The Parting Shot


Something I see guys doing that always makes me want to hold up my hands and go, “Wait! Too extreme!” is getting miffed and walking away from women without giving them a properly put-together parting shot.

I was guilty of it for a long time, and when you’re still being emotionally affected by the women you’re meeting (i.e., before it’s become more or less pure process with little emotional involvement), it’s pretty easy to fall into this trap.

That is, the trap of realizing that things aren’t going your way with a given girl, getting upset, and storming off out of the interaction with a spiteful “Huh. She’ll realize what she’s lost when I’m gone!” attitude.

parting shot

Ever do this? I bet you have, and if you’re like most men I bet you sometimes still do.

Thing is, how often do those girls you abruptly cut contact with like this ever get back in touch with you and turn things around? Never, right? Occasionally they may reconnect with you, but ever notice how they treat you rather patronizingly in those cases? They know they’ve gotten to you.

At best, all you ever get out of ending things with girls this way is a psychic victory... you get to think to yourself that you “won” because you walked off and left her hanging.

But you didn’t win, not really. You didn’t get the girl.

There is a way you can though – not all the time, but a whole lot more often than you will with the “get irked and storm off” approach, in any event.

I call it “the parting shot.”


parting shot

As you know already if you’ve been reading this site for some time, I’m a man who advocates sticking to the middle in terms of how you do things, more or less. That might be because I’m naturally a man of extremes, and I’ve only learned to take the more balanced route gradually over time by failing hard repeatedly on the far ends of one spectrum or another.

If you look at how most men treat failing interactions – that is, those interactions you have with women where the girl is resisting complying with you, resisting moving forward in the interaction with you, resisting your attempts at escalation... basically, resisting anything other than that which makes you a good, loyal prospective friend or orbitertheir reactions tend to fall into one of two extremes:

  1. The “grin and bear it” extreme: in this case, the guy decides he’s already so invested that even if this girl won’t do what he wants, he’s got to stick it out and keep taking cracks at it and hope that maybe he can “wear her down.”

  2. The “walk off defiantly” extreme: in this case, the guy (generally a more experienced or aware guy than our first “grin and bear it” guy) realizes it’s not going anywhere, realizes he doesn’t have any ability to change that, and announces that he’s leaving, or maybe even doesn’t do that, and walks off head held high, defiantly, as if to say, “Ha, see! Who needs you?!”

Both are bad, for different reasons. The first is bad because you’re chasing women when you do it, obviously. When she isn’t responding and you hang around and continue investing and trying to get her responding, you’re heavily in pursuit.

And chasing rarely works. Almost never. You’re better off walking around and asking random strangers if they’d like to go home with you as the first thing you say to them.

But what about the “walk off defiantly” extreme... what’s so wrong with that?


Defiance ≠ Power

parting shotThe thing to understand about defiance is that defiance is NOT a sign of power.

Sure, it’s a more powerful emotion than supplication. And it will very occasionally get people to chase after you who were merely bluffing with their resistance before, and your defiantly marching off into the sunset shocks them and frightens them and triggers chasing behavior so as not to lose you.

But for those people who aren’t bluffing – and that’s most of them – what defiance looks like is the middle ground between power and weakness. Defiance says, “I’m no pushover,” but it also says, “I’m not in charge.”

Defiance acknowledges the other person’s dominance, and simply states that the defiant party will not play ball.

It’s impossible for me to defy you if you do not hold some power over me; do not have something that I very much want. Defiance is a form of objection; if I defy you, I announce, “I will not do what you require of me to get what I want.”

It is a defensive move, not an offensive move. And you don’t win on defense.

To get a clearer picture of what this does to the power dynamic between you and a girl, imagine, if you will, that the situations are reversed.

You’re talking to a girl, and she’s bugging you to come and sit with her and meet her friends, but you keep brushing off her attempts to escalate things with you and telling her, “A little later, I’m enjoying standing up here by the bar... in a little bit; I’m still waiting for my friends to come back.”

Eventually, she says, “Fine. Well, it was nice meeting you,” and turns around and walks off... not without some hint of annoyance. What do you feel?

Chances are, you smile to yourself: “Wow, she really liked me! She was pretty upset I didn’t go with her,” and if you see her again, you’re going to treat her like your kid sister: how cute; how defiant; how young.

And that’s how women view you, and how they treat you, when you have even a whiff of defiance around your exiting of an interaction with them.

It doesn’t make them “miss you” or “realize what they’ve just missed out on.” It just makes them understand you’re going into auto-rejection, and they see you as “cute” and “harmless” after that... because you’ve confirmed that they are the ones in power.


parting shot

The parting shot is all about not exiting defiantly, as well as not standing around pressing for more and more once you’ve run into a wall and aren’t getting anywhere. Instead, it’s about reading when you’ve reached the limit of what you can pull off with a girl, and exiting stage left, while (frequently) giving her a last opportunity, in a calm way, to continue the interaction with you.

Done right, this positions you as powerful, dominant, and equal or superior to her in social status on exit. That’s due to several aspects of the dynamic:

  • You make no bones about the fact that you want to progress things with her
  • Yet, you leave calmly and neutrally despite not getting what you wanted
  • Finally, you leave things open to potentially pick back up again later

The end result is, some of the time she’ll go with you, and much of the time she’ll be a lot more receptive to reopening by you later on... or will reopen you herself.


Structuring Your Parting Shot

When you part ways with a woman, you want to make absolutely certain of three (3) things:

  1. That she knows why you’re leaving
  2. That she respects why you’re leaving
  3. That she views your parting as a loss

Each of these three elements fit into a successful parting shot – one that ups your odds of her reversing her resistance and instead complying, or that alters her feelings about you after you leave, widening the opening of the door you’ve left ajar for your return to conversation with her later on.

Here’s how each of those above three things factors in:


#1: She Knows Why You’re Leaving

Something you’ll see men do wrong with women is repeatedly run into resistance for a while, then suddenly peel off with a, “Well, I’ve got to get going,” or a, “Hey, let me catch up with you later,” that seems to come abruptly out of the blue. In this case, the girl kind of knows why you’re leaving – it wasn’t really going anywhere – but she doesn’t have anything specific to target that she could change if she wanted to change it, and she ends up feeling somewhat confused (which often leads to her then just shrugging and writing you off – not the way you want her feeling on your exit).

Instead, you must do this: exit immediately after a bit of failed compliance. Then, you’re employing sound operant conditioning and using negative punishment (taking something good – in this case, yourself / your attention – away) immediately following the behavior you’re working to discourage, allowing her to fix it if she wishes, since now she knows exactly the cause (her lack of compliance).

That’d look like this:

You: [chit chat]

Her: That’s so amazing. What did you like best about that city?

You: Well, I – here, let’s go grab a seat and sit down to be more comfortable.

Her: I can’t – I’ve got to stay here and wait for my friends.

You: We’ll be right there – you’ll be able to see them perfectly fine from those seats. Let’s sit.

Her: I just want to wait near the bar.

You: If we’re going to have any remotely interesting conversation, I’d like to do it sitting down. Let’s go have a seat.

Her: I’ll just stay up here.

You: Ha, all right. Well, I’m going to go sit down over there regardless – once you’ve caught up with your friends, come on over and join me.

Her: Okay.

You: [wink and leave]

Here’s, it’s extremely clear why you’re leaving – you want to sit, and she won’t go along with it. You’ve also given her clear instructions on what to do when she’s ready to reengage you, though that isn’t always necessary – you can instruct her on reengaging or not, depending on the scenario (e.g., if you’re talking to a girl at work or in class, you may not want to instruct her to reengage you if there’s a chance you may have to reengage her first for work/school reasons).

Of course, even if she understands why you’re leaving, that doesn’t work unless it’s coupled with the fact that...


#2: She Respects Why You’re Leaving

parting shotImagine that same example scenario above, except that in this case rather than ask the girl to sit down, you asked her for a sip of her drink, and she declined. Would this be a good reason for him to exit the conversation?

No, not at all. It’s not a reason to quit talking to someone and leave; and no matter how cool you look doing it, it’s a pretty tough thing to justify.

Conversely, in the original example, it’s pretty clear: you want to have an interesting conversation, and you can’t do that standing up. You read her declining to sit down as her declining to have a meaningful conversation with you, and if she’s not going to have a meaningful conversation with you, what’s the point of you continuing to hang around?

Your exiting the conversation there communicates strongly that you’re not leaving because your feelings or hurt, or that you feel like you’re being out-dominated by her, or that you don’t know what to do. Instead, all she reads it as is “he wants to have a real conversation with me, and I’m telling him I want to meet my friends.”

If she likes you, she’s going to like you even more after this – wow, he’s SERIOUS about wanting to get to know me. And you’ll be surprised at how often women will seek you back out again, on exactly the terms you specify, when you deliver a parting shot with a clear, respectable reason like this (and, occasionally, they’ll even say, “Wait, okay, but just for a few minutes,” and go along with you after all before you can actually leave).

There are a variety of respectable reasons you can leave, including:

  • You want to sit because it’s more comfortable, and you’re not a fan of being jostled by the crowd (communicates you want a more private conversation with her)

  • You want to get walking because standing in place is lifeless and uninvigorating, and being moving livens things up (communicates you want to inject more energy into the conversation with her and escalate things forward, and also that you want to bring her along with you, if the two of you are walking together)

  • You want to start circulating because there’s a lot more of the venue/show/event to see, and you’re never going to see it stuck in place (communicates that you want to explore, and you want to bring her along and include her on your explorations)

Those are just a few to get you started. The gist of it is, you’re attempting to move a girl, and making her feel welcomed and included with you if she joins you... and as though she missed a chance to pair up with an attractive guy who was working to bring her deeper into his world if she declines.

She frequently will not decline again the next time you talk to her, and may well follow you later on her own, or even follow you immediately and not allow you to actually leave.

That requires our third element to make it all stick together though, first...


#3: She Views Your Parting as a Loss

Just as you want to get a phone number from a girl on a high point in your conversation with her, you also want to attempt moving her – and deliver your parting shot if she won’t comply – on a high point, too. That’s because if you do it like this:

Her: ... and that’s how my dad died.

You: That’s so terrible. Nothing worse than losing a loved one. [pause] Hey, let’s go and grab a seat and continue this conversation sitting down.

... and she declines to go with you, even if you deliver the best parting shot in the world, she’s going to end up feeling better once you’re gone than when you were last there (and taking her through either sad, or rage-inducing, or boring conversation, as the case may have been).

The emotion you want her feeling as you leave is, “Man, it was really good talking to him!” and then, not long after, “You know, I’d be enjoying myself a lot more if I was still talking to that cute guy who asked me to go sit with him earlier.”

Part ways with her on a high point, and you’re all but assured of her both:

  1. Wanting to continue the conversation with you later, and

  2. Being open to you reengaging her later, or not even letting you go in the first place

This is how you really leave a girl sad to see you go... not by leaving defiantly, but by leaving welcomingly – and on a high point.


To Invite or Not to Invite

You don’t have to push as hard for her to come join you as we did in that example before. In fact, you don’t even have to invite a girl to accompany you on your parting shot – you can simply take off after she makes it clear she won’t progress forward through the interaction with you, with a, “Well, I’m going to go scout out the rest of the venue – I’ll check back in with you later.”

However, if you’re not planning on pursuing her again later yourself, ALWAYS give her instructions on how to reengage you. There’s no reason not to, assuming you’re doing cold approach (if you’re running social circle game, you’ll usually run into her later on incidentally, so this isn’t necessarily mandatory, though can still be very good form) – you lose nothing by giving her some quick brief instructions, and you very much up your odds that she will track you down later and throw herself right back into an interaction with you – this time as pursuer instead of as pursued.

This one’s so simple, so easy to do, but I see lots of guys not doing it for what I can only presume are ego reasons: they think, “I’m not going to invite her and look weak and needy, because she’s not going to come anyway.”

But let’s think about it for a moment – if you’re never going to see her again, does it matter if you “look weak and needy”?

And if 1 out of every 6 or 7 girls you deliver a parting shot to tracks you down and reinitiates with you later per your instruction for her to, isn’t that a far better outcome than had you just broken off and left without much good reason, and end up having 0 out of every 6 or 7 girls track you down to reengage you later?

Scale that up to 600 or 700 women with parting shots delivered to, and that's a pretty big disparity in success rates between the two.

If you’re just leaving defiantly instead of leaving on a high point with a welcoming attitude and an invitation to seek you back out later with instructions on how to do so, stop shooting yourself in the foot. It doesn’t make you seem any more valuable... it makes you look less in control, and thus less attractive.

Instead, give her a parting shot – if she doesn’t follow up later, you’ll still command far more respect from her than had you exited any other way; and if she does, well, you’ve just given yourself a big “in” with her you wouldn’t have gotten had you left without giving her the chance to approach you again later on.

Yours,
Chase Amante

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Chase, there are those guys


Chase,
there are those guys in school who always
score the top grades but do it so effortlessly. They never
actually seem to work hard and are always cool.
they get questions like: "how is it that you score so well when you never
work". How can I be like that? I get top grades but, unlike these
guys, I look like someone who works very hard. Please advise me
on how to be one of those guys.

Chase Amante's picture

Good Grades without the Appearance of Hard Work

Author

Anon-

Check out these articles on efficiency / efficacy:

... and also these on appearances:

A big part of it is doing your work in private and having a sense of humor about it, as well as in fitting in extracurriculars where you can.

If no one ever actually sees you working, most people tend to assume you aren't working. And if you're joking around and taking things seemingly lightly and having a good time doing various cool things, people will tend to assume you're no work and all play... even if you get a lot more done than they do.

And then they end up scratching their heads and wondering about you too.

Chase

Yink's picture

What About In Other Situations?


Hi Chase,you just gave me an eye-opener concerning what I've been doing lately,I quickly drop the ball with women who are resisting my attempts to escalate with them,at least now I know what to do.However there is an aspect you didn't include here:What about in other situations like girls flaking on dates or refusing to come home with you(not just interactions)?,do you just tell them to call or text you when they are ready to see you(this technique won't work for most girls because they are trying to protect their ego).So how would you tell a girl that you won't call or text her anymore until she is ready to come over to your place or have a date with you without making her feel that you are going into auto-rejection?.Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Flakes & Failed Pulls

Author

Yink-

My usual flake-control strategies are here: "What to Do When Girls Flake."

If I'm writing a girl off though because she simply isn't meeting up is to send her something like this: Hey, well, it seems like you're super busy, which I totally understand! Spent plenty of time there myself. Anyway, since you're the one with the super-crammed schedule, I'll leave the ball in your court - when you're ready to meet up, shoot me a text some time and let me know when you're free.

Then she's either going to contact you again, or not; either way, you can quit worrying about her and are free to devote all your energies elsewhere.

As for girls who aren't coming home with you... it's been my experience that a failed pull is very likely to ever result in a girl coming home with you another time later, so if a girl isn't coming along I'll give her a hard push... and if that still doesn't work, I'll kindly and fondly bid her farewell, and peel off in search of a girl who will say "yes" instead (and forget altogether about that girl who kept saying "no").

Chase

Anonymous's picture

You're a genius Chase.


You're a genius Chase.

phelwan's picture

Parting Shot


Chase,

Whats up! Recently had a relationship with a woman and broke up. The break up still racks my brain. For the break up I basically just walked off defiantly and i was never to be heard from again. I was wondering if the 3 parts of structuring your "parting shot" should be applied to break ups as well or should i just use the 3 techniques for pick up? Sounds like i could use them for break ups as well?

Phelwan

Chase Amante's picture

Breaking Up

Author

Phelwan-

I suppose you could, if the reason you were leaving was because the relationship wasn't going how you wanted it to, but you'd be open to the relationship resuming if it would resume on your terms.

If you were going to do something like that, you'd just tell the girl that you can't be in a relationship like [whatever your relationship is] anymore, but that when she's ready to [whatever you want from the relationship], she should give you a call sometime and if you're single maybe the two of you can grab lunch.

Chase

Pablo's picture

Good point + tip


Nice article, really putting things in perspective when you reverse the roles.
That's how you should always be thinking,:How would it look if she did that to me?

But when the girl is pretty invested in you and you already have kissed her or you can see she REALLY likes you you could also fake leave. Just suddenly say in the middle of the conversation: Sorry I can't talk to you anymore (said playfully at first), then slowly turn your back and walk away. When done in a fun kind of way and not be butt hurt like: Sorry. I can't talk to you anymore! (with a serious face).

When the girl gets it's just playing she'll try to stop you and be like: Wait no why can't you talk to me? You: you just want to use me for my body. And she'll be chasing you. Later on the interaction when it's already initiated playfully you can be fake serious and leave and they'll keep stopping you and girls love this.

Wouldn't try this if you're not that experienced yet though, fundamentals need to be tight or she could not respond and don't really give a fuck if you leave. Like I said she needs to be invested. If you notice she isn't coming after you, you can be like: No just kidding (while continuing the conversation). OR coming back and flipping the script saying: You really would have let me go? What the fuck Megan. you're supposed to fight for me. (said like a joke of course)

Keep up the good work guys!

Regards,
Pablo

Joseph's picture

Meditation


Chase,

I'd like to hear your thoughts on meditation. I've heard from other PUA's that it benefits presence of mind and emotional control and I was wondering if you had any experience with it.

Joe

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Meditation

Author

Joe-

I first began using it originally when I was combatting depression, if you don't include some limited brain training, anchoring, and calming I used to do in primary and high school; while I credit the process I used for rewiring the brain here by far the most, the meditation certainly helped train me to more easily direct my thoughts, which was one of the pieces needed to carry out that process.

Today I meditate weekdays in the morning and at night; I use it primarily for destressing (you'll least want to meditate when highly stressed, but forcing yourself to clear all thoughts out and focus completely on the present is one of the most relaxing things you can do), and also for refocusing myself on the big picture when combined with visualization. I've also used meditation + visualization for overcoming flawed beliefs, as discussed here: "How to Visualize: 5 Steps to Massive Success."

Peter, one of our previous writers on the site, has a nice article on meditation here too: "Brain Hacks: Meditation for the Stressed and Busy."

Chase

lucifer's picture

Removing excitement and sadness through meditation


Hey Chase,

I remember in a previous post you mentioned you purged the extremesm excitement and sadness, through brain-rewiring.

That got me thinking as I also feel I'm moving towards a more "perpetual grey" situation with fewer and milder mood swings.

Why would someone want that?
Why removing the swings from life, why becoming more of a robot?

And I thought it would be good to revert that, or even better: only reintroduce excitement and happiness.

Any thoughts on that, or any reason why you wanted to be avoid stronger emotions?

Anonymous's picture

Deep Diving subjects


Top article Chase

Thanks for your response to my earlier question about Deep Diving subjects.
Another topic I wanted to know about is - What she's afraid of and what she's excited by. Is this a good topic to discuss in Deep Diving?

Thanks, and keep up the great site

Chase Amante's picture

Fear and Excitement

Author

Anon-

Yes, those are great topics - though you'll usually want to dwell not too long on fear, and move quickly to inspiring her and believing in her. Anything that triggers deep emotions, so long as they aren't bad or harmful toward the seduction, is good and fair game.

Chase

Danilo's picture

conversation


Hey chase, how about times when you cold approach certain girls and they show attraction signals but just dont say anything or respond to anything you assume about them or any questions you ask, but you can actually tell there attracted because they´re looking at you, preening, etc. i really dont know how to get past this one, because its like if they´re too hard to get

Anonymous's picture

keep pushing


One of the articles mentions that you just 'keep pushing' through that since its not all about signals (power in her hands), you make the results that you want (youre in control). Easier said than doe ofc.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: keep pushing

Author

Right, exactly - Danilo, flirting is often rather irrelevant to seduction... as many girls will flirt with you who just like the attention but have little interest in you, while plenty more girls will very much like you but don't know how to flirt, aren't inclined to, or are too nervous around you too.

Instead, you want to focus on moving girls and continually following your process.

Chase

Pep's picture

writing, kenya


Great insights Chase.
I've read some other pickup blogs out there and most of them just make it seem like the man must come out "on top" which is really just an ego defense mechanism. I see in your example there the man standing his ground and though he doesn't get compliance in the end, he still exits gracefully. Something even some seduction "experts" struggle with.

A question though; I'm 24, studying game, and since i'm a self-improvement junkie, i see myself as a seduction/life coach some day. What's your recommendation for the best book or resource to sharpen my writing skills?
P.S I'm Kenyan, and i gather you haven't been around these parts. When you do consider Africa, put Kenya in your top 5. ;-) You'll love it!

Chase Amante's picture

Re: writing, kenya

Author

Pep-

Great observation about the need for the man to "come out on top." That is an oddly prevalent trend in PUA... you almost never see it with men who are self-taught / naturally good with women. My presumption is it's more about saving face in front of fellow PUA friends, where a "culture of dominance" has sprouted up the past half decade, than anything else. It doesn't really serve any other social function.

Writing-wise, I haven't read much on the subject, but I have read Stephen King's On Writing, and that's positively wonderful. If you have a chance to pick up that tome, do so; in the meantime, his advice of "write 2,000 words a day, no matter how you're feeling or how much you don't want to" is the best advice anyone who's looking to improve his writing can follow.

As for Kenya... I will! I dated a really beautiful, sexy, elegant, vivacious girl from Kenya for a short while a number of years ago, and she was a true character - tons of fun, and very memorable. I'm curious to see if she broke the mold, or that's just standard fare for people from Kenya.

Chase

Pep's picture

writing, kenya


True, most PUAs are hell-bent on saving face. In the end, it's the readers who end up acting on such poor advice and fail to get the results they'd be hoping for.

Haha, i see you already have the kenyan flag. Why am i not surprised? Nice to hear you met a bubbly one... i can't speak for all of them but i believe that kind of personality is more of the norm here. I haven't travelled much but just from meeting a few euro expats here in kenya, i was really disappointed by the individualistic nature of these peeps. I guess it's just a culture thing though, nothing wrong with the specific people. Perhaps we africans are used to collectivism and it's hard to think otherwise.

On that note: could you be well versed on this topic of culture and maybe come up with a post on how people from different cultures around the world behave, especially in relation to seduction and relationships? For example, the hookup culture here is a lot more suppressed than in the west (except in the capital and the coastal towns flooded with tourists).
Even the very liberal girls are under pressure to get married, and slut-shaming is also the norm here.

I also read a post that you linked to by Naughty Nomad that most of the sex in africa is transactional. I can't say that is true. See, it's only transactional when you're dealing with working* girls, just like it is in south east asia or anywhere else. But majority of the girls aren't working, so tourists never get to meet them. Those who frequent clubs usually do so with their social circle or boyfriends. So except for high-end joints, most girls who the tourists come into contact with in the clubs are working. Though i do admit many dream of meeting a white man for marriage or an LTR because of the promise of financial security. Just had to clarify that, especially for those with a badly skewed view of africa.

Thanks for the book recommendation! I'm sort of looking to model myself around your style so it should be of great help.

Troy's picture

Questions


Chase

I posted a previous comment on a recent article (i think in "reversing poor past precedent with girls you like") article, about a girl that gave me a "maybe" when i asked a her out to get some lunch.

In your reply to me you stated that a girl giving me a "maybe" was rejecting me SOFTLY to not hurt my feelings but potentially have me around because she isnt socially experienced enough to say she isnt interested.

You,chase also recommended that i give her some pre-selection to wet her appitite before trying to ask her out again and get a firmer "NO".

The problem that i face now is that for me preselection is not easy to get. forget the fact that im in high school because its still social circle and the same thing works on all age groups in most situations.

If i remember clearly in a reply to someone on here (correct me if im wrong) that girls who are less attractive than the girl i sought after or female friends of the girl im trying to get or girls she dislikes; that using these girls for preselection is going to be transparent to the girl and get me NO POINTS in furthuring my interaction with the girl. correct me if im wrong please?

so what ive done was ive been trying to meet girls from other "top" schools and the street, hitting it off with them and trying to get them to the hook point so i can get them to follow or meet up with me at my school/social circle venue and get them to be my preselection to the girl i asked out 2 months ago (and other girls there i like too).

the problem i have now is that i would have to get some attractive girls to come with me but im not yet an attractive, interesting and engaging guy to get girls to accompany me to my school.

The second reason is that at the time of day where having the girls at my school to give me preselection would be the same time that they should be at school getting in their classes so id have to be EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE to get them to skip 1 day from their school and come by my school. also, lunch time is midday and the best time to have them at my school when everybody (including the same girl) would be in the cafeteria and get a good long view of attractive girls persuing me.

I was thinking of staying on the periphery of the girls as you discussed in "the secret to hooking up with friends" article. What i fear happening is that the girl sees me everyday in the mean time and any little attraction she has for me goes poof.

Another instance, today during lunch time i sat with a male friend talking at one of the cafeteria tables and a 2 friends of the girl that gave me a "maybe" when i asked her out (the friends were a girl and guy). all the other seats at the table was occupied by other people and there was 1 empty seat beside me so when the girl came, she was forced to sit beside me across from her friends. she sat next to me and she didnt look at me (she looked straight at her friends across the table) and didnt lean back in her seat. her hands were folded and her body turned slighty away from me. i waited about 15 seconds after she sat down next to me then i put my right hand (she sat to my right) on her upper back right above her bra and gave her a gentle stroke then i said:

troy: hi (i didnt use her name. is this the right thing to do when she doesnt use my name to address me and based on her "maybe" when i asked her out?)

girl: hi

troy: wats up?

girl: nothing (she said that without looking at me)

troy: hey, how u look so washed out today like you getting brown (she is dark in complexion and i said this to tease her only because her face actually looked ligher than usual).

girl: (she gave me a slight push and smiled then turned away from me slighty)

And thats when a guy who i suspect she is kind of dating (or talking to because they kind of like each other and he is a good athlete), he came up beside her and they started flirting then he asked her to follow him somewhere. She got up from beside me and walked away in front of where i

Could see them without turning my head or body as they walked off. I took a giimpse at her and immediately she looked behind her at me and i felt so embarassed to have her catch me looking at her as she walked away with that other cat. was it wrong that i look at her as she walked away with another guy? What could i have done differently?

The funny thing about this situation is that ever since i asked her out, and she said "maybe" it seems that as soon as i get near to her, she has the same guy coming up to her and they start talking then she leaves with him. its as if she is using a jealousy plot against me or just trying to get me to stop persuing her because she isnt romantically interested in me and the most she would do now with me is try putting me in the friend zone.

I should also note that before i asked her out, i told her that i like her. i said it like this:

" hey you know that i think you are cute and i like you".

I said this before she showed lots of interest in me. is this correct? i was following the advice you gave in the article "why nice guys finish last", about how to start telling girls you like them because its not something i normally do and before i started doing it i would hide my interest in the girls that i really like.

If this is a lost case with the girl (and in other situations to prevent this from occuring again, what can i do different?

questions:

1) How do i stop listening to my gut and chase women who i could never get?

2) There is another girl that i always have to say "hi" to before she does. i use her name when saying "hi" and she knows my name but doesnt use mine. its been 1 year ive been trying to get her with half assed attempts because i was just too nervous to make a move, but even still she didnt seem interested even when i just met her so maybe there is no hope there. how do i figure out what she wants to do with me by her reaction? should i stop calling to her when we see each other? how do i stop chasing a girl and move on?

Chase Amante's picture

Chasing

Author

Troy-

That's right; if a girl who spurned you sees you getting attention from less attractive / lower status girls, it can occasionally still make her jealous if she was just playing a game (and those other girls aren't too far beneath her), but the effect is usually muted or even negative if she genuinely wasn't much interested. To reverse genuine lack of interest, she needs to see you with someone better, and that someone needs to be obviously pretty interested.

If you're not at a point where you can pull off preselection, then it's better to forget about the girls who require it to get interested in you again, and instead focus on new prospects. You can always circle back around again later (if you still care to) once your skills have evolved.

The conversation with the girl who sat next to you was chasing; it made it awkward for her, since she's already expressed disinterest, and you tried forcing conversation there. What it sounds like happened was her boyfriend / prospect noticed her discomfort, and came over to rescue her from an awkward situation. The best thing you could've done instead of trying to force rapport is just catch eye contact from her when she sits down, smile slightly, and nod. If she refuses you eye contact and sits facing slightly away from you, ignore her and face your body even more away from her to reject her for her rejection, while you talk to other people instead. Treat her like a ghost.

Staring at her as she walked off with someone else also communicates longing / chasing. Don't do this; be fully immersed in talking to others instead.

Telling girls you think they're cute and you like them is also just bad game (hopefully that was long before you discovered this site!), but I imagine that's probably pretty common for younger guys, since most guys in their teenage years seem to still find socializing and flirting confusing places and they haven't learned to empathize with women yet and communicate with them in ways they'll respond to.

There isn't anything else I can say on chasing other than what I already have; I know you've read the articles. It's probably just something you need to get wrong enough that you get angry enough at yourself where you stop and say, "Okay, you know what? I am DONE chasing after girls." Until that happens, even though you know better, you're unlikely to be able to restrain yourself.

In other words, it'll come with time - some things you just need to stumble your way to rather than glide to.

Proximity also makes it harder - high school's just a bizarre place where you can't get away from people you'd be better off getting away from; you're stuck with them, at least until high school's over. Yet another reason why you're probably best served focusing your meeting of women on women outside of school instead of in it, at least until you know what you're doing well enough.

Chase

bransfabulous's picture

Old Girl


Hey Chase,

I have been reading a bunch of your articles and you have a lot of great ideas and insight. I have a complicated situation with a girl that I almost used to date. Firstly I am 22 and she is 26 and I am still in college and she has a job. But when we are together age doesn't seem like an issue at all. What happened is that I met her 4 weeks before I had to leave for the summer and we went out a lot. I tried to get her emotionally connected but it was hard because she knew I was leaving for a couple months. I never got the chance sleep with her. Over the break we texted but ran out of things to text. then at one point I felt like I was putting into much work so I stopped for 3 weeks, This is where everything went bad. Basically from there she stopped texting back. I waited about months then tried again. She started texting back and so I tried to get her out a soon as possible. She said she wanted to meet up but didn't give me a definite time. This is where I took my friends advice and started to look desperate. I texted her too much and called her ounce leaving a message. She responded but I got to the point where I said she should let me know when she gets time to meet up. I thought that was the last I would talk to her but then I ran into her a week ago at a bar. This was after about a 3.5 month period of not talking to her. I had basically moved on so when I saw her I was not very excited and didn't want to act like I was still thirsty. She bought me a drink and we talked for a bit.

We exchanged numbers again and I asked her the next day if she wanted to grab drinks. She agreed but screwed up because I wanted to act like I was in control of the situation so I told her when I was free saying that I was busy the other days. She didn't respond so I texted her 2 days later to see what her schedule was like and she said that Friday could work. I have work until 9pm so I said I could only go out with her later after work. She said that she was going to meet up with her friends later. I said that was fine and asked her what her schedule was like next week. She hasn't responded since we talked yesterday. Her text keep getting slower. This is where I need help. Is she playing hard to get and wanting to be sure that I won't hurt again (when I just stopped textn for 3 weeks)? Is she just stringing me a long? I know that I need to get her out as soon as possible and that the clock is winding down. I also don't want to look desperate like I did that last time we texted 4 months ago. Sorry for the length of this post but I wasn't sure I could portray my situation in a shorter post.

Thanks Chase

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Old Girl

Author

Bran-

Check out these two articles:

The main problem is your value dropping over time with inaction / nothing sexual happening, and you becoming a (platonic) fixture in her life. With the setting up of the date, things had already progressed to the point where she didn't have much interest in you left, and acting like she has to bend to your schedule just makes her go, "Bah, never mind."

A good comparison might be if you met a girl you were just sort of interested in. Maybe if she got you out on a date, she could reinterest you and get you more excited about her, but over text if she sends you things like, "I'm only free on X days at X times - when's good for you?" you're a lot more likely to say, "Meh, I'd rather play some video games," and flake or not respond.

The best call here might be dropping things for a while and letting them cool off, and then in 3 or 4 weeks shooting her the text from this post: "Check-In Text If You Haven't Texted in a While."

Then, once you've got her out on the date, don't disappoint - check these out if you need help setting things up to go properly:

Chase

bransfabulous's picture

Thanks


Thanks Chase for getting back to me so fast. These articles were great! Ill try this out and see what happens.

Anonymous's picture

A Considered Parting Shot to Get a Girl Back...


Chase, I got a question for you...

In previous articles I've seen you refer a great deal to the importance of not chasing when things aren't going right with a girl, not dwelling on a girl losing interest, not getting upset when she isn't replying to texts etc...

One article that has stuck in my head is the one about how to try and salvage a situation when the girl has lost interest ('how to get a girl back, the ultimate guide') - partly because it has once or twice applied to me but also because it's one of the very few articles on your site where you seem to be saying that there's very little that can genuinely be done to rectify the situation.

When I read the first half of the 'parting shot' article I identified with how I've felt in the past when a girl has started to lose interest, though in my case not in a pick-up scenario but in a longer-term situation. I was wondering whether you think your parting shot strategy would work in reversing the emotions of a girl who you might seemingly have 'lost' or if the two are in fact entirely unrelated and unworthy of comparison.

Please let me know your thoughts, I always find myself a little amazed that any guy can understand the female psychology as comprehensively as you do!

All best

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