. I don't mean dumb and forget stuff I need to know or forget the good memories I have. My example is say if you go on a double date and that's all, a few weeks later your friend brings up the girl you went on a date with, and all you ask is "who?". It's so irrelevant to you you forgot, I want to be just like that. I want to be the person people keep trying to remember things they think is important that I could care less about. I guess I feel I'll have more status since I really don't care about what this other person thinks is a big deal.

1. I want to live in the moment and not the past, what can I do about this problem?
Thank you!!!!

David Riley's picture

Hey V,

Here is an helpful article to get you started.


I will let Chase and the authors know about a more in depth article.

Take care,

Just Dave

petroni's picture

I meet a girl online. We meet, she's cool nice good looking intelligent etc. We talk, a lot in common and you can tell she's high energy. We part ways. We both mention going out next time. I come home still riding the buzz of the date. two days later I do a little experiment. I set up a fake nickname and profile. I put up an ad. She writes! Understandably I cant meet her so I try to shut her down stating between the lines Im not a good companion, sex partner or boyfriend material. She keeps writing and pushing for a meet!
I text her as me from the original mailbox (the one she met) and shes cool but you can tell the buzz is off.

It happened to me a couple of times. Looks to me that any imagination of a guy is better than myself...

I don't understand the logic behind such actions.

Last year I arranged a meet with a girl I knew in real. But I also knew she had a profile which was not very active. She didnt know I 'd found her profile. We set up a meet and we both knew we were going to have sex. Chase the moment we set up the exact date of the meet she activated her profile like crazy! Why? What motivated her?

I generally f**k the online things and progress with them but I already have my vibe totally off.

Im more like "ok this one is nice lets see how things will turn out with her" before I start hitting online like crazy again.

My gut feeling here tells me a range of reasons from her protecting herself not to become too engaged with to simply the fact I didnt make the cut and she goes for me but knows she can do much better. I dont know.

You find a car you really like, do you really want to go round the city testing others? So it looks to me I get eliminated.


David Riley's picture

Hey Petro,

Women love their options, and they love the thrill of the chase. Don't take it personal when women talk to other guys or want to meet with them. Women are always looking for something better, not guaranteed. Men on the other hand will go after something guaranteed as to not miss out. This is because the average man doesn't have as many options as the average woman. The only way to up your odds is to not get too attached like the way women do. Honestly, whenever I go out in the field unless I bed a girl or she's extremely interested, I write her off. I give her a solid two full tries before I'm off to the next one. The reason being is she has some many more guys chasing after her. I don't feel like waiting in her line, so I go try out the next girl and the next girl. Sooner or later the previous girl will come back wondering where you went, she sees you have options. From there she becomes determined to win you over. You can do what you want with her from there.

Take care,

Just Dave

J $'s picture

Hey chase, I went on a website that's a forum about a lot of different things. I happen to find out mostly females are on this site. In the dating section, there was a topic of who pays for the first date and another topic of, when does a female start paying for dates.
On the first topic, I kid you not, it was basically 30-2 going in the favor for a guy paying for the first date. On the second topic, the girls said that they never pay for dates, even well into the relationship, except when it's the boyfriends birthday or whatever holiday. All of the answers were basically only on a special occasion for the boyfriend and the guy pays for every single date they go on, the girls say they never pay and even their friends pay. They say if they go dutch, they're never going to see the guy again or they are friend zoned because friends go dutch. Girls say they get furious at the dudes that don't pay and find another that will.

These girls are 90 % black, the rest I don't know. After reading that I feel like you really do have to pay to get some pussy. Then I keep thinking about this site and I always think to myself that even if I do pay I have to keep on paying and compete with these other suckers that take her out.

I feel mostly black women are like this. I feel a white women wouldn't get too angry about it, maybe a little upset. But black girls are different and feel they deserve everything from my experience dating them.

1. Are these girls putting up fronts for the forums about all the stuff about never paying for dates and never sleeping with guys that don't pay?

2. Are black girls different than any other race you had when you took them on dates chase?

3. How do I get a girl to go dutch or pay for us both?

4. It is true that if a guy doesn't pay the girls can find someone else that will pay. How do you beat that? How do you not pay and not have a girl try to find someone else that will?

5. In a relationship, how do you make who pays for dates even, instead of the guy paying 95% all of the time?

6. How do you handle it when a girl bugs out on you if you don't pay?

Thanks Chase

J $'s picture

I went back on the site and this dude was saying how a girl should not feel entitled to a free meal. As you would expect he got bashed from all females expect 2 and all males except for 2. So the female side was 50-2 and the males were 7-2. They all kept saying how you should pay if you ask and $20 shouldn't mean anything to you. They said if you don't pay you are cheap and will never get a chance with them or any girl because girls have way more options than men do and if she won't get you to pay she'll get another who would take her out on a date and spend a 100 on her with no problem. I really think black girls think like this more than white girls do(might be very wrong because it is basically a black women forum). The chicks say they want to date white guys because spending money is nothing to them and black guys complain a lot. They say you should go all out and impress the girl. And if you're not paying you're broke.

Reading all of this is starting to make me want to give in because I don't want to lose a chick over a cheap meal if that's all she wants to give it up to me. Then my rational mind
Comes back and tell me not to because if she was gonna fuck you, she wouldn't get angry over a free meal and that im competing with all of the other suckers out there.

1. Do you think that sometimes you do have to pay for the date to sleep with the girl?

2. I don't want to lose sleeping with a girl over a cheap meal. What if the girl thinks of the cheap meal as an excuse for her to sleep with you that she tells herself. What do you Think About that?

3. What are dates that you recommend guys pay for? Coffee and ice cream dates? Or do you not want us to pay for all dates no matter how cheap?

4. I fear I might be losing girls I don't pay dinner for. Is that true that I could lose lays because of this?

5. How do I never pay for a date again?

I know when you look at both comments it's a lot of questions, but I had to ask these separate questions because this was a new argument they were having. I'd extremely appreciate it if you can answer these for me.

Thanks Chase

David Riley's picture

Hey J$,

Paying for pussy is a big "no no" especially in the black community, I come from it. When you pay for a woman you are saying you are trying to impress her. From there you are chasing her. Only simps and suckers will believe that black women want them to pay for a date. I grew up knowing a lot of drug dealers and thugs, and women bought them gifts and bought them dinner. They had a "I don't give a shit" mentality. They weren't going to take some entitled queen out on a traditional dinner date. He was going for something more exciting and thrilling. He would take girls out around the town or invite them over his house. He would get the girl to share things about herself to impress him. He wouldn't be impressed he would treat her like she wasn't even worth a second look. These women ate it up, they loved the challenge. Sure he might take her out for an ice cream or so, but when it came to dinner she was paying.

She wanted to spoil this man and take care of him. She didn't want him to go anywhere else. He would tell girls from the very beginning, "You not getting shit from me." These girls were surprised, "How can he be so bold, he know he wants me." He wanted her but he didn't have to have her. It wasn't necessary. Yes, many black women put up a front to act like they want a man to pay. Of they course they want a man to pay, but he doesn't always pay. A sucker will pay for pussy, but a player will hit it for free. Take a girl to a park or a walk around town. A first date is just an excuse to get to know each other. When you take a woman to a big fancy dinner you are communicating you want a lady. She knows that a lady doesn't put out on the first date. From there good luck trying to avoid her.

Just some tips,

Just Dave

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