Should You Be Lovers… or Friends?


friends or loversWhile growing up, women always meant one thing to me: girlfriend material. Women were always potential lovers; never once did it slip into my mind that I could be friends with them.

It wasn’t until I started racking up lovers that I felt the need to slot women into particular roles in my life. I couldn’t (and didn’t) want to sleep with every woman that came into my life, because some women ended up becoming a bigger headache than they were worth as lovers.

However, I began to realize the importance and utility that a mutual friendship could produce. High status women are excellent for social fulfillment, preselection, and they can help you get a closer look at how women act on a daily basis.

Unfortunately, I ran into quite the conundrum. I would harmlessly flirt with women, only to find myself sleeping with them and having our friendships break down. Women would seek sex from me, and I would give it to them, thinking we could still be friends afterwards.

After all, it was just sex.

As I quickly began to realize, I was ruining potential friendships and potential lovers by flipping in between definite roles. The relationships were in some weird middle of the road status, and things would become awkward in a hurry when neither of us knew how to proceed.

What was the underlying problem for me?

I wasn’t defining our relationships roles from the outset. The perpetual chaos that ensues in this situation works against producing stable relationships and causes them to break down. I lost plenty of women because of my indecisiveness, and you could too if you don’t know where each woman belongs in your life.


The Ill-Defined Relationship

Couldn’t you just let things play out as they will, and not care about how women fit into your life?

Sure, if you enjoy endless drama and lack of satisfaction.

Most men and women go through life just doing what feels right. But what feels right now might not be the best solution later.

For example, sleeping with a high value girl who is always there for you may feel right when you’re both drunk and alone, but the next morning she’ll act rather awkward, and things will break down, because your relationship has lost its form – it’s undefined.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you could try and go backwards with a lover and relegate your roles to being just friends. But things will feel awkward, with you both knowing that you really wanted more; you wanted to move forward.

Defining roles in a relationship not only helps you avoid such scenarios, but it enables you to make your life a whole lot easier. Let me show you how.

As you may already know, women primarily fit people into three roles in their lives: lovers, providers, and friends. Men can be none, one, two, or perhaps even all of these.

The same reigns true for women in men’s lives – but men are typically quite adamant about providing for themselves, so women are primarily lovers and friends in their lives.

Typically, when you meet women, they are fitted into their roles. They may just be a lover, maybe a friend, or maybe both.

The issue that we’re focusing on right now is when you initially put women into either the friend category or the lover category and then you try and pull a reversal and place women in the other category, or perhaps both.

When you try to switch these roles, it just doesn’t work out.

A common example where men try and reverse these roles is when they find themselves falling for a female friend of theirs.

Maybe she dressed in an extremely sexy red dress recently, and applied the right amount of preselection, or maybe she has been attracted to you all this time and you’ve relegated her to the friend zone. The point is, you want to change roles.

But, you must stay strong from the outset of the relationship. Crossing barriers rarely yields useful results, as you’re trying to go back on a role that has been defined over months of experience with only one night of the alternative. Chaos ensues, and neither of you are quite happy with the way things panned out.

What’s a man to do to prevent such a scenario from occurring?

He must not only define her role quickly, but also stay vigilant about preserving that role.


Defining Roles – Friend or Lover?

The hardest part in this riddle is not in understanding that you’re better off with defining roles. That’s knowledge that can be quickly passed on.

The execution of deciding whether or not women should be your friend, your lover, or both, is a much more difficult task. This is because women so rarely fit into one role. They often have characteristics that could justify having them in either, or both.

friends or lovers

That’s why deciding these types of things typically comes down to understanding what you need most in your life.

If you’re like most men reading this website, you want to have more lovers. Girls who are friends are the least of your worries.

In addition to having women who are lovers, most guys want nothing more than a girlfriend, or a girl who is both a lover and a friend.

However, eventually, you come to the point where you aren’t at a loss for either of these roles, and you simply need to decide which women belong where.

No matter what the scenario is, it’s important to ask specific questions to test and screen women to see which role they fit into, if any. This all comes down to using the right questions to best identify and screen women for specific roles.


The Screening – What to Ask Her (and Yourself)

If you needed a refresher, or any type of formal definition of what a “friend” or a “lover” is, look no further than this article on what women want.

In order to properly understand how well each woman falls into each role on not only an emotional level, but on a logical level, each role must be processed by asking some questions about her both to yourself and to her.

To start off with, let’s ask some questions about who she is, also known as:

Her Personality

Ask yourself, is she…

  • Nice?
  • Easy to get?
  • Supportive?
  • Socially valuable?
  • Useful in some matter other than sex?
  • Good for preselection?
  • High social status?
  • Comfortable to be around?

As you may have guessed, her personality closely matches that of a friend.

Or, is she…

  • Sexually attractive?
  • Stimulating to be around?
  • Fun and exciting?
  • Unpredictable?
  • Affectionate?
  • Charming?
  • A challenge?

If you primarily answered yes to these questions, then she’s better fitted for being a lover.

The unfortunate thing about personality is that you often find these things out much later into a relationship. These, however, are the questions you must ask yourself to ensure that you made the right decision in the beginning.

Since personality traits are learned much later on in getting to know a girl, it is important to rely upon an active approach. You must screen her to obtain the knowledge you seek.

Questions to Screen With: Lover

  • Do you like to travel?
  • You seem like a girl who likes to toy with men, simply because it’s fun. Is that true?
  • Are you a challenging girl?
  • How often do you go out?
  • Are you always dressed so sexy?

Questions to Screen With: Friend

  • Would you rather be the hero, or the villain?
  • You seem like a good, reliable friend. Is that true?
  • Do you have a lot of social connections? You seem to know everybody here.

Of course, this list of questions to screen with is not exhaustive. Once you understand the personality traits of a woman, you can use any of the screening techniques above to seek out knowledge on whether or not she fits better in the role of lover or friend.

But what about the combination: the girlfriend?

Say, if you are looking for a girlfriend, or a girl who satisfies all of the above characteristics, how would you then proceed?

Quite easily: you actively screen and ask yourself whether or not she fits into both scenarios, in addition to screening for the typical traits that you’d find in a girlfriend, such as:

  • Having a good relationship history (doesn’t cheat or cause excessive drama)
  • Doesn’t have too many past lovers
  • Doesn’t have too many temptations (constantly partying, drinking, etc.)

As you can see, screening is the ultimate tool in understanding how to appropriately assess whether or not she belongs in either scenario. It all comes down to understanding what you want – only then you can get there.

In case there was any confusion: if she doesn’t pass any of the screens, then the best idea is to simply dump her from your life.

She offers little to no value for you if she is neither a good friend nor a good lover, and most guys can’t afford to take on a project and teach women how to provide value; that’s often a result of the will to change emanating from within, rather than a result of you convincing her that she needs to offer you value.

However, with girls who don’t pass, there is always the capacity for change.


What If Things Change?

In order to cement roles and avoid getting into less than ideal, ill-defined relationships, you must define her role early on with accuracy.

However, the scenario can pop up where things have changed, and she may be better suited to being a lover, or perhaps now she’d be better as a friend.

Is it alright to change then?

Unfortunately, no. Like always, it’s hard to change roles once they’ve already been set, and time doesn’t act in favor of changing things so easily.

The only scenario where such a thing can occur is when you didn’t enter into any type of relationship – perhaps she didn’t pass any of your initial screens, but when you meet her again a few months/years down the line she is absolutely exuding sexuality.

friends or lovers

Also, it is interesting to note that it is a possibility to go from friends to lovers. However, this is rare, and typically only happens if they were on the orbit of your social circle, not a full-fledged, emotionally connected friend.

That’s why we’re primarily focusing on developed relationships where you’ve already spent a decent amount of time with each other, as that is the point in which changing between roles isn’t easily accepted.

The roles feel cemented, and things will become broken if you try changing them once they’ve hardened.

Luckily, there are so many women out there that you can and will find a replacement. Many of my ill-defined relationships have broken down into sparse communication, and that’s most likely where they will rest: forever platonic, because I flipped between roles so often.

And, for each one that died, I replaced it with a new, stronger relationship.


Relationships without Headache

Once I got into the habit of defining roles, my relationships became much stronger, as everyone knew exactly what they were about. Friends became better friends, lovers became better lovers, and girlfriends became better girlfriends.

I have the sneaking suspicion that the reason most guys seek out purely girlfriends instead of friends and lovers is because they don’t try to separate the roles.

As a result, anytime they try to just be one thing, they end up switching halfway, creating such bad relationships. And the only time things ever work out with women is when they go after girlfriends, because they know precisely how to define this relationship, because it’s much easier for them to be either everything or nothing, instead of only satisfying one role.

But, by unlocking the ability to separate the two, you get a whole new type of relationship where you can involve many more people in your life, and thus unlock much more abundance and value. You not only get high value women as girlfriends, but those who typically would only fit into one role can fill the gaps.

More options for friends and lovers is always a plus in your life – especially if you didn’t have many before.

Ross

Related Articles from GirlsChase.com

Comments

Anonymous's picture

What if...?


Dear Ross,
Found this article right when I needed it most. I'm confused and I need some help please.
I have the problem of an ill-defined relationship with a girl I really care about. We both talk almost daily. And were very emotionally connected. The problem however is that I've already told her I want her more than a friend. I've expressed my feelings. She has admitted to feeling the same way about me but she is confused, lost and doesn't know what she wants. When we talk about our feelings, she tries to avoid the subject, and says friends for now.
I don't know how to feel. When I'm into her, I have little satisfaction knowing I'll get her to be my girl, when I act like I don't give a sh*t anymore she drops the feelings bomb on me ever so smoothly that I beg to wonder whether I flip roles again and maker her my lover in case there's that chance.
What would be the right thing to do? I really like her, but I can't take all that drama. We both deserve peace at the end of the day. Should I work to make her my lover or keep her as a good friend?
P.s. The screening tests, she tested positive for more friends indicators than the lover indicators but to be honest I want her as both right now.

Kindly if you guys could help a young brother out here that would be great.
Cheers!

Ross Leon's picture

Speed, Investment, and Lack of Role Definition

Author

Anon,

The primary reason why guys get stuck in such an awkward relationship is because they absolutely fail to do a few things correctly:

1) They simply don't move fast enough to define their role as a "lover"
2) They invest a lot in the girl, which indicates that they are chasing after her.
3) They become emotionally attached, or clingy, further communicating lack of experience and chasing.

She has slotted you into a friend category because of the above. The only way to escape such a zone is to move faster, become her lover, invest less in her, and be less emotionally attached. This relies a lot on having actual experiences where you practice moving faster, and eventually care less to the point where you're not clingy anymore, but it's a good idea to start working on these mindsets now.

May be too late for this situation, but I've seen crazier things happen. Just keep in mind that if she doesn't fit into your role of friend/lover and you find yourself increasingly investing too much in her, then it's a great idea to go out and get more options which will automatically decrease the amount of investment you are placing in her.

Anonymous's picture

Valid points...


Thanks for your input but tbh it's not all as simple as that... I will keep your breakdown in mind but after reading Chase's excellent view points on attraction and such before talking to her I thought I was doing it right. Goes to show that even if guidance is present, experience is the ultimate teacher.

Thanks for taking the time out to reply.

Chase Amante, the legend, and all the rest, keep doing what you're doing but please gather some centrally directed articles. There are contradictions not among authors but even among the same authors.

Ross Leon's picture

Love Options

Author

Anon,

When a girl keeps you hanging around, like so,

"when I act like I don't give a sh*t anymore she drops the feelings bomb on me ever so smoothly that I beg to wonder whether I flip roles again and maker her my lover in case there's that chance."

She's aiming to provide you with enough hope and happiness that you stick around as a love option, even though you're just a friend. She's still firmly in power, and hell, she may be attracted, but the relationship won't develop into anything further because you are firmly placed in the friend zone.

To avoid getting in such a predicament, follow the suggestions I provided above - those will keep you out of the friend/potential boyfriend if nothing else works out zone, because you won't be chasing her and you won't be waiting around for her approval for a relationship - she'll be chasing after yours.

Marty's picture

Experience


Ross:

What's wrong with past lovers??

I like classy, sophisticated women who look like they know what they're doing. Hard to get that way without having a portfolio of past lovers, no?

-Marty

Ross Leon's picture

Amount of Lovers

Author

Hey Marty,

The nuances of why too many past lovers is a negative comes from the linked article - which has some scientific studies that show strong correlations between amount of past lovers and infidelity in a relationship.

That doesn't mean you can't have these girls in your life, but you'd be better off having them as lovers or perhaps even have an open relationship with them. Open relationships definitely work better with these women, as a relationship won't hold them back from engaging in sex with other opportunities as the relationship wears on.

CHAZ's picture

CONTRADICTIONS


quote: "When you try to switch these roles, it just doesn’t work out."
This goes against what Chase Amante has recurrently taught us all.
He estblished the notion that as a "lover" one could easily move to the provider and/or friend status, mainly because you already slept with the giril!.
.
So what's up with the contradicting inconsistencies?
This is what happens when you let more than one voice communicate their knowledge. Too many cooks in the kitchen = no clear direction.
.

Zac's picture

If you didn't notice.


CHAZ,

Ross actually noted this, too.

"As I quickly began to realize, I was ruining potential friendships and potential lovers by flipping in between definite roles. The relationships were in some weird middle of the road status, and things would become awkward in a hurry when neither of us knew how to proceed."

The problem with many men is that they don't know what they doing and they constantly flip roles like Asians flip burgers on the market!. Like me, i, too constantly flip between roles of lover, provider and friends. Women can't read that, and won't buy into that long term.

and this actually hurts women afterawhile.

Zac

Ross Leon's picture

Hey Chaz, I can definitely

Author

Hey Chaz, I can definitely understand the frustration of contradictory statements. Feels like you don't know what to do when you're being fed a bunch of different viewpoints.

In regards to Chase's statement, it largely depends on how long roles take to cement themselves, based on the different windows for possibility.

The window of attraction, which dictates becoming a lover, is extremely short.

Meanwhile, the window for becoming a friend is much longer, which is why established lovers can become friends with women after sleeping with them.

Thus, become her lover quickly and then become her friend later on still works, just as long as you do so within the bounds of time to avoid such a relationship being defined as one thing or another. The time that windows are open largely differs between women, and you'll even find that some of the more experienced women that you sleep with never really close the door on friendship.

Hope that cleared things up. The inability to change roles stems from a relationship that's already well-defined, rather than one that is still up in the air.

Jason33's picture

How about FWB?


Hey Ross,
Great article. It was insightful and It really makes sense why some of my past relationships died out after awhile. But I had one question that boggled my mind. You mentioned that the combination of a lover and a friend is a girlfriend which of course is very logical, but what is a woman that fits the friends with benefits category? I would assume she also fits the role of a friend and indeed a lover so does a woman labeled under "Friends With Benefits" also goes through the same screening process as a potential girlfriend? Or is it the commitment of an exclusive relationship that separates the two? Your thoughts?

Jason

Ross Leon's picture

FWB = Extended Lover

Author

Thanks for reading Jason. Great question on your part.

In my opinion, the friends with benefits is the typical lover relationship that lasts longer.

In articles that talk about the nuances of friends with benefits, you'll notice the common theme that such a relationship should focus squarely around only spending time with each other every now and then in order to keep the relationship purely about sex, rather than developing into a relationship. If you're constantly hanging around a FWB it will turn into more of a committed relationship as a result of the time and investment the two of you are putting into each other.

The screening process for a FWB could be simply that of a lover, but if you wanted to develop a relationship outside of sex (is say, she passes friend screens), then you can do so. Though that feels a lot like the path to a girlfriend/committed relationship, and could very well have you end up there, but if you're happy it would most likely develop into a beneficial relationship.
-

Nunclea's picture

Chase was looking at what


Chase was looking at what works for women, not men as Ross is, so the 2 aren't directly comparable.

Even so Chase does in fact say that it is usually difficult to change the role a woman has in mind for you - from friend to lover or provider to lover.

He did say that it is easy to change from the role of lover to provider (boyfriend) if you want. All he was effectively saying there is don't put women on a pedestal and move fast with them regardless of whether you want short or long term.

Ross Leon's picture

You Got It

Author

Looks like you've got it Nunclea. Thanks for reading!

Nunclea's picture

No problem, thanks for all


No problem, thanks for all the great advice.

Ben's picture

im stuck


theres this one girl I work next to. we talk ALL THE TIME and shes giving me all the signs. she flashes her palm, always licking her lips, plays with her bracelets and strokes her arm. but my problem is that im a bad closer. and I can be the nice guy. she has this other guy who she keeps breaking up with but at the same time cant leave. they always get back together only to break up the next week. I told her that I wanted her to be with me for a night and she told me she cant just yet and that she'll let me know when she's ready. what should I do to get closer to the ultimate goal. I definitely dont want this to go to the friend zone, and I dont want to bore her or lose her interest. I feel like im so close to getting her. I definitely wouldn't mind being her bf or if worse comes to worse I don't mind being the guy on the side. I just feel like im stuck, and shes showing me all the right signs including: knee always pointing towards me, exposed neck as we speak, we always catch each other's eye, big smiles. she seems a little shy or timid at times tho. seems like she wants to get up close to me but not yet. she'll show me things from her phone but she wont actually get too too close. I do have her number, I verified it yesterday lol. had to make sure it was the right number....I need to know what else to do at this point.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • HTML tags will be transformed to conform to HTML standards.
  • You may insert videos with [video:URL]

More information about formatting options

Image CAPTCHA
Enter the characters shown in the image.