Being a Challenge to Women (& REALLY Turning Them On) | Girls Chase

Being a Challenge to Women (& REALLY Turning Them On)

Back on the article about gym pickup, The Tool (one of our forum members as well) commented in asking about ways he could meet girls in the gym as a member of the staff, without overstepping professional boundaries:

It was 8 am and this girl wanted to Tan and she had another hour before she could tan (24 hour law) so she begged and i told her to wait another hour, she stayed in the locker room and came out an hour later, she asked If she could tan yet, I told her 5 more minutes and asked her "so what brings you to the gym this early on a saturday? working out before work or to flirt with the guy at the front desk? She said Haha I am not. I said "you totally are and now your lieing about it...jeeze." she said haha I guess I am. anyway jist of it I deepdived a bit and got her digits saying your a cool girl we should get some coffee sometime. she said sure and baddabing.

Anyway as a staff member things like this are risky for I can lose my job if it was ever found out or I made it awkward for a girl. So would you advise that those guys who are in fact the staff not try to pick up girls at their own gym?

My advice to The Tool was to use barriers to get these girls chasing him; it was, in effect, this: be a challenge to women.

being a challenge to women

In the article excerpt from my eBook entitled "How to Challenge Women," I discussed why you want to be challenging women, how it helps you, and what the potential risks are if you take it too far. And I offered a few strategies from the book on not being too little of a challenge.

But what about really being a challenge to women? Is it possible to use conversation and communication to set things up so that women are pursuing you, regardless of whether they were or weren't at first?

Sure, it's absolutely possible.

And, it's a heck of a lot easier than you might think.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.


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studentofthegame's picture

Hi chase I'm in high school and I now have a detailed process on getting girls, moving faster,getting num bers etc.but when it comes to sex I have a problem for one I don't have an apartment where can take the girl to and I live with my parents and I am confused on how can bed women fast being in this pickle.I don't want a case where they might walk in on me or something which could seriously hurt my Morale.

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Student,

It's very possible to still take girls to bed even if you can't take them to bed where you live.

See this article for some ideas on how to handle your logistics outside of bringing girls back to your folks' place:

Book Excerpts: Get Girls in Bed (Without a Bed)


Jack's picture

Studentofthegame, I am in high school as well. Would you mind contacting me? Would mean a lot! I have been looking to perfect a process as I am I high school to take into account girls not willing to have sex so soon and social issues as well. Thanks get back to me!

Balla's picture

Hey chase just have a few questions
1.How can I make my mind clear and stop planning things out with expectations? The cat gets my tounge when I approach and I get upset when things dont go my way with a girl. How do I let go and go with the flow?
2.I've been applying what you wrote from the get taken seriously article, but guess I haven't gotten it down all the way because girls still play games. Should I be more aggressive with them and more demanding?
3. Don't all girls think that you want sex and if they didnt wouldn't you be in the friend zone?
4. Will your programs be free when you join the membership?


Chase Amante's picture

Hey Balla,

Getting your mind to clear is something you can achieve by working on "mindfulness;" that is, training your inner eye to turn its sight onto your thoughts, and out onto the present world around you. By focusing your thoughts solely on what's happening right now in this given moment (e.g., exactly what thoughts you're feeling, emotions you're experiencing, and what's happening in the environment around you this instant), you turn off the conscious element of the prediction engine of your brain and simply experience what's happening around you.

Hard to say on the girls playing games. If these are still the same girls from the past, yeah, they're just going to keep doing that. It's very, very difficult to turn things around with women who already have set opinions of you.

On sex - no, not all women assume you want sex! This is a common misconception of a lot of new guys - they think they should play things neutrally to disabuse women of the notion that they're just after sex. But if a man isn't exuding sex, women will assume he isn't turned on or interested.

As for programs, they'll be the same price they always were!


Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase,

While i was reading this article i started to wonder if you have any notes on flight attendant game and what kind of barriers can you use on a plane if any

Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

Flight attendants can be a little difficult to meet on-plane, simply because they're in work mode and they're accustomed to men hitting on them there anyway.

I've picked up flight attendants in nightclubs, but I haven't really sat and tried to get a method down for it on a plane simply because of the logistical difficulty. I've had friends pick up flight attendants on their ways out of planes though, setting up dates and grabbing numbers while waiting for the rest of the passengers to deplane. My TOP recommendation would be to find out where the flight attendants hang out in your city (there's typically one or two bars that flight personnel gather at) and focus on meeting them there, simply to give yourself more time to work and a more social setting to work in.

If you're set on meeting attendants on planes, you'll need to come up with some sort of pattern interrupt. I'd probably use a direct opener so she knows exactly what you're about and then escalate things quickly with pointed, personal questions on her if she's receptive to the opener. Then most likely find out how much time she has in the city you're landing in, or if she ever has layovers there. Swap cells and plan to meet.


Anonymous's picture

I have several girls interested in me primarily because of my flaws, and they have told me to my face that I am imperfectly perfect. I am interested in this Byronic concept. Do you try to adapt byronic traits? And can you do a post on them?
Great article btw

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Anon,

Yeah, it's a neat topic. I have adopted Byron-esque qualities, yes.

We had another commenter on here asking for a post on vulnerabilities, and I think this would tie in nicely on that. So I'll probably look to do a post that ties in attractive vulnerabilities and Byronic flaws, since they're largely one and the same.


Anonymous's picture

I will be moving out of the country after I graduate from college in 5 months and I recently told that to girl that I have been dating. She responded by starting to cry, and then saying she now wanted to move slow, that she didn't want to get too attached emotionally, but that she would be there with me all the way until I went to the airport.I was a little taken back, didn't expect her to say that of all things, so I mustered up a "look into my eyes" , so I just looked into her eyes with a deep gaze and I came closer to her face and we started to kiss. Did that for a good 5 minutes, with a little whispering in the middle, and parted ways for the evening. We both live with our parents, so moving her to my place, which would be ideal for such a conversation, was not possible. I am definitely not in the friend zone, but I've now disqualified myself for the boyfriend role.

PROBLEM: she's shy (at least when sober... have avoided party dates like the second coming of the bubonic plague thanks to GirlsChase), and I've tried to escalate beyond touching/kissing, but no go. So I'm not really in the lover role, am I?

She always shys away or giggles, killing the tension when I try to sexually escelate, whether it be in a park or in my car. I don't want to work too hard, crossing that fine line where aggressive becomes unwanted/creepy touching. Wouldn't be surprised if this girl has only slept with 1 or 2 different guys before. Comes from a somewhat religious family... and so on.

I seem to be in a fourth zone: the guy who is exactly like a boyfriend, super high attraction level, quite romantic, but a little safe and predictable, all lacking the high important title of boyfriend. We've been moving slow, but not on my wishes, on hers. She keeps citing not wanting emotional attachment, but she's obviously attached to me a great deal, then we just act like boyfriend and girlfriend without the titles. I feel like the only way to progress with this girl sexually would be to have a active relationship- otherwise, for whatever reason, she's not giving into sex. Just my reading.

All the meanwhile, I like her a lot, but I've started to make myself more scarse, not care as much, and see other girls because I'm not locking myself into that. Abundance mentality for life.

Thoughts on this "fourth zone", as I'm starting to call it with my buddies? Or how to salvage things with this girl, if it's not a lost cause?

Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

I actually have an old article on this phenomenon - what you and your buddies call the "fourth zone," I call being the "early boyfriend." Here's the article:

The Early Boyfriend: Why It's a Bad Idea

Unfortunately, there's not much you can do to get around that other than start disconnecting your value from her. You can also have a sit down and talk with her, and simply be honest with her, telling her, "Look, I really like you. A LOT. But we do everything a boyfriend and girlfriend do together except actually make love, and it's destroying me. I can't be in a sexless relationship anymore... I want to be with you, but you don't want to be with me. I understand that, but I can't do it anymore. I can't spend time with you anymore; it's simply too painful."

At that point, she's going to decide: either that, okay, she DOES want to sleep with you... or, no, she still doesn't want to, and she'll say goodbye.

You can't be mean, can't be bitter, you've got to be sad and you've got to let her know why and let her know it's no fault of hers. Then cut her off if she won't be with you.

Sometimes even if she won't sleep with you at first, being away from you will make her realize that she actually DOES want to be around you enough that she's willing to sleep with you to not lose you / retain you as her boyfriend and lover. Or she may decide she's better off without you.

Either way, you won't be stuck in limbo anymore - either she'll be yours, or you'll be free.


Maxz's picture

Nice gem here Chase on being a challenge.

I had a question for you. I recently texted a girl I wanted to sleep with a message saying I was thinking of her after seeing her at a function. Does that show the guy is no challenge if he is sending the girl a thinking of you message? Will love a reply on this one. Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Hi Maxz,

It depends on how she views your status relative to hers. If she views you as roughly equivalent to her in value and status, then even if she's going nuts over you, showing her this much affection when she isn't your lover yet assures her that she has too much sway over you, and immediately ups the stakes for you to become her lover. Basically, it takes whatever amount of work you'd need to do to bed her and double or triples it. Still possible, but it'll be a lot more grueling.

There's another alternative, however: if you're so much higher in value than her that she'd normally consider you far out of her league and the very notion of you thinking of her makes her laugh (i.e., she considers it playful teasing), you're okay. Think of how a girl would feel if she got a, "Hey, I was just thinking about you," message from a rock star after he saw her. She'd laugh, knowing that rock star sleeps with a lot of girls and that he's sending her some playful sexual banter (the intimation here is, because he's such a sexual guy, he's thinking of her sexually).

Essentially, if she knows that there is NO WAY on Earth that you're thinking about her longingly and romantically, you're fine. If she thinks that's even the slightest possibility though, it's very damaging to your cause, and you'll want to not do it with future girls.


Anonymous's picture

Chase, my question is regarding style of dress and the perception they give off.

Take for example the cliche bad boy look. Tight black shirt, biker jacket, black boots, spiked hair, ect... You get the point.

Next take the "James Bond" look. Parted hair, wearing nice things such as sweater vest and Blazers with nice black shoes.

Will dressing in the James Bond style make me look too "safe" and make girls automatically slot me into a nice guy category?

I'm sure that a mans attitude/personality counts more. For example, if the bad boy acts like a little girl most girls will find him unattractive. If the James Bond looking guy is, well... like James Bond, then women will find him attractive.

However, do you think I'm making it harder on myself by dressing more "safe" than dressing like a bad boy?

Thanks Chase!

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Anon,

That's a real question of clothes vs. vibe.

i.e., James Bond has a very bad boy-ish vibe, so he can get away with being in a suit. Put a guy who's not quite as rakish in a suit, and he just looks polished and nice.

You can think of clothes as at first helping to compensate for a lack of a vibe - e.g., the guy who's a little too nice still, so he throws on a leather jacket to give him some edge.

Later, when your vibe is killer, you can use them to actually take edge OFF, further enhancing the vibe. e.g., James Bond in a suit instead of a leather jacket. The nice clothes stand out more because they're adorning a man who so obviously exudes power and confidence.

So, I'd say if your vibe needs some accentuation still, err on the side of badder clothing. Once your vibe is VERY bad boy, start moving toward nicer clothes to offset that and get contrast going on.


The Tool's picture

Excellent read, Your advice on my question on the gym post has been monumental. It has immensially upped my game because of the challenges ive been implamenting. People definately should take this one to heart it is in fact one of the larget game changers. Becuase of the challenge, it makes women invest which allows you to gauge interest.

in some cases it is better to recieve more than to give ;)

Cheers, The Tool

Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Tool,

Extremely cool to hear you've been using challenges and barriers and reaping some dividends from them. They're strong stuff once you're already generating interest with women.

You're very right - they can help you tak investing to the next level, and serve as a solid gauge to interest as well. Strong voodoo, this.


Vaughn 's picture

Hello Chase I haven't seen you in a few days. I wanted to just ask one question but I read the comments so I wanted to ask a few more.
My first one was my own which is, Chase it is so hard for me to get sex and to get these girls to comply, I dont know what else to say man it's just driving me crazy that I can't get one girl I like to sleep with after learning all your stuff. What am I doing wrong chase, what do I have to do to get rid of this barrier from me getting sex? I was just thinking of telling them I want sex and stop being indirect. Tell me what I have to do.

Second one is what I got from Balla's comment response from you. How do you change girls opinions about you and see you as a guy they want to sleep with? I'm mostly talking about girls who know your very sexual but you havent slept with.

Third one was from maxz, when he wrote about thinking of a girl, my question is fantasizing about girls. I'm not putting them on a pedestal but whenever I feel I'm close to getting a girl or I'm talking to a girl I like i think of having a romantic time with them I think about having sex with them even kids with them. Im not thinking of one girl like this, I'm thinking of every girl that's attractive to me like this. Its like your article about cant stop thinking about her where you say get more girls but my problem is when i get a new girl i think about her then i go to another and think about her and on and on. How can i stop this cycle. Thank you!!!!

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Vaughn,

I have an inkling that your third point is contributing to your first two.

When a guy lets his thoughts run rampant and he starts getting fantasies going on about girls, this tends to make him hesitant and start treating girls with kid gloves. He won't move fast enough, won't demand investment from girls, and won't treat them the way a man with lots of options will. He effectively gives off loud, clear signals to women that he isn't a guy with man options, and kills a lot of his attraction.

Even if you don't have much of a sexual vibe down yet, if you're meeting new women often and following a process that revolves around moving girls and keeping things progressing forward in your interactions, you should be getting dates and taking girls home at least occasionally. Are you meeting 30 to 40 new women a week at least and improving your approach with them as you are?

On the mental thing, you've really just got to train yourself not to think about women you have any intentions of dating. The instant you fantasize about a girl as being something important to you your goose is cooked, and you'll start acting funny / hesitant / unmanly around her. You've absolutely got to shift your thoughts off girls you like and onto something else, which is where having projects and passions you're working on come into play. It's no coincidence men with great passions also do well with women - they have a lot more to take up their thoughts, freeing them from overvaluing individual women.


Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase I'm the type of the guy who creates attraction on the first sight.But then when I go on the dates looks like women losses interest or I would get stucked with texting.! Now I started reading your articles maybe a month ago and helped a lot especially with texting and setting up dates now It's really easy and almost every girl responds to text messages that I copied:) from you.! Also before I would never go for the sex on the first date I guess I'm typicall nice guy who is trying to change and deep diving I see a lot of improvements.But I get stuck when it comes to second date. I didn't manage yet to get sex on the first date. Here is the scenario in last 2 weeks I had 2 dates with 2 different girls.Anyways with second one we were kissing and everything but no sex she didn't want to go to my place.! Now for the 2nd date she responds to msg but says like she is busy we can see eachother only for short making excuses,if I want to see her to come where she lives which is 30min drive.I get stuck on 2nd date how to escalate Chase.Should I use more phone calls request more investment and how to react when she requests investment from me. Like to come where she lives and we can have short lunch.Thanks.!

Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

Wonderful to hear you're seeing some progress, man. Sounds like you've made some great headway from the days when women were losing interest quickly!

Unfortunately with the girl in question in this comment, it looks like you ran into an escalation window - see her:

Escalation Windows

Essentially, once you start kissing a girl, you've opened the escalation window to sex, and much of the time if you don't have sex relatively shortly thereafter (within a few hours, and sometimes much less... typically, it needs to be sometime before the mood is broken), the window closes, the girl backward rationalizes that she wasn't that interested in you and that's why the two of you didn't get together, and things are over. That's why it's better not to kiss until you have a girl alone with you.

There's not much to say here except save kissing until you're alone with her for future girls, and keep getting out there and meeting new girls. You'll get it down, don't worry.


M's picture

Hi Chase,

I seem to have gotten some of my understanding of this reversed.

On deep diving: on the one hand, you're showing interest in her and in getting to know her well, which seems to raise your attainability, and on the other hand, you're "grilling" her and not letting her get away with shallow or unsatisfactory answers, which seems to lower your attainability (as you stated in this article). I guess the grilling part "wins" if you do it properly, so that's why you put it in the decreasing attainability section.

On being chill, cool, and undemanding: doesn't this make you appear that you're not trying too hard to get her, so it would decrease your attainability? I guess the "undemanding" part is what you meant to be important here, which would put her at ease and increase your attainability.

One other question: could you please write a post sometime on how to be non-judgmental and more constructive and encouraging? Many times I find myself thinking during a conversation, "Hmm, your career path/school/etc. sounds pretty dismal...why are you so unambitious? Not really sure what I can say that would be both encouraging and true." The conversation of course shuts down pretty fast after that. But I know that there IS something both encouraging and true I could say, and if I didn't have that thought in the way, I would probably be able to relate to the person and think to say it.


Chase Amante's picture

Hey M,

Yes, you're exactly right: once you're into deep diving, you're asking the girl to qualify and explain herself to you, which she won't do if she's close to auto-rejection. Instead she'll just ignore this, and you'll get negative compliance. Deep diving does bring an attainability boost, but only after the girl shares about herself and sees that you understand and relate, and she typically won't do this if she's too close to auto-rejection.You're basically letting things cool off and calm down until she's ready for deep diving - and once you can get that going, you're set.

The post on being non-judgmental - yes, that'd be a good one. I've been meaning to write one for sometime, actually - just for good measure, I've added it to the list (which I just realized I didn't have it on before).


Anonymous's picture

Why do women want to work to get a man...if they have so much choice with men why make the conscious decision to choose to put in more work to get someone rather than not having to work as hard(assuming a dominant sexy man wants to make life relatively easy for her)? Maybe I'm lazy, but this is certainly not the path of least resistance.

Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

For exactly the same reason that men don't fall in love with the women who throw themselves at them (calling these girls "sluts" and treating them disrespectfully and disdainfully), but DO fall in love with the one girl they cannot get (check out the very long comments section at the end of "Can't Stop Thinking About Her? Here's Why You Need to Meet More Girls").

The human brain is wired to view things that are difficult to get as more valuable, because they typically are. A man who challenges women is one who isn't needy (which means he gets girls), is comfortable with women (which means he gets girls), and prompts them to begin investing in him (which signals to them that he must be valuable for them to invest as they are).

Women select mates based on hard-coded genetic value. Essentially, they want men who are good with women, because men who are good with women will give them sons who are good with women, and these sons will give them the best chance of spreading their genetic legacy far and wide. This measure reduces in importance as they age and begin looking to settle down; at that point, they become more willing to "settle;" that is, to accept men who aren't quite as challenging (or desirable). That's the age they begin to declare that they're "tired of the games" (that they loved so much when they were younger).

That's the long answer. The short answer is, men who are a challenge to the right extent excite, thrill, tantalize, and scintillate women into action in ways that men who are not a challenge simply do not.

It's like the difference between playing a video game that's really, really easy to beat, and one that's just challenging enough that you can almost beat it but keep losing at the last moment. You REALLY want to beat that latter one... but the former one, well... it's kind of a bore.


Anonymous's picture

Are pretty and in-demand women really afraid of rejection? I mean if every time they go out they have potential suitors trying to get into their pants don’t they overtime develop a sense of superiority? I know I would naturally if I had hundreds of women coming up to me all the time.

Anyway, I’ve tried dating such women, and a pattern I recognized that I haven’t devised a solution to yet is that they usually take the “poker face” approach to dating. In the beginning, they give no compliments other than one or two, and certainly they give no indication that they care about you other than by using non-verbals to hint that they might care. Some real CIA shit that seems to be designed to have me asking "Does she like me or not?" All the while deep-down they do feel strong emotions but they’d never say anything. It’s kinda like they withhold this info in a power-play attempt because they fear that my ego would get inflated by their strong affections for me.

This kinda behavior confuses me, and I’m not certain as to how to act with such women. And make them chase. But I want to LEARN! I assume attraction and proceed accordingly, but I've found that they usually never ever return the compliments unless directly asked "what do you think about me." I've even had one girl say she doesn't inflate guys' egos to which I responded I wasn't fishing for a compliment, for all I know you could think my head is too big for my body, it's just a question. She still took this question as a sign of insecurity and well we know how that goes. Now it's not that I am needy and want compliments from women, but it's my belief that if you have gone on couple dates and you really like someone and that you want to keep around, you’d treat them special and say and do things you wouldn't do for everyone else. Clearly you hold your own beliefs and stay assertive, but strive to keep things zen and interesting. During the dating phase shouldn't you act in a way that would entice the other person and have them say "hmm, if I keep them around, I'd definitely get some good treatment!" instead of obfuscating yourself and making them wonder "do they like me?"

Yet in my experience, these poker-face women don’t engage in charming behavior until you've won them over. No special treatment, minimal amounts of compliments, obfuscation of their intentions and desire, never calling or texting first, nearly no investment at all. Why? And I am not the type of guy that chases. Nor do I have much of a desire to inspire someone like this to chase me. Although it would be kinda satisfying if I could. I usually give up and move on to something more interesting.

Recently however, in my quest to become a better seducer, instead of giving up right away, I've persisted and tried chase framing, kissing, touching, sexy eye contact, deep-diving, being more of a challenge etc, and while I've gotten decent results sexually on occasion, I've rarely ever had progress in getting the poker face to treat me well emotionally, without me having to call them out on it. I feel like I shouldn't have to tell or educate a woman on how to treat me well, that they should know. But it appears like the poker-face doesn't think too much about how I feel by her treatment (or lack thereof), rather instead she thinks more about how I make HER feel. I can't confirm, but it's my hypothesis. A relationship of any-kind is a two-way street and both parties must get emotional satisfaction otherwise what's the point.

Here in this article you suggest a solution to my problems is to inspire women to chase... instead of calling them out on their behavior. But if a girl really likes you, and knows how to treat a man well, shouldn't this inspiration to treat you like a king (once you have the characteristics she seeks) occur almost spontaneously? There has to be an approach to dealing with the “poker-face” to make them chase. Any recommendations?

Ash's picture

I'm in the same boat. I've met a girl recently that doesn't chase, she even tries to take control of texts etc. eg. Me: "When's good for you." Her: "I'll let you know if that's cool?"
Yet she'll still text after meeting saying had a great time and we should maybe do it again.

With this girl I'm left thinking, is she or isn't she interested... She won't give me the usual signs of interest, on the outside it seems she has no interest, doesn't flirt, doesn't laugh at everything I say etc, but, she will do things when I give her commands; try this on, slide down here a little. She will compliment and even ask when I'm free, but then she can rarely meet up because she is so busy.

She is very nonchalant in her messages when she asks to meet up ("was seeing if you still wanted to meet, cool if not") I don't know if she's not interested or if she's afraid of getting hurt. By the way we met when she approached me, and she was very forward, but after that night, before I even met her or text, POKER FACE, since then, POKER FACE.

In one of your articles you suggest sticking to the 80 20 rule and focus on the 20% of girls that are showing you interest but these days I don't find those girls as interesting, I like girls like this one that isn't obvious to me, more of a challenge. The thing is I don't know whether she is interested and how to get girls like that, is it just persistence in a non chasing type way?

I've tried to move things quickly, first time we were in underwear but she wouldn't go further because she said she wasn't like that. Second time we never got past making out and taking her top off.

Is there something else we should be doing with girls that have as the poster above says, POKER FACES

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Ash,

Sounds like this girl IS chasing, in her own subtle way. She's messaging you to meet up... that's a good sign, and that's chasing!

Sometimes you can accidentally chase when a girl's already chasing you, and it causes a total reversal of the chase dynamic where she's now running and you're now chasing. It happens. I usually write these girls off as girls I messed up with, take note of the lesson, and move on, though you can sometimes turn them around if you're so inclined (depends if it's worth it to you or not).

I think that's Ricardus's 80/20 you're referring to; mine would be something closer to "focus on the 20% of girls who are meeting up with you and doing what you tell or ask them to do!" (which is pretty much what Ricardus means too).

You might be having problems with this girl because the escalation failed, but it's not necessarily a death sentence... some of the time you can still land these girls.

I'd guess that this particular one is of a somewhat different variety than the one Anon was talking about (and I replied to below your post); it sounds more like she isn't overly flirty, but leads when she follows, only now she's being a bit evasive after mating was initiated but not completed.

She'll have to logically decide she wants you at this point, because now she knows what will happen. So however things proceed, they'll go according to her decision: yes, she wants sex with you, and will put herself in a position for it to happen, or no she does not, and she won't.

All you can do is try and get her out and see what her decision is. You can also try the failed mating attempt remedy I discussed in the article on second date strategies; that one can be challenging to pull off, but it's the highest percentage method when you've tried and failed to escalate things to intimacy.


Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

Here’s the problem with assuming that pretty girls must have a superiority complex.

Imagine that every time you go out, women hit on you. Only… it isn’t BEAUTIFUL women. It’s okay women. And ugly women. And fat women. And every now and again, women who are attractive ENOUGH.

Then one day, a BEAUTIFUL woman walks up to… this NEVER happens. Are you afraid she might reject you?

Of course. Because, while you have abundance, you do NOT have absolute abundance, and the case is the same for every woman out there.

I’ve never met a woman, ever, who was totally confident she could get an amazing, high quality man open to her dream relationship at the drop of a hat. It just doesn’t happen.

So what happens is, if you’re the kind of man that women actually get excited about, then yes, ABSOLUTELY, they begin to fear losing you, and fear rejection. The more attractive and exceptional you make yourself, the more rare you become for progressively more women, and the more you run into this.

On women giving you “poker faces”: I wouldn’t spend much time worrying about how women ought to treat you. Just assume that they are going to react to you however you make them feel. If they’re giving you a poker face, yes, exactly that – you haven’t won them over yet.

There are two solutions to this:

  1. Get better at winning them over
  2. Get your fundamentals so solid that they’re excited to meet you, and AUTOMATICALLY won over

Personally, I’ve always put more effort into the latter route than the former because, like you, I don’t like having to chase. I prefer entering interactions already on the advantage, rather than coming from behind.

The higher status / more beautiful / more emotionally validated a woman is in any given situation, the tighter your fundamentals need to be if you don’t want this kind of reception. There’s no shortcut to this; same as a girl dressed in sweat pants and a baggy t-shirt with sloppy hair and no makeup and a voice that sounds like she spent the last decade smoking two packs a day is going to get a different reception from you than a girl who looks exactly like her, except with sexy clothes, sexy hair, neatly-done makeup, and a voice like a silver bell, you with tighter fundamentals is going to get a warmer reception than you with looser ones.

It’s really just a function of how you stack up: how good is your style / fashion / posture / smile / eye contact / walk / edge / smoothness / approach / etc. Did you come in smoothly or did you stumble in? Did you pre-open? Did you have preselection or not? Are you talking too fast or nervous, or is the tempo of your voice just right and are you making ample use of pauses? Are you acting aloof to get her chasing if she’s acting aloof, and warm to reward her if she’s acting warm?

All these things and a thousand more come into play in influencing whether you get a “poker face” or not. I wish I could say, “Do this one thing, and you’ll stop getting it,” but this kind of reaction is really an overall reaction to the complete package you present at any given time.

So, the good news is, there are a thousand ways to tweak this.

And the bad news is, there are a thousand ways to tweak this.

Seek to improve a little bit every time you go out. Add another piece your arsenal. And gradually, with time, and with enough improvement, you’ll find you get this kind of reception less and less and less, and a warm / enthusiastic / excited reception less and less.

Almost forgot – there is ONE quick fix you can play around with to see if it’s this. Sometimes, YOU can be coming in too cold for women (and you may not realize it). Where this is the case, women will often automatically respond with coldness in kind. I was guilty of this for a long time; what it was was, I was trying to protect my ego by not “putting myself out there” until I knew a girl liked me. Unfortunately, by hiding behind a veil of coldness, I inspired that very same reception for myself in many of the more socially-attuned (that is to say, beautiful) women I met.

Once I recognized it and trained myself out of the habit and instead began acting passionate and warm and receptive instead of cold and walled off and dispassionate, this poker face reaction went way, way down.


Anonymous's picture

I wasn't trying to say that all of them have a superiority complex but some certainly do act that way... until you challenge them and show them that you don't think they're all that special...then they act like "oh shit, who is this guy not walking on eggshells around me?!" and they certainly do take note.

But at times it is possible that I may come across as being a bit too indirect. It really depends on the girl. With some girls, it's easy to display interest and they clearly know I'm interested and vice-versa, and with others it's like I display interest, maybe not overly directly but still in a way that I think is relatively obvious. e.g. Smiling, leaning in, chase framing, and even saying I like x,y,z about you, etc without coming on too thick and appearing needy. Even with this I've still gotten the occasional poker face. So maybe what I will do in the future is if I cannot break thru the poker face barrier, continue being warm and more overtly direct about my intentions (even though that kinda kills some intrigue) and just let her warm up to the very least I'll get some more data points on their reactions. I certainly won't give up on this...

Thanks for everything you do here man. It's certainly wonderful to understand the social dynamics of what's going on and being able to read btwn the lines... it makes things more certain and thus more confident.

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, it's so great we have the opportunity to have all of our questions answered on here!
Anyway, whilst your site has certainly helped me in approaching girls on public, at parties etc., I am yet to really get it on with any of the girls in my school (in my final high school year) because of being a little introverted and umm, strange for most of my time there! Basically, I can read that theres attraction, plus I've been told countless times I am considered one of the more attractive members of our year group, I've just been a little too shy to act on it. Now my shyness has gone outside of school, and I'm looking to engage girls in my school, I'm having trouble trying to change their old opinions.
At the moment I'm working on being more open, and using the eye contact tips you've talked about here and they're working a little. What else can I do to a girl who finds me attractive, but is a little apprehensive because of my low social status? I often find girls looking at me, then quickly looking away before I can open, what can I do for this? And finally, I sometimes find, more often at parties, a girl looking at me, looks away as I engage her and continues to talk to me without eye contact. This is very annoying, and I'd really like to know how to change it!
Thanks Chase, I know that as a rule of thumb it's best to just meet new girls but honestly, I see this as like a challenge or a goal that I have to fulfil. Te rejection in school can give your ego a knock!
Eagerly awaiting your advice,
Matt Ramsey

Chase Amante's picture

Hi Matt,

If a girl's apprehensive due to your status, the best thing you can do (provided you can do it) is meet her somewhere it's just the two of you where no one else will see her, get into a quick conversation that lets her see she's wrong about you, and then propose (confidently!) that the two of you meet up sometime (for food, for instance). Trade numbers. Then, just keep it on the down-low unless you begin dating and she chooses to let people know.

Basically, she needs to know that you're going to protect her status, because in a status-oriented environment like high school is, that's more important than anything other than a boyfriend she's absolutely nuts about.

You can also work on increasing your status - give yourself a status reboost by showing up one day in a revamped style, with a cool new haircut, and whether the initial wave of skepticism from people who think you're pretending - they'll get over it and accept that this is the new you, and then they'll start treating you very differently, assuming you are acting very differently. At that point, things get much easier. If they ask why the sudden change, you can simply say, "I'll be in college in 8 months. And I'm not going as the weird kid. So I want to start getting used to my new self now so that I'll have all the kinks worked out by the time I get there."

Girls not making eye contact with you while talking to you - that's very strange. Could just be they're very shy / not socially very well-adjusted. Try leading and geting investment and compliance from them and see how they respond.

Most of all... keep in mind it's still just high school, a weird / memorable / unnatural environment unlike any you've ever experienced before and any you'll ever experience again (well, unless you spend a lot of time on Facebook, that is). Enjoy it, but there's a lot more to come.


Anonymous's picture

Thanks Chase, great advice, added it all to my plan! (though i think i will leave out the haircut, maybe just change my posture or bulk up to revamp that style) I'm going to build up a little strategy to create the attractions and make them a little more intense whilst to cutting down the time I spend socialising in the cafeteria, in the library on study breaks etc.
However there's still one or two things I'm not sure about. Firstly, in the whole building social value thing, I'm not sure if I should try to increase it by being seen with girls by other girls in school and things. My plan is, as well as cutting back on my time spent in school social, to not give the girls I want (the ones no ones got yet) attention until I really make the move at something like a party (and I've figured out a great strategy for this too :/). However this will only work if I've become seen as a 'good catch' before.
So the idea to keep limited, intense interactions to create attraction (with all girls) but only be seen studying with, having coffee with, or walking around with the girls I don't want to create a hard to get kinda idea for the ones I am trying to get? Will they also subconsciously think 'wow matts talking girls more, maybe he's coming out of his shell', raising my value and having them more comfortable speaking to me at parties and the like?
This was incredibly difficult to write down haha, hard to explain! I hope you understand.
Thanks for replying, in great anticipation of your next reply!

Anonymous's picture

Hello Chase, there's this girl... haha she's not too bad, we go to the same high school together and we have afew lessons together, i havent talked to her much because when i do i expect to move fast and get her in bed ASAP as i do with most girls, thing is ive been doing some background research on why everyone of my pals one who is extreemly skilled with getting women couldnt get her! she's one of the most beautiful girls in school (according to my peers, to me she seems pretty average) and hasnt had a boyfriend for afew years, most of her friends say its because her last boyfriend hurt her so now she places a massive barrier on guys who get to close to her. is there a way around this? can a move just as fast with a girl who places alot of resistance? my social status as one of the most handsome guys normally gets me to persuade any girl. Valentines day is coming and before then i want to have signed the deal! can i still use Push-pull (aka the dragon slayer) to get this girl, or will i have to be indirect?

Second Question, can you move just as fast with someone you see everyday? or will she not feel the time constraint and rather decide to extend interactions

Last Question: if women percieve you as a player what should one do? i think it makes some more preservative women go into auto-rejection, is that true?

Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Anon,

The problem with ultra-conservative / closed off girls is that they can get their walls up to the point where they're rejecting out of hand almost every man they meet. If you have even the slightest hint of something they see as "threatening," you're out.

The best advice I have on getting around this one is tweaking your vibe to the point that you don't set off any "threat" alerts. See "Better Than Jerk" on that one.

As a player, you can get a lot of women, but there are some women who are completely closed off to the player because they see him as insincere, dangerous, scary, or manipulative. To get those girls, you need to move to the next level of being a "genuine guy." The genuine guy is still appealing to the same women the player appeals to, but he's also appealing to the women with walls up.

So long as you don't flip any of her "danger" switches, you can move quickly with her. You've got to be extremely smooth, though. Otherwise, if you're not quite there yet, the best way to land a girl like this is to get her comfortable over a series of dates, ideally held in quick succession. For instance, she may not be open to sleeping with you until Date #5, but there's nothing that says that Date #5 can't happen within 2 weeks of Date #1 if you schedule them well and keep up momentum on running through your dates.

Re: someone you see everyday, usually this is much harder, because the "risks" associated with a botched hook up are greater. e.g., if you're a total stranger, she can take a chance on hooking up with you fast because if it doesn't work out, well, she'll never see you and feel awkward, and no one else will ever know. But if she sees you everyday, she risks perpetual awkwardness, and she risks everyone else finding out.

The less anonymous you are, the slower you end up being able to move (typically).


Anonymous's picture

Hello Chase, another great article. But I have a question about attainability.

There is this girl I really love and she is also my good friend. She has been friend of mine since long ago but from 7-8 months ago, I am in love with her. We chat like everyday on facebook and i know I am desperate because I can't stay a day without talking to her. We don't meet much because she's busy with her work except on weekend. We though meet every morning since we go jogging together(there's another friend too).

I gave her too much attention that when we meet along with our other friends, our friends sometimes tease us and I think they know I love her. The problem here is she only thinks of me as a friend but I want her to be more than friend. My attainability with her is very low. Since she's my friend, she knows very much about me and to get out of friendzone I tried to be scarce but problem is we go jogging every morning. (We live not that far apart) I am jobless right now, im trying really hard to find job.

What should I do to for right attainability and how I am supposed to make her fall in love with me. Another problem is I am really bad at conversations with girls and I think she wants financial security which in my current situation, I can't provide.

Nowadays she isn't texting me as she used to because we used to text each other all the time and about all the things. She hardly texts me or only if there's important things. I think since she knew I'm in love with her, she's acting little different and we are not having as funny conversation as we used to.

Now please help me. How to get right attainability and how to get out of friendzone and make her love me. We both are 24 years old.

Ctown's picture

Hi Chase,
Great article. It's occurred to me that I'm often seen as the Clive. I've had two recent relationships sabotaged because the hot girls (8.5s) were "falling too hard" and "never liked anyone so much". Said it through tears too. One tried to rekindle the relationship after a few months of self improvement..

How does a person actually devalue themselves without doing chumpish things? I hate how I seem to always bring out insecurities in really beautiful women. It makes them not pursue (or very passively) but they always leave a door open for me to pursue them. I'd like to be pursued for once.

Anonymous's picture

If she sees me as being too easy through text, how do you go about being challenging again, do i ignore her, or try and get her investing in another way.

If i keep texting her to try and revert the situation am i not seen as investing too much still?

Anonymous's picture

The problem is that we think that our brilliant minds should always be in control. The truth is that we can't really control the mating game, which the chemical reaction we call love really is....

If you come across as the most eligible stud in the herd, you will get to mate with the most eligible girl even if her logic tells her that you are probably spreading your seeds all over the place.....

Leonardo's picture

Great article, Chase. I am a freshman in college and I just got out of a relationship that lasted most of my senior year of high school and that summer. I initially got her because I was a challenge and made her work by being (for lack of a better term) a total asshole. Then when we went off to college we tried to do the long distance thing , and it started to fall apart. This article really made me want to slap myself for not realizing what was going on sooner, that my attainability got way too high and she simply lost interest. Then, when she told me about having feelings for this guy she thought was an asshole, i tried to play the white knight card and that just killed it. Ah how I wish I would have found this article a few months ago..oh well, there's always next time, eh? Thanks again for a good read.


Anonymous's picture

There is a girl that I like a lot and I don't know what to say to her or text her i tried a couple of times but the result is just seen can you help me with that send me some texts or something like that

Leornado's picture

Hi Chase,

Great article!

What about the case when a girl is
I would think that she close to auto-rejection .
What is your opinion?

Thanks for replying,

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