Barriers to Entry in Pickup and How They Affect Success


We’ve discussed various different avenues men use (and you can tap) to meet new women on here in the past:

pickup barriers to entry

I favor of cold approach personally, but you can certainly make social circle or workplace dating or online work, and in fact that’s how most men meet their women.

And that’s what I want to talk about today: how you meet women and barriers to entry to those avenues.

Because in a lot of ways, meeting girls is just like doing business, and barriers to entry are no exception; the lower these are, the higher the competition, and the tinier the rewards.


pickup barriers to entry

A barrier to entry is basically how hard is it to jump into any one new business, sport, hobby, activity, social group, etc.

So, for instance, if you’re looking at business:

  • The banking industry has fairly high barriers to entry, in terms of both the amount of money you need to start your own bank, and the number of regulations you need to satisfy before you can legally function as a bank

  • Conversely, blogging has an extremely low barrier to entry – you can do it for free with zero setup costs and immediately be “in business”

And then of course there’s a whole spectrum in between the two ends, too.

The higher the barrier to entry, the more difficult it is to get into a certain market.

And, typically, the higher the rewards of that market are as well.


Photography vs. Cola

Here’s a different example.

Let’s say you’re deciding between two lines of work.

The first is a career as a photographer. You’ll probably start off taking wedding pictures and birthday party pictures, and then work your way up to some other kind of photography that interests you more – maybe photojournalism, or wildlife photography.

The other is a business making and marketing your own brand of soda pop. You’d be going into the cola business.

Which one is harder to get into?

Obviously, the soda business is WAY harder to get into. Before you can even think about going to market, you’ve got to have:

  • Your own distinct, independent, appealing recipe
  • Your own labels and bottles
  • A production factory and a bottling plant
  • Distribution channels set up to get your cola in stores or restaurants
  • Optionally, marketing and advertising in place to get more customers

Add to all this the cost – you’ve got to hire the recipe designer; you’ve got to hire a graphic designer to come up with labels, and a packaging designer to design the bottle; you’ve got to buy the ingredients, and hire out the production factory and the bottling plant; you probably need to pay people to go around and set up distribution channels for you – how do they get you into the supermarkets; and of course you need long-haul truckers to take your product from plant to retail location.

You could start local and do it all on a budget, of course, but even then, it’s STILL a LOT harder than picking up a camera and shooting pictures.

Not only are the barriers to entry higher starting your own cola company, but the competition is FIERCE – cola is mostly a commodity at this point, and between Pepsi and Coke the market is pretty well covered. You’re going to have a tough time establishing much of a foothold there.

Contrast that to photography. All you’ve got to do to get started in photography is own a camera and find somewhere to solicit gigs.

You don’t even need a website for this. You can find them on Craig’s List in the “gigs” section. Tons of ‘em.

You won’t make THAT much money... in fact, probably not much at all.

But you’ll make some. Enough that it feels like, wow, I just started and already I’m making money!

Compare that to the cola business, where you’re bleeding money from Day 1 with returns a distant consideration.

You don’t even need an expensive camera to get started in photography. I’ve known people who started their photography careers using little handheld devices that probably set them back a hundred bucks.

The barrier to entry is much lower for someone going into photography, and the path to profits is much faster.

However, there’s a “but”. And it’s a BIG one.

And that is this: someone who’s intermediate at photography still is not making that much more than the pure beginner who’s going around stalking Craig’s List for work.

By comparison, someone who’s now intermediate at running a cola company is HUGE (compared to that intermediate photography guy). He’s pulling buckets of cash relative to the still-scraping-by photographer... by the time the soda pop company has become a regional hit and people in the area all love the company’s soft drinks, it’s doing booming business, compared to the moderately successful photographer who now has some regular clients and does decent business.

The intermediate photographer now does enough business that he can quit his day job and scrape by living a lower middle-class lifestyle out of his tiny photography studio.

The intermediate cola tycoon owns several nice family homes, bought and paid for, is rapidly expanding his business into other neighboring towns, and is getting his brand in front of more and more people with better and more effective marketing all the time.

And they only diverge faster from here.


Market Forces: At Play Everywhere

These are market forces at play in the cola vs. photography comparison, and the same exact ones are at play in the various avenues in seduction.

Any time you want to know how good and reliable the returns are for a specific avenue are, just ask yourself this to start:

How easy or hard is it to get going in this?

As a follow up question, you may also ask:

How many other people are already competing here?

pickup barriers to entry

The more people are doing it, the easier it is to get started, and the lower you know the barriers to entry are. The fewer people doing it, the harder a road it’s going to be.

Two easy examples in pickup would be commenting on girls’ photos on Facebook and Instagram vs. doing street pick up.

If you look at the two, what you’ll notice right away is:

  • There are LOTS of guys commenting up a storm on women’s pictures and status messages and pages and walls on various social media platforms in hopes of that somehow turning into a date; that means this has a very low barrier to entry

  • Conversely, there are few men walking around approaching pretty women on the street; therefore, this clearly has a high barrier to entry

Just like if you look at photographers vs. cola companies:

  • Everybody and his BROTHER is a photographer (or knows one... or five); if you want to find a photographer to take your pictures, you have a nearly limitless number of choices to choose from, even if many of these choices has a day job and is more of an after-hours photographer than anything. Clearly this is an area with a low barrier to entry

  • Alternately, you can probably count on one or two hands all the cola companies you know... this, obviously, is somewhere with high barriers to entry

(not to compare photography to guys clicking “Like” on a girl’s Facebook status update... at least a photographer is actually out DOING something and building a skill there... someone clicking “Like” is merely kidding himself that he’s “doing” something)

This is what barriers to entry are in pickup. They’re how easy is something for most guys to do, and, related to that, how many guys are doing it.

The easier it is, the more guys are doing it... and, generally, the lower the ceiling is on how well you can expect to do with as you progress through the “levels.”


pickup barriers to entry

There’s a “level cap” on every avenue for meeting women – an ultimate rough range of total success you can expect to get when you are among the best guys at using that avenue.

There’re also rough ROIs you can expect to have for each of these at lower levels, too.

The IMPORTANT thing is understanding what each of these is... especially before you throw yourself wholeheartedly into any one avenue... or coast into one out of sheer inertia and get stuck there.


The Success Ceiling

Because there are multiple (and often very DIFFERENT) kinds of success you can aim for when meeting women, where the success ceiling is depends on what sort of success you’re looking for.

Are you looking for:

  • The sheer volume of women you can sleep with?
  • The sheer volume of attractive women you can sleep with?
  • The uppermost caliber of girlfriend you can expect to find?
  • Something else entirely?

Obviously, the avenues that give you access to the highest volume of women slept with don’t tend to be the same as the ones that provide you access to the highest caliber potential girlfriends, and vice versa. So these considerations are different.

To keep things simple, I’m only going to examine volume of women it’s possible to sleep with, and disregard other categories. That’s not because other categories aren’t important; it’s more because I don’t want to draw up a million different lists.

That being the case, here is my (very rough) grading of each kind of game based on the uppermost attainable level of success a man can hope to reach, volume-wise, with one of these:


Uppermost Volume of Sex Partners with (Per Week), for Top Guys

  • “Hot” celebrity: 15 to 25 (Wilt Chamberlain claimed 2.3 / day)
  • Celebrity social circle: 10 to 20 (close friend rolling with hot celebrity)

pickup barriers to entry

  • Attractive overseas casanova: 10 to 20 (in, say, the Philippines)
  • Talented pick up artist: 8 to 15 (in a conducive city)
  • Master online gamer: 8 to 15 (in a conducive city)
  • “Hot” local celebrity: 5 to 10 (college football star in big college town)
  • “Cool club” leader: 5 to 8 (head of coolest fraternity on big campus)
  • Conspicuous consumer: 4 to 7 (wealthy guy throwing around money)
  • Standard social circle: 2 to 5 (going out tons, good game, regular social circle)
  • Dating at work: 1 to 3 (unless working at a modeling agency, etc.)

Again, some pretty rough estimates there, but this is based on knowing, talking to, observing, and studying lots of different guys who were at or near the peak of ability in these different areas.

These are for the absolute BEST, and they’re if the guy is BOOKING it. If the guy has fundamentals out of this world, airtight game, and is in the best possible niche for him to be gaming in. Most will never get anywhere near these numbers, and even the best will rarely have weeks where they hit volumes at this level. Most highly skilled guys in each of these arenas will be at half or a third of these numbers at peak performance (and will be pretty happy to be there).

(side note: if you are or know someone in one of these categories who exceeds these numbers, please do share in the comments, and provide details – exactly what kind of game is being run, what the numbers are, how consistent they are, etc. These numbers are rough, so if you know of exceptions, I’d be happy to be proved to be underestimating here)

Now let’s look at the other side of the equation: what’s it look like for guys who are just starting out?


Uppermost Volume of Sex Partners with (Per Week), for Newbies

Now, how about when you’re starting out?

Let’s keep all those avenues in order, but look at guys just getting going in them:

  • “Wannabe” celebrity: 0 (nobody knows who this guy is yet)
  • Name dropper: 0 (not actually friends with any celebrities)
  • Clueless overseas casanova: 0 (he thought this would be so easy...)
  • Novice pick up artist: 0 (here come the rejections)
  • Novice online gamer: 0 to 2 (he actually gets some results!)
  • “Wannabe” local celebrity: 0 (he’s a DJ, but he doesn’t have any gigs)
  • “Lame club” leader: 0 (D&D club president, ladies? Any takers?)
  • Wannabe conspicuous consumer: 0 to 1 (buying her drinks is not impressive)
  • Standard social circle: 0 to 1 (occasionally gets lucky)
  • Dating at work: 0 to 1 (occasionally gets lucky)

Notice that here the guys who aren’t at 0 all the time are almost across the board the guys at the very BOTTOM of the list ranking top to bottom of best performers at the top level.

In other words, when you’re just starting out, whether you want to be the next Leonardo DiCaprio (or David Blaine, rolling out with Leo to parties), or the guy who cleans up with doe-eyed girls in the third world, or the guy who picks up girls off the street like pie, or the guy whom every girl in town knows, adores, and lusts after, you’re going to have a pretty rough time of it starting out if this is the main thing you’re counting on for girls.

In fact, you’ll probably end up pretty frustrated watching all those guys working a lot less hard than you are still stumbling onto women from their workplaces, social circles, paid for drinks and meals, and clumsy online dating efforts.


The Level Cap Can Be Deceiving...

When you’re new, before you’re getting results, you will tend to find yourself getting frustrated pretty quickly because you see other guys working less hard than you getting better results than you.

That’s not necessarily because they’ve stumbled onto a “better method” though. It’s usually because they’re tapping one that has lower barriers to entry and is easier to get going in.

A guy who relies on work to meet women, for instance, will get laid some of the time. Chances are, even if he’s somewhat clueless, if he’s super focused on that as his avenue for meeting women and he’s actually taking action there (asking girls out, taking phone numbers, etc.), he’ll score eventually.

The aspirant pick up artist or future big time celebrity can have a difficult time of things at first though. Frequently, the biggest barrier to his own success is a lack of faith in his own ability to succeed – the guy who’s trying to sell himself as a hot stuff up-and-coming celebrity and the guy who aspires to be a great pick up artist frequently have a lot more doubt and hesitation starting out, since they’re trying something very ambitious that they don’t have any previous experience to back up and lend credit to their abilities to, and they communicate this doubt to women, which sends those women headed instead to their less ambitious but more confident competitors angling for those women from a social circle or online dating avenue.

Most guys who try going down a difficult path eventually throw in the towel and go back to social circle / workplace dating / online game. Most of the rest never even try one of those unconventional paths in the first place.

But for the men who hang in there and see it through, they get access to levels of success unattainable to men who pursue success through lower barrier-to-entry avenues.

The fewer men there are who succeed in a given (effective) avenue, generally, the more outsized the rewards are for the men who do.

Men starting out frequently don’t see this though... the process is mostly invisible to them, and they don’t get a good look at the various men at intermediate levels of development in all the different stages of progression.

They don’t see the guy who’s intermediate at pickup and sleeps with a few cute new girls per week.

They don’t see the local DJ who’s gotten some small town popularity and sleeps with a new girl every third or fourth show he does.

pickup barriers to entry

Instead, they just see the top, visible guys, getting laid like champs with beautiful women... and they see all the other guys AROUND them, hooking up with girls on occasion through more conventional means... and then they see THEMSELVES, undertaking this (potentially quixotic?) quest to become like those top guys, and the longer they try without attaining much of a result and the more success they see their less hard-working peers attaining, the more likely it makes them to jump ship and join everyone else in the lower barrier-to-entry arenas.

This pickup thing isn’t working, they say; let me get back to social circle building, and meet women naturally instead of trying and failing.

This cola company business is hard; maybe I ought to take a stab at getting a 9-to-5 instead, and make money instead of losing it.

In effect, they trade long-term high upside for short-term moderate upside... and miss out on all the very REAL long-term gains.

(caveat: this isn’t necessarily a BAD thing though, since by the very nature of those positions few men will become truly successful at a thing, nor care to; for most guys, the added sexual freedom and enjoyment – or the larger selection of higher caliber girlfriends – that comes with making it to the top of a difficult skill learning curve isn’t worth the trouble of getting there)


Why’s It Work This Way?

Again, market forces.

Obviously, preselection plays a major role – women want the men that other women want. So once you reach “critical mass” in your desirability... where your behavior just shifts because your reality with women changes so dramatically... you become more or less permanently very desired by women no matter where you go or what you do, because they can just smell it on you.

But there’s more to it than this, because before you can get that preselection, you have to have a way of meeting women that works.

So why do the ways that work, work?

Much of that we’ve discussed in articles like the one on male authority: if you look at most of the top men from those lists, they’re universally all men that women view as authorities within their own domains:

  • A hot celebrity is someone with large personal power in a society

  • Someone close to that celebrity has his ear/power, and may even control him

  • An attractive overseas casanova is far more in charge of his life than the average girl he meets is – she’s at home, but he’s taken charge and traveled abroad (he also brings fresh genes and the promise of adventure and excitement, not to mention discretion and freedom from the judgment local men place upon her)

  • The talented pick up artist is someone who’s trained extensively in coming across to women as a dominant, attractive, suave authority figure

  • The master online gamer is like a pick up artist of the web – he rapidly breaks down women’s frames, then builds them back up again as an authority will

  • The local celebrity and cool club leader head up their respective groups, and obviously have social capital for having made those places cool, or for having made it to the top of the pile of places that were already cool

Contrast that with these same men when they’re starting out, however:

  • A wannabe celebrity has non-existent social pull; likewise for his friends

  • A clueless overseas casanova just seems like some sleazy loser guy who couldn’t get laid at home so moved abroad

  • The novice pick up artist comes across as someone so hopeless with women that he has to go scour the streets to meet them, and still gets rejected

  • The novice online gamer just seems like yet another of the faceless multitude of men barraging women’s inboxes with the same repetitive messages again and again

  • The wannabe local celebrity and the leader of the uncool club seem like they’re trying to offer value and be in charge... but can only settle for low value places women don’t want to be a part of anyway

... and you can quickly see why it’s such a stark difference between the men at the top here, and the men at the bottom. The only one who gets laid sometimes (assuming these guys pursue no other angle, like social circle, which in fact they probably will – but they’ll get laid off of that, NOT this other angle) is the online dater, who maybe occasionally hits on just the right message to stand out, or, if he’s lucky, is good looking enough that women want him regardless how unoriginal his messages and profile are.

Now let’s have a look at the other three: the conspicuous consumer, the standard social circle guy, and the workplace dater.

Take a really cool, attractive guy throwing a lot of money around, vs. an average guy throwing a little money around. Different sides of the room, yes, but they’re still in the same room. Both guys are having to spend to get laid.

That’s very different from the other examples above, who were relying on social capital to get laid. The spender’s relying primarily on a show of financial resources.

He never reaches the point where women are beating each other back for a chance with him, like they do for me with large amounts of intrinsic social capital.

Next, have a look at the standard social circle guy. Again, you can have the super cool, attractive guy operating in a normal social circle, and you can have the average guy operating in a normal social circle. Here, there’s still a big difference between the two, BUT how much a difference in their outcomes this difference makes is muted because the structure of social circles forces women to behave more conservatively with the men within them. It makes more sense for a talented social circle guy to work himself into a leadership position in a cool group like the leader of the “cool club” than it does to just stay in a standard social circle.

The guy at work fares worst of all. Even if he makes it to “boss”, he STILL doesn’t get laid all that much. He maybe sleeps with one of his cute employees every so often, but even if he’s very attractive, well, women tend to be on their best behavior at work, and are super discreet – even more so than in a standard social circle – because this isn’t just their reputations at risk here, but their careers, and they know it.

For these reasons, the places with the lowest barriers to entry also, for the most part, have the lowest caps on how much success a man can expect to have with the women within them.


Keep Barriers to Entry in Mind

There’s not much actionable advice I can give you in this article except for: be very mindful of barriers to entry when deciding where to focus your efforts.

You can further boil down barriers to entry into as many different subcategories as you want; the barrier to entry of running shopping mall game vs. lounge game, for instance (most men will be more comfortable starting off in lounges, and have more luck here at first, but shopping malls will typically ultimately prove more fruitful if you devote equal time to both and become very skilled at both).

This is just a mindset in general to have; I see a LOT of people get excited about low barrier to entry stuff because it looks “easy”, but what they invariably miss is that the easier it is, the more competition there is, often the lower the quality of the returns are, and the lower the potential upside usually is.

(I’m guilty of it, too; I started meeting girls in nightclubs that was easiest for me, and I started business by blogging because that seemed easiest. If I had to go back and do both over, I’d tell myself to start in very different places and just suck it up until I was winning – do day game instead of night game starting out, and focus on Internet marketing and forget about blogging starting out. If you still want to do those things later, do them then... but you probably won’t want to once you’ve aced a higher upside angle!)

So – before you get too excited about something (anything!), check out the barriers to entry first. If everybody’s doing it, you can expect to get SOME success... PROBABLY... but not a whole heck of a lot (and perhaps nothing, if it’s SUPER low barrier to entry, like catcalling or Facebook commenting or building apps for smart phones or blogging – ones where so many people are doing them that the results are just horribly diluted and watered down... like sharing a $10 million winning lottery ticket with 70 million other people).

If a LOT of success is what you want, look for the things that are harder to get going in, but pay off much more once you reach the later levels.

In the case of success over the long term, barriers to entry are your friend.

Chase

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Chase, how to handle a


Chase,
how to handle a situation where you are uncomfortable.
I get it in classes. If the teacher is kind of reprimanding me
in class, some students who dislike me try to take advantage
of it, pointing out my defaults.
I end up getting tons of questions from the teacher based on
what the others said.
I kind of panic and find it hard to be in control. I do not want
to defend myself saying ," It's not true, I never did this, the guy is lying!!!"
What body language, voice tone, facial expression or anything else would
you advise me to do , I want to appear clearly control.

David Riley's picture

Higher Power


Hey Anon,

I would actually talking to your teacher after class and tell how you would appreciate if he didn't reprimand you in front other students like that. Very rarely have a seen classrooms where the teacher would be reprimanding a student and other students would get in on the action. That's actually something I would recommend taking to the principal. Explain to the principal the situation and ask him to mediate between you and the teacher. Now if this in college then I would bring it to the dean or department head. Hope that helps.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Patience


Hey Chase, i have an off topic question.

Patience is a virtue - goes the saying.

I ask, what do you think of this ?
As a general life question, not just in seduction, but in work, friendship, taking and delivering tasks and obligations..

Do you think having patience will benefit in the long run or should you just jump into action when the thought arrives in your head ?

These situations are the likes of, wanting higher salary, calling more often than not ( when not being answered ), etc, etc.

I think there are times when i have to analyze things more and pick the right moment to act, and times when i don`t analyze at all and just jump into action often not prepared...

I am asking you, a sort of a life question, rather than the normal seduction type questions..

Thanks in advance.
Have a nice day.

jack's picture

Master online gamer: 8 to 15


Master online gamer: 8 to 15 (in a conducive city)"

Wow, you know on-line gamers that can fuck 15 new girls in a week? I guess he'd have to book 2 a day and then close. Impressive. I've never seen that degree of talent with on-line game.

"Talented pick up artist: 8 to 15 (in a conducive city)"

I've seen guys get with 5 or 6 in a week. But only after they busted their ass approaching girls every night and day. 8-15 is top .03%.

"Attractive sex tourist: 10 to 20 (in, say, the Philippines)"

I don't think you mean sex tourist. A sex tourist is a guy that travels to (usually 3rd world) countries for prostitutes. Rio and Bangkok and Riga are prime examples. I think you mean the international player types like Krauser and Torero that do "Euro-jaunts" and the like for 3 - 4 week stretches. 10-20 girls in a week without paying for it would require not only great game but something else to boot. A guy would have to package significant wealth and status as well.

But all in all this was another great article. You have positioned yourself as one of the more mature PUA/Seducer sites on the web. Far better than Manospherean malevolence.

Chase Amante's picture

"Sex Tourist"

Author

Jack-

Yes - requires some pretty flexible scheduling! And, usually, a very big city, years of online game experience, and incredibly attractive photographs.

8 to 15 for pickup... I've seen a few, yeah. Usually they have a certain angle that they work very well. If you're just going for pure numbers, say in a competition, this could be fun, but you'll never do it regularly and won't be able to pull it off with a day job... there just aren't enough hours in a day. Every guy I know who's batted over 10 in a week was a business owner and combined a light schedule with enough business owner super confidence (kinda goes with the territory) to post up the numbers he did.

You're right on "sex tourist" - my bad. I just changed that to "international casanova"... there's not really a term for it. For someone who's a true sex tourist, incidentally, since he's paying for it, I'd say the sky's the limit... I've had several friends who've indulged in foursomes and moresomes with their working girls or escorts, and you can do that every day! Not my taste, but different strokes for different folks, I s'pose...

Chase

ExpectTheBest's picture

Great Article!...Question...


Thanks for the helpful info!

This article was truly encouraging. I find myself working in a very high barrier to entry industry. I am aiming for the top and I am determined to make it, but it can be disconcerting seeing others having more success than I, with less effort.

However, this certainly won't stop me! -Especially now that I have a better understanding of what I'm seeing when I look at the lower barrier people.

I do have a question; would you consider writing an article about meeting women with high barrier to entry goals? I spend most of my time building my portfolio, gaining experience, getting certifications, and furthering my education in my field. How do I meet a great gal when she's just as busy as I am as she works to accomplish her own goals? Sometimes I feel as though I'll meet them only when we all make it to the top. (aye yi yi!)

The majority of girls I know are either mentally OR physically attractive...I want the ambitious boths lol

Should I just suck it up and wait til I reach the top or is there something I'm missing here?

Atentamente,
ExpectTheBest

David Riley's picture

Noted and Here's a Link


Hey Expect,

I'll make a note to inform Chase and the other authors of your request. In the mean time please a look at Professional Women

Take care,

Just Dave

ExpectTheBest's picture

Thanks


Thanks Dave,

I've read it twice now. I'll be sure to be on the lookout for new articles!

Atentamente,
ExpectTheBest

Bolt's picture

How to Carry Yourself When Rising to Celebrity Status


Hey Chase or Dave,
I'm currently creating music and plan on releasing my debut project next spring. Now I live in a huge college town where I also do a fair bit of picking up. I remember Chase saying that he actually became a hot local celebrity during his 20's. Dave, I also believe you said you played the guitar and used that in your arsenal for pickup. Now, since I'm not building up local celebrity status right now I can approach as freely as I want. My question is should I modify the way I do pickup after I start marketing my project and attempting to rise as a celebrity or could I still just approach the way I do now (street approaches, day game, and pretty much approaching anywhere & everywhere) without any negative results?

David Riley's picture

Extended Arsenal


Hey Bolt,

Yes, depending on what type of music you do you can add variation to your approaches. Last summer I was doing a lot of acoustic shows and meeting a cool array of women. Whenever I was I got bored I would play on the streets, and whenever I saw a good looking women I motioned her over. I wouldn't play her unless she dressed, while I played. ;) It worked really well, and other women would come over too. I would play either reggae music or latin tunes, I going for the more seductive route for sure. These days, I working on digital projects and trying to launch a blog helping out other musicians. You have a ton of excuses to talk to women as a musician. "Hey let me grab your opinion on music in our city." or "Do you prefer artist who are sexy or talented or both?"

The biggest thing about being musician and artist is networking constantly. Women will want to follow you on social media and such. I always laugh at my friend cause he women literally uploading selfies to him. The ironic part about it is his music is just okay. Women are more concerned of his looks. If you're a very attractive guy who does music, women will fawn over you. Especially, if you got a good looking body and can dance somewhat. When you get more of a celebrity status pick up will be a lot easier for you. Women will approach you and come talk to you. Here's the thing don't stop approaching no matter how "big" you get. Fame is like a season. One day you're relevant and the next day you're not. Hope that helps.

Take care,

Just Dave

Flames's picture

I'm not sure I follow.


Hi Chase,

Another interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with what your saying with types of game being any different. As you probably know I primarily just do work game which I now find really easy, but on the odd occasion I go clubbing I find that really easy too. I don't generally cold approach but I neither fear cold approach or find it fundamentally any different.

What I'm saying is that once you have the skills required (essentially the fundemental EC,BL and convo skills). I find that in not really trying in any form of game, regardless of what it's definition and I don't even really bother wondering what type of game it is I'm doing. So I'm not really sure where the barriers of entry apply. This maybe because I'm not going for a volume approach though.

On the other hand the actual concept of barriers of entry in the earlier part of your post is something I'd never even considered but is actually quite enlightening.

I also enjoyed your eye contact post from earlier in the week as this is where I started out on my self-improvement quest I've always had a fondness for these kind of posts, and although a difficult subject to explain I think you did a great job as ever.

Regards
Flames

Chase Amante's picture

Barriers Depending on Angle

Author

Flames-

Bear in mind, I'm talking about success rates following those specific angles.

You can certainly mix in multiple angles with different yields and get different returns... you're not stuck to just one.

So maybe a guy runs a cola company by day and practices photography by night. etc. In fact, I recommend multiple angles in everything to round out your game more - if you only know club game, say, or only know social circle, you'll sometimes find yourself in situations where you're really out of your element... better to at least dabble in everything, IMO - and then you'll have your specialties..

Chase

Jonas's picture

connections


Good morning,
Any ideas how much connections matter in life? I had a talk with my mother, she has been working with people for over 25 years. I live in a post-communistic country and she said that today, it seems even more about what connections you have in order to "succeed" or just achieve something big. Connections tie to interpersonal relationships, which I guess means personal value or that they like you and want to keep you around. And if you are a friend with a billionaire I am sure he will invite you somewhere where normally you would not be able to travel because it is too expensive but he wants you around so he pays it and things like this. Life seems to be much easier if you are friends with the right people. And all these barriers you talked about get thinner. I am currently fighting thoughts of how being a woman is 200% better. I dont want to start hating girls because some people tend to give them things and opportunities just because they are girls. Especially if they are attractive. But I think that people want to exude less effort if they deal with a guy as opposed to a woman. Mom told me how guy-to-guy negotiations seem fiercer because there is always that space for competition while when those guys dealth with her, they were "nicer". I am sure that top business guys who want to achieve their goal that they do nto differ. But my mom seems to have this personal appeal. And we have some extreme examples like Marylin Monroe. She recently started to work as a broker and stepped into a new world where what people try to earn in a month you can have with 1 contract. And if you set it up right, you can earn millions in a year. I am not asking what should I do so I can get those benefits. But since I am a loser I kinda wonder how to make my life easier and more enjoyable right now.

Thank you and have a nice day.

David Riley's picture

Article Links


Hey Jonas,

I would definitely agree with your mother, "It's what you know a lot of times, it's who you know." I'm going to share an article with you on the benefits of weak ties, people who you're familiar with but aren't really really close to. This is why it's important to never burn bridges.

Weak Ties and Strong Ties

Another article I want to share with you

The Success Factor with Women

Hope these articles help, I would also heavily encourage reading the whole success factor series as well.

Take care,

Just Dave

Wolf's picture

Not burning bridges post


Hey Chase, miss ya advice man, I see you comment here and there, and it gives me hope you and dave can go 50/50 on the comments. Daves done a good job with all the comments too. I just read colts latest post, and he talked about not burning bridges and how you say how to not break them either. But how does one not burn a bridge? I burn bridge's ALL the time, some people I just never communicate with because they don't keep in contact with me and hit me up first, some people I just cut off, say of a girl made me angry or we couldn't sleep together any more, id cut her off.

Could you make a post on not burning bridges,how to maintain bridges, who you should burn bridges with, and add the benefits of maintaining bridges with old friends and girls?

My main problems are this: if someone doesn't text me first, im never going to text them ever, if they don't try to keep contact with me, im not either. If a girl flakes or stops seeing me, I cut her off.

Thanks chase

David Riley's picture

Noted and Clarity


Hey Wolf,

Thanks for the kinds words, I will let Chase and the other authors know about this request. I do have some insight on not burning bridges I would like to share in the meantime.

My experience: There are just some people who just don't add any value to your life. They're negative, holding you back, and just seem to be self centered. Those are the people whom you want to avoid like the plague. The reason I'm saying this is because even if you're not a negative person, their words and actions can still affect your mind. Now some people in your life may not be the happiest person but say they're fun to watch sports with, they can be your sports buddy. The problem some people have in life is trying to make certain people fit into every aspect of their life. It's just not going to work because you end up trying to force a fit.

Now I'm not saying call the person up and tell them you're never going to talk to them again. People come and go out of our lives like seasons. One minute they're there and the next they're gone. You can't overwhelm yourself because you have to remember everyone has their own life to live. One thing I do, is keep the same cell phone number. This way if someone wants to call me up they can. I have people from my high school call me up every once in awhile. I had one of my best friends from junior high call me about an awesome party. The thing to remember is just because you don't talk to someone everyday doesn't mean you're not friends or acquaintances.

One of the last things I can highly recommend about not burning bridges is to not take things personally. Your life will be so much better if you don't let words affect you. Now I'm not saying let people walk all over you, but do give people space if they're in a bad mood. Regulate the people in your life. Don't let one particular person try to suck up all your time. Don't be afraid to tell people you want to do something different today. It's very important to put boundaries in your life. I would also make the note that it's sometimes hard to hold unto someone who doesn't care about you. On the last note, when you try to hold unto everything you end up dropping what you care most about,

Take care,

Just Dave

Wolf's picture

Success and Time


So I just got done reading the article and I have some questions. Think you could explain where a beginner to intermediate should expect the most success first and how long it should take to get there.( if you don't have an estimate of how much time a guy should expect before he achieves some success, you can just write when you started succeeding. )

Example of what I mean:
Easiest place to start picking up girls and getting success is to do day game.
Hardest is to do club game.
Time to achieve day game success takes 1-2 years.
Time to achieve club success takes 2-5 years.

I'm doing club game right now and im still a beginner. I've been doing it for 2 years and I still haven't slept with girls from there. I just got numbers, makeouts, and feels. I get my girls from social circle and work. Day game is still too hard for me.

I would mostly like a time frame of how long to expect some success and how many hours I should put in to make it go faster. I've been clubbing for 2 years and my results are horrible, but I only go out twice a week. I feel like I should be pulling within my first year and it sucks it's been 2.

Hope I made sense, if I didn't let me know and I'll try to fix it.

Thanks

David Riley's picture

Consistency


Hey Wolf,

Since you've started with club game I would stick with it until you've gotten the hang of it and have been getting laid consistently. I would say depending on how tight your actually fundamentals and how you actual push for closes, you could see results in 3 to 5 months. Now what mean define what results are, I'm talking about actual lays. When you go for lays and seeing the interaction as far as it will go, you'll see a greater increase in results. I would also say tracking your progress will help better you as well. I still use my past lays as a reference as well as my past fails.

You're looking to develop a consistent routine that will help increase your odds of getting laid. I would also say rotate around the clubs in your town as well. Check out different events, talk to different people. By now you're probably a regular, but no one really "knows" you per say. When I would dedicate 15 to 21 hours a week to actively approaching girls out in the field. Now your work schedule may not permit those hours. You want to try and fit into your schedule when you can. Since you're doing club game you may rely more heavily on weekend hours. It's up to you how you clock your hours. Overall you're looking for consistency. That's goes for what time you go out and how many girls your approach. Depending how determined you are, it could take about a couple years to master one area of game. Remember to work on your fundamentals every chance you can.

Take care,

Just Dave

J$'s picture

Day game


Chase you said you would rather have started with day game. But how can one even start off with day game if it's the hardest? I don't mean to get rewards, I mean how can a straight beginner with no luck with women start off with the hardest thing? The doubts, insecurities, and approach anxiety would be 10x worse if he has no type of good reference points. Im not saying it can't be done, but I would like to know how can one do it from scratch with no good reference points? To me it's like playing a game for the first time on hard mode when I don't even know how to play the game. I would just like to know what mindset to have when doing something so new and difficult.

Appreciate it.

David Riley's picture

Where I Started


Hey J$,

It's ironic because I actually started with day game first. I found girls were less confrontational if I approached them during the day rather than night. I ran into girls who were often bored and on break from work. I talk to girls who wear dressed provocatively as well. I went to the more relaxed parts of my town such as coffee shops, novelty stores, coffee shops and even parks. Girls were just excited to have someone cute to talk to. I went out to approach women with the mentality that they will like me. I would approach girls and just talk to them about life. We'd hit the beach and make out once we got there. I was just out enjoying life, if she said no I would just move on to the next one.

When starting out with any type of day, you have to remove the fear of failure from yourself. You have to accept not every girl is going to like you. The only one way to get better is to try. The number one way to fail is to never try. Guys put so much pressure on approaching women, that they have anxiety attacks. I encourage guys to take the girl off the pedestal, and realize she's not that special.
New guys can never learn to run if they never even began to crawl.

Take care,

Just Dave

Leo's picture

I actually slept with 4 new


I actually slept with 4 new girls once in a week. In college greek life, sororities host Formals, semi-formals, and crush parties in which the girls (usually 150 of them) select dates and will go to a prom-like setting. Anywhosies - this past spring I got dates to 3 different sorority formals (girls I met through cold approach at fraternity-sorority mixers) in which I slept with all 3 of 'em plus this new girl from class I'd been texting to go on a date with. I'm not the head of my fraternity and I'm a freshman so this would put me in the beginner social circle game but this is a very unique occurrence and the factors that lead to this were a bit of luck, teenage horniness, tons of alcohol and private hotel rooms; I am also very keen on my self-image so I have above average looks (as commented by girls). The stars aligned you could say, but definitely a very good week that I barely remember.

David Riley's picture

Congrats!


Hey Leo,

I'm glad to hear about your success and I wish you so more in the future. Those actually sound like some pretty great pulls. I definitely like how you played your options very well. Relying more on options instead of hoping things work out with one girl, keeps you leveled and saves time. You knew how to take action and made the opportunities happen.

All the best,

Just Dave

Driver's picture

Nice Article


Nice article man. Always enjoy seeing your insightful perspective. Would love to see your what an elite process in day game looks like. I know you have that article Ricardus wrote, but I don't think I've seen the man himself explain his process.

Edit: Just found your article on gaming girls shopping. Exactly what I was looking for, just didn't look hard enough.

Haraklus's picture

This is an eye opener as


This is an eye opener as someone who's an intermediate in social circle and "cool" clubs and a true beginner in cold approach pickup.

I've definitely seen more results from the cool activity clubs than social circle as I've learned to apply my sexy vibe, boldness, and so on towards that end. And it's a lot more winner takes all than social circle, by a long shot. (Which works for me)

However, my truly cold approach pickup street game is still pretty weak. The most I've gotten out of that is a date or two, and they were some of the worst dates of my life. However, it's worth it to try, I suppose. I keep hitting barriers that really do prevent me form consistently going out and picking up, but I'm working on them (some promising solutions coming up, in fact). It's yet another point driven home to me that I need to approach more.

David Riley's picture

Fundamentals over Anything


Hey Haraklus,

One benefit about cold approaching is if things goes south, it doesn't matter. Typically you won't ever see the girl again. Even if you do, she normally won't remember you. She may say that she's seen you before, but typically you can just play it off. One of the things to remember when cold approaching is getting the girl to warm up to you. It's sometimes a hit or miss, but you get better at selecting targets.

My mind frame: "Alright so let's see bitch face, she's got ear buds in, that one is smiling and looking around like she wants someone to talk to. I'll go for her!"
Me: Hi, you look like you're in a good mood.
Her: Oh yeah?
Me: Yeah I like girls who smile, I'm David
Her: Nice to meet you David, I'm Sarah

In the example above I selected a girl who looked like she actually wanted to have a conversation. Typically you'll have an easier time with cold approach with proper target selection. When you choose the wrong girl, you may bitch you out or blow you off. Fundamentals helps you select better girls and keep you from getting blown out the water. When you practice holding a conversation with a girl, approaching becomes easier. You learn to talk about things that's shes actually interested in. Some more tips include talking loud enough and making sure the girl knows you're actually talking to her. I'll hold my hand to stop girls or walk in front of them at times. You always want to open girls from the front or side and never from behind. Just some tips to keep in mind. Hope that helps.

Take care,

Just Dave

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