Stop Saying (and Doing) Things That Lose You Girls
Marty, a GC member, commented on my post on “The 7 Key Qualities in Men Woman Want”:
This is a great reminder, and very useful checklist, of seven important aspects of being a better man in general, as well as more attractive to women! Thank you.
I'd be the last person to wish to offer constructive feedback, but I wondered if you could go into a little more detail on #4? Unlike for the other six qualities, there are no cross-referencing links to articles, and your use of the phrase "get it" borders on glibness—who knows what informative treasures might lurk between those two short words? ☺
A brief description of the "subtext" you speak about would be immensely helpful!
This is a really important comment. This subtext that Marty references is extremely important for success with women, and unfortunately, it’s something that not a lot of guys get right. They pay too much attention to their surface level actions and not what’s occurring below the surface.
Imagine: you see a cute girl across the room who is definitely eyeing you. She’s smiling, she’s looking over and she’s just waiting for you to come over and enter her world. So you walk over with that perfect line simmering in your head and you deliver it.
And it flops. She gives you a look of disappointment and turns away, or she mentions how she has to go find her friend and runs off.
Losing a girl because you said or did the wrong thing at any point in an interaction can be such a frustrating and dumbfounding feeling. So today I’m going to talk about how to prevent yourself from saying and doing the things that lose you girls and how to really pay attention to subtext, which is what girls are really paying attention to.
What I’m going to lay out may surprise you a bit, but I promise it’ll be worth it.
Breaking the Spell
When you first hear about game or the seduction world, you really feel like you’ve stumbled onto some new, clandestine secret society – a group of sentinels that can see beyond the illusion of what most people think reality is and break down the real ins and outs of social dynamics.
And you get really excited. You want to jump in as quickly as possible, so you start soaking in everything that you see and read. You want to use the moves, the lines, and everything else that you think will quickly bring women into your life (and your bed).
And then you go out, and start throwing down everything you’ve learned – expecting to have a beautiful woman in your bed by nightfall. And then it doesn’t happen. You go home empty handed. And you can’t help but wonder what happened. Maybe you didn’t say the line right? Maybe you forgot the order of the moves?
You go back and review what you learned. You rehash the lines and you re-practice the moves in front of the mirror. And… you still get the same results – or lack thereof.
I did this exact same thing. I read a few tips and tricks, and then rushed into social interactions with vigor and excitement ready to bring home any woman I wanted, but then would go home disappointed after usually not even getting close to bringing a girl home. And through these initial experiences I learned the lesson that anyone who works through actually improving their skills with women learns.
With the experienced guys, it’s not what they actually say or do, but how they say or do it.
The age-old question in the seduction world is: does what you say to a girl matter?
In all truth, the simple answer is: it depends. On what, you may ask? It depends on your experience. Your actual experience in the field and actually talking to women will determine whether or not what you say matters.
Women are absolute masters of subtext. Regardless of what you’re actually saying on a logical level, there is always an entirely different conversation occurring on an emotional level. This is why women can deeply insult each other face-to-face while still laughing and smiling (see: my last article, on girl fights).
In terms of how women interact with strong men, understanding this sub-surface level first comes from understanding that women really do love sex. But, I can’t really blame men who still have troubling accepting this fact. They’ve grown up under the Madonna/whore paradigm and have come to believe that a girl is either a chaste angel or a slut. And because of that fact, they hide all of their sexual feelings for women for fear of “offending” them or otherwise turning them off.
So, the men who have the most success with women really stand out because they understand that women are just as sexual (and in certain ways even more sexual) than men.
The first step to understanding subtext, then, is to understand the true nature of females. And with this understanding that women are incredibly sexual, it’s important to note that when you are talking to a woman you want to have sex with, you should interact with her the way a strong man would interact with a sexy woman that he wants to have sex with.
The mistake that too many guys make is that they just look for reactions. They start asking a girl about her coat or her purse, and take the fact that she is actually responding to them as a sign of the fact that she must be interested in them sexually and romantically. But this is simply not the case. If you don’t set the precedent of having a sexual relationship (or at least desire) for a girl, she will just get creeped out if you try to make a move out of nowhere.
If you’re a beginner, you should absolutely pay attention to what you’re saying. This is because if you don’t have the feeling and undertones of your conversational abilities down pat, then women will be listening to what you’re saying on a logical level. And if you’re saying mundane, run-of-the-mill statements, she will just peg you as being just like every other guy and completely write you off.
But if you’re talking about things that are sexual, or at the very least, interesting, she will be more likely to engage you and invest in you.
That’s why all of the writers on this site return to fundamentals over and over again. Their importance cannot be stressed enough. You’ll never learn how to communicate with subtext if you don’t get your fundamentals absolutely tight.
And once you tighten your fundamentals, you must work on:
Mastering touch. When you don’t have much experience, it’s going to be nearly impossible to build large amounts of attraction without touching girls. So learn to get comfortable with all types of touch and with being a lot more physical with girls.
Making conversations sexual. If you’re a beginner, there’s no way you’re going to make a girl want to have sex with you by asking her how many bell peppers she’s buying or getting her to tell you about the trip her sister just took. So get sexual.
Make a sexual joke, tell a sex story or do what I used to do when I wanted to be overt: ask her a hypothetical question like “If you were hooking up with a guy and learned that he was really into S&M, how would you react?” Hypotheticals are a great way to get sexual conversation going very quickly while still keeping it light and making her feel like she’s contributing to a fruitful discussion.
Making conversations out of the ordinary. A conversation doesn’t have to be sexual throughout, but it should definitely be interesting. Don’t ask questions in the same mundane way that everyone else does. Play around with it. Ask her how she feels about certain topics. Ask her the most important 8 questions. Use assumptions to build attraction. Keep her engaged and on her toes to set a good foundation for yourself.
Amplifying your sexy vibe. Amplify your sexy vibe with a sexy walk, strong fashion, good eye contact, pregnant pauses, and being a bit slower and more deliberate in the way you move and the things that you do. Eventually girls will just start to tell you (or better yet each other) that you’re just a sexy man.
Not being logical. Stop being so damn logical. I know it’s hard because we’re men and we love to reason and we love things to follow a nice linear progression. But, women don’t follow linear progressions. Women want to be taken on a winding journey of emotions and stories with threads that are constantly opening and closing, cutting and amplifying, while being touched and smiling and feeling sexual undertones. In short, men want results – but women want an experience.
Yet so many guys walk up to a girl and starting giving her their resume. “I work at X job, I live in X place, I love my family, I travel twice a year… ” and expect that a girl is going to look at him, pull out her checklist, vet his qualifications, and then drag him into the bedroom. But that’s not how it works! And that’s why so many quality, generous, high-value men don’t get as many women as they probably should be getting. They’re focusing on giving her a list of specs that show why they should have sex with them, instead of inspiring the emotions that compel women to want to take a man home. That’s also why seemingly low-value men get so many women. They’re brazen and don’t really care to qualify themselves to girls. Which in turn makes girls massively attractive.
So learn how to communicate with women on their terms. Instead of logic, focus on creating:
Strong emotions. Women are beings of feeling. Say that as many times to yourself as you need in order to get it ingrained in your head. They want to feel strong emotions. And the funny thing is it doesn’t always need to be a positive emotion they feel. This is why girls are so attracted to assholes. Assholes make girls feel really strongly toward them. Then the girl starts thinking about him more, then she wants more of that emotional feedback, then she becomes attracted, and then she ends up in bed with them.
Strong emotions are the reason why push-pull is so effective (and why you should always be using it). Taking a girl on a ride where one minute she’s annoyed with you and the next she’s enamored with you will trigger more points of attraction than you can imagine. But so many guys are too scared to evoke strong emotions. They’re too concerned with everyone liking them instead of concerning themselves with giving girls what they actually want.
In terms of don’ts, you should really focus on:
Not being an orbiter. You should make your intentions clear in the beginning. It’ll save you a lot of trouble and save her a lot of confusion. If she doesn’t want you as a lover, then next her and move on. If there’s a mutual attraction but she’s already in your friend circle, use social circle game or spend less time with her so you can reestablish yourself in the lover role.
Not going out of your way to be helpful. Some men are simply way too helpful with women – especially if the girl is really attractive. Being helpful is a great way to get a discounted one-way ticket to the friend zone. You become too valuable to the girl and she slightly loses respect for you due to your capitulation. So be minimally helpful if it’s low-effort, but don’t be afraid to say no.
Not being too nice. If you’re a frequent reader of this site, this point should go without saying. Girls don’t like nice guys. And that’s not even an opinion that’s only based on experience, it’s also a statement based on polling some of the best women who have ever walked into my life. They have – without exception – said that girls want a guy who is a challenge, who is strong, and who is considerate, but not too nice.
Not apologizing for things you say or do. If you genuinely offend someone that you shouldn’t have or are definitely in the wrong on an issue, then you should apologize. But other than that, stop apologizing for being yourself and taking action. Too many men are worried about what other people think instead of just being themselves and improving. So start taking action and stop worrying so much about what other people think.
Not looking for her approval or reaction in general. You’re not a dog; so stop doing things to get her to smile and clap at you. It’s not about getting her to reward you; it’s about giving her what she wants (love and sex) and learning to be the prize yourself.
Intermediates and Masters
Once you’re an intermediate and especially a master (or close), what you say absolutely does not matter; because at this point, you should just be focusing on the vibe that you are creating in an interaction.
In any interaction with a girl, there are always those two conversations happening at the same time. There’s the surface level conversation with the actual words that you’re using, and there’s the subtext conversation where the actual truths are being communicated.
That’s why you can talk about a broken copier and still get a girl turned on. So focus on creating strong emotions and using strong under-the-surface communication. If you focus on the subtext, you will realize what you say does not matter – AT ALL. I’ve opened girls talking about cartoons or Gangnam style. I’ve pulled girls in the midst of conversations about beans or Justin Bieber.
All that matters is what you’re not saying.
Failure and Experimentation
Despite the fact that they are told that anything can be used if said with the right energy, a lot of men are still under the impression that there are only limited things that you can say or do to get a girl. But because of subtext, you can literally say anything. It’s not only that you can say anything, but you can and should experiment with the things that you say and do. Here’s why:
Experimentation gives you new points of reference for future unfamiliar situations
It keeps you from getting burned out
It teaches you that failure is a necessary part of seduction and life
It forces you to step out of your comfort zone and keep improving
It keeps you natural and unscripted
New points of reference. A lot of the “lines” or tactics that experienced men use came about because at one point in time someone decided to experiment with something. Someone tried to go off the beaten path and ask a question or use a move just because they wanted the feedback and wanted to see what would happen. And as the old saying goes: fortune favors the bold.
Preventing burnout. And that’s a big part of the fun of interacting with and seducing women. If you did the same thing over and over again (with the exact same energy) you would likely get the same feedback loop over and over again. And even if you were consistently successful, you would eventually get bored or burnt out. So changing your style up helps to keep you fresh and excited for new interactions.
Accepting failure. When you fail with a particular girl, sometimes there was a problem in your execution – maybe you missed escalation windows or didn’t move fast enough. It’s important to reflect on your various experiences and see where you might be hitting a sticking point. But it’s just as important to get yourself to fail in new ways. What I mean is that if you notice yourself hitting a sticking point, sometimes just acknowledging it and making a slight tweak isn’t enough. So sometimes you have to do something completely different just to get a new reference point.
Stepping out of your comfort zone. In my case, a big sticking point was getting thrown into the friend zone far too often for my liking when I first started out. Sometimes I tried to get around it by touching girls a bit more or trying to be more flirtatious with my eye contact. Yet, the sticking point remained. So I knew that I had to do something drastically different in order to get new points of reference. So I went through a period where I would just launch into sex stories very early in an interaction, or use a manhandle kiss or do whatever else I could to spike the sexual tension as much as possible.
Did I have instances that backfired? Absolutely. Did I have others that surprised me with their effectiveness? You better believe it. But whichever way it went, forcing myself to fail in new ways and actually vanquish my fear of rejection or judgment could not have been more valuable.
And important instance of failure to watch out for – which isn’t discussed enough – is a lack of social momentum. You can try to use a move that you normally have success with, but have it completely fail because you didn’t build up enough momentum a half hour or hour prior to when you opened a certain girl.
That’s why Chase developed his 2-venue method. It allows you to get warmed up in one place, experiment, and get your social momentum up so that when it is time to go full-throttle you’re on your game and ready to go when you go to a second place.
Staying Natural. Another danger of using canned lines is that you risk become robotic and scripted in your interactions. You actually risk losing the ability to interact in a free-flowing extemporaneous manner. A lot of the reason why naturals are so good with women is because they are so spontaneous. They ping off of the environment, they ping off of the girl’s emotions and they draw inspiration from within to just say or do the first thing that occurs to them.
So getting in the habit of experimenting with your interactions is a great way to stay spontaneous and unscripted during the seduction process.
At the end of the day, seduction is supposed to be fun. Through all of the high and lows, through the messy logistics and the smooth pulls, it should all be enjoyable. And anyone who does it long enough will develop that love for women and realize that it’s all a game. Yet it’s funny how many guys take picking up women so incredibly seriously.
They think: “If I don’t get a girl tonight, I have no reason to be satisfied” and then brood to themselves if things don’t turn out. But the key is to relax and not take yourself so seriously! Enjoy the process and just try to have a good time when you go out and meet women. If you’re just in it to stay curious, learn, flirt and try to pull a girl home without being attached to the outcome, women will feel that vibe and will gravitate toward you.
So have fun with it. Otherwise, what’s the point?
It’s funny that so often in a man’s life, once you start doing something, the actual activity you do becomes less and less important, and the journey you embark on as a man and active life agent starts to take center stage.
“The Game” is no different. Some guys get into it because a girl really broke their heart (like me). Some guys get into because they couldn’t stop thinking about that one girl. Some guys get into it because they want to prove to themselves that they are worthy of sleeping with perfect 10s. Some guys get into it because they want to prove to someone that they are attractive and well-liked.
There are so many reasons why people choose to improve their skills with women. But after a while… you realize that it’s not about the women at all. That’s really what I mean when I occasionally say that women should not be the sole focus in your life. The cool thing about improving your seduction and social skills is tracking the unique experiences. It’s lying down in bed at 3 am with a stupid grin on your face because you tried to pull a girl through the most absurd logistics or you experimented with a new line in a hectic club.
It’s realizing that at some point in your life, you may have been scared, or bitter, or depressed, or in victim mentality or in whatever other negative state you may have found yourself in. But, at some point in time, you decided to take charge of your life and be the captain of your own ship.
And once you realize that you’ve embarked on that journey, it doesn’t matter what happens with a particular girl or another. She’s not that special – or special at all. What matters is looking at the man you started out as, and seeing the man you’ve become.
That’s the journey. And that’s the point when you really start to love women and love life. And that’s when the words that come out of your mouth in a particular instance of flirting have absolutely no importance.
What’s important… is the energy and being of the man uttering them.
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