Why Relationships Fall Apart, Part 2: Long-Term Value Unclear | Girls Chase

Why Relationships Fall Apart, Part 2: Long-Term Value Unclear

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

This is Part 2 of my series on why relationships fall apart. You can read Part 1, on what I called ‘game-personality disconnect’ (where you use one persona to get her, then adopt a different persona in the relationship) here.

Part 2 is on your long-term value proposition. That is to say, if she’s going to stick around with you, there must be a clear value proposition there over the long-term.

long-term value

If you have an easy time sleeping with new women but a hard time keeping them around, it’s likely this issue is your bugbear.

The biggest part of this issue, of course, is understanding the answer to this question: what does this girl require of a man for her to stick with him long-term?

Unless you can answer that, it’s luck you rely on that she stays with you.

Today, let’s talk about how you rely on something more than luck.

Comments

Tennant's picture

After reading the part where you made yourself look great for job interviews and getting the job , id love to hear tips on how to land a job or find one at least. Thanks.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Tennant-

Check out this post of mine on our discussion boards: "How Can I Make Money Right Now?"

Scroll down to "Get a Job" - I have my strategy laid out there. My second post in that thread may be helpful for landing interviews / job invitation as well.

Chase

Sub-Zero's picture

When you said you should make an article about the topics, were you talking about both? Or just child support or something?

If you do decide to make an article, I just wanted to ask some real quick questions.

You recommend to have kids at 35+ with younger women.

1. How do you fight the norm with ease? It seems that the norm is having kids young, in you're early to mid 20s. I actually want kids in my 30s mostly because I'll be more financially stable.
So how do you not look weird for not having a kid around the same age as everyone else?

2. I'm assuming that you mean the somewhat normal guy can get a younger girl pregnant and not the super extraordinary older man you talked about in the articles?
How does a normal 35 yr old guy have a child with a younger woman? How much younger should a man go?

3. If a guy is around 35 and say he doesn't know this stuff and he's average, what can he do to get himself a nice young hot baby momma? Is he too old to start from the beginning with learning how to pick up girls? Especially too late to get the hot ones?

4. One more question and I guess this would go for child support as well. You said that a girl would most likely not try to put you on alimony if you aren't someone she doesn't want to cross paths with. And you said you have experience with this, what does one have to do to make it like that?

Thanks Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

I meant I was thinking about doing one on avoiding divorce rape, on why the men who get divorced rape do, and what to do to prevent it. Child support and alimony both factoring into the divorce rape picture.

Fighting the norm… might depend on your area. I’ve lived primarily in large cities, and there are lots of people having children in their mid-thirties and up. If you’re in a smaller town, it may help to get away for a while, and when you come back, if you need to justify yourself, you can justify it as “Everyone has children in their 30s in the cities these days”, etc.

Re: somewhat normal guys, sure. There are plenty of fairly normal 35-year-old men who can still do well with women in their early- to mid-twenties, or older if preferred. The steps for having a child with a younger woman when you’re 35 are 1.) date younger woman, 2.) have child with said younger woman :)

To get such a girl, go meet girls where young girls are. Anywhere women congregate. This site’s full of a wealth of resources on where such places are; here’s one such list:

Where to Find an Amazing Woman: 20 Surprising Places

As for not being someone a woman wants to be enemies with, that’s a bit too much to go into in a comment. However, if it’s a topic of interest, I suggest reading Machiavelli’s The Prince, Sun Tzu’s The Art of War, and Musashi’s The Five Rings to start.

Chase

Sub-Zero's picture

Regarding your socially helpless article. I wanted to know what age group is that for? I ask because you said it takes years to learn it, like 6? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be too late if a grown ass man was doing that stuff? What is the age limit for this?

I feel I'm OK socially, I get invited to parties, my phone doesn't blow up per se, but people like me enough and want to hang. They aren't cold approach or amything, but people I work with will come up to me asking to hang, so I assume I'm okay socially.

I do try to make more conversation now after reading the site, and that shit feels weird as hell.

Anyway maybe you can explain this. I never gave it much thought, nor cared, but thought about it after reading your article.
Most of my life I have people who are buddy buddy with me and want to hang all of the time, but they end up changing and just being different, and I don't act any different at all. It's like they're fake.

I've had that happen a lot. People just change. They act like I did something wrong to them, and when I sense they are acting weird I ignore them and then they try to be buddy buddy for that moment.

Any idea about that?

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

I suppose the age limit might be 107 or so. That seems to be about the upper limit of when most folks are able to get out and be mobile and socialize. I’ve heard of a few folks around 107 who still go on runs and talk to strangers, but past that you seem to become bedridden, and of course some folks are too ill to go outside and socialize earlier in life than that. If you’re poor of health, your limit might be more around your 60s or 70s.

Of course, if you have limiting beliefs, like, “I’m too old to learn that,” your limit could be 10 or 11 or whenever you’ve decided you can’t learn something. I’ve met plenty of folks who dropped out of school in middle school and didn’t learn a thing after that because they were convinced there was nothing else to learn. Depends on the individual.

I feel like you care a great deal about what you “should” do. Worrying about how to justify having children later in life (defying social convention), how to get a younger woman (defying social convention), how late is too late to learn social skills (defying social convention). This seems to be the source of your continual questions about “Is it too late for me?” I suppose the answer for you is, “Well, if you allow your life to be ruled by the opinions of others, then yeah – maybe it IS too late for you.”

Of course, if you walk your own path, it isn’t too late till they’re shoveling dirt in your grave.

As for people deciding to quit being buddy-buddy with you, and you haven’t changed, that happens most often with people who are trying to build a new social network. The surge in “Let’s hang!” invitations happens when they’re on the hunt for new members of the network; the drop off occurs once they’ve solidified a circle of regular new friends who suit them well and aren’t trawling for new friends (and you aren’t someone they ultimately decided to hang onto in their new core circle).

Can also happen when people become newly single and suddenly want to hang out with everyone and know where the party is again; once they find a new mate, they stop going out and stop messaging folks to meet up anymore.

Chase

Anonym's picture

Hi Chase,

I would like to ask you a few things:

1. Recently when I was in a store I met one really gorgeous girl who works as a shop assistant in the store. She is probably a student having some kind of part time temporary job. Can you give me an advice how to approach and open her etc?
Here are details: It is a small store with university souvenirs, so there most of the time are there no customers. But there is also most of the time one male colleague (sometimes he leaves the room for a while, but it is irregular). In one article on GirlsChase Ross adviced approach retail workers with direct compliment, then asking "are you single?" and then screening for logistics/contact information. In my situation, there is some time to talk to her, but applying this strategy in front of her colleague would be rather awkward for both her and me (also a threat for her reputation). I do not know her name or anything else about her. When I met her for the first time I was in the store with my colleague and my boss so it was not the best situation for approaching her. She does not work here every day. Do you have any advice how to approach and open her?

2. If there is a man 31 years old without any experience with women (no sex, no relationships, no dates...), do you think he should tell it to a girl he is interested, assuming he has a date/dates with her? If yes, when? And if not, what if she asks something about his past? Any girl with some experience can easily recognize if a man has no experience. Lying is bad for many reasons and avoiding the answer might be suspicious. Telling the truth might be a deal-breaker for many girls (she may think what a loser he is, or what is wrong with him...) and rather embarrassing for him. What do you think about it?

3. Can you write an article about sex drive? It might be interesting for many readers.

Thank you.

Anonym

P.S. Sorry for grammar mistakes, English is not my native language.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonym-

I suggest you post a field report about the shop girl on our boards here: Field Reports.

As for telling women you are sexually inexperienced, I know it’s tempting, but no. When you’re inexperienced, you tend to be living in your head, and I know it’s easy to imagine some girl taking pity on you and pity-shagging you to help relieve you of your virginity, but in practice such women are exceedingly rare. Most women do not want the responsibility of being a man’s first time; they’ll tell you they’re not the right girl for you, or you should go find a girl you really care about. Even if you really care about them, they’ll assume it’s just childish infatuation and that you can’t feel the emotions a sexually experienced man will feel. You’ll scare off almost every woman you “confess” to. Keep it to yourself and just be vague if the topic of past partners comes up (often it won’t). Don’t worry about her “sensing” it; yes, many women will know something is off, but there’s nothing you can do about that until you’re more sexually experienced. For now, suck it up, keep meeting women, keep setting up dates, keep inviting women home, and eventually you’ll catch a break, get laid, and start racking up the experience you’ve fallen a little behind on.

And, an article on sex drive, I’ll add it to the article queue. For now, these might help:

Chase

Alexander Abraham's picture

Hey Chase, really love the article. It's helped fill in a lot of missing puzzle pieces for me about things that have been driving me insane. But I do have some questions:

1) Do you have any recommendations as to where I should move to find more free spirits that want to live an exciting life like myself? Where I live sucks and I want to move sometime this year. Any opinions on where I should go? Preferably somewhere warm but at this point I'm willing to try just about anything.

2) You mentioned 'GISS' in an article about Growth in relationships. I don't recall finding anything in any other articles about the 'ISS' part. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough, but could you dive further into that or tell me where to look?

-Always appreciative of your work
Sincerely, the guy that's going to change his name eventually :P

J wick's picture

Hey,

So where you live sucks and you want to move?

Where do you live right now?

That'll help give you some recommendations because if you're from small town USA with pop. 1,000 then almost anywhere will be better. If you're from NYC, different story.

I've recently moved and part of the motivation was to live somewhere with more cute girls, and I'm looking to relocate again to even greener grass (sometimes it really is greener) so I might be able to give you some ideas.

-jW

Alexander's picture

Right now I live in Missouri with a population of around 150-200K. So it's not really the size of the city that's the problem. It's the kind of girls that are here that I don't really like (or it could even be my age range, 24).

Plus I'm a weeny when it comes to cold weather lol.

And that's really awesome that you've already moved and plan to again! I believe the takes guts, so awesome sauce :)

Alexander's picture

And also thank you for your rely, I appreciate it :)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Alexander-

Like J Wick notes, depends where you’re coming from.

Also depends on what “free spirit” means to you!

If you mean ambitious travelers, any large international metropolitan city is great, particularly in a non-English speaking country – you’ll be interacting with expatriates, who tend to be some of the most excellent people you’ll meet; even folks from your own country are a cut above (expatriates are invariably hungrier, more dynamic, and more open-minded than their more rooted home country compatriots are – something you’ll see as soon as you start living abroad).

If you mean a kind of relaxed or fun-seeking life, you might want to consider becoming a tour guide or otherwise living in a party area, like Cancun or Koh Phangon. Or work at a ski lodge, or some other place people go on vacation for fun.

As for my relationship model, GISS, I haven’t talked about it anywhere else I don’t believe, no. I still might do a book or course on it at some point; I’m still debating!

Chase

Alexander's picture

I guess what free spirit means to me is just open-minded and likes adventure. I remember looking up free spirits on Google and the party scene has never made me happy, so that's not it.

It took me some time to really narrow down what makes me happy and that'd be a little bit of a nerd. Which means my best bet would be the library or Barnes and Nobles for starters. Then of course just be on the lookout for women that interest me while I'm already doing the different things I'm doing in my life.

But I want to experience what life has to offer. I love being active and doing new things and just exploring. As well as reading and always striving to better than I was the day before. and of course being an absolute goofy dude.

That's what I meant, though worded it very poorly. I appreciate your reply :)

And would be first in line to buy that GISS book. I want it lol.

Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

Another good article, thanks bro!
Back then, you talked about a relationship book, but you weren't ready to market another book.
Good to see relationship stuff up (when I reach that haha)

Just one question,
I've watched TV and saw a gangster approach a shy girl, she acted completely aloof, scared actually. I've been reading my logs lately and noticed something: some girls are warm when I open them (but number flakes...); some girls are neutral, and polite, while some are aloof or even glare at me when I pre-open them (casually walk next to them and cup their elbow) while in the same outfit. Though, the girls who glare at me when I meet their gaze after pre-opening, soften their brow when I direct open. It's like a relief in their eyes. However, these didn't lead to anywhere, they became polite but from my logs, no number resulted from it. A few didn't relax, and walked away with a glare. It's so cute! I remember bursting out laughing! We're strangers and she's giving me the glare of her ancestral nemesis!

Anyway, I'm not wearing a spikey leather jacket with a tattoo saying "Fuck the world" on my chest, but I do wear a hoodie (not baggy anymore thanks to your fashion article!) and some casual cargo pants. Strange, I do get some interested girls with the same outfit who engaged me.

But I'm worried that them being aloof at times, isn't because of I'm too high value, or unrelatable but them feeling scared... How do I tackle or determine if it 's the case with this ?

Re: Idea for Valentines
Thanks for your advice bro on valentines.
Just thinking, if girls were aloof at me prior,and I text them a date ask after valentines, I'm curious if this will get me warm responses. Three possible scenarios:

1. They were uninterested and single, but valentines day reminded them how lonely they were, hence, they give the guy a chance (and a chance is all he needs)

2. They were interested and single, but attraction died and went cold, but valentines day made them bitter and warms them up again

3. They had a boyfriend, and that's why they were cold toward the guy in the first place.

Number 1 and 2 might change the situation. Number 3, well...date ask won't make a difference if bf was the core issue unless bf didn't spend time with her that day. All potentially leading to change.

What do you think, bro?
Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

If you think women are scared of you, try change your attire and facial expressions. Smile playfully, dress in button-down shirts instead of hoodies, and just generally look nice and presentable. See if the reactions you get change.

As for the post-Valentine's Day text... well, you won't know until you send it, collect the responses, meet the girls after, and find out what their story is, will you? You'll just have to get to work sending ;)

Chase

Seventh Sky's picture

Quote from your article: "I’ve noticed a lot of guys who are good at picking up girls often set their sights on women who are professionally successful, too... at least, more professionally successful than they are. I’m not sure why this is (I have theories, but nothing I’m 100% on), particularly since it seems like a lot of ‘regular guys’ aim for women who are less professionally successful than they are, much of the time."

The guys who are good at pickup use their skills to marry up in terms of social status whereas the regular guys just want a girl they can hold onto. It's all about what they can each afford.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Fair enough, Seventh Sky!

Chase

Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

Thanks for replying my comments about phone call!
Noted about weekend limitations applying only at night.
It totally slipped my mind for that. While people have things during day, should I be concerned about this?

Lastly, if we are to do last text invite, and followed by throw in the ball court phone call that night,
would weekend nights be ok or just wait until weekday?

If they don't pick up for the last call, do we leave a solely TIBC voice mail (whether they never picked up a call / picked up in the past affects this)?

Thanks,
Lawliet

Lawliet's picture

How would a TIBC voice mail look like too?
Since it doesn't have her response

Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

Weekdays are fair game for texting. Don't call weekdays during the day though, as even if she has off she's likely to be occupied doing something. Follow the recommended times, unless you're experimenting.

I would not text a girl anything a weekend night, especially not a "throwing the ball in your court" message... if she's at the point where she's kind of over you for now, you don't want to interrupt her partying with some cute guy to check a text, only to find it's from you and go, "Huff, THAT guy again... yeah, whatever." Better to do it during a time she's more likely to be neutral toward you.

I don't recommend you leave a "ball's in your court" voicemail. Do it via text; you can make sure you get the wording right, and she'll have the reminder sitting there in her phone whenever she goes, a month from now, "Whatever happened to Lawliet? Hmm, let me check... oh yeah, he said to text him when I'm free. Okay, let me text him that then."

Chase

Xander's picture

Hi Chase,
I have been waiting this article for years. If you remember me, I'm the guy with attainability problems. Before you wrote this article, I thought this things are the cause, and now I have official affirmation.
Can you believe that because of this I can never get a girl. I'm good looking guy, and I've been successful on college. I don't write this because I think look and post bachelor title will get me girls, but because I try to seduce them, and because of this qualities they don't like me. I'm not arrogant and have a lot of male friends. But girls don't like me, and wouldn't go on date with me to save their lives. Problem is that girls with lower ambitions wouldn't go with be because of attainability, and girls who are a bit ambitious also don't want, because they want someone less ambitious who they control and feel dominant around him. The biggest problem is my success at college, and my normal ambition to be good at my job and further education. So I can't be their boyfriend because I equally want to provide me and them, or their lover because girls here clever guys treat like they don't have a cock. Global crisis hit us and a lot of girls are in found provider mode, and they are too picky and only wants to date man who is completely same as they in all possible things. And as you know it's impossible, they find one provider and eventually marry him. I realized that being good at science is one way ticket to auto-rejection.
Reading your article I realized that in all world women want compatible man, but here it is more than dramatic. Those are modern times and I think that women should be more flexible.
My problem is because I tried everything I could and did't get results because of their ego. I know I shouldn't but I started to really hate women because of their ego who is bigger than Mount Everest.
At one point I gave up from seduction, but this article tells me that maybe there is a chance. Please tell me Chase are there more things I can do or change so I could get better results? If you know some psychological books that treat problems about ego please tell me. Is there something in seduction I should focus more? I focused on social calibration and got a lot of male friends, but women still don't like me because maybe I'm not calibrated enough, and for sure because they don't like anyone who has evan a little bit value than they. Every answers, comments and critics are welcome.
Thanks a lot,
Xander

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Xander-

If being too high value really is your problem, you simply need to focus on upping your attainability. Read these articles, apply them in earnest, and your results should quickly soar:

However, I suspect from reading your comment that the problem is that you see yourself as superior to most of the women you meet, and find it frustrating they do not recognize your superiority and yield to you. Seduction is a dance, and what makes a man successful in the academic arena does not necessarily translate to success picking up and dating women, any more than good grades in math class make a guy good at playing the violin or scoring football goals.

One of the problems of having advantages is you may begin to feel entitled to effortless results elsewhere… you walk up to a girl, think, “Hey, I’m pretty hot stuff… she ought to be all over me,” and when she isn’t, you feel miffed or confused.

The thing to realize about seduction is it is not about you or your paper credentials. It’s about her and how you make her feel. If you cannot make women feel anything, you will not do well with them. That’s why you see a lot of guys with big muscles dating fat women, and a lot of rich guys with stiff personalities and ugly girlfriends.

If I had to give you one piece of advice from reading your comment, it would be, “Stop caring about yourself.” YOU are irrelevant. You could be you, or an ugly construction worker, or a gorgeous billionaire playboy. Doesn’t matter who you are or what you do. All that matters is what you make her feel.

Improve your fundamentals, of course; but the focus of this to is giving her the right feelings. When she sees a man with excellent posture, even if he’s facially unattractive, she is affected much more powerfully than if she sees a good-looking man with average posture. When she speaks with an unambitious (or SUPER ambitious!) man who knows how to make her feel excited to speak with him, she feels electrified in a way she simply doesn’t speaking with a man of above average ambition but markedly average conversation.

Forget about yourself; you don’t matter. If you want to get her, learn to make her FEEL.

Then you can be good-looking, bad-looking, ambitious, unambitious, have a Bachelor’s, a Master’s, or be a high school dropout, and it will not matter. Your paper credentials are merely facts she can hang her emotions on once she feels them: “Oh, okay, he’s good looking and has a Bachelor’s. That must be why I like him.” The feelings are the only thing that really matter to her though.

Chase

Anonymous-Man's picture

Hello Chase,

I'm having weird thoughts and feelings.

I was wondering if you can make an article to help me get through this.
Right now I have moments when I think negatively about the past. I try so hard to keep busy, but thoughts enter my head a lot, even then.

What I mostly deal with now is thinking about revenge on those who have done me wrong and not doing things that I should have done growing up, such as sleeping with girls earlier and playing sports.

1. I regret that there were times where I should have been tougher and I am mad that I wasn't. I have had weak moments, but I stood up to a lot of people and fought back. But there were times when I didn't and wish I did so bad. I want to get revenge on those who I should have dealt with in the past. How should I handle this? I feel weak because of the times were I should of been tougher. I am better now than before, but when I think about what I used to be I feel weak in a sense. I want to get over the past and be strong 24/7.

2. Over and over again I keep getting mad at myself because I was so picky with girls and I should have just slept with girls when I was younger. I know age doesn't matter too much, but now I feel that since I'm getting older Idk what to do to sleep with girls. I feel that it's harder because of age, and I have so many doubts. I feel I can never fulfill what I could have done and can't think stop thinking about how I should have started early. I feel it is somewhat impossible.

3. I keep comparing myself to others no matter what. I never feel good enough. I feel I have to be the best in everything and it's depressing to be honest. I am sad that my lay count is low, I'm sad that I have less lay counts than a lot of people, and when I try to sleep with girls and fail, I feel it's impossible and that my lay count will always be low, I feel bad that I might not catch up or surpass them. What can I do to solve this?

I would appreciate an article about dealing with feelings like this. Think you could give me some tips in the mean time?

Thank you sir

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonymous-Man-

What’s up with changing your handle every so often… just trying to confuse me? :)

Revenge regret: use it. I’ve had guys deck me or whatnot and not fought back in the moment (because I thought I could get them kicked out of the club or whatever), then later regretted it. Every weekday morning I practice my kicks and punches, just like Bruce Lee recommends, and I just picture one of those guys. Makes training a lot more satisfying and you take it a lot more seriously too. My kicks and punches are probably a good 50% more powerful at this point than they were 2 years ago at full power, and I get to full power a lot more consistently now. Used to be I had to warm up to full force, yet now I can just explode a kick out like a mule.

Missed lay regret: again, use it. Go meet another girl just like the one you missed and shag the living daylights out of her. I’ve done this plenty of times, and it never stops feeling good. Eventually the regret is just completely gone because you end up shagging girls way cuter than the ones you missed out on. Plus, you get older, and those girls you “missed out on” get all old and wrinkly, while you keep sleeping with young girls. And that’s nice.

Comparing yourself: there are studies on this, and they all show that when you compare yourself to others and aren’t skilled yet, it just depresses you. Until you are “advanced” in anything, you should only be comparing your results today to your results before, not to other people. That’s the only way to accurately gauge your progress, too – the guy who goes from a free throw percentage of 50% to one of 65% feels like crap if he compares himself to Steve Nash, but if he sticks to comparing his performance today to his performance before, he gets to say, “Whoa – I’m actually getting better.” It’s impossible to go from Shaquille O’Neal to Steve Nash overnight with free throws; it takes time.

Chase

Anonymous-Man's picture

What do you do Chase when youre in a perfect relationship, but want to keep getting better with women and sleeping with other women for fun?
I don't want relationships with them, I just want to get my experience up and soil my wild oats. I don't want an open relationship nor break up a good thing. But I can't let time pass me by too long without doing this. Also how do you make it known to other girls without being an ads hole that you just want to sleep with them and that's it? That you don't want to make it a relationship at all without hurting their feelings?
I feel it would be hard to do because you have to take them on dates and deep dive etc.

Any advice for me?

Thank you

Jimbo's picture

Hi Chase!

"A big part of Casanova’s success as a lover of dignified European ladies was that he passed himself off as something of a vagrant, yet indubitably of roughly their social classes (thus, still within the bounds of acceptability)."

That's very interesting, man. Would you consider doing an article on Casanova's game? I think we could learn a lot from this guy. And an essay named, "Casanova's Game" would draw a lot of attention.

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