340Breeze poses an intriguing “What if?” scenario over on the article about astrology:
“An interesting question is how do you think women would behave in general toward men (in terms of their attitude, expectations, submissiveness, physical attributes (caring about being fat vs slim), etc) if the vast majority of available men were completely unwilling to trade (access to resources, money, etc )for hopes of sex? I know this is unrealistic since clearly women have choice in men because: (1) men are the agressive sex meaning women have lots of suitors just by being a woman; and (2) men seem to want women’s vjs more than women want what men have to offer.”
I think this one’s worth addressing because I see a lot of frustration from guys on various corners of the Internet about desperate men trading their time and energy to women in exchange for the hope of a chance to maybe possibly someday if they’re lucky have a shot at entering said women’s vaginas.
The talk is that these desperate men make it harder for everyone else to get laid, and/or that women are becoming overly entitled as a result of it.
And to some extent... there’s a nugget of truth in there, yeah.
But to a larger extent, this is looking at the problem all wrong, with blinders on to the real setup – and the real solution.
Personally, I worry about desperate men’s impact on my ability to sleep with women about as much as Bentley worries about Kia flooding the market with underpriced crudmobiles.
That is, not at all.
That’s because there is not “one market” in which all men are evaluated by the same standards. Rather, there are three markets:
... each of these catering to one piece of the pie of what women want.
Most men compete on being a better #1 or a better #3, because these are easier, and these are more clearly defined by society. Most people do what most other people do, because most people like following well-worn paths, rather than hacking their way through overgrown jungles they’re warned off of venturing into by everyone else.
Me, I compete on the #2 role, and the competition for that role almost everywhere in the world is thin. That’s because it’s harder, it takes more training, and it’s far more nuanced. The lover is the Bentley or the Aston-Martin of the dating world.
The fact is, just like with top-shelf luxury automobiles, there tend to be very few competitors vying with you at the upper echelons, and plenty of buyers. Conversely, down in the dregs where the bottom-feeders duke it out (all those men competing to be women’s “friends” in real life), competition is fierce, and the rewards are faint. It’s like gutting your fellow men for leftovers down there, compared to a gentlemen’s game of chess at the upper echelons, where everyone takes home a prize (or two, or three).
And despite the fact that places like Girls Chase exist, specifically to train men to quit risking metaphorical life and limb in the friend zone arena for scraps off the feast at some girl’s table and instead to progress themselves to more refined and productive pursuits, most men keep on doing it anyway, because they’re lazy, clueless, and desperate, and they lack the ability and the foresight to treat themselves as self-improvement projects, delaying gratification until tomorrow while leveling up their abilities today.
Why Desperate Men Don’t Scare Me
The average girl I meet is inundated all day long with texts, images, and social media updates from legions of suitors vying for her favor. They want her to see what adoring fans of her they are; they want her to know how attractive they find her. They want to communicate what loyal devotees of the cult of HER they have been; they want to demonstrate their dutiful faithfulness and unwavering fidelity.
When she goes out to party and drink with her friends, she’s hit on
by one sloppy drunken man after another, each of whom is able to muster
little more than clumsy compliments and boring conversation that either
brags and showboats about himself, or attempts to interview her on the
most uninteresting, standard, and impersonal subjects about her life he
can think of, on only the most superficial levels. After all, it’s no
good when people you don’t know that well yet get too personal, he
reasons. He can always ask her the deep stuff once they’re
When she goes to school or work, and attends extracurricular activities, she meets men who throw themselves after her in the most transparent ways, offering up their time and energy to her to be of service in whatever way they can use to get their feet in the door of her life, looking for any possible way she might value them so they can shoehorn themselves in. They are so clueless and desperate for women that they are prepared to offer up damn near anything merely for the chance to even have a chance.
And the moment she meets me, these men are immediately irrelevant.
All the certainty she feels around those other men evaporates.
All the firm control she’s so used to wielding around them vanishes.
All the poise, strength, and dominance she usually has is replaced by nervousness and clumsiness and girlishness and excitement.
To me, she is just another little girl, and I am intrigued, but not impressed. The things she does that other men worship and pedestalize are to me just silly and cute... trifling women’s things that I have affection for, but certainly am not impressed by.
I’ve seen all these things again and again with thousands and thousands of women. To me, she is just another girl... a commodity. One of millions; a dime a dozen. All the incredible specialness and uniqueness she holds for her devotees is completely unapparent to me.
But she is not slighted. She is not in auto-rejection. Because I am not treating her like nothing. I still treat her warmly, and for this, she is relieved. She knows she has a chance. She knows that if she just tries hard enough, she might be able to get me.
Her attempts are often clumsy compliments and boring conversation that either brags or showboats about herself, or attempts to interview me on the most uninteresting, standard, and impersonal subjects about my life she can think of, on only the most superficial levels. If I know her from social circle, she will sometimes throw herself after me in the most transparent of ways, offering up her time and energy to be of service in whatever way she can to use to get her foot in the door of my life, looking for any possible value she might use to shoehorn her way in.
She is a bit more socially calibrated than the desperate men hitting on her are, but not much; reading her interest levels to me are like reading 72-point font. There’s no mistaking it for even an instant.
With her, I will tell her what I want, and if she will comply with it she will continue to have a shot with me. If she will not, well, then – been nice knowing you; and now I’m off to meet someone new. Though of course, if you change your mind later and want to play ball on my terms, my door is open... for a little while.
The desperate men around her have absolutely no bearing on her
relationship with me, nor do
I spend even a second of thought worrying about how they’re affecting
her. They’re entirely unrelated to anything between her and I. There is
us; and there is all of them... utterly unconnected.
What Do You Care What Kia is Doing?
If you’re worried about men flooding the market with underpriced goods, you’re worried about the wrong thing; that is, you’re worried about what the cheap-o competitors are doing to your bottom line.
But the cheap-o competitors aren’t even in the same market.
Sure, Kia sells cars; so does Bentley. But does anyone think for an instant that the people who want a Kia want a Bentley, or that the people who want a Bentley want a Kia?
Also, if someone had the choice between a hundred Kias (that he
couldn’t resell or otherwise monetize or use for anything but his own
personal driving) and a single Bentley, which do you think he’d most
likely choose? He probably wouldn’t even have the garage space for all
those useless Kias, and his friends wouldn’t be nearly impressed by him
having a hundred Kias parked all over the neighborhood than they would
by him having a single Bentley.
If you’re a new car manufacturer and you’re just opening up your doors, the pressure to compete with Kia is going to be immense. It’s what everyone else seems to be doing; if you don’t compete on price, how can you possible win the car sales game?
If you want my opinion, you should NEVER compete on price. You should NEVER be the cheap-o option, in business or women or anything else. You end up doing MORE work over the long haul, for dramatically LESS result.
You shouldn’t be worried about what cheap car makers – or those desperate men living in the friend zone – do. What you should be worried about, instead, is how to turn yourself into Bentley; how do you become the man that makes women immediately forget all the desperate men pursuing them and gaze at him with their big doe eyes?
Now, that’s not to say that market competition doesn’t exist. There aren’t a lot of direct competitors to Bentley (only Aston-Martin comes to mind as more or less a peer), but there are companies like BMW and Mercedes-Benz and Jaguar and Lexus and Audi, and these seem “elite enough” that many buyers have trouble telling the difference... or telling why they should pay more for a Bentley.
Then, there are the different “types” out there – you can buy a Bentley for a smooth ride, or a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for an exciting one.
This is much like what you’ll encounter in the dating market; while desperate men are pretty irrelevant, men who are “good enough” do impact your relative sexual market value, and men who are direct competitors or other “types” at your level impact it even more.
For our purposes, we’ll define your main competitors then as:
- Attractive boyfriend options
- Direct lover competitors
- Other flavors of lover
... and here’s where your sexual market value calculations really get interesting.
How Genuine Competition Affects You
When I moved from Washington, D.C. to San Diego, California, one of the first things I noticed was that the women, on average, looked a good bit hotter. One of the next things I noticed was that the men were cooler, buffer, and a lot more aggressive in approaching women than the men back in D.C.
Truth be told, I felt a little out of my element at first. Pickup was noticeably harder in Southern California. At first I thought it was just my lack of a venue – I had a favorite club back in D.C. where I had a very reliable pick up rate – but I soon realized that women in San Diego were just harder to get than women in Washington were.
They were less diverse, were more accustomed to more attractive men, were more accustomed to being approached, were more accustomed to aggressive behavior from men, and were more inured to game. There were also a lot fewer of them, relatively speaking; while female:male ratio in D.C. is a favorable one for single men, San Diego grossly favors single women, with far more single men than single women.
I’d picked a new hometown where I was playing against much stiffer competition than I had been before.
Even after I’d adapted – I slimmed down, put on more
muscle, upgraded my fashion, got a sexy haircut,
grew out some sexy facial hair, put together a sexual vibe – when I outclassed
almost any guy one-on-one, it was still tougher odds there because
women just aren’t as desperate for a sexy man in San Diego as women
in D.C. are.
Sure, they still value him highly; he’s still more in-demand than a friend or a boyfriend is.
There’s just more worthwhile competition, is all.
Of course, without SoCal to force me to level up my game, I’d never have reached where I eventually got to, most likely. Though I’m probably fortunate I cut my teeth in a somewhat less competitive environment and racked up success before moving to the Southern California meat grinder.
The New York Times has a great anecdotal write up on how gender ratios skew the dating game in its 2010 article “The New Math on Campus”, which discusses women complaining about having to hook up quickly with men on college campuses where the ratio is slanted to 60% women, 40% men:
““A lot of my friends will meet someone and go home for the night and just hope for the best the next morning,” Ms. Lynch said. “They’ll text them and say: ‘I had a great time. Want to hang out next week?’ And they don’t respond.”
Even worse, “Girls feel pressured to do more than they’re comfortable with, to lock it down,” Ms. Lynch said.
As for a man’s cheating, “that’s a thing that girls let slide, because you have to,” said Emily Kennard, a junior at North Carolina. “If you don’t let it slide, you don’t have a boyfriend.””
Conversely, I’ve read plenty of reports of schools where the ratio is reversed – 60% men, 40% women – and in these places, men find hooking up almost impossible, and settle into relationships as soon as they can get them, satisfying themselves with the friend zone in the meantime as they hope for a chance to have a chance with some girl.
Attractive Boyfriend Options
By “attractive boyfriend options”, what I mean here are not only the men who are great potential boyfriends and comfortably accept that role, but also the men who think they’re playboys, and who act like they’re playboys, but whom women really just view as someone they’d maybe consider as a boyfriend. These are often the somewhat-charming guys who go around talking loudly and cracking jokes and slapping people on the back and trying a little too hard to be bad boys.
These guys affect your market value, as a sexually attractive male, because they give girls options. While most women will recognize that you are the more desirable option, they feel safer knowing that there are attractive boyfriend options around (these guys don’t dote on women like a friend zone orbiter does, but many of them typically don’t cut contact ever – once they have a girl’s phone number, she’s getting text messaged at least intermittently until the end of time), and, thus, your scarcity takes a major hit; girls aren’t as afraid of losing you, they’re less willing to invest in you, and they’re less likely to chase and will tend to chase with less fervor when they do chase than women in environments more favorably skewed.
This is when the market becomes not just a choice between Kia and Bentley anymore; this is when it’s now a choice between Kia, Audi, Mercedes, and Bentley. Maybe she knows that Bentley is more valuable than Audi or Mercedes, but if she’s got a realistic shot at an Audi or a Mercedes, she’s not going to feel too rushed to make up her mind about whether to splurge and buy that Bentley or take her time and see if she can haggle the price down.
Direct Lover / Other Flavor of Lover Competitors
The good news is that there are few genuine lovers out there, so the competition here is not too fierce. The biggest thing impacting your ability to attract lots of women and sleep with women fast and in large quantities is the number of attractive boyfriend options that undermine urgency and put the ball back into women’s courts.
That said, direct competitors and different flavors of lover can be a pain if you happen to find yourself in a dating market that has a fair number of these. That’s rare; it can happen though in situations like going to a party in the U.S. where most of the men there are sexy French and Italian men and you’re just some plain old American guy (this has happened to me), or attending an afterparty where the major even there is the group of guys from the rock band, and you’re just another party guest. You can still pull things off sometimes in these environments, but the deck is stacked firmly against you, no matter how solid your fundamentals and game otherwise are.
Fortunately, outlier individuals tend to be rare enough that they usually won’t affect your sexual market value on a citywide scale; usually their effects are relegated to a small local level (party, restaurant, event, etc.).
I’d heard about how big the environment was in affecting your outcome from a sexual market value point of view (though not in those terms) for years, but I spent little time thinking about that until I’d traveled much more extensively.
In fact, I’d heard that supply and demand forces were at play before I ever relocated to SoCal; I’d heard the girls had “pickier tastes” and that more aggressive men made for more reserved females. Both turned out to be true, based on where I was hailing from, but missed the biggest picture (and simpler) view: there was just a greater supply of sexually attractive and aggressive men in Southern California than there was in anywhere else I’d been, with comparatively lower demand (fewer available women).
When you start traveling abroad, you really notice the effect, because of the foreigner novelty boost you get. Just like French men are sexy to American women, and Greek men are sexy to British women, so too are British men sexy to French women, and American men sexy to Greek women. On average, of course – an unattractive Italian guy still doesn’t score many points, just as an unattractive Brit guy doesn’t. You’ve got to mold yourself into something women want first, not just change countries and hope for the best.
Although, what you tend to find is that the men who travel are frequently among some of the more ambitious individuals from their countries, and ambition takes care of a lot of things: ambition leads to you fixing up your looks, getting down tight wit and conversational abilities, having an interesting life with a range of adventurous experiences, and things of that ilk. Research also shows that individuals to emigrate to new countries tend to be the most genetically fit of their populations overall, too.
You can see where this article’s going, I think, both from that New York Times article about the skewed college campus ratios and this discussion about the novelty boost you see as a foreigner: your sexual market value is affect dramatically by the conditions of the market you place yourself (or find yourself, if your life is less self-directed) in.
Selling Refrigerators to Eskimos (or Amazons?)
“He’s so good he could sell a fridge to an Eskimo,” goes the old saying about a salesman who’s especially talented.
And thus we arrive at the age old question regarding doing better in any market:
- Do you want to learn how to sell refrigerators to Eskimos? or
- Do you want to move down to the tropics and sell fridges to the Amazons?
My assumption on Girls Chase is that the majority of the readers can’t or don’t want to move from where they are. I dislike giving anyone the advice of “you should change cities/countries”, because in my opinion that doesn’t much solve the problem... unless you’re living somewhere so sparsely populated that there aren’t enough women to practice learning game on. If that’s the case, yeah – move.
Generally though, you can think of this website as teaching you how to sell fridges to Eskimos. I’m assuming you live in a reasonably competitive place where you’re a local and have no exotic-ness boost to work with. And indeed, these are the best environments to get as good as you possibly can with women in – they will require you become the most attractive you can be, and develop the tightest game you can develop.
At some point though, it’s always worthwhile to ask: “Would I be happier to go sell fridges in the tropics?”
You may not even need to go very far to do that. Oftentimes, there are completely different areas within a given city; in San Diego, for instance, there is tons of male competition for women in Pacific Beach, but far less of it in La Jolla (the upscale part of town) or North Park (the trendy hipster part of town). You can still pull and sleep with girls in PB... but it’s just easier doing so in other parts of town.
If you can go farther – i.e., change cities, or move overseas – awesome new vistas await (assuming you choose well). In fact, you can pick for all kinds of reasons and features – if you’re in the States and you like bleached blonde fitness bunnies, Southern California is the place for you; if you prefer liberal intellectuals, it’s the Pacific Northwest; if you like ladder-climbing intellectuals and lots of foreign women, D.C.; if you like a diverse population with an enviable girl:guy ratio, NYC; and if you like down-to-Earth, friendly girls, somewhere in the Midwest is ideal. The kinds of women you can meet in Europe, Asia, and everywhere else is equally diverse, dependent on locale.
Worries About Sexual Market Value
... for this reason are usually way overblown (and not a little myopic).
True, if you live in a place with a bad market for men (that is, one where your services are not very much in demand), it will seem like the sexual marketplace is all out of whack. Or, if you’ve yet to upgrade yourself and are more inclined to victim mentality than you are self-development, it’ll seem this way too... since you’ll be too busy competing with all the other cheap-o options doing whatever you can to get a foot in the door with some girl... any girl.
But spend a little time upgrading your fundamentals, or change to a location more favorable toward you, and your views will change.
The difference you see after an upgrade or a change to another city often isn’t immediately apparent – because women rarely chase after men, you’re mostly gauging the results you get with them in reaction to you, and the lines here are constantly being blurred by mixing successes with rejections. The mind isn’t very good at processing 10% or 20% or even 30% success rate boosts when it’s juggling a number of successes and an even larger number of failures. Which is probably why changing self and changing location don’t seem as obvious as they should be to so many men who are trying to figure out why their sexual market value seems to be so much lower than it should be...
... while other men don’t lose an ounce of sleep over this because they’re at a level and/or live in an environment where getting women is like picking cherries, and it’s the women who do all the complaining about how hard it is to find a good man there.
So: if you find yourself stressing out over how desperate men are threatening your own sexual success with their ineffective but validating efforts, just keep in mind that Bentley doesn’t sweat what Kia is doing, no matter how desperately Kia slashes prices on its latest aluminum box on wheels.
Instead, Bentley just focuses on making the best product it can make, and making sure that it’s selling it to the customers who are the most interested in what it has on offer.
Just as you want to be doing, too.
Next on the reading list: Sexual Economics: The Lover and the Provider.