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“Well, the reason is because…” Lots of guys explain themselves to
women. But should you ever explain yourself to her?
Commenting on my article "She’ll Do What She Has to to Get What She Wants", a reader named Mr. Shark notes (emphasis added):
“Hello, Chase
I noticed that girls start to ignore me when I explain myself. It kinda bothers me because when I screw up, its like... she is a human, why does not she care where I am coming from? I am sure that it can be done from position of strength just as from position of weakness.
I mean stuff like on Tinder, she asks me what am I looking for there. And I usually look at the girl and based on what I look for *with her*, I answer. And it usually goes downhill. So lately, just today actually, I said "well, I am not exactly looking for a scrabble partner, what about you?" and she sent me this 5 row long text with lots of stuff in it.
Or like, I had a girl in a social circle, it was going well with her over text, just had to ask her out but I wanted to see if she is single first because I did not know so we talked about how she only has one good friend and that its almost as hard to find a good, honest female friend as finding a great guy. And I asked what its like when she already has both. And she replied why do I assume she does. And I let it be there for the day, but then in the evening I sent her some bullshit, precise wording would be "Because that is the positive option, not having that would be negative. And you strikes me as a girl who would rather wait for the right guy rather than to be with a wrong one just to be with someone". And then, we met at campus, it was weird, it shifted to a nice conversation about school basically... kill me. This one I understand why it is bad, but sometimes, it just sucks. You misplan something and she seems bothered and you try to explain where you made the error but she does not care. All she cares about was the outcome and that I screwed up. And I guess the only option is to accept women are this way and simply not explain myself to them.
Cheers”
There are a lot of important realizations in this comment from Mr. Shark - I'll list them out:
- As you explain yourself, a girl gets bored with and ignores you
- She does not care about your (logical) explanations
- If you swap out explaining with flirting, she'll get interested
- She doesn't care about your reasons, only the outcome
Thus, the lesson of today's article is this:
Never, ever explain yourself to women.
At least not in a logical, boring, factual (or defensive) way.
Now, let me explain.
Comments
Qualifying?
Nice post on qualifying indeed ;)
What Does She Want to Feel?
Hi Chase, instructive article.
I have a question though. You mentioned a couple of times that a girl just wants to feel first and foremost rather than logic'd, but you didn't mention what emotions she wants to feel or avoid feeling -- if I had to guess I'd say excitement and submission for the former, and awkwardness for the latter.
Also, do responses like the flirtatious "trip in Africa" one really make her feel something (positive, potentially arousing)? And if so, what?
Thanks in advance.
What She Wants to Feel, Rejection-Then-Retreat
Mike-
I'm sure I have it somewhere on here (and it's in my book as well), but some of the major emotions girls want to feel include:
Trips to foreign places will make many girls feel excited, but not all. You have to gauge by the girl. Some girls (those with dreams of traveling / exploring / seeing the world) find this kind of sequence very amazing. Those are the girls who'll play along with the role-play.
For the sake of usefulness, I used an example where the girl doesn't get into it. In this case, the 'trip to Africa' bit actually serves a separate purpose for her. For the girl who gets into it, it piques her emotions; for the girl who doesn't get into it, it serves as a rejection-then-retreat (which increases compliance).
Rejection-then-retreat works by proposing something very big, then retreating to something comparatively smaller. The comparatively smaller offer now seems much more reasonable in contrast to the larger one than it'd seem if you'd just offered the smaller offer first. e.g., "Let's go to Africa! Okay, well, let's just go to my place," will tend to be more convincing than just coming out and saying, "Let's go to my place."
Also, it shows your fun side, and girls want to spend time with guys who are fun, even if they aren't 100% on-board with the type of fun the guy has to offer (maybe she isn't that excited by a trip to Africa. But a fun guy proposing it still beats a stick-in-the-mud).
Chase
Very helpful. Thanks again!
Very helpful. Thanks again!
Follow-up
You mentioned amazement. Does this include her being amazed at, say, your skating or dancing prowess/skills for example?
Amazement
Mike-
Anything that blows her mind. Your prowess in a field (like skating or dancing) can certainly serve this purpose.
If you tell her an incredible story, or she sees you do something unexpected and great (if you're good with people, sometimes some of your social maneuvering, or even how you deal with things with waiters and clerks, can serve this purpose), these will do the trick too.
But yeah. Amazement is usually tied to either something you do that she sees, or something you've done that you tell her about.
You can also generate amazement by showing coincidental connections... i.e., you met her randomly on the street but it turns out you know a lot of the same people. But this type of amazement is weaker than the amazement she feels when she amazed by you.
Chase
Pre-opening
Hey Chase,
It's been awhile, but still good quality topics :).
It's almost a new year since you posted the socially helpless article. I cannot forget that ;)
Starting to see different kinds of people out there in social world.
Particularly people who come off as morally correct, when it's just bizarre (feeling). Like an apology for what happened but in turn blaming you by saying "You should have done that! I didn't know X"
"Woman, are you apologizing or are you lecturing me?"
I actually said that (with a huge smile) just to see what happens anyway. meh~
She then starts saying "It's common courtesy to let you know"
Hahaha first precedent apology I've ever heard needs common courtesy to let the other party know haha!
Enough with my tangent.
Re: Article
Does this apply to when women say their favourite word?
"Why?"
"You are the best X"
"Why?"
To self: Excuse me, I complimented and you ask me why? Dafaq fishing compliments?
Re: Preopening
Do we follow up with direct only to resolve the tension from PO,
or is situationally relevant or other openers fine too?
Noting the tension.
Happy holidays bro!
Good to see you're well and still active!
Lawliet
Re: Pre-opening - The correct answer to 'Why?
The correct answer to 'Why?' is almost always 'Just because.'
That's it. No reasons - just because.
Cheerio,
Openers to Use with Pre-Opening
Lawliet-
Yes, most women are masters at shifting blame. The best thing you can do is pay attention to what they're doing and learn it. You won't want to always use it yourself, but it's handy to keep in your utility belt for when you need to use it.
As for "Why?", yes, you may use it for that (and I sometimes do):
You don't always have to answer that way. Sometimes you can tell her why:
That's fine too. However, Dud's answer ("Just because") is the simplest and best. You'll notice all the very socially savvy women you encounter will use it with you too.
As for pre-opening, direct can work great, but just bear in mind it's quite polarizing. She will basically either love you or hate you if you use a pre-open followed by a direct opener. If you want less extreme reactions, playful/nonverbal works great with pre-opens; indirect-direct works well too. Situationally relevant I find can work very well, if you have a playful air about you as you open.
Chase
How is this Chase, I often
How is this Chase, I often get asked by girls if I'm out alone.
I usually just say "Of course! It's so much fun!" or something along those lines usually with a big smile and strong eye contact. I think i'm explaining what I do properly but its some words because I genuinely enjoy heading out by myself.
Answer to "Why are you out alone?"
Raqimuse-
Yes, that's fine. If you come across more authoritative and higher energy, you can pull off concise expalantions like that. The feeling the girl gets is it's you kind of say, "Well, DUH, yeah!" but in a warm, playful way. So it's good.
Chase
Rational man
Hi Chase,
thank you for an interesting article. But I wonder whether girls sometimes not only test our reactions, but also are really interested in information we could give them. After all, while women may be more emotional than men, they still have logic and seek for information.
But there is another thing. You advice not to explain myself to a woman, not to discuss or argue with her logically, not to talk overly logical... But it can be quite difficult if you are a rational logical guy. According to MBTI typology I am an INTJ, i.e. the most logical, theoretical, analytical and the least expressive and spontaneous personality type. I like intellectual stuff, theorizing, logical and factual conversations (of course, the funny ones as well) and I do not express much emotions (it is difficult for me), I am not very passionate, adventurous or thrill seeker. I am much more rational and logical than spontaneous. I am not life-of-the-party type, I do not have as much energy as more outgoing people... Sometimes I am spontaneously factual or logical - that means that when someone tells me something, the first idea in my head is "here is X factual mistake" or "there is Y faulty logic". It is my personality type as well as my professional deformation since I do phd and work as an analyst. I know that most of the time it is not good to correct people or analyze everything, but sometimes it requires a lot of discipline not to do that. And sometimes I do not know what to do or say instead.
So if you advice not to be logical and rational with women, you basically say to repress my natural inclination. I found balance how to do that in common situations, but it is more difficult with women. On the other hand, it is sometimes liberating when I meet my nerd friend with whom I do not have to censor myself and be logical and factual as much as I want.
Do you have some advice for men who are more rational how to do that if they do not want all the time repress their natural inclination and force themselves to be emotional or fake emotional expressions to be more flirty if they do not feel like it? I know that relations with women are about handling my and her emotions, that is why the more rational men have a lot of trouble with it.
And one more point: Some time ago I replied to your post “Is it ever okay to date a feminist?” (here http://www.girlschase.com/content/it-ever-okay-date-feminist ) where I described some overlap between what you write and feminism. But you did not reply. I am interested in what you think about it, but I do not know whether you read it or not, whether you intend to reply/write an article or to avoid reaction at all…
I can add one point to my 5 item list on similarities between GC and feminism: You want men to be more smooth and calibrated – so do feminists, their struggle with harassment is about it (mostly harassment is just terrible calibration).
Thank you
Anonym
Women and Logic; Feminism vis-a-vis GirlsChase
Anonym-
Yes, sometimes women legitimately want information from you. If a girl legitimately wants information from you in a courtship, that is typically a sign that the emotional aspect of the courtship is lacking for her, and now you are competing to win her over logically. Which you still sometimes can do. But now it's shifted into much more of the traditional "woman tests, man impresses" dynamic. And it's going to depend on how well you stack up logically to her other potential mate prospects. If you have a great job or career prospects, or some other logically exciting things about you, this can work sometimes. Other times you may just explain yourself out of contention.
Myers-Briggs... Sure, yeah. I'm an ENTJ. Right on the borderline really; I'm between introvert and extravert. Ambivert, really. Which is what the majority of people are. So ANTJ I guess you'd say. But I'll tell you: it's a totally different world as soon as you stop taking what women ask and say at face value. The moment the light bulb goes off where you realize X doesn't mean X to girls, but rather Y, Z, and A, you go, "Ohhhhh... Boy, that was dumb of me. Here I was explaining myself to her and she DOES NOT CARE!"
Language is an imperfect communication form. A 'perfect' (or almost perfect) communication form would be if you could form a bridge between your mind and her mind and she could instantly sync her brain with yours and find out if you are a mate she wants or not. But because language is all she's got, it's what she has to use. However, she can't straight up ask you the things she wants and get a truthful answer. She can't ask you, "Are you a man beautiful, high value women want to be with?" and get a truthful, non-self-serving answer. She can't ask you, "How well or how poorly will you treat me if I go home with you? If I sleep with you? Am I going to feel bad about myself tomorrow if I go with you?" Because of course you'll tell her whatever you think she wants to hear to get her into bed.
So instead, she'll test you, and gauge your responses. What she's looking for is not the facts, but the nature of the responses. Do you communicate confidence? Bitterness? Warmth? Rebelliousness? Uncertainty? Success with women or failure with women? Who is this man she's speaking with?
What I'd suggest is reading (or rereading) the article on not taking women at face value. Then going out and trying to remind yourself of that constantly in conversations with women until it clicks.
The moment it clicks, you are going to go, "Ohhhhhh...!" And you will immediately feel liberated.
The next realization after that is that most people, most of the time, do not care about logic. And that logic is inherently self-serving (i.e., a good debater can construct a convincing argument around any point - including two completely opposing points).
Re: feminism, I recall I saw your comment. However, you didn't have specific questions in it, and I didn't want to dive into political commentary unnecessarily. Superficially, you're right, there is a great deal of apparent overlap between the trimmings of feminism and Girls Chase. The difference is in the motive, the delivery, and the messenger.
Girls Chase is men critiquing men, with the aim of giving men insight they can use to get more sex, girlfriends, and better relationships. Feminism is women critiquing men, with the aim of making life more pleasant for women and getting men either out of the way of women or to actively self-sacrifice for women ('feminist male allies'). The fatal flaw of modern third wave feminism, however - and the one you see a lot of the older feminists hang their heads about - is that third wave feminism is a self-refuting theory. It goes like this: women are strong and independent. Therefore, we need men to not criticize us, not feel bad for us, lift us up into various positions we earned not by merit but because we want to join the boys' club, and just generally nurture us and protect our emotions. The entire premise of the movement is a non-sequitor. You cannot gain 'empowerment' by asking other people to lift you up or get out of your way. All that is is asking for special favors and handicaps.
That ends up being the biggest differentiator between feminism and GC. The very crux of this site is about the fact that nobody owes you anything. Feminism pays lip service to 'equality', while pushing almost exclusively for handicaps. Which is why most men in the manosphere resent it so much; rather than feminism saying, "Okay, women! Here's what you need to do to improve yourselves and compete with the men on their own terms!", it is instead just the 21st Century equivalent of the nagging old 19th Century marm wagging her finger at the boys telling them how they're supposed to act and what they're supposed to do.
(and I do realize there is a distinct minority of women who call themselves feminists and are completely against this nagging of men, begging for special privileges, etc. However, much to those women's misfortunes, they are neither the drivers of the modern movement, nor its most vocal voices, and thus they are not the voices who define the modern feminist movement - much as its leaders might like to point to them and claim diversity within the movement as an attempt to stave off any and every critique)
Chase
Rules for LTR
Its been a few weeks since I read the articles. Just catching up.
Sometime back I read an article about your rules for girls in a relationship: like don't fight in public, don't lie. I don't mean to pry but can you please tell us more about it.
Thank You all for your wisdom :)
Re: Rules for LTR
Sid-
My rules for a long-term relationship? Sure... I'd have to think about it. They're mostly not conscious, it's more of an "I know it when I see it" kind of deal. Something happens and it's - "Whoa. She should know better than that."
Off the top of my head, my rules for girls to follow are:
I'm sure there are a bunch more, but I'd have to sit and think. I'm not a machine so of course my reaction to any of these is going to depend on the girl and the circumstances. I've seen far too many people state things like, "These are my rules, and anyone who breaks them is OUT!" and then you see the person in real life and see how many times his girlfriend breaks these rules of his and he doesn't do anything, and all you can do is laugh and ask him, "What happened to your rule, dude? I thought that was absolute!"
So rather than 'rules', per se, I suppose a more accurate way of describing these would be "If you want to see Chase get very pissed off and/or lose all interest in you whatsoever, do one of these."
Chase
New and Improved
Chase,
So it's the end of the year and I'd like to start the new one off right!
I wanted to ask more questions, but it has to mostly deal with life.
There's 3 parts that I wanted to ask about.
A. This first part is about going out alone and friends.
1. How can I be comfortable to go out alone to clubs, bars, etc mostly?
I'm at the stage right now where I just rather depend on myself to go out, I always feel that I need to be with someone so I won't feel awkward, but I want to change that.
2. For some odd reason people just don't give a fuck about me and I don't know why. I have always treated people well, and even follow the stuff you say with regarding friends. From friends to family they just don't care about me at all for some reason. What can I do to fix this?
3. How can I find friends that would really care for me and have my back?
B. For some odd reason people just assume I'm soft, it's nothing crazy, I have respect, but they mostly don't take me too serious. I don't try to be a tough guy or anything, but that might have to change. It's getting to the point even chicks say it. And they say I'm a nice guy, that shit has got to go!
1. Do you think smiling and laughing too much shows that? I'm usually a cool dude, so I laugh and Joke about everything, should I switch it up and be more serious?
2. People always make smart remarks to me that make no sense, I'm thinking it's because they think I'm soft. These would be people I think I'm cool with, so I wouldn't try to act tough against them, but I guess I do.
I have tried to be more serious with people, and show a mean scrowl on my face, it's just feels try hard and doesn't work.
So what can I do stop being labeled as soft and these smart comments without trying to be a fake tough guy?
C. I know many people make resolutions, but don't do shit. I don't want to be those people, I want to change my life for the better starting next year and forever.
1. How do I not just say something, but actually do it? How do I just do what I say I'm gonna do and not make a fake resolution?
2. There's things I want to change as a person, how can I stick to the change? I want to change my mindset and attitude. How do I change that permanently?
3. I really want to stop being lazy, I want to do more, it's hard for me to get out of this loop with sleeping in all day and being on my phone. What can I do to change this ? And to keep the change?
I want to be the new and improved Sub-zero!
Resolutions
SZ-
Going out alone: exposure. It's the only way. I will say that for me, while enough exposure made most of my paranoia about "people will think I'm so weird!" or "10 guys are going to fight me!" recede, I did not get truly completely at ease going places along until I'd picked up enough girls solo that I was able to look at myself and say, "The women I want to sleep with do not care that I am alone. Cool guys also do not care. And there's no one else here whose opinions I care about except for cool guys and women I want to sleep with."
People not caring about you is 100% value. Real value + perceived value. If people don't care about you, they don't see the value you have to offer. I suggest giving these articles reads or rereads:
Friends that care about you and have your back - start offering value that other people value. Then screen for reliable friends. Then spend enough time with them and build legitimate connections with them. Value + screening + time is the formula.
Smiling and laughing too much can be a problem. You can smile and laugh, you just don't want to be the guy who smiles and laughs, all the time, whenever someone says something remotely humorous. High status men laugh; low status men laugh a lot, because they use laughter to curry favor and demonstrate in-group feelings.
The best thing I can say on being imposing is to go reread this article:
If you just do that, and that alone, people will quit viewing you as soft.
As for resolutions:
Write yours down. Don't tell anybody. Keep it to yourself. Then do it
Same thing. Do it daily for at least 30 days. Preferably 90. But aim for 30 to start
Set your alarm and get up early. Jump out of bed as soon as it goes off. After a week, you'll be used to it. Phone - let it power off. Then leave it powered off. All day. Go meet people in the real world instead
As for telling girls what you do, no, I don't discuss that with girls ever. I just don't see the point. I treat it like how I imagine the mafia must treat their business and personal lives: zero overlap. When I have to do business, no girlfriends in the room. Honestly, it's fun like that.
I just don't go into details. If a girlfriend says, "I don't know exactly what you do," I just shrug and look bored. If she presses for details, I just give her a boring expalnation about how marketing works and conversions work and whatnot. If she asks to see something I work on I just tell her yeah, sure, I'll send that to you when it's ready sometime. The more bored and annoyed someone feels when asking you about what you do, the less she is going to want to know about what you actually do.
Chase
A separate question for the
A separate question for the article Chase,
I read your response about what to say to a girl of she asks what you do, those are cool responses, but I feel I wouldn't feel right saying that stuff.
What should you say when you do have a job and a girl wants to know what you do, but you don't feel like answering?
Do you tell her not to worry about it?
When do you tell her the truth or you don't ?
Like you for example, I know you say that you don't tell girls what you really do, so what do you say, do you ever tell your girls what you really do as the relationship progresses or do you keep the story the same?
What are other good things that you could say when asked this question?
Thanks Chase
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