Girls Chase Podcast Interviews Ep. 11: Chase Amante | Girls Chase

Girls Chase Podcast Interviews Ep. 11: Chase Amante

In this podcast – the first of a two-parter – Varoon and I talk relationships: starting them, setting expectations properly, converting girls from new lays to regular partners, and the different relationship structures you can set up with women.

A selection of topics Varoon and I discuss:

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.


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jv879's picture

Hey Chase,

Big fan here. Two years ago you sent me a great email after I thanked you for your article about getting over depression when I was in Japan, and I have been a subscriber since. Now, however, I have gotten myself into a situation where I am obsessing over a girl I never meant to obsess over. I rarely ask for help, but this time it is imperative that I humbly reach out. I feel I should give some background information before I get to the point.

I picked up a couple girls during my stay in Japan. Then I came back and the reverse culture shock was a bit much for me. I fell into a year of yet more depression, drinking, and smoking pot.

Needless to say, I didn't have much female attention during that time. I have since owned up to my misery, realizing it was my fault, and now I am clean and sober and taking charge of my life (things are so good, in fact, that I am quitting my meds). My point is, as good as things are going, I realize I now have the vulnerability of becoming too easily attached to casual sexual relationships because of my long dry spell without woman (which also resulted in accumulating loneliness) as you discussed in this podcast.

I recently have been going out and getting several numbers. Three of them ended up as dates. One of them resulted in a lay.

Having just read your article on 8 Friends with Benefits Rules You Must Obey, I have to admit that I mucked this up big time. I have violated a huge chunk of those rules.

Now, I have slept with this girl three times now. I met her at a Japanese-English Conversation meetup and ended up taking her home that night (she is Japanese). We had sex at my apartment, though she was only half into it. She said after "I don't know why I'm here," as she lay with me, and "I should go home tonight." I finally asked her, "do you have a boyfriend?" She said yes. I explained to her that whatever is going on between her boyfriend and her is none of my business. I said that if you didn't have empty spaces in your relationship, and if you were 100% content with him, you wouldn't be here. I said that doesn't make you a bad person, and it's quite common. You seem like a good person to me.

After that, she completely changed. She became very close to me and relaxed completely, and our next round of sex was very different. She spent the night at my place after.

We met and had sex again a few days later. No, I did not wait a week. And yes, she spent the night with me again. I even took her out to dinner. No, I didn't pay for anything when we first hung out, but my reasoning was, now that we have had sex, now that she is "mine", I need to keep her happy so I can continue to have sex with her.

Two days ago (Saturday), we were at the Japanese-English Conversation exchange again (it's every Saturday). She made a point to sit next to me. In order to protect her reputation, I didn't give her much attention and focused my conversation mostly on others throughout the night. I knew she used to go to this same meetup with her boyfriend, and others likely new she was taken. I also wanted to remain non-boyfriend material with my aloofness.

But then, after the meetup, as usual (though this is only my second time at this meetup), we all went to the bar to hang out and talk more. About half the meetup usually goes each week. While we were walking there, a guy I had been befriending made a point to walk next to her and talk to her a lot. He had asked me earlier on that night whether or not I had taken her home the last time, to which I had silently given a nonchalant smile and a shrug my shoulders, while slowly letting my attention and gaze drift elsewhere. I wanted to appear humble and vague, but maybe he took it as an embarrassed/disappointed "no"? Anyway, as he walked next to her and talked her up, I thought, "That's OK, he clearly doesn't have my fundamentals or strategy, and what's more, she already had sex with ME. Why would she ditch me for some other guy of lesser value, especially right in front of me? Besides, I am a lone wolf, an alpha male. I don't care."

However, looking back, I realize that by this time I had already begun to feel possessive and insecure. When we sat down, I made sure to tell her to pull up a chair near me, to make sure she was still investing in me. I talked to her once in a while, but I mostly focused on others in the group, barely even looking at her.

Eventually, the guy from before came and sat down with her. He talked to her for a long time. He showed her stuff on his phone. He went and got a beer, and then she got a beer a bit later too. They toasted. They laughed a lot. She laughed a lot. She touched him on his shoulder a lot. She rested her hand on his chair near his shoulder. She started downing her beer (or two) at an alarming rate, letting herself get quite drunk. I said nothing, and remained cool to the best of my abilities.

But as much as I thought I was above jealousy, I received a huge slap in the face that night. In fact, I was completely taken off guard and thoroughly stunned by how completely overwhelmed I was by feelings of jealousy and hurt, as the minutes ticked by, her engagement with him never faltering.

Eventually, though I didn't move, and maybe only looked slightly disturbed, inside I began to truly panic. While they were in mid conversation, I tapped her on the shoulder, and whispered in her ear so only she could hear: "Let's go back to my apartment soon." She nodded and said OK, then continued to converse with the other guy. I soon learned via text that (for roommate reasons) taking her home at the last second like that (which I wasn't planning to do) wasn't going to fly. So, as her conversation with this other guy was dying and they began to fall silent (guess he didn't understand the concept of asking a girl home on a high point) I tapped her on the shoulder and whispered in her ear again, "my place isn't going to work out, but let me take you home, so you don't have to take the bus all that way." She said she didn't mind taking the bus, but I said I don't mind, and she again said OK. My intention here, of course, was to regain my alpha male status, having her invest in me and leave the place with me while simultaneously showing this guy that she is MINE, and in spite of all he tried to do, in the end, she is leaving with ME.

After the second whisper, he had (maybe sensing he was interrupting something between us he didn't know existed) excused himself and moved over to talk to some of the other guys. I slowly, powerfully got up with "my girl", made a point to tell him good bye and that it's time for me to head out (to make sure he saw her leaving with me), and left without a glance back, visibly putting my arm around her momentarily as we neared the exit for good measure.

As we left, she told me that she's pretty drunk. She was stumbling a bit. I played it as cool as I could, but the truth is I was so hurt and jealous inside, I could barely find my car. After we got in the car, we chilled for a bit, still parked. She said, "are you ok?" I didn't beat around the bush. I told her right away that I was jealous. I told her how surprised I was by this feeling, and that maybe I like her more than I thought. I calmly explained that it bothered me that she was flirting with the other guy. "No no! I wasn't flirting! I was just talking to him! He's just a friend!" (looked like flirting to me) I said, "you don't think you would have gone home with him had he asked?" "No!" she replied. "I don't like him in that way." I said, "but you were drunk, weren't you? Do you think if he asked you home while you were drunk, you would have said yes, because of the alcohol?" She said, "well, maybe."

I ended up taking her to her apartment that night and having sex with her for the third time. This time I actually gave her a small orgasm, which is more than I can say for the other times (I have been diligently practicing your technique, Chase!). I went home that same night, but she did put the sticker with my name on it that came off my jacket (it was for the convesation meet-up), on her wall, which I'm sure is a bad sign.

Anyway, I have been obsessing over this nonstop, to a point where it is taking over my life. I haven't been this obsessive in a long time. I am usually very busy and diligent with my goals. The past couple days I haven't even showered, and have been falling behind on everything. Most of my time has been spent here on Girl's Chase reading every article I can find that might tell me what to do next and put my mind at ease. However, no article is custom-tailored to my unique situation.

The rest of my time has been spent running through the situation over and over in my mind. I am trying to keep myself busy, but it is becoming very difficult. For the record, I have been diagnosed with OCD, as well as anxiety, depression, and ADHD, and Asperger's syndrome in general from a very young age.

One more thing... I don't want some girl to come in the way of my goals, and that means I don't want to stop going to this conversation meet-up. I HAVE to continue getting good at Japanese, no matter what. However, I will be with her there, and that guy will be there too.

From my research on this site, I have already found some of the things I have done wrong in the first place. Can you tell me what else I should have done differently? I am NOT willing to let depression come back again, I have been making too many incredible daily strides and am in the process of building too many amazing daily habits to fail and start over again for the 233th time.

Which leads me to my other question: what do I do from here on out, to rectify the situation, guard my emotions, and heal my wounds? What mindset should I adapt, and what actions should I take?

Finally, how do I fix my relationship with this girl and make sure that expectations and outcomes are in sync? I don't want to "rest on my laurels" and make her my girlfriend, because A) She's going back to Japan in a month and a half, and B) Though I may be (against my better judgement) starting to love her, she doesn't meet all the criteria for my ideal, dream long-term relationship, even if I was willing to be monogamous in the FIRST PLACE. I know deep down I should meet other girls. But is that really all there is too it?

Thank you so much for reading, and I hope you reply. Being needy isn't something I have felt in a long time, but I feel trapped and unsure where else to turn.


SilverTongue's picture

Hey jv879,

I'm currently in a situation that is extremely similar to what you just posted with some girl at my school. Long story short, we had sex 3-4 times the first week after the first time (took like 2 months, but I wasn't even into her all that much.. One random horny night I made a move) 3 weeks later I see her hanging out with other guys at my school and because of a loneliness bout that I'm currently in and a bit of a break from meeting girls and having a regular hookup set up with multiple girls, the jealousy is there... And I know exactly what you mean about insane feelings. It makes you want to go home and just forget it all.

After listening to Chase's podcast, two things stuck out to me, which in turn, I hope help you.
1. Neediness (getting way to invested and doing weird things because of your dry spell)
2. Scarcity (the fact that you're even shitting where you eat, in my opinion, should be a red flag for where your mind is at)

Tonight I had a chat with a friend and realized that I need to have more things going on in my life and absolutely must focus on getting out and meeting more girls because of the goal I made: to get better with girls in general and get to 3-4 friends with benefit girls.

Remind yourself over and over again that you have bigger fish to fry.

When reading her responses to your questions it sounded like she was just playing with your mind because you were in such a low guarded place. What made me think this? "Well, maybe"

Tests exist. You and I are failing them right now. Own up to it, grow from it, move on and never forget for in 5 years you're going to be laughing from your babe-filled-jacuzzi, if you stick to growing.

I wish you the best,



Chase Amante's picture


Might sound like a tough situation, but there’s a lot of good here.

First, I’m not clear on the boyfriend – if she actually still is with this guy or what the deal is. From the sound of it, I wonder if she just said “Yes” because you asked. As you know, Japanese girls are normally quite reserved, and she may have just been agreeing to keep the ambiguity up.

The jealousy plotline she ran with the other guy sounds like a response to your ignoring her / your nonchalance in the meeting. This is what girls do (and guys do it back to girls)… if you’re a girl, and you like someone, and he’s ignoring you, you talk to the other guys and suddenly now YOUR guy is getting all possessive. Works wonders. And then if he says anything about jealousy you can just pass it off as you merely being friendly.

While you were diving through the articles, if you found this one:

Making a Girl Jealous: Dos and Don'ts

… that’s what she was doing here.

Perhaps not actively (it seems the guy sought her out, rather than vice versa), but she saw the opportunity and took advantage of it. And it worked.

Sounds like she got fairly attached – I wouldn’t worry about that. If she’s leaving in a little while, it could be nice to have a short, passionate romance, then bid her farewell. She isn’t staying, so there’s no need to worry too much about growing too attached… you may be sad when she goes, but it’ll be a pleasant short relationship.

For a next time around, well, it’s tough to avoid jealousy if you don’t have too many other options yet, and tougher still if you see the girl socially and she can run jealousy plotlines in front of you / you have to figure out how to interact with her in public social circle situations. So, you can go into it knowing, “Okay, I’m likely to experience some jealousy, so I’ve just got to fight it by making myself think about other girls, and NOT this girl,” or you can actively look for women you aren’t likely to run into jealousy-creating factors with (i.e., try to meet girls you won’t run into socially; don’t get into the habit of talking about other people you’re seeing and she’s seeing [at least not until you’ve got a rotation / more abundance going], etc.).

In this case though, I’d just go in, enjoy spending a little time with her, and not be too worried about how it plays out. View it as a good test run for a mini-relationship, an opportunity to deal with the stress and uncertainty that comes with a novel social circle secret lover situation, and just accept that however torn up you may get temporarily by whatever happens with it, it’ll be over soon enough and you’ll be back to being a full-on bachelor again – it offers nothing but plusses for your learning curve, no matter how it ends up.


JasonCC's picture

This is not the place to ask for advice about a girl. Go to the forums for that. Furthermore, the verbose prose you wrote mean nil. You're obsessing about a girl. The only solution is to meet more girls. Read the article on abundance mentality.

JasonCC's picture

Fantastic podcast, Chase. I've been waiting for this one for a while!

EvanK's picture

Hey Chase,

Wonderful job, man. I'm glad to see you doing the podcast. There are some things I'd like to get your take on that you mention in this podcast:

1 - 43:05 - Her being aloof. You bring up a great point about why a woman might be aloof. If you move give a girl an amazing sexual time the first time you hang out with her and then she starts becoming aloof, I can see how her personal life might be a reason why. But how does one proceed in texting if this happens? You get a text from her and she responds, and then let's say you respond to hang out again but there's no response. And then you text her a few days later and yet no response. Do you recommend guys text a week or so later or just wait for her to text back? I'm unsure on where chasing beings and persistence ends when you text an aloof girl.

My understanding is that chasing is expressed in the tone and wording of the text, like you say at 45:18 in this podcast... i.e.: telling her she's amazing and that you should go on a trip with her. But persistence is keeping the cool sexy vibe and pinging her back occasionally. Am I right about this? And can I persistence become chasing if one texts to too many unresponsive texts?

2 - 63:18 - Winning things. Can you elaborate on what kind of things to let women win (besides letting her sleep over) and how to set this up?

3 - While you didn't mention this in the podcast, I occasionally go on dates with women who tell me they get up early the next day or I get a vibe they aren't ones to sleep with me on the first night. You've mentioned in an article about how some girls have a three date rule before sex, and I've seen this a lot. That said, if you get the vibe that you probabaly won't have sex the first night, what do you think of changing that first date into an informative date and calling it an early night. I do this now, and I've notice that it gets the girl texting me back. I think it's because I'm not defeated by her in trying to bed her. And instead, I'm the one ending the night early because I tell her I have to wake up early or something like that. What's your take on doing this?

4 - Finally, if possible please expand on the second and third date in the next podcast.

Great topics covered in this podcast. I'm looking forward to the next one.


Chase Amante's picture


Whenever texting isn’t working, and *especially* if you have a decent connection with a girl (which, if you’ve slept together, it’s safe to assume you do), call her:

Tactics Tuesdays: Calling Her When Texts Don’t Pan Out

There’s no harm in just calling a girl and saying, “Hey, what’s going on? You dropped off the map!” It’s more natural than trying to act like some guy she hardly knows, pinging her with a text every 3 or 4 days. If you care about someone and they’re not responding, you just call – more natural. And often works great.

Your examples on chasing/persistence in text sound right. And yes, if you’re persisting too much and getting nothing back for your efforts, at some point it becomes chasing. However, if you’re mixing phone calls in there, you give yourself a longer runway before that “He’s chasing me” effect sets in.

Re: winning things… here are a few examples:

  • She wants to come over more often
  • She wants to come over spontaneously (can she come over in an hour, etc.)
  • She wants you to take a small trip together
  • She wants you to join her for a holiday
  • She wants your permission to tell her friends/coworkers about you
  • She wants you to go see a movie with her
  • She wants to go to a restaurnat with you
  • She wants to introduce you to her friends
  • She wants to take you to a party
  • She wants you to meet her coworkers
  • She wants you to meet her family members
  • She wants to leave stuff at your place
  • She wants you to leave stuff at her place
  • She wants to spend multiple consecutive days with you (e.g., Friday-Sunday)

All of those count as her winning stuff and securing advancement in the relationship.

Re: sensing a date won’t pan out and turning it informational / ending it early… I felt like intuitively this would be a good play, and played around with doing it for a while sometime back, but I could never get it to work. When I’d meet up with these girls for a second date, it’d always be a little off. I was never sure if the problem was hers (i.e., she could sense I wanted sex, but had to put it off) or if it was mine (i.e., I was already sour on her after having to postpone on Date #1, and she was picking up on it and I was creating attainability problems for myself).

I still feel like it’s something that SHOULD work, but it just didn’t work out for me when I tried it, though whether for technical reasons or psychological reasons I couldn’t tell you.

Re: second and third date… this one’s all recorded (has been for a month, actually – I need to get it to Patrick, our sound guy); can’t recall if we covered second/third dates on there or not. We might have. It was certainly a long-enough podcast, in any event…!


JJ's picture

So, I have my good days when I don't think at all about the ex. I have countless suitors at my disposal all the time, i relish the variety & being free, single, commitment free. I'm after all only 25 & don't want to settle down until 36-38, and as a new year begins I always push that age back last year it was 34-36 not anymore. Then there are days when I see the new formal relationship he is in, the fiancé b/c they're engaged now always posts photos of them up, he never does even to announce their engagement, anyway it felt terrible when she shared that news and yet another photo like a pressure on my chest. I now he's ready to settle down and she is offering him what I refused. I just don't know why i still feel hurt. I don't love him like I used to anymore when we were together 2 years ago, but I still care deeply about him even if we are not on speaking terms any longer. I just want to continue enjoying tons of men and not think of him like an ex anymore more rather an old estranged friend. I've never cared about the others the way I have him to me they're just there for me to blow off steam, I don't care who they're with at the end of the day. Any advice on how I could perhaps get over those residual feelings I actually am happy for him even if I think she is boring and not his type at all. I would like to be able to speak to him like an old friend one day after all we have a ton of friends spread out over the U.S. & Mexico we share even if we never see each other anymore we haven't since we separated which is a huge favor to me. I couldn't stand seeing him in person again at least for the time being. He divides his time between Cancun & Dallas now which is great since I've been to both places, but don't like either and will never go back around those places. I'm even more glad, grateful in fact that he has not been back and doesn't plan to come visit California & Baja anytime in the near future I don't want him or her here anywhere near me the Pacific is mine he can keep the Gulf.

JJ's picture

So my question was very unclear, sorry I ramble on as usual. So is it worth it or possible to revert back to a platonic relationship after a romantic relationship? That's one area I'm inexperienced with emotional aspects always have been my weak point. We have so many friends in common & they sort of pressure me to consider trying to mend the friendship with him in the future. Of course, they know now is not the right time, but perhaps years down the line or maybe we're better off remaining uncommunicated indefinitely. Although, I admit, if anyone had to forgive anyone it's him I was a bad girlfriend.

Chase Amante's picture


Yes… and no.

If you’re highly attracted to your ex, it’s difficult to keep things platonic. There will always be that deep attraction there. And in my mind, it’s primarily the man’s job to keep it from re-escalating.

I can tell you personally, whenever I’ve met up with exes on allegedly platonic terms, it invariably turns into them trying to maneuver us into bed, and I’ve seen the same thing happen to many of my male friends, too – they meet an ex, she tries to get them in bed again.

Of course, pretty common for exes to get back together, so certainly there are plenty of times the man and woman both are willing, and then they’re back to being with each other again. And I’m sure there are plenty of situations where the guy desperately wants the woman back and she’s not having it, but I don’t have much personal experience with that, nor have I had friends deal with that that I can think of.

As for getting over him, can you temporarily block/remove him on social media? Out of sight, out of mind. I’ve had a few exes get married, and while I’m mostly relieved (“Oh, thank God, I didn’t ruin her… she was able to find someone else!”), there’s that pang of possessiveness I think almost everyone deals with to some extent or other too (“Huh? MY girl got married?”). The funny thing is how irrational these emotions seem to be; I’ve had several married women tell me straight up that it still hurt when they saw an old beau of theirs get married, even though they were already married themselves, and to men they liked better / were sexier / they had stronger relationships with. There doesn’t seem to be any cure for that other than simply coming to terms with the new reality (X individual is now married), and moving on.

Ricardus has an article on getting over exes that may be useful here, too:

Get Over Your Ex: 13 Steps to (Emotional) Freedom


Bboy100's picture

Hey Chase,

Let's assume we somehow end up in a longer courtship with a women. Obviously this is not ideal, but it could (and in fact recently did) happen to me. Would you recommend keeping the same relationship rules in place (i.e. keep it a FB relationship at the start, and dial down the amount of things we do together)? Or do longer courtships automatically leave us stuck in a strict provider zone wherein we would have to treat it like a an LTR from the start?

Additionally, you mentioned not letting her spend the night at your place if you're looking for an FB relationship. Couldn't kicking her about right after she's ehem...given herself to you cause attainability problems and ultimately lead to auto-rejection?

Finally, if we are looking for an LTR, should it always be the girl who initiates "the talk?" or should we calibrate on a case by case basis as you discussed at the end of the podcast in regards to "giving her progress"?

Thanks for another great podcast,

Chase Amante's picture


Depends on the tone and tenor of the courtship. If it really had a “this thing is pretty serious” kind of feel to it, like you really were auditioning for a serious relationship, you can’t verily shift into super casual after.

I haven’t had an extended courtship since perhaps 2006, but in that case I was able to treat the relationship as a kind of FWB relationship out of the gates and still made it work. Based on my (limited) experience with protracted courtships, it would seem like so long as you didn’t make it feel like you were going for something serious, you ought to be okay.

As for kicking her out at night, if you’re worried about this, the best thing to do is to try to get to sex earlier in the day, so you can still spend 3 or 4 hours together with her after sex and then send her home after this.

If you can’t, still try to spend an hour or two with her after, then tell her you had an amazing time but now you must get some shut eye, and SHE must go. Then call her a cab if she needs it or let her use Uber or however she plans to get home.


Austin's picture

Listened, to this really enjoying chase's outlook and tone towards dating and relationships, so looking for more i listened to Blackdragon's interview.

Anyone else notice that Chase seems a little more open to peoples lifestyles where as Blackdragon seems a little militaristic with his rules.

I am conflicted on this conclusion because i'm trying to validate my own choices and outlook towards monogamy and relationships, which conflicts me further because i AM unhappy with the stasis of my life this moment, more on my career, much less my love life. But i am wondering if all things in life are linked to a persons core character.

So im wondering what im doing wrong and how i can change myself for the better, so basically it confuses me to hear Blackdragons rules that im not applying to my own life and im wondering if i can write him off as not for me, or if i have to write myself off as right now im failing.

Where as with Chase i get a really good vibe that while hes experienced he knows everyone's different and there are many different ways to live an awesome life.

Chase Amante's picture


I’d simply point out that that’s conscious/practiced.

Everybody’s opinionated – I’ve yet to meet someone with expertise in a field who doesn’t come equipped with strong opinions one way or the other.

However, if you’re in a teacher role, you do better to resist foisting your opinions onto anyone who’s learning from you, because people have very different opinions and different paths they want to take their lives down, and as soon as you start pushing your opinions on others too much and closing off paths to them, you make your advice bothersome/alienating to some folks, and misleading to others.

I’ve had enough diverse friends running diverse sorts of game (and finding success diverse ways in various other fields) that I’ve become convinced that anything can work if you just figure out the right way to do it. Which makes blanket dismissals intellectually dishonest, in my opinion.

Also, from the instructor role, not closing off paths to guys allows you to avoid having to defend indefensible positions. E.g., if I claim, “All men must do X,” I’ll swiftly have to deal with a bunch of guys saying, “That’s not true, I do Y and it works great,” or, “But I don’t want to do X!” or “I know a guy who does X and he totally sucks.” Instead of move on with the lesson, now I’ve got to defend why X is superior to Y and Z, and in truth, it probably isn’t always, because different people make different things work differently. Even if X is usually better, most of the time, for most guys, it’s still better to qualify it, as well as to discuss when Y and Z can still be used.


Seppuku's picture

Hey Austin,

I really enjoy reading both GirlsChase and BlackDragon blog. There is good in both.

Regarding how to actually proceed to seduce a girl, what BlackDragon advocates is not so different from GirlsChase. For ways to meet women, BD specializes in online dating, GC is more a generalist with strong emphasis on cold approach. But for the process from first date to bed, they say more or less the same thing.

BD's particularity is its strong focus on open relationships, and relationship management. There is a lot of valuable things to learn there in my opinion, even if you don't adopt BD's "militaristic" position on this. To apply this in real life, however, is definitely *advanced level*, because you need first to get to a position of abundance.

I would say it's much better for you to start with GirlsChase, what Chase and writers teach is very open and have plenty of room for you to develop your own particular style, that fits you. Keep BlackDragon as a valuable advanced read.


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