Why Most Guys Perform Badly at Game In Bars and Clubs – And What to Do About It


Note from Chase: Halvor is our latest addition to the site – a close friend of Alek’s and a longtime devotee of the seductive arts (and fellow Norwegian). An engineer by trade, he’s spent a great deal of time studying both in-depth psychology and nightlife pickup, and plans to focus more on helping newer members with troublesome mindsets starting out. Halvor also posts under the alias “sparxx” over on Sedfast. Here he is.


Are you starting out as a practitioner of seduction in bars or clubs?

meet women in a bar or nightclub

Have you already been trying out this scene without getting any results?

If you said yes to either of these questions, this article is for you; though some of the advice is also relevant for other kinds of game.

Bars and clubs are popular places to meet women and have several advantages. Many women go there in order to meet a man for a casual sexual encounter, and if you meet the right woman, you may go home with her in under 10 minutes. Yes, I’m not kidding.

But still, the realities in seduction at nighttime are rather harsh. Most guys do not succeed at all or have very inconsistent results; their interactions just result in rejection or being ignored. This is true for the average guy and it is regretfully very often also true for guys who are trying to learn seduction. But a few guys succeed more or less consistently, and today I’ll give you some pointers to becoming one of them, or at least get some results, if you’re currently not getting any at all.


The 2 Big Problems with Bars and Clubs

The problems guys face with seduction in bars and clubs can be broadly divided into two categories:


#1: Problems that are caused by not being attractive enough [poor fundamentals]

You might have noticed that there are two kinds of guys in respect to success with women. Most men, at least in Western or Westernized societies, complain that they rarely or never get laid, while a few men get laid all the time and basically don’t worry much about getting women.

The lesson is that you need to be among the top 10-20% of men in overall attractiveness in order to get anything near consistent results. This is of course to some extent subjective, as different cultures have somewhat different standards of beauty, and also women are drawn to various archetypes of attractive men.

Superficial traits, social intelligence, good mood, and absence of anxiety are very important in bar and club game. Most guys who struggle at it need to work on several of these areas. Have a look around you the next time you go to a popular bar or club. Are you among the top 10-20% of males in terms of general attractiveness?


#2: Problems that are caused by not being able to “sell the product” [poor game]

It might sound a bit cynical to uses a sales analogy, but the mating grounds of bars and clubs are markets just as any other market. There is supply and demand – and not only do you have to be in demand, you also need to be able to “sell” the product – that is yourself!

Even highly attractive guys might screw up at bar and club game due to not being able to socially interact with women, failing to recognize the women who are interested in them, or by being too passive, expecting women to lead the entire interaction. Many guys also get nervous when getting interest from the opposite sex and fail due to that.


Remedying The 2 Main Problems

The good news is that it is possible to remedy most of these problems to a great degree, though it will require effort.

meet women in a bar or nightclub

Some steps to remedy problems of type #1 (lack of attractiveness / poor fundamentals):

  • Bar and club game is very superficial and it helps a lot to have a well-exercised body. Work out three times a week with weights. You don’t need to look like a male underwear model or have a six-pack, but getting down to normal weight and having some muscles, especially in the arms, shoulders, and chest, is important. Stop eating junk food and don’t drink soda or too much alcohol.

  • You also need to dress well for the same reason. Guys who stand out in a positive way get much more attention than guys who look “average” compared to the rest of the crowd. Fashion varies with time and location, so get some local guys you know are good with women to comment on your style, and if they disapprove, go on a shopping round with them.

  • Being in a good mood is very important. It increases your chances of women being interested in talking to you, and it also increases the chance that they will eye-code you to come and talk to them or even approach you. In contrast, nobody wants to share the bad mood of another person. Spend time around people you like before going out and avoid people you dislike and other sources of negativity.

  • You need to be above a certain level of social experience. Many guys who attempt to learn seduction are simply not socially experienced enough. They should spend more time in social circles or going to parties, because women will treat you better when they know you are cool enough to get invited and also that you are most likely not a security risk to them. Even if you don’t get immediate results, this will teach you a lot about socializing. Also, speak a few lines with every person you meet during the day, as this improves your skills at small talk.

  • Make sure you are not tired or sleep-deprived when going out. This is a very big mood-killer, and people will often notice. Sleep an hour or two before going out if necessary. For most guys, drinking too much alcohol, especially several days in a row, is also something that will exhaust them and spoil their mood.

Some steps to remedy problems of type #2 (lack of “salesmanship” / poor game):

  • Many guys are anxious to speak with women in the first place. This is completely natural, and even the experts at this kind of game have such problems. It will NOT hinder you from getting some results. Women are also often a bit nervous on approaching guys. It is only a big problem if you suffer from completely paralyzing anxiety. Then you should do some inner work before attempting bar and club game at all. If your anxiety is mild, doing some approaches on the street or in another club before going to the main venue will often loosen you up and get you into a more talkative mood.

  • Being able to recognize women who are interested in you is very important. It can save you a lot of time and bad interactions. Women who smile at you or eye-code you are often ready to be approached. But don’t depend exclusively on this, there are many women who do not give you a hint to approach who will be interested, and also there are some women who are just interested in your attention and nothing more. You will learn to recognize them by experience.

  • You have to sexualize the interaction in some way, usually within 10-20 minutes, before she gets bored or thinks you are not interested. This can be done through either talking about sex or physical touch.

  • Are you using all your time talking with women you know will not go home with you? Hanging out with female friends can be cool, but you won’t meet new women if you just talk to them and no other women during a night out.

  • Do not let your interactions wander into endless chatter about nonsexual topics. If there is no touching, flirting, or talk about sexual topics within 10-20 of minutes, the woman is either not interested or you have failed to lead.

  • A common mistake is to have too long make-outs with women. You want to amp her up, not discharge all her excitement in meeting a hot guy. Ask her to go home with you after some time. You can do this either by being very direct about your intentions or through a more indirect way, like suggesting a drink at your place.

  • This brings us upon the next problem some guys face: you need to have a location where sex can happen without interference. Ideally, you have your own place within 15 minutes of walking or taxi from the bar or club in question. If you live with other people you should have an agreement with them that they will not interfere, and also you should keep your place reasonably clean and tidy. If you don’t have your own place, you may suggest going to her place if it is not too far away. Women often feel more comfortable at home, but there is also the risk that she might live with others who could get in your way.

  • Some guys are comfortable with approaching and seducing average women but will avoid or screw up with hotter women. This is usually caused by either not having worked enough on attractive traits or having fallen into the bad mental habit of believing than some women are “out of their reach”. By not trying, you will never be able to disprove such a belief, so those who master the basics should regularly try to push the limits when it comes to hotness.


Doing Better at Bars and Clubs

Now you have several ways to debug your night game and remedy problems.

And don’t get me wrong, you absolutely don’t have to do everything perfectly, and in fact, trying to do everything 100% correctly will often lead to “paralysis through over-analysis” and much worse results than guys who make a solid attempt even if their strategy is not flawless. Well-groomed, cool, attractive guys also get away with much more than their less attractive brothers and are rarely harshly rejected.

meet women in a bar or nightclub

It is much better to do something than to not even try seriously.

You do learn even from screwing up, and all good seducers, whether they learned it naturally through experience or have studied seduction, have screwed up a lot and CONTINUE to screw up rather often. A rejection does not even have to be permanent; the same woman might respond completely differently on a later occasion.

As a closing remark, note that even the most experienced ladies men have bad nights where nothing works or they simply fail due to circumstances outside their control – like interfering strangers. Not even experts succeed on every attempt. Social skills are like martial arts: you can basically practice them forever, as there is no upper limit on how good you can become.

Lastly, bar and club game is also something you might not want to do for the rest of your life, as staying up all night in order to meet women will interfere with work, studies, or exercise regimes, and there are also health concerns in the long run if you drink too much.

If you want to get good at it from a level of not getting results, expect to spend a few years going out at least two nights per week.

Bar and club game is most suitable for guys who like to interact with a lot of strangers and have superficial conversations with them. If you don’t enjoy that, you will still be able to get results, but you might find it harder to motivate yourself to go out often enough to get reasonable progress. If you are not willing to expend the required effort, it might be better to focus your energy on online game, social circle game, or day game.

Halvor Jannike

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

looks


I'm happy somebody paid attention to the importance of looks in the first place. Chase always seems to underrated I think.
The philosophy is simple. I've noticed if you're good looking or at least have on extraordiary thing, like outstanding eyes or hair all the gates are open for you. You have to try hard to be UNattractive and unless you do something super stupid you're on fire.
On the contrary, if your look is average you have to bend all the ways with your intellect but in most cases you won't get out of the entertainer's role if a girl doesn't like you face.
This is the truth nobody likes to talk about here and there because once you admit it, what elese you can do...

Nunclea's picture

You can do a hell of a lot to


You can do a hell of a lot to improve your looks! Some of which are mentioned in the article.

Try this simple experiment. Buy an expensive top, have a haircut and wear it to the next "dress-down" day at work.

Watch female heads turn all over the office.

Anonymous's picture

Great to have another author,


Great to have another author, but the article was poor, didn't enlighten or provide anything that hasn't in the past.

Anonymous's picture

hm


the truth is, the site kicked ass when Chase used to be more around.
All articles and comments were great, insightful and intelligent.
This is what usually happens to all business, one person creates something that fires off because THIS PERSON is so cut out for it and then they always pass it on to others and ... well the others are good. But not THAT good.
cheers!

Chaz's picture

mainstreamish


I agree with you. The article was poor.
This article was like a list of dos and don'ts but not much of hows. Sort of something you could read out of Mens Health or other mainstream media.
So how do you know when a girl is interested in you to approach her? What are the signs? Yeah I'm sure you know them but if you're a beginner how do you spot those signs? Instead of a list, how about giving us an idea of what would you do and how would you do it and how and why have you succeeded and how and why have you failed?

Alek Rolstad's picture

Hey there. I am sorry you


Hey there. I am sorry you didn't find the article useful. I agree with you that there is not much new in this article, but that was the point of the article - to cover basics.

Believe it or not, most men out there who are learning the art of seduction actually struggle with the basics, so in the end of the day posts about basics will appear on girlschase. Girlschase is website that provides articles and products to beginners, intermediates and advanced players. By this you have the luxury to find posts that fits you, but also expect to find posts that might not. The good news is that we are currently 6 posters (and Chase is planning to add even more contributors), which means that in theory we pop up a new article everyday. By this, you will most likely find articles that fits your needs multiple times a week. But again expect finding some posts for total beginners as well here on girlschase.

Honestly, my tip to you and everyone is to constantly practice the basics. I don't know about you, but I have been into this whole game for a few years now and I will admit that I have gotten great results so far. However, I still read and practice basic stuff, because all types of "advanced" game lies upon it. Therefore a repetition of basics is useful, also for more advanced players.

But again, if you are into more innovative posts, I will make sure I write one in the next days (and should be out in less than 2 weeks- as I have a new article pending that is covering basics that will come out first).

Remember that you can always send an email to Chase or write a comment with suggestions to future posts. We appreciate that a lot because sometimes we lack of ideas and help from the readers is much appreciated. This way you contribute to making this website better while increasing the chances of getting articles you enjoy reading - Everybody benefits from it.

-Alek

Nick's picture

Good Points!


Alex,
True, this article is clearly meant for basics and most readers for this site are most likely beginners,most people who search for the kind of information on a website like this are most likely beginners, but the problem is that Chase has already put out many articles for beginners and has also put out a book and video series for beginners, and this has added nothing new to what Chase has already added.

I am sure the writer of this article had the best intentions but this kind of article is spam, this article literally added nothing new to the discussion for beginners, in helping beginners understand new ways of thinking to help mental roadblocks, in being a more efficient learner of seduction ,, no new insights, nothing!

Everything single thing in this article is a point of topic already discussed on this website. I could of took my eleven year old brother, made him read the site for 2 days straight and then my brother could of typed up an article exactly like this. You know why? Because everything single thing in this article is regurgitated info from this site. Shit, I mean if Chase needs some new writers I know some guys from high school looking for part-time jobs right now, all they would need is the ability to read, memorize, and type in their own words.

This site has been running for like 3 years with articles usually coming out every week. There is only so much info on a topic like seduction and when you got one of the most thorough, detailed writers like Chase posting an article a week throughout most of its life cycle you bet your knickers that there will be little left. but this has to stop, I can't even use the advanced search button without combing through spam articles before finding the one I am looking for, and that one is usually the topic written by Chase or Ricardus, because they are usually the most detailed, best written, with flavorful dialogue, anecdotes, or humor and both had distinct styles of writing. They offer things that my brother, the neighbor next to me, or most can't offer just by simply reading this site.

I just don't understand why this is being allowed. Does the site make a lot of money from new articles even if they are spam, so this will continue ? If so, that is a shame, because there is a decline in this site happening steadily , and all this spam just provides an inconvenience to find the good articles by Chase and Ricardus. Also, if Chase is not making money from these new spammy articles then he is being ripped off big time in my opinion.

I might be harsh, but that is because I care deeply for a site that has help change me in so many positive ways! I will continue paying monthly for this site but if this keeps up where the only new things are posted by Chase and that is like 8 or 9 articles a month (which is under the limit so why am I paying?) I will retract my subscription, all the money I have spent so far I can say has been a great investment but now..... eh.

Jayjay

lucifer's picture

article proliferation - and repetition


Yeah, that's an "issue" I was also mentioning in the forum actually.

It's nothing bad about the new writers, it's just that there's only this much you can say and minting a new article every other day will eventually just end up repeating itself... And being a bit of a waste of time for readers.. And maybe not really too good for the website content-wise.

Nick's picture

Yea, sucks but I might be


Yea, sucks but I might be able to understand this new writers position, he was probably a friend and was asked to write an article for girlschase, and like a friend he did but unfortunately it turned boring and bland because everything in this article has already been explained and to tell you the truth this guys writing style is the same of like 4 other writers on this site that are not Chase, probably not his fault, a lot of the stuff that works with women is the same, there are not completely different styles to approach and attract women, and this guy probably hasn't written tons and spents a lot of thought like Chase has on seduction so he could build a website that makes thousands of dollars like Chase unfortunately he will be compared to a guy like Chase but how could we not, we want this site to improve not turn to crap. Hopefully, this article is just growing pains for this new author, who knows!

Hopefully he is getting the message loud and clear.

Alek Rolstad's picture

I am currently staying with


I am currently staying with him in Romania. We discussed it this morning. He will make sure to write something more practical and more advanced for the next time! I will also give him some personal assistance. Not that I have as much experience as chase in writing but my articles seems to be rather popular for those who reads them so maybe that can help.

I know quite a few of the writers here. I know ricardus, chase, Drexel, Halvor, Cody lyans. I have been out with chase and cody. I live next to Halvor. One thing I can guarrantee you all is that we have all been into this as long as Chase. However there are no secrets that Chase has more experience in writing blogposts - but you can be safe reading every other articles as the content is legit stuff from guys who have been into this for quite a while.

I also hope you guys will keep giving us constructive feedback. You are at least all more than welcome to do so on my articles and I am sure most other writers appreciates it as well. We all care about this site and we all do our best to satisfie the needs to ALL our readrs no matter their skill level.

But both Halvor and I will write some advanced material these next days (so after editing and formating, it should be out in 10 days). You get what you ask for. Please feel free to give suggestions on what you would like to read about. That's very appreciated.

-Alek

Andrei21's picture

Romania


I am also in Romania atm and would love to grab a beer with you guys. If you're staying for another week or two, let me know and it would be great if we could make this happen. Hope to hear from you soon.
Cheers

Alek Rolstad's picture

I leave sunday for Beograd,


I leave sunday for Beograd, but we are planning to go to club Kontroll tonight. I have brown hair with blonde stripes.

XxX XxX again's picture

Man, yea but hey remember


Man, yea but hey remember when that one writer wrote an article and then Chase looked at that article and was"fuck this shit article" , and then wrote a better article, think it was about Madonna's and whores, and then that writer never came back, so Chase knows whats up. No worries :)

Chase Amante's picture

New Writer


Fellas-

That's my fault - it's a little disorienting for new guys just hopping on, and it's been a while since we brought anyone new on; with past writers (Peter, Alek, Drexel) I had them kick off with a series that was stuff we absolutely haven't covered on here before to help them get into the swing of things. I just kind of threw Halvor into the deep end of the piranha pool here and said "Swim!"

He's a dude who's been around a while and has plenty of fresh insights - I'll hash out an article series to start him off with or something along those lines so we can get him rolling.

I've just updated our operation manual for writers with this and other points that should make the bringing in of future writers smoother and avoid issues of articles that seem too basic or cover too much familiar ground in the future. So hopefully newer guys will have easier entrances (and their entrances will be smoother for the readership, too).

Chase

SolidSnake's picture

sleeping with multiple women


A little off topic...but is it even normal to want to sleep with inordinate amounts of women? I know it's normal for a male to want multiple partners, but when does this urge for novelty become unhealthy? I'm not trying to judge...just asking if it could have to do with something negative like low self esteem, or sex addiction.

Franco's picture

Depends on the reasoning


SolidSnake,

It CAN be negative, but most of the time it's just biological (men want sex from multiple women to spread their genes). Lots of guys want to sleep with new women for the novelty factor as well, but I think it's more the mindset of the guy and the handling of the woman that determines whether it is healthy or unhealthy.

If the mindset of the guy is, "I hate how women treated me in the past, so I'm going to fuck them and then kick them out the door and make them feel like a used piece of trash," then yes, this is an unhealthy mindset and way of approaching sleeping with women.

If the mindset is instead, "I love women and everything about them, and I would love to sleep with more women to provide them with positive, memorable experiences that they will never forget," then there is absolutely nothing unhealthy about it.

It really depends which angle you are approaching it from. If your angle includes the well-being of the women you're sleeping with while still providing you with the novelty that you crave, then there is nothing wrong with indulging in that desire (and probably leaving a trail of envious men behind you).

- Franco

Anonymous's picture

moving topics to Sex


Great article man, but I was wondering if you could shed some light on transiting the conversation to being sexual. Also in bars is it better to deep dive or just keep the conversation light and sexual? Thanks for the great work, keep it up!

David Riley's picture

Article Links


Hey Anon,

Take a look at these keys articles about sexual framing and turning girls on with your words and actions.

Sex Talk for Mood and Tone
Sexual Frame - Turning Girls On
Sexual Frame to Get Girls
Picking Girls Up in Bars

Take care,

Just Dave

Alek Rolstad's picture

New writers


Again, the fault does not lie fully on the writer. He wrote up an article based on his instincts. He was not aware of what has been covered on this website.

Next time, he will get more guidance and write fresh stuff for our community of readers.

This won't happen again. All new future writers will get guidance as Chase just wrote.

Remember, we are always open for suggestions. Fact is a number of my own posts are based on questions I get from the readers.

-Alek

Chase Amante's picture

Never Say Never ;)


Well, never say never, Alek! Anything can happen again, and onboarding a new writer isn't the easiest thing in the world to do (and I doubt we've perfected it yet)... :)

(One of the things I learned in retail a long time ago... as soon as you start making promises like, "It won't happen again, trust me!" whatever the thing was you're saying will never happen again is automatically fated by the universe to immediately happen again just to make you squirm, and everyone's way more agitated now than if you just said, "Let's try and not have that happen again, but if it does don't kill me, we're working on it!")

Chase

African boyo's picture

good article


As much as everyones bashing this article i think its beautiful in its simplicity this ties together alot of articles in a short concise and easily digestible manner and highlighting the fact that you need fundamentals first and game second.

Nunclea's picture

I thought it was a great


I thought it was a great article I really did!

Well written, well structured, clear and practical. Just the thing to save up and re-read they day before a big night out.

Anonymous's picture

It's always easy for someone


It's always easy for someone else to judge and criticize than to do the actual work. I understand the importance of saying something in different ways to increase comprehension. People learn differently. Some are verbal. Others are visual. You can read the same passage many times and never understand it but instantly comprehend its meaning it written in a slightly different context with slightly different wording. For me, the author was in part possibly trying to do this. Because of this, I actually found the article enjoyable and informative.

It's hard to make everybody happy, especially when only a small subset makes all the noise. The rest, for all you know, found it useful. Keep up the good work guys!

Crypto currency trader's picture

Longtime reader


Damn, I really liked this article. Was fresh to see a topographical writing style especially reading it just before I went out on the weekend (pulled one of my hottest and smoothest lays from a club yet. D-floor to bedroom in 15 mins - and I'm no regular club gamer!). I can only say this article help loosened me up for sure.

Alain's picture

Good article


Hey,

Just read the article and don't understand the fuss. It is actually good stuff. Yes, most of it is covered elsewhere, but having an article that summarizes things in one place is always refreshing.

Plus, I like to read how a different guy explains the same things. He will use different words, different ways and there is always something new to learn. In the same vein, that's why I have enjoyed reading Alek, Colt and other new writers.

Great first article Halvor, I hope we will read more of you!

BTW this website is great, it has been an eye opener for me.

Keep up the good work guys!

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