Independent Women vs. Submissive Women: The Merits of Each | Girls Chase

Independent Women vs. Submissive Women: The Merits of Each

Nothing like a contentious topic framed by a loaded question to wake you up and bring out the strong opinions. So here’s one: what’s better, an independent woman... or a submissive one?

independent women vs. submissive women

If you read “The 4 Kinds of Girls and Which Ones YOU Should Go For”, you’re familiar with both halves of the pie; for the purposes of this article, “soft” = submissive, and “strong” = independent. These are the same things, just described there in more neutral language, and here in more of the language du jour.

In today’s article, we’ll have a look at the merits of both kinds of women – the independent variety, and the submissive variety – and talk about what roles in what men’s lives each are best suited for.

Because while you no doubt have a very strong opinion yourself on which of these two women is “better” and which men should want... I dare say that’s going to vary tremendously from person to person and lifestyle and objectives to lifestyle and objectives.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Anonymous's picture

Chase, I have to ask, where do you get these pictures that fit the topic so well?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Most images you see in the on-site articles are from Fotolia.com.

Chase

Sam2's picture

Chase,

What a topical piece of writing!

I would like to add something I read somewhere else in the manosphere concerning the types of women a man can encounter. The author made a clear distinction between Independents and "Dominants" and he adviced men not to confuse these two. His distinction rang a bell from my personal life history with regard to "dominant" women which he basically describes as combining the demanding mannerisms of an independent woman with the soul of a submissive one.

This is a woman who, while she would try to boss you around, she would be dependent on her man, needy for a man when single, and expecting to be taken care of the old traditional way. In essence, she is only demanding with reagard to what a man SHOULD do for her, while not demanding at all with her otherwise simple, unambitious, and unsuccessful life. Practically, the "dominants" are women who give you a raw deal.

The impressive thing is that the author claimed that these women tend to become the prevalent paradigm for women and constitute 60% of the female population.

Where would you classify these "dominants" in your own categorisation?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sam-

That's a curious distinction. Submissive women certainly are dominant in their own way; as noted in the article, they'll tend to limit their partners' freedom during relationships, mostly through need / dependence, passive aggression, or occasionally by making a stand on important relationship issues. Independent women, conversely, tend not to be as concerned with these things.

People will tend to fight hard for what they really want, and women tend to have a clearer idea about what they really want and have the moral imperative (backed up by society, generally) to take what they want. In this way, when you throw most men and most women together, the women tend to sort out on the top of the pile. There are few men that are able to either ignore the pressures of society or bend them to their own will in order to put moral force behind their wants that's stronger than the moral force behind a woman's wants; most men usually end up needing to skirt around women to get what they want, rather than go through them.

In this way, you might argue that all women are predisposed to be dominant in their relationships - whatever they might be - with all men. The way I was using dominance in the article was mainly in terms of which men are most effective at asserting their own will and remaining in control, though independent men tend to keep their dominance primarily by staying out from under women's thumbs. You might be able to say that any time you put a man and a woman together who are roughly equally invested in a relationship, the woman will become the more dominant party because she has greater moral authority and feels more comfortable and more justified asserting her will over the other partner.

Chase

dcl's picture

Hello Chase,

This article combined with Colt's article, "What Causes Girl Fights and Female Competition?" have been very informative to me. A lot of things I read in those 2 articles I knew but perhaps could not express them as well as they are written in here, thank you for simplifying and clarifying. Very interesting: "Consciously or subconsciously, women coach their friends against success."
Thanks again, Cheers. -Devon

Anonymous's picture

Does the type of woman you meet influence the vibe in which you should approach her? Knowing you can approach with a friendly, direct, sexual, funny, or smooth etc. vibe, how do I figure out which one to go in with?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

It does; check out these two articles for specifics on adapting your vibe:

Chase

Anonymous's picture

chase,

when a girl is ready to be pulled or is with you in a private place and she wants to be pulled or taken to bed, how will she act?

i have heard nervous and quiet quite a lot, like she will almost stop talking and giving you feedback in conversation is that right?

do girls ever get really talkative when they are ready for sex etc?

-

what is the deal on compliments with beautiful girls and not so beautiful girls? do you want to opt to compliment the not to beautiful girls more and build more comfort with them and challenge the better looking ones slightly more?

thanks.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Most women shut down their conversation when they become very aroused and ready for sex. When you see a woman become overly talkative, speaking a mile a minute, and turning into a chatterbox when the sexual vibe gets strong, it's because she's anticipating taking some action - occasionally that's an action to help propel the two of you toward sex, but more often it's that she's read the moment correctly, and is preparing herself to shut you down or stop you when you decide to make your move. You can still sometimes make something happen here, but it's the tougher road, and you'll need to be on your game a lot more than you'll need to with the girl who goes quiet.

Compliments / teasing is entirely up to your attainability to the girl; her level of beauty is but one factor in that. The more attainable you seem, the more teasing you can and should do, and the less complimenting; the less attainable you seem, the less teasing, and the more complimenting. See these articles for more:

Chase

dantex's picture

Hi Chase, I discovered your site a year ago and it's been incredibly useful. What I noticed though is that you seem to focus on girls that are more docile and how to bed them pronto. I have a different question. What is your opinion of girls whi are incredibly cocky?
Im on one of dating sites and a couple of months ago a girl chatted me up. We got to talking and she stated she is the highest quality. I saw her photos and she was attractive but... her high and direct opinion about herself alarmed me a bit. Its like a genleman never says he's a gentleman. He just is one.

I must say I got intrigued by this girl and I want to meet her. She gave me her phone so we could set up a meet. I called her the other day to talk first as she lives far far away from my town and I wanted to make sure she's not dumb. To my surprise she turned out really articulate and a pretty smooth talker but continued with all this 'my body is so grreat and I look so good'. She also said that she's looking for sex abd guys usually dont get it and can't accept when the fling finishes and she has to deal with the drama...

Chase I got interested in her and she turned me on on the phone! Yes I do want sex but I don't have a girlfriend at the moment and I'm afraid I can fall for her... A month ago when she chatted me up I brused het off and I offended her a little and she told me Im one bad spiteful guy and I think she has this ppinion and it interested her.

Chase Im not that bad and I want to meet her but oh man I don't know.

What is your opinion of such girls? Shes 32 and Im 33. Dont you think everyone wants to have this one special person to share life with?

My cousin told me once how she wanted to meet a guy she got fascinated with on the dating site and she was very disappointed when she SAW him because he looked different than in the photos. She said she got angry. Im afraid and always put off seeing girls from the internet I don't want to disappoint anyone this way because I'd see this and would feel awful. Some girls say Im awesome but some think of me as very average. I need to get rid of this fear somehow.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Dante-

Actually, I avoid overly tame or docile women - they're not terribly interesting or exciting for me, and they get hurt far too easily. My preference is for independent women with educations and good careers, albeit ones who steer clear of the party scene and are focused more on their ambitions than their entertainment.

Cockiness in women is a little different from outright independence, in that it tends to be a defense mechanism - truly secure, confident women aren't cocky, they're poised or energetic. Cockiness is a male identity / communication style some women pick up in an attempt to outcompete or outrank men; they generally adopt it as a way of keeping others at arm's reach, preventing closeness and intimacy, which they've developed a fear of at some point in their lives.

So, even if you can end up in some kind of relationship with her, she's going to be a big project - which you might want if you like the idea of "taming" a girl, but this is more like taming a horse who's wild because she's been beaten and hurt before than it is taming one who's wild because she's just always been a free spirit. You'll have a harder time, and end up with a damaged mount that'll never fully trusts you.

Anyway, it sounds as though you've already finished this one; the precedent is set. However, if you think you still have a shot, try asking her out - maybe she'll meet up with you after all. You've more or less got to get her in person before you can work your magic.

Chase

Balla's picture

Hey chase, I don't know if I could of seen this girl again, but I didn't ask for the number since it wasn't on a high note and I felt the conversation was dying. Let me know if I was wrong though.

Im at the club, I danced with this girl for a while then I started talking to her and moved her over to the bar area and she complied very easily. I was pretty much talkative and she'd ask me questions here and there. She told me where she lived by and it was just basic small talk with a little flirting here and there. I was a little drunk so my head wasn't right and I just was deep diving, then we kept getting awkward silences, because I really couldn't think of anything to say since I was pretty much drunk. So, the conversation seem to died and I just left because I know its a nono to get the number on a low note.

I just would like to know your thoughts on the report and if I made the right call or if I should of just pulled?

And how long should the conversation between her and I be? What should we talk about briefly before I get the number so I get it on a high note?
Thanks

Balla's picture

I was reading the comments on this article chase, and I just wanted to ask a few questions.

The comment that caught my eye was the one where you were talking about how you can get girls as wives with phd's without having one yourself.

My questions are,

1. How do you know so much information about life/valuable knowledge and how to get out of sticky situations?

2. How do you get to display to these girls your authority, dominance, future potential, and strengths?
( How do you bring it up to them, or how do you just show them you have all of this? )

For these questions I have two scenarios. These refer to making a great living in life and trying to get girls with more money than you to marry you or have a relationship with.

1. Say If you get you bachelor's, but it's not a high paying major, it's just a degree to have a degree. What can I do with the degree to make good money and not suffer low income like they say? For example someone can't get a high paying degree because the school work is too difficult and they only can get a degree if they take the easier courses to get the lower paying degree. How can they find a way to make big bucks and date women with more money and education than him?

2. Say if a person doesn't graduate college and has no degree at all. How can that person make good money and get girls with more money and education than him?

Thanks Chase with all these great articles of knowledge and the feedback. It makes me a better man day by bay.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Balla-

Your experience meeting a girl in a nightclub sounds like a fine, typical learning experience. Just keep doing that and you'll get better at conversation and banter, and those awkward silences will happen less and less and eventually disappear altogether. I'd also recommend drinking less on nights you're going out to meet girls - a mild buzz is all you need (or no alcohol, if you have trouble controlling your consumption).

Re: when to get a number, shorter is generally better for asking girls out and taking phone numbers - aim for less than 10 minutes of talking; ideally somewhere between 4 and 7. That seems to be the sweet spot where you intrigue her enough that she's curious to meet you later, but don't spend so much time babbling on that you've killed much of her curiosity about you and deprived her of a reason to meet you again later.

As for what I know about life, I'm a guy who does a lot of things and pushes himself into having a lot of experiences, and I have a wide variety of friends similar to me in this way… I get to experience all kinds of things and learn from the experiences of my friends who are experiencing all kinds of things too, as well as plug into their circles and meet their friends and watch their relationships unfold. Actually showing your qualities to women are what I and other authors here have covered in any of a hundred different articles on the site; much of Girls Chase is in answer to the question, "How do you show women your value?"

If you want to make lots of money without a degree: learn a skill that's highly paid and in-demand, or highly useful in building something of your own.

All large sums of money (except for lottery money) come from having some skill set that you've developed to a high degree, and leveraged that:

  • Programming skills
  • Negotiation skills
  • Deal-making skills
  • Writing skills
  • Teaching skills
  • Marketing skills
  • Selling skills

... etc. The key lesson of money is "people pay for value."

If you want money, you must train hard to be able to create things that other people value enough that they will open their wallets to you to have, and then you must do a good job selling them on your value, since they often won't completely experience it until they already have it, which usually comes after they've paid you for it.

What do other people want, and what will they give you the big bucks for? Pick something, learn it to a high degree, and then go give it or perform it for them and get paid.

Chase

Gem's picture

Hey Chase,

Is there a particular way that game recognizing game works (i.e. guys skilled with women being able to sense other skilled guys)?

Sometimes i can see it very obviously that a guy knows what he is doing, but at other times (especially if the conversation is out of earshot or the people are far away) it's not as easy to judge. There are nuances and rules here I'm missing I figure.

-Gem

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Gem-

It tends to be that guys who are at a certain level of skill notice other guys who are within a certain degree of skill from where they are, be it somewhat higher than them or somewhat lower. If a man is substantially more skilled, it usually looks like "luck" or something similar to a man substantially less skilled than him, and thus his "game" tends to be invisible (I've repeatedly seen newer and even intermediate guys criticizing elite guys with extremely tight game as getting laid just because they "have muscles" or "are good looking", etc., when there are plenty of guys with bigger muscles or better looks who don't do nearly as well... but what those elite guys are doing is beyond what lower level guys can pick up on).

I think it mostly comes down to recognizing the other man executing on principles that you understand - if you're able to say, "Ah, *I* see what he's doing!" even if he's executing it at a level you haven't personally reached or didn't know was possible, you're able to recognize it and appreciate it. Conversely, a less skilled guy watching the same individual may not recognize anything he's doing because he's unfamiliar with the principles behind it and doesn't view it as "game".

That may also be why you can't tell with a guy out of earshot - sometimes you can pick up on nonverbal things a guy is doing if you notice them and you're familiar with them, but other times you just don't have enough information to go off of to be able to detect what's happening exactly between a given set of people and how skilled at seduction any one guy is or isn't.

Chase

Peacer's picture

Hi chase,

I would like to hear your opinion about this fact.

Are there any limitation of memory or something that brain can devote per a day for a someone who is willing to learn new skill or new subject... ?

I thought to ask you about this because, according to what I have read here so far, you seem to be really good at learning new things.

Yes, I have read your articles about time efficiency, 100 hour rule, the tactics you use, But I would like to know about this more from you experience and psychological science.

Is there any limit that human brain can devote to learn new thing, I mean per a day.. ? Is it something that based on person to person ?

Thank you.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Peacer-

The brain appears to be able to handle about 4 hours of intensive learning every day. A bit more if that's broken up with a nap in between (the brain processes learning and encodes it in your long-term memory banks during sleep, freeing up your short-term memory for more learning).

Basically, after 4 hours of intensive learning, you just get fried and fatigued and need to go sleep or otherwise unwind (playing video games, socializing, whatever does it for you).

Different kinds of learning stress the brain differently; so, for instance, if you're learning less intensively, you might be able to do 6 or 8 hours - depends on what you're learning and how you're learning it and how taxing on the brain that learning is.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Chase, I appreciate the time you put into these articles to make them so remarkable as well as the time that you put into replying and helping others out in the comment section. Once again, thanks for the effort. When having just finished a nice conversation after cold approaching a girl, what do you recommend in regards to closing? As in go for a hug/handshake/verbal/kiss etc ?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Kissing I wouldn't recommend as a close - see this article: "How to Kiss Girls in Public and Have It Go Great." Hugging I'd also completely skip doing until a girl is already your girlfriend; before then, it comes off far too "harmless" and platonic; you want her to see you as a dangerously sexual man, rather than as a cute, warm, huggable man. The exception might be if you've had a very playful, sexual interaction, and you're going to do something like grab one of her butt cheeks when hugging her - that'd be a rare exception, though.

Normally, you're best served with just a sly smile, maybe a wink, and a, "Talk to you again soon," or, "See you next time," to build a little intrigue and anticipation as you exit. You can take her hand and grasp it the same way you would as if you were going to bring her hand up to your mouth and kiss it, and give it a squeeze and let it go if you like too; but don't shake her hand like you've just concluded a business meeting, as that sets the wrong vibe on exiting. Grasp her fingers with your palm up and squeeze while bidding her farewell, or simply keep it verbal on your exit.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

What I am wondering is how to treat each of these women. Like you said, an independent woman can still turn submissive when with a dominant man, but does she want to feel that way? Do you treat a nice girl with more of a passive polarity type game making her feel like a dainty girl whereas with a bad girl you treat her with more active game like teasing, giving sexy smiles, and push pull type behavior? I think each type definitely responds more to certain kinds of game; it's easy to spot which women or soon to be women are the cougar types (the ones who respond more to the active game and like dating younger, less stable men)

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