In the comments section under the post on "Get Girls in Bed," a reader writes in asking about dance floor game:
Been reading your blog for the past couple of months now, and I think there's less than 10 articles to go until I have read everything on your website.
Awesome stuff to say the least, I feel like I've hit a goldmine after reading your pieces.
From your writings I can see you are not the biggest fan of seducing women in clubs since it's loud and not conducive to many aspects of seduction. However, I keep seeing guys who do pretty well in clubs. Can you write a piece on gaming in clubs? Particularly what to do on the dance floor when conversation isn't really an option?
In fact, as I commented in my response to A, I do like nightclubs for meeting women - I've hands down spent more time honing my abilities with women in them and have met more women at bars and nightclubs than anywhere else - but I find them to be some of the most difficult places to do well with women for most guys, the environments in them are the most stacked against a man you'll see, and they're among the worst places to look for girlfriend-quality women you can go to... so I tend to recommend against them for guys when giving advice.
But, for straight training purposes, for coating your skin with a layer of steel and developing rock-solid frame control, and for quick pick ups once you've got your vibe and your process down right, clubs are hard to beat.
A's question is one of the first one's that come to mind when you start thinking about nightclubs though, and it's one we haven't discussed in any detail on this site yet: what do you do about dance floor game?
Meeting Women on the Dance Floor
When I was twenty-two years old and a junior in college, I was by that time cold-approaching women regularly when I was out and about. I didn't know anything about a "pick up community" or that there were other people out there approaching doing well with women from a skill-building perspective; I just knew that I was terrible with women, I wanted to do better with them, and the only way I was going to meet them was if I started, well, meeting them and practicing my conversations with them and figuring out what to do with them to lead things toward us sleeping together and dating with some degree of reliability.
And one of the first places I ended up was on the dance floor.
Let me go back a little further.
When I was eighteen years old, back in 2001, I went to a nightclub for the first time. I'd tried social circle for getting girls; I tried meeting women at work; I'd tried meeting women at school. All these efforts were cut short by my lack of social skills - I didn't know how to have a conversation with someone. And then it hit me; the dance floor!
I'm an okay-enough looking guy, I thought, and I've got pretty decent rhythm. The dance floor's too loud for words; all you need to do is:
- Go there
- Look good
- Dance decent
- Get women to sleep with you
... right? That was how it worked for other guys!
I was pretty sure this was a fool-proof plan.
The club was pretty scary the first time I went in there. It was loud, hot, and there were lots and lots of people in there crammed up against one another. I managed to dance with a few girls, including one very pretty girl, who seemed to like me... but after the first song, she turned her back and ignored me. I was confused; I was heartbroken.
I didn't set foot in a nightclub again for 3 1/2 more years.
Flashforward back to me at twenty-two.
I again became convinced that dance floor game was my best shot at getting girls. As I'd found out at frat parties, pretty girls liked to dance with me... sometimes. And the pattern repeated itself at clubs.
It was slow going, and there were times I'd get lots of girls to dance with me, and times I wouldn't get any. I started working on grinding with girls; some girls seemed to like this, some seemed repelled by it. I soon figured out that it wasn't working all that well as a seduction strategy, but I was able to use it to improve my rhythm (I can more or less move like Ricky Martin these days thanks to that... women find it surprisingly alluring, I suppose for what it hints I can do to them in the bedroom).
I noticed that the guys who seemed to be doing well would be talking to the girls on the dance floor. I tried this, but they couldn't hear me. I learned to speak louder.
Then I saw guys leading girls off the dance floor. I tried this too, but it didn't work.
Then one night, I ended up in knock-down, drag-out bar fight and ended up in court. I stayed away from nightclubs for about six months, and by the time I went back, I'd developed my verbal abilities to the point that I didn't spend any time worrying much about dance floor game anymore.
The Problem with Dancing
A few months after returning to nightclubs - at age twenty-three - I'd been having a bad night, with nothing going my way, until I ran into a girl I'd spoken with earlier in a nightclub, who stared at me with the most sultry look I'd ever seen. I dragged her out on the dance floor, through her up against me, and made out with her. Then I dragged her off the dance floor and told her we were going home. She resisted; she wanted to go to the bathroom. I didn't see her again.
I repeated this multiple times over the next few months; taking girls on the dance floor, kissing them, sticking my hands up into their bras and down their panties. They liked it. Except, when I'd try to get them out of there and take them home, they'd always say "Yes" at first, then suddenly peel off (or get peeled off by their friends) and disappear.
I told the latest such exploit to a mentor of mine that summer; I'd met a girl, dragged her on the dance floor, and made out with her and had my hand up her shirt and down her pants within seven minutes of first laying eyes on her.
"You know better than that!" he scolded me.
He was right. I realized I'd been messing myself up - I was telling them, clearly through my actions, "We are going to have sex if we get alone together," then breaking the mood to lead them somewhere alone together - and they'd break it off, knowing what was going to happen.
Not long after this conversation, I met another girl I wanted to drag onto the dance floor - and didn't. Instead, we just talked. No dancing, no kissing, no me sticking my hands down her pants in the middle of the club.
She became the first girl I met and slept with the same night.
Why did that girl go home with me, while the ones it seemed like it was going so great with in the club didn't?
It comes down to the difference between reactions and results.
Here's what physical escalation (kissing, body rubbing, hands up her bra / down her pants) does normally:
- It primes a girl for sex
- It tells her unequivocally that you want sex with her
- It switches off her logical mind and switches on her primal one
... and those are good things, right?
Well, normally... yes.
But now consider what happens if you put a girl in that condition... and then you break it. When you:
- Change the environment
- Change what's happening
- Change the flow of emotions
When that happens, what happens to the girl? The spell's broken, that's what. You get her ready for sex on the dance floor... and then don't give her sex on the dance floor, because you can't, you're in public. So you try to lead her somewhere else. She comes out of it, and her logical mind kicks back in. And what it says is this:
- "Wait a minute, hold up. Are you thinking about sex? You haven't thought this through. What do we know about this guy? I'm not sure if he's the right guy for this. What are your friends going to think? They're standing right over there... they probably saw this. If you go home with him they're going to know EXACTLY what just happened. Oh crap, I can't do this..."
- "Is this guy trying to get sex from you? Ohhhh, brother... he's just another horny man in pursuit of sex. I can't believe you were just doing that with him... what were you thinking? He's just like every other man. Good thing you realized it, now you can get out of here."
Instantly, her mind's throwing up barriers to sex, and she now sees you as the one chasing her, trying to get something from her. She places herself on a pedestal, and you in pursuit.
This is where most guys mess up in dance floor game. They do everything except sex on the dance floor... and then they try to take girls home, and get those girls running away, or at the very best they get themselves an amount of resistance they have to struggle mightily to overcome (and usually will fail to do). And most of the girls these guys get I notice tend to be older or less attractive - they're the ones whose logical minds tend to say, "Okay, I guess we can have sex," in the moment like this. The pretty girls, who value themselves (and their sex) more highly, cut things off hard as soon as they realize sex is imminent and the spell is broken.
There is an easier way.
Dance Floor Game: To Do, or Not to Do?
Ultimately, I discovered there are two ways to do dance floor game right:
- Don't do it, or
- Do it fast and get girls off the dance floor
Does dancing on the dance floor with a girl satisfy those requirements?
First we want to ask ourselves how much effort is involved, relative to other avenues for getting girls? The answer: a lot, compared to our other options.
Next we want to ask ourselves what the results are, relative to other avenues. The answer, if you look at actual results (e.g., guys actually physically sleeping with girls, as opposed to, say, making out with them on the dance floor or copping a feel, like I was doing, but not being able to get the girl in bed) is pretty depressing most of the time.
What happens is, dance floor game usually falls onto the "reactions" side of the "reactions or results?" question. That is, it looks like a lot is happening... because the girl is reacting to the guy with energy and enthusiasm. But girls get energetic and enthusiastic about lots of things... they just don't sleep with most of them, is all.
Back when I was still pretty green, I once asked a guy who I knew was very talented with women if he ever went on the dance floor.
"Nah," he told me, "I like to let the other guys out there do all the work warming the girls up for me. Every girl comes off the dance floor sooner or later. And that's when they meet me."
This became my standard approach, too. And in truth, there's nothing more amusing than watching some sweaty, frustrated guy look on in shock as you walk out of there after a few minutes of talking with the girl he was busting his ass all night on the dance floor to get. (and I feel okay smiling about it because I already paid my dues as the sweaty, frustrated guy, once upon a time)
Let's say you still want to do dance floor game, though. Because you really, truly love to dance... or because you're a fast-moving, aggressive-enough guy you think you can pull it off. It's still possible; I've seen both models, and I've played around with the latter a few times. Here's how they work:
The Talented Dancer
By "talented dancer," I don't mean a guy who's good at shaking his rump. I mean a guy who's been practicing for, most likely, a few years, and tears it up on the salsa / merengue / bachata scene. If you fall into this category, you can definitely use this skill to get girls.
Rules of the game:
- Dance with her the way you know how. This is how you show off your skill, and that's what she'll be most into. Don't toss out your salsa skills and try grinding - do what you know.
- Do not escalate in public. Even if she looks like she's turning into putty in your hands... in-public is not the place to start kissing or touching her heavily. Keep her wondering if you're going to satisfy her desires... don't start getting physical with her until you've got her alone somewhere the two of you can get together.
- Don't dance too long. If she's having fun, and you are too, the temptation might be to keep dancing for a long time. Don't do this; she's either going to get bored of dancing for so long and leave; her friends will pull her away (life intervenes); she'll grow frustrated because she wanted you to lead her to sex but you kept dancing, and she'll go look for other prospects elsewhere; or she'll have so much fun as you give her too many good feelings that she'll end up slotting you into "want him as a boyfriend" territory and she'll slow game you (which usually ends up meaning nothing ever happens).
- Get her off the dance floor within a few songs. Then build a little rapport with her... then take her home.
I'm not a dancer of any great talent, so I can't vouch for this approach personally, but I've had a number of skilled dancers assure me that when they put their moves on for women, it's like taking candy from babies.
The Aggressive Dancer
If you feel comfortable getting physically aggressive with women quickly - or you'd like to train yourself to - this is a good way to go about pulling.
Rules of the game:
- Openers: you can use something silly for this, like grinding your butt into her crotch, or walking up to her tossing your head back and forth, either one laughing hard as you look at her and grab her. Or, if you get her between songs when she isn't dancing, you can do mock-seductive, and stare at her teasingly and extend a hand demanding hers.
- Logistics: know exactly what yours are before you start, if at all possible. You're going to be escalating on the dance floor, which means you've got to be able to get her somewhere sex can happen before the mood is broken. A bathroom is ideal, but many places have bouncers or attendants guarding the bathrooms to prevent the sort of thing that happens in unguarded bathrooms (and the sort of thing we want to have happen). Know where you'll take her after you escalate before you escalate.
- Escalate aggressively: you're screening for girls who are into you and will respond to you and go along with what you want, and you're doing this to move the interaction forward. Some women aren't going to like this; they're the ones who are just there to dance, and not meet a sexy man. Keep moving on to other girls; it's okay to move from girl-to-girl like this. I've had times doing this where I've had six or seven different girls reject me in a row on the dance floor, and girl #8 is crazy receptive to me, despite having in all probability seen those rejections. Doesn't that fly in the face of "social proof"? Actually, because she knows you don't care (which is sexy and powerful in its own right), and because she's looking for sex and so are you, it turns out that you are exactly what the doctor ordered (to cure those... urges... she's been having).
- Get her off the dance floor fast - but not to talk. You want her coming to the bathroom with you, or to that dark corner. Basically, you need to make something happen - and not just kissing her or feeling her body - before the spell you created on the dance floor is broken. That means you've got precious minutes to lead her to somewhere the two of you can get together - and the clock is ticking. This is why it's so important to have logistics scouted beforehand, and to know where you'll be taking a girl. Operating out of familiar territory helps a lot in this regard; most guys I know who do this kind of game regularly frequent the same clubs and take women to the same part of the club again and again.
This is one I've done on occasion. I usually only use this type of game if I'm really in the mood to do it, or if I'm in a place that there are literally no women off the dance floor to talk to but lots of them on the dance floor to dance with.
You'll notice that the emphasis of this post is on getting to physical intimacy. That's because my experience tells me that:
- You probably don't want a girl as a girlfriend if you're meeting her in a nightclub (or at least, you shouldn't want that; if you do, you probably haven't had enough experience dating girls from nightclubs, or you haven't had enough experience dating girls who don't go to nightclubs and realized that they're a decidedly saner / less dramatic lot)
- If what you want is dates / phone numbers, you'll get a much higher response rate to the numbers you get if you meet the girl off the dance floor... not on it
But essentially, your options are:
- Skip the dance floor; let other guys sweat it out and work their butts off while you wait around to collect the girls who come off to unwind from the craziness
- Show off your talent if you're a skilled dancer, then get the girl off the dance floor fast and get to know her
- Move fast and escalate aggressively if you want a fast, nonverbal pick up, and get the girl off the dance floor within a few minutes and to a bathroom, cubby hole, or secluded corner somewhere and get to it
The other option, of course, is be the generic-dancing-guy-grinding-with-a-girl-and-sweating-it-out-until-she-walks-away-or-turns-her-back-on-him dude, but trust me... you don't want to be that guy. He's the guy who always thinks he's almost there with a woman... and then can't figure out how "his" girl ended up going home with somebody else.
Be that "somebody else" instead. Let the generic dancing dudes keep doing their generic dance thing, and getting girls ripe for the picking - your picking, that is.