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Don't Hate the Player. And Don't Hate the Game

Chase Amante's picture

By: Chase Amante

don't hate the gameIt’s normal to feel frustrated when you don’t get what you want. But rather than let yourself hate “the game”… why not just get good at the game instead?

On my article about your opinions about women betraying your success (or lack thereof) with women, a reader comments:

When it comes to bitterness it's usually not towards women as a whole. Sure some of the negative qualities of women can irritate me like not being consistent with their emotions/feelings/thoughts and their obliviousness in general. But I still have love for women and I always remind myself of this.

My bitterness is more directed towards the game and the dynamics of the sexual marketplace where women are buyers and men are sellers and to get attractive quality women men have to do a lot of work and grinding just to increase the probabilities of getting them. In addition to that they gotta deal with the bs society throws at them with their man shaming,masculinity draining tactics,"empowerment" of women which makes it harder for men to play their role as the aggressor,and makes women even more difficult to have as a ltr. Even if you become a high value man with good fundamentals you never ever really stop becoming a seller you just have a better product,but you still have to go around and market it and hope women like what you have to offer. You've probably heard the peasant/begger analogy before do you believe it's a bad comparison? I don't feel like a begger when I cold approach,but it's still not efficient. Even when you're good there will always be assymetric returns.

Personally I know I need to get better and I still approach women occasionally. Although when I do I fight a lot of internal resistance and always have this attitude of "sigh I need to go approach women because I don't currently have any and I need to be smooth and perfect as I do it or I will just get flaky numbers at best.

Coaches say that you need to enjoy the process and have fun with learning seduction and treat it like a game,but how do you have fun with it? How do you have fun with doing something you suck at doing,can be unpleasant and difficult at times and don't know when or it will payoff?

You could be turning your wheels for nothing and put all that effort only to end up having to settle for average looking women who don't fufill you.

It's a good comment. "I don't dislike women, but I do dislike the game," we might sum our reader's comment up as.

Of course, most everyone who's successful at anything learns to enjoy it.

I think we all know naturally that guys who have fun meeting girls tend to do a lot better at it than guys who do not.

The challenge is, before you're getting great results, how can doing this thing, which is nerve-wracking, that exposes you to rejection, that often sucks up time before producing any results, be enjoyable?

You Can Frame Your Way Out of Almost Anything

Chase Amante's picture
frame your way outWhen you run into a potentially awkward situation with a woman, you need to ask yourself: will she be the one who controls the frame, or will it be you who does?

How much of seduction is words, appearance, or actions... and how much of it is just frames?

If I walk up to a woman and she acts like she doesn't want me and I accept that frame, that was frames.

Likewise, if I walk up to a woman and she acts like she doesn't want me, then I persist with her in a charming way that conveys I know she really does want me, and she decides she finds me intriguing and starts to feel attraction, that was frames too.

If someone accuses me of something, and I accept the accusation and feel ashamed and bashfully apologize, that's frames.

Just the same, if someone accuses me of something, and I parry that accusation and making a convincing case that in fact I was in the right all along, and the other party backs down, well that too is frames.

Frames run as a constant undercurrent throughout all social interaction. If you've followed along with Alek Rolstad's latest series on frames, you know you can divide frames up into social and sexual, for instance. You know, from his series and our other pieces here on frame control, of various ways you can adjust, tweak, and impose your frames.

Good frame control consists of the expert interplay between known facts and offered explanations. If I saw someone grab my basketball and walk off the basketball court with it, and I believe he stole it and am about to alert the police officer standing nearby, you won't change my mind by insisting that I'm wrong and I didn't see it and that guy did not steal the basketball. However, you might change my mind by telling me he's a good guy and he only just took the basketball to reinflate it because it was low on air and getting flat, and that he'll be right back with it.

If you're telling the truth, you'll have saved a good Samaritan from a run-in with the police; if you're lying, you'll have allowed a thief to escape with my basketball. Either way, by pulling me into your frame, you have altered the course of events.

Frames won't always be as cut-and-dry as 'stealing or not stealing' either.

Many times what is being framed is something fuzzy:

  • Are you the prize or is she?
  • Is she interested in you or disinterested?
  • Were you committing a faux pas or did she commit the faux pas (or no one did)?
  • Whose views are more accurate: yours or hers? Or are both your views actually the same and she just did not realize it?

In the end, what determines how a great many things in your social life go is how good you are at framing: how expertly you frame, how well you tie the frames you establish to known facts and details, and how believably you convey your own belief in the frames you purport to hold.

When a Girl You’re After Embarrasses You

Chase Amante's picture

By: Chase Amante

girl embarrasses youAt times you’ll meet women who get one over on you. They extract a free drink or meal, ditch you for another guy, use you for an ego boost, or more. How should you respond?

On our forum, there's a field report a member of ours shared where a beautiful girl he met in a nightclub tricked him into buying a drink, then strung him along after that.

The drink-buy then triggered the predictable possession/reciprocation instinct any guy who's been manipulated into buying things for women has experienced. That in turn led our forum member, who's usually a pretty solid guy, to make a bunch more mistakes and dig a much deeper hole than he normally would.

He was honest about how things went:

  • He felt tricked
  • He felt angry
  • He wanted to 'win'

... and all those emotions caused him to continue to pursue this girl, digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole.

I went through many such situations early on in my seduction career.

Most guys will -- especially guys who do night game, and especially guys who do clubs.

When it happens, you will typically know you are doing something wrong -- as Beam did here -- but you will do it anyway, driven by emotions of wanting to get back your pride, balance things out with this woman who tooled you, and save face.

But this is almost never the right course of action: it won't get you the girl, and it won't improve your outing.

Instead, you must deal with embarrassing/humiliating situations with women in-field in a different way.

The Patchwork Seducer

Chase Amante's picture

By: Chase Amante

patchwork seducerDo you learn seduction by following a teacher or method you trust? Or are you “piecing together” a patchwork style taken from bits and pieces adopted from here and there?

I've gotta be honest: I can be a little closed-minded, at least while in my learning phase.

When I first discovered the seduction community, I fished about looking for a method or teacher that really resonated with me. I rejected a lot of objectively good teachers and methods, because I didn't feel they gelled with me, until I found one that did.

Then I mostly just followed that one system for years, while also studying guys here and there whose stuff did not conflict with it.

At times I'd try to study other guys I thought aligned with it, found they didn't align, and ended up throwing out almost everything I got from them, even though it was objectively good. I went on bootcamps with guys whose methods were too different from the main one I studied, had some success on those bootcamps, then abandoned the things I'd learned on them after because they didn't gel.

Most of the guys I know who became very good with girls were like this. They were single-minded about following a certain instructor or method that gelled very well with them, or developed their own from scratch with a single-minded focus on what they were seeking to develop, and were and are without fault picky about whom they listened to or incorporated ideas from outside their sphere.

(I love exploring different skilled guys' methods. There's usually something you can learn from anyone. That said, there is a limited amount to what you can glean from someone with a sufficiently different approach to yours, if you are trying to keep things within your own approach consistent and functional)

Now... there is another learning style some guys employ. One that is the bane of seduction coaches everywhere. It is both very open-minded in some ways, and totally obstinate in others.

It is the teacher's bane, because it invariably leads to confused students who aren't getting their desired results, and don't know why they aren't getting those results, who try blaming the various teachers they have studied, the methods they have learned, even women themselves, despite not fully following those teachers' instruction or methods' approaches.

It is what we might call the patchwork style of learning.

We might also call the men who use it the patchwork seducers.

What Is a Frame?

Alek Rolstad's picture

By: Alek Rolstad

frames: definitionFrames are one of the key cornerstones in pickup and seduction. But what exactly are they?

Hey guys, and welcome back!

Today I’d like to discuss theory and cover frames. Frame control, framing, and frames are key cornerstones in pickup and seduction. If I had to keep only one tool in my arsenal, I would keep frame control – there, I said it. I wrote a detailed guide on frame control, but I’ve never dedicated a post to explaining what a frame actually is and what our community means by that word. All this site’s contributors and those on other sites will use terms like frames. And yet, I haven’t seen it explained thoroughly. I hope this post will rectify this.

This post is suited for both advanced guys and beginners. First, I’ll cover the straightforward basics about frames and what they are. The second part is rather advanced and quite theoretical. (If you’re a theory junkie, you’ll love it).

If you came here merely to get a definition of frames, you’ll only need to read the first half.

Still, it’s important to make this post understandable to newer guys, and I hope it will clear up misunderstandings you may have. Finally, we’ll have frames covered comprehensively once and for all.

Other Men Are (Largely) Irrelevant for Skilled Daters

Chase Amante's picture

By: Chase Amante

other menMen who are not super experienced with women tend to focus a lot on other men. Yet the romantically experienced man, in contrast, focuses on women, with little time for other men.

Recently I was observing myself, as I like to do, and noting my own behavior.

I was watching a particularly beautiful woman in a conversation with a man. The two were flirting and the woman was alternating between showing interest in him and playfully rolling her eyes at him.

I could tell you exactly what the woman looked like, what hairstyle she had, what color clothes she had on and what type, her facial features, facial expressions, and so on.

I have only the faintest idea what the man looked like. I didn't bother to note whether he was short or tall, muscular or skinny or fat, or had any facial hair. I did notice he had short hair spiked in the front (possibly with gel). I have no idea if he was good-looking or not, but I'm not really able to tell that with men generally. I don't know what he was wearing.

I realized this after I glimpsed briefly at the man, but returned to focusing squarely on the woman. As I observed myself, I noted this difference, and asked myself what I was looking for in the woman. I realized I was looking to see if she made signals in my direction, or indicated in any way that she wanted me, or any other man than the one she was with in general, to enter the conversation and whisk her away.

While I was observing her, I thought about how when people watch sex videos, both men and women focus on the woman: her facial expressions, reactions, etc.

And I thought, "There's an analogue here, perhaps."

But then I thought of how many novice seducers are constantly talking to me about men here on Girls Chase. They compare themselves to other men ("I'm not that tall", "I'm not good-looking", "I can't build muscle", etc.). They talk about what kinds of men women go for. They talk about being intimidated by other men.

And I realized I don't think any experienced guy I know thinks about other men the way seduction rookies do.

The only people overly worried about male competitors is men who aren't very good at competing for women.

Game Is in Your DNA (But It Might Be Suppressed)

Chase Amante's picture

By: Chase Amante

game is with usThe ability to meet, flirt, and seduce (i.e., ‘game’) is embedded in the genes of every man. Unlocking that ability, then honing it with practice, rigor, and skill, is another thing…

In a comment on another article of mine, reader Ciro says

Historically speaking game as you call it, was never a factor in the past for getting women. Women needed men to provide for them, that's why game was never something you had to learn. Your grandfather and my grandfather didn't game women because a) they didn't have to and b) they wouldn't even know how to. Who would have taught them? Only recently women have become indipendent financially, now they can choose their men. They don't have to settle for the unattractive guy with a good job anymore when they are 21 only (yet some still do at a certain age). If game was a natural thing then why do most men have no game whatsoever? Why isn't game imprinited in our DNA if that is how you attract women? It should be natural.

This is a position I've seen around the Internet, on men's sites, and all over the place, really.

At first blush, it might seem to feel correct. There was no Girls Chase in 1960, after all! Nobody needed to read How to Make Girls Chase before the Summer of Love! They just went and hooked up!

However, it relies on some fundamental misunderstandings of why seduction became so prominent in the 2000s and 2010s (before sliding back into obscurity again in the 2020s).

The fact is, game has always been with us -- and it is, indeed, embedded within our DNA.

Removing Fear Through Good Practice (Rejection Part 1)

Alek Rolstad's picture

By: Alek Rolstad

removing fearMen are afraid of rejection. But there are ways to optimize yourself to rarely encounter it.

Editor's note: this is Part 1 of Alek's 2-part series on fear and resistance. We mistakenly published Part 2 first. You can read Part 2 of the series here.


Hey all! I hope you’re doing great.

Today I want to discuss a simple subject that many men have issues with: “making a move.” This could be:

  • Approaching,

  • Escalating the vibe

  • “Going for the kill” (Inviting her to go home with you)

We won’t be covering anything new. Instead, we’ll be going over well-trod ground, but covering old concepts in a new light, giving readers clarification on how things fit together. This post is mostly suited to beginners, but intermediate players may also benefit.

Guys may hold themselves back from making a move, understandably, due to fear of rejection. There’s no sense pretending rejections are pleasant. The truth is they can hurt our egos or even our dignity as men.

As a result, many have suggested using mindsets or mental exercises to counter these fears. I’m not here to say these don’t work, as they can be beneficial. However, I want to offer a more practical solution or mindset to help conquer these fears. My solutions aren’t intended to discredit others you may seek to apply. We aren’t dealing with an “either/or” dichotomy but rather something you can ADD to your arsenal.

So, let’s get on with it.

Socialized Preferences in Dating: How Much of Our Romantic Tastes Are Acquired?

Chase Amante's picture
socialized preferencesWhy do you have the sexual, romantic preferences you do? Much of it is socialized. That is: you learn it from your experiences, your environment, and the media you consume.

We had a discussion on the forum about dating older women. In particular, "What's the oldest woman you've been with?"

The guys there had predictably varied tastes. Some guys are very into older women. Some are fine with much older women. But some aren't.

A point I raised was that it seems to me a preference for older women is likely socialized. i.e., this is a preference acquired by men, due to influences around them.

A lot of people aren't aware of just how many of their tastes are acquired tastes. They also often aren't aware of how they acquire them.

So from whence, pray tell, do your romantic likes originate?