Stop Saying (and Doing) Things That Lose You Girls


Marty, a GC member, commented on my post on “The 7 Key Qualities in Men Woman Want”:

Hello Colt,

This is a great reminder, and very useful checklist, of seven important aspects of being a better man in general, as well as more attractive to women! Thank you.

I'd be the last person to wish to offer constructive feedback, but I wondered if you could go into a little more detail on #4? Unlike for the other six qualities, there are no cross-referencing links to articles, and your use of the phrase "get it" borders on glibness—who knows what informative treasures might lurk between those two short words? ☺

A brief description of the "subtext" you speak about would be immensely helpful!

Thanks again,

Marty

This is a really important comment. This subtext that Marty references is extremely important for success with women, and unfortunately, it’s something that not a lot of guys get right. They pay too much attention to their surface level actions and not what’s occurring below the surface.

lose girls

Imagine: you see a cute girl across the room who is definitely eyeing you. She’s smiling, she’s looking over and she’s just waiting for you to come over and enter her world. So you walk over with that perfect line simmering in your head and you deliver it.

And it flops. She gives you a look of disappointment and turns away, or she mentions how she has to go find her friend and runs off.

Losing a girl because you said or did the wrong thing at any point in an interaction can be such a frustrating and dumbfounding feeling. So today I’m going to talk about how to prevent yourself from saying and doing the things that lose you girls and how to really pay attention to subtext, which is what girls are really paying attention to.

What I’m going to lay out may surprise you a bit, but I promise it’ll be worth it.


Breaking the Spell

When you first hear about game or the seduction world, you really feel like you’ve stumbled onto some new, clandestine secret society – a group of sentinels that can see beyond the illusion of what most people think reality is and break down the real ins and outs of social dynamics.

And you get really excited. You want to jump in as quickly as possible, so you start soaking in everything that you see and read. You want to use the moves, the lines, and everything else that you think will quickly bring women into your life (and your bed).

And then you go out, and start throwing down everything you’ve learned – expecting to have a beautiful woman in your bed by nightfall. And then it doesn’t happen. You go home empty handed. And you can’t help but wonder what happened. Maybe you didn’t say the line right? Maybe you forgot the order of the moves?

You go back and review what you learned. You rehash the lines and you re-practice the moves in front of the mirror. And… you still get the same results – or lack thereof.

I did this exact same thing. I read a few tips and tricks, and then rushed into social interactions with vigor and excitement ready to bring home any woman I wanted, but then would go home disappointed after usually not even getting close to bringing a girl home. And through these initial experiences I learned the lesson that anyone who works through actually improving their skills with women learns.

With the experienced guys, it’s not what they actually say or do, but how they say or do it.


lose girls

The age-old question in the seduction world is: does what you say to a girl matter?

In all truth, the simple answer is: it depends. On what, you may ask? It depends on your experience. Your actual experience in the field and actually talking to women will determine whether or not what you say matters.

But why?


Subtext

Women are absolute masters of subtext. Regardless of what you’re actually saying on a logical level, there is always an entirely different conversation occurring on an emotional level. This is why women can deeply insult each other face-to-face while still laughing and smiling (see: my last article, on girl fights).

In terms of how women interact with strong men, understanding this sub-surface level first comes from understanding that women really do love sex. But, I can’t really blame men who still have troubling accepting this fact. They’ve grown up under the Madonna/whore paradigm and have come to believe that a girl is either a chaste angel or a slut. And because of that fact, they hide all of their sexual feelings for women for fear of “offending” them or otherwise turning them off.

So, the men who have the most success with women really stand out because they understand that women are just as sexual (and in certain ways even more sexual) than men.

The first step to understanding subtext, then, is to understand the true nature of females. And with this understanding that women are incredibly sexual, it’s important to note that when you are talking to a woman you want to have sex with, you should interact with her the way a strong man would interact with a sexy woman that he wants to have sex with.

lose girls

The mistake that too many guys make is that they just look for reactions. They start asking a girl about her coat or her purse, and take the fact that she is actually responding to them as a sign of the fact that she must be interested in them sexually and romantically. But this is simply not the case. If you don’t set the precedent of having a sexual relationship (or at least desire) for a girl, she will just get creeped out if you try to make a move out of nowhere.


Beginners

If you’re a beginner, you should absolutely pay attention to what you’re saying. This is because if you don’t have the feeling and undertones of your conversational abilities down pat, then women will be listening to what you’re saying on a logical level. And if you’re saying mundane, run-of-the-mill statements, she will just peg you as being just like every other guy and completely write you off.

But if you’re talking about things that are sexual, or at the very least, interesting, she will be more likely to engage you and invest in you.

That’s why all of the writers on this site return to fundamentals over and over again. Their importance cannot be stressed enough. You’ll never learn how to communicate with subtext if you don’t get your fundamentals absolutely tight.

And once you tighten your fundamentals, you must work on:

  • Mastering touch. When you don’t have much experience, it’s going to be nearly impossible to build large amounts of attraction without touching girls. So learn to get comfortable with all types of touch and with being a lot more physical with girls.

  • Making conversations sexual. If you’re a beginner, there’s no way you’re going to make a girl want to have sex with you by asking her how many bell peppers she’s buying or getting her to tell you about the trip her sister just took. So get sexual.

    Make a sexual joke, tell a sex story or do what I used to do when I wanted to be overt: ask her a hypothetical question like “If you were hooking up with a guy and learned that he was really into S&M, how would you react?” Hypotheticals are a great way to get sexual conversation going very quickly while still keeping it light and making her feel like she’s contributing to a fruitful discussion.

  • Making conversations out of the ordinary. A conversation doesn’t have to be sexual throughout, but it should definitely be interesting. Don’t ask questions in the same mundane way that everyone else does. Play around with it. Ask her how she feels about certain topics. Ask her the most important 8 questions. Use assumptions to build attraction. Keep her engaged and on her toes to set a good foundation for yourself.

  • Amplifying your sexy vibe. Amplify your sexy vibe with a sexy walk, strong fashion, good eye contact, pregnant pauses, and being a bit slower and more deliberate in the way you move and the things that you do. Eventually girls will just start to tell you (or better yet each other) that you’re just a sexy man.

  • Not being logical. Stop being so damn logical. I know it’s hard because we’re men and we love to reason and we love things to follow a nice linear progression. But, women don’t follow linear progressions. Women want to be taken on a winding journey of emotions and stories with threads that are constantly opening and closing, cutting and amplifying, while being touched and smiling and feeling sexual undertones. In short, men want results – but women want an experience.

    Yet so many guys walk up to a girl and starting giving her their resume. “I work at X job, I live in X place, I love my family, I travel twice a year… ” and expect that a girl is going to look at him, pull out her checklist, vet his qualifications, and then drag him into the bedroom. But that’s not how it works! And that’s why so many quality, generous, high-value men don’t get as many women as they probably should be getting. They’re focusing on giving her a list of specs that show why they should have sex with them, instead of inspiring the emotions that compel women to want to take a man home. That’s also why seemingly low-value men get so many women. They’re brazen and don’t really care to qualify themselves to girls. Which in turn makes girls massively attractive.

    So learn how to communicate with women on their terms. Instead of logic, focus on creating:

  • Strong emotions. Women are beings of feeling. Say that as many times to yourself as you need in order to get it ingrained in your head. They want to feel strong emotions. And the funny thing is it doesn’t always need to be a positive emotion they feel. This is why girls are so attracted to assholes. Assholes make girls feel really strongly toward them. Then the girl starts thinking about him more, then she wants more of that emotional feedback, then she becomes attracted, and then she ends up in bed with them.

    Strong emotions are the reason why push-pull is so effective (and why you should always be using it). Taking a girl on a ride where one minute she’s annoyed with you and the next she’s enamored with you will trigger more points of attraction than you can imagine. But so many guys are too scared to evoke strong emotions. They’re too concerned with everyone liking them instead of concerning themselves with giving girls what they actually want.

In terms of don’ts, you should really focus on:

  • Not being an orbiter. You should make your intentions clear in the beginning. It’ll save you a lot of trouble and save her a lot of confusion. If she doesn’t want you as a lover, then next her and move on. If there’s a mutual attraction but she’s already in your friend circle, use social circle game or spend less time with her so you can reestablish yourself in the lover role.

  • Not going out of your way to be helpful. Some men are simply way too helpful with women – especially if the girl is really attractive. Being helpful is a great way to get a discounted one-way ticket to the friend zone. You become too valuable to the girl and she slightly loses respect for you due to your capitulation. So be minimally helpful if it’s low-effort, but don’t be afraid to say no.

  • Not being too nice. If you’re a frequent reader of this site, this point should go without saying. Girls don’t like nice guys. And that’s not even an opinion that’s only based on experience, it’s also a statement based on polling some of the best women who have ever walked into my life. They have – without exception – said that girls want a guy who is a challenge, who is strong, and who is considerate, but not too nice.

  • Not apologizing for things you say or do. If you genuinely offend someone that you shouldn’t have or are definitely in the wrong on an issue, then you should apologize. But other than that, stop apologizing for being yourself and taking action. Too many men are worried about what other people think instead of just being themselves and improving. So start taking action and stop worrying so much about what other people think.

  • Not looking for her approval or reaction in general. You’re not a dog; so stop doing things to get her to smile and clap at you. It’s not about getting her to reward you; it’s about giving her what she wants (love and sex) and learning to be the prize yourself.


Intermediates and Masters

Once you’re an intermediate and especially a master (or close), what you say absolutely does not matter; because at this point, you should just be focusing on the vibe that you are creating in an interaction.

In any interaction with a girl, there are always those two conversations happening at the same time. There’s the surface level conversation with the actual words that you’re using, and there’s the subtext conversation where the actual truths are being communicated.

lose girls

That’s why you can talk about a broken copier and still get a girl turned on. So focus on creating strong emotions and using strong under-the-surface communication. If you focus on the subtext, you will realize what you say does not matter – AT ALL. I’ve opened girls talking about cartoons or Gangnam style. I’ve pulled girls in the midst of conversations about beans or Justin Bieber.

All that matters is what you’re not saying.


Failure and Experimentation

Despite the fact that they are told that anything can be used if said with the right energy, a lot of men are still under the impression that there are only limited things that you can say or do to get a girl. But because of subtext, you can literally say anything. It’s not only that you can say anything, but you can and should experiment with the things that you say and do. Here’s why:

  1. Experimentation gives you new points of reference for future unfamiliar situations

  2. It keeps you from getting burned out

  3. It teaches you that failure is a necessary part of seduction and life

  4. It forces you to step out of your comfort zone and keep improving

  5. It keeps you natural and unscripted

  • New points of reference. A lot of the “lines” or tactics that experienced men use came about because at one point in time someone decided to experiment with something. Someone tried to go off the beaten path and ask a question or use a move just because they wanted the feedback and wanted to see what would happen. And as the old saying goes: fortune favors the bold.

  • Preventing burnout. And that’s a big part of the fun of interacting with and seducing women. If you did the same thing over and over again (with the exact same energy) you would likely get the same feedback loop over and over again. And even if you were consistently successful, you would eventually get bored or burnt out. So changing your style up helps to keep you fresh and excited for new interactions.

  • Accepting failure. When you fail with a particular girl, sometimes there was a problem in your execution – maybe you missed escalation windows or didn’t move fast enough. It’s important to reflect on your various experiences and see where you might be hitting a sticking point. But it’s just as important to get yourself to fail in new ways. What I mean is that if you notice yourself hitting a sticking point, sometimes just acknowledging it and making a slight tweak isn’t enough. So sometimes you have to do something completely different just to get a new reference point.

  • Stepping out of your comfort zone. In my case, a big sticking point was getting thrown into the friend zone far too often for my liking when I first started out. Sometimes I tried to get around it by touching girls a bit more or trying to be more flirtatious with my eye contact. Yet, the sticking point remained. So I knew that I had to do something drastically different in order to get new points of reference. So I went through a period where I would just launch into sex stories very early in an interaction, or use a manhandle kiss or do whatever else I could to spike the sexual tension as much as possible.

    Did I have instances that backfired? Absolutely. Did I have others that surprised me with their effectiveness? You better believe it. But whichever way it went, forcing myself to fail in new ways and actually vanquish my fear of rejection or judgment could not have been more valuable.

    And important instance of failure to watch out for – which isn’t discussed enough – is a lack of social momentum. You can try to use a move that you normally have success with, but have it completely fail because you didn’t build up enough momentum a half hour or hour prior to when you opened a certain girl.

    That’s why Chase developed his 2-venue method. It allows you to get warmed up in one place, experiment, and get your social momentum up so that when it is time to go full-throttle you’re on your game and ready to go when you go to a second place.

  • Staying Natural. Another danger of using canned lines is that you risk become robotic and scripted in your interactions. You actually risk losing the ability to interact in a free-flowing extemporaneous manner. A lot of the reason why naturals are so good with women is because they are so spontaneous. They ping off of the environment, they ping off of the girl’s emotions and they draw inspiration from within to just say or do the first thing that occurs to them.

    So getting in the habit of experimenting with your interactions is a great way to stay spontaneous and unscripted during the seduction process.


Having Fun

At the end of the day, seduction is supposed to be fun. Through all of the high and lows, through the messy logistics and the smooth pulls, it should all be enjoyable. And anyone who does it long enough will develop that love for women and realize that it’s all a game. Yet it’s funny how many guys take picking up women so incredibly seriously.

They think: “If I don’t get a girl tonight, I have no reason to be satisfied” and then brood to themselves if things don’t turn out. But the key is to relax and not take yourself so seriously! Enjoy the process and just try to have a good time when you go out and meet women. If you’re just in it to stay curious, learn, flirt and try to pull a girl home without being attached to the outcome, women will feel that vibe and will gravitate toward you.

So have fun with it. Otherwise, what’s the point?


The Journey

It’s funny that so often in a man’s life, once you start doing something, the actual activity you do becomes less and less important, and the journey you embark on as a man and active life agent starts to take center stage.

“The Game” is no different. Some guys get into it because a girl really broke their heart (like me). Some guys get into because they couldn’t stop thinking about that one girl. Some guys get into it because they want to prove to themselves that they are worthy of sleeping with perfect 10s. Some guys get into it because they want to prove to someone that they are attractive and well-liked.

There are so many reasons why people choose to improve their skills with women. But after a while… you realize that it’s not about the women at all. That’s really what I mean when I occasionally say that women should not be the sole focus in your life. The cool thing about improving your seduction and social skills is tracking the unique experiences. It’s lying down in bed at 3 am with a stupid grin on your face because you tried to pull a girl through the most absurd logistics or you experimented with a new line in a hectic club.

It’s realizing that at some point in your life, you may have been scared, or bitter, or depressed, or in victim mentality or in whatever other negative state you may have found yourself in. But, at some point in time, you decided to take charge of your life and be the captain of your own ship.

And once you realize that you’ve embarked on that journey, it doesn’t matter what happens with a particular girl or another. She’s not that special – or special at all. What matters is looking at the man you started out as, and seeing the man you’ve become.

That’s the journey. And that’s the point when you really start to love women and love life. And that’s when the words that come out of your mouth in a particular instance of flirting have absolutely no importance.

What’s important… is the energy and being of the man uttering them.

Carpe diem,

Colt

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Comments

Spirit's picture

Awesome Read


This article came at a perfect time for me. I'm just starting out and the deep diving/conversations are going well but I've definitely noticed the interactions aren't as sexual as they should be, and you just gave me exactly the list that I needed-great stuff bro!

Colt Williams's picture

Timing

Author

Spirit,

I'd rather in a situation at the right time over having the right thing to say. So much of life is timing, so that makes me glad to hear!

Anonymous's picture

I so agree with your closing


I so agree with your closing paragraphs. I got into it because I am trying my hand at entrepreneurship. I am still at the very beginning stages of trying to make my business take off and I realized I still have a lot to learn. I also am coming to terms very quickly that I can expect to experience failure many times as I currently am doing but the important thing is to go from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

I used to be terrified of approaching girls and because of this shift in mindset I have adopted with my business, I slowly becoming less rejection-adverse and outcome-independent. There was a night not too long ago where I approached ten girls and was shot down by every one of them. This may sound like a total failure in the eyes of the slightly less novice but for me it was huge. I realized that night I didn't die from rejection.

And I also had a stupid grin as I lay in bed that night, contemplating the evening's events.

Colt Williams's picture

Failure

Author

Anon,

It's all about understanding that failure is many ways more valuable than success. And those 10 rejections are valuable -- they increased your outcome independence and help you to hone your skills. I'm glad that you've made the shift to appreciating the journey. Welcome brother.

-Colt

Spirit's picture

Question


One thing I can't quite reconcile - you say under Don't be an orbiter that you should state your intentions early on-yet how to do this while remaining a challenge and building intrigue?

Colt Williams's picture

Intentions

Author

Spirit,

You don't have to say outright "I want to seduce you!" But you should be making sexual jokes and show her that you are man who is not going to talk to her platonically. You can still do that while still framing and challenging her.

-Colt

340Breeze's picture

Gaining more experience


Wonderful article. It really synthesizes many of the component mentalities that a man will gain and use during his journey toward mastery. Important piece. Especially because of the subtext phenomenon. Subtext is something that is incredibly important but isn't something taught in school. Reading between the lines and inferring what's going on is incredibly important if you want to know how to act in various situations. It's not like girls typically advertise their needs/wants in logical fashion. Many times, they send their signals by implying with body language, choosing certain words very carefully, etc. Sometimes girls even seem deliberately decline your request, but if you look into their eyes you can tell they're open to the idea...but they're just 'being difficult.'

Anyway, I'm nowhere near a master yet, but I still recognize the patterns when I see them and act on them. As I approach mastery, I've naturally come to treat every new woman as someone unique, like a blank canvas in which I can create something beautiful if she wants it. I never really know exactly what to expect, nor exactly what I will say and/do until it's time to say it. There are simply too many variables, too many potential responses. It's kind of like one big experiment with these girls. Try a and see if b will happen. If c happens instead then try d. And if nothing works, who cares?

I guess the panoply of unknown responses is the challenge, and what makes it all fun...how to improvise and to pull things off. I usually don't get bored and auto-reject (unless she's really boring or acting superior/aloof rude or just not into seduction at all). As I gain more experience, my initial expectations of what women should/shouldn't do for me have gone way way down. I don't know if I really expect anything specific anymore. If she feels attraction for me, great. If she doesn't then oh well, I tried. As I gain more experience, my entitlement mentality has faded alot. With the help of girlschase, I've realized that I have a job to do if I expect to reap the benefits of women responding well to me. I guess this is the ultimate reward...to know that hard work and understanding simply makes it easier to operate. Confidence emerges as side effect.

But what's unsettling to me though is that you all have said here on girlschase before that girls, more so than men, tend to be masters of the social arts because they have so much experience in socializing and dealing with/talking about their feelings. As I approach mastery in socializing with women, my entitlement mentality has gone down, and I'm much more forgiving of 'mistakes.' Maybe too forgiving, but I guess I always realized that no one is perfect. This mental model is just part of the culture of where I'm from. And it seems like a lot of guys who begin to master seduction operate the same way too. So why don't alot of girls, who tend to be more of the 'masters' of socializing, cut guys more slack, instead of seemingly auto-rejecting immediately following a 'mistake'?

As a beginner, when you attach strong emotions for a new woman (who hasn't yet invested in you to even deserve such emotions), it's disheartening when you unwittingly make a mistake with her, and it's game over, time go play with some other woman. This response seems kinda intolerant to me, and maybe this is why beginners get so confused and bitter...because they wouldn't treat the women they like in the same way; auto-rejecting them/flaking on seemingly a whim. Obviously as you gain more experience, improve your fundamentals and gain preselection, and as a result you increase your abundance mentality, auto-rejection plays less of a role to you; either you avoid causing it to occur in the first place, or you just don't care.

But can you shed some light on why some girls seem to be like this? Extremely intolerant of mistakes? Can it be that the in-demand women are so inundated by male attention, and since they can't spend time with all the men that ping them, they in-turn develop a harsh process of elimination? Like what is their rationale for seemingly harsh, unpredictable, and intolerant auto-rejection? I don't understand it, since as I gain more experience, I auto-reject less than I used to, and I thought women were much more experienced socializers...

Cheers,

340Breeze.

Colt Williams's picture

Unforgiving Women

Author

340Breeze,

I think that a multitude of girls have scores of men trying to get in their pants. Especially those girls who tend to frequent bars and other night venues. I don't think that they deny the men with any malicious intent. But it's like a high-value sports player fielding a lot of offers. You have no qualms with the people pitching lower offers, but you're going to disregard them if the high-value offers come into play.

And it's funny that it's the exact same way once you get an abundance of women. Some women are sweet, but you simply aren't interested in them for time/attractiveness reasons, so you just disregard their advances. So yes, it's a learning experience on how to make a more powerful impression on women so that they don't just disregard you right off the bat.

Hope that helps to clear things up.

-Colt

Anonymous's picture

In competition with friend for girl and I have to cancel a date.


Hey,
So a friend and I are competing for this girl. We are going about it very civilized and adultlike. Anyway, I was meant to have a date with her this friday and he was meant to have a date with her next monday. I have better skills with women than my friend, but I just realized that I have a flight to another state that evening and i'm getting back monday night. I am going to have to reschedule to next friday, because she leaves the country on the 26. I was wondering what I should text her to reschedule without sounding desperate? Also, will it hurt my chances if he's already met with her. He plans on hooking up with her, but I don't think she'll let him. I have no idea though. Any advice?

Colt Williams's picture

Competition

Author

Anon,

I really apologize for the late response. I hope it all worked out with the girl. I would've just been chill in the text and emphasized in a joking way that you're just "such a busy man" and that you have to reschedule with her. The friend going out with her would've been irrelevant in my mind. Especially if she's leaving. But I do hope that it all turned out for you.

Cheers,

Colt

Allen's picture

Came at the best time for me


So I started reading the intro to this article on the bus until I noticed a beautiful girl also on the bus who was falling asleep. There is something so sexy and elegant, yet innocent about a hot girl sleeping. I could imagine grabbing her hair and kissing her, or her performing oral sex on me as I watched her lay her head back, eyes toward the ceiling. We got off at the same stop where I was hoping to talk to her. We came to a stop light which was red but she changed direction just as I approached but hovered in my area at her green light. She was sending me an approach invitation. It was the perfect opportunity and I hesitated, then she quickly walked away. We came to the same bus stop and again, I missed another opportunity out of fear and she decided to walk.

As anyone reading this can tell, I have approach anxiety. I'm completely new to picking up women off the street as well. I've studied multiple articles here but haven't made many approaches out of fear. Wondering what to say, how to say it, what the girl will think, even what people around me will think. I got home feeling down and said to myself this has got to stop. I'm missing way too many extremely easy opportunities and probably tons of amazing women because of fear. I've improved my fundamentals to attract women but let it all go to waste because of hesitation. I've read all about the devil may care attitude but I haven't ingrained it into my mind and my actions yet.

That's why the closure to your article really hit home to me, Colt. The times I've taken action and failed felt good, because I was improving. The game is really all about myself, about the journey like you mentioned. I enjoy women and I enjoy just conversing with them and making them smile as much as having sex with them. In the end, its all fun and experience. Anyone who lets fear hold them back like I do with myself is victimizing themselves. I've absolutely had enough of not taking action, and thanks to your article I'm just going to go enjoy myself and stop taking this too seriously.

Fortune favours the bold.

Thanks, Colt

Colt Williams's picture

Fortune

Author

Allen,

I was so very happy to read all of that. Fortune does indeed favor the bold. As long as you keep progressing you'll be amazed to see how far you've come in a few months and a few years. Keep walking.

-Colt

Kuro's picture

Thanks


Thanks for the article Colt.

I used to do the same thing every time... and got friend zoned every single time. I began trying new things a few months ago and I've accidentally made a few women hate me, but it beats being friend zoned. At least with this I'm learning something... and I'm finding I actually am having a better experience with women overall.

Also, that last part of your article is so true for me. You see there was this girl I really liked, but she never reciprocated how I felt. So like an idiot I let her trap me in the friend zone for years... all the while she slept with guys that knew what they were doing.

Of course I do want to be successful with women, but what really got me wanting to learn seduction is the way she always disrespected me. She acted like any remotely attractive girl was too good for me, including herself. So maybe it sounds stupid, but I want to improve my skills with women to show her - and everyone else - that I am desirable and I do deserve respect. And if I manage to turn things around so much she actually asks me out... I'll take great joy in rejecting her. ;)

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