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In my article on how to take girls off their “scripts” (i.e., having them abandon whatever they’re doing or trying to do, and have them come be with you on your terms instead), a reader commented on a point of confusion:
“Moreover, you’ve even written an entire article on “disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend”. But in this [article on taking girls off their scripts], you suggest that its best to make clear what you actually want (even if that is to be her boyfriend).”
I understand his confusion. I should stress before we proceed that a big part of my approach with girls is to be inscrutable: I throw off conflicting signals so a girl can’t nail me down. Just when she thinks I’m a hookup-only guy, I ooze a little romance and her brain starts going crazy. “I thought this guy just wanted to hook up,” she thinks, “and yet he’s so romantic! Maybe it could be something more? What’s going on?! I can’t figure him out!”
This is the same type of mixed signaling you see characters like Simon in The Saint and Juan Antonio in Vicky Cristina Barcelona use (and that’s where I got it from, guys like this):
James Bond uses it a lot in his films. Christian Grey uses it. Every Byronic hero does, more or less. She thinks she knows what this guy is about... And then she doesn’t know what this guy is about. He’s so confusing. What is he about?
At some point, you have to let her figure out what it is you want though, and that’s the kind of ‘clarity’ I meant in the scripts article. She has to be reasonably certain that, “Okay, I think this guy wants to hook up with me,” or, “I think he wants to really date me.” The reason you want her to figure this out is because you want her to start imagining it. If before she was only in single-and-carefree mode, and you want her to be your girlfriend, she needs to think about becoming your girlfriend first.
This article is going to be about that. Or at least, some of that. Therefore, this one won’t be ideal for beginners... Since we’ll be talking about running, essentially, two kinds of game at the same time:
- One part sexy, bad boy hook up guy
- But also one part mysterious, inscrutable, romantic guy
You do not tell her you want her as more than
a fling, or even imply it with words. You want her to read between the lines with you.
You usually won’t tell her you want to hook up with her, either (unless
you’re Hector. Or Romanian).
This clarity is all implied... Which means it’s never completely clear.
And the reason you never make it completely clear?
You want her to choose you, and feel the choice is her choice.
Comments
RE: Trying to date asian girls who are conservative
Hi Chase!
I sort of have a question I have been hoping to find the answer to for a while but am not sure really where to look. I've bought your spellbinding book and even looked at a how to date korean women book done by one of your friends. However, to this day I am still not sure how to go after korean women who are raised in a conservative society. As an example, recently I met a korean girl and after going on a few dates with her, she wouldn't even try to really hug in public. I was told by my korean guy friends that korean girls tend not to do anything touchy feely public. After going out on 4 dates with her, I tried to go to her place (my place not logistically possible). She hemmed and hawed and said something like how she just moved in and her place isn't ready to have people over.
A lot of the techniques here are literal gold when it comes to american women or americanized asian women, but for asian women from asia, I am still having problems. For example, a lot of times when I propose to go home with a conservative asian girl on the the first or second date, they actually seem to get offended or completely creeped out. This never happens to me with americanized asian girls, who "get" the whole thing. I've never been able to date the more conservative ones because they tend to be extremely cautious and the techniques that would normally work for other girls fail here. It seems that they are into a boyfriend candidate all the time. I have tried a lot to disqualify, but these girls seem hard-wired to want a boyfriend, and the moment I disqualify, they are gone.
I was curious if you had any ideas or experiences what to do here. It seems with most conservative asian girls it takes up to 6-9 dates to really go anywhere. I have recognized that there exist a lot of conservative asian girls who do sleep with men fast, but it seems those are the more rebellious type, which you can usually tell. For the ones that tend to stay home, not drink, go to the library, etc, do you have any ideas how or if you would tailor everything?
Thanks Chase!!
You are right on all accounts
You are right on all accounts. I have a similar experience. Lover value just doesn't work that much in conservative asian culture, even in big urban areas. Most are seeking boyfriends, if not husbands. You can't move as fast as is advised on most game sites.
Girls You Do Well with vs. Girls You Don't
Asian Guy-
Wrote this article in response to your comment here:
Tactics Tuesday: Treat Her Hot and Horny
More specific to Asian girls (or Korean girls), don't worry about them not being touchy in public. Just because they aren't doesn't mean you cannot be. I suggest you touch her as much as she's comfortable with. If she likes you, she will not object to your touch, and particularly when she's from a culture without much touch, encountering a touchy man is thrilling. Touch from someone you like electrifies.
In addition, if she doesn't like you and doesn't appreciate your touch, sex isn't likely to be on the cards any time soon (there's a whole lot of touching in sex).
If girls vanish when you take yourself out of boyfriend contention, it means your boyfriend value is too high and other value isn't high enough. Assuming your goal is to be the lover, the goal is to reach the point where she doesn't even actively consider you as a prospective boyfriend, but still hangs around anyway because your presence is just so intoxicating. If you aren't there yet, the solution is better fundamentals + better game, rather than trying to approach her as an exception / different.
I'm not sure what you're saying / doing that's creeping out girls when you invite them home, but either the build up is off or the ask is off. Most likely the build up - even if the ask is clumsy, so long as you inviting her home is congruent with the course the date's been on it won't be creepy or offensive. The worst you should get (even if it's a rejection) is playful / flirty. Which suggests to me even more your problem is likely the one I talked about in the article (especially if you do okay with American girls). If you fix this, the only time a girl should get uncomfortable with an invite home is if you lost the frame battle and she had you framed as a platonic friend or helper (and then you broke frame and invited her home anyway).
Anyway, hope this helps. Start by looking for subtle differences in how you think about, treat, and behave toward Asian girls from Asia (whom you struggle with) vs. other girls (whom you don't struggle with), and modify from there.
Chase
This is now what I call an
This is now what I call an article and a half. We had this sort of discussion with my fellow friends and one of them said that the man chooses the woman but I and a few others disagreed. We told him that women are the ones who choose but the men are the ones that take opportunity by giving women value. Men have the ability to give value but the difference comes in choosing the type of value he would like to offer her. All in all it was a great article.
?
OK, I'm confused.
I never read before that beginners should act like that, so I'm confused about that.
How do you act like a boyfriend and still get laid on the same date?
pretty much, how do you act like a boyfriend, but not get put in the boyfriend zone?
I thought we all had to move fast and that's how we get laid.
do we pay for dates, move slow, no first date sex, take her to a restaurant???
Could you please elaborate more on that?
and what if a girl ask what do you want from her if you don't tell her outright? she might ask one day do you want her as a girl, do you just want to fuck?
all I can think of to answer that is "idk"
If you're confused
You probably want to step back and revisit this article in a few months. It's really just an extension of what Chase calls 'Abundance'. You're making it seem to her that she has a brief opportunity to pick from the one or two of your options that include her or you'll take one of your many alternatives; she doesn't get to find out what those alternatives are.
And my standard response to any of the ''Are you trying to seduce me?' type questions is a quizzical look, a brief pause then some variation of 'I like the way you think'/'You have some great Ideas.'
Chase, this article seems
Chase, this article seems like a mixed bag, it can be very confusing for the beginners in particular. It throws out all the move fast mantra and can lead to auto rejection. Moreover, it can be a recipe to screen in timewasters and cluster B's.
A random observation.. I have noted that girls who are just into you for validation and giving blatant AIs mostly announce to their friends, if not everyone, that you approached them and how it went. It is worse if she does it right after the approach and in front of you (happened to me yesterday. I looked at her giving a mock smile and a shake of head like i know what you are upto and its not cool) whereas, those who are into you keep the matter private and don't go around telling everyone. Is that correct? It could be a reputation thing on my part or a maturity thing on girl's part as the nice ones dont go crazy about it.
It would be a great help if you could tell the best course of action in a situation i'm in. Basically, it started mutually, great chemistry and fizzed out. She gave an AI and I refused to respond to it (no idea why I did that, even though I liked her even after the previous time it not working out. Maybe out of some pathetic sense of revenge? Or maybe I didn't want to come across as too eager and keep her waiting?) . BIG mistake. Approached her after a few days and as expected, auto rejected to the max. One word answers. Not even looking at me, just on her book. I walked away. Next she starts giving me eye contact (what is that about? Looking at you when in auto rejection. Always happens. Maybe a look of hate/disgust?). Since I still like her, got an oppurtunity to approach after some time aaaaand she was like what? and turned around :( ... So i came across as chasing at this point. My question is what could be done to offset the chase vibe (no offence :p )? To convey that no, i'm not fixated on you! Does approaching other girls in front of her or social proof reverse this?
Girls Who Use You for Status, Missed Invitations
Robinhood-
Yes, you shouldn't worry about this one too much when you're starting out. Save this level of strategy for once the basics are all in place, and you're ready to start running more robust seductions that work better on multiple levels.
Good observation on attention-seeking girls using your apporach to status jockey among peers. Girls who like you in general usually will not verbalize much about your approach: they won't compliment you much, won't gush about you to their friends, won't describe your approach, etc. Instead they just get sort of hypnotized and wait for you to lead.
Girls in social circle where you've missed signals and then they went cold then warmed back up and now you're in that weird dance where you're looking for signs and she's looking for signs and you each give them to each other sometimes and other times you don't give them to each other is just... Well, think of it like this: you messed up. Now you need to recover from having messed up. There are ways you can do that, like with preselection. You can also try inviting her to something fun that is not a date. Different options. But one way or another, you need to mend the fences with her and get out of the weird "looking for signs" limbo you end up with in social circle when you miss invitations.
Chase
Practical article on Fundamentals
Hey Chase, thanks for another great article! One part that stuck out to me was the section "What if you don't qualify", specifically the part of about the fundamentals. I know there was an article here on that topic some years back (from a different author I think?), and was wondering if you'd ever consider revisiting the topic from your own perspective, perhaps in a more practical manner like you did with this one. Would be great for some of us guys that might not be "there" yet :-).
Cheers,
Jay
Not Qualifying as the Lover
Jay-
Any recollection which article that was?
Regardless, sure... I can do a "what if you don't qualify" article.
Just put it on the list.
Chase
real quick
Hello,
Just a quick question, is it also an implication if I tell her I like .. lets say.. sensual girls, while in the past I told her that she strucks me as a very sensual girl? I am sure she remembers me telling her that, because she kept looking at me for like 5 seconds after the comment and mentioned it one time in a sentence.
Explicit vs. Implicit
Mr. Shark-
Not implication so much as explication. That's an A = B and B = C, therefore A = C scenario. She's a sensual girl, and you like sensual girls. Therefore, you like her. She isn't really choosing here, you're just telling her your choice.
The right way to do that, if you want to do it, is to have her qualify herself:
Or
Or
Chase
Hi Chase,
Hi Chase,
Just wanted to say that I've been reading your material since 2012 (and it has done wonders to my love/sex life btw) and this is one of the best articles you have written. It really ties it all together in an intuitive way. Wow. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Re: ties it all together
Thanks, Fernando. I'm glad to hear the content's kept you coming back since 2012 (and gotten you results).
Good to hear the stuff I'm putting out is still solid and useful. You start to fear repeating yourself too much or veering back into too much familiar ground after a while...
Chase
What if you don't qualify
Other commenters mentioned that this article was a mixed bag.
I disagree.
I feel that this was actually the first time you broke down the distinction this clearly about your process on moving fast, disqualifying boyfriend value, and upping sexy.
I've followed your writing for a few years and purchased your gc book.
I've never actually seen you write the relationship dynamics on calibrating you're demonstrated value (lover, boyfriend, platonic) and the individuals level of experience (beginner, intermediate, expert) this clearly in one article (in one paragraph ;)
Newer readers with less experience may be confused with the concept of moving fast and disqualifying with what you've just written on continue gathering experience with boyfriend valueand making platonic friends because most of what you wrote in that paragraph has been spread out through many articles in the past.
As a beginner (if they haven't bought your book), they're probably piecing little details here and there and are not making the connections.
You should revisit an article on this paragraph about: "What if you don't qualify". Write about the ultra beginners who do not have any female friends, or are trying to disqualify boyfriend value when they really need to keep it until they learn and earn enough experience with girls (should be after they've improved their fundamentals and practiced a bit of game) before they even touch disqualifying boyfriend value.
Would save many who are totally new to the game from making this mistake.
Re: What if you don't qualify
Okras-
Great point. Thank you. I will revisit it.
Ultra beginners trying to act like the lover who aren't there yet do run that risk of shooting their toes off unnecessarily.
I'll likely get this article up soon. Seems like an important one to post.
Chase
killed it
Just one word 'Wow'. You just hit the girl chase concept right on the point by tying it all together. totally agree with not purging the friend and boyfriend value as beginner, it does helps being comfortable around women.
Counterintuitive
- What are some counterintuitive things inexperienced girls do that many men mistake for experience(slutiness)?
- What are some things more experienced girls do that many mistake for inexperience(prudishness)?
Counterintuitive Signals
Jason-
I'll do a couple of articles on these. One on each category.
For now though, a few things inexperienced girls do that men will mistake for sluttiness are often being over-direct ("I like you. We should hang out sometime") or not having much resistance to sex. These aren't either-ors; there are plenty of inexperienced girls who'll give you heavy LMR and plenty of experienced girls who'll give you none. But there are distinct flavors to the differences. e.g., the experienced girl will seem smooth and natural, while the inexperienced girl will just seem rough / blunt / raw.
Experienced girls will do things like behave aloof, or act like you just won them over, or decline invites home without totally dashing a guy's hope. Guys will assume these girls are hard to get, when often it's just they've learned how to play the game (after having played it with enough men already).
But, more on each category when I do the articles on these.
Chase
Mother material
How to find out whether a girl will be a good (or bad) mother? What are some false signals to look for as well?
Also, how to bring up the topic (or should I?) and when is the best time in a relationship to actually have babies? The reason for bringing it up is to check whether she even wants children. If I wait for her to do it, she might not do it or do it many years later(maybe she thinks I don't want it, so she doesn't even mention anything), which means I'll have wasted a lot of time. I know it's 'chasing' in a way, but I'd rather figure it out sooner and not be stuck in sterile & pointless relationships.
Thank you,
David
Re: Mother material
David-
Love of children and animals tells you whether she'll be a nurturer. If she doesn't love either children or animals, she won't necessarily be a bad mother, but she won't be a super nurturing one.
Her own self-esteem + her emotions toward you tell you what her emotions toward children she has with you will be. The more she likes herself and the more she likes you, the more she will like a child that is the product of you and her.
If she wholesale buys into feminism and careerism, she's going to have issues with motherhood; mainly, there's a risk she blames children for preventing her from occupying the role in society she thinks is expected of her. She can be ambitious and have a career and still be a good mother, but if all she cares about is her career (i.e., not family, not children, not animals... just the corporate grind + the accumulation of capital), she's unlikely to make a smooth transition to motherhood.
Red flags include lots of partying/drinking/drugs (often will be hard for her to completely get away with that, and these things are not so compatible with motherhood; though if they're in her distant past and she isn't a relapse risk, they may be okay), bad relationship with family, or extremely reliant on peer approval (and not otherwise existing in a peer group where most of the women are mothers or there is strong support for motherhood).
If you're going to have children, I recommend as soon as a.) you can financially afford it, b.) you know where you will be comfortable bringing up children, and c.) you're confident you've found a girl you want kids with. If you're not quite there financially yet, I think it's still okay, so long as you're able to challenge the extra pressure into extra hustle. If you're not, then put it off.
If you want to see if she's ready, do this: get her really turned on, put your cock in her without a condom, shag her well, and after she's had a bunch of orgasms tell her, "I'm going to put a baby in you," and shoot your load in her.
Immediately after she finishes the last monster impregnation orgasm and the sex ends, you will find yourself in a dicussion about how open to this she is and what exactly her concerns are about it. Could be panic (because who knows if you're going to stick around if you haven't gotten that far in the relationship yet), could be love ("Do you really want to put a baby in me? You won't leave me, right?"). Whichever way it goes, you'll find out her true thoughts and concerns very quickly.
Generally, in my experience, all women want children. When you meet a woman who claims not to want children, what she's really telling you is, "I haven't met a man I am crazy enough about yet to be desperate about wanting his seed in me." The major inhibitors to her wanting a child with any particular man are a.) if he's sexy enough [genes are good enough], and b.) if she feels safe enough with him [her and the child won't be rattling tin cans on the street for alms].
She's most fertile in the first 90 days of your relationship, when passions are at their height. Next most receptive times are during the emotional spikes that follow you returning from being abroad or out-of-state, and during the normal receptive period during ovulation.
Chase
Questions / Nose or her eyes?
Hey Chase,
Great article.
So to apply it to situations, if we use yes ladders, or hard push or she does something out of other factors (such as you get her number but she did it because you asked in front of her friends), will she also feel it's "her choice"? Will it affect our seduction if not? What's the emergency firefighting solution if encountered?
Re: Nose or her eyes
You say to look at the bridge of her nose so our eyes aren't wandering back and forth, seemingly reaction-seeking.
This will create a solid, intimate stare.
But in a comment or forum post, you say to look at her left (your right) eye to give the intimate feeling.
I've been staring at nose, sooner or later, I'll be the new Mr.Bean crossed eye meme!
So is it her left eye or her nose or her right eye or her ass?
(I think you know which one I prefer..;) )
Lawliet
Which Eye to Look At
Lawliet-
Yes-ladders and hard push are scenarios where a girl will not (at the outset of these techniques) feel it's her choice. The key to using these though is to cool down and connect with her after she's complied, to avoid piling up resistance and allow her to feel good, then backward rationalize her acquiesance as her choice.
Did I say look at her left eye? Should be her right eye. Her right eye (on your left) is the one that creates the most intense response. If you stare into a man's right eye, it feels like a challenge / you are about to attack him. If you do this with a girl, it feels equally predatory, though if she feels attracted to you she will interpret that as sexual predation. I only recommend using this with girls who are very into you, and even then only in limited amounts. Just do it when you really need to ratchet up tension. Otherwise, bridge of the nose between the eyes. Her left eye (on your right) just don't look into. It just feels weird / off.
Or, yeah, stare at her ass. No, really. Checking girls' bodies out is attractive.
Date stamps on articles, unfortunately we need to nix. Dates on articles hurt search engine rankings (no one wants to click on a "how to do X with a girl" that's 3 years old - he assumes, incorrectly, that it must be obsolete), so we're having to peel these off the site. Casualty of how the Internet works right now.
I assume some day dates will be liberated from search rankings. On that day, I will happily restore them. Until then, we're more like Wikipedia than we are a news website, so there is some additional reasoning behind not having them.
Chase
Feedback on posts
I really like your decision to revert back to photos without text as article previews.
It's much more cleaner and appealing.
Thank you.
As a humble suggestion, can you also add a date stamp on each article to keep it organized especially useful for article series?
Thanks Chase,
Lawliet
How do you remember all this?
Hey Chase,
Quick ? - As I go more and more deeper in to learning stuff like emotions, processes, life lessons & seduction-women things: conversation, sexiness, way women think, etc., I want to be able to remember it all as over time as one can forget some stuff.
Right now I started a google docs & a table of contents & sections to break down different areas so I can remember things.
So I created categories like "Women: deep diving", "Women: sameness/emotional connection", "Women: fundamentals", "Processes: Way to think", etc..
I then jot down about 100 word entries for each category based on experiences, thinking about it, & reading GC of course :)
Do you do something similar?
How do you remember all these details, concepts & stuff over the years that you write for GC articles & just for your own learning, etc.?
Cause you also have a lot more stuff down on paper than I ever would
Re: How do you remember all this?
GS-
The secret is learning a little, then immediately applying.
During my education in seduction, I would study a lot, then immediately go out and try whatever I'd learned. I would test it out with enough girls that I could figure out how well it worked for me. If it gelled with my style I'd keep it; if it didn't, I'd discard it, or set it aside until I figured out how to use it.
If you try to approach it all as book learning without the application, it'll be a lot harder to retain, because the brain works best when it can tie lessons to experiences. If it's all theory, it's just a bunch of words and concepts rattling around in your head, desperate for something to stick to.
At this point for me, none of this stuff is conscious awareness until I have to talk about it or write an article. Then I sit down and ask myself, "What's something interesting that I can highlight a lesson from for readers?" or, "What's something I do that I've never fully discussed or explained before?" Then I pick something out, and analyze it then. "Why does this work, when do I use it, what are the contingencies..." etc. But for me, it's not memorizing stuff, so much as it is explaining stuff I just already do (have learned to do).
Chase
Meeting the fam
Chase, I've been talking to this girl for a year and some change.
never met her fam or friends and she hasn't met mine.
I love it like this, but of course are families ask.
I don't not want to do this because I feel it isn't really too important to me.
Do you recommend on the not meeting thing if I like it and it causes no drama?
or do you feel I should meet them? if so when?
Questions about 20s
Chase, just read your post on the boards about what you should do in your 20s, so I got some questions.
I have a bit to ask because you gave out a lot of good info.
1. A. You said to take on lovers and have great relationships.
I want to know when you have a great relationship, isn't it harder to break up because it's great? doesn't that slow you down? you wouldn't be able to keep picking up. wouldn't it be harder to break up? isn't it hard to find a great relationship?
B. You say to hook up with enough girls to feel like you can forget about it. What would you say is a good number for guys to feel like that? I ask as in a general number for a guy you feel will be good enough to be pleased with himself and his skillset with women.
C. what if your goal for women is to high? wouldn't you want to keep sleeping with more women? why would you get bored and why does it make it harder to pick a partner? thought it would be easier because of experience.
2. On what you said for having a montizable skill.
Do any involve math? I am not good in math.
Can someone in their 20s learn this stuff quick enough to start freelancing early?
3. after practicing a martial art, will it also increase your confidence with women by a lot or is it not noticeably different?
4. can you explain more about thinking of the big picture?
5. what are some good places for black men to start living overseas?
6. What would be back up plans for if a person loses a job?
I mean an ordinary person who hasn't saved a lot. what could that person do as soon as he loses his job?
what can he do to plan ahead?
7. Is it possible for someone in their 30s to do this? should they?
Thanks
Re: Chase's post on 20s
Hey SZ, what's up man, I'm in my 20s too, could you link me the posts you read of Chase's of how to make good of one's 20s? Sounds like it'd be a good, helpful read.
Thanks , GermanShepherd
Questions
SZ-
I see no reason to meet families if you don't want to, you're happy with things as they are, and she doesn't care.
Breaking up is tougher with a great relationship, yes. It's sadder. Finding another one though is going to depend on how good you are at locating, selecting, and seducing girls who are great fits for you. A lot of guys do struggle with this, but it's a skill like anything. Discussed in-depth here:
Good number to hook up with depends on the guy. Some guys can hook up with 3 girls, then marry their dream girl and never look back. Other guys can hook up with 200 girls and they still feel insecure because one of their buddies is at 500. For most guys, somewhere between 10 and 40 is probably enough.
Letter C I don't understand the question (or recall the bit you're referencing). Please link to the post you're referencing when you ask questions like these, or quote me, and I'll know what you mean. I remember that post on the boards, but don't remember the title of it and don't have the time now to fish through the boards for it.
Monetizeable skills - some need math. Some don't. Anyone at any age who isn't confined to a wheel chair and a drool cup can learn this stuff. On jobs / backup skills / etc., you have my make-money forum posts, which I've linked you to 10 or 20 times.
Martial arts, depends on the guy and depends how far he gets. I've yet to see a skilled martial artist who isn't at least reasonably confident with girls, though.
Big picture: I'll do an article on it.
Live overseas: check out this article - "How and Where to Move Overseas as a Single Man." Asia's usually good to black guys (though Asians are also extremely racist; even still, both job and girl opportunities abound here, so long as you can shrug off the racism). Scandinavia has traditionally been great for black men, though in light of the migrant crisis I expect those opinions will have radically shifted in the larger population within 3 to 5 years. Probably still good for a short time longer, but you'll probably start to feel increasingly unwelcome as tribalism waxes high.
On "doing this" in your 30s, I've answered that one 10 or 20 times too. See my previous responses.
Check out this article on what being the provider consists of:
Chase
Chase, can you explain on the
Chase, can you explain on the man being the provider in a ltr?
I'm talking about both without kids and with kids.
I'm going by your article where you say the man must be the provider.
How does a man be the provider? does he just pay for everything his woman wants? like shoes, food, etc. ?
so he basically takes care of himself, her , and the child?
so he has to spend his money on 3 people? when the he'll does she spend her money?
could you explain on how to be a provider in those situations you say that we can't escape
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