Frame Control Examples: Out-Frame Anyone

Al-

Happy to hear they both hit home. Noted on intrigue and charming gestures - I'll place them both on the list!

Chase

Anon-

I didn't really want to go to college and was terrified about ending up in a soul-killing 9-to-5 as well. A year of working as a tire salesman and being too brutally tired to do anything other than sell though left me wondering how I was ever going to be anything other than that, and I gave into my parents' pushing to attend higher education.

My opinion is, unless you know exactly what you want to do, you should probably go. Jobs and Gates both dropped out of school, yes, but both had pretty good ideas about what they did and did not want to do. Jobs dropped out and started auditing classes at school for free; he was still going to college, just not for credit (and he wasn't paying). Gates dropped out midway through college to form Microsoft - he had to choose between that and school, so he chose that. If you have a very solid alternative plan to college, you can get away with not going, but if you don't, you may struggle... college allows you to extend your "figure this all out" time a bit more.

That said, I have known young entrepreneurs who skipped college to build their own 6-figure businesses... but note that these were guys who all knew exactly what they were going to do to make money and had very specific, well-developed skill sets (just as Gates and Jobs both knew computer programming very well, and Jobs was a charismatic salesman).

Freelancing and affiliate marketing are nice side jobs, and you might learn valuable skills via freelancing (e.g., programming, web design and development, etc.), although these themselves are never going to make you rich. They're best for enabling you to have a bit more freedom and the chance to learn on the job. (There's a good article here about a guy's first year of experiences as a freelance PHP programmer)

Outside the hard sciences, college doesn't teach you anything academically you won't learn from a few corporate trainings or a bit of trial-by-fire on the job doing whatever you end up doing anyway. The real benefit of it is the social environment, the lack of responsibility, and the additional runway you get before having to enter the "real world" (e.g., imagine Jobs or Gates trying to start their businesses working as dead tired retail salesmen with barely enough time to eat and sleep instead of as college students with loads of free time and like-minded people around them... never would've happened. Both would've ended up mid-level managers in a retail corporation somewhere... maybe district managers, if they were lucky - there's nothing like working a traditional job to kill imagination, spirit, and enterprise).

Chase

Doobie-

Equanimity can stem from gritty emotiveness as much as any real lack of emotions, you'll find.

When you have grizzled determination to bring something into being, other things affect you much less because they're far less important. In fact, when I see an emotional person, usually my first thought is, "There's someone who doesn't have something that's really, really IMPORTANT in his life." Reason being, is because there's someone who doesn't have someplace specific to devote all his emotional energy - instead, it's just scattered about, being triggered and discharged by any old thing that happens to him.

There are people who are calm and who really don't have much motivation to do anything. And there are others who appear calm, but who hold a fiery intensity blazing behind their eyes, and are driving their energy towards the thing they want to achieve. That's the kind of equanimity you want - composure in the face of emotion, because you know what you're after and you're determined to get it.

Chase

Zac-

Agreed - frame control ups emotions people feel toward you. Using it too intensely with women you aren't interested in means they probably get attracted to you, attached to you, and desirous of you... which of course is problematic if that wasn't what you were trying to achieve.

People also tend to admire those who are adept at frame control - it's a strong leadership characteristic, and an important component of striking people as attractive. If you're using it in passing (e.g., on friends trying to butt into your interaction), you're fine, though - they'll back off trying to interfere, and view you as a more powerful and formidable individual, socially-speaking.

For girls you just want as friends, think "kind, polite, aloof, and not very interested in them outside of social niceties" and you'll have exactly the right idea for not leading them on or driving up emotions unnecessarily.

Chase

J.B.-

I've had a lot of guys recommend Mad Men as good viewing for strong, attractive male characters. Haven't seen it myself yet, but the amount of good things I keep hearing about it makes it sound like a pretty good view.

On field reports, I used to write these back in my old forum days, but I've refrained from putting these up here (and took down some older report-like articles a while back) mainly due to privacy considerations. I don't so much care about me myself, but I'd prefer to not have women get unscrupulous individuals try to contact them about some guy they read about on the Internet who slept with them once. Those people make up a very small minority of the folks who come to this site - the vast, vast majority of people here are awesome and honorable - but it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch, and once you hit the number of visitors this site hits, they start showing up. Better not to kiss and tell, I've found.

That said, should you ever grab a copy of the ebook, I did include a report on a 30-minute pickup and one on a 15-minute pickup in the appendix for reference (HTMGC was written before the site was all that big). Ricardus also did indeed get that series of articles up here talking about his own seductions, as well (although the reports are interspersed with subject matter, too - I asked him to write these this way when he wrote them up) - you can see a search list of them here.

Chase

Wallflower-

Sounds like you're a natural talent ;)

Men do get "hypnotized" by women with frame control this good, yes - same as women do with men who have it. As a man, when you meet a woman who slinks up to you and exudes both sexiness and an air that cries that she KNOWS she's the best thing that could ever happen to you, it's every bit as intoxicating as it is for a woman meeting a man like this. Imagine a woman in a tight red dress approaching a man, pushing him down into his seat, smiling coyly and wagging her finger at him as if to say, "Not just yet..." you can probably picture him drooling pretty quickly in your mind's eye.

The "feeling arrogant" and "being surprised to be found desirable" mentalities are a flip side of imagining how others view you... e.g., one way is to think, "This guy must be looking at me and thinking I'm AMAZING!" while the other way is thinking, "He probably doesn't even notice me." And then there's all manner of thoughts in between. The women who most get this kind of arrogance are the ones who get a lot of experience being around men who desire them constantly - sexy singers, performers, dancers; some strippers, some high class call girls or go go girls who've learned how to be so good with men that they make all their johns fall in love. It's rare to find this kind of sexual confidence in a woman outside of the entertainment industries, just because a woman outside these doesn't get the kind of feedback she needs to both constantly refine her approach, if she chooses to, and to reinforce a mentality of being desired by all and clearly someone who makes the opposite sex thrilled just to be in her presence.

And that comment on steamrolling - that's this one - absolutely, that's a takeaway worth keeping in mind (for women too!) - treat people how the other people they've brought into their lives have treated them, because that's what they really, emotionally want - not how they tell you they want to be treated (that's only what they think they logically want).

Chase

BBJW-

A good response to something like this where text is involved is:

"Why don't you and I go just the two of us on this outing, and we'll invite him next time?"

If she asks why (usually, most women just say "okay" and then get excited that you're escalating things), just tell her you've been doing a lot of group stuff lately and want to get some one-on-one time in now. Conversations are much better when you're one-on-one than when you're with 2+ other people, too.

Chase

Funman-

The best approach with a customer you're selling to is to ask leading questions that give you the information you need to find out what kind of product they want - usually not even worrying about price. When I was a tire salesman, the first thing I would say to a new customer is, "Let's go take a look and see what kind of tire you have on your car right now." Then we'd go see. Then I'd ask how those tires did for him - was there anything he was unhappy with? How was the mileage, the wet weather traction, snow traction, cornering, ride comfort, road noise? Once you've got the details of what he's looking for, you can start showing him what you've got for sale that best meets his needs.

"Do you work on commission?" => "We do - everybody here has a base salary, plus a certain commission on [type of items] sold based on price / etc." If they ask about whether you're going to try and sell them the most expensive thing there so you make the most money, laugh and say, "I'm going to try to sell you whatever it is you WANT, so that you actually buy and I make SOME money. Besides, that's how I make you want to come back and buy with me again next time, too."

If you're getting people pushing decisions off, that isn't usually that you had a weak frame, so much as it is that you didn't inspire any real desire in them to take action or any real confidence in you or that you understand their needs and are meeting them.

Compliance refusals - you need to change topics quickly and deftly. The less you've pushed before accepting a rejection, the less damage you take. The pushier you've been without getting a "yes," the worse off you are.

Girls teasing you - tease back, or, if you don't want to banter, make a, "Well, anyway..." look like we talked about in "Sexy Body Language for Men (Learned from Hot Girls)."

An article on sales - sure, it's a bit off topic, but it'd be fun. I'll queue it up.

An article on being a potential lover - well, that's really what the entire site is geared around... geared at turning you into Grade A potential lover material, right up until the point where you take a girl to bed and become an actual lover. The articles on being smooth, being edgy, being vulnerable, and creating sexual tension are all good primers for this. If you're talking about over a longer period of time, review the article on hooking up with friends - particularly the section on staying on her periphery.

Chase

Phil-

The easiest invite home for a group of girls is the after party invitation - simply tell them to come to your after party. You can do this by yourself or with friends - either is fine. Just don't get too boring in the details... if they ask you who's coming and you say, "Well, it'll be us, plus my roommates are there already," then it sounds pretty boring. If you say, "Some people are heading over after the club," you can go back, throw on some music, tell your friends to start pouring some drinks, and get to it. If they ask if those other people are coming, just tell them they might head here, or they might go somewhere else, and change the topic (they never ask).

On starting over - I'd do it almost the same! I pretty quickly tried out everything when I was new - bars, nightclubs, cafés, street, online, etc. I pretty quickly sorted into nightclubs, just because they were such fertile training grounds - lots of turnover, plenty of attractive women, lots of competition to test your mettle, and relative anonymity so you can take some blowouts and rejections and keep moving with few/no people noticing. The only thing I'd probably do differently is that I'd do more street game - more picking up at the end of the night after the bars and clubs closed (for some of the easiest pickups) and more daytime street game (for meeting the girls better suited to relationships).

Chase

Harry-

What UnregularJoe said. See my comment on this from Wednesday:

Re: Height

Chase

Mack-

All good points here, yeah. Arrogance is one of those things that drives up women's attraction in spite of what women themselves will tell you - you'll hear plenty of, "Oh, I HATE arrogant men!" from women... of course, "hate" tends to translate to "love" a surprising amount of the time.

Going meta - where you're telling her what you're doing and what she's doing and all she can do is stand in awe of your awareness... extremely powerful. And I like to think of myself as something of a guide or a conductor along the road of the seduction too - I suppose it's the most relaxed way of thinking about it (as opposed to, say, thinking that you're "making the seduction happen," which feels quite labor intensive).

Chase

J-

Great tale. That's actually a rather archetypal "guy who's meant for great thing" type arc - guy gets into a pretty good thing, guy breaks it off and leaves, everybody tells him he's crazy, he can't explain it, he just knows he's meant for bigger and better things. The movie 8 Mile is filled with examples of the main character (Eminem) doing this, and everybody telling him he's messed up, wrong in the head, headed in the wrong direction.

An easy way I've found to explain to people is, "I'm just not ready to settle down yet." The more you turn yourself into something impressive, the more easily you come by the things that most other people want for their own lives - but the higher your own personal standards for achievement go. People see you giving up the things they desperately wish they themselves could have, and chide you for your foolishness. When you tell them, "I'm just not ready, and I don't want to hurt her or waste her time," though, they usually can get behind this and respect that you're trying to be a good guy here and not a bad one.

An article on arrogance sounds cool. I'll see what I can do.

Chase