(3) Journeyman

Giving girls “outs” during a seduction is essential to maintaining comfort and buy-in. But what’s the nuance – and what when your gut says “don’t do it?”

Hey guys and welcome back.

I have been discussing the importance of giving the girl you are interacting with some space. This means allowing her an exit route to increase her comfort level. By doing so, she feels more at ease, which can lead to her becoming more compliant and willing to follow your lead.

Last week, I discussed this concept and gave examples by applying it to different contexts, such as during the hooking, isolation, escalation, and extraction phases.

Today, I will sum up this theory and get more conceptual by refining it further. It is usually better to give your girl a chance to opt out. However, like anything within pickup and seduction, there are exceptions and details to consider. This does not mean there are no general rules to follow, but like any generalities, there are times you should deviate.

After all, seduction is a social science and, some would say, an art, and there is room for exceptions. This post will cover situations when the rule of giving her a chance to opt out does not apply and it is better to “lock her to you.”

But before I get into that, I’ll recap the theory of giving a girl space, providing more details. Then, I will discuss the scenarios in which this theory may not apply.

A simple way to quickly sexualize things with girls and open them up to kinky sex: show them the leash and collar in your place (or pics on your phone).

This post by Hector Papi Castillo originally appeared on our forum here.

Just spent a beautiful night with a beautiful girl.

We had some VERY kinky sex. First night lay (and first "date," actually). We met through social circle while out at a club. I was with a different girl that I'm banging (who is a friend of her friend), but I still got her Instagram I think afterwards while adding all the people I met (I don't think I directly asked her though; I just knew she would add me back and be responsive to messages).

Then I ended up seeing her at a different club (but now I wasn't with the other girl) and we flirted hard. Chatted a BUNCH over Instagram then had a dinner/movie date at my house. Banged within ~5 minutes of being in the house.

Anyways, I started going into details on the forum chat (which is dope; we should get that going hot. Conversation is more insightful than a post), and realized quickly something that I do a lot these days to help make seductions faster/more fun.

So I came to post about it.

Women did not use to sleep around so much or be so promiscuous. Except, well, the men of the past had this very complaint about the women of THEIR days!

So ur take is —- you don’t really think the average social media modern girls (19-30yo) bodycount is higher than pre social media era? I know nobody can be sure. But hard to imagine it’s not higher now imo

— Don ladder (@DonLadder) November 6, 2024

There is this meme that’s been going around for about 8,000 years now that women in the past didn’t use to have as much sex with guys as they do today, that previous generations were purer, and that only recently have women become a lot more promiscuous and started sleeping around with men more.

You can read about it in the complaints of ancient Greeks, Romans, and Arabs from 1,500 to 2,500 years ago.

The ancient Chinese 2,000 years ago were so upset about women acting sluttier than they had in the past that they wrote an entire moral guide for women on how to not act slutty and be a good wife entitled Biographies of Exemplary Women and used it in the moral instruction of girls and women for two millennium.

Jesus’s apostles marched all around the Mediterranean 2,000 years ago, inveighing against the promiscuity they found everywhere (too many verses to list), and the Hebrew Bible from hundreds or thousands of years earlier found promiscuity such a problem it had to add specific instructions telling the daughters of priests not to go whoring (Leviticus 21:9) and women to stop cheating on their husbands (Hebrews 13:4).

We don’t have records dealing with increasing promiscuity in the women from ancient Sumer 8,000 years ago (so far as I’m aware) but based on this complaint occurring in every other epoch it was almost certainly a complaint of the civilized men then too.

Jean-Jacques Rosseau, writing in France in the 18th Century, called female promiscuity a “threat to social order” and recommended that women be taught to focus on domesticity rather than intellectual pursuits, lest they run around sleeping with men everywhere and upend society.

Men are still complaining about this phenomenon today: the apparent continuously rising tide of sluttiness in the women of every passing generation.

Men have complained of this phenomenon so long in so many places that by now you’d expect there to be some kind of SLUT APOCALYPSE, with women going to bed with hundreds of men before they even leave their teens.

But instead, the median number of lifetime sex partners for an American woman in the 21st Century is not hundreds nor thousands, but 3.

Yet why does it seem always, at all times and places, that women were purer in the past?

Women initiate 69% of divorces. Among the most empowered (college-educated) women, it’s 90%. Why though are women who driving so much of modern divorce?

Commenting on my article about why women always seem to go for the wrong guys, Vince C. asks

Chase, overall I certainly agree with most of what you're saying here but I think there should be a follow up article to this.

Because I'm genuinely curious, why is the divorce rate hovers close to 50% if many girls believe they are choosing the right guy for themselves, later to find out that this was in fact not the case?

A reader named Montage replies to Vince, noting that

Back in the day, a researcher looked at the divorce rate, concluding it was actually around 33-35%. The 50% figure was supposedly inflated by "serial divorcees."

I'm not sure why you're exclusively blaming women, though. What about the guys who filed for divorce? Some of them assumed they had found "Ms. Right," only to end up wrong. Other men marry their first wife for pure economics. Once a dude's career has taken off, he drops her for a trophy wife. I remember some guy did exactly that. Once his first wife had helped him graduate from schools of both law & medicine, he ditched the poor woman. He's no longer with us, and she's doing life in prison.

Another issue you're overlooking is that women's market value is mostly attractiveness/youth. For that reason, many will marry out of a fear of ending up as a spinster/weirdo, or out of a fear of life on one income, not because they feel they've found somebody special.

We know divorce happens.

We know it doesn’t always happen.

In India in 2024 the divorce rate was 1%.

In the United States in 1924, 100 years ago, the divorce rate was 14.4%, which is about a quarter what it is today. The U.S. was already the world leader in divorce at this point (and had since 1916).

Yet if you go all the way back to 1867 in the United States, the earliest date we have reliable data for, the American divorce rate was just 3%, not very much higher than India’s in 2024.

You can see how divorce rates have changed over the years in the U.S.:

U.S. marriage & divorce rates, 1867-2010

Obviously, we are looking at something highly variable over time.

Women initiate 69% of divorces overall. However, among women with the greatest amount of personal liberty – that is, college-educated women – women initiate a jaw-dropping 90% of divorces.

If women are carefully selecting men for a lifelong commitment, why are they the ones who most often break that up?

Once you’ve seen the dark side of women – how callously they can stray on men who deeply love them and lie about it – can you ever trust a girl again?

Over on X, there was a good long thread where guys shared their experiences being ‘side guys’: