Social Commentary

On Ricardus's post "How to Make Her Want You: Lessons from Marketing," a commenter named Garrett reports being conflicted over a few aspects of what's taught here. In particular, he asks why physical intimacy is needed with romantic partners, and if dating without sex isn't also just as possible.

Here's the part of his comment dealing with this topic:

“Out of curiosity, I've spent a lot of time researching this topic, and there are a few things I fail to understand. Firstly, to get a girlfriend, why must you sleep with them? If you can prove me wrong then I'd be interested to know, but I feel indifferent about this. I feel that everything in life requires balance and in order to get a girl to like you, you should be yourself, be mindful of ways to improve yourself, and strike a balance between acting like a jerk and on the contrary, a 'wet noodle' who is no challenge whatsoever.”

Garrett also goes on to say that he feels like other aspects of what's discussed on Girls Chase feel to him like "manipulation," though this is a topic already addressed in depth in " Is Seduction Wrong?," the basic premise of which is that people who lack the drive to improve themselves fear others who do who become conscious of their own actions and strive to perfect them, typically working to censor them and stop them to prevent competition and declining options for themselves (e.g., you will rarely have a successful career woman who's had to tooth and claw her way to success and improve herself dramatically stand and accuse you of being manipulative for learning seduction, though you will often have a girl who dropped out of high school and works at the local taco shop fly into a frenzy over how "manipulative" men like you are, presuming of course that she doesn't actually know you and is instead setting you up in her mind as some diabolical "other").

I won't cover whether seduction is manipulation and whether I ought to censor myself here or not again, although I will note that it does partly come down to where you draw the line - there are certain "dark arts" of seduction, like October Man and like Sexual Power Reversal, that I simply don't teach because it's too easy to do harm to women by wielding these clumsily. So, I do have an "ethical limit;" if I really honestly think it's something that can lead to the average man doing more harm than good, I don't teach it.

What I will talk about here today is if it's really necessary for you to have sex with a woman you want to pursue a romantic relationship with. Can you skip this step and get by with just waiting for marriage?

It's a question I've been asked a number of times on the site, and haven't addressed yet... at least on here.

But, as it turns out, this is actually one of the very first questions I had to discuss - and debate - on a public scale that has to do with sex.

So come with me, and let's have a look at what happens when you do not have sex.

I had a conversation the other night over dinner with a friend of mine. He confessed to me that he'd had a moment in university where he'd failed a class, and it made him seriously question his smarts. Before that, he'd always had an easy time in classes, always been at the top of his class, and viewed himself as smarter than 99.9% of people. But after... he'd spent the next 10 years or so trying to figure out, if he isn't smarter than everybody else, then what's so special about him?

We talked some more, and he made some comment later about me being "smart." There it was again... this notion of "smarts." And I said this to my friend:

"You know, when people call me 'smart,' I actually find it mildly insulting."

"Well, I'm sorry for 'insulting' you, Chase!" he said, half in jest. And I took a moment to try and define why it is that I feel like "smart" is an insult - and then I realized it.

The feeling for me is that when someone calls me "smart," they're taking away all my credit for having worked hard. It's similar to someone calling you "lucky," or "handsome," or "naturally gifted," or anything else that serves to make it sound like you didn't actually DO anything to get whatever it is you got... you just happened into it by a roll of the dice, or a winning of the genetic jackpot.

I realized something else in that moment though, too - a lot of the things my friend was struggling with, that I didn't struggle with, these mindsets, these limiting beliefs - were coming from the fact that he saw some people as smarter than others, and some people not as smart, and that because of this, what they could accomplish was set in stone.

It's a totally different way of looking at the world from how I look at it, and other people who look first to "hard work," and not much at all to "smarts."

So we talked about this, him and I, and I explained why the answer to the question "Are you smart?" has a lot less to do with your results and success rates than you might think, and why thinking that smarts are essential places a ceiling on your accomplishments - regardless of whether you're brilliant, above average, or square in the middle.

Let's have a look at why.

Note from Chase: This is a guest post by my friend Mark Manson over at Postmasculine. Mark's just released an inventive new book titled Escape Plan: Ditch the Rat Race and Discover the World, and to mark the occasion he's put together a "dream trip contest" the likes of which you usually only see on well-funded TV gameshows, with him flying the winner out to a chosen dream destination and Mark footing the bill for flights and lodging. Details if you're interested on the Escape Plan page.

To promote his new book and the idea of ditching the rat race and escaping wherever you want in the world, Mark's assembled this post on his travels picking up women in foreign countries just for us here at Girls Chase. Onward.

I have been fortunate enough the past few years to not only travel all over the world, but to do it as a young, single man. I’ve spent more than my fair share of time pursuing the women of foreign countries. In fact, I can say that it’s become one of the most interesting and exciting ways to acquaint myself with a new culture.

When men back home hear my stories, a lot of them make the assumption that meeting and dating women in these cultures is easy. They figure I’m a young American and so women must throw themselves at me wherever I go. They think that just because I’m from a rich country and I’m white, that women throw themselves at me wherever I go.

Not the case.

The truth is that meeting women while traveling gets a bit complicated. It presents a set of extreme circumstances and there are a lot more variables to deal with.

There are language barriers, cultural barriers, racial stereotypes, logistical conundrums, and not to mention you’re in a totally unfamiliar place and don’t know a single person.

It’s not always easy. But it can be exciting as hell.

Here’s a brief breakdown of the major factors one needs to be aware of when traveling to a new country as a single man. It IS possible to have some amazing sexual experiences with foreign women, and in many cases, these experiences can be far more exciting or enjoyable than the ones you have with women back home.

But you have to know what you’re doing.

A friend of mine just asked me a question about guy talk; in other words, what he said was:

“Chase, I've been learning to talk to girls for the better part of 2 years, and I think I've got a lot of it down at this point... but my question is, how do I talk to guys?”

We'd been discussing a few of his quirks: despite me working with him somewhat, he still seems to have a level of tension around him that he often doesn't seem to let go. He always strikes me a though he's trying to make his conversation; trying to "be cool" or "be one of the guys."

And other people have told me the same thing about him.

So, I sat him down to talk about guy talk. It turned out that this friend of mine has what I call a "hierarchical view of the world" - a view I think most people share, but that I don't. What happens to people with hierarchical worldviews is this: they feel intimidated and nervous by those they view as "above" them in the hierarchy.

And thus, they get uncomfortable around men they perceive as "dominant men" or "alpha males."

And thus, like anytime someone gets nervous or uncomfortable, they make mistakes and screw it up.

They try too hard.

They come off insincere.

And as I talked to my friend, I racked my brain trying to figure out if there's a way you can even get around this. A hierarchical mindset is a tough nut to crack - I've tried and failed with friends before.

But if you're uncomfortable engaging in "guy talk" and talking to other guys, is there a way to change that and get good?

Here's a post that's sure to raise some ire.

Ricardus and I were discussing men's tendency to want to sleep with sexually open women, but to date or settle down with or marry sexually conservative women - and how difficult it is actually figuring out how many partners women have actually had because of this. You see, women are acutely aware of this male bias against sexually experienced women when it comes to getting into serious relationships - and they do everything in their power to avoid getting pinned as such a woman.

"Everything in their power" here including, sometimes (okay, oftentimes), stretching the truth, leaving things out about their forgotten pasts, and, well, lying.

Of course, women don't think of it as lying. It's more like, "Well, I slept with that guy on vacation, so he doesn't count," or, "That guy was totally gross, I should never have hooked up with him... as far as I'm concerned, that didn't really happened."

It's a form of selective memory used by a woman to preserve her idea about herself as fitting perfectly into society's recommended mold: that of the "good girl" who doesn't give it up too often to men. Women who do part with their bodies too easily, society tells women, aren't valued as highly, so it's a big no-no.

But, well, women are people, and people like and want sex, and sometimes it... just happens. Of course, a woman doesn't want other people to know it just happened... at least, not as much as it actually has just happened... because that impacts her perceived social and reproductive value.

So, she stretches the truth, leaves things out, and, where necessary, tells a lie or two.

Any women reading this site may not especially like this article, but if you're a man who's seriously considering a relationship with a girl, and you want to know what you're actually getting instead of what you're being told you're getting... how do you tell who's whom?

... no, I'm not going to suggest that you dodge the dangers of sex and the dangers of dating by dodging sex and dating. That's a little too extreme - I'll leave the abstinence education to the religious institutions.

But if you're active sexually and you're active in the dating world these days, you're probably meeting, dating, and getting together with a fair number of different women. And like anything where you're inviting people into a level of intimacy and closeness to you, you need to be very careful of the dangers that can come with that, too.

It isn't all just good times and happy memories. If you're not paying attention, you can literally open yourself up to all kinds of problems from sex and dating... and not just the ones you hear about in high school, either.

Therefore, today, we're taking a momentary break from giving you tips and techniques on how to get the girls you really like, and instead bringing you this public service announcement - to make sure that when you get those girls, you'll be well-prepared to enjoy your time with them to the fullest - and not have to worry about getting taken to the cleaners or something else you don't want to have happen.

Let's dive in.

Some years back, as I played around with cold reading, I soon found it often wasn't to my advantage to label people. I'd try; coming up with all kinds of cutesy labels like, "Ah, so you're an adventurer," or, "You're a pretty ambitious person, then." These were seemingly positive labels, but often the women I used them with would reject them. "No, not really," they'd say. It was odd.

I began to realize there was power in labeling. When you label someone, you are, in effect, telling them who or what they are. You're setting yourself up in the position of deciding someone else's identity.

That gives you great power if you can pull it off. It also gives you great responsibility toward the people you label.

But it also opens you up to being knocked down a peg or two, the same way we discussed combating people trying to "tool" you or make you look silly or weak in "Dealing with Disruptive Men;" basically, by politely but firmly shutting this down.

As I began to explore labels more, I gradually got better at using them correctly with other people - and shutting down the efforts of people who sought to use them in a damaging way with me.