Resistance to Sex: The 4 Different Flavors


Yesterday's article about when you should have sex mentioned part of a female reader's comment on the article "I Don’t Chase 'Em, I Replace 'Em." The comment, though, was actually a fair bit longer than that, and touched on another subject too:

While I agree that the 'replace' mentality is efficient for picking up large quantities of women in a short time, I think it limits the quality of the women. I can categorically say, that there is a strong correlation between a woman's desirability status and the extent to which she will require a man to chase or demonstrate interest/value.

Our commenter here has a very valid point - however, the nuance to that point is what interests us most.

resistance to sex

Because, as you will see, how resistant to sex a woman is depends upon:

  • The quality and quantity of her choice with men, and
  • How this man in particular stacks up against her other options

... and that even among resistances, there are very different kinds of resistance to sex, and these are based far more on the woman's level of sexual experience with men, and her level of experience with a man who makes her feel the way this particular man does.

(if you're looking for an article on how to overcome this resistance, we've already got a great post up on it here - "How to Get a Girl in Bed: 10 Crucial Tips for Making Her Yours" - this piece is really about identifying the different kinds of resistance, understanding what each sort says about the girl you're getting it from, and understanding what you need to do and who you need to be not to get it)

Let's dive in.


resistance to sex

In the "How to Get a Girl in Bed" article, we explored in a good amount of detail the emotional reservations women often have prior to sleeping with a man for the first time. It's often a big decision, and there's a lot that's unknown and uncertain going in.

However, the very best answer to the question of, "Why did she resist sex with me?" is this: somewhere along the line, you made a mistake.

Because at least one of the following is true whenever a woman resists intimacy:

  • She doesn't feel completely comfortable and at ease with you
  • She doesn't feel turned on enough by or enough sexual tension with you
  • She hasn't ruled you out completely as a boyfriend candidate
  • She isn't 100% confidence there will be no consequences after (e.g. social, etc.)
  • You mismanaged her emotional cresting and failed to transition properly
  • Your physical escalation is clumsy and unresponsive to her signals
  • She has some other reservation unrelated to you (an injury, on her period, etc.)

Erase all of those - be a compellingly sexy man who puts her totally at ease and removes any concern of her friends ever finding out, while not being in the running for being a boyfriend at all, managing emotions and transitions perfectly, and escalating perfectly - and she doesn't have anything weird going on in her life - and resistance never appears.

For the sake of this article though, we'll assume you're still working on tweaking your process with women and your sexy vibe down, and you run into resistance every now and again with women you're at the point of physical escalation to sex with.

What does that resistance mean?

Well, there are three "meta-categories" of resistance, primarily:

  1. Flat-out refusal. That's from a girl who's 100% certain she does not want to sleep with you and is not interested. You'll rarely run into this one, simply because women who are 100% not interested in sleeping with you typically don't go home alone with men, or invite those men to come back to their homes alone, either. However, if you make a BIG mistake somewhere between transitioning and getting somewhere alone with her though, a woman may change her mind from uncertain about sex to certain she doesn't want it with you, and you'll see this then. Thus, when you see outright refusal, it's usually a sign that somewhere very recently you made a BIG mistake. You will usually not be able to turn this around - so thank her for a wonderful evening, head home, reflect on what you did wrong, and do it better with the next girl.

  2. Partial resistance. This is where she'll permit you to escalate to a certain point - running your hands up and down her body, say, or taking her shirt off - but not let you get past that point - e.g., her bra comes off easy but she shuts you down every time you go for her pants. This kind of resistance is the resistance you get from a girl who's on the fence about you - she thinks she might want to, but isn't completely sure. This is the kind we'll be talking about in this post.

  3. Token resistance. This is resistance that isn't genuine at all, but is more "for the sake of appearances." This resistance is very easily overcome, and usually only works out to a few sentences uttered like, "We shouldn't be doing this," or, "Can't we just go to sleep?" and perhaps a few half-hearted removals of your hands while escalating, but after a few minutes the resistance is history and escalation proceeds without a hitch. Token resistance taken at face value can lead to some pretty disappointed and angry women (i.e., a girl gives some token resistance simply to not appear too easy, assuming the man will persist, but he immediately gives up, assuming she's refusing him, and she ends up not getting laid despite that being what she wanted with him and thought he would give her).

Again, if you're getting flat-out refusal, you've messed up horribly along the lines and it isn't happening... just walk away and don't waste your time.

And if you're getting token resistance or no resistance at all, congratulations - you're running one tight ship, seduction-wise (or you're so out of her league that she's too afraid of refusing you and losing her only shot at going to bed with you, or she's a very sexually liberated woman who's simply very comfortable with sex).

What we'll be talking about in this article is the partial resistance to sex you see - the resistance where a girl is willing to let things proceed to some level, because she does like you, but she struggles with you to prevent it going further than that... until later.


Quantity and Quality

Just as men can have different levels of abundance mentality - ranging from:

  • Women are impossible to get, and incredibly rare, precious resources, to

  • Women of average quality are easy to sleep with, but high quality girlfriends are incredibly rare, precious resources, to

  • Women of the highest quality are easy to get, and women are abundant resources

... that greatly effect their behavior with women (the guy for whom women are completely scarce moves very slowly with women, tolerates any kind of behavior from women because he is too afraid of losing women if he doesn't tolerate it, white knights hard, and gets upset at men treating women any way other than how he thinks men should treat women, because women are such precious resources that must be taken care of; while the guy for whom women are abundant resources moves very quickly with women, immediately moves on from women who don't behave in ways conducive to them becoming lovers and having a nice, rewarding, peaceful relationship, finds the idea of white knighting amusing and mystifying, and is bemused by men upset at how he treats women, since women clearly enjoy him and value him so much that they chase after him and become frustrated when they can't get him)...

... so too can women have different levels of abundance mentality, depending on the primary environment (the culture and city she lives in) and the secondary environment (the subculture and venue / situation / scenario she's in).

resistance to sex

I've lived in cities where there are lots of attractive men with reasonably good game and noticeably more single men than single women. It's very hard to game in these cities! They're fantastic training grounds, but you don't start seeing reliable, consistent success with girls there until you transform yourself into the absolute crème de la crème - the most smolderingly sexy, engrossingly captivating, undeniably charming man those women have even met. Even then, they still slow things down, put the brakes on, and make it harder for you, simply because they can - they have tons of choice and plenty of options.

Conversely, I've lived in cities where most of the male population was not sexy, not captivating, and not charming at all, most of the men didn't even approach women, and the single young women outnumbered the single young men by a good amount. In those cities, even the guys with clumsy game clean up.

The New York Times has a fantastic piece that looks at what it's like in some of these topsy-turvy upside-down worlds where single women vastly outnumber single men - interesting read if you have a moment:

The New Math on Campus: On College Campuses, a Shortage of Men

Here's an excerpt:

“If a guy is not getting what he wants, he can quickly and abruptly go to the next one, because there are so many of us,” said Katie Deray, a senior at the University of Georgia, who said that it is common to see six provocatively clad women hovering around one or two guys at a party or a bar.

Since that is not her style, Ms. Deray said, she has still not had a long-term relationship in college. As a fashion merchandising major, she said, she can only hope the odds improve when she graduates and moves to New York.

At colleges in big cities, women do have more options. “By my sophomore year, I just had the feeling that there is nobody in this school that I could date,” said Ashley Crisostomo, a senior at Fordham University in New York, which is 55 percent female. She has tended to date older professionals in the city.

This is a primary environment problem: the fewer the men are, the more in control they are. Likewise, when it's women who are fewer, the women have more power. (for the record, if you're considering what school you'd like to go to and have things the easiest, Texas Woman's University in Denton, Texas is 90.3% female, and the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York City has an 82.5% female enrollment ratio - you can see more here: Highest Female-to-Male Ratio: Large Colleges and Universities; New York City itself has about 200,000+ more single women than single men)

But secondary environments have their own effects on things. For instance, I used to live in Arlington, Virginia, just outside of Washington, D.C., which, at the time I lived there in 2006, was approximately 60% female (it's slightly more male than female these days). Yet, if you went to the biggest nightclub in Arlington then - a place called the Clarendon Ballroom - you'd typically find the patronage there about 75% male, and the women present would act far more aloof than they would if you met them during the day or at a different bar (although, still not impossible to pick up!). If you went to one of the salsa-dancing lessons at the salsa bar (forget the name) on the other hand, where it was perhaps 75% female sometimes, you'd find the women were very friendly.

All this factors into a woman's resistance to sex - whether it's last minute resistance before the sex act in your apartment, or resistance to coming back to your home because she knows what that means... and she'd rather make things take longer. And as we discussed in yesterday's article, it's usually better for women to delay sex (and for men to make it happen as quickly as possible).

When environmental factors (abundant men) are in women's favor, women have higher resistance to sex; when they are not in women's favor (scarce men), women have lower resistance to sex.

You'll usually find the best places to meet women are places that have more women than men, where the men are not very aggressive in pursuing women.


The 4 Kinds of Resistance to Sex

You're out on your first date with a girl, and it's gone great. You invite her back to your place, and she agrees - she comes with you. But when the two of you get back, after a few minutes of letting her get comfortable, and you begin to escalate things with her, working off the knowledge that first-date sex is actually your best shot at getting together with this girl at all, period... she resists.

A lot of men make blanket assumptions that a woman who resists sex is harder to get, and thus higher quality - they assume that if she resists sex with them, she resists sex with everyone, and if she goes to be easily with them, she goes to be easily with everyone.

This is never true, but for different reasons, depending on your skill level with women.

  • If you are unskilled with women, women who resist sex with you do so because you're not particularly sexually exciting or skilled at getting past that resistance - however, they may not be so resistant with more enticing, able men

  • If you are skilled with women, women who go to bed with you quickly often do so because you present such a rare opportunity for them (mate-choice-wise) and because you are so good at disarming their resistance - you frequently end up taking to bed women quickly who've never gone to bed quickly with another man, and may never do so again

Thus, while it's fairly common for men everywhere from beginner to advanced to assume that speed-to-bed is some kind of reliable metric of "quality," it's not.

It's simply a metric of how more or less experienced with sex and sexy suitors than you she is.

Further, you can identify her level of sexual experience roughly by gauging the kind of resistance to sex she presents for you. If you recall our diagram from "How Many Partners Has Your Girlfriend Had? Find Out Here," there are four categories of sex experience we broke women down into (and yes, it goes both ways - the same categories apply to men, too) - here's the diagram again:

how many partners

(and before anyone gets upset and climbs up on a soapbox to announce that sexual histories don't matter, this study found that a woman's infidelity risk increases by 7% with every sexual partner she has. I'm sure there's a similar correlation between partner counts and infidelity risks for men too, but I haven't seen the research)

Each of these types of women responds differently to sexual advances she wants to resist. Those resistances look like this:

  1. Nervousness / uncertainty / trembling: this is a girl who's sexually inexperienced. She's only gone to bed with 1 or 2 partners before - or perhaps even none - and even if she really likes you, sex itself scares her.

  2. Discomfort / stiffness / weirdness: you'll see this with women who know sex and know what it means, but they're starting to be more familiar with men and know that sex is a loaded gun - they aren't as terrified by sex as the less experienced girls, but they have a reasonable understanding that when and how sex happens can mean very different things for their potential relationship.

  3. Annoyance / irritation / frustration: this one's a funny one, and it's a sign of an angry / cynical girl. She's familiar with sex, she knows the deal, she's sexually experienced, but now she has a specific place she wants you in her life - as a guy who wines her and dines her for four dates before he makes a move, say, or as a strictly platonic friend - and she's annoyed that you aren't following the "program."

  4. Calmness / control / smoothness: you'll only see this with very sexually experienced women - women who are somewhere around 20 lovers plus. They've made their peace with the fact that men are the aggressors and will push for sex - someone's got to do it - and that not all men want the same things with them that they want with those men (she may want him as a friend, he may want her as a lover). Because they're comfortable with sex, and they know the drill, they're able to shut most men's advances down calmly, coolly, and adroitly, in such a natural way that the man doesn't even realize he's being shut down, and maybe even feels good about it.

However, there's a catch: as you go up in experience and certainty, the level of experience and certainty required for women to give you these kinds of resistances goes up too.

That is to say, if you're very experienced with women, and very certain in your abundance mentality, a girl who may resist most men's advances with frustration and annoyance because they don't "get it" and because those men are easily replaced (e.g., she's the dominant one, deciding what roles each of them takes, and is irked they aren't responding as they should) may revert to stiffness and weirdness with you because she doesn't know how to respond and doesn't feel in control - she realizes she may actually lose you if she doesn't go to bed with you, and she isn't sure if she can accept losing you (whereas with other, less experienced men, who don't come across as quite so amazing, she gets none of these feelings).

So, these reactions are not a completely foolproof metric of partner count, although they are pretty good; but, they are a near-flawless metric of how experienced a woman is compared to you and how certain she is that she can replace you.

You'll get:

  • Nervousness if she's far less experienced / less certain than you are
  • Discomfort if she's somewhat less experienced / less certain than you are
  • Annoyance if she's somewhat more experienced / more certain than you are
  • Calmness if she's far more experienced / more certain than you are

So how do we use this, and what does it tell us about a woman who's giving us one of these different kinds of resistances?


resistance to sex

You can tell a lot about a woman by the kind of resistance she gives you.

Namely, you can get:

  • A good read on her level of absolute sexual experience / number of partners
  • A great read on her level of sexual experience relative to your own
  • A great read on her level of confidence that she can easily replace you

We'll go into a bit more detail on each of the different flavors of resistance, and what each one means.


The Nervous Girl: Sexually Inexperienced

The girl who's legitimately nervous - you invite her home or move to kiss her or touch her body, and she gives you some of the following signs:

  • She glances nervously to the side, breaking eye contact

  • She hesitates before speaking, unsure what to say to you

  • She shows uncertainty about what to do through her words and voice tone

  • Her resistance comes in defiant, very girly "no"s - clutching her clothes close and shaking her head, or tensing her body up as if preparing for an attack

Women react this way only when they're very sexually inexperienced - they have low (or zero) partner counts. When a girl gives very nervous resistance to sex, it's almost always a universal sign that she's highly inexperienced.

Just about the only time you'll see it with girls who aren't in the 0 to 2 partner count range is when she views you as massively out of her league and would like you as a boyfriend and normally makes boyfriends wait but knows that if she turns you down for sex she probably doesn't get that - in other words, you've reached a point where her standard practice is to shut the guy down, but she realizes she probably loses you forever if she does that with you. However, that one's rare - you'll only see it if you're dating down in a big way, OR you're rich / famous / a rock star, OR you're reasonably advanced in your fundamentals and pretty smooth with women and you're in a foreign country and dealing with women who normally never meet or date attractive foreigners (e.g., you're a really sexy, smooth Greek man meeting ordinary English girls in England who aren't used to meeting men of your caliber, let alone foreign men of your caliber; or, you're a really sexy, smooth English man meeting ordinary Greek girls in Greece who aren't used to meeting men of your caliber, let alone foreign men of your caliber). There, you may see moderately experienced women behaving like inexperienced women.

Usually though, you'll only meet very inexperienced women behaving this way. If sex is scary for her, sex is new for her.

With this type of resistance, your best bet is gradual but consistent escalation, and dealing with the girl very gently and nice. Plenty of pauses in the escalation; plenty of stopping and staring into her eyes. Make sure that you're not directly on top of her at any point until she's completely committed to the escalation; you want to make sure she feels like she has plenty of space if she needs to make a quick getaway. Remember, sex is new and scary; if you make her feel trapped, she'll freak out and leave. She needs to be able to relax a bit as you escalate with her.

Word of advice: be very responsible with women this nervous about sex. When girls are this nervous, they're communicating to you that they're placing an immense amount of importance on intimacy with you - which means if you're only doing a one-night stand, that should be very clearly (but gently) communicated, and you may want to consider not doing it at all. Girls this inexperienced have a lot of preconceptions about sexy, charming, mysterious men, and if all you want is a quick roll in the hay you may end up doing quite a bit of damage to them. Have a think about whether you want to affect someone else that way, and if you want that on your conscience before you do.


The Uncomfortable Girl: "This Might Be Too Soon..."

The girl whose resistance to sex spans the range of awkward and uncomfortable - but not annoyed - reactions will give you the following signs:

  • She looks at you like you're a creepy guy for escalating with her

  • She crosses her arms and gets stiff body language, but it's more "awkward stiff" than "nervous stiff" (like what inexperienced girls give you... "nervous stiff" is actually kind of cute, but "awkward stiff" isn't really)

  • She shows hesitation about what to do - she thinks the two of you should probably do one thing, but she isn't 100% on that

  • She blurts out her real and honest reasons for wanting to delay things: "But if we do it too soon, you won't want to see me anymore..." "But if we do it too soon, you'll think I'm too easy..."

The uncomfortable girl is communicating through her actions to you that she isn't ready to rule out sex completely, but she thinks it's probably better if it doesn't happen now.

To any talented seducer - who trains himself to do things with certainty - this isn't terribly difficult to overcome; when someone else thinks the two of you probably shouldn't do something, but you think the two of you absolutely SHOULD do the opposite thing, you're going to win out. The higher level of certainty nearly always prevails - that's the power of frame control.

When you see girls getting uncomfortable in the face of sex, it usually means they're moderately experienced - 3 to 7 sex partners, about - though that can be higher if you're a very attractive / out-of-their-league guy. Normally though, this behavior denotes a woman who has learned from experience that sex happening too quickly usually doesn't get her what she wants, but she's not certain that's the case and that she ought to say "no."

The cute thing about girls who are uncomfortable is that they'll very often honestly and logically state out their reasons for resisting sex: "But you won't like me if we have sex too soon!" - which makes it easy for you to work through those issues with her. Like so - with you speaking in a tone that's part sexy voice, part fatherly figure:

Girl: But if we have sex too fast, you'll think I'm easy!

You: Are you kidding? The last two girlfriends I had we slept together on the first date. If we sleep together fast, the only thing I'm going to think is that you are an incredibly intelligent woman who found me so sexy she obviously could not resist.

Girl: But it's too soon...!

You: Too soon for what? Ordinary guys who think that women who play hard to get are higher quality? I'll tell you a secret... the girls who are the very best at playing hard to get are actually the girls who've already been gotten by enough men that they've learned how to play hard to get.

In this way, you can actually paint being "hard to get" as a signature of very sexually experienced women - which, as a matter of fact, is often true!

Interestingly enough though, most men AND women don't realize this.

It's one of the hidden secrets of the world of seduction. The more adept she is at resisting, quite often, the more experienced with men she is.


The Annoyed Girl: You're Not Following Her Plan

resistance to sexThe girl who shows irritation, frustration, and annoyance in response to you trying to escalate things - whether that's to move her somewhere sitting down with you, to take her home with you, or to kiss her or get physical with her while you are alone - tends to present the following signs:

  • She stares at you, peeved and irritated

  • She sighs before speaking, or rolls her eyes

  • She shows annoyance via her voice and actions, as if dealing with a child

  • Her resistance comes in irked, mother-like, "No, Steeeve... we are not having sex," tones, as though her patience is running out

The annoyed girl doesn't get why you don't get it. You're supposed to wait until the third date before you do this... or, you're supposed to wait your turn in the kindly-and-supportive platonic male friend zone role until / unless she needs you to be more than that. Weren't you paying attention when they assigned you your role?

Girls who give you annoyed / irritated resistance to sex are usually in the roughly 7 to 19 partners range, and they view sex (and men) somewhat cynically. They're upset to learn that men and women don't want exactly the same things, and they're annoyed that men don't want what they want them to want. Occasionally - very rarely, but occasionally - you'll encounter extremely inexperienced girls (usually virgins) who act this way because they're know-it-alls who THINK they know everything about sex without having any actual experience. This is pretty rare, but you'll run into it every now and then in very religious areas that are very anti-sex-before-marriage. These girls can give you, "Gosh, doesn't he KNOW it doesn't go this way? Sex isn't until after marriage - hello!" reactions even though they're in totally unfamiliar situations for them simply because they've spent so much time absorbing others' viewpoints about it that it feels old hat, even though it's not. Once this girl is physically intimate with a man though, her attitude often swings in the opposite extreme (i.e., resistance disappears more or less completely and she gets a little sex-crazed - I've met girls like this who switched from staunchly, vehemently anti-sex to having partner counts of 25+ within a year or two of having sex for the first time).

An annoyed girl's resistance is an irritated response to her lack of control... she wanted and expected things to go a certain way, but along comes this guy who won't get with the program - or maybe even never got a copy of the program in the first place. But she knows the deal - why doesn't he?

(The deal of course being that she only hooks up fast with a certain sort of man under certain conditions, and because this man is not that man and these conditions are not those conditions, he needs to take things slow and become her boyfriend and/or not make a move and just be friends until she wants him to be something more)

This kind of resistance is a sign that a girl considers herself "above" you in some way (possibly, you made some mistakes throughout the interaction that caused herself to compare herself against you and decide that she's more experienced with dating / sex; but sometimes she's simply narcissistic and views herself as being above everybody); either way, I suggest taking this as a red flag, laughing it off, and leaving, never to return, call, or text. A girl in one of the other three categories is a much better bet for your mental and emotional well-being than the girl who gets teed you won't toe her party line.


The Calm Girl: She's Seen It All Before

The calm girl is the one who's totally cool, relaxed, and collected in the face of even your most passionate, effective escalation attempts - and looks just like this:

  • She makes calm, cool, confident eye contact with you

  • She speaks casually, with sometimes a hint of laughter about her voice

  • She shows clarity, certainty, and measured control when she speaks

  • Her resistance comes in deft, almost imperceptible deflections of all your advances, an expert waltz that results in you confused at how she's so perfectly shut you down without being clumsy, awkward, or rude

The calm girl isn't out to make you feel bad or look bad. In fact, she may even want to sleep with you - but on her terms, not yours. She's used to getting what she wants with men - in fact, she nearly always gets it.

She knows you like her, and she knows you want her, and the way she sees it, she's got you wrapped around her little finger. Which is no insult to you - that's the way all men are with her.

The calm girl is typically a sexually experienced woman who's been with somewhere north of 20 sexual partners. Sometimes it's more - sometimes a woman doesn't get completely at ease until closer to 25 or 30 partners. But somewhere in the low double-digits, she's seen everything that most men will ever throw at her, and makes her peace with it. This is men; men are horny, men want sex, and men try to get sex the way they try to get sex. She learns the countermeasures to stay in control and on-top of things; and she learns how to dodge their advances without causing a stir.

The best way to respond to the girl who calmly and adroitly deflects your advances is to be calm in turn. Be nonplussed that she's spurned your escalations; she'll be at least a little intrigue that you haven't freaked out, like many of the men she meets, or stepped up your efforts to try even harder, like most of the rest of the men she meets.

You usually won't sleep with a girl who's able to calmly and expertly shut you down on the first date, unless it's what she wants - if she's that able to close down your advances, she's running game on an entirely different - and higher - level than you are yet. But, you can learn from her, and if you're equally calm-but-persistent, and you continue to exude your sexy vibe, and you keep setting things up so that the two of you can get together, she may just let it happen at some point in the not-so-distant future.

When, that is, she decides it should happen.


What Resistance Styles Say About Her... and You

If you're not a seduction superstar yet, you can take the resistance styles / partner counts metric at roughly face value (unless you're in a band and she's a fan, or you're on travel in a country where you get sexy points, or she's a know-it-all who thinks she's more experienced than she is).

You can usually take resistance styles / experience as a good bet, although, again, sometimes you'll make a mistake and appear less experienced to a woman than you are, or you'll do things more perfectly than you usually do and appear more experienced to a woman than you are, or she has a superiority complex or an inferiority complex and sees her as better or lesser than most other people, in which case you'll get a different reception than you would by following the metric straight.

And you can always take resistance styles as signs of how replaceable (or not) a woman sees you as being. Women won't be hard with men they're scared to lose... and they won't be soft and womanly with men they're not afraid to.

The only thing resistance to sex DOESN'T tell you, just about, simply by its mere presence, is that a woman is a woman of "quality"... despite what most men and women seem to think. Whatever your definition of "quality" may be, resistance (successful or otherwise) usually doesn't determine it.

However, if you stop and look at the type of resistance you're getting - well now, you've just learned a whole lot more about her - and about how she sees you - than she realized she was letting on.

Ciao,
Chase

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Comments

Jason's picture

RE: What to do in this situation


Hi Chase!

I want to thank you for all your help, its really improved my game substantially. A lot of times when I meet girls, I try to propose a time to meet right then and there. However, there are times when the girl is legitimately busy and can't find a time to meet right off the bat. For example, I ask her sat, sunday, etc? In these cases, she usually says she needs to see her calendar. Then, I usually will offer to get her number to coordinate later and then I usually shoot a quick text telling her "save my number, etc". After this, what would be the best response and time to send a response so that I can follow up with her without losing too much value myself? Thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Texting for Dates

Author

Jason–

Great to hear you’re making some strides.

It’s been my experience that it’s better to ask a girl for her schedule over text after you get her phone number. Tell her you’d like to grab food or drinks with her while in person and get the number, but don’t go into details and coordinating. Mainly that’s for two reasons:

  • Not pressuring her to know her schedule on the spot, when she may not know it yet

  • Not creating an emotional disconnect – often the mood she’s in when she gives you her number and the mood she’s in while thinking about or talking to you later are very different – you want to set up the date with the version of herself who’s handling her planning and coordinating later, rather than her bar / club / street / café self.

When you ask girls to pick a time then and there, if they feel pressured the gut reaction is usually just to push the decision off and tell you they’re busy. But once they’ve already turned you down once, that becomes the thing they remember every time you talk to them about going out again. They think, “Jason? … oh, right, that guy who asked me out but I told was I was busy.” Then it’s either, “Okay, maybe I’ll give him a shot,” or, “Nah, I already decided on that one.” Much better to get a “yes” in person, let that sink in, and then handle all the details later when she’s clear-thinking and not feeling remotely pressured by your presence.

This article goes pretty into detail about setting up dates with girls specifically that way over text:

How to Text Girls: 20 More Tips and Techniques

Chase

Zac's picture

Just a tiny winy bit of more persistence


Hi Chase,

the response to my comment, in the article "How to tell a story....", where you mention the guys who are most successful are ones that change overtime.

(But the people who have the most successful lives - whatever your metric for success - usually are the ones who tweak and change and evolve themselves the most as time progresses. They tend to look quite different from one age to the next in some important ways.)

I know change and being dominant is good, but in all honesty, there's some people who just won't accept the 'new' you. Kind of like similar when you look at a guy dominant and a women becoming subordinate and she feels the instability over time. This is all relative reasoning though, nothing concrete.

(may revert to stiffness and weirdness with you because she doesn't know how to respond and doesn't feel in control - she realizes she may actually lose you if she doesn't go to bed with you, and she isn't sure if she can accept losing you (whereas with other, less experienced men, who don't come across as quite so amazing, she gets none of these feelings.)

You nail this one. But what's the difference between a women shutting you down and another whom really feels that she can't play her game? i have seen the latter. Women who are experienced usually doesn't turn down all so often (unless you really bad) if you got good fundamentals. All too often it is just they are not interested, or am i wrong? in my past girls, with those calm girl, i feel persistence plays a key. i mean not the kind of too much persistence.

Zac

Chase Amante's picture

Shut Downs vs. Irritated Girls

Author

Zac–

Yes, for sure, some people can’t accept change. Generally that’s only the people who don’t change themselves, though – you will almost always outgrow these people completely if you’re someone who continually evolves, even if you don’t want to give them up as a friend for whatever reason.

As far as shutting you down vs. a girl annoyed she can’t get what she wants, a shut down happens when a girl feels like she’s in control and can call the shots and either isn’t interested and wants you to stop pursuing, or is in auto-rejection and is tired of wasting her time and emotions on you (because she thinks you won’t come through for her) – effectively, she’s a girl who decides you do not have anything she wants. She’ll usually be very firm, or sometimes even mean or cold.

A girl who’s annoyed about not getting what she wants from you hasn’t written you off entirely; there’s still SOMETHING she wants from you, be that friendship or be it a relationship or be it anything else. However, she feels like she “has” you and she’ll push you off in an irritated way – it isn’t a full-stop shut down, it’s more like a, “Gah, doesn’t he GET it? He’s supposed to do [some other thing]!”

You’re right, a woman who’s experienced won’t turn you down because she won’t get into situations where she needs to turn men down – she senses those situations a mile away and deftly avoids them. She only proceeds with a man when she wants things to proceed with a man. And on persistence – yeah. Calm, deliberate, knowing persistence shows an experienced woman that you are an experienced man more than anything else – experienced women tend to be a lot more attuned to this than inexperienced women are and a lot better able to appreciate it. You might say that an experienced woman is a connoisseur of men, in a way.

Chase

Zac's picture

Ball Busting!


Yea, they know their ways around, how to utilize the nice guys and not overuse him, while also putting guys at arm's length with those she do not have interest.

Btw, I saw your response to "The Tool" Meeting her friends, the topic on ball busting. I remember I hate that when i just getting started to be social, and learning to be good with women. I still do, mainly because of the negative tail it brings with a few people the girls mix up with, at times. It would be great to see a topic on ball busting. Ball busting can be sticky if not handle well, especially with strong headed/independent and even charismatic people, and some of them don't even recover you back if they bring you too down, that's a sign of her not really having good friends maybe? An article will help.

Just maybe i can remove that tail between my legs. It get stuck sometimes.

Zac

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Ball Busting!

Author

Zac-

Sure thing - I've got it marked down on the list. An article on ball-busting it is!

Chase

Beginner's picture

Inexperienced Girls


Hey Chase

I apologize if it's a bit unrelated, but this question's been eating at me.

I'm new to pick up and have been doing a lot of approaches, some dates and a few failed escalations.

I've read your article about determining a girl's number and how it can be determined within 2 partners, but I'd like some more accurate ways to determine a girl's exact number.I want my girlfriend to be a virgin and won't accept one(for ltr) who's had even just one other guy.

I really don't want to break a bunch of inexperienced girls' hearts sorting through them to find a girl who's both a virgin and meets all my other standards.

So how do I do it?

Chase Amante's picture

Virgins

Author

Beginner–

Well, you’ll need to target younger women – even in most of the conservative countries and areas I’ve traveled through, most women have lost their virginity by midway through college. If you’re living or traveling in more remote places, however, you can occasionally find women who’ve retained their virginity longer. Typically, the larger the town, the more attractive male options there are for women, and the sooner virginity is lost.

The main things you want to look for are youth, religiosity, and sexual conservatism – e.g., women who think that sex outside of marriage is bad or wrong, or women who’ve been homeschooled and away from boys their whole lives, or women who simply do not date.

As far as actually checking for virginity, that’s kind of a tough one. I’ve had plenty of friends have girls tell them they were virgins after they slept together the first time that the friends came to seriously doubt after a little background probing. I even had a roommate in college whose standard fare was sleeping with virgins, who would then wait until they were on their periods to have sex with their later (or current) boyfriends, so that they could tell those boyfriends they were still virgins (i.e., that the blood coming out was from their hymens, not their period).

You can check for hymens, but even that isn’t reliable – if a girl runs a lot, or plays sports, this can get stretched or broken, and some girls are born without much or any hymen.

Even among the guys I know for whom virgins are kind of their “thing” (there’s a guy on the discussion boards right now named “girlsfollow” who specializes in virgins), they’re never 100% sure if a girl they’ve slept with was really a virgin… it’s always more like, “Well, I THINK she was telling the truth.”

I’ve had girlfriends who’ve told me that their previous boyfriends thought they were virgins when they weren’t, simply because they came from conservative backgrounds and they didn’t want the guy to know they weren’t virgins when they got together. It’s just one of those things where, if women can tell you’re looking for it, they may be inclined to do their best to try to be it, even if they aren’t really “it” (virgins, that is).

I guess I’d say, stick to very conservative areas, and go for young women (i.e., under 20 is your best bet in most places; even then, you’ll still run into lots of girls who’ve had at least one partner, and sometimes a lot more, by age 20, so you’ll have to be screening), and look for women with very conservative and nervous attitudes toward sex. You’ll probably never be 100% sure, but if you go for those kinds of girls you’re likely to be more sure than you’d otherwise be when you meet a girl who matches the description.

Chase

Montay's picture

Spezzatura


Chase

I've been thinking about how to apply "The Law of Least Effort" latley, because I want to maximise my attractiveness as much as possible.

And although I understand that you need to "appear effortless" I haven't quite nailed down how to get the MOST out of something with the LEAST amount of effort.

So at this point I receive a lot of reward for a lot of effort.

I'd genuinely appreciate an in-depth post/comment; many may benefit from zero-ing in on this particular concept of "Studied Carelessness"

Chase Amante's picture

Effortlessness in Appearance

Author

Montay-

I imagine you've seen these articles:

... and want more technical details on appearing effortless?

Much of the material on the site is actually geared around showing you ways of getting the results you want with women with the least amount of visible effort; e.g., stuff like deep diving for conversations (she does the talking; you mostly lead), things like locking in and moving girls (getting yourself comfortable and getting them following you smoothly), and nonverbal things like using the bored look and the skeptical look to get women explaining themselves or working to regain your interest, and pre-opening to get a woman's attention before you even open your mouth, and essentially create the feeling in her as if she was the one bringing about the opening.

If you have specific areas you're looking for more detail on being effortless in, I might be able to either point you to the right article here, or put one together on it if it's something not covered.

Generally though, most of the stuff on GC's written with the intent of getting you maximal results with minimal effort - I'm a former business process and optimization consultant, after all - I like efficiency ;)

Chase

Montay's picture

Perfect, I love the idea of


Perfect, I love the idea of being efficient and effortless. I'm working on a more edgy vibe/appearance as if now, and I feel that this is a key element in to doing so

I imagine you've done your time with hopping from one extreme to another
Ex: humble to arrogant, friendly to badboy..ect.

And finding a "somewhere in the middle" that fits your profile

It's a long road, but i'm willing to ride it to the end.

I'm not sure how you've come across all this knowledge, and why you don't just keep it to yourself like a fair majority of others would do, but it's incredible, nonetheless. So thank you

Lance's picture

A thought of mine..


Hey Chase and Ricardus, long time reader, kind of haha, but first time poster.

Essentially, I became friends with a guy my freshman year who was the pinnacle of women's dreams. High school James Bond type guy. And, I spent the entire year chasing after this girl. The "nice guy" phase. despite him telling me what I was doing wrong. then I finally landed a girlfriend the beginning of sophomore year, I'm laughing typing this right now actually. very odd thinking of the transition I've made since then.

Well, she cheated on me and I went into the "dick" phase. Trying to emulate my Bond like friend. Which, sadly, snagged me quite the reputation among a few girl groups. I found this site sometime along the summer before my junior year, and it helped me understand the balance concept. I only read a few pages that I was curious about, and they really helped with a few concepts. So I took that information and have spent junior year and almost all of my senior year implementing principles, as well as exploring different aspects that affect how a girl reacts to different situations. Going so far as to think of something id like to further understand and talk to a girl for the sole purpose of this.

I actually haven't been on here since that time, I actually was sitting in a class after a break up with a girl I had decided to let myself build an emotional connection to. Didn't change much with my tactics, i had just decided I wanted to keep her around for some time. Well, she had some serious psychological issues I had not been told about which led to her ending things with me to keep from losing me in the long run. So naturally I was kind of affected by this. Anyway, sitting in class I was watching this impressive looking girl easily be unaffected by a man who obviously has spent months chasing her around, later found out it was years. But it has only been a few days since then and I haven't gotten to asking her for her number because I just haven't felt like doing it. Either way, I've come up with two questions that I haven't been able to quite find an answer for on here.

1. This girl, I've found out, is VERY clingy and easily attached, which raises the question:

What do you do with a clingy girl? I'm talking, head over heals, always wants to be with you. Do you leave her as is and enjoy what she is offering while letting her understand the concept of "I need time for my friends", or do I manipulate the balance of security and try to make her less clingy? I ask this for two reasons, I'm used to keeping things edgy with girls. That way I know what's going on at all times and am in control. and my bestfriend, fell into the clingy head over heals girlfriend hole, and they have been together for a LONG time, which is something I am interested in experiencing. That's always been the difference between us. He is the faithful, loving, Long term boyfriend. and I am the guy who will go somewhere alone, but leave with a girl. So I'm always intrigued by how their relationship works.

2. I've always known how texting and being a conversationalist works, but I stare at the messages my friend sends his girlfriend with disbelief. Infatuation crawling all over them. He could accomplish nothing without her. I'm wondering, WHY is it that he can continuously talk to her like that, and flower her with security, and her never get bored and lose interest? is she a breed of women that I have just never come across? I'd like to know how it is one picks that kind of women out, and accomplishes the task of getting her into that, mutual permenant infatuation.

As you can tell, recent event with my ex have changed my thoughts temporarily but I have come to one conclusion. I am VERY excited to be out in the "wild" again, haha, but I am looking for an honest, serious relationship. something that lasts longer than three months. Almost 3 years, since that moment that girl cheated on me of going from girl to girl I've come to the point where I would like just one for once.

Thanks man, and I will definitely be keeping up with your blog from now on, offers some incredibly interesting views on some great concepts.

Lance

Chase Amante's picture

Clinginess and Young Love

Author

Lance–

Neat to hear the transition you’ve made. It helps tons having a solid role model to follow in real life – they were crucially important to my development too. Sounds like you had a good one early on.

Clingy girls will give you drama to no end for the first 3 to 6 months if you resist spending too much time with them. They’re drawing on pools of deep emotion, and want what they want – and what they want is usually you… lots and lots of you. They get necessarily upset if they can’t have it; it actually becomes a need

On your friend – the younger and more inexperienced and more idealistic the girl is, the less real “game” you need. If you’re the first guy she’s ever been with, you can often get away with doing a whole lot of things that would be big mistakes with more experienced women, who become more emotionally guarded and skeptical and who have higher standards of masculinity for their mates. If she’s still in the 0 to 2 lovers “sweet” phase though, romantic talk is often music to her ears (although, there are girls who even when inexperienced think romance is bosh; that’s mostly just the very rationally- / logically-driven girls though). I’ve had girlfriends for whom I was the first man they’d ever loved, and had them beg me to talk romantically to them and do romantic things, which to me just sounds like kids’ stuff. But, when a girl’s inexperienced, this is the stuff she’s been reading and seeing in books and movies and on TV and it all feels like a dream come true.

Chase

Lance's picture

Getting by the Drama


Your reasoning for the sweet talking made perfect sense. She had only had like two relationships before then and she was his very first. So I can see how the preexposure to movies and cliche interactions between sexes can overtake someone who hasn't been introduced to how things really are.

Also, so seeing how this overinfatuation of clingy women works, I've thought of two questions.

1. Is it better to try and make that clingyness and NEED for the man lower by changing the security level slightly? or would even the slightest security level change make her go erratic?

2. Or.. is it best to stick out the NEED for the man and then.. what happens after that six months? Does it die down on its own? Or does she just suppress it?

Thanks man,
Lance

Chase Amante's picture

Clinginess

Author

Lance–

If you start lowering security levels in an already-established relationship, yes, that’ll make women start getting weird and erratic (because they feel like the earth is shifting and crumbling beneath them). The best thing you can do about clinginess is be very nonchalant about it when you get it, stay calm, and shrug it off. She starts acting lovey-dovey and you say, “You’ll chill out in a couple of months; this is all still new for you. But it’s very cool that you care about me so much, babe.”

Time winds passions down, so even if you do nothing, eventually her passion will begin to fade. Passion is a response to novelty and uncertainty, and the longer she knows you, the less novel you’ll be, and the longer you remain together, the more certain she becomes that you aren’t going to leave (unless you create an inherently unstable relationship where she’s never sure if you’ll leave or not – those are the only relationships in which passion remains to a degree – this is also why the stuff you’ll see on this site all says if you want to hold onto a girl long-term and always keep her interest, you can never let her feel like she 100% has you – there must always be some risk of loss around the bend to keep her guessing, and excited).

Chase

Lance's picture

Thanks for the Insight


Thanks man. So in essence, let her wind down, then create a subtle instability to keep her interested. Simple enough.

Thanks again, and I will be purchasing a book soon.

Lance

anonk's picture

How can you find out hidden


How can you find out hidden truths about women like if the smoke?and lets say you find out later how to respond

Chase Amante's picture

Hidden Truths

Author

Anonk-

See this article, on this topic specifically:

Women's Forgotten Past

Chase

Anonymous's picture

HELP!


Hello Chase and others,
I have been following every article on this site since December, and this website has really helped my game. I understand women better. I am more confident thanks to things I read on this website. My number of women I speak now (and my chances of getting laid) have increased as well. With that, I wish to give my thanks to Chase and Co. With that said, the current girl I am attempting to bed with is quite a challenge, and I wanted to know whether I for your knowledge (anyone is free to give advice). Let's call this girl, Project P (I will be stating my problem and observation in bullet proof form form now on; please forgive me for the fragmented thoughts and descriptions)

Cynical/Mad chick, probably hates men. I know she has a few bad relationships and has probably been played by three to four dudes

Brought her back home twice -> failed to bed b/c she said "she doesn't trust me"

1st encounter => sweet, nice, cool => did notice how cynical & bitter she sounded when we talked about sex & relationships => brought her and friends home; gave me made resistance just get her number (probably token resistance since her friends were there)

2nd encounter => she invited m to a bar; party environment; no deep diving or getting to know her happened; freak dancing did occur and little bit of physical escalation occurred (kissed her on the neck and she was feeling my thighs)

3rd encounter => she missed her bus to nyc and went clubbing with me; same thing happened as in 2nd encounter; brought her home; once again, acted mean, cynical and bitter; i ignored it and acted like I didn't hear it; refused to bed, so I got her a cab; she joked that she trusted me more than the cab driver and kissed me on the cheek (aka girl baiting to keep me chasing)

4th encounter => we got dinner; was able to deep drive; got her to laugh; noticed how did a lot of things to break the sexual environment I was trying to created by acting aloof, avoiding eye contact, etc; like always, ended the night by telling me "she had fun"

Now we are trying to set up the fifth encounter but since we are both extremely busy, logistics has been an issue. Therefore, fifth encounter to TBA

Things that I have considered that are creating her resistance:
1) the fact I told her from day 1 that "I am too busy to be in a relationship and it wouldn't fair to my girlfriend to be that I can't provide her the attention she wants, however I am open to experiences"

2) the fact that I am still a college student while she is a working lady

3) She is nearly 2 years older than me

My conclusion: I don't think she has friend zone me (yet), as I kept my invest minimal by barely texting her and showing her I am not afraid of to sexually escalate with her. I do think she is trying to see whether I am boyfriend material as she stated me before that she is tired of sexual experiences that have lead to no relationships and during our dinner she has "boyfriend screened me" by asking me questions like "when are you graduating", "what are your ambitions", etc (I could be wrong; she could be conversing). Although she does not state it, she clearly thinks she is more experienced than me. With that said, I do think she is slightly intrigue by my attempts to plow through her resistance, walls, and etc. So my question is the following, how can I turn this challenge into a lover before I get friend zoned?

Chase Amante's picture

5 Dates In

Author

Anon–

Yes, sounds like you have her number. Whenever you hear, “I’m tired of just hooking up; what I want now is a REAL relationship,” what that translates into is actually, “I DO hook up with guys, but I’m not interested in hooking up with YOU; however, if you’d like to court me for a relationship, I might be open to that.”

The communication is basically that she doesn’t find you particularly sexually exciting – which happens when you’re new (it took me probably 8 or 9 months of really focusing on developing a strong sexual vibe as my #1 game priority before women started telling me I was sexy and responding to me consistently in very warm, sexual ways, and at the time I was shocked it suddenly happened and had no idea what cause the switch, other than that I’d been chipping away at it for the better part of a year). But, she isn’t writing you off entirely.

So – you’re not going to be able to get her by being sexy and making fast sex happen. You’re more or less stuck in the traditional dating game with this girl, unless you want to start taking chances. You can meet new girls and set different expectations, but if you want THIS girl, you’ve mostly got to hope to win the boyfriend competition by being the best boyfriend candidate you can be. That’s wining and dining her, getting her some little gifts, taking her on interesting / fun / exciting, and ultimately romantic, dates, and ending somewhere private and romantic – e.g., the two of you alone under the stars after a romantic hike, etc.

The outside option is finding a way to go around with her a bit and get very physical – LOTS of touch (your leg against hers while sitting, your arm around her, loads of physical contact) and just lots of proximity, and maintain the “I’m not really boyfriend material, but it’s fun hanging out with you” angle you’re going for. This works sometimes when you’re a beginner and don’t have a sexy vibe down yet, but it doesn’t always.

Chase

Boris Bayemi's picture

Thanks


Thanks Chase,
This pretty much confirms what I was thinking. Luckily for me, I usually do speak to more girls. Now about the sexy vibe, this is something I have been working on. I started hitting the gym more, dress better and be more dominant. However, I still get the "boyfriend vibe" comment from girls I speak to.

Ivan M's picture

Talking to women in front of people?


Whats up Chase. I've been following your blog for the past eleven months now and I have really learned a lot since then while reading dozens of your articles. I do have one question thats been buggin me a little though and thats is how to approach women when people are around. When I'm at school, I see guys trying to appraoch girls in a loud way and the girls just brush them off in a get the hell away from me kind of way. So I'm thinking that maybe the girls don't like to be approached in front of everybody maybe one on one. I do better at talking to girls when nobody else is around and haven't really tried talking to them when a lot of people are around. What do you think about these kind of senarios?

Chase Amante's picture

Approaching in Public

Author

Ivan–

The problem with talking to girls in front of people – anywhere public, really, but especially in a hyper-status-focused place like a school hallway – is that the interaction is instantly transformed from being not just “you and her” but “you and her and how that looks to everybody else.” The effect is such that you aren’t even the main consideration; the main consideration is “What’s the effect on her reputation to be seen getting approached by you?”

Basically, if you want to do approaches in public at school, the goal should be to target girls who are of equal or lower social status to you. That way, the calculation in her head goes, “How does this look for me? Oh – it’s good! They’ll see me talking to someone higher status than me.” There’s still the off-chance that the girl is conniving and thinks, “Now, if I REALLY want a status boost, why don’t I let all these people see me blow off this guy they think is higher status than me? Instant boost of my status ABOVE his!” If you’re cool or popular enough though, this only makes her look like a bitch and she loses status for brushing you off.

Aside from approaching girls of equal or lower status, I’d stick to staying out of public view when doing approaches – that way you can stick to keeping it about you and her, instead of you and her and how that affects her reputation.

Chase

mark's picture

top pic in article


is that on the guy or a chick on the left?, lol (whoever it is, they're wearing lipstick)

Chase Amante's picture

Guy

Author

Mark-

It is a guy, yeah. The male modeling industry is home to predominantly homosexual men - many of them are very "manly" men, with big muscles, etc. When I had a profile on Model Mayhem I used to get invitations from guys routinely wanting to "take pictures" of me, and asking if I did nudes. I suspect there's a lot more going on at most of these shoots than just picture taking.

But, even if the guy in the picture isn't gay, a lot of times models still put makeup on to look better in high definition photo shoots. When you're being shot in HD you have to have foundation and a little lipstick on usually to keep your skin from looking pale and washed out.

The photographer there may have been going for something stylistically, as well - a lot of red being used in that shot.

Chase

Wes's picture

Hey Chase, Recently, all the


Hey Chase,
Recently, all the girls that i've been talking to, I've come to find out have boyfriends. Boyfriends that they love very much. so I gave up the chase on them and now I want to replace them...there's a few girls on campus I have in mind. There's this one girl I've been seeing around since last semester who I haven't approached yet.(for lazy reasons) I always and only see her in the on campus computer lounge and she's usually on a computer not too far from me, concentrating on her work. Basically she looks really busy. But we've made eye contact before until she turned her eyes away. i don't think I've been auto-rejected at all yet...but I really starting to wonder how I approach a familiar face that is also a stranger.

I know I should've approached her the first time I saw her but I wasn't as educated back then.
I was thinking of saying: "hi, I see you in here all the time.(compliment her) and you have me wondering if there's more to you that meets the eye than a pretty face.

For some reason I'm afraid of messing this one up because she is one the few girls that are high quality on my campus. Its amazing that she is so intimidating, I don't really see a lot of guys talking to her. She's always alone. (or maybe I'm the only one who finds her attractive)

anyway, I'm rambling...how would you handle this?

Chase Amante's picture

Girl You Keep Seeing

Author

Wes-

I've found that with girls you keep seeing repeatedly (e.g., girls who always work out at the same gym as you, but you never talk to), when you want to talk to them, it's best to do it very casually, as if you're an old friend and the two of you've talked many times.

e.g., "So what's the assignment today?" She says something, and you say, "Oh. That sounds like something you'll really have to power through to finish." And she'll say, "Yeah," and then you'll just let it die.

Then, the next time you see her, you say something else: "Still working on that paper on dorsal fins, or they have you onto ventral fins now?" and she'll say something, and again you'll make a remark and let things fade out, unless she keeps the conversation going with you, of course.

Third or fourth time, you start getting into some real conversation. You can move her by saying, "Here, I want to show you this - come take a look at what my professor has us working on," and then show her something ridiculous. Don't do that until the third or fourth time you're talking though - you want it to feel like you're old friends already, talking very casually. At that point, you can get into a real conversation, and then propose that the two of you grab food or a drink sometime and trade numbers.

Chase

Wes's picture

That's good! Thanks. Also for


That's good! Thanks. Also for the girls that told me that they have boyfriends, should I have kept trying with them or was it a good idea to move on. Also there was another girl i've been talking to and she said she wasn't into black guys but she liked my body type.( shes the girl that I have all kinds of sexual tension with that I talked about in the boards one time) I stopped trying with her. Was this a good idea ? I honestly didn't see the point in trying for someone who wouldn't be interested. Maybe she was shit testing me in some way?

Chase Amante's picture

Barriers

Author

Wes-

She's using a barrier - something we discussed in "Being a Challenge to Women" - it's a way for her to tell you she likes you without putting herself totally out there. e.g., "I'm really attracted to you but XYZ thing means we can't get together." It is, essentially, an invitation to chase her.

In this kind of situation, if you're not certain you know how to get the girl, it's usually best to walk away - you'll just squander a lot of time and energy, and it often goes nowhere. Girls using barriers have high confidence and very tight game; until you reach that level yourself you'll lose a lot of time giving her attention while getting very little in return. She may be interested... but she also may not be, and she's more interested in you chasing her than anything else.

Chase

DavidSalv's picture

Calmness, Older Girl


I have been reading, studding and practicing the issues in these articles almost everyday, and the results are amazing ... :D
Thank you Chase , Ricardus and all the team !!

Now one of the girls that I'm dating is older than me (I'm 24 , she is 30 ) and she has exactly this calm attitude that you have described here. It is like she is always in control and anticipate all my moves. She is always challenging me.
Once she even told me "haha this type of game you are doing may work with other girls, but with me it wont work... ". Other times she says that she wants me or says " I think you should be good in bed " :)
I think this what is called the "Push and Pull", and it is so stimulant and funny to talk to a girl that fights you back that way , I have learned a lot with her.

For example, one strategy that she uses is that when we book some date she always let me know that she has something to do after our date so we can only stay together for like 1 or 2 hours, therefore it is impossible to invite her home.
Like you said I know she wants to sleep with me, but I also know that it will only happen when she wants and where she wants.

I'm trying to keep calm as you recommended but this girl is driving me crazy because I can't move faster. Do you have any recommendation to speed up the process?

One last thought, even though she is a very sociable person and a very sexual women, she told me , without me asking, that she have had only 6 lovers (2 serious relationships + 4 "one night stand" ) . I know that almost women lie about this number, but it is very far for from the 20 that you said.

And I will finish saying that Chase is one of the most talented writers on the internet. How can I learn to write and communicate the way you do ? Any idea to start?

David Salv.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Calmness, Older Girl

Author

David-

When you're going up against a girl who's a lot more experienced than you are, you generally won't be able to take back control, though you can try. You can try only being available for something where she comes to your place, for instance - e.g., you're tired / super busy, but if she'd like to come over you'll cook a great dinner with her, and you politely decline anything else. But by this point she's kind of got your number, and is likely to call your bluff and turn these invitations down. She knows she can do things on her terms with you, and won't go for you trying to change the dynamic this late into knowing one another. The only thing you can probably do is go the traditional dating route with her at this point and just try to be her most attractive option... and, keep meeting new girls in the meantime ;)

On partner counts, the old rule of "take what she says and multiply it by 3" really does usually apply. When I was younger I used to think that was rubbish and that I was better at telling which girls were being really honest with me and which ones weren't. As I got older, I'd have some girls blurt out months later into relationships that actually, they'd lied, and it hadn't just been 2 guys, there'd been this other guy, too. Then a month later it's, "Well, actually, there was another guy I didn't tell you about as well." And the more experienced a girl is, the less telling you a little white lie about how many men she's been with weighs on her consciousness and the happier she is to let you think she's chaste and virginal if that's what you want to think (that's why I made a "how to tell" article... you'll get a much more accurate read going off her actions and behavior than you will what she actually tells you, which even with the most trusting women you can almost always expect is a lie... but don't take it personal, she lies about it to everyone).

On writing - well, experience! I've been writing a long time. But I wasn't always terribly talented. Check out the post on mastery here if you haven't yet: How to Master Anything; and, get a copy of Stephen King's On Writing... it's one of the best reads you'll find on the topic, period.

Chase

Micheal's picture

Girl identification


Hi chase,
I dont know if the girl I recently know is classified as calm girl. I know this girl and dated with her once on Tuesday. We couldn't go to bed since she needed to wake up early in the following morning for her lecture. Both of us are Master Student on different courses though. Then I texted her for a second date ( a more perfect on Saturday) but she was also busy with her school trip so I must told her that : ok, we'll make it another time.
Since then, every time I text her, she often deflect my text. She is quite calm in her appeareance and able to deflect any of my text message especially when I text something she could deflect.
For example : I tried to be a bit more dramatic when she refused my date invitation. She : 'It is cold today, and I feel a bit down. I really don't want to go out.' Me : 'uhm, to me, It was warm thinking seeing you. Any way, its just personal feeling, never mind :)' . She : kk, you make me feel like I am your heater :)), I can not ignore it but today is really cold, dont blame it on me =) '
And in the end, she just keep refuses so I let her go. What do you think, should I text another time, more persistent (Since she always replies my message. If I am warm, she is warm. But still, I am always the initiator. So she is actually on the upper hand ?) or I should just move on ?

Chase Amante's picture

Second Date

Author

Michael-

It sounds as if either you missed the escalation window, and she's going cold (disappointment over wanting something to happen, regardless of her schedule, but nothing happening), or the two of you never really hit it off on the date and she isn't that excited. Many women will reply just to reply, and like to keep men around in their lives even if they aren't making themselves sexually available to those men (see: "The Sad Tale of "Shopping Guy"").

If you still want to try with her, I'd advise trying the second date strategy from the second date article: basically, get her out somewhere she'll be able to see women attracted to you again to restore her interest. Even if it isn't a failed escalation - if it's rather that she never got all that excited - it sounds like at this point she's replying just to be nice, or just to keep you around her, rather than to take things anywhere.

You can also try letting her cool her heels for a while. Don't contact her for a couple of weeks, then get back and touch and see if she'll meet up. If she lost interest after date #1, if you're lucky and she doesn't meet anyone else in the meantime she may want to take another shot after a few weeks go by and she starts convincing herself that maybe she ought to give you more of a chance. But, do pull out your A game on that next date and make sure she knows she made the right choice...!

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Completely Calm Girls


You base the distinction on experience alone, but I verified complete calmness (and a little tendency to become manipulative) might come from... other sources. Psychological School training, for example. The whole focus of this training is making the pupil extremely calm in any situation. Be aware, and... very open about it, while dealing with the subject.

Anonymous's picture

4th Category: Calmness/coolness/in control


Chase--recently went on a date with a girl who's firmly in the 4th category. 9-9.5 on looks and probably a 10 based on the full package. She's 28 and I just turned 24, though she said she prefers to date younger guys.
We had one drink and went back to my place. She effortlessly shut down my escalation attempts as if I was a child (in a warm way though). Said that she had to work on a school project due at midnight (night classes) and couldn't stick around very long (in fairness she mentioned this at the beginning of the night). I went into semi auto-rejection but she still said "see you soon" yada yada when she left.
Few weeks later and she's flaked on a number of dates. Always returns texts immediately and very warmly and texts back paragraphs. She invited herself over to my place for drinks on Friday then cancelled the night before.
She's unemployed and looking for a job and just got dumped by her BF of 2 years. Seems like she's going through some shit. On the date, she was long sleeves and long pants during a heat wave and body language was fairly closed off despite her showing lots of interest verbally/facially. Sorry for the novel--should I cut bait on this one?

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