How to Be Vulnerable, Enchanting, and Alluring to Women
We've had a handful of commenters write in recently to
ask about how to be vulnerable,
as well as how
to more fully embody Byronic traits, like those mentioned in the
articles on answering "Do you have a girlfriend?" and
on
being a challenge to women. How
do you, as a man, be vulnerable,
in a way that is both appealing yet not overly sappy or saccharine?
One of these comments from a reader reads as such:
“I have several girls interested in me primarily because of my flaws, and they have told me to my face that I am imperfectly perfect. I am interested in this Byronic concept. Do you try to adapt byronic traits? And can you do a post on them?”
The flawed, vulnerable, Byronic romantic hero - he lines the pages of romance novels, and dots the dreams of women's hearts. But who is he, and how do you become this imperfect man that women so love to fantasize about?
The truth is, we are all of us imperfect, and that gives us an edge. The problem is, most men spend too much time either trying to cover up their flaws entirely, or indulge in them so much that they refuse to improve.
Like always, I will advise you to take the middle path, that lies at neither extreme, but the crossroads of both. Let's have a look at how you can do that.

Though the research on women's attraction toward Byronic types is quoted in the article on being a challenge cited earlier, I'll add it in again here so you don't need to go dashing between articles just to keep up with things. Here it is:
Bogg's and Ray's research on "The Heterosexual Appeal of Socially Marginal Men" again:
“Surveyed women consistently specify preferences for egalitarian dates and/or mates. A common perception is that many of these same women often select consorts who are inscrutable, assertive, and controlling, ultimately bemoaning their choices. Dominance has been experimentally shown to provide initial attraction advantages. The Byronic Hero, a venerable literary model, embraces protagonists who possess extraordinary masculine traits that include dominance but also multiple personal flaws. Byronic Heroes, easily identified and plentiful in popular fiction, appear strongly to resonate with youthful audiences and provide alluring portrayals of heterosexual relations. In a classroom survey employing slide images of paired apparel models and a blind date scenario, collegiate women slightly but significantly preferred models independently judged to project Byronic traits over equally handsome men who appeared affable and conventional. Subject comments on Byronic models uniquely included allusions to sexual and mysterious/rebellious attributes. It was concluded that projections of Byronic masculinity provide initial advantages in the securing of heterosexual liaisons.”
So - sitting in a classroom, not having met the men in question,
only looking at images of them, women rated the flawed, vulnerable, bad
boys with Byronic traits as more attractive than the totally
normal, unflawed men of equivalent levels of handsomeness.
Why?
To better understand this phenomenon, I'll cite another piece of research here, this one entitled "The Byronic Hero, Theatricality and Leadership," by Gabriele Poole:
“Starting off with Annabella Milbanke's description of Byron after their first meeting, this essay explores the way in which Byron's persona, as displayed in a certain kind of social situation, appears characterised by a series of masks, yet is presented in such a way as to facilitate its unmasking by observers and obtain their sympathies. This model of interaction between Byron and his admirers is then applied to Byron's works, where this same semantic stratification of the Byronic Hero is complicated at times by the hero's use of the Byronic persona as an instrument of domination and on some occasions by the author's deliberate foregrounding of the hero's theatricality.”
Let's boil this down and see what researchers have to teach us about what Lord Byron has to teach us about how to be vulnerable in a way that is both transfixing and alluring. The takeaways are:
-
Women are more attracted to men who are flawed in specific ways (we'll explore more what these ways are below)
-
The Byronic hero wears a series of masks that must be taken away, revealing more and more of his character as this is done
-
These masks are usually relatively easy to strip away, though sometimes are made more difficult by the very flaws of the hero
The interesting thing is that this is a rather natural phenomenon you'll see in a lot of men. Far before they ever know anything about this logically, many more socially calibrated men begin to "layer" themselves with different levels of identity and vulnerability that women can then strip away, like a kind of Russian nested matryoshka doll... only, one that gets more and more captivating and amazing and personal every time another layer is removed, rather than simply smaller.
What's So Exciting to Women About These Layers?
Let's take a break for a second. You'll generally find that men have two different reactions to the whole "layers thing." These are:
-
"Of course women love complicated, layered men... that's why I have constructed myself as just such a man!"
-
"Geez, women are so ridiculously complicated! Why can't they just like a guy for who he is, and not need all these silly games? This is too complex."
The first reaction is that of the man who has learned to think like a woman. He's learned the great principle of, "If you want someone to give you something, learn to understand what that person wants first, and provide that in return." He knows that if he wants women as lovers and girlfriends and romantic partners, he'll have the most choice and the most consistent ability to do so with them if he gives them exactly what they want. And what they want is a complicated, layered, perfectly imperfect man.
The second reaction is that of the man whose mental model is one wanting to do things the way he wants to do them and not wanting to need to accommodate anyone else, and expecting everyone else to see things like he sees them. When he says, "Why can't women do this?" what he's actually saying is, "Why can't women think like men, instead of like women? Geez!"
What that man is failing to take into account, of course, is that what men want out of partners and relationships, and what women want out of partners and relationship, are in fact rather different.
And because what they want is different, the way they go about looking for it is different, too.
Women, by nature, are probers. They're pokers. They like to stick
curious eyes and investigative fingers into places others would rather
they didn't; they test men ceaselessly, checking
to see if a guy's still strong NOW... and how about now... and, what about now?
They object to things, hoping those objections will be overcome, disappointed when they aren't. They protest about things they don't really care about, just to see what your reaction will be or get attention. They play games because they like to play games, because they're good at them, and because the men who beat them at their own games excite them and arouse them and energize them.
Women like complicated situations and they like complicated men. They like peeling back layers. They like feeling like they're getting to the bottom of some great mystery that no other woman has fully gotten to the bottom of yet.
It's a driving force behind why they like:
- Gossip
- Drama
- Soap operas
- Testing/teasing
- Flirting (to see how men react)
... and it's a driving force behind why they like bad boys, those quintessential flawed, Byronic heroes who know how to be vulnerable without being weak.
Why aren't women as interested in nice guys, in handsome guys without flaws, and in those guys who'd rather women were more like men than wishing for those men who are what women want?
Simple - these men just aren't as interesting.
They're boring!
And there's nothing quite like boredom to still any stirrings in a woman's bosom or loins.
Put another way (the way we talked about in the "being a challenge" article), most men are either too available and no challenge (nice guys, boring guys), or they're too perfect and unattainable (handsome, desirable men who are flawless and "unreal").
In addition to boredom and lack of challenge at the one end of the
spectrum though, I strongly suspect there is something else at play at
the other...
If He's Too Good to Be True...
Let's say you meet a girl.
She's intelligent, charming, witty, sociable, fun, flirty, fashionable, and everybody you know thinks she's amazing. She plays the piano flawlessly, dances like a professional, earns marks off the charts in school and at work, and in her spare time helps out at the local soup kitchen.
Oh, and she's absolutely, positively, drop-dead GORGEOUS.
She is, in a word, perfect.
And oh... she's madly in love with you.
Sounds great, right? And, being a man, you'll likely rush in headlong... but at the back of your mind, something will feel a little off.
That something is the old word of warning of:
“If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.”
The thing with perfect people is that NOBODY tries that hard to be perfect without having something he or she is compensating for.
Really intelligent girls don't make themselves look as beautiful because it isn't as much of a concern.
Really beautiful girls don't work as hard on their studies, and don't contribute to causes and charities as much, because they have enough value in one sphere that they don't need to spend time boosting their value in another (academics, work, charity, etc.).
If she's working THIS hard to make herself THIS perfect, your mind knows something is amiss.
And it doesn't know what that is.
But, as a man, you're likely to disregard this feeling in the back of your head. The desire to reproduce is stronger; something might be wrong here, but you can always just get out later if it turns out she's crazier than a bag full of fruit bats.
Not so for women.
Women approach dating far more cautiously than men do. Their alarm bells ring all the louder, and they pay all the more attention to them.
And when you come across too good to be true to women, they tend to pay close attention. They proceed cautiously... untrustingly. Something's wrong with this man, they think, but he won't show me what it is. Instead, he just keeps acting perfect.
Never let her find out what that is, and she'll never feel comfortable opening up to you and trusting you.
She'll never lower her guard around you and put down her walls.
She may never let things proceed, even if you seem outwardly like the catch of the century.
That is, of course, until you let her begin to remove your masks.
Then, the game changes.


Whether you're too nice (and a little too boring) or too perfect (and a little too suspicious), you'll benefit from learning how to be vulnerable and making yourself into a more Byronic kind of man.
In so doing, you will come to embody many of the key traits and qualities of the heroes of just about every romance book, film, or TV show ever made. You will become the man women dream about.
Chances are, you already have these traits and qualities, in fact... you just don't know the right way to present them yet.
And that's the key - the presentation. Presentation is the difference between an ordinary magician and a great one - the ordinary one knows all the tricks, but the great one is a showman, in addition to knowing the technical aspects of the magic he performs.
Put on a good show, and people will admire you wherever you stand.
The Traits of the Hero
Wikipedia lists the following traits as the characteristics of the Byronic hero:
- Arrogant
- Cunning and able to adapt
- Cynical
- Disrespectful of rank and privilege
- Emotionally conflicted, bipolar, or moody
- Having a distaste for social institutions and norms
- Having a troubled past or suffering from an unnamed crime
- Intelligent and perceptive
- Jaded, world-weary
- Mysterious, magnetic and charismatic
- Rebellious
- Seductive and sexually attractive
- Self-critical and introspective
- Self-destructive
- Socially and sexually dominant
- Sophisticated and educated
- Struggling with integrity
- Treated as an exile, outcast, or outlaw
Note that normally no one Byronic hero has all of these - a handful of them is
all it typically takes, but a mixture of the good and the bad is
normally what makes him up.
Many of these are traits already established in scientific literature to boost attraction in women (arrogance, emotional extremes, breaking social norms, intelligence, and intrigue are a few; and obviously we don't need to say that sexually attractive has proven sexually attractive), whereas others are traits that, mixed in with the positive traits, give a woman an opportunity to "save" a man.
We discussed the other side of this coin - men falling prey to Superman Syndrome and riding in to rescue damsels in distress - in the article on white knights; but the reverse is just as true.
Women often want to save a man, because:
-
Saving someone makes you feel special - like you are the only person who's been able to reach this other individual at this level of emotional impact
-
Saving someone makes you feel secure - surely, he or she will not leave when he or she owes you such a great debt of gratitude!
-
Saving someone makes you feel like a noble person - you're a hero, someone who's come to the rescue, pulling this other individual out of the fire
-
Saving someone makes you feel powerful - you have the ability to bring good into the world, and into other people's lives
If she can just show him the light, she knows, or help him through his issues, she will have made this imperfect man into a perfect one - and he'll be all hers. She'll be the envy of every woman in town.
Of course, it doesn't actually play out like this in real life - most people in need of saving can never successfully or permanently be saved (rather, they remain always in a state of perpetually being in need of rescuing, and always find their way back to that, no matter how many times they're saved), and the people who do get saved soon forget the person who saved them and move on with their lives, seeking to partner with someone who is more their equal now, rather than this person who was their equal when they were not so perfect.
But no one thinks that way. Instead, they just keep on saving.
How to Be Vulnerable (Without Being Weak)
If you look back over that list of traits above, you
should be able
to pick out which traits of yours are on that list. When I go down it,
I can put a check mark next to most
of them.
There may be men out there who have absolutely none of these traits, but if so, they're probably so good-natured and so content with their lots in life that I doubt they're among the readership here. If you're reading this article, you should be able to pick out at least 4 qualities in that chart that match your own. Ideally, far more.
The issue here, of course, is the presentation; how do you show a
girl that YOU are the
vulnerable, enchanting, alluring Byronic hero for whom she's been
searching without her knowing she was?
That's where we come back to masks - multiple layers of them, easily peeled back by the curious.
You'll recall what we've discussed in the articles on building intrigue; that women like having to dig to find out more about you. This is the basis behind baiting as a conversational technique, and it's the line of reasoning behind the advice of dialing down the value you show.
Normal men - the ones who get slated as "boring" or, alternately, "too high value" - often rush to empty their box of valuable qualities all over the table and lay out their wares for sale. "Here's everything I've got to offer!" they declare to women. Women look over those wares... then, confident they've seen everything, and not having seen anything all that unique compared to the thousands of other men who've shown them very similar wares, they keep moving.
Then they come to a man who does not have that approach. That man has a few interesting items out on his table, and boxes upon stuffed boxes behind him, with no indication into what's inside. "These are neat..." says the girl, examining some knick-knacks. "What else have you got?" The man shakes his head; sorry, I can't let you see that. She presses, he apologizes again. Then, he has to disappear into the back room; she sneaks a peak into one of the boxes, getting a glimpse of that which all the other customers never get to see.
That's what it's like being vulnerably Byronic; you're the guy with boxes of untold baubles, but you feign not wanting to let her look, until she looks inside on her own.
I'm waxing metaphorical, though. How does this apply to your interactions with women in the real world?
Simple. Let me give you a series of steps to follow, instead of abstractions and figurative examples to work off of.
-
Don't show all your cards. You know this one, if you've been reading here a while; we talk about it a lot. Don't spill the beans. Don't go divulging everything about yourself when first asked; keep some back. Girls don't do it with you; and you should not do it with them. It kills intrigue and makes a man boring - leave some things to the imagination. This is a part of why deep diving and being a conversationalist revolve around getting girls talking - instead of you talking.
-
Reveal yourself in layers. As you begin to dive deep and get to know a girl in conversation, she'll begin seeking to find out more about you and probe and learn too. As she does so, you want to start with revealing only the more superficial levels of your motives, while hinting at deeper ones. Too abstract? Here are some examples:
-
Show some of your "damaged" side... but only if it's unexpected. You might talk about getting arrested, or getting in fights, or getting shot at or stabbed. You might talk about a scuba diving accident where you nearly drowned, or the time climbing a mountain you nearly went over the cliff. You might talk about how you were a loner for a long time, and never had friends. But whatever it is, it should be mentioned only briefly in passing, and it should come as something of a shock.
Don't talk about how you used to be a loner, obviously, if you still seem like a loner; do it when you're clearly the most social guy in the room. And don't talk about your jail time or fist fights if you seem like a tough guy or hood; do it when you seem clean cut and refined. Don't talk about your adventuring among a group of adventurers; do it among reserved polite society.
You need to pick what's "damaged" based on the particular society. Women are enamored with Byronic heroes in romantic tales because these heroes have unexpected "damaged" histories that are thrilling and exotic to the woman. If a girl's been in and out of jail herself, she won't be too impressed about your night in the drunk tank. But if she's been surrounded by people who'd never dream of breaking the law all her life, when she stumbles across this fact about you she'll have just peeled back another mask.
Also, obviously, the same rules apply here as everywhere else in conversation; don't launch into an overlong story simply because you think it'll be great for showing how vulnerable you are. Instead, just mention it, in intriguing fashion, and give her the opportunity to ask more, dig, and probe if she's interested.
-
Be the holder of forbidden knowledge. The easiest way to get someone to push a button is to put a big, fat "DO NOT PUSH" sign next to the button, with no explanation whatsoever why not to push it. If a girl asks you about something and your response is along the lines of, "Well... we all have our little secrets," or, "It's not that important," you will drive her mad with curiosity trying to uncover what these hidden truths from you are.
Being highly perceptive and using cold reading and accurately guessing or intuiting things about her can push this agenda too. She'll wonder how you knew that, and assume there's a lot more you must know, too.
A girl you're talking to asks you why you moved to town, and you say, "In search of a new adventure," or, "My old town was great, but after 4 years there I felt like I'd done and seen and experienced everything there was to offer. I need something more."
A woman you've just met asks you why you chose the profession you have. "Well, everyone needs a calling - something they can use to impact the world;" you say, "this one's mine," or, "It wasn't my first choice, but it was the best choice available to me to get to where I needed to get to."
What do each of these do? They inspire the girl to dig deeper. She's peeled off the first mask - your polite social mask, of "this is what I am and this is what I do." She's discovered the next mask underneath - that you in fact are driven by something other than chance or fate.
In the town example, you're an adventurer; but what drives that, and what kinds of adventures? Or, you'd done it all; but what more are you looking for now, and when will you know you've found it?
In the profession example, you've found your calling; but what
kind of impact are you trying to make? Or, you took a practical choice
to get you where you want to go; but where was that, and what would you
have chosen instead?
That last one's optional, but the first three are more or less the order of the day for the Byronic hero. They are the essential elements in the cookbook; to learn how to be vulnerable, you must learn and use these.
A Vulnerable Man
Vulnerability does not mean, "I cry when I think about starving children in impoverished nations." Nor does it mean, "I spend all my time trying to save the world!"
Oftentimes, all it means for the Byronic man is, "I WISH I could save everyone... but I am only one man, and I cannot."
There's a mixture of idealism tempered by realism. The Byronic man is the one who began life as an idealist, but through the chain of his life has become, by necessity, a realist. And that's another thing women love about him - his broken dreams of grandeur, likely never to be fully realized, because he is honest that the world is a hard, difficult, dirty place.
He bucked society. He tried to bring his dreams to fruition. He
worked, he struggled, he strived. But, like all men who struggle
valiantly, at some point he came upon the firm hand of reality, and was
checked and slowed down and forced not to dream as big.
He's not like the childish, unrealistic dreamer who thinks anything is possible and there are no limits. And he's not like the cold, forsaken pessimist who believes life is a pointless spinning of the top that goes on only until the top stops spinning and we pass into oblivion.
Rather, he's the dreamer who dared to dream big once, but life has tempered his grand ambitions.
Yet still, somewhere back in the dusty recesses of his mind, he dreams.
And that is what women
want to be a part of.
Chase Amante
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Comments
Before I forget
Hey chase I didn't get to read the article yet. I wanted to ask you something before I forgot what it was, so I might ask another question about the article.
Anyway, I see that you and I are alike in many ways, which is why I like your stuff so much.
The reason why I say this is because I never really approached in my life becuase girls, did it for me, like you've stated girls did the same to you growing up. Im ok with cold approaching but Its hard for me to get in the habit. My question is,
How can I break the rustiness of cold approaching since I haven't done it in a while and do I have aa if I don't approch becuase I use too never doing it?
Quick question about a girl showing subtle interest.
I was at a club and a girl sat next too me and I can feel her foot ever so lightly tapping my calf here and there, very subtle. I moved my arm to the side of her leg to see if she would move but she stayed. I didn't open because so much time has passed that I didn't want it to be awkward and I didn't want to get my hopes up thinking about the touching.
What does my story sound like to you chase?
Should I have opened even after 20 min?
What would I say if I did open?
Thanks!
Doing It
Balla-
Not much more I can say on this that I haven't said a hundred times already... you've got to do it. Whether it takes you 20 milliseconds or 20 minutes, do it and get it off your plate.
There's nothing I can write here that will live your life for you or bring the things you want into it for you... you've got to do it.
And the sooner you start doing it, the sooner it'll get easier to do it, and the sooner you'll start seeing success from doing it.
But if you don't do it, you may well be hanging out on GC writing questions about how to do it forever, while other guys who go out and do it pass you by and snag the girls you liked but never did it with.
Do it, man. Talk to girls. Ask them out. Take some initiative.
It'll suck at first if you're used to being approached, but you'll get used to it, figure it out, and, after you build some experience in of being the aggressor, you'll begin to reintegrate your old style of getting women to chase, with your new style of taking action and being able to actually do something with that attention.
But you've got to do it, first. Otherwise, it's all just words on a screen.
Chase
Since Chase is living his
Since Chase is living his dreams, doesn't this article not apply to you then?
Dreams
The human brain is very well designed to never be fully content. Whatever your dreams now, the moment you achieve them, your brain will begin looking for something else to achieve next.
One only lives his dreams for the first few moments of achieving them. After that, his dreams expand, and he is once again in pursuit.
Chase
!
Great article I've been waiting for that for a while. I hadn't thought of adapting the damaged side of you for different groups of people, but I will have to try that. If a girl has already gone through the majority of your layers, what do you do? Is it possible to create more? Loved the article!
Bottom Layer
Anon-
The best thing I can say about that is that you need to have a bottom "layer" (you at your absolute core) that is beyond analysis and understanding... that people could spend a lifetime trying to figure out and still not be able to predict what you'll do.
The biographies of Steve Jobs and Tupac Shakur are like that. Here are these driven, dynamic, crazy ambitious guys, whom you can't plan around or predict. They do things unexpectedly, and the things they do are unexpected because nobody can completely get inside their heads.
Women will try to figure you out. If they ever do, the interest is gone.
I don't know how to teach it just yet, but the only thing I can say about the lowest level is "be complex."
In fact, start off seeming simple on the surface, and just get more and more complex as she digs down. Make your core something she can dig into forever and never reach the bottom of. But to do that, you must have something driving you and motivating your actions that is of great importance to you... without that, you're easy to figure out: like most people, you just want comfort and happiness. To stay complex, you need to be something more than most people.
Chase
Fascinating article. Gives
Fascinating article. Gives me a lot to think about. I often feel as though I open up and give too much information too early on.
You know, my approach used to
You know, my approach used to be "spill my beans" because I just always had an impatient personality. I want to know the answers and I want to know them NOW! No waiting. So my subconscious used to try and make it easy for girls by not making them wait to discover me. My attraction levels aren't affected that much by a mysterious woman vs another woman who is less mysterious and auto-shares her life with me... as long as she is interesting! But that's me!
The epiphany is, I can't attract women thinking that they see the world like I do... I must adapt and see the world as THEY do to attract THEM! Also, I must be more patient with women and let them warm up to me.
And so I will say after recounting reading novels, and thinking on how authors would "bait" me into dying to know more... I'd automatically start reading more intensely, heart starting to throb, hoping to get the answer! I became excited! So now I can see why women are more intrigued by the guy who uses baiting as a technique to inspire their curiosity, to inspire them to take off his masks.
As a matter of fact now that I've started paying more attention, I see women baiting me all the time in ever-so-subtle ways to "inspire me" to ask them out or invite myself over to their house, etc. It's fascinating how these things work out!
Splendid article man.
Baiting
Anon-
Fantastic observation on the novels and on how women comport themselves in interactions. Yes, baiting's an inherent part of both strategies - the ones that are good, that keep you turning the pages faster and faster, or delving into her background more and more, are the ones that give you a taste, but not the full meal, until you're well into things.
And the deeper you go, the more intriguing leads and paths keep cropping up, making it a richer and richer and more exciting and more rewarding experience.
Chase
Hi Chase, I'm surprised at
Hi Chase,
I'm surprised at the amount of rich resources i find here. And each article have their amazing points which really opens up a person's mind. It's like "Wow, I just read something that's worth a piece of gold".
However, as i kept reading, it seems like there's an information overload.
Mr. Ricardus and yourself kept stressing about the Fundamentals, Fundamentals and more Fundamentals.
However, With so MUCH information, and I know each and every piece is golden, can you let the readers know what's exactly are the MAIN Fundamentals?
Because each articles here seems to tell me ALL of them are fundamentals and that's way too much for a beginner like me to start! I dun even know where to focus on!
Are the Fundamentals includes being presentable? able to deep dive and keep woman interested? First impression? etc?
I'm sure many readers here (especially starters like myself) will really appreciate if you could list out the "main" fundamentals which we can immediately work on.
Thank you so much for the insights on the art of seducing, will definitely purchase your book when I'm at a more advanced level, I've been wanting to practice this but couldn't find a reliable web which gives me the in-depth insights which you and Ricardus has present here. Both of you are Low-Esteem Men Life Savior.
Regards,
LoverBoy
Fundamentals
Hey LoverBoy,
Sure thing. Three resources for you:
How to Get a Girl: this is more or less the GC version of "New? Start here." It's a quick list of the more core concepts and techniques, to get you going.
How to Find the Woman You Most Want: A 10-Step Process: a much longer article that breaks many of the former articles on the site down into categories, to give you a rough idea about what goes where and what to read when you want to target different areas for improvement.
How to Make Girls Chase: the eBook designed as the learning companion for the guy who wants to get good with women, with everything broken down into digestible chunks, with actionable steps and homework assignments to get you out there doing it.
If you use these well, you should find yourself able to tackle the site with a lot more ease and a lot less confusion.
Chase
Thanks
I have 17 those traits, does that make me imperfectly Byronic? ;)
It's an interesting topic, but I'm going to have to read it a few more times I think.
Regards
Flames
17
Just means you've got one more to go until you're perfectly Byronic, Flames!
Chase
"Rather, he's the dreamer who
"Rather, he's the dreamer who dared to dream big once, but life has tempered his grand ambitions. Yet still, somewhere back in the dusty recesses of his mind, he dreams."
Haha, you cannot imagine how many times I've felt this way about a certain activity in my life. Seems like the only problem I have is that I reveal this to men and not women I'm interested in :)
Shit... I think I have all of
Shit... I think I have all of those traits. Yeah, they make it easy to attract women, but hard as fuck to get and hold down a good job. I am who I am, and don't see myself changing a lot, but this whole Byronic thing is a blessing and a curse.
Women and Jobs
Indeed... the whole independence-seeking, authority-bucking tendencies do make it hard to swallow life in the 9-to-5 world, Dude... blessing and curse, depending on which sphere of life you're examining it in.
However, it might be said that Byronic traits make you perfect as an entrepreneur.
Not the best company man. But perhaps the best man to start that company. Worth exploring when you're trying to figure out what comes next.
Chase
Interesting read
Looks like I am not exactly Byronic ... lucky for me it isn't black and white so I still got some good qualities to be working on, guess I am imperfectly Lanoic in study ;)
Regardless, this insight provided me with yet another viewpoints and realities of vulnerability in seduction, been analyzing a lot of this stuff recently. Definitely harder than routines that go a long way, but hard work and resulting authenticity go farther. I still have a lot to do to be really natural at these, but I count on it being worth it.
Thanks for the article,
L.
Harder Than Routines
L-
Yeah, any time you tackle the "skill-based" side of things instead of learning a script or a specific gambit, it takes longer. However, it's loads more flexible... that's the trade off.
More specific stuff is easier to pick up and use right away, but its usefulness is usually pretty limited. Skill-building takes more time... but once you've got it, it branches out into and positively impacts everything you do.
Chase
Where women go
Chase, great article.
Think you could do one on how women think? Or where women would like to meet men, or where we can already have a advantage in that women are already there-to look for men.
How Women Think
Hi Anon,
There are a number of articles on different aspects of how women think on here - e.g.:
What Women Want
Women's Forgotten Past
What's the Best Way to Pick Up Girls? Get the Ones Looking for You
... but I suppose you mean one more along the lines of, "A day in the life off..."?
Women aren't totally different creatures than men, they're just under different constraints that direct how they think about and move through the world (e.g., more waiting and hoping than most men, which is why they put so much more emphasis on "destiny" than men do - they're less in control of their lives than a strong man is of his - more passive-aggressiveness and blaming, because they need someone to take care of them and become disenchanted when he fails, etc.).
Maybe one highlighting the key ways that women's thought processes differ from men's would be most useful. I'll add it to the list!
Chase
Counter-productive?
Hello chase, I read somewhere that over reading can be counter productive.
Ex. I keep reading your articles but I don't apply what I read and I just keep on reading gaining knowledge, but never testing it. Is that true chase? Is all this reading of your articles making it more difficult for me not to approch? What should I do?
Thank you!!!
Over-Reading, Under-Doing
Vaughn-
It could be, if you're using reading as an excuse not to go out. Like, "Well, I don't feel like going out... I know, I'll go read some GC instead!"
When I was learning, I'd post on message boards to share my experiences, get feedback, and help other guys with stuff I'd already done / learned. But periodically, I'd find myself finding more and more time there, and going out less and less. So, once or twice a year, I'd simply leave for at least a month, then go out and make ALL my learning in the field.
Basically, you say, "Okay, I've learned enough for now; it's time to go do it," then you spend time away from new information and just put to practice all the older information that you've learned. Once you start doing so well and really crank up your success and things are going great, then (at least with forums) you often want to return to start sharing all the new things you've learned, help out more guys, and get that stuff inked out so that you'll remember it better. Then, you slowly cycle back into more reading and less doing, until you reach another point where it's time to stop reading and time to start doing again.
Chase
2 Questions
Hi Chase,
1) What is your opinion about a girl sharing her vulnerable story with us?
2) How can a girl show her vulnerable side to us on a date?
Funman
Girls and Vulnerability
Funman-
The more someone feels you know her, the more connected to you she feels. So you want her sharing her vulnerable sides with you.
To get that happening, check out these:
Secrets to Getting Girls: The Art of the Deep Dive
Get to Know a Girl: Connection-Building Tactics
What Does She Want? The 8 Things You Must Ask Her
Chase
Accepting your flaws..
Hey chase does this mean acceting your flaws and showing to women that you are also vunerable. Will it not make you less dominant and does it mean not to master anything or mastering yourself to be a byronic man?
Im little confused would like to get your thoughts on this...
Flaws
Hey Ash-
I think the part you're getting confused on is the idea of flaws. The Byronic hero either is flawed, and others see it, but he doesn't think he is at all, OR he's flawed, and tells others he's flawed, but he's also SO POWERFUL that these flaws only serve to make him more human.
e.g., an average guy saying, "Oh, I'm flawed!" looks weak. A guy who's clearly strong and dominant and powerful says, "I'm flawed... stay away from me, you'll only get hurt," on the other hand, makes women swoon.
It's more a matter of making yourself more relatable and having chinks in the armor in the right places than it is of removing your dominance. What flaws you have should be in addition to you being a strong, dominant man - the flaws complement this, rather than tear it apart, as they do with non-powerful personas.
Chase
Byronic... hmm..
Awesome article, Chase! I've been working on being like this for a bit.
James Dean is the ultimate Byronic hero. His middle name was even Byron. People say he was moody, rebellious and arrogant. He was in three films and is still remembered today as one of the best. I still can't wrap my mind around how. The guy was just awesome. Jim Morisson seems like one of these types of dudes too.
But anyways, I have a lot of those traits... but doesn't cynicism fly in the face of being Romantic? A lot of them fly in the face of your teachings. Not a criticism, but an observation.
Byronic / Cynicism
Walls-
Early death of someone in the midst of a skyrocketing career tends to lionize and mythologize people. Look at JFK, Tupac, Biggie, Elvis, Houdini, Marilyn Monroe, John Lennon, Bruce Lee, Jimi Hendrix, MLK Jr., and a great deal more. In many cases, these folks were great, but they had other peers who were quite good too. Getting struck down in your prime - as Dean did - fills people's heads with, "What if?"s "What if he didn't die? Imagine all the wonderful things he probably would have done!" In reality, his career trajectory would've gone the same way as any of his peers, and petered out just the same, and he would've been remembered, but never as much as if he dies early. "You're nobody 'til somebody kills you," to quote B.I.G., a few months before somebody killed him.
Cynicism... depends how it's manifested. A little cynicism can be good - it's effective in humor. Too much is bad. The powerful, attractive, grumpy cynic can be alluring to some women - e.g., Wolverine in the X-Men movies, or Han Solo in Star Wars. A dynamic woman sees him sees him more as a tough nut to crack, rather than a bad apple to be avoided. Of course, not all women respond to this - only the ones who REALLY love a challenge. She wants to melt his heart and turn him into a romantic (which he can only sort of ever be).
But, many women reading books and movies like to imagine they are that girl. So this character makes it in there a good bit. In real life there aren't quite so many of these girls, but if you like them, being a bit cynical makes it easier to land them.
Chase
Undamaged goods
Hey Chase,
On point #3, what should I do if I don't have any shocking stories, accidents, or personality changes to mention?
Isn't it enough to just be intriguing (points #1, 2, and 4) and humble without being "damaged"? For instance, everything you described in your "bad boys" article doesn't involve being Byronic or having unexpected stories to tell - it was just about fundamentals/conversation skills/etc.
I also don't really have any of the negative Byronic traits (jaded and world-weary, etc.) except sometimes for "emotionally conflicted or moody." Do I need to tell girls more about my doubts and fears? I tend to be clam-shelled on those - it feels weak and negative and I don't really want to talk about such personal things...
And is it possible to develop those other Byronic traits that I don't currently have? I suppose I could try to get more in touch with my arrogant or rebellious or world-weary side...but that just feels like breaking something that wasn't broken.
Best,
The M
Re: Undamaged goods
M-
That's a hard one. All I can really say there is, "It depends."
Being "damaged goods" tends to heighten women's excitement and arousal for you. You're less qualified as a boyfriend, but more so as a lover, something in the way that scars and tattoos also increase lover potential. They're signs you've endured pain, battles, and other hardship, and come out on the other end unbroken - a sign of high genetic quality. In many species, research shows scarred males getting better receptions from females, and having higher levels of reproductive success. I saw one study (I think it was with bullfrogs) where the researchers basically took some male frogs, gave them a big nasty scar along their heads, and then put them in tanks with other male frogs and female frogs. The scarred frogs, equal in all other ways to the unscarred ones, out-mated the unscarred frogs.
Without damage, you're basically "cute but untested." The world hasn't chewed you up and spit you back out yet, so you're a bit of question mark on how you'd take that and how strong you REALLY are.
Your options are to seek out adventure wherever you can find it, to develop that world-weariness and battle-testedness about you... or to simply work on other aspects of your game and personality.
It depends how far you want to go, and the kinds of women you're going for. All women like mildly damaged men more (obviously, if you're missing arm or you've just been sentenced to 20 years in prison, that's probably a disadvantage), but you can also stack up advantages in other corners and use those to outweigh a damaged guy who lacks some of your other advantages.
The more in-demand the women you pursue, though, and the stiffer the competition, the more you need every edge you can get - so plan based on what the women you're meeting and the competition you're up against looks like.
Chase
Features
It's the same way the people find a symmetrical face more appealing, but at the same time a face without any imperfections looks completely unnatural, the way the old CGI characters looked before the created powerful software to create imperfections to the models.
Regards
Flames
Uncanny Valley
Flames-
Exactly. That's called "uncanny valley" in the realm of artificial intelligence, where something is close enough to real that it doesn't seem totally fake, but not close enough that it seems real, and instead it just freaks people out and throws off their alarm bells; I almost used that term in this post in describing the "too perfect man," actually.
Great minds think alike, ay? ;)
Chase
Opposite of Byronic Male...The Sexy Tough Girl
Hi chase,
Nyc post...on the byronic male.
This is my first time to post a comment on one of your blog posts and i would like to say that the site has been a great help to me.Things that were blurry to me before are now clearer and more vivid.Thanks, mann!
On to my question...Could you put up a post on Tough women, Bisexuals and Lesbians?
This is because, am the kind of guy who's attracted to the imperfect perfect girl. One who doesn't try hard to impress. and is beautiful from the outlook, without too much make up, doesn't try to cover up her behaviour, goes for what she likes, kind of arrogant but you can see that she has (or once had) a good heart..and is fun to hang out with.
The problem with such girls it seems, is that they have either had too much to life and just have trust issues, which makes it very hard to move things forward with. Coming from a country where sexual abuse to young girls has been an issue in the past, some girls have become either cynical, become tough, turned to lebianism or even become bisexual (or claim to have) .
So how would help on the getting of tough girls or even bisexual girls?
Regards
Sexy Tough Girl
Cain-
Great to hear the site's helped clear some blurred lines. That's fantastic.
On the tough women / bisexual women / lesbians, sure - I'll add it to the list.
While you're waiting, we discussed this on the Boards already, and I gave a brief reply there:
Re: Lesbians?
I'll go more into it when I can get a proper article up on it, though.
Chase
Charm
Hey Chase I've been thinking a lot lately about what being charming actually consists of. I know a lot of the stuff on this site will definitely turn you into a charming individual but I wanted to know if you could do a comprehensive post on what it really means to be charming. Any help is appreciated.
-dedicated reader
- A.J.
Re: Charm
Hi A.J.-
That's actually one of the posts near the top of my list - someone asked about it back in November, and I have it written down there and cued up. The only thing slowing me down is it's going to be a MASSIVE article when I can get around to it, and I've been doing a lot of running around lately and running on the wire. Want to make sure I'm fresh, relaxed, and have a lot of time to dive into it and give it a proper treatment when it's time to tackle an article on charm.
But trust - it is coming!
Chase
Confusing. Being introduced by a friend
Hey chase
Fantastic read! A common thought keeps crossing my head as I try to apply what I learn. That is how to have friends introduce you to their friends you think are cute. Basically how to hook you up? I am in college so my friend has a friend who has a friend. I don't know whether or not to have the friend make the introduction or I should go right up to the girl and make an introduction. I guess direct vs social proof? Also should you ever have your friend ask the girl your interested in directly about you before you go and talk to her?
Intros by Friends
Hi JJ-
Yes, you do want your friend to introduce you (makes things easier for you; plus, it's weird if she finds out you know her friend later, but had to come meet her on your own anyway), however you want to make sure it's under natural (i.e., non-high pressure) circumstances.
So no contrived, "Hey Jessica, this is my friend JJ, he's really cool, and I thought you two should meet." Rather, what you want is for a natural social setting, where your friend is already talking to the girl, and you happen to come by and hang out coolly to the side, and then you friend introduces you.
Mind the rules in this article, and you should be fine:
The Secret to Hooking Up with Friends
Oh, and definitely no, do NOT have the friend ask the girl about you first. That'll just tell her you like her but are too afraid to say something yourself. She shouldn't have any clue you even knew she existed before you say "hi."
You can tell her after you've already been dating and sleeping with her a few months and she sees you as firmly a solidly attractive man... then it's fine if she finds out you had your eye on her!
Chase
Man, you are really good. I'm
Man, you are really good. I'm a detail guy. An analyzer. The way you put information out sinks right into me. I can't thank you enough for your work. Here's to being a byronic man!
You
I stumbled upon this site one lazy day, just typing in google "how to be more attractive". Was just curious and really wasn't looking for anything. I found this site, read my first post and went "Wow"and after some weeks of reading this one hit the "so that's how I gotta do it" nail. This is like the bible for this stuff man. It really has helped and it was like I had a pool of what I thought I should do and you refined it into something magical. I wish I'd seen it sooner too. Anyways I wanted to throw a thanks and keep em comin.
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