Your Mental Model is Flawed | Girls Chase

Your Mental Model is Flawed

I've long been amused at people who tell you what you "should" do or "shouldn't" do. Occasionally I've been annoyed. Always I have challenged them back on these declarations, asking them

  • "Who decided that people should do this?"

  • "How did you come by this information?"

  • "How do you know with certainty that this is right, and others who believe the opposite are wrong?"

This tends to aggravate the individuals prone to moralizing and polarizing to no end. They become flustered and upset. Sometimes they will respond to you and tell you that you are being morally relativistic, and that moral relativism is wrong, because clearly there is a clear black and white, right and wrong, good and bad in the world.

mental model

When asked to explain why heroes to some are villains to others, and villains to some are heroes to others, they simply stutter, stretch, and eventually use blanket statements to cast entire civilizations of people as "wrong," never understanding that the members of the very civilization they call "wrong" would call them "wrong," too.

Rather than engage in lengthy, unending debates with these people these days, however, and spend precious time trying to convince those who are so certain their views are right that they are viewing things too closed-minded and too far to the extremes, I prefer now to just tell them one simple thing that cuts to the heart of the matter as best I know how:

Your mental model is flawed.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Comments

Knight's picture

Cheers for the read. Appreciate the time and effort, Chase.

Tritium's picture

I agree with the main points of this article, though I disagree with the idea that morality is entirely learned from childhood.

This idea runs contrary to scientific evidence that we are all born with certain "moral" conceptions, such as empathy. For example, even very young babies (too young to have "learned" morals) will attempt to aid others in experiments, such as by picking up and returning a dropped pen to a researcher. This goes a long way to explaining near-universal moral concepts around the globe, such as "don't murder each other."

The "blank slate" idea also seems to run contrary to many of the ideas on this site, in that denying the evolutionary nature of human morality is not in sync with the many other principles of evolutionary psychology that serve as cornerstone concepts (for example: that women have evolved to prefer socially dominant men).

But then, perhaps I've misunderstood what you wrote and rushed to judgement! ;)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Tritium,

I'm in full agreement that a lot of psychology is evolved, however I have serious doubts that morality is. You cite innate empathy as evidence of innate morality, but if we're being straight about it innate empathy is only evidence of innate empathy, not innate morality.

The numbers are rather striking, but approximately 4% to 5% of people are born without empathy. These individuals are normally referred to by the scary-sounding terms of sociopath and psychopath, but they aren't just serial killers - they're people all over our lives, often including some of the most charming, convincing, charismatic people we know. I've known quite a few people who are empathy-devoid. They're intelligent, high-functioning people, but they simply don't "get" what other people consider "innate morality," because they don't feel pain when others do and they're unable to put themselves in others' shoes. Psychopaths you can loosely define as people who take pleasure out of causing harm (physical, psychological, etc.) to others; sociopaths you can loosely define as people who don't care one way or another if they harm others (e.g., if they do something and it hurts you, they don't care; if they do something and it helps you, they also don't care).

If the theory that we have innate morality is correct, then simply missing empathy should not disable this - empathy is only one thing going into morality. But, when you remove empathy, instead of people acting morally because it's what "feels right" despite the lack of empathy, they only act morally inasmuch as it serves their logically decided-upon, self-interested objectives.

On a societal basis, sociopathic and psychopathic people are generally considered "amoral," while highly empathetic people tend to be considered "super moral." Personally, I rate very high in empathy, and I've had to work very hard to tamp down constant desires to spend all my time helping and saving and acquiescing to people... in a way, too much empathy is a handicap much as too little empathy is, though in a different way.

I think what you're defining as "moral" in your comment is really just empathy, rather than out-and-out morals (don't do this; do do this; etc.). The term "morals" is normally used to describe a set of explicitly spelled-out rules, like, "Don't kill," "Don't steal," "Don't rape," "Don't beat people up," etc. I'm highly skeptical of any theory that has to do with explicit rules being programmed into the brain.

I agree that empathy's innate and not really something that's subject to change or learning. I've spent a great deal of time trying to make my unempathetic friends empathetic, and failed every time. And I spent a lot of time trying to shed some of my empathy, but can only keep it at bay by crowding it out with busyness and louder thoughts.

For a very deep and well-researched (and well-cited!) look into the scientific research on morality's biological (or not) basis, see Prinz's "Is Morality Innate?"

Chase

EDIT: I just read through this comment and realized I didn't very clearly explain myself. The comment as it stands makes it sound like my view is that there are no morals without empathy, which would mean that morals ARE empathy, manifested, which is not my position. My position is, morals are learned, although empathy plays a part in how powerfully they are stuck to. But they can differ greatly depending on the environment one grows up in.

So, for instance, many children are programmed since early childhood that it is wrong to curse God or Alla or Yahweh or whomever. They carry this programming into adulthood, and believe it to the core. It's not innate, it's learned, though certainly influenced by empathy - the higher the empathy, the higher the individual will feel his given deity's "pain" when said deity is cursed.

Other examples are killing and rape. If you look at incidences of war, you'll see merciless killings and rape (often unrecorded or left out of the history books) that go far above the 4% or 5% you'd expect if morality was wholly a product of empathy and it's only the empathy-devoid engaging in these activities. Instead, what you're seeing is a result of othering and a learned morality from fellow troops that it's okay to kill these civilians or rape these women because they are less than human.

Property is another one. In peoples without a sense of ownership, you don't have a concept of theft, and even the most empathetic don't feel wrong taking things from others. In my time traveling in more collectivist cultures (and these are cultures that certainly DO have private property), I've spent plenty of time around very empathetic people who'd simply take things from me and use them themselves. This didn't seem amoral to them, although to most Americans this would be a grievous breach of personal space and tantamount to amoral theft. I often found it hard to stifle my own moral outrage and not get upset at having my food or belongings sampled or used, but this is how they do things and it isn't even a question of morality, disrespect, or anything else. In fact, if I spoke up, *I* would be viewed as the boorish and insensitive one, for not being so generous as to share the food in front of me or let others borrow my things.

One other example: in the Philippines, if a foreigner marries a Filipino woman, it's considered a moral obligation for that foreigner to support her entire extended family, since he makes more money than all of they do. To more Western foreigners, this is morally offensive, being asked and expected to support in-laws to this extent out of one's own paycheck. To Filipinos facing an in-law who refuses to do so, THIS is morally offensive, that this individual could be so selfish as to withhold his excess resources from family.

The list goes on...

Chase

Tritium's picture

Thanks for the in-depth reply Chase! You make it clear that we are talking about different things. I can definitely agree how what I would call "cultural" morality is shaped by mental models, as you pointed out.

I tend to connect empathy with morality because I am used to arguing with a number of religious individuals in my community who declare that society would descend immediately into anarchic chaos without religious morality. In response I argue that we would get on just fine, as natural human traits that encourage cooperation (at least within tribes) would still exist.

Nick's picture

Hey Chase,

Thank you for the writeup. These kinds of articles and the ones on fundamentals are my favorite.

I have a favor to ask; I have subscribed to your newsletter but have not obtained any letters or the E book "How to text Girls". Is there something else I need to do on my end? The box for the subscriptions in my profile has been checked for weeks but I have not received anything.

Also, I heard Ricardus had a language product that has just come out. What is the name of it because I am going for being trilingual as of right now.

Thanks again,
Nick

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Nick,

Sorry for the confusion on the newsletter... the newsletter option when you create an account is actually a relic of days gone by, and it isn't linked to the main newsletter autoresponder. For that, you'll need to signup on the form on the sidebar or at the bottom of one of the blog posts (or in the pop-up that shows up once a week). That'll get you on the autoresponder and start sending you the ebook / newsletters once you're confirmed.

As for Ricardus, his program's actually aimed at helping foreign speakers learn English, so it's not for general language-learning yet (and in fact, it's not even in English... you might not know it from his writing, but English is not Ricardus' native tongue). However, I know he was thinking about doing it in English for language learners to use his method to learn second or third languages at some point - I'll keep the site posted if he opens up his offerings to English speakers.

Chase

KING SINCERE ALLAH's picture

once again, excellent work Chase! this was one of the first things i somehow realized i had to do when i began to strengthen my fundamentals. learn why people do things. people not greeting me used to really get under my skin! i've been learning about sociology & pschology ever since. i call this "knowledge of self". most of the people i hangout with are different than me, or from different backgrounds. this may not be all good (i hang w/some questionable types), but the jury is still out!!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey King Sincere,

Absolutely - when stuff starts bugging you, you know you're not fully getting it (or resolving the problem if you do get it).

Hanging out with questionable people can be very educational, but you've got to keep an eye on yourself and stay out of bad situations, and you need to be calm but firm in turning down offers to get involved in things you know it's better not to get involved in. So long as you're able to manage that though, you can expand your mental model greatly to incorporate a lot of new viewpoints and strip away the fog of the unknown.

Chase

Vaughn's picture

This was a very long and insightful article. Had to look up quite a lot of words that I'm not too familiar with. Thanks for the vocab help haha.
Quick question though.... When you talked about a girl rejecting you because you didn't give her value.

1. How do you find out what you could do to give her the value she wants without asking? Or are you suppose to ask and give it? (wouldn't that be like supplicating?)

2. How do you give value without providing too much.

3. How do you not supplicate while giving value?

4. How do you give value? And what value do you recommend to give if we're not lovers?

5. If someone cuts you in line and they're not cooperating, what should you do?

Thank you!!!!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Vaughn,

For finding out what women value, check out this article, all on a technique called exactly that - eliciting values:

What Does She Want? The 8 Things You Must Ask Her

After that, it's a balance of being valuable, but not too valuable - see these:

... for a lot on not overproviding value. And I'm sure you've seen the stuff on the Law of Least Effort and sprezzatura for maintaining a visibly effortless appearance.

On cutting in line, when someone first cuts in line you want to very firmly (not hard, but firm) place your hand on the person's shoulder, and give a nice-but-firm smile and gesture to the line (you can wave your hand back and forth, pointing out the line). This is typically enough for most people to move.

If the person doesn't get the hint, say, "Excuse me, there's a line."

If he still won't move, you need to call out to the person who's responsible for the line - a cashier at a shop or fast food joint, or a doorman at a bar or nightclub, for instance - and say, "Uh, hello? Hi, we've all been waiting in line here, but this gentleman's cut in line - I'm not sure what to do. Should we walk around him or what?"

At that point, you make the guy the worker's problem - most cashiers / doormen will say, "Sir, you have to go to the back of the line, please," and they won't serve the guy unless he does.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Chase very nice post.I wanted to know if kissing girls on their cheek whether they are your friend or lover is appropriate. many thanks.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

Not totally sure what you mean by "appropriate," but let's say you mean it's something that you want to do?

If the girl's your lover, it's a little patronizing, so I'd advise against that. However, if she's your friend, or a girl you're on a date with, kissing her on the cheek can be a nice way of establishing some dominance while also upping the sexual tension simultaneously - so, in those instances, I'd say kiss away!

Chase

studentofthegame's picture

Chase when you first started making friends of all people weren't you afraid of being asked to smoke and do things you didn't want?oh yeah and did go your high school prom?just wondering

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Student,

Yes, absolutely, that was a fear. What I found was that the first few times you say "no" to people asking you to do things in "peer pressure" situations, it's pretty tough, but after that, it gets a lot easier, and you can even get a certain amount of pride out of being able to hang with a group of people and be cool and accepted with them while not partaking in everything they do.

The only ones I'd advise you to be careful of are people doing more dangerous things, like hard drugs or committing felonies (selling drugs, weapons, stealing cars, etc.). If you're not absolutely certain your powers of resisting peer pressure are all there yet, I'd avoid having these types of friends until they are.

And, high school prom, no... I went for a long drive that night instead.

Chase

Hunter - Fox21296's picture

Chase, this article really vibed with me. The whole notion of checking one's mental processing is something I value, so I got another tool from this article!

After minutes of pondering, I finally realized what questions I have from this article.

Your mercenary friend that burns bridges down, he likely doesn't view the whole process as a concrete "I'm afraid this person will screw me over, so I will just beat him to the punch". It's likely there in his head but it gets fuzzier overtime the more he does to where it's just on autopilot. So to him, it's a natural response that others view as bad.

So there we have a clash of point of view, he views it as normal behavior and others view burning bridges as a bad thing. So my question is:

When do you follow others point of view and when do you deem others point of view as incorrect? What indicates it is time to change to what others are saying?

I feel this is a very big part of life. When I was in 8th grade I was extremely confident, had pep in my step, had a positive outlook on everything and made sure to be nice to everybody I came into contact with. But I kept getting comments that I was arrogant. It puzzled me!

There I was having a good time and making sure others were having fun and people were calling me arrogant. I chose to just ignore the comments.

It was fine at first, but then I started getting harder and harder comments, and my ex girlfriend led the force to hammer it into my head that I was an arrogant punk that nobody wants to be around.

I finally gave in to the point of view and I haven't really felt the same since. It feels almost like every time I feel good somebody tries to bring me down. I think this may be victim mentality talking or just selective thinking of me picking out the bad parts, but even just two days ago I was feeling good and I complimented others and even a guy I complimented said "You're too confident... I don't know if that's a good thing Hunter".

So it's kind of hammered into my head that if I'm feeling super good others aren't going to like me, which explains why when I have a good day at the end of the day I feel anxious about how everybody else took my behavior, because it's linked mentally that when I'm feeling good about myself I get negative feedback.

I want to break this mindset but I don't know how. And I'm sure other men have this where they think they're doing one thing, and others say that's wrong, and they either give in to the opposing frame or keep doing the behavior, without knowing if the original behavior was correct or not. Chase, I feel that your insight would shed some seriously needed light on the subject and help tons of men in the process!

Thanks man, your articles inspire beneficial deep thinking.

Hunter - Fox21296

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Hunter,

That’s a good question. I think any time you get people telling you something over and over again, you need to stop and ask yourself why it is that people are reacting to you this way. If the only answer you can come up with is, “Because people are all stupid!” or, “Because I’m a victim!” then you don’t understand it.

However, there are times people will react to things they don’t understand in improper ways. For instance, you might say, “I’m going to start a new business doing X,” and everyone around you tells you, “Oh, that’s a terrible idea!” But if these people don’t have experience starting businesses and haven’t studied the market or the niche like you have, you need to take their input with a big grain of salt.

Getting called “confident” or “arrogant” isn’t necessarily bad. I get called these by women I sleep with, and by people who hold me in high regard. The only thing you want to monitor on those comments is if you’re coming off so arrogant that it’s off-putting to others. If it isn’t – if it’s rather charming instead – then it certainly isn’t something you want to adjust.

If you’re not sure how to take a remark, ask for clarification. So, someone says, “You’re kind of arrogant, huh?” ask, “Is that a good thing or a bad thing?”

Then – and this is important – ask multiple people.

Some people believe it’s better to be timid and keep your head down, and they’ll tell you it isn’t good to be too confident. If you go based off of one or two people’s opinions, you’ll probably get poor advice.

So, go around and ask people (especially people who know you well), “Hey, I’ve had people telling me I’m arrogant lately. I’m not sure if this means I’m being annoying or off-putting, or if I’m kind of cocky and it’s actually appealing, or what. What do you think? Am I an asshole, do I need to tone it down, am I James Bond-confident, or what?”

That way, you’ll get some data you can work with, and use to adjust (if needed… it might not be).

Chase

Matt's picture

Can you explain cut off marks (ie, cutting off contact with a girl... say if she doesn't sleep with you or is not responding well) in more detail? You've talked about that before in several posts, how now if a girl does not sleep with you on the first date, you usually end things with her and are not going to up forth the effort because you have many other options. Do you just delete her number? Richardus talks about keeping "bad" numbers and then firing off texts to all of them in the future and see who bites. What's your opinion?

Maybe a more nuanced guide of cut off marks for every level (beginner, intermediate, advanced) would be helpful. Also I'm a little confused about how persistance seems to contradict this. Hopefully I've made some sense!

Matt

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Matt,

Sure, I can write something about this. You're right, I suppose it's a sufficiently alien view from how most men treat women they meet (e.g., chase her until you get her, or things go completely to hell, or you get another girlfriend... even then, maybe still chase her a bit!).

Meanwhile, I don't normally delete numbers, unless I'm going through my phone and clearing out people I don't recognize or am not in contact with anymore. As far as pinging is concerned, I might occasionally ping women who were being "difficult" to get somewhere with, but I tend to have a pretty good idea about where I am with each girl, and if I've dropped her or cut contact with her it's usually for a good reason, and I won't follow up with her (unless she resurfaces and gives chase).

Anyway, I'll do a post on it.

Chase

Jason's picture

Hi Chase!

Thanks for this article! It makes a lot of sense and it made me rethink a lot of things. One thing I thought about was how I would sometimes cut off contact from girls in cases where they lose interest or where they reject you when you ask them out. In cases where you cut off contact, do you even wish them happy birthday on facebook? Would that have the effect of rejogging their memories of you in a very subtle way? Thanks!!

Mike's picture

Wishing girls (or anyone for that matter) HBD on Facebook is not productive at all. You'll be just like the 200 other orbiters she's got on FB competing for her attention.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Jason-

Per Matt's request above, I'll get a post on cutting contact up to make my thoughts on handling that situation clearer.

Re: happy birthday... Mike's right on the money. The instant you do that, she gets a feeling of, "Ha! Gotcha!" and you're chasing after her, right in the same pile with every other guy chasing after her and wishing her happy birthday. If you're going to cut contact, then cut contact, and only get back in touch if you're doing so on your terms for your reasons, and not because it's her birthday or a holiday or something like that (which gets seen as a lame excuse to go back on your contact-cutting and try to "sneak" back in... just like every other guy who cut contact with her and then tried sneaking back in).

If you're cutting her off, just ignore her Facebook entirely. Otherwise, she knows you're monitoring it - not exactly the act of moving on that cutting someone off is supposed to communicate.

Chase

Doobie doo's picture

Hey chase, thanks or ur advice the last time. 
Anyway today I just tried to chat up a girl for the first time, and in public transport.
 In retrospect I failed to move past small talk and I wasn't smooth. Also, I creeped her out. 
We were standing face to face. And when the train came to a stop I moved to stand at her right. 
Me: excuse me
Her: *looks at me with fear and stares*
me: I can't help but notice your headphones are really special. (they were)
And then she just stares apprehensively and I wonder if she doesn't understand English. 
Me: did u get them here or overseas?
Her: my...friend got them overseas for me.
Me: where?
Her: the US. 
Me: u ever been to the us?
Her: no. 
Then I see that she holds a textbook and asks if she's on her way to school. Then she just ignores me and looks away. And soon she just moves to another part of the train. 
While this means I have to continue practicing deep diving, I have another problem, how do I put someone at ease and not come across as unsettling, especially in a place where pick ups are not common? Thanks. 

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Doobie-

On not being creepy, check this article out:

How to Not be the Creepy Guy

Also, quick note on your direct opener - props on using one of those, but make sure you keep it to something specific about the girl herself. I know it feels "safer" to compliment her on something she has on her person (a handbag, earrings, a shirt, etc.), but it also feels much weaker and odder to the girl than if you compliment her directly (e.g., she KNOWS it's HER you're interested in... not her headphones. So it seems like you're dancing around what you want to do / say / hiding your banana [see here on that last reference: "How to Use Indirect Game to Get Girls"]).

See this post on using direct openers:

Book Excerpts: The Direct Opener

... and stick to complimenting her on something intrinsic to her person (her hair, her sense of style, her walk, her smile, etc.). Your openers will perform much more strongly this way.

Chase

The M's picture

Hey Chase,

Speaking of expensive cologne...is it worth the investment? Right now my only scent is my deodorant, lol.

You mentioned not saying that you're a nerd until after dating a couple months. While I don't think I could do that (no way I can hide my books!), I understand where you're coming from. What do you think is the best way to present my nerdy career so that it enhances, rather than detracts from, my developing sexy persona? (Also, if the girl is a nerd, too, does anything change?)

And I suppose that leaves one more question: do scents and nerds go together? Well, I guess scents and sexy nerds go together!

Best,
M

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey M,

On scents, that one's a weird topic without a lot of "do this for sure, and definitely don't do that" advice out there. There's varying research, and a bunch of different opinions.

I'd actually like to do a post on it, now that you mention it. It's such a weird and varying topic that it'd be good to write on.

For now, I'd say the best thing to do if you want to use cologne (I did for quite a while) is to try different colognes that women tell you they like, and see which ones get you the most compliments, as different colognes match differently with different men's body chemistries. For me, I found that Cool Water by Davidoff got me a lot of compliments... I hated the smell, but women seemed to love it on me. Eventually I found Very Sexy for Men by Victoria's Secret, and that one netted me even more compliments and I actually liked it. CK One was another scent I had some good luck with personally, although Very Sexy for Men became my favorite and default scent.

On presenting a nerdy career, I'd just mention it in passing. I never much go into my career with women... it's just not a very interesting topic. The past few girlfriends I've had never ever really knew what I did for money much of the time. Typically, I'd advise just talking to her about the feature of the job ("I help people figure out their business systems and save them time and money") rather than the job title, and then move on to more interesting things.

And scents and nerds... well, you'll just have to experiment ;)

Chase

Franco's picture

This is completely trivial. The cologne industry rips off men very easily by displaying their expensive products through campaigns marketed by "men in tuxedos with fancy cars."

Do you want to know what I wear out on a regular basis and get women complimenting me on all the time? Aqua Velva. It's not even cologne -- it's a $5 after-shave product.

Definitely save the big bucks for clothes and accessories. If you really want to know what scent women enjoy the most, go for something that smells "shower-clean and fresh." I've had by FAR the best results with anything that smells this way.

Cheers,

Franco

Mikel 's picture

Chase I may be wrong but what I sort of am getting that you say is that our goodness and humanity is just a "function" or "invention" which I is disturbing really. What I'm trying to say could basically be summed up in one example, elephants.

Elephants despite not being as smart or developed as we are, have emotions, the best example of this is how they hold funerals for their dead. From there one can see how if they do that, we as human beings must have developed our morals and definitions of "good" and "evil" from somewhere, sure different cultures have different ways of being, but we are all human and we all came from the same place, and even though different cultures around the world really are different (as in your examples) many share the same basic rules (no killing,raping,hurting others etc.) I got kind of lost in my own words but my point is that morality, good and evil, wherever they come from be it genetics, divine creation, etc. exist for a bigger reason than as just a "biological function"

PS. I may be misunderstanding you Chase, the thing is that in many of your previous articles sometimes I would misunderstand you because from my point of view you use very "strong" wording but whenever my doubt is too strong to leave be and I give you my point of view and present any doubts to and you respond you answer my questions clearly and prove to me that I am right (as in that I sometimes misunderstand you)

sorry if my writing isn't clear it's 4 am where I am so yeah haha.. anyways thanks for reading this and I hope you respond soon

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Mikel,

Actually, I think you're largely correct in your understanding of my meaning.

Personally, I'd be pretty horrified to learn that, say, a Christian crusader's morals of killing Arabs being good, and an Arabic Muslim jihadist's morals of killing Christians being good, were both inspired from some higher source that wants each sect to go massacre the other for the good of mankind. People tend to morally justify whatever it is they're doing, and you can find some terrible things getting morally justified (from some pedophiles feeling that what they do is "harmless," to rapists believing that their victims - women and men - actually like being raped, to town-wide lynch mobs justifying their jury-less murders of guilty and innocent alike as "doing the right thing," etc.).

The thing that is inborn, however, is empathy, and 95% of the population has some degree of that to another. Empathy puts a lot of the brakes on human savagery, and when you feel "disturbed" at the idea of morality not being inborn, that's actually your empathy kicking in - fearing that morality that isn't inborn will lead to widespread suffering. But the fact is, the world already is the way it is, and realizing it is one way will no more change things than realizing that the Earth was spherical and not flat changed gravity for anyone when this was first understood.

Personally, my belief is, if you could completely discard "morals" and instead instill everyone on Earth with a deeply felt sense of universal empathy (i.e., no ability to partake in othering), the worst atrocities of humankind would completely disappear. Until then, there will probably be people out there who will feel that, no matter who you are or what you believe in, it is morally right (due to cultural conditioning) to kill you and wipe you off the face of the Earth because your beliefs are different from theirs, without taking half an instant to bring empathy into the picture and wonder how that'd make you and the people who care about you feel.

I'd trade morality for empathy any day of the week.

Chase

Lu's picture

Chase, I like your analysis of how there is no black and white between what is good and what is evil, because both are seen in different lights by separate cultures, societies, and individuals.

However, do you think having this "black and white" mentality is good for other areas, such as leadership? I feel like in moving your interactions forward with women, or in business, you're either going to do something, or you aren't. A gray area when it comes to leading, I believe, would be a sign of indecisiveness.

A response on how you have become a leader, not just with women but in all areas would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lu-

Actually, yes - you hit a nail on the head here. There are times when black and white thinking is absolutely necessary, and leadership / competition / fighting an enemy / struggling toward a goal / trying to bed a girl are all situations in which it's a helpful adaptation.

Black and white thinking is most useful for winning. In fact, you can even say I'm guilty of it in this article - I'm telling people that black and white thinking is absolutely WRONG, and the gray zone is where it's at.

If you want to win an argument, or successfully persuade someone, or lead people in inspiring ways, you usually need to tap into black and white.

Anyway, it's a great topic, and a nice contrast to this one... I'll jot it down for a post sometime soon.

Chase

Some Angry Guy's picture

I'll just throw in some quick context: I'm a conservative guy, living in a very liberal city. If I wasn't able to accept opposing mental frames, my mind would have detonated by now. Also, despite the majority of my friends being atheists, I'm a religious person myself.

Now, to get to my point, if you can accuse a religious person for having an incorret mental frame, then I can do the same to you. Because there is evidence to back up both sides (early manogamy in Mesopotamia vs the example you highlighted), neither side can EVER logically trump the other. A skilled debater would, instead of struggling and stuttering, would simply throw your statement right back at you, because neither of us can prove that our mental frames are the "right" mental frame. Granted, though, most skilled debaters have mental adaptability to significant levels.

While I understand that this post is rather old, I'd still love to see a reply. Why? Because I think that this is a constructive post.

Now, if you dislike people telling you that you shouldn't (or should) do things, then hear this: you shouldn't tell people their mental frames are flawed. To tell someone else they have a flawed aspect is to imply (albiet unintentionally, at times) that you have an unflawed version.

Shouldn't you just tell them that they are incapable of looking outside their mental frame?

I.G.'s picture

I'm sure there is no simple answer, but how do friendships with other men work? I want to be dominant, but I don't want to ruin opportunities to become even more dominant by being a dick.
Throughout my post-elementary-school social life I've either been the undeniable runt or the undeniable top dog, or often I've ditched being social altogether and tried to be a lone wolf. I haven't been a peer to another man in a long time.
How do I walk the middle ground?

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