Pickup

One common stumbling block for men who are rusty or inexperienced is deciding how to treat a woman. Should you treat her unfailingly well... or should you treat her in some other way?

In fact - particularly if you're new, or around women you consider "out of your league" - you may find yourself walking on eggshells around women you like, afraid of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing and causing such a girl to lose her temper with you and storm off in disgust.

So how do you treat her?

You may have heard this pithy remark before:

“You treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a queen.”

And today we're going to examine how that applies to the women you meet in day-to-day life.

I see some fellas out there nodding in agreement with this statement; "Aye, that's the way to do it!" they're saying to themselves.

I also see some guys out there shrinking back in terror; "You can't possibly expect me to treat a queen like a whore and a whore like a queen, can you?" they ask, all the color running out of their faces. "They'll hate me! I want them to love me!"

As it were, there's a lot of knowledge packed into this brief phrase - but to a point.

In this article, we're going to break this mentality down, dig into the queen/whore dichotomy, and see exactly why treating one like the other can provide you a boost most men won't ever experience.

In "How to Talk About Yourself on Dates," a commenter named Al asked about an article on frame control - examples and advanced/detailed technique:

“One future article I would love to see is a more advanced and detailed article on frame control. I have read a forum thread by you on advanced frame control which was beneficial and your frame control article on here but I feel I need more real life examples of adroit frame control to be able to master it myself.

To put it in to context this last month I have just been focused on reading conversation articles on here as this has been my little "month of conversation" (convenient you slip this article in before the end of the month!) and I found the most valuable article of yours was the annotated example of a conversation you would have. Personally, i find learning by imitating helps initially for all game-related things before i stamp my own persona on how these are used so such an article would be fantastic.

Thanks again,
Al”

Frame control's a neat topic, and an important one - persuasion and communication is a central point of human existence, and if you want to stay in control and have things go your way, you've got to be good at it - not just at winning debates, but at getting people to see things your way.

That's what frame control really is - it's painting the picture in a way that not only speaks to you, but to everyone who's looking at it... your "opponent" included.

Here, we'll be taking a deeper look at frame control than we have before, and it's a look chock full of examples to get you thinking about things in the most intuitive way possible.

Do you need to do things different when talking to a hot girl?

One of the most ridiculous things I see in the comments section of this website sometimes is this:

“This is stupid. It only works on average looking girls... it would NEVER work on a hot girl / a beautiful girl / a real 10.”

No qualification is given to the argument, or the experience level of the argument-maker.

There's no evidence to back the statement up.

There's no alternative solution offered.

It's just a random, unqualified wave-of-the-hand dismissal, hanging there in space, pooh-poohing 2,000+ words of case-making with what amounts to the esteemed argument of "Nope - you're wrong, I'm right, no proof necessary, I just know it! Case closed."

I see it on all kinds of articles. Everything from how to flirt with women, to how to hold a conversation with a girl, to how to handle logistics. It's indiscriminate... to believe these commenters is to believe that beautiful women live lives of celibacy, never interacting with those base creatures called "men," immune as they are to the charms of "men."

It's silliness.

But I understand where it comes from.

To the average man, hot and beautiful women really ARE like strange creatures from another world.

Mr. Regular Guy never interacts with them.

He never gets to know them.

To them, he does not exist, and to him, they exist merely as dreams... fantasies.

Is it really no different when you talk to a hot girl?

Or could it be there's something I'm not telling you?

One of our members on the discussion boards recently wrote about a girl he'd been out on a date with, who was very attracted to him, and with whom he'd made it all the way back to his place.

They reached his home, only for her to refuse coming upstairs with him. He persisted; she refused. He persisted; she refused. She then counter offered that he accompany her to a bar - he relented, then accepted. Once at the bar, they shared a few rounds of passionate kisses, then parted ways.

A few days later this girl who'd been previously very attracted to him - enough to accompany him all the way back to his home and to kiss him passionately at the bar texted him something very kind and considerate that concluded with her having realized they "didn't really have all that much in common after all." She was no longer interested in seeing him anymore.

He was surprised; she'd clearly been so attracted to him before. Why the sudden switch?

The reason why, I responded, was that he'd allowed her to take things backwards in the seduction; instead of moving ahead, things deescalated and retreated.

Going backwards in a seduction, as we will see in this article, does all kinds of bad things for you with precedent and attraction that you'll want to not have anything to do with... it's the seduction equivalent of the shady part of town you're better off steering clear of at all costs.

Over on the discussion boards, Landlord (a knowledgeable guy who's been having plenty of success and taking a bunch of girls to bed recently) asked about strategies on how to stop a cockblock:

“This girl was really into me, we had a great conversation, I went in for a kiss, she protested, I insisted, she gave me a strong, aggressive kiss/....she even 'apologized' for being so aggressive. Within 20 seconds, obstacle grabs her hand and drags her away.

HB9 immediately changes tone...says "you had your chance" and gives me her back walking away. I wait, go to the bathroom, then pursue. Ask for the number, she says "I would rather take yours, I want to be in control." I make a joke about that, put my number in her phone, then ring myself. She gives me shit about that. Will try to follow up, but not expecting any response.

A great interaction with a girl which included a kiss close and a number close was spoiled because I didn't handle the friend right....”

The good news is, Landlord heard from the girl in his example here later on, and they made plans to meet up. So not all was lost (the full thread on the boards is here).

If you're out and about and actively meeting new women in social venues, though (picking up girls in bars, nightclubs, parties, lounges, networking events, happy hours, get-togethers), you're sure to run into the problem of cockblocks sooner or later, and you'll often end up going half-mad when you do. How can someone else just come up and interrupt you and this girl when you're talking to one another and simply drag her away?

In this article, we'll be aiming to help you remedy these situations, by examining the two approaches to neutralizing the cockblock: prevention of the thing, and cure.

In "How Much Do Looks Matter for Romantic Success?," Balla asks whether to lower your standards in pursuit of getting the best results with women achievable:

“Hey Chase, I can agree with everything you wrote to a T. What I want to ask about is this.

You say naturals are better to learn from right? What I want to know is what your teaching us is natural stuff or pick up stuff? I ask because I know you learned on your own but I know that you also did learn how to pick up from naturals and puas.

I actually want to be natural, how do I become natural? I want to be the best I can be and know I can be better than a pua. Please don't tell me it's too late to become a natural seducer. Should I just sleep with all types of girls no matter how they look?
Thanks Chase!”

My answer was "it depends," and while I went into a bit more detail in my response in the comment section, this question's rather a nuanced one... and it depends very much on what you want, how you want to or can afford to go about getting it, and, ultimately, how far you're willing to go in order to get there.

In this article, we'll take a closer look at what things the answer "depends" upon - and what the different options are for you.

But ultimately, I want to discuss how lowering your standards can actually lead you to higher quality, more beautiful women over the long haul.

A reader named Tomas asks the following about interacting with awkward women in "Spell Broken: Big Mistakes That Shred Conversation":

“Just have a question. Some women do exactly one or more of those. They don't keep things light and/or stuck at topics and/or hold on to opposite opinions provoking debates and/or criticize... it might be even done unconsciously.

Sometimes she breaks the spell almost systematically and you cannot do anything. Those women may be attracted at first, but they literally undermine their own attraction to you. And I mean, not by your fault.

How should such situations be handled? If you persist, she loses all attraction. If you address the elephant in the room, she will be offended and sent into auto-rejection. In both cases, she will blame you for the result, not herself. Another option is just to disqualify her and run... Or is a better way?”

I remember running into girls like this when I was still figuring out my approach with women exactly. It sort of feels like these girls have antibodies against connection formation. It's like they simply don't want to get to know people on an intimate basis.

Eventually I realized that they were doing the same thing I used to do back in high school - using humor and debate and topic-jumping to protect themselves from getting into any real, meaningful conversation... or any conversation that ventures too close to the personal.

Realizing this, I set about trying to get to the bottom of it - and to see if I could find a way around it.