Commenting on “What to Do When a Girl Won’t Go Home with You”, Blogster asks about what women’s responsibilities are in the mating game and where a man must “draw the line” when it comes to trying to make a girl his:
“Do take your point on this one. However, at what point does all the game advice for men cross into the territory of a woman’s jurisdiction?
With each piece of advice about how to handle situations and tighten your game, it sees more and more of the woman’s responsibility being transferred over to men.
One of the admirable traits of men generally is that we are self-motivated and proactive and take charge. We look for our own mistakes and correct. However I feel the manosphere and valuable dating advice sources such as girlschase makes the mistake of swinging too far with the attitude of ‘if it didn’t go well, you the man did something wrong, or should of done something better’. Accountability is good, assuming complete agency is ridiculous and unrealistic, as it assumes the man has the capacity to control all relevant circumstances affecting a pickup and that by improving and fine tuning technique results will come.
The implications for this are obvious – women are just automatons and have no individual preference, attraction will occur reasonably successfully if you master the right techniques smoothly and ultimately, that women have no agency as adults.
It also plays into and reinforces current societies frame regarding relationships – that the man must do all the work and its the man’s fault if something goes wrong or the seduction doesn’t occur.
Increasingly also I see double standards in advice being doled out. For example, a recent post spoke about how to deal with judgement. It says its crucial not to judge women, yet women are by far the more judgemental sex and constantly do so on a broader range of factors.
A man is expected to skilfully disarm a woman’s judgements, but a woman is not expected too because otherwise she ‘won’t open up’. Does it occur to you that maybe men don’t open up because of female judgement and thus lose out? Yet the onus seems always on the man. Put it this way, if your friend was constantly dodging responsibility and being unnecessarily judgemental would you pander to him?
A man is expected to overcome his approach anxiety by himself. Is there any advice anywhere that says about how women should ‘help the man through his approach anxiety’? Of course not, yet there is plenty of expectation that a man should smooth and ease the women in the last moments before seduction.
In this instance, I feel it pushes the ‘responsibility balance’ of game even further towards the man. Soon all the woman will have to do is show up!”
This comment no doubt reflects a lot of men’s frustrations over the travails of mating – I’ve heard them the world over, in any number of different cultures, and if you read back through history you can read of men from all ages complaining of the same things.
So what are women’s
responsibilities in dating and mating? Do they serve as just passive
men’s advances? And if at first you don’t succeed – how many times
should you really try and try
The first distinction that absolutely must be made is that there are situations where women will make it easy for you, and there are situations where women will make it hard for you.
The article Blogster made the above comment on was primarily focused on avoiding hard situations, plus some last-ditch efforts for effecting a turnaround when you happen to find yourself in one.
Not every girl you invite home is going to be like that. In fact, most of them won’t be.
That article was a, “Here’s how you avoid having your car totaled in a car accident, and here’s how to make it out alive even if you do,” piece. If you read it, and apply it, you’re better prepared and the odds are more tipped in your favor; however, if you don’t, you still may never run into the situation, or if you do it isn’t necessarily going to spell your doom, either.
But just like a car accident situation, some questions can come out of that: how much accountability do I REALLY need to have? What about the other drivers? If they’re not paying ANY attention at ALL, well, that’s not really a world I want to live in.
Are Other People Uncaring Robots?
Of course not!
other driver on the street probably
doesn’t want to crash into you either. He doesn’t want to kill you; he
doesn’t want to kill himself;
and he doesn’t want the hiked up insurance premium and points on his
driver’s license he’ll receive if he makes it out of such an accident
Likewise, the women you meet and who go out and go on dates with you don’t want to be dateless or sexless or mateless for life. They absolutely want to find great men, date them, sleep with them, and have romances with them.
However... and here’s the problem that men run into: she may not want those things that badly with YOU.
The burden of convincing the other person rests with the one who wants it more.
If I want you to lend a thousand dollars to me, and you don’t really have much desire to spend the next three months hounding me to pay you back, I’m probably going to have to work considerably harder to convince you to loan me a thousand bucks than you are going to have to work to convince me to accept that thousand dollar loan from you.
Likewise, once I HAVE your thousand dollars loaned to me, you will have to work a good bit harder to convince me to pay you back, while I almost certainly won’t work nearly as hard to convince you to take back that money I owe you.
That’s an extreme example, but that’s how the mating game shakes out too.
If you are incredibly, dangerously, undeniably sexy to women, AND you have utterly ruled yourself out as a boyfriend candidate, a great many women will chase after YOU. You won’t have to convince many of them to sleep with you... in fact, you will often find yourself deciding between date prospects, and turning down the less desirable ones or ones you simply don’t have time for.
That’s because women will want and need pure sex from you more than you want it or need it from any individual one of them.
Yet, for the average man, things are different... because the average man doesn’t present such a scintillating image to women. He isn’t offering her something that she doesn’t feel she can’t get elsewhere. He’s offering her something she CAN get elsewhere... often with even more perks and benefits.
And the less convinced a woman is that she needs sex from you more than you need it from her, the harder a time you’re going to have getting her to intimacy.
But Shouldn’t She...?
If I was teaching women, I would teach them to be kind to men’s emotions, to not lead men on, to not let dates progress too far if they just aren’t feeling it, to have hard rules and cut things off earlier rather than later, and so on and so forth. Men are hopeful; and women often accidentally give men the wrong idea. Some of them do it intentionally because they’re inveterate validation addicts... but even most of those learn after not too long that an overly-obsessed man who’s been given the wrong idea is more trouble to keep around than he’s worth.
However, I am not teaching women here. I’m teaching men. And I don’t think most women want to listen to a cad like me anyway.
Therefore, I will spend no time lecturing women on how to behave to best spare men’s emotions. The fact is, many of the women you meet WILL work to spare your emotions when you’re starting out and new (as you get progressively more experienced, you increasingly become the authority figure, and the burden of sparing women’s emotions becomes yours, rather than them hoisting the burden of sparing your emotions any longer).
There are some women who are either oblivious or uncaring... but these are in the minority.
And here’s the thing: you are under no obligation to do ANYTHING with any other person.
Nobody’s forcing you to try harder to get a girl home if she says “no” a couple of times. If you want to say, “Screw it, I’ll just go home and have a beer,” you can do that and no one’s going to judge you; it’s your life.
Just the same though, no one else is under any obligation to do you any favors, either.
So, when you come up with a rule for yourself like, “I will do X much with women, and women must do Y remainder amount if we are to sleep together,” then that is fine... just so long as you realize that you will miss out on lovers you might otherwise have had had you been willing to cross more onto their side of the bridge, so to speak, and help them across it.
The problem I see, though, is that a lot of guys don’t want to cross over to the other side of the bridge and help a girl over... and then they get ticked that the girl won’t man up and cross it herself.
And herein lies the struggle.
Let’s say you meet a cute young girl. She likes you, but she’s inexperienced, and she’s a little worried about what her friends might think about her dating an older guy like you.
You’ve taken her on a few dates, and she clearly likes you, and you clearly like her, and now it’s time to seal the deal.
Only, you invite her home, and she won’t go with you.
You invite again; again, you hear “no.”
Whose responsibility is it to get the two of you together?
No Fate But What You Make
The most common scenario here is that the man accepts the woman’s refusal at face value, and then each party goes their own separate ways.
The woman is frustrated and annoyed because she liked the man, and wanted him to make it happen, but he couldn’t.
The man is also frustrated and annoyed, because he liked the woman, and he knew she wanted him to make it happen, but she wouldn’t let him.
What’s fascinating to me is that here we have two people, both of whom wanted something with one another, both of whom failed to get it, and now both of whom are irked at one another for not making or letting that happen.
So whose responsibility was it to get these two together, anyway?
Was it her responsibility to stop saying “no”?
Was it his responsibility to persist a little harder and overcome her resistance?
Was it your or my responsibility for... I don’t know, whatever?
The fact is, it was the responsibility of the party who ultimately wanted it more.
Chances are, the girl liked the guy... but within a few days, she’s fielding date requests from other cute guys, who are her age and more socially acceptable to her circle of friends.
Meantime, the guy liked the girl... and now he’s brooding for the next couple of months over that real young cutie he liked that it just didn’t work out with and he doesn’t understand why.
The man can get annoyed at the woman here and say it’s her fault, she dropped the ball... but did she?
She replaced him a lot more quickly.
Because the loss was greater for him than it was for her, the responsibility here was his.
Contrast that with an in-demand man who’s himself fielding a lot of date requests from a variety of women. He takes a woman out, and tries to go home with her, but she resists. He persists a few times; she continues to resist.
So, he drops it.
Then, he goes out and sleeps with a few more girls instead.
Meanwhile, the first girl is sitting near her phone, wondering when he’s going to call, and stewing more and more that she hasn’t heard from him.
In this case, whose responsibility was it HERE?
Whoever wanted it more.
That might be the girl. Or, it might still be the man, if what the girl wanted was a relationship, and the man just wanted to sleep with her. If she felt like she wasn’t going to get what she wanted with him, then the man’s still the one who was the bigger loser here, even though he has more choice – if he’s focused on putting more notches on his bedpost for fun or experience, for instance, he’d have been better off having slept with her than not having slept with her.
Meantime, the girl didn’t stand much chance of ever getting what she really wanted, so she might pout about not being able to get that, but she still made the right call as far as preserving her sexual market value and being able to present herself to other long-term candidates as someone with a lower partner count is concerned.
Wait – So It’s ALWAYS the Man’s Responsibility?
When it comes to the mating game – usually, yes.
Don’t believe it?
Okay, here’s an experiment: go to a decent-sized apartment building with a female friend of yours. Doesn’t matter if she’s attractive or not, though it’ll help if she isn’t packing too many extra pounds or in possession of a troll-face.
Now, each of you are going to take turns walking through the entire building, knocking every apartment door, and propositioning any member of the opposite sex who opens the door.
If a man opens the door, your female friend steps up and says she feels a little silly, but would he like to have sex with her?
If a woman opens the door, then you step up and say the same thing.
At the end of the day, compare notes: how many people did each of you sleep with?
Next, how many attractive people that you really wanted to sleep with did you sleep with?
I guarantee you she’s going to have loads more names on her chart than you will. There are also going to be at least a few checkmarks next to the names of guys she found pretty sexy and enjoyed going to bed with.
Your checklist, by comparison, will have few names on it, and likely won’t have any you were really all that into. The little old lady on 5 who showed you that new trick you didn’t even know you could do not withstanding.
And don’t forget – while you may have decided you want to sleep with a girl the moment you laid eyes on her, she’s still judging you and deciding if you are REALLY a man she wants to sleep with right up until the moment you enter her (and even after, sometimes), and looking for any sign that it’s all an act and you’re not really a man who gets women in bed. So, you failing to persist when she wants it but resists – yep, that’s one of those things that will dry her up like a salt mine in the Sahara.
That’s why it’s the man’s responsibility, nearly always. Because when it comes to sex, women are in a buyer’s market: the sexual marketplace is just SO awash with supply from men – even attractive men – who are willing to drop everything and give a woman sex at a moment’s notice that simply having a pair of cock and balls on offer is not enough.
You must create an experience.
Creating the Experience = Crossing the Bridge
Of course, you don’t have to create an experience OR cross a bridge.
I, for one, spent over a decade playing things purely passively and waiting for women to come to me. And in fact, had I known how to take action at the right times, or just been able to say “yes” instead of “no” when girls asked me out, I would’ve had some pretty awesome, pretty, and popular girlfriends. But I didn’t... and that was a very lonely time for me.
Once I began teaching myself seduction, I got better at taking action, but certainly didn’t ever push myself too much to close things out at the end. Stuff like what was in the article about what to do when girls don’t want to go home with you I didn’t do until years after I’d been picking up... if girls resisted a little bit, I gave up and moved on.
And even now, sometimes I will pull out my A-game on breaking through resistance, and can see that a girl is just about to come home with me and we’re going to have a pretty amazing night if she does, but maybe it’s the end of an exhausting night or she’s just been a wall of stone, and I run out of energy before she does and just throw her a half-hearted parting shot and bail before closing things out. It happens.
But much of the time, if you succeed at creating the right experience with a girl (and you won’t always... sometimes the situation doesn’t permit, or you aren’t on top of your game, or other forces are at play), you will not have to do anything crazy to close things out.
Creating the right experience means either offering to give her sex in a way she values, or trading her for it by coming in as a provider of a great experience, and establishing that a great experience is what she seeks too.
Even if you do a great job, some women will have reservations pop up, or they’ll change their minds, or outside forces will intervene. At that point, you can either fight to keep what you’ve got, or you can give up and go look for something else or go home. I’ve done both.
But, should you ever find yourself feeling pouty and saying, “Well, THAT part of things is a WOMAN’s responsibility!”, that’s probably just victim mentality.
And here’s how you tell the difference:
If you can push responsibilities off onto other people and still get what you want, then yes – it IS their responsibility.
For instance, my view is that, in a relationship, saying, “I love you,” or working to progress the relationship to the next level, or asking for marriage, or anything along those lines – that’s the woman’s responsibility.
How do I know this? Because if I don’t do them, they still get done anyway.
Of course, if I really, desperately, CRAZILY wanted one of those
things, and the girl just wasn’t doing them... guess whose
responsibility that’d become then?
Likewise, I know that when it comes to sex... sorting the logistics... physical escalation... just making it happen... well, that’s MY responsibility – because if I don’t do it, it just doesn’t get done.
And because I want it to get done, I can either accept not having the things I want in my life, and grouse about it, and point fingers at other people for not giving me those things I want...
Or, I can stand up out of my chair and go get them.
Whenever you’re wondering what is your responsibility, and what isn’t, ask yourself this simple question:
“If I don’t do it, will it get done anyway?”
If the answer is “yes”, then congratulations – it’s not your responsibility.
If the answer is “no” though, then ask yourself this next question:
“Well – is it important to me that it DOES get done?”
If the answer here is “yes”, then what you’ve just discovered is that you want it done, but no one else is going to do it for you – thus, you’ve just discovered a responsibility of yours.
And now it’s time to get crackin’ on making it happen.