Your Sexual Market Value: Who's Afraid of Desperate Men?


sexual market value340Breeze poses an intriguing “What if?” scenario over on the article about astrology:

An interesting question is how do you think women would behave in general toward men (in terms of their attitude, expectations, submissiveness, physical attributes (caring about being fat vs slim), etc) if the vast majority of available men were completely unwilling to trade (access to resources, money, etc )for hopes of sex? I know this is unrealistic since clearly women have choice in men because: (1) men are the agressive sex meaning women have lots of suitors just by being a woman; and (2) men seem to want women’s vjs more than women want what men have to offer.

I think this one’s worth addressing because I see a lot of frustration from guys on various corners of the Internet about desperate men trading their time and energy to women in exchange for the hope of a chance to maybe possibly someday if they’re lucky have a shot at entering said women’s vaginas.

The talk is that these desperate men make it harder for everyone else to get laid, and/or that women are becoming overly entitled as a result of it.

And to some extent... there’s a nugget of truth in there, yeah.

But to a larger extent, this is looking at the problem all wrong, with blinders on to the real setup – and the real solution.


sexual market value

Personally, I worry about desperate men’s impact on my ability to sleep with women about as much as Bentley worries about Kia flooding the market with underpriced crudmobiles.

That is, not at all.

That’s because there is not “one market” in which all men are evaluated by the same standards. Rather, there are three markets:

  1. Friend
  2. Lover
  3. Provider

... each of these catering to one piece of the pie of what women want.

Most men compete on being a better #1 or a better #3, because these are easier, and these are more clearly defined by society. Most people do what most other people do, because most people like following well-worn paths, rather than hacking their way through overgrown jungles they’re warned off of venturing into by everyone else.

Me, I compete on the #2 role, and the competition for that role almost everywhere in the world is thin. That’s because it’s harder, it takes more training, and it’s far more nuanced. The lover is the Bentley or the Aston-Martin of the dating world.

The fact is, just like with top-shelf luxury automobiles, there tend to be very few competitors vying with you at the upper echelons, and plenty of buyers. Conversely, down in the dregs where the bottom-feeders duke it out (all those men competing to be women’s “friends” in real life), competition is fierce, and the rewards are faint. It’s like gutting your fellow men for leftovers down there, compared to a gentlemen’s game of chess at the upper echelons, where everyone takes home a prize (or two, or three).

And despite the fact that places like Girls Chase exist, specifically to train men to quit risking metaphorical life and limb in the friend zone arena for scraps off the feast at some girl’s table and instead to progress themselves to more refined and productive pursuits, most men keep on doing it anyway, because they’re lazy, clueless, and desperate, and they lack the ability and the foresight to treat themselves as self-improvement projects, delaying gratification until tomorrow while leveling up their abilities today.


Why Desperate Men Don’t Scare Me

The average girl I meet is inundated all day long with texts, images, and social media updates from legions of suitors vying for her favor. They want her to see what adoring fans of her they are; they want her to know how attractive they find her. They want to communicate what loyal devotees of the cult of HER they have been; they want to demonstrate their dutiful faithfulness and unwavering fidelity.

When she goes out to party and drink with her friends, she’s hit on by one sloppy drunken man after another, each of whom is able to muster little more than clumsy compliments and boring conversation that either brags and showboats about himself, or attempts to interview her on the most uninteresting, standard, and impersonal subjects about her life he can think of, on only the most superficial levels. After all, it’s no good when people you don’t know that well yet get too personal, he reasons. He can always ask her the deep stuff once they’re boyfriend-girlfriend.

When she goes to school or work, and attends extracurricular activities, she meets men who throw themselves after her in the most transparent ways, offering up their time and energy to her to be of service in whatever way they can use to get their feet in the door of her life, looking for any possible way she might value them so they can shoehorn themselves in. They are so clueless and desperate for women that they are prepared to offer up damn near anything merely for the chance to even have a chance.

sexual market value

And the moment she meets me, these men are immediately irrelevant.

All the certainty she feels around those other men evaporates.

All the firm control she’s so used to wielding around them vanishes.

All the poise, strength, and dominance she usually has is replaced by nervousness and clumsiness and girlishness and excitement.

To me, she is just another little girl, and I am intrigued, but not impressed. The things she does that other men worship and pedestalize are to me just silly and cute... trifling women’s things that I have affection for, but certainly am not impressed by.

I’ve seen all these things again and again with thousands and thousands of women. To me, she is just another girl... a commodity. One of millions; a dime a dozen. All the incredible specialness and uniqueness she holds for her devotees is completely unapparent to me.

But she is not slighted. She is not in auto-rejection. Because I am not treating her like nothing. I still treat her warmly, and for this, she is relieved. She knows she has a chance. She knows that if she just tries hard enough, she might be able to get me.

Her attempts are often clumsy compliments and boring conversation that either brags or showboats about herself, or attempts to interview me on the most uninteresting, standard, and impersonal subjects about my life she can think of, on only the most superficial levels. If I know her from social circle, she will sometimes throw herself after me in the most transparent of ways, offering up her time and energy to be of service in whatever way she can to use to get her foot in the door of my life, looking for any possible value she might use to shoehorn her way in.

She is a bit more socially calibrated than the desperate men hitting on her are, but not much; reading her interest levels to me are like reading 72-point font. There’s no mistaking it for even an instant.

With her, I will tell her what I want, and if she will comply with it she will continue to have a shot with me. If she will not, well, then – been nice knowing you; and now I’m off to meet someone new. Though of course, if you change your mind later and want to play ball on my terms, my door is open... for a little while.

The desperate men around her have absolutely no bearing on her relationship with me, nor do I spend even a second of thought worrying about how they’re affecting her. They’re entirely unrelated to anything between her and I. There is us; and there is all of them... utterly unconnected.


What Do You Care What Kia is Doing?

If you’re worried about men flooding the market with underpriced goods, you’re worried about the wrong thing; that is, you’re worried about what the cheap-o competitors are doing to your bottom line.

But the cheap-o competitors aren’t even in the same market.

Sure, Kia sells cars; so does Bentley. But does anyone think for an instant that the people who want a Kia want a Bentley, or that the people who want a Bentley want a Kia?

Also, if someone had the choice between a hundred Kias (that he couldn’t resell or otherwise monetize or use for anything but his own personal driving) and a single Bentley, which do you think he’d most likely choose? He probably wouldn’t even have the garage space for all those useless Kias, and his friends wouldn’t be nearly impressed by him having a hundred Kias parked all over the neighborhood than they would by him having a single Bentley.

If you’re a new car manufacturer and you’re just opening up your doors, the pressure to compete with Kia is going to be immense. It’s what everyone else seems to be doing; if you don’t compete on price, how can you possible win the car sales game?

If you want my opinion, you should NEVER compete on price. You should NEVER be the cheap-o option, in business or women or anything else. You end up doing MORE work over the long haul, for dramatically LESS result.

You shouldn’t be worried about what cheap car makers – or those desperate men living in the friend zone – do. What you should be worried about, instead, is how to turn yourself into Bentley; how do you become the man that makes women immediately forget all the desperate men pursuing them and gaze at him with their big doe eyes?


sexual market value

Now, that’s not to say that market competition doesn’t exist. There aren’t a lot of direct competitors to Bentley (only Aston-Martin comes to mind as more or less a peer), but there are companies like BMW and Mercedes-Benz and Jaguar and Lexus and Audi, and these seem “elite enough” that many buyers have trouble telling the difference... or telling why they should pay more for a Bentley.

Then, there are the different “types” out there – you can buy a Bentley for a smooth ride, or a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for an exciting one.

This is much like what you’ll encounter in the dating market; while desperate men are pretty irrelevant, men who are “good enough” do impact your relative sexual market value, and men who are direct competitors or other “types” at your level impact it even more.

For our purposes, we’ll define your main competitors then as:

  • Attractive boyfriend options
  • Direct lover competitors
  • Other flavors of lover

... and here’s where your sexual market value calculations really get interesting.


How Genuine Competition Affects You

sexual market valueWhen I moved from Washington, D.C. to San Diego, California, one of the first things I noticed was that the women, on average, looked a good bit hotter. One of the next things I noticed was that the men were cooler, buffer, and a lot more aggressive in approaching women than the men back in D.C.

Truth be told, I felt a little out of my element at first. Pickup was noticeably harder in Southern California. At first I thought it was just my lack of a venue – I had a favorite club back in D.C. where I had a very reliable pick up rate – but I soon realized that women in San Diego were just harder to get than women in Washington were.

They were less diverse, were more accustomed to more attractive men, were more accustomed to being approached, were more accustomed to aggressive behavior from men, and were more inured to game. There were also a lot fewer of them, relatively speaking; while female:male ratio in D.C. is a favorable one for single men, San Diego grossly favors single women, with far more single men than single women.

I’d picked a new hometown where I was playing against much stiffer competition than I had been before.

Even after I’d adapted – I slimmed down, put on more muscle, upgraded my fashion, got a sexy haircut, grew out some sexy facial hair, put together a sexual vibe – when I outclassed almost any guy one-on-one, it was still tougher odds there because women just aren’t as desperate for a sexy man in San Diego as women in D.C. are.

Sure, they still value him highly; he’s still more in-demand than a friend or a boyfriend is.

There’s just more worthwhile competition, is all.

Of course, without SoCal to force me to level up my game, I’d never have reached where I eventually got to, most likely. Though I’m probably fortunate I cut my teeth in a somewhat less competitive environment and racked up success before moving to the Southern California meat grinder.

The New York Times has a great anecdotal write up on how gender ratios skew the dating game in its 2010 article “The New Math on Campus”, which discusses women complaining about having to hook up quickly with men on college campuses where the ratio is slanted to 60% women, 40% men:

“A lot of my friends will meet someone and go home for the night and just hope for the best the next morning,” Ms. Lynch said. “They’ll text them and say: ‘I had a great time. Want to hang out next week?’ And they don’t respond.”

Even worse, “Girls feel pressured to do more than they’re comfortable with, to lock it down,” Ms. Lynch said.

As for a man’s cheating, “that’s a thing that girls let slide, because you have to,” said Emily Kennard, a junior at North Carolina. “If you don’t let it slide, you don’t have a boyfriend.”

Conversely, I’ve read plenty of reports of schools where the ratio is reversed – 60% men, 40% women – and in these places, men find hooking up almost impossible, and settle into relationships as soon as they can get them, satisfying themselves with the friend zone in the meantime as they hope for a chance to have a chance with some girl.


Attractive Boyfriend Options

By “attractive boyfriend options”, what I mean here are not only the men who are great potential boyfriends and comfortably accept that role, but also the men who think they’re playboys, and who act like they’re playboys, but whom women really just view as someone they’d maybe consider as a boyfriend. These are often the somewhat-charming guys who go around talking loudly and cracking jokes and slapping people on the back and trying a little too hard to be bad boys.

These guys affect your market value, as a sexually attractive male, because they give girls options. While most women will recognize that you are the more desirable option, they feel safer knowing that there are attractive boyfriend options around (these guys don’t dote on women like a friend zone orbiter does, but many of them typically don’t cut contact ever – once they have a girl’s phone number, she’s getting text messaged at least intermittently until the end of time), and, thus, your scarcity takes a major hit; girls aren’t as afraid of losing you, they’re less willing to invest in you, and they’re less likely to chase and will tend to chase with less fervor when they do chase than women in environments more favorably skewed.

This is when the market becomes not just a choice between Kia and Bentley anymore; this is when it’s now a choice between Kia, Audi, Mercedes, and Bentley. Maybe she knows that Bentley is more valuable than Audi or Mercedes, but if she’s got a realistic shot at an Audi or a Mercedes, she’s not going to feel too rushed to make up her mind about whether to splurge and buy that Bentley or take her time and see if she can haggle the price down.


Direct Lover / Other Flavor of Lover Competitors

The good news is that there are few genuine lovers out there, so the competition here is not too fierce. The biggest thing impacting your ability to attract lots of women and sleep with women fast and in large quantities is the number of attractive boyfriend options that undermine urgency and put the ball back into women’s courts.

That said, direct competitors and different flavors of lover can be a pain if you happen to find yourself in a dating market that has a fair number of these. That’s rare; it can happen though in situations like going to a party in the U.S. where most of the men there are sexy French and Italian men and you’re just some plain old American guy (this has happened to me), or attending an afterparty where the major even there is the group of guys from the rock band, and you’re just another party guest. You can still pull things off sometimes in these environments, but the deck is stacked firmly against you, no matter how solid your fundamentals and game otherwise are.

Fortunately, outlier individuals tend to be rare enough that they usually won’t affect your sexual market value on a citywide scale; usually their effects are relegated to a small local level (party, restaurant, event, etc.).


sexual market value

I’d heard about how big the environment was in affecting your outcome from a sexual market value point of view (though not in those terms) for years, but I spent little time thinking about that until I’d traveled much more extensively.

In fact, I’d heard that supply and demand forces were at play before I ever relocated to SoCal; I’d heard the girls had “pickier tastes” and that more aggressive men made for more reserved females. Both turned out to be true, based on where I was hailing from, but missed the biggest picture (and simpler) view: there was just a greater supply of sexually attractive and aggressive men in Southern California than there was in anywhere else I’d been, with comparatively lower demand (fewer available women).

When you start traveling abroad, you really notice the effect, because of the foreigner novelty boost you get. Just like French men are sexy to American women, and Greek men are sexy to British women, so too are British men sexy to French women, and American men sexy to Greek women. On average, of course – an unattractive Italian guy still doesn’t score many points, just as an unattractive Brit guy doesn’t. You’ve got to mold yourself into something women want first, not just change countries and hope for the best.

Although, what you tend to find is that the men who travel are frequently among some of the more ambitious individuals from their countries, and ambition takes care of a lot of things: ambition leads to you fixing up your looks, getting down tight wit and conversational abilities, having an interesting life with a range of adventurous experiences, and things of that ilk. Research also shows that individuals to emigrate to new countries tend to be the most genetically fit of their populations overall, too.

You can see where this article’s going, I think, both from that New York Times article about the skewed college campus ratios and this discussion about the novelty boost you see as a foreigner: your sexual market value is affect dramatically by the conditions of the market you place yourself (or find yourself, if your life is less self-directed) in.


Selling Refrigerators to Eskimos (or Amazons?)

 “He’s so good he could sell a fridge to an Eskimo,” goes the old saying about a salesman who’s especially talented.

sexual market value

And thus we arrive at the age old question regarding doing better in any market:

  • Do you want to learn how to sell refrigerators to Eskimos? or
  • Do you want to move down to the tropics and sell fridges to the Amazons?

My assumption on Girls Chase is that the majority of the readers can’t or don’t want to move from where they are. I dislike giving anyone the advice of “you should change cities/countries”, because in my opinion that doesn’t much solve the problem... unless you’re living somewhere so sparsely populated that there aren’t enough women to practice learning game on. If that’s the case, yeah – move.

Generally though, you can think of this website as teaching you how to sell fridges to Eskimos. I’m assuming you live in a reasonably competitive place where you’re a local and have no exotic-ness boost to work with. And indeed, these are the best environments to get as good as you possibly can with women in – they will require you become the most attractive you can be, and develop the tightest game you can develop.

At some point though, it’s always worthwhile to ask: “Would I be happier to go sell fridges in the tropics?”

You may not even need to go very far to do that. Oftentimes, there are completely different areas within a given city; in San Diego, for instance, there is tons of male competition for women in Pacific Beach, but far less of it in La Jolla (the upscale part of town) or North Park (the trendy hipster part of town). You can still pull and sleep with girls in PB... but it’s just easier doing so in other parts of town.

If you can go farther – i.e., change cities, or move overseas – awesome new vistas await (assuming you choose well). In fact, you can pick for all kinds of reasons and features – if you’re in the States and you like bleached blonde fitness bunnies, Southern California is the place for you; if you prefer liberal intellectuals, it’s the Pacific Northwest; if you like ladder-climbing intellectuals and lots of foreign women, D.C.; if you like a diverse population with an enviable girl:guy ratio, NYC; and if you like down-to-Earth, friendly girls, somewhere in the Midwest is ideal. The kinds of women you can meet in Europe, Asia, and everywhere else is equally diverse, dependent on locale.


Worries About Sexual Market Value

... for this reason are usually way overblown (and not a little myopic).

True, if you live in a place with a bad market for men (that is, one where your services are not very much in demand), it will seem like the sexual marketplace is all out of whack. Or, if you’ve yet to upgrade yourself and are more inclined to victim mentality than you are self-development, it’ll seem this way too... since you’ll be too busy competing with all the other cheap-o options doing whatever you can to get a foot in the door with some girl... any girl.

But spend a little time upgrading your fundamentals, or change to a location more favorable toward you, and your views will change.

The difference you see after an upgrade or a change to another city often isn’t immediately apparent – because women rarely chase after men, you’re mostly gauging the results you get with them in reaction to you, and the lines here are constantly being blurred by mixing successes with rejections. The mind isn’t very good at processing 10% or 20% or even 30% success rate boosts when it’s juggling a number of successes and an even larger number of failures. Which is probably why changing self and changing location don’t seem as obvious as they should be to so many men who are trying to figure out why their sexual market value seems to be so much lower than it should be...

... while other men don’t lose an ounce of sleep over this because they’re at a level and/or live in an environment where getting women is like picking cherries, and it’s the women who do all the complaining about how hard it is to find a good man there.

So: if you find yourself stressing out over how desperate men are threatening your own sexual success with their ineffective but validating efforts, just keep in mind that Bentley doesn’t sweat what Kia is doing, no matter how desperately Kia slashes prices on its latest aluminum box on wheels.

Instead, Bentley just focuses on making the best product it can make, and making sure that it’s selling it to the customers who are the most interested in what it has on offer.

Just as you want to be doing, too.

Chase Amante


Next on the reading list: Sexual Economics: The Lover and the Provider.

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Comments

MartinKerr's picture

Safety


Hey Chase.

Interesting article. I recently moved overseas a few weeks ago- I've picked a bad country pick-up wise but it's somewhere I always wanted to live so I can tolerate it for a few months :)

Anyway, I was mugged just before I moved here and it's really affected me. I'm almost 19 and admitedly, I'm pretty scared at night when I'm walking home from the bars. Obviously, I need to go out at night to work on my game so this presents a real problem. I've read and applied the best I could your advice on the article about street smarts- absolutely full of gems by the way and my walk has come a long way.

Anyway, my question is in relation to the angry face. What size of a group should you change that to a neutral face- 2 guys, 3 guys, 5 guys, 7 guys. Or is it less about the size of the group and more if they are walking somewhere or sitting around.

I really appreciate any help and everything you do for us here on girlschase.

Cheers

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Safety

Author

Martin-

Sorry to hear about the mugging. I can imagine that's got to shake your confidence. I had a couple of guys feel me out for a mugging when I was about your age, but I was able to dissuade them from trying, fortunately... I can imagine that's got to color your perception of safety in the streets.

A good rule of thumb if you need one on throwing a scary look on or off your face might be if it's 4+ guys in a group, take the look off your face. It depends on their disposition and how close they are, too - a group of 6 guys who are sitting down laughing and joking around aren't going to mess with you if you walk by with an angry look on your face because they aren't cohesive and focused enough to. A group of 4 predatory-looking men who are standing and waiting for you to walk by may well feel bold enough to challenge you, and even feel required to, if you walk by looking scary, though. 3 guys usually will leave you alone, in my experience.

Chase

Xeno's picture

Hey Chase, I've been rolling


Hey Chase,

I've been rolling with a guy who has great natural game. When we run into random women, they tend to be attracted to him and sometimes he gets hook up. While he is intelligent, he's unwilling to approach women or risk himself because woman seem to be naturally attracted to him and he gets enough results.

In terms of my development, should I continue to go out with him? I'm a pretty good deep diver and more usually more willing to take risk than he is but I become frustrated because he almost instantly has a girls attention when I must find some way to get them interested without chasing.

Chase Amante's picture

Learning from Friends

Author

Xeno-

From the sound of it, going out with him is probably going to be pretty educational for you - if I were you, I'd keep going out with him.

When I had my first wingman, I did most of the opening only to find him inevitably take over whatever groups of girls I introduced him to, and I'd be left on the outside. Figuring out how to change that dynamic was a great point in my development - it taught me how to outshine a guy who was previously outshining me.

If you spend enough time around him, you'll almost certainly find you'll pick up on mannerisms of his that women are finding very attractive as well, and begin to adopt and use them yourself. As you dovetail your style with his in all the areas that it counts (i.e., the areas of how he presents himself that women so respond to), you'll notice less and less of a disparity between the two of you - and eventually, since you're taking action and actively developing yourself and your game, while he's resting on his laurels and letting what he's already got do all the work for him - you will surpass him.

Of course, still keep your eyes out for a better wingman - as you improve, at some point, you'll run across a guy with better attraction and close game with this friend, and who also doesn't mind opening a single bit. When you do, you'll fairly naturally transition to spending more time with that wing, and less time with your other.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Value increasing.


Hey Chase, i want to ask you if i am doing things properly on increasing my own value.

As of late i have been increasing my value in the most subtile way i know, without showing off, bragging etc.

I have been a very active listener, i made girls talk 90% and me just 10%, since i started reading this site.
It gets me better results, no doubt. I deep dive when neccessary, i listen to them, i aprove, i agree, i am supportive.

I don`t pay for dates, and when i try to increase my value i do it with the following things:

-When a girl hesitates about giving me her number i tell her that "i will not call her 20 times a day if she gives me her number"
( that way i put her into position to be calm, to give me the number and to test me to see if i really will or will not call her 20 times a day - test that i pass )

-I am calling girls exclusively to set up the date or to handle logistics - i build my own busy schedule, to look and be busy - until i find some proper obligations.
( i almost always state that i am busy and that i might be available for a date. )

-When i talk to girls i sometimes say that i am not one of those "one night stand type of guys", and that i now look for something considerably deeper in a girl.
I also like to say that "i don`t want to date party girls, girls that drink and that hit the bar and clubs"..
I say that i avoid going to clubs and bars to chase women..

-Occasionaly i say that i cook - followed by a witty remark that "if i am alive tomorrow, the food that i cooked wasn`t poisonous...

-I almost always state something that has happened as Luck or some weird circumstance or a coincidence ( and i don`t believe in coincidenes ) ( it is not luck or weird circumstance, i just follow your steps on being as humble as possible )

-When i don`t pay for a date, i sometimes say that i hate doing that, because the girl might think that i am buying her or that i think she is easy if i buy her a drink...

-I also say that i love to meet intelligent and smart women that know how to communicate and that it is a rare thing in my place ( i point out to her that she is smart and intelligent ) and on top of that i often get compliments of my way of thinking to be advanced for my age.

There are also a lot of other things i do, i can`t think of all of them at this point..

I often move very directly in certain situations - like stating something so obvious that the girls would not say directly...I might sometimes even tell a pick up technique i have adopted in more of a funny way of saying it.
I say things directly, that maybe i should let them figure out...

Is all of this a good progress or a bad one ?
Am i doing thins properly if i state what is above or not ?

Regards.

Chase Amante's picture

Apologies for Not Being a Nice Guy

Author

Anon-

Several of these make you more attainable, while the others make you appear lower value than or less connected to the girl; here's how:

  • When a girl hesitates about giving me her number i tell her that "i will not call her 20 times a day if she gives me her number" - this places her firmly on top of the power dynamic; you're reassuring her / giving her a concession in exchange for her number. If anything, she should be the one reassuring you she won't chase for you to take her number or give her yours

  • i almost always state that i am busy and that i might be available for a date - if you come across sufficiently high value, this one damages your attainability and looks status-seeking; even if you're the busiest man on Earth, there's no need to directly state that you are busy - just say you'll figure out when your schedules line up and do something then

  • i am not one of those "one night stand type of guys", and that i now look for something considerably deeper in a girl. I also like to say that "i don`t want to date party girls, girls that drink and that hit the bar and clubs".. I say that i avoid going to clubs and bars to chase women.. - this is explicitly qualifying yourself as a boyfriend; I recommend doing its opposite of this on Girls Chase, but a few good articles to start with on this are here and here

  • Occasionaly i say that i cook - followed by a witty remark that "if i am alive tomorrow, the food that i cooked wasn`t poisonous... - that's just fine, yeah; a little self-deprecation is good. Poking fun at your own cooking is an easy one to do it with

  • I almost always state something that has happened as Luck or some weird circumstance or a coincidence - yes, writing stuff off that may potentially be attainability-lowering with something like, "Bah, I was just lucky. Nothing amazing about it," is generally going to preserve your attainability and allow women to more easily see your value

  • When i don`t pay for a date, i sometimes say that i hate doing that, because the girl might think that i am buying her or that i think she is easy if i buy her a drink - this is making an excuse / trying to defuse tension, which communicates to the girl that you're not comfortable not paying, and feel as though you should be paying... which tells her you probably view her as higher value than you. And women don't usually sleep with men they're higher in value than. Better just to be cool and natural and not start explaining yourself, and let her assume this is simply what you're used to

  • I also say that i love to meet intelligent and smart women that know how to communicate and that it is a rare thing in my place ( i point out to her that she is smart and intelligent ) - this is only necessary if she's very nervous and/or she's auto-rejecting because there are too many young or hot girls around and you want to communicate that there's something about her that you find more attractive than the youth/hotness of the other women you could be talking to but aren't to talk to her instead. Otherwise, it sounds like a too-general qualification, and makes her more aware of how little you really know her (otherwise, you'd qualify her on something far more specific). See these articles to fix this:

It sounds like your biggest sin right now is trying too hard to defuse tension that you'd be better off acting like isn't there. You'll naturally grow more comfortable with social tension and pressure as you meet more and more women - sometimes it takes a little while - and becoming increasingly at ease siting there calmly while a girl struggles through a situation she's not used to being in.

The big thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to explain why you're not being a pushover nice guy. You should just be an attractive male, and let her figure out that that's what you are, rather than being a guy who apologizes for not being a nice guy.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Call times


Chase i really need a bloody help on this topic..

I`ve tried numerous routines and call times and everything and i still haven`t found a normal routine for girls to answer my phones..

I usually call them like you stated, on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday between 19h and 21h and on Saturdays and Sundays between 11h and 14h.

I get the most answers on those time but, the thing i want to ask is this.

How many times should i call her ?
I mean i ring once, she does not answer... I ring again in 15mins, again she does not answer...

I tried the following routines of which none have gotten me the most success:

I call once - she does not answer... After 15 mins i call again, she does not answer...
I call once - she does not answer... After 30mins i call again, she does not answer...
I call once - she does not asnwer... After 60mins i call again, she does not asnwer...

I mean, what kind of technique do you have in calling ?

Should i try calling her once in every 5 hours or 2-3 times in space of 5mins until she picks up or should i just call once and never again in the same day ??

I need help on this one, it bugs me quite a while...

Franco's picture

Texting


Anon,

You need to calm down with the phone calls. As a matter of fact, I never call a girl unless there's a really good reason to (like her text messaging isn't working or it's an emergency).

I would focus on using text messages first, and you should only be contacting a girl at most once every 24-48 hours if she isn't answering. Doing more than that just seems out of control and needy.

- Franco

Anonymous's picture

Hey


Thanks for a reply.

But i am not calling girls every single day... I do it with a day or two in between the calls..

I cannot use texting, as i won`t get my texts answered.

Where we live the economical and financial situation is best suited for phone calls.
As we have free minutes up to 1000 with our operators and the texts aren`t free, most people here ( i would say 90% ) stick to just calling.

Regards.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Call times

Author

Anon-

If you can't text (as you mentioned in your reply to Franco), and calling is the only way, I'd advise leaving voicemails after a call goes unanswered and waiting for the girl to call you back. If she doesn't, wait a week and call again. If she doesn't again, wait two weeks and call again. If she still doesn't return your call, wait a month and call again. After that, delete her number and forget her.

If it's the case that you live in a country that doesn't use voicemail, then call twice in a row (very important - if you wait 15 minutes, then call again, then 30 minutes, then call again, etc., the way it looks to her is as though you've just been sitting by your phone counting down the minutes to call, which is exactly what it sounds like you're actually doing, too; just comes across unsettling usually; if you call again immediately after your first call didn't go through though, it looks normal). If she doesn't answer two immediately subsequent calls, then shoot her a single upbeat text saying hey, it's me, [name], something fun or interesting, and then commanding her to give you a call when she sees the text. If she doesn't call back, you have your answer.

Chase

Sam2's picture

Lover = Bentley For Women?


To make the devil's advocate, a woman could reply as follows:

"Thank you, lovers, for your minimalistic approach to a woman's needs. but what you actually offer I can find in abundance everywhere else. I can get as many penises I want; the hard part for us, women, is how to get the extras that come before and after sex. The hard part is finding a guy who would actually stick around after getting what he wanted from us. Do you, lovers, know how many times we used sex just for the emotional bonding and connectedness we hoped it would lead to, but in vain? Yes, I do enjoy a good orgasm, but I also want to be loved and cared for and although I am not that much into the Valentine's Day crap, I admit I envy my friends who spent that day with their special other half. So, no, lovers, you are not at all Bentleys; you are, in fact Kias, thinking they are Bentleys."

Chase, what could we say to that to defend our "Bentley product"? Would such a potential reaction on the part of a woman fall into the "attractive boyfriend threat" you mentioned in this article?

Michal's picture

Hi, I know I am not Chase


Hi, I know I am not Chase obviously, but opinion might help too,

I would respond with: "This is an inheritance of woman gender, you are an object of desire so we, men, biologically speaking, want sex from you. We as men have our problems too. We invest in you, we want to have sex with you and many of us trully want to be with you. Yet, you wave us out because we are not desirable to you. I am not saying, it is your fault, many of us really come from a bad place with this. Your penis problem... To me, it is all about communication. Yet there goes the rule, damned if you, damned if you dont. If a guy tells you, he just wants to sleep with you, he might ruin his chances of ever doing so especially if you dont find him attractive enough. If you tell him, you find him as a perfect boyfriend candidate, you might seem desperate and ruin your chances too. Yet I heard many of my friends tell me, how this girl did not seem ready, or that she just wanted sexual relationship now to rebound from long term one that she lost. Nothing serious. It all comes down to expectations. If you knew he wants one night stand, than it would be up to you, if you want to have sex for a night or not. But if you slept with him, you would not feel bad the other day. "

... And then I would continue based on who am I talking to. If this would be a girl I want to sleep with, have as a girlfriend, am already in friend zone, I would use it and try to frame it based on what I want. I am not sure if I am able to do it, but I would start with words like "Imagine you and me in this situation right now... " then, I might add something like "... You seem like a really cool gal to me and I find you attractive ..." but I am not really sure about that because to me it seems like you show your interest a lot.

It took me a while to structure that well, but we are on internet, I have time here. In a real conversation I would just think - man have problems too, communication and expectation and hope that I would explain it well.

Also, maybe a warning if you want to continue with "imagine us" type of wording...

I once said that in a conversation with a girl that I thought friendzoned me, I was like 60% sure but I was clueless at that time and wanted to know exactly where I stand with her. "Imagine us together", she asked, "like you and me?" and then she laughed like only women can. That kind where your confidence, ego and self-worth get destroyed (well only if you hope for a shot with her of course). Where you just stand there, you understand evereything now. I am not sure, how it started, what sentence exactly, we were talking about this lover, friend - emotional support type, potentional BF, and long term parthner. I forgot to mention FWB type and he mentioned it. And with this self-amazement voice she told me "I have this kind of friend." And it quite damaged me inside, because I realized how much my personal life sucks.

Ross Leon's picture

A Lover isn't that Common


A woman could sit around with a dildo if sex was really just about sticking something in her holes. Just like guys could use a sex toy if all they needed was something to stick his penis inside of.

Being a lover isn't just about getting/giving sex. You do connect during sex; lovers connect especially well, because they are focused on making it an experience, rather than getting something. The love-making begins when you first meet a woman. You glance at her with a knowing grin, and the emotional rollercoaster begins. Attraction rises, she feels a bit nervous, and eventually you're in bed fulfilling your primal desires. After a few rounds of mind-blowing orgasms, you lay there and recover.

That is the essence of a lover. She will protest like you have above. It's exciting for her to be around me because she has very little control; those are the most exciting moments in life, but she still wants to try and gain control. Being a boyfriend option does not give me this ability, because it means that she is sure that I'll stick around and provide for her. Not very conducive to having an exciting time, but definitely useful in the cuddle/make-out role that most attractive men fall into with women, because she feels extremely secure. However, the time that I can spend as an exciting lover is limit.

I can only fall into the role for a while because, eventually, she becomes secure. Then it's all cool and relaxed because she feels secure about things. Then, she begins to want to feel completely secure, but still wants the excitement that was provided before. Unfortunately, that's something that after a certain point becomes very difficult to provide, and issues arise. Chase elaborates on this brilliantly in the 4 stages of a FWB relationship.

Chase Amante's picture

Bentleys

Author

Sam-

In addition to what Michal and Ross have said, I'd add: saying that all a lover provides is a penis, and that can be gotten anywhere, is like saying that all a Bentley provides is a steering column and a set of four wheels, and that can be gotten anywhere. Viewed that way, Kia = Bentley. But what differentiates a Bentley from a Kia, and a lover from an ordinary man, is not the basic parts that all cars and all men have; it is, rather, the experience each of these provides, and that is what makes them the truly exceptional options for so many that they are.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase, the biggest problem


Hi Chase, the biggest problem of the self help industry is that they tell you to just be something or think something. It may work sometimes but not at others. They tell you to think confidently or tell yourself that you are confident, but it only works when there is true emotion behind it. Whether or not you can draw out those emotions is a gray area.
For example, if you tell me to focus on positive results only, on some days I might think, "Damn that hot girl was checking me out!," but the next time think "Yeah I guess that hot girl was checking me out." (or even think the same words but feel less excited about it). This tells us that the words don't mean that much. I can also think or imagine without telling myself anything, and that is even harder to grasp what I'm thinking and feeling. So, do you have any tips for actually thinking or believing what you're thinking versus useless mantras?

btw, when I'm feeling super confident I almost feel like a narcissist. would you say that people with super high self esteem (or not sure if there is a better term) are all in love with themselves or is that completely healthy? it might be attractive to some women but it definitely rubs a lot of people of the wrong way.

Chase Amante's picture

Feeling Things & Narcissism

Author

Anon-

One of the big reasons I dislike most self-help advice is its focus on changing internals above all else. It's not everywhere, but it's pretty ubiquitous. My personal opinion has long been that someone telling you to focus on changing the inside first, and the rest will follow, is either someone who doesn't know what he's talking about, or someone who's actively trying to sell snake oil. There is benefit to working on your internals, but only when coupled with a larger focus on taking right action. Doing the right things will retrain your mind almost by default; conversely, you could spend years meditating on confidence, but find yourself every bit as unconfident as you were before (or perhaps more so) when you finally set foot outside to try and go walk up to girls and say "hi" (or whatever it is you're trying to become confident about).

More on this:

That said, there's still plenty of value in focusing on getting your thoughts in order, just as a smaller part of a grander plan that focuses the majority of its time on going out and doing the thing you want to be better at and targeting learning the skill set and doing things right.

For actually reshaping your thought patterns, I'd recommend the strategies in these two articles:

As for narcissism, there's debate in the psychological community about what exactly narcissism is, and what causes it. Some psychologists describe it as resulting from a sense of self injured at a young age, while others describe it as something people grow into as they become used to being in positions of power and authority. Regardless, it's a very attractive trait to women (arrogance is the single most attractive quality about a man in most studies that examine it), though you're best learning how to be humble and be warm if you want to temper this (especially around men, who don't find arrogance nearly as attractive as women do... especially if they're arrogant men themselves).

Chase

Wes's picture

I love how there's always an


I love how there's always an article up on something I'm starting to notice in my daily interactions infield.
Me and a female friend were just having a discussion yesterday about something similar to this. I just found out that she identifies herself as feminist and she had some pretty strong views against "pickup artists", rapists, and dating in general.
She was annoyed at the fact that just because she is female, she gets honked at when she walks down the road, she gets followed and stalked, harassed, and scared for her life...all because she's a woman.
I brought up the point that that's the only way for men to meet women aside from social circle and work and school. I told her that I didn't agree with the agenda that "extreme" feminists were pushing because it was an agenda that would make men have to "walk on eggshells" with anything having to do with meeting women. I sympathize with the daily struggles women have to go through and I disagree with rape and harassment but I just don't think the way to solve it is what feminists are trying to push.
I told her that the real problem is that guys simply don't know how to talk, interact with, and treat women the way that women want (and fantasize) about being treated.
Most guys throw something at a wall and hope that something sticks.
Whenever I talk to guys who are naturals with girls and ask them how they're doing it, they really have no clue. They're just like: "oh, you know...you just say so & so and do so &so...they all just come to you...it's as easy as that"
I believe that they've become a natural after years of just trying out things until they eventually saw what works everytime. (throwing things at a wall until it sticks)
My friend still disagreed with me, and told me that NO girl wants to be bothered by some random stranger.
I was like: even if he's attractive? Even if it's some hot guy that you want to come and talk to you?
She still said no because apparently girls believe that all the right people just drop into their lives from the sky and those people didn't have to put in a single bit of effort into meeting them.
To the average women, everything is "destiny" and "predetermined by the universe" and blah blah. (even if they're atheist..I've literally had girls tell me that if it's "meant to be" we'll run into each other again. Wtf?)
I stopped trying to argue with her and I changed the subject.
Maybe that's not related to the article at all, but while reading it, I thought of that little discussion from yesterday.

On subject though, this article helped me realize that my town (more women to men) is chuck FULL of attractive provider guys. That's who I'm in competition with. There's soooo many natural guys here but they all jump into relationships or text or "talk to" these girls for long periods of time.
It explains why many of these girls don't text back and flake on me. It's because they already have a bunch of natural guys texting them and are willing to PROVIDE for them.
I've also noticed that when I go to a drastically new place in town, I get treated like a sexy foreigner because it's so unusual and refreshing the way I approach and talk to girls.
Its one of my dreams to travel around the world and meet beautiful women wherever I go but I have to ask you, Chase, based off of your knowledge, what would be the top places I (a black guy) would be seen as a sexy rare gem.
Some of the top places I want to go to is:
Brazil
Australia
The UK
Japan, China, and South Korea
Israel (put this on the list because I'm seeing too many beautiful Israeli women in this town..might as well just go to the nest lol)

Most other places, I feel like I would get the racist treatment or girls who are just not interested. Are there any places that get mistaken for being a racist country but actually aren't?

I told a friend once that I would never go to Germany because I'd be afraid for my life (just an assumption I had because Hitler was from Germany lol) he told me that he went to Germany and there were plenty of black people there and I was surprised.

Anyways, Great article.

Wes

Chase Amante's picture

Best Places Overseas for Black Men

Author

Wes-

Right, exactly - many women will tell you that no girl ever wants to be approached by a random stranger, but if he's a sexy stranger she's excited to meet, that doesn't count - because that was "meant to happen." That's just how girls think about things (more rational women will tell you they admire men who have the balls to approach, even if they aren't interested in a given man who approaches them). Just one more reason why to never get dating advice from women (or to waste much time debating about it with them).

As for where to travel overseas as a black man - Asia (China, Japan, Korea) tends to be very racist even against white men, and it especially doesn't like dark-skinned men... BUT, there are still plenty of women in Asian countries who find the idea of black men to be very exciting - it's very naughty / rebellious / going against the grain for an Asian girl to date or sleep with a black man. Black guys I've known who've visited to China, Japan, and Korea have had little trouble having sex with women very quickly. Sweden is another one I hear is very good for black men - there was a black guy craze a few years back that I used to hear Swedish men complaining about, how it was much better to be a black guy than a white guy there because all the white girls wanted to date dark-skinned men. I'm not sure if it's still that way. I had a black ex-military friend tell me there's a similar "very naughty" mystique about black men to what there is in Asia out in the Middle East, and a lot of girls that really want to sample a black man, but that it's also a lot more dangerous out there and there are a lot of Middle Eastern men who get very upset about the idea of a black man sleeping with their women. Brazil I hear good things about too, though the rest of Latin America (aside from the Caribbean) may not be as good a bet; the South American (not Brazilian) women I've had in my life have been some of the most racist against black men I've met anywhere on the planet. Brazil, Asia, and Northern Europe seem to all be good bets, though.

Chase

Drexel's picture

I love desperate men, they


I love desperate men, they make my job that much easier. It takes next to nothing to stand out from "The Thirsty Hordes" and all women in the vicinity take notice of when such a man is around.

Will Legend's picture

Great article as always. Love


Great article as always.

Love the analogies here.

Balla's picture

What's a good car for a G?


This article is funny to me. What made me smile was when you were talking about how the roles switch and how the girls sweat you. Shit had me dying, all I kept thinking was "this cocky bastard haha" I think the same way too which makes it even funnier, I feel like im the shit while these girls are getting chased by these suckas.

The other part that had me laughing was when you were shitting on kia. I just seen a recent video on a sport kia car and everyone talked shit about it, even the people who posted the video. It was titled would you drive this even though it's a kia and everybody and their mom clowned that car.

My question is, I have a grand and I want a car. Problem is they all look like shit to me and idk what to get. Im getting the car for what I like, but having a car chicks would like is better. What car brand, year, and color, for $1000 would you suggest for a smooth black male to get the ladies?

Also, What can you tell me about tampa fl? All I know is there's a lot of less love for black guys out here. I can't move right now but im curious to know if you know where I should go to in Tampa or in fl in general to help me get more success in general?

Thanks

Balla's picture

Focus more on process


I read the empathy article and the process article, I think that going through with something regardless of the girls reactions or whatever would of netted me 4 easssssy lays I fucked up on. I really had girls tell me they were tired, on their period, they don't want to have sex with me, then we hang out I don't do anything because of said reasons then they fucking ask, why didn't you push harder? Wtf! Why do they do this?

I just want to know how can I get a piece of mind while doing this? How do I feel like im not going to hard on the girl and it making me feel like im forcing her to do it?
I don't want her going crazy on me and I don't want to feel like im forcing her.

Basically what thoughts can I think to help me focus on process than reactions?
(Goes for approaching, escalation, etc.)

And chase, im surprised you didn't tell us how you got your game up In cali after upgrading your game when it still wasn't enough to get the girls out there.

What did you do to get the girls in cali after you transformed yourself?

What was the missing piece?

Thanks

Chase Amante's picture

Cars, Locale, Resistance, and Escalation

Author

Balla-

I'm not sure what kind of car you can get for $1000; I'd expect it'd be pretty hard to get anything decent for that price, but you might try going to a used car auction. You can sometimes get vehicles very cheap there. Or, maybe Carmax? They really lowball you if you're trying to sell your car there, but I imagine their prices for buyers can't be too much higher than the list price - terrible experience for sellers, but maybe good for buyers.

I've spent very little time in Florida, and I don't think any in Tampa that I can recall, so I'm not the one to ask about that. Check around, though; there are websites where people compare notes on various locales.

Girls will resist you because very often they aren't sure themselves until the moment they actually do something whether they want it or not. The most important thing is making sure that a girl always has a clear "out" she can take that she never feels pressured not to take. Leave her room to leave; make it easy for her to get up and walk out, never physically hold her down, etc. The more on the fence she seems to be, the more important this becomes, so that she always knows if anything happens that it's fully her decision, and nothing she was forced or pressured to do. For your part, just be persistent, keep inviting her, keep trying, but always leave her that out. Eventually, she'll either say, "Screw it, let's do it," or she'll get tired of you persisting and will get up and leave. Either is fine, and far superior to just hanging around and not doing anything.

If you need a thought to focus on to get you escalating, just think, "This girl is NOT going to just sit here and hang out on my bed [or whatever]; she can say 'no' to me and leave, or she can get into it and we'll get together, and those are the only two options."

As for me upgrading my game, well, that's all over this site! I was still only intermediate-level with girls when I moved to California. What I teach on Girls Chase is how to be more than that, and make things run faster, better, and easier for you than they are when you're just running beginner or intermediate-level game.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

two questions


Chase, there's something about your approach to dating I may not fully agree with or maybe I'm missing out on something. It's about state shift. If you approached a girl and you actually talked to her and she had a chance to meet you and SEE you and talk to you, or even you had a date with her and you talked for more than an hour and then she doesn't text you back or call you back I'd say she's not interested. I don't believe in this state shift thing. Any texting you do following her radio silence looks already needy to me. If we're attracted to someone we are always happy to have them contact us and I don't believe something like a bad day, rainy weather or work stuff can shift us to the point we no longer care (apart from real tragedies of course but such cases are rather rare). If a girl gets your message and she thinks "oh, not now I'm busy" and doesn't get back to you for a couple of days or more it means you didn't make the cut.

When I'm attracted to someone and I have a busy bad day and she texts me I get excited. If I feel tired and beaten and girl I'm interested in wants to see me I get this kick of energy. I think most people react this way. When I feel like it's too much effort to go out with her and I don't have the willpower to set up a meet and go out it's a sign for me I don't actually care about this girl. It's hard to turn things round in this case for her even if she shoots me another text weeks later and she's cool about it.

My second question concerns acting fast. I always seemed to be slowing down my game on the way to bed, interestingly not because I was afraid of acting and risking losing her but actually once I got them interested in me you could really see the girls going crazy for you in the course of time. Such sex then is always more passionate and even more "agressive" than bedding a horny girl on your first day.
I understand moving fast is important in situations like on holidays or business trips when your interaction with her is limited in time. Am I right?
What if you have a regular contact with a girl, for exemple as a teacher or trainer and get to meet her once a week no matter what. Do you think you can slow down you game and drag her all the way to make her want you even more?
For those girls who are experienced and used to getting a lot of attention and sex from men, isn't the game prior to bedding that makes her actually interested in you? And also how come bedding girls asap doen't validate the rule of being a challenge and actually she may feel like you're too easy and not a real challenge as a lover?

I'm interested in your opinion as your approach totally contradicts mine.

Chase Amante's picture

Girls on the Fence, Slow Game

Author

Anon-

I understand. State-shift is not about girls who've made up their minds on you; it's about the ones who are on the fence about you. You're quite correct that if a girl is very into you, she's going to respond to you, and the very act of receiving correspondence from you is going to trigger a positive change in emotions for her then and there.

The problem comes when you're dealing with ambiguous attraction, which can be hard for men to wrap their minds around because they don't usually experience it. If you're a man, a woman is either a "yes" or a "no" for you. If you're a woman, a man is sometimes a "probably yes" or a "probably no", but most of the time is a "I don't know, let me think about it later."

Most of the women you'll meet, especially if you're meeting them in places like bars and nightclubs, are meeting lots of different men, often while slightly (or very) inebriated. Even if you make a semi-decent impression then and there, there's a good chance that come Monday morning, you're not much more than a hazy memory from Saturday night. One she thinks, "Yeah, I think I liked that guy," about, but then shrugs and forgets all about it because she's busy right now and doesn't feel like responding. Catch her at the right time, and you get a response. Don't, and you won't. Most of the first 3 or 4 years of my time picking up women was spent picking up women in nightclubs, and this was something I saw time and again with the ones you didn't pick up but merely got phone numbers from; you'll text her, not get a response, then call her a few days later, get her on the phone, and she's happy to talk to you and then you meet up and have sex. Or you text her, no response; leave her a voicemail, no response; then later on she gets in touch with you on her own, and you end up in bed a few days after this.

This is also why it's better to switch mode of contact between no-responses; she doesn't respond to a text, so next you call and leave a voicemail. No response to that, you text her again. No response to the text, you call. If you switch it a couple of times and still don't get through, it's safe to write her off, but if you don't, you'll be missing out on a certain percentage of girls who would have gotten together with you had you gotten the timing or mode correct, but that you didn't get because you never found a way to move them off the fence.

Probably worth noting, in light of the rest of your comment, that slow game works best with women who are already very interested in or intrigued by you, OR who are always around you in some sort of social circle environment and cannot escape being exposed to you; women who are on the fence about you generally need to be slept with quickly, because they aren't really interested in spending much time on you or doing much else with you usually than a one-and-done.

Re: slow game - you can absolutely use slow game if you 1.) have the time and 2.) know what you're doing. I don't recommend it usually because the guys who know how to do it are going to do it regardless of what I say, while the guys who need to move fast are more likely to hear me say they can move slow and say, "Oh, okay - there, he said slow works too. So I'll just take it slow! No problem, right?" and then 6 months later they find out the girl has a boyfriend and they never get her. I don't use slow game much personally, because I'm impatient and don't care to spend a lot of time on social circle development / maintenance or on any one girl I haven't slept with, but I've used it on occasion with women I've worked with back in my employee days, and I've seen other men use it effectively.

Experienced women are good at slowing things down, because they have more control that way; they also tend to recognize right away if you're a guy they want fast sex with (usually because you flip all their triggers for this, and sex is the only thing they can imagine themselves wanting from you), or you're someone they'd like to pace themselves with while flirting with and teasing to keep you interested. For that reason, and for the reason of precedent in a relationship if you end up in one (i.e., being the fastest man to bed her vs. not being that man), I generally recommend guys move faster with a woman the more experienced she is (though this also gets harder the more experienced she is, and the more expert she is at slowing men down and resisting men's seduction efforts for all men who are not Fabios to her). However, if you also enjoy a slow process, I don't see much risk in it aside from losing some on-the-fence girls (and possibly dealing with the negative respect bonus from not being the fastest to bed a girl later on in a relationship, if you ever lose control of things); it essentially comes down to the heart-pounding, breathtaking whirlwind romance that unfolds in minutes or hours, OR the anticipation-building, slow burn romance than unfolds over days and weeks.

Sleeping with women quickly, when you're running fast game, uses sex as the reward, rather than a letting up of challenge, if you run the interaction properly; that is, you get her to invest a lot, and heavily earn sex with you, and finally provide it to her as her reward for her investment and for passing your screens. Done right, she gets sex right when she feels she deserves sex for all the investment she's made in you, and not giving her sex sends her into auto-rejection, bitter that she did so much for you and worked so hard to prove herself to you and you did not put out. If you choose to draw this process out and delay having women invest in you and prove themselves to you, having them instead do this over a longer period of time, you can uncompress things and extend the challenge as long as you like, within reason… though of course it helps if you're around the girl in social circle and/or have access to her over time, to repeatedly ping her and keep the anticipation high, as well as guard against her losing interest if she sleeps with someone else in the meantime, which doesn't always happen but sometimes will.

Chase

MonsterzRock's picture

Feb. 6, 2014 NY Times article about equal marriage = less sex


Hi Chase,

Hey, welcome to San Diego! LOL! I'm a native San Diegan and a lot of what
you mentioned is very true. I'm still trying to figure out which areas
are hiding all of the hot, 40-somethings.

I just wanted to share this link from a New York Times article about sex and marriage equality. I know it doesn't directly relate to THIS article but it does strike a couple of chords about a man's desperation or changing his standards, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/does-a-more-equal-marriage-me...

I would love to see your take on this as well as the other writers and other member comments. The article does hit on a number of themes you've written about before.

Chase Amante's picture

Equal Marriage, Hot 40-Somethings in SD

Author

Monsterz-

Yeah, that article gels pretty nicely with my experiences. I've had men criticize me for letting a long-term girlfriend do too much work while I just sit around, but then turn around and ask me how to get their girlfriends or wives to put out. They don't seem to understand the concept of "sex as reward"; when a guy's working as hard as his woman is, sex is something that is an equal trade between the two of them he hopes to maybe get from her possibly IF she wants it. Conversely, when she's working hard to keep her man happy, she also begins to view sex as both validation of their relationship (and her hard work), and also a reward for everything she's done; I've had multiple girlfriends refuse to let me off the hook from giving them sex even when I was very tired after "all they'd done" (e.g., cooked me a big dinner, really cleaned my place up, etc.). Of course, you've got to take your responsibility as provider of that reward serious, and make the sex very good ;)

As for where to find the hot 40-somethings in San Diego... have you tried Del Mar? I found myself in a random nightclub next to a restaurant I'd had dinner at with a group of friends there once in 2008 or 2009, and the buddy I went to the nightclub with and I found ourselves transported into another dimension, with a club filled with 40+ women in flashy low-cut dresses, with fake breasts, tiny waists, tanned skin, and more plastic surgery than you could shake a stick at. There were more women than men, and the men who were there ranged from 20-somethings out cougar hunting to men around the women's own ages. I saw one tiny woman with an incredible body whose face was stretched back so far I thought she must've been 60, though my friend though she was in her 40s, and she was dancing so hard that the 25-year-old she was shaking her booty with couldn't keep up. I'm told that place closed down, but I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere else, probably in Del Mar, took its place. A quick search on Yelp shows a few different bars open in Del Mar right now.

Chase

David26's picture

The ideal mind state


I suddenly understand the strengths of the male drive. I've done my best to abstain from masturbation. Instead of feeling indecisive about people, I instead think "forward, forward!" Even when I have awkward silences or make offhand comments I don't turn red or eject. I feel like I can stand my ground during these possible awkward moments, and I sort of transfer this sort of confidence where the other person also feels at peace with the lull or silence. It's like a sort of mutual understanding, when you are good friends you don't mind enjoying the silence together and don't get awkward. I feel like when you whether a silence or awkward moment together you get a bit closer, and the other person can see you as a leader since you helped them into a better state. As a curiosity, have you felt something similar?

Chase Amante's picture

Comfort with Silence

Author

David-

Yes, getting comfortable with what are awkward pauses for most people is an important part of developing socially. You can manage this even when less juiced with your vital essences with enough training and exposure (and practice just staying steady and calm during silences), but not having ejaculated recently gives you a major focus boost.

Ejaculating from sex is another one that robs you of focus; I've seen some guys experiment with having sex but no ejaculation for a month, and by the end of the month they had women opening them and propositioning them like crazy (sex raises testosterone; ejaculation lowers it; lots of sex with no ejaculation seems to just be a straight shot to the top for your t-levels).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Awkward Situation


Awesome article Chase. I don't really know how to word what I'm trying to ask so I'll describe a hypothetical situation. Let's say a girl asks to use your phone and you let her, but then she accidently drops it and you're in a situation where you can't get mad and don't want to seem like an ass for getting mad but also you don't want to let it go SO easily like it's nothing. All the while she is saying sorry etc. This didn't happen to me but my question is in regards to those type of tense situations.

Thanks

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Awkward Situation

Author

Anon-

I get it. It's where someone hurts you or your property accidentally and is genuinely sorry, but you still don't want to look like the pushover nice guy who goes, "Oh, no! It's fine! I didn't even like that phone anyway!" using his best Buddy the Elf impression.

In situations like that, you usually want to look annoyed, shake your head a bit, kind of sigh, and say, "It's fine - it's fine," while not making eye contact with the other person. You'll usually hold up your hands in a slightly dismissive / waving off gesture at around mid-body as well, and shrug up your eyebrows. Then just talk to someone else and ignore the person who caused the harm.

Essentially, you express your annoyance, then turn away from the other person and treat her like someone who's socially awkward. That's if this is a relative stranger. If it's someone you know and are close to, you'd just look at the broken phone (or whatever it is), take a deep breath, sigh slowly, then look at her with a, "Well, you can't win 'em all," look / pseudo-smile, and crack a joke about it ("And thus, my trend of no phone lasting longer than 6 months with me continues").

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hey


Hey, could someone direct me to that article about "finding out if she lies" ?

There was an insight on how to spot lies and there was a picture with Eyes, where they move, what it means ...

I can`t find it anywhere and i really need to read it again.

Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Article on Reading Lies

Author

Anon-

That's this one right here:

Tactics Tuesdays: Tell Someone Lying from Someone Who's Not

Chase

Troy's picture

Expectations


Hey Chase,

I should comment on this read. It was good and opened my eyes a bit more. Reason is because usually i see other men much lower status than me and what comes to mind is how i could help them to stop being such dirt bags. This article opened my eyes more that i should stop worrying about other people so much (not in a cold hearted way) and instead focus completely on my development.

While reading this article, a essential insight ive been thinking of was "Expectations".

When you talk about desperate men, what this mainly stems from is a lack of abundance with women, experience and especially anxiety formed by a man looking at expectations when he meets a girl and totally messes up because of fear of failure.

It occurs to me from personal experience and what ive seen that the word "expectations" have some good in life, but for the most part in socializing and seduction, having expectations can actually be detrimental to a mans improvement in these areas. when you find a girl you like and you think:

- I want to bang that chick
- I want that girl to be my girlfriend
- I want a date with that girl
- I want that girl's phone number
- I want (whatever) from that girl...

...What if when a man sees that sexy girl that ABSOLUTELY blows his mind, but he LACKS the experience or skills to pull off those things when he approaches that girl? Simple- he acts out of fear, puts the girl on a pedestal, undermines his own value then loses the girl. whats worse is that failure sucks and everytime that man fails without doing some self-analysis and looking at the goal ahead of him, he possibly falls prey to victim mentality or depression or INCREASED SOCIAL ANXIETY.

I've been there, you have been there and every other man has been there before. that crippling word, "EXPECTATIONS" is to me a powerful brakes in a truck that prevents it from moving even when the gas pedal is being pushed on a sound truck with the engine on and petrol in the tank.

There are a few articles on here similar to this topic but i find this topic on expectations rather interesting and may be a similar topic to "Women on Pedestals" and " How to Get Perfect 10 Girls" article but interesting in its own right for its own neat article.

Just imagine if men had no expectations in dating and seduction. Every fool and his brother would be trying to get a girl the moment they got a chance. I think desperate men, men with anxiety, men with lack of experience and an abundance mentality, and other social phobias is going around with too many expectations when meeting women.

I'd love to see an article on "Expectations" if that interests you, Chase?

What do you think?
Too many men fear rejection and failure because of expectations?

I think for this article the desperate men have too much phobias and lacks social calibration. To me, the million dollar question is: What are the ways that a man could let go of expectations?

I think this is a simple but essential mindset to get down

Troy

TORNADO's picture

Expectations - A Different View


I actually like your idea but I just wanted to share my idea of "Expectations" too.

Its different from yours but has the same meaning in a different way. I was infact in a strenuous relationship with a girl for one and a half years who kept stringing me along. She used the sentence "Expectations kill bonds" after I proposed her a 100 times and at the fag end of our tenure pleaded her to tell me where I went wrong. She used to feel that I expected too much from her.

But the funny story is that she was the one who started with all of this. Whenever she used to go somewhere, she used to inform me, if she didn't hear back from me when she texted or called me she used to get nervous and start apologizing etc. All of this played its own role in my mind and I eventually I also started doing the same things.

The turning point like Chase explained in his article "Attraction has an expiry date" was when I hit the downward curve and she started resisting to small things like moving her, phone calls etc. She also stopped doing all those stuff like informing me, apologizing etc.

But, unfortunately I was still in that mode and when I continued to be in the same mode, she used to get irritated and tell me that I expect too much from her - asking her details and that I think too much when I used to get crazy when she used to not take my calls or not reply to my message and I used to tell her that she used to do the same things before, she used to avoid that topic altogether.

Even though I don't talk to her now, this has sort off formed as a habit which annoys the other girls in my life. Even though I am very cautious now, sometimes I slip and start doing those things with the new girls I know and this has led to some of them even friend-zoning me.

The point I am try to make Troy is that sometimes these "Expectations" are created by the opposite sex themselves in your psychology.

Now I am not trying to say that this girl who I met was pure evil or a witch. But it so could have happened that she did these things inadvertently. When I met her, she was a newbie and I was already a powerful guy, well settled with many friends and projects. Probably that could have instilled fear and respect and she used to do those things as a means to worship me and then I screwed things up by putting her on a pedestal.

Concluding, I only would say that watch out, sometimes these expectations are not created by us, but by them. We should just see to it that we maintain our cool and not let these things affect our psyche. Cheers!

Chase Amante's picture

Different Expectations

Author

Troy-

Yeah, that's an interesting way of thinking about it, and worth exploring in an article. The inexperienced man expects rejection and no success; the experienced man excepts to go through rejection and ultimately find success; and so on and so forth.

Meantime, you can use visualization to help reset expectations, but the only real way to consistently change these is by going out and getting enough experience in that you realize your expectations were wrong, and new ones take form in your consciousness instead.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

"She's bragging and


"She's bragging and showboating.." Love that

Only recently did I make this level. Now some women's hands tremble slightly as we talk.

They don't completely trust me, and probably shouldn't

V's picture

Help/Stop sucking with women


Chase hello, I've been deep inside my thoughts lately and it's been wrecking my emotionally. I attract girls and I always attracted girls. It's just I was never good with them and I guess im still bad now since im writing this. On this part I would just like to know what I can do to get rid of the pain I had in the past?

I always tried getting laid when I was younger, but I could not get it for the life of me and people would make fun of me for being a virgin at 14. They never knew anything about me they just assumed I guess because I had no girlfriend. They made fun of me for years and for those years I was trying to get laid like a mad man to no avail. I didn't lose my virginity until later and then when me and my ex got into it one day she told everyone she took my virginity. I told her I wasn't a virgin and fucked her like I wasn't but, she still insisted that she took it and told everyone that. Good thing is nobody had anything to say about it. But for some reason people always worried about my sex life and girlfriends I had all the time. I'd tell them I wasn't a virgin and all, but people wouldn't believe and just kept making fun of things they really shouldn't care about. I even had this one girl ask another if I was a virgin.

It just makes me so angry that they really care about my life so much and to keep talking shit about me.

My questions for this part are:
1. Why was everybody so worried about my sex life to such an extent that a girl asked my fuckin close friend if I was a virgin?

2. How could they tell or why didn't they believe I wasn't a virgin? I wasn't nervous about it or anything and actually I never even did anything to provoke it. They would just say it for no reason in the middle of nowhere. Why?

3. How can I stop thinking about this? It drives me crazy and I really feel that I am my past and that no matter how good I get with women I'll still remember those horrible times.
4. I honestly care so much about people thinking bad of me and I want to stop it.

Part 2 is basically me trying my ass off then and now to get laid and it hasn't gotten me anywhere but feeling like shit.

I've been trying to fuck girls since I was 13 but it never happened. I would ask out countless girls and I didn't get any. When I got somewhere with a girl she wouldn't go through with it. This is my luck in a nut shell. One time my friend had this girl give him oral, he fucked, and took pics of here. I got her to my place and I got soo close then she just snapped out of it and put her clothes back on. She offered to suck my dick but I had to return the favor and I said no. Basically I had a hard time trying to fuck a hoe. Anyway, I've been trying all my life and I've just been rejected and rejected after so many years. Now in my years girls are a lot more easier because I've gained experience, got older, and this site right here, but im still not having any luck. Getting my lay counts up are extremely difficult and I don't want to waste time I want to get may lays up serious and stop sucking with women so much. I read the article about victim mentality and it probably sounds like that, but Im taking the blame and saying I suck with women and I want to stop. I honestly don't want to sleep with women just to get a nut, I actually want the experience of all the different girls, from race, body, personality, everything.

My questions for this second part are:
Can you explain what you think about my story of trying to get laid and getting rejected since 13 and how a hoe even rejected me?

And could you please do an article on how to not suck with women?

Thank you chase!!!!!

Verisimilitude's picture

Sucking with women


V,

There are so many parts to this that. But don't let your past drag you down. It sounds like you need to work a bit more on fundamentals and the right way to approach. Read the article on dealing with failure for more on not getting down.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Help/Stop sucking with women

Author

V-

I'd agree with Verisimilitude, it sounds like your fundamentals need much more focus.

I get the impression from reading your comment that your focus is entirely, "How do I get laid?" and not, "How do I become more attractive to women?" nor, "How do I improve my skill set with women?"

That's kind of like a guy deciding he wants to be rich, and then constantly asking himself, "How can I make millions? God, it's so frustrating that I don't have millions," without ever stopping and saying, "What kind of a business do I have to build that will produce things other people want so much that they will buy in spades?"

In other words, your focus is on you and what you want, instead of on others and what they want. But nobody's going to give you anything unless you start giving them what they want. Women have zero interest in giving you sex because you want sex. They only want sex with you if you give them the experiences and emotions and excitement they need to want sex with you.

I'd focus on a mindset shift more than anything - quit thinking about what you want, and instead start thinking about what you need to give other people in order to get it. What's this girl need in order to WANT to sleep with you? Give her what she wants, and you'll get it.

When you're younger, kids put a focus on virginity because sex has become the rite of passage in Western society since we have no other way of becoming a man. A boy doesn't become a man until he's had sex. So, other young men will tease you about not being a virgin... and in so doing, hope that they imply to others that they themselves are not virgins. What you'll generally find though is that once a guy's actually lost his virginity, he stops caring about virginity; so, ironically, the kids teasing you about virginity invariably turn out to be virgins themselves.

Chase

Gem's picture

Typing skills


Hey Chase,

I’ve been trying to improve my typing and get it faster and wondered if you have any tips (I’m willing to bet you type pretty darn fast)? I write a fair bit on keyboard, almost every day and at the very least a few thousand words every couple of days.

My typing is off, I should mention, in that I didn’t learn traditional typing and a few fingers on my right and left hand are off from traditional typing (especially on my left). I type 70 wpm on average but I feel this is really slow compared to how fast I could type if my fingers were always properly placed. I’ve come to recognize that when learning any skill, your fundamentals/basic procedures are most crucial to master before learning and advancing more (because they end up being the foundation on which everything else is built; unstable foundation means flimsy building regardless of how tall it becomes).

I guess this roots to a deeper question here then: when fundamentals of any skill are off, would a person have to fix the fundamentals and learn from the beginning? Or maybe they would just have to fix a thing or two with their fundamentals and then they could retain/practice the intermediate bits that they’d already learned?

So in the context of my typing, would I have to learn to type properly and learn everything from scratch, or would there be some way for me to fix a few things and get good at typing normally?

-Gem

Chase Amante's picture

Typing / Fundamentals

Author

Gem-

It's generally most difficult teaching the "unteachable" people who've learned to do things a certain (wrong) way, but then aren't willing to change that way or don't see what they're doing as wrong. It's something I've seen time and again with seduction... the guys who have the hardest path toward results are the ones who've learned some alternate means of pickup that doesn't work that well for them, then refuse to do anything any differently because they're so certain it's correct, but want you to help them get more success anyway. It's kind of like if a guy insisted that he wasn't going to do anything other than friend zone, because friend zone is the ultimate way to eventually make it into any girl's heart, he's certain, but he'd still like you to help him get more girlfriends, please.

That's very different if you know what's wrong and are willing to fix it, though. With typing, I'd probably advise looking up some of those typing games (there are games you can play where you have to type words, and a little guy shoots at word monsters and things of that sort), and forcing yourself to type the "correct" way, assuming you already know where your fingers should go. If you don't, I'd advise going through a "learn typing" program (you can find them online) - that'll be starting from scratch, essentially, but learning typing doesn't take too long, and since you're only doing a few fingers, you probably won't find it too challenging.

Alternately, if you REALLY want your typing to go as fast as possible, and you'll be starting from scratch anyway, get a Dvorak keyboard and learn on that. The Qwerty keyboards that are standard today were actually designed to slow down typing by placing the most commonly-used letters in weird positions, to prevent rapid typists from jamming up typewriter machinery; Dvorak is a keyboard optimized for normal usage that allows you to type significantly faster if you learn it than even the fastest Qwerty keyboardists can type.

Chase

Balla's picture

What to rap about?


Chase, is there a way I can make hits in the rap game and stay relevant without talking about drugs and gang banging?

What else can I rap about to make good songs and how do I get more experiences on life?

Thanks

Chase Amante's picture

Re: What to rap about?

Author

Balla-

You can rap about whatever you want, just make the music good. I'd argue that the talk about drugs and gangbangs slips by more than anything do to good music more than that the content makes the music float; most rap artists are far too boring in their use of the same topics again and again. Hits are mostly only hits because of the music. There are exceptions - there are songs that win awards for their content, or are specifically noted for being profound - but even those usually have great music.

Standard content + great music = popular hit. Great content + great music = popular hit + awards. Great content + crappy music = small cult following that loves you for your lyrics and what you talk about.

So, focus on getting good music... and then you can talk about whatever you want ;)

Chase

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