You’re Not That Special (and Neither is She)


One of the things you don't start picking up on until you've spent much time out of the West, then rotated back into it, then out of it, then into it again, is the "epidemic of specialness" the West has going on.

When you visit Asia, some parts of South America, and some parts of central or Eastern Europe, for instance, most of the people you meet will describe themselves as "just an average [nationality] girl/guy."

Part of this is humility - everybody believes he's special to some degree - but part of it is just down-to-Earth honest-to-goodness realistic-ness. The guy knows he's just another human being, and merely one of very many.

But travel back to the West, and you're quickly smacked in the face with the order of the day here: that is, everyone is special.

you're not special

Not just special, but unique. And, deserving of your utmost adoration, and respect.

Only, because we're not all that special or unique, a great many people in the West are living in a constant state of vast cognitive dissonance, ready to explode at a moment's notice as soon as anyone suggests they are not as special as they'd like you to think they are.

They're living a lie - an illusion - and the only way that illusion is maintained is if they can make everybody else around them subscribe to it, too.

And if anybody around them doesn't... well, look out.

I'll explain.


you're not special

Quick, name somebody really special. Historically special.

Ready for an alarming wakeup call?

That definition of "specialness" is purely subjective, and has very little basis in objective reality. Take a removed-enough viewpoint, and all the most "special" people in history, even, quickly become rather ordinary.

If you read the Harvard Business Review's "The Making of an Expert" (or the book based on it, Geoff Colvin's Talent is Overrated), you quickly come to realize how much individuals of seemingly mythic talent are really rather ordinary men with the good fortune of having been born into extraordinary training programs.

A pair of teachers with no particular chess skill trained their three daughters into three of the top chess players in the world, largely just to prove a point: that talent is taught:

  • Tiger Woods became a legendary golfer not because he was a born talent, but because his father trained him rigorously in golf from the age of 2.

  • Michael Jackson became a legendary singer and performer not because he was a born talent, but because his father trained him rigorously in song and dance from a very young age.

  • Mozart became a legendary pianist not because he was a born talent, but because, again, his father trained him rigorously in piano from a very young age.

  • Even Alexander the Great, that conqueror of conquerors, was not a legendary leader and statesman because he was born that way; rather, he was trained in commanding armies since he was a child by his father, Philip II of Macedon, and was leading armies alone by the age of 15; he had at his disposal the innovative Greek hoplites and phalanx, the most devastating soldiers and military formation in the ancient world; he was schooled by none other than Aristotle himself; and even his mother bred him for greatness, steering and directing him, and having assassinated those of his siblings by other wives of Philip whom she viewed as possible threats to his ascension to the throne (though he never forgave her for this, it certainly helped ensure his rise).

Take any man, and replace Woods, Jackson, Mozart, or Alexander with that man, and leave all the rigorous and thorough training itself in place, and would that other man not attain greatness as well?

Certainly, there are individual differences - another man raised similarly to Alexander might never have left Greece, content to rule in that region.

But perhaps another still would have approached the morale of his men even better, and have been able to push all the way through India and into China, instead of having had to turn back midway through the Indian subcontinent as Alexander had.


Commodities

Have you ever been somewhere with lots of beautiful girls?

Or, flipped through the pictures on a Tumblr page dedicated to putting up images of attractive women?

There are tons and tons and tons of them... each with her own name, each with her own story, each with her own dreams and background and experiences and aspirations.

But, taken in the grand scale of things, together they are more or less commodities.

You will never meet two women who are exactly alike. It's true; each one is different.

Yet, the role that one woman satisfies in your life will not be too different from the next one, or the one after her, or the one after her.

That's because women are commodities. And so are you and I.

you're not special

When I was relatively inexperienced with women, I overestimated the impact I was having on the lives of women I brought into mine. I certainly impacted them, and they certainly fell in love with me, yes; and the ones I kept around in some long-term capacity did indeed tend to view me as a person of unique significance to them. Nevertheless, when our relationships ended, I was easily replaced. Not by someone who was a perfect replica of me (though I have had past girlfriends tell me they'd found a guy who was "like your clone"), but by someone who fulfilled the role I'd fulfilled for the girl satisfactorily enough.

And I've seen this same pattern repeat itself among the breakups of every pair of humans I've witnessed; there are various mourning periods for the various partners (men's are typically longer), but eventually, both partners have replaced the former partner, and have blissfully and happily moved on.

We men are commodities, my friends; and the women we date and lust after and chase down are commodities themselves, as well.


What Makes You Special?

If you watch old Hollywood flicks, it's pretty clear that Americans didn't used to think of themselves as individuals who were much more special than anybody else.

Sure, they had their own quirks and differences, and they'd be happy to tell you about them: "I'm not like the other girls, Stan... are you sure you want me?"

... but at no point do most of them ever display an ounce of thinking that they are better than or superior to their fellow men (or women).

Take a gander at people in the West (and particularly in English-speaking countries), and there is a very distinct sense of "I'm not like all the other rabble out here... I'm different... better."

That feeling of "betterness" is the biggest difference between the way things used to be and the way they are right now. And you can see how it affects life and dialogue in a variety of negative ways:

  • Politeness is out and rudeness is in - if someone doesn't give you the honor you deserve, or is not worthy of your kindness, it's fine to trash the person or call him out

  • Entitlement mentalities are completely rampant - everybody feels entitled to whatever else he or she thinks he or she "deserves": money, mates, romantic partners, friends, clothes, vacations, respect. Rather than earn it, people want to just be given it - and not just any old time - they want to be given it on demand

  • Social ostracism is being used as a weapon to employ on anyone who doesn't subscribe completely to your beliefs - rather than try and understand others, people throw them under the bus and undermine their social status with ad hominem attacks and personal discrediting to shield themselves from threatening alien beliefs

  • Auto-rejection, among both men and women, is everywhere, and most people seem to be on hairpin triggers. One tiny wrong move, and they erupt into seething hatred against you, for your ceasing to recognize and respond to their greatness

All of this is stuff you almost never see in old movies - or in Asia and those more civil, humble parts of South America and Europe. Why the difference?

I'm pretty sure it all has to do with advertising. And that's largely it. Advertising is everywhere in the West; meanwhile, its history in Asia, South America, and Central/Eastern Europe is far shorter.

The advertising in the West tells us that we are perfect, and deserve to have [xyz thing we want] - we just need to do / buy this one thing.

Over the years, parents have picked up on this message, and fed it to their children: "You're PERFECT. You deserve THE BEST."

But if you deserve the best, that means something pretty important - because by its very definition, "the best" is the cream of the crop among a number of lesser things.

And not everyone can have "the best", obviously. Probably only a select few, in fact.

And if YOU are ONE of the people who gets to have "the best", then you must necessarily BE one of "the best" YOURSELF... and, therefore, BETTER than almost everybody else.

Of course, if everyone is raised to believe that he or she is better than almost everybody else, you suddenly have yourself in a bit of a quagmire: because, pretty soon, those people are going to have to interact with one another... and they're going to have to deal with the fact that, in all likelihood, they are NOT the best.


“I Don’t Believe It”

If you think people getting out there into the real world and confronting a world full of individuals believing they are all "the best", just like those people themselves do, will disabuse them of these superiority complexes, think again.

Just like religion in the face of science, people don't drop their beliefs simply because they've encountered evidence that invalidates specific parts of those belief systems; they simply revise them.

So, okay, Timmy gets to college and realizes he's not "the best" at getting good grades anymore, like he was (just about) in high school. That's fine, because he still does pretty well, AND he's [super cool / a great athlete / really funny / other source of specialness]. That PLUS still pretty good grades (even if not the absolute top of his class)? He's clearly still among "the best."

And, all right, Annemarie makes it out into the workforce, only to discover that some of her colleagues are just way more motivated to work and dedicated to self-promotion in their careers than she is... and they get promoted significantly faster, and go from colleagues to superiors to regional managers all while she's been stuck at the same level. Well, that isn't because they are better, she knows; she's still better... they just spend more time marketing themselves. Their "betterness" is nothing but an illusion they've constructed by being smooth talkers that they used to trick the bosses into giving them raises... the bastards.

In the face of contradictory evidence, most people do not discard their beliefs; they simply revise them to include the evidence. In the paper "When Corrections Fail: The Persistence of Political Misperceptions", published in Political Behavior, researchers note the following phenomena where individuals were corrected on a belief immediately after being given that belief (in a false / mock / misleading news article):

An extensive literature addresses citizen ignorance, but very little research focuses on misperceptions. Can these false or unsubstantiated beliefs about politics be corrected? Previous studies have not tested the efficacy of corrections in a realistic format. We conducted four experiments in which subjects read mock news articles that included either a misleading claim from a politician, or a misleading claim and a correction. Results indicate that corrections frequently fail to reduce misperceptions among the targeted ideological group. We also document several instances of a “backfire effect” in which corrections actually increase misperceptions among the group in question.

That is to say:

  • Much of the time, immediately correcting an incorrect claim with a correction does not work, and the incorrect claim is clung to regardless

  • Some of the time, correcting an incorrect claim even causes individuals to cling even more strongly to their beliefs

There's also been a great deal of research into cognitive dissonance caused by disconfirmation of a belief - most often centered around religious prophecies that fail to materialize, and the counterintuitive effect they have on actually increasing disciples' adherence to the religion, rather than disillusioning them.

The first of these studies was Festinger's heavily cited 1956 paper "When Prophecy Fails" (almost 1800 citations to-date, which is quite high for scientific literature), of which there's been extensive research and refinement done over the past 6 decades, both to support it and refute it.

But it does seem that, at least in some of the cases (as this meta-study published in The Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions goes on to investigate), and particularly with hardcore believers in a thing, disconfirmation makes people believe in their beliefs even more strongly.

So if you think someone's staunchly held house of cards belief that he or she is among "the best" will come crashing down as soon as he or she encounters the harsh real world filled with legions of other people who all consider themselves "the best", who all mostly treat him or her as little more than just another commodity... you've frequently got another thing coming.

The cards won't crash. They'll just be repositioned.


you're not special

However... people aren't stupid.

I notice a lot of men in the West complaining about the treatment they get from Western women. It's really a fascinating study of cognitive dissonances clashing, when you boil it all down.

Here's what you've got, cooking in the pot:

  • A man who thinks he's "the best", approaching a woman he expects ought to be lucky just to meet a great guy like him

  • A woman who thinks she's "the best", being approached by a man who then proceeds to treat her like just another woman he wants to sleep with

  • The woman, experiencing cognitive dissonance at believing herself to be "special", but feeling treated by this man like just another commodity, reacts viscerally and from a wounded place of dissonance, rejecting him harshly for not realizing how incredible she is, and making herself feel better in auto-rejection by comforting herself that she is so desired she gets to be the chooser and rejecter of men... now this man must go off and lick his wounds and obsess over this special woman he wants but cannot have

  • The man, experiencing cognitive dissonance at believing himself to be "special", but feeling treated by this woman like just another commodity, reacts viscerally and from a wounded place of dissonance, auto-rejecting her in his mind (or maybe even snapping back to her aloud) harshly for not realizing how incredible he is, and making himself feel better in auto-rejection by comforting himself that he is very desired, so this woman must be stupid, shallow, slutty, or all of the above... she will doubtless end up with some low caliber man, and one day will be alone and regretting the day she turned down a man as wonderful as himself

... and then you end up with a whole bunch of upset people, bitter about the opposite sex, and annoyed out of their skulls with one another.

It's really quite amusing to watch, all the angry men whining about women, and all the angry women whining about men. Everyone is so certain that no one else "gets" it.

And the "it" they don't get?

That each of these people are really, really special... in fact, they are "the best"!

And treating them like anything short of the top 1% of humanity is an absolute insult.

But lecturing others about the right way to treat you is not how you get the results you want.

Instead, making them feel special is.


It’s About Her – Not You

When I first came up with deep diving, it was constructed as a way for me to let women connect to me without me blowing them out and sending them into auto-rejecting (or, alternately, by boring them) by talking up my own value too much.

One of the side effects of deep diving, that I didn't fully realize at the time, but now do, was that it allows women to tell you what's so special about them, and helps them to feel like you are one of the few people on Earth who actually really appreciates them for them.

Which, if you are genuinely interested in what she's telling you, and you're doing a good job of eliciting values and really diving into her dreams and motivations, you almost certainly will.

Using a cookie cutter approach with cookie cutter pickup lines and cookie cutter routines doesn't work so swell for any woman, but it's particularly difficult to pull off with Western women. When you don't personalize things and customize them to the girl, she's usually left feeling like she's just another piece of tail to you.

Now, with women who don't care so much about being seen as "special" or "unique", this doesn't matter, if they are themselves out looking for something fun and free as well.

Yet, even with Western women who are out to hook up, if you fail to make the interaction feel personal to them, you can easily have them take offense and leave. In this case, ego needs outweigh sexual desires - and if you don't tend to the ego, you lose.

Deep diving isn't the only way to personalize your interactions: great eye contact, large amounts of touch, and closeness / inside jokes / a sense of secrecy can create this effect as well.

The point is, she must feel like the relationship is deeply personal, and that you chose her because you RECOGNIZE that she is the best.

Telling her "you're the best" or "you're special" or "you're unique" is not enough (and often will backfire), because, again, these statements themselves are one-size-fits-all statements that you can just reel off to any girl you're talking with.

You must make her feel it.

Her reception of you, reaction to you, and acceptance of or rejection of you is not really about you at all - it's about how you make her feel.


She’s Not a Commodity

Trust in the West is at a record low. Americans' trust in one another has declined by a full third since 1972, when 50% of Americans said most people could be trusted.

Today, a mere 33% believe that most people can be trusted, according to a poll conducted by AP-GfK.

It's difficult to pinpoint exact causes for something like this, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd wager that at least part of it comes from the expectations that people are being set up by their parents and the media to have ("You are the best!") vs. the treatment they actually get out in the real world by salespeople, customer service, bosses, colleagues, classmates, teachers, friends, and prospective mates ("You're just another guy/gal").

If there's anything that can cause you to lose faith in people, it's not having them recognize and appreciate the positive things about you that you know are true.

Therefore, a large part of seduction ends up becoming how you show a woman that she is not a complete commodity to you. Rather, you recognize and appreciate what is special and unique about her - because there always is something special and unique about everybody.

Even if, in reality, we all really are more or less commodities to one another.


… But She’s Got to Show You She Isn’t

The other large part of seduction though is in getting the girl to show you she isn't a commodity.

That is, you show interest in her, and show her you recognize some really interesting, unique things about her. You give her a little - you show her that, unlike all those other guys who will pay lip service to her specialness, then chase her down the same as they do EVERY woman (all those more "average" women out there), you are different.

Instead, you recognize her uniqueness... then don't chase her down.

This drives women absolutely bananas.

you're not special

Here is a man who FINALLY recognizes her unique specialness. He:

  • Deep dives her and really gets to find out what's unique about her
  • Stares into her eyes as if he's peering directly into her soul
  • Touches her in ways that excite her and make her feel deeply connected with him
  • Talks to her in a voice that is low, intimate, and dripping with meaning
  • Exudes sexual energy around her that is contagious for her and makes her feel like the two of them are destined for one another

... all that, and then he doesn't chase.

Instantly, you have differentiated yourself from all those commodities of men out there. You are that rare soul capable of recognizing the specialness she knows she has. Because this is something she wants, but doesn't have - most men try to make her feel special, but only end up making her feel cheap and commoditized - she will pursue you to make sure she doesn't lose it.


Desperate for Proof

Many of us in the West are desperate for validation of the fact that yes, we are special. We are unique. We are "the best."

We were told growing up that we were. But the reception we get once we make it out into the real world is entirely different. The real world treats us like commodities.

The man who can inspire other people to feel like not commodities... who can recognize the specialness in them, and make them feel something they've largely lost the feeling of that they had in childhood, and now spend their free time chasing after from purchasing those products that are supposed to give them the feeling they deserve, or trying to get the promotion that will bring the recognition of their specialness they know must be around the next corner... that man has a power over them that little else ever will, because that man is the provider of the emotion that people raised to believe they are "the best" need to allay the dissonance they feel, inhabiting a world that does not treat them the way it is "supposed to" (according to the mental models they've been raised with and indoctrinated with).

This desperation to have you in their lives is something you see with both women and men once you get good at making people feel special quickly and intimately. You become one of the few people who recognizes their uniqueness, and gives them a level of emotional excitement and reassurance that all the other things they've been chasing after have failed to give them.

You will actually begin to see signs of desperation from women who earlier acted aloof toward you, but whose dispositions change radically once they realize what you do for them emotionally. You validate their "bestness." You show them the reflection of themselves they spend most of their lives working to see.

This is both encouraging and sad, and even as the "specialness epidemic" is most prevalent in the West, you see it to some degree with everyone everywhere... everyone likes feeling special, even if she's someone who doesn't usually believe that she is.

But, very, very few people ever learn how to make others feel special.

They're far too caught up in trying to feel special themselves.

We are all so very desperate for proof of our own specialness, and position among "the best."


Being a True Validator

There are many forms of validation a man can give a woman:

  • He can be an orbiter - a man who inhabits her friend zone, wishing to be with her, and making her feel good about herself, confident in the knowledge that a man wants her... but not fully confident, because he is not a man she wants (elsewise she would be with him, rather than friend zoning him). This man validates her somewhat as a person and as a sexual being, but not fully - his validation is less powerful than were it coming from a more powerful, desirable man than himself

  • He can be a legitimate friend, who builds up her value and speaks and thinks well of her, while not trying or aiming to sleep with her - here, he validates her differently than an orbiter does, validating her value as a person more highly, but not doing much to validate her as a mate

  • Or, he can be the lover, who sees her for the beautiful person she is and desires her and takes her as a mate, and whom she values equally highly herself, and feels wholly validated by on having taken as her lover and having him having taken her

Alternately, he can be the guy who one-size-fits-all approaches her and sends her hurtling into cognitive dissonance, gets rejected, and ends up in dissonance himself.

The one you want to be, obviously, is the one who recognizes the unique things about her, and is appreciative, but not floored. The attractive man whose social value is through the roof, and who recognizes her social value as near to his own, though not above it.

Being able to create within her the feeling of being recognized for her specialness - which, coming down from an objective mindset (where we are all no more than commodities) and into a subjective mindset, pretty much everyone has - and then being attractive in your own right and inspiring her to invest and give chase validates the belief she's been inculcated by parents and media from an early age to believe: that she is among "the best."

And really, would you want to be with a woman who isn't?

Chase Amante

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Chase, how do you turn down a


Chase,
how do you turn down a girl in a way that isn't awkward/makes her hate your guts?

Obviously this is easier if a girl cold approaches you, you can take her number and not call her or something. But what if it's a girl from your social circle who flirts with you or has said "let's hang out" and you can't tell her you view her as a friend because it would sound out of place since she hasn't directly expressed interest (she could simply deny it or say she meant in a frendly way) and at the same time refusing her makes her hate you and destroys your friendship...

I've tried everything, making my behavior completely friendly with not even a hint of "friend flirting", presenting myself as unattractive to her specifically, flirting with other girls in front of them, even praising or complimenting other girls when talking to her...

Nothing works...

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Chase!

Chase Amante's picture

Girls You Aren't Interested In

Author

Anon-

Might not be the answer you want to hear, but in this case, the best play is usually just to continue being friendly and maybe make a few, "Yeah, totally!" responses when she says the two of you should hang out every so often. Telling her you're not interested in no uncertain terms is just too messy if she's a part of your social circle... it's too likely to turn her into an enemy who's then trying to hurt your reputation. Better just to allow her to save face and simply not follow up with her.

Some women will throw themselves after you no matter what obstacles you put up (they see you ignore them to flirt with other girls; they see you with a girlfriend; they hear you have TWO girlfriends; etc.), simply because that's their method for getting a man - keeping throwing stuff at the wall until something breaks through. It's worked for them in the past, and they're going to keep trying it. It's a form of confident ugly girl game, and just being nice and otherwise ignoring it is really all you can do. Chances are, she's doing it with a bunch of other guys too, just spamming guys with "We should hang out!" pings until someone bites. No need to get on her hit-list radar of men who are unnecessarily nasty by turning her down when she was just pinging... she'll eventually get tired of pinging you, or find a boyfriend and pair off (then again, sometimes these girls continue pinging other guys for sexual relationships even when they HAVE a boyfriend... many of them are rather tireless that way).

Chase

Matt C's picture

Hey Chase, I have a question


Hey Chase,

I have a question concerning this article:

I'm kind of narcissistict and arrogant; although I actually feel like I'm better than most of the people I meet, I'd describe myself as very open-minded and able to respect people with different perspectives. I discovered this idea of thinking and/or behaving a few years ago (I'm still very young) and it has "worked". I still seek self-improvement and know that the universe dooesn't owe me anything. This is probably the asshole phase.

Now you're article really hit me because I thought about it and I still feel like I'm "better" than 90% of the people I meet.

Is that bad/Will it impact my life in a negative way (dating, school, friends, work, etc.)?

Thanks in advance,

Matt

P.s.: What would you tell your 16 y.o. self concerning life and everything? + What are ways a young man can invest in himself besides working out, studying and building self esteem plus social skills?

Pablo's picture

RE


Sup Matt,

I feel you bro, I'm narcissistic as fuck too.
I feel like I'm one of the Best fucking people alive. But then if you think you really are better than others you're really just being ignorant is what I always tell myself.

A tip on investing in yourself is find a hobby you really like, try out multiple things and decide if you would want to be doing that for a long Period of time.

For example, id really like to know how to play a guitar and I think my life would benefit from it in multiple ways. Also I'd like to be really good at MMA because it would benefit my life.

Try to find things you would like to be able to do/ would benefit your life or you just like doing.

Regards,

Pablo

Matt's picture

Yeah, I try to expose myself


Yeah, I try to expose myself to as many things I can.
Been working out for the fast 3 months and I'm already seeing big changes.. And actually started learning to play the guitar like 2 weeks ago (still suck at everything though).

I wish you the best of luck!

- Matt

Chase Amante's picture

Pride, Personal Development

Author

Matt-

So long as you're keeping a good head on your shoulders and not going crazy with it, pride is an extremely attractive trait, and narcissism makes people charismatic beyond belief. They've repeatedly shown in various fields that confidence trumps expertise when it comes to gaining people's trust; e.g., supremely confident doctors who make more mistakes are more trusted by patients than doctors who prefer to consult the books or other doctors before making any certain statements and make fewer mistakes. Pride's also rated as the most attractive male expression to women in one laboratory study after another, and it's a big success driver, too (you'll push yourself to succeed to avoid failing and losing face; and you'll assume you CAN succeed because, heck, it's YOU).

The only time pride can be bad is if it becomes totally unmoored from reality - e.g., if you start thinking you're so far beyond your own abilities that you either set yourself up for a major fall the first time you really step up to be tested, or you just never start in the first place to avoid disconfirmation of what you think about yourself. So long as it isn't paralyzing you or making you give up because reality doesn't match expectation though, you'll be fine.

As far as what I'd tell a version of me in the middle of his teenage years... that's tough. He wouldn't listen to me anyway because he was so depressed, fatalistic, and deep into victim mentality, and so certain he was right about the world and himself. Probably short of dragging him kicking and screaming to success, there isn't much I could say or do that would make a difference. To someone a little more open-minded though, in addition to gym, social skills, and his studies, I'd say learn a marketable skill like writing or programming (Ruby on Rails is a very good language choice for getting highly paid relatively quickly, and being able to build all kinds of apps for yourself or others - good resources here and here), and start getting paid for it ASAP (either as a freelancer or by running your own small business). That'll do two things for you: start you early on learning a skill that takes time to get really good at, so the earlier you start, the sooner you're reaping the benefits; and, you learn from an early age how to make money, ideally from anywhere you want in the world, which opens up a huge realm of possibilities in the future to you and means you're never stuck taking crap from anyone that you don't want to take because it's the only way you can eat.

You may think you know what future you wants right now, but future you is almost certainly going to be a very different person from present you; the biggest favor you can do him is to assume you don't know him at all, and set to work right now on giving him as many potential paths and opportunities and valuable skills he can use in whatever way he sees fit to lead whatever life he chooses to lead.

Chase

Matt's picture

Thanks for the answers.. I


Thanks for the answers.. I owe you one!
The last sentence is very interesting; don't tell me you came up with that one yourself. I never really considered that...

- Matt

P.s. Really love seeing girlschase evolve! Just saw the ads on ROK a few days ago, although I've already been here for a few months.

Troy's picture

future


Hey Chase,

I saw your reply on my request to do an article on "Avoiding Making Enemies", so thanks for that.

There was 1 question that you missed out ( and a genuine overlooking on your part ). That is how do i handle when a girl that i like and she seems to like me too hears bad rumors about me that are not true? And how do i behave/keep control when around her to not make her believe the rumors are true?

Also, you stated in your reply to me that also i may have Aspergers Syndrome. I just did some research on it and it shows as VICTIMS being:
1) Annoying to other persons
2) Likable at first but not much after.
3) Shows weird facial expressions, body language, weird vocal tone e.t.c...
4) Tends to overexagerate a story while everyone is bored and confused with them.
5) Speaks very complicated and random things out of the blue.
6) Is not very socially wise and street wise.
7) They cannot hold a proper conversation and they are nervous around other people especially the opposite sex ( a guy being victimized by approach anxiety and afraid of talking to girls).
8) They usually lack empathy and offend people.
9) They are mainly isolated and usually depressed.
10) They cant maintain friends or romantic partners ( especially difficulty forming them in the first place)
11) They get teased mercilessly none stop by peers e.t.c...

And their are many more that i could go into but the person with Aspergers Syndrome is basically a person who is Socially Awkward that didnt get an early start like their peers mainly because of rejection, depression, failure, and self esteem issues!

Now im saying all these facts to see how far i fall in this category. I sort of fall into most of these categories i listed above except numbers 8 and 9. I have started socializing more, i dont isolate myself in public and i try not to offend people.

What i dont understand that i would like help understanding is:
1) What are the major differences between a guy with aspergers syndrome and a guy who is just socially awkward?the reason i say that is because several guys reading this site have conversation errors and nonverbal issues to fix and i dont see the difference between these two.

2) Is there hope for me or someone else who has Aspergers Syndrome?
3) What can i do to get rid of this and be exceptionally great, a social success and normal?

3) how much time will it take a person to move from aspergers syndrome in relation to how much quality and quantity of socializing they do? 1,2,3 or more years?

4) how do i keep motivated to move forward to my goals when it looks painful and the journey is long?
5) Would you say that based on what i just told you that i may be suffering from Aspergers Syndrome?

I got this information from a website here below:
Succeed Socially

its not a very attractive layout site but it sure has some useful information. please to just browse over it and tell me what you think. Thanks Chase!

blogster's picture

A few comments...


While you have addressed this to Chase, I would say from observation and experience, a few things. Some of the traits you have listed would be Asperger's symptoms/outcomes. Asperger's is also characterised by being focused on particular interests, talking about those obsessively and not realising others are bored, missing basic social cues etc.

Others you have listed are more to do with social anxiety. Having Aspergers can lead to anxiety as you see the results and realise what is happening and fear certain or many types of social situations. This can result in avoidance behaviour, where in order to minimise anxious feelings you avoid certain situations (e.g. public speaking, networking events etc.)

You can also be highly sensitive in that you have a stronger that typical reaction to external stimuli. For example, parties, with loud noises and many people can be overwhelming to the point where the body shuts down, you can't think properly, feel anxious generally and you need to leave the area (distinct from social anxiety). Elaine Aron has written a book about this called "The Highly Sensitive Person". This and generalised anxiety can be herditary.

Social awkwardness can just be not being as smooth or natural socially. If you were to compare it to playing sport, some people are clearly naturally gifted and can catch, run, kick, dodge etc with ease, some are awkward and some can actually have a disability that impairs their motor coordination e.g. missing finger, deformity etc.

It's possible to have a combination of these all at once. My advice would be to clearly identify 'symptoms'or behaviours you're exhibiting and figure out what 'condition' you have, first. Social awkwardness by itself can just mean more study and practice till you get better, anxiety may require more specific techniques to deal with.

Nuncle's picture

I would like to jump in here too.


Hi Troy

Asperger's syndrome can make success with women pretty difficult but it does have it's advantages, too.

You stand out as different, and a lot of women actually like this (Chase would probably describe it as having an edge or Byronic flaws). It can seem as if you don't care what other people think, you are independent and follow your own path (watch any Hollywood film for confirmation that women go for this). Also, you don't get excited about a lot of things that other men get excited about. This can lead women to see you as a "real man" as opposed to an excitable boy, which you can trade off if you know how. (Of course other guys will sense that you have these few advantages and try to take them away from you by flagging up your weak points, so try and turn the volume down on these weak points while retaining the advantages)

That said the disadvantages are formidable. You might make a great first impression but because you are not socially calibrated you are likely to respond to her in ways she is not expecting once you get talking and this is likely to put her off. Also most regular guys will have at least an instinctual understanding of things you will not, such as indicators of interest, escalation windows, attraction expiration and the requirement for the man to make the first move.

The best advice I can give is to study what is on this site religiously, read it as much as you can and internalise all its lessons. It's written by people who have devoted themselves to understanding social dynamics and who have gone out in the real world and tested everything rigorously. Then practice doing the same yourself again and again and again until things fall into place or at the very least you land a few direct hits. But be prepared to swallow a number of cringe-making misjudgements, especially if you have Asperger's.

Also, get some books on NLP, which can be very useful and is largely concerned with practical ways to build rapport (with anyone). Again you have to read it and take it all in, even if on first reading you think "eh? This is BS!"

The concept of empathy is a tricky and confusing one when it comes to Asperger's. \In this context it does not mean you cannot feel other peoples' pain or feel pity for them - Asperger's is not psychopathy. The type of empathy being referred to here is that of being able to understand how other peoples' mind works. Again we could use the example of a girl saying "I could really do with a night out" A regular guy would instinctively know that was code for "suggest a date", Aspergerers (?) would just think she was imparting information (that was a very simplistic example. The differences in mental mapping actually run a lot deeper than that I think).

I remember a previous question you asked about bullying. I think the way to deal with it is in exactly the same way you would seduction. Treat every act of aggression against you as a learning opportunity and a chance to test out different approaches and mindsets to deal with it (eg ignoring it, laughing, disdain, shouting, swearing). At first you will often fail embarassingly but you will learn from each one. Bullies can very easily be beaten. Surprisingly easily in a lot of cases, which feels real good, but you have to commit to the learning process. One thing I find useful is to keep reminding myself that no matter how embarassing and harmful any attempt might be it's less embarassing than doing nothing. Any time that internal voice starts saying "but what if......" I just reply "Yes, but that would still be less embarassing than doing nothing"

Good luck dude.

Chase Amante's picture

Rumors, Aspergers, and Long-Term Motivation

Author

Troy-

The only thing you can do about bad, untrue rumors is to pretend you know NOTHING about them, and don't ever talk about them or hint about them unless she brings them up directly - and in that case, act genuinely curious, ask about what people are saying, and laugh them off. And seek to make your general actions and impression so clearly contrary to what negative things people say about you that the rumors become impossible to believe.

Blogster's and Nuncle's comments here pretty well addressed your Aspergers questions (and better than I could have). I couldn't say whether you have it or not; I might suggest looking online for an Aspergers test/assessment for a quick and dirty estimate, and check out a psychologist who specializes in the field if you want a more certain diagnosis yay or nay. I've known a few guys with Aspergers who got really good with women; the time it took them seemed roughly similar to other guys I know, but they also devoted themselves obsessively to it, and basically became non-stop approach machines who just approached, approached, approached everywhere, and constantly took notes and asked people around them who were better than them questions non-stop. I knew a guy who would sit outside the gym and take notes on what all the powerful guys were doing with their body language so he could emulate it. Things like that. You might also check out the writings of the guys on the discussion boards with Aspergers; one who's been especially prolific in chronicling his journey and posting up results has been The Byronic Man, and there are a few threads on there about Aspergers.

As for motivation, reread the article on effort aversion; everything I've got on real, deep, long-term motivation is in there.

Also, fixed that hyperlink for you; it wasn't showing up properly.

Chase

Troy's picture

Thanks!


Hey Friends,
Thanks for the lengthy comments to me and giving of your time!

All my questions were answered. I realize now what my condition can be fixed. I thank Blogster and Nuncle for jumping in here. The advice sounds good to use. So just out practice and write my field reports. Im hoping to start using the forum for that under my name "Troy" and see how that goes.

Chase always reliable so thanks much!

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year when it comes friends!

Nuncle's picture

Cheers mate, you too.


Cheers mate, you too.

340Breeze's picture

Thank you


I'm glad y'all finally wrote an article on this concept about American 'superiority' and how it plays out in the dating arena. Problem with superiority (especially when you develop mental models around humble women from other locales) is that it's a turnoff to me.

After meeting alot of American women, and figuring out how commotodized they really are, whenever I meet one who acts as if she's superior, but then discover -- via deep-diving -- that she isn't all that different than any other woman, my attraction tanks. My mental model has changed. When I was newer, I was susceptible to letting first/second encounters/impressions set expectations. I've since learned that it's wise to delay judgement about whether or not to be excited until I get more information about a woman. Back when I was new I'd get excited about almost anything that seemed impressive. WRONG! What I ended up learning unconsciously (but couldn't quite verbalize) was that if someone acted superior, or presented themselves in a superior light, I used to expect that such a person held alot of greatness. But after deep diving and learning more about a 'superior' person, if it came to pass that this person wasn't all that special, then my visceral reaction was like whoa, wtf, that's it, that's all you have to offer? A big let-down.

So I've learned that it's so much more rewarding to me to meet a woman who acts as if she is nothing all that special, but presents herself with just enough value to incentivize me to dig deeper. An then when I deep dive, I find out all kinds of interesting, impressive alluring things about her that I never would have guessed. In other words, she doesn't front-load her value for me. If I want to find it out, I have to ask. Even months into the relationship I discover new value. And she plays it off like it's no big deal, like nothing all that special, as if there was no hard-work or struggle involved. Like the end result is effortless, when in fact I know that the truth is that greatness comes from struggle and hardwork. This is much more attractive in my eyes.

Cheers,

340Breeze.

Chase Amante's picture

The Wrapping vs. the Present

Author

Breeze-

That's a great distinction, between what I'd call the wrapping and the present.

Many of the people who have amazing wrapping, and know how to come off as exceptionally impressive or beautiful, are lacking in substance... and it ends up being a big let down. Not all the time - this is why I screen for both education and ambition, because educated ambitious people tend to cover all their bases, personal development-wise - but it's pretty common.

Most people only have so much bandwidth they can devote to improving themselves - sometimes it comes down to focusing on the outside or focusing on the in.

Chase

Jake's picture

College in California


This is my first time posting and your article, Chase, couldn't have come at a better time. I first had my eyes opened due to your website back at the beginning of my junior year. I'm a senior right now in college and I've noticed this kind of behavior from everybody that I've crossed paths with in the past four years here. I didn't grow up with all the TV and marketing schemes like you mentioned that increased people's feelings of superiority, so I feel out of place here sometimes when everyone "tries" to be unique. Tumblr, Instagram, and Facebook, I feel are the main social-media players in this "entitlement epidemic."

Just like the gentleman before me said about it becoming a turn off, I absolutely agree. I constantly find myself becoming bored and eventually just tuning them out. But after reading your article, now I know how I can better adjust my interactions with women and land myself in the lover category in terms of being a validator.

-Jake

Anonymous's picture

Nice


This post is pure gold.

Marty's picture

Deep-diving and auto-rejection


Chase:

Yet another intriguing and innovative article.

I was particularly interested to learn that you conceived deep-diving foremost as a method of avoiding auto-rejection. Now that I have a little practical, in-field familiarity with the principal elements of the Amante School of seduction science, I begin to see how they all hang together as a unit!

-Marty

EricD's picture

Conversation


Chase, is it awkward to deep dive so quickly into a conversation?

I hope you can write an article on everything other than deep diving in a conversation. You focus a lot on that but I find that i'm already really good at connecting with people. It's the small talk part that I have trouble with. Deep conversations are good but you really can't have them that often with the same person. What I need help with is knowing how to have light conversation and how to interact with people or the same person say after seeing them multiple times throughout the night. Say I see a doorman everyday in the morning, several times throughout the day, and then at night. How do I go about conversing with him and how does it change the next day and day after that? As you get to know someone better, I feel like if you take any steps back and don't talk more or progress that relationship (whether it be due to being busy, not knowing what to say or not knowing that person very well), it becomes awkward. So if I talk to the doorman like a friend one day, do I have to do this with him everytime I see him or how do I manage this relationship without having to invest so much time and effort? Similarly if I'm at, say some kind of dinner event or gala, how do I talk to people when I first see them versus just passing by them and eventually leaving the event? If these questions are answered in the conversation program I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Light Conversation with Acquaintances

Author

Eric-

Noted on the article request. Spellbinding's focused more on deeper conversational tech, so things like deep diving, thread cutting, thread amplifying, finding bridges and avoiding gaps, and coming up for air with chase framing before things get too heavy; if you're looking more for light conversation techniques, it might still be somewhat useful, but it's not really tailored to what you're in search of. As for articles, there's nothing on here specifically on the little snippets of conversation you have over time with someone you run into here and there socially, but there is a good deal on non-deep dive conversation. I'd check these out for starters:

A few good things to keep in mind are always remember a fact or two about people you'll reconnect with later, so you can ask, "How's your music-making coming?" or, "How was that party you were headed to last weekend?" and have quick one- or two-sentence mini-stories about funny or interesting things you've seen in the interim since you last saw them to tell if you're running into people repeatedly in venues at any one time - things like, "Hey, have you tried the butter cookies over there on the dessert table? Whoa... they're amazing," or, "You just missed the guy on the dance floor who's groping everyone around him... I think he finally paired off with some 200-pound girl and they're both blissful now, but he sure scared a lot of cute skinny girls away in the process."

Chase

340Breeze's picture

Inhibition is a seduction killer


There needs to be a solution to dealing with the culture and its influence on women's mentalities...and a discussion on how those influences make seduction more difficult than it should otherwise be. Here in America we men have to deal with, among other things: the slut-shaming phenomenon, and other inhibitions that emanate from commodity status. I am glad that you guys have pointed out some of these detrimental mindsets. Would be nice to see an article or at least a page that summarizes these inhibition inducing mindsets, and a solution or two that a man can use to empower the women he fancies.

One issue (among many) with commodity status is how the observers/players treat commodities. If a woman thinks a man is a commodity, and thus expendable, why would she spend much time forgiving slights and looking for value in him as a person? The path of least resistance is to get bored and easily replace the commodity with something else. But you can quickly see why a man would (a commodity) be hesitant to treat any particular woman that he meets as special as she thinks she is, especially if he fears that he would open up himself to potential hurt/pain given that she would replace him in an instant. But that's inhibition.

I think this commodity concept stems from capitalism in part. Commercials, movies, etc make things/products appear effortless like there is little hard-work involved in creating a superior product/service, which of course is an illusion. Another issue with capitalism's influence on people's mentalities is the ease of acquiring the goods that you most value. If you have the money/credit then you simply buy it/get a loan for it. Simple. But getting the people you most value to remain incentivized to come back for more isn't always easy or effortless at all (until you become more attractive than most). Some girls I've met who think they're superior just don't understand how they stack up against other 'outlier' women that I've met before. Some are unaware or don't care all that much about what qualities an 'outlier woman' possesses vs an average woman who thinks she is superior but lacks most of the outlier qualities. Yet these average women feel entitled to be treated as special as a woman who possesses (in my view) superior qualities and abilities. Qualities such as feminine charm, grace, ambition, uninhibited (and thus not lukewarm) when it comes to her sexuality, smarts, good body weight, independence, good looks, humility, living a passionate life she truly enjoys, can tease/take jokes adequately, knows how to touch me to excite me, can dress the part well (casual vs sophisticated), high emotional intelligence about people's needs/wants other than her own, and so on.

The problem with dating is how some people respond to the dreaded commodity status. Some become somewhat inhibited (if they feel they may replaced at a moment's notice by inadvertently triggering autorejection in someone they like). Others might overcompensate and become an asshole (who negs other people to pop the bubble of superiority and bring others down to earth). I've met girls who refuse to compliment, who refuse to charm, who refuse to do anything to make a new, unproven man, feel special..at all. And at first I couldn't understand this mentality (like how could you like somebody but refuse to make them feel good??) But I've asked some women why, and they've later told me they fear being charming at all to a new guy because they don't want to inflate any egos of any man who might drop them on a dime...Hmmm.

But the point of seduction is to treat another human being special. Unfortunately, inhibition is a killer to seduction. Much of what you guys teach bears this out...you guys teach how to respond to inhibited women who worry about slut-shaming, which causes inhibition. You guys also teach how to avoid auto-rejection and the inhibited/cold behavior that results from it. Again, inhibition. And plus women are attracted to confidence like moths to a flame and by definition the confident aggressive seducer doesn't present himself in an inhibited way.

So I've been thinking about it recently, trying to put words to my actions, and I conclude that what has resulted is my response to women's behavior that follows from 'commodity status.' I have to spend much of my time in the beginning around certain women having to empower them and subtly encourage them (excite them even??) to become less inhibited around me and to open up and to trust me...on a deeper, non-superficial basis. I have to instill confidence in them first that it is okay to be sexual, or to tell deep secrets that they hold inside. But if I am successful, then the floodgates of emotion flow out from within. Other girls are relatively uninhibited from the start and need little, if any encouraging on my part to spice things up really nicely. Have you ever noticed a similar phenomenon?

Cheers,

340Breeze.

Chase Amante's picture

Inhibition

Author

Breeze-

The assessment of commodity / not-commodity status really comes down to the degree of emotional association a girl feels for a guy - the stronger it is, the more "unique" and non-commodity he will seem to her; the weaker it is, the more expendable and commoditized he'll appear.

The ego protection you see in the West, and especially in the United States, today is something you don't see anywhere nearly as pervasively around the rest of the world, and it has pretty big implications on emotional association. People elsewhere in the world are just more ready to associate themselves emotionally with others, and view them more as unique individuals and less as commodities.

That's a great note on women tiptoeing around compliments / charm / etc. as a fear response to the possibility of inflating a guy's ego so much that the guy runs off. I've noticed that both men and women do this in most English-speaking countries. In fact, one of the strangest things to me when I started meeting more foreign women was the ease with which they complimented and pulled out the charm… it almost felt overmuch at first. Now it seems normal, and the rigid reserve of many women from Anglophone countries seems stiff, awkward, and unusual.

The point on emotion basically being a stopped dam in the West that bursts through as soon as you loosen it up enough is something I've seen plenty as well. It's a sort of "reserved --> reserved --> reserved --> EMOTION" process that's really rather jarring. It's a shame, really… you realize after you see it repeatedly how repressed people are in our society right now, and how much they feel like they can't be free and expressive with other people out of fear of being rejected, humiliated, and made to feel like dirt. But it's not healthy to be on the other side of, either, because they go through all kinds of emotional swings, rather than behaving like emotionally mature adults (they haven't yet emotionally matured, so they can't).

Anyway, this is an interesting topic, Breeze - I'll flesh this one out more in a post.

Chase

Peacer's picture

Can't Understand What To Do ?


Dear Chase.. !

I have been in a relationship with my girlfriend for two and half years now. If I have found this site early, my life could be changed lot. But rather unfortunately, It didn't happen. I don't know anyone can understand my situation if you can't. So that is why I am telling this to you, because I feel you are the only one who can help me get out of this. We started to make a relationship because everyone else do it. I know, it is silly, after reading lot of here. But again what do it. It has happened.
There are lot of difference between us. She is so traditional, doesn't like to wear sexy, doesn't like to be sexy and I don't like it that way. Even though we knew it. We just continued it. Last couple of months was the worst time of our relationship. Lot of dramas have started since then. Now I am really tired with this relationship. I want to break up but I just can't do it. She says if I break up, she has nothing to lose, she will kill herself. She is very angry girl. She doesn't know what she does when she is angry. She is right. She has done lot of commitment for me. Even she against to her family because of me. I never ever want to hurt her feelings and I never ever want to see ruin of herself. I know, I am the one who is totally wrong her since the beginning. Now, I have no idea what to do, sometimes I feel only option I have to kill myself. I know it is silly. But may be no one can understand my feeling. I know, if I break up with her now, she will be alone. No one will help her. What should I do chase ? Will she kill herself, If I break up with her.. ? If you were me, how do you handle this kind of situation ?

Thank you..!

Peacer's picture

Dear chase, My native


Dear chase,

My native language is not English, so above post contains some mistakes, sorry for that.
I thought lot about my problem last night. What I have realized is, I can't leave her right now. I am the only one she has now. If I also leave her, she will be alone. After having a relationship for two and half years with her, I don't want to leave from her giving ton of sad feelings and I don't like to see her in ruins. I just can't go away like other men, thinking like "Whatever happens to her after I leave, I don't care, it doesn't matter to me..". I am not that kind of guy. I never ever want her to hate me. She is still studying. Her final exam in next august. If I leaver her now, she will give up her exam and I don't want her to happen that. I think, If I want to break up with her, I should create good environment for her first. May be, at least her exam finishes. Otherwise she will be alone, because at the moment she totally depends on me. I don't know whether I am right or wrong, that is why I am seeking your help and guidance.

On the other hand, I would like to ask you this question from you chase. There is no one better than you to ask this question. I have heard lot "Girls can change men", can't we change them ? In my case most of the drama between us have been created since our different opinions. She is a beautiful girl but doesn't want to appear beautiful. She even doesn't make her eyebrows till they grow and grow. She says she like it that way because it is what natural. But I don't like it that way. I have seen her couple of times with shaped eyebrows, she is so cute then. But I don't like to tell or point out her to do it, because I think, It is up to her to care about herself. She is so traditional, she thinks about sex, like something very sin. She doesn't like to wear sexy. She thinks it something sin. If she see a girl with a tattoo or piercing something like that, she labels that girl as a prostitute. I don't know what wrongs with her and I don't like it that way. I like sexy girls. After reading here, it grows up to even higher lever. Is it something wrong.. ? and I like her to be sexy also, but I don't want to force her. I know, I am the one who is totally wrong here since the start. I should not started a relationship with her, but what to do, I have. I think you can understand me. Now, I am in a position where I can't leave her alone. Please help me to relax mind. I don't want to hurt anyone. What should I do.. ? I have no idea.
Will I give a try to change herself (I feel bad about it though and even I don't know someone can change someone like that if they truly don't want to change them-self, and I don't know how to do it.. ? Have you done something like that ever before chase ?)

Should I breakup with her or try to change her.. ? I don't know, please show me a path to get rid of this. I am so tired with this now. I have got unbelievable freedom and happiness compare to this life, when there was no girl in my life, but unfortunately I didn't understand it that time and wanted to have a relationship with someone because everyone does.

I try to explain my situation as much as possible, if you can help me dear chase.
I don't want to hurt anyone.. anyone..
I don't know whether you can understand me or not.. ? If you can't also, I will give up all of this.

Thank you.
Looking forward your answers.

Chase Amante's picture

Sticky Relationship Exit

Author

Peacer-

Check out Drexel's article on cluster B women here:

"Spotting (and Avoiding) Cluster B Women"

... this sounds like it's her. These women will do some pretty dramatic things to try and hold onto you, including the suicide threats. They will also enter into situations where they have bound themselves to you so desperately and inseparably that you'd need a heart of stone to cleave them off, and the reason they do this in the first place is so that you won't be able to leave them.

There's no easy answer here for what you can do to exit the relationship; you're essentially all tangled up, and now you've got to untangle. It's going to take some time. I've been successful in avoiding super sticky situations with women like this myself, so I don't have the experience to tell you exactly what to do here, but I'd probably suggest finding the help of an experienced relationship counselor to talk things through with - one that one of the commenters on this site recommended, whose site I've found to be a wonderful read on a number of different cluster B disorder situations, is Shari Schreiber at this website: http://gettinbetter.com/

Women who will threaten suicide to control you are not bad people, but they are emotionally immature, and they're using your own fear and empathy to keep you stuck somewhere you don't want to be. Relationships like this are not healthy for you, and they're not healthy for them.

If you haven't tried it, I might also suggest reviewing the breakup tech from my article on breaking up; in my experience, most guy are pretty bad at dealing with breakups, and women get understandably upset at the feeling of rejection the average guy gives them when he tries - a little better communication is usually in order: "How to Break Up with a Girl."

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Talk


... A direct opening, casual brief conversation, setting up a date, following it by grabbing the number and than ........ My mind freezes and i sometimes blurt something out or ask another question...

What is your basic protocol Chase, when you set the date up, grab the number and between that time and the time you say bye, what do you do or say ?

Example:

Me: ..... "Lets continue this interesting conversation at a cafe, what does your schedule look like?"

She: "I am free most of the time, Thursday fine with you?"

Me: "Hmm... Thursday is good, i am mostly free. Lets meet up at the big tree at 20:00"?

She: "Deal".

Me: "let me just grab your number ( pulling out the phone )" ( sometimes they reject giving me their phone numbers maybe their playing and i often reply with "Lets trade numbers, in case something pops up and one has to cancel" )

She: "It is xxx-xxx-xxx "

Me: "Okay, i just rang you - i got to go now, see you on Thursday. We`ll be in touch in the meantime if something comes up.

Basically, i do something like this.

I am terrible on the close and i know it, and i am trying to improve myself here.

Can you give me a whole process from start to finish on how to grab the number, scenario 1 when she agrees to give it and scenario 2 when she either plays or does not agree to give the number.

Chase Amante's picture

Grabbing Phone Numbers

Author

Anon-

Check out this article on getting phone numbers: "How to Get a Phone Number from a Girl Every Time You Ask", and scroll down to "How to Get a Phone Number the Easy Way" - essentially, you're overcomplicating things for yourself right now by putting her on the spot about her schedule, which she probably doesn't know offhand.

Instead, just tell her you want to meet up again, then grab her number and tell her you'll text her. Once you have it, say "goodbye", and use the follow up process here to find out her schedule and plan things out in a smooth and straightforward way: "How to Text a Girl."

Chase

EricD's picture

I am special!


Hello Chase I'm actually applying to school right now and I find this article relevant on several levels, although I'm trying to figure out how to apply this to my situation. Do you have a lot of experience with applications and interviews? and the essay question is to explain why i'm interested in the program. Whether it be this program or a job opportunity, what is the best way to answer this question and should I focus more on where I've come from, how I've grown and what I have to offer, essentially highlighting my potential, or should I talk about what interests me in the program/job and why I want to do it (which seems much harder to standout)?

Chase Amante's picture

Applications

Author

Eric-

I have more experience on the interviewer side of things than on the interviewee side, but I can tell you that the best answers I get when I've had cause to ask this one show a nuanced understanding of what it is exactly that we do, what the most important tenets of our business is, and what we're looking for, and show a lot of excitement on the interviewee's part at how well his own skills match up with that.

On the interviewing side of things, I got my first job coming out of university by spending a few hours studying the hiring company's business practices, industries, and mission statement (which I found online), and then coming up with three examples from my own work history that I could tie into each of the three parts of the mission statement, with details about the business, as examples for how perfect a fit the company was for me and I was for it. The interviewer sat there with a big smile as I answered this one, and remarked that finally she'd found someone who'd done his homework, and I got the job. Other folks who'd interviewed with her told me she was a tough-as-nails interviewer, but all I could report was she seemed pretty nice to me.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Diagnostic


The Getting Started EBooks are awesome!!! Thank you!!! Would be great if you could explain the answers to the quiz questions too since I'm not sure what the Master would do!

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Diagnostic

Author

Anon-

Glad you like the eBooks! If I gave away the answers though, it wouldn't be nearly as fun... :)

Chase

Anonymous's picture

what if i did things right and still failed.


Hey man,

I talked to you before about these two that I really liked. I am not experienced much with women but these girls are in demand. I was geniiunly interested in them and I really liked them physically and personality wise. I deep dived them and touches them. I always look them in the eyes and I danced with them both romanticly and dirty (they dance close with many guys though). I act sexual around and yet I still failed to win either. They know my intentions and I also tell them like sexual compliments and other good compliments every now and then. So why did,u fail I really liked them.

Chase Amante's picture

Social Circle

Author

Anon-

It sounds like you're running social circle game with girls you know socially, which is different than cold approach. In some ways, it's easier (if you have a good, sexual, preselected reputation in your circle), in other ways, it's harder (if you don't have this, girls are inclined to friend zone you to preserve their reputations).

I'd suggest checking out Peter's great series of articles on social circle here:

  1. Meeting Women via Social Circle: The Pros and Cons
  2. How to Escalate with Girls in Social Circle
  3. Killer Reputation Management for Your Social Circle
  4. Tapping Your Social Circle to Meet Loads More Girls

... as well as my discussion of the dynamic of getting together with girls you know socially:

Chase

Pichka's picture

Biology vs. Culture


Could you please write something on things that are biological vs. cultural? What are the things in seduction and psychology that apply to almost all women and men... and what is only applicable to certain cultures, groups (can be changed if a person changes their environment)? Can cultural programming be changed or does it get more difficult the older you get?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Biology vs. Culture

Author

Pichka-

Sure - I've noted it down for an upcoming article.

Cultural programming does get more deeply ingrained the older you become - just try telling a senior citizen it's time to change his ways. However, women seem to be a lot more inclined to let go of culture and embrace biology given the right / accepting circumstances than men are - but more on that when we do an article on it.

Think of it this way in the meantime: culture directs and controls; biology inspires and excites.

Chase

samtheman's picture

Hey Chase, Nice post. I had a


Hey Chase,

Nice post. I had a question regarding your views on the implementation of providing validation to the woman in the best way.

It seems that there's a really fine line between propping her up, but at the same time not giving her so much validation where it goes to her head and you lose power in the relationship (I've read several of your posts on power dynamics).

I can see that from a relationship standpoint that you should strive to bring out the best in her and make the woman feel emotions which make her feel special. How would you recommend doing this in a way which doesn't put her on a pedestal, especially in the long term? Also, do you think women will take advantage of your "ego boosts" in the long run and can this be detrimental to the relationship?

Thanks again.

-W

Chase Amante's picture

Validation in Relationships

Author

Watson-

The easiest way to think about maintaining the power balance in relationships is that you always want to be slightly less invested and less interested in the relationship than she is. If you're more invested and interested, she'll get bored and lose interest; if you're too much less though, she'll begin to auto-reject. So you need aim just a bit under her actual interest and investment levels.

Validation plays a role in this too; it's not one I think you need think about too much specifically; just praise girlfriends when they're doing good things you want to reinforce, per the tenets of operant conditioning. If you need a more specific metric for praising women, think of it this way: if you recognize her good qualities and point them out to her without being excited or needy, you're essentially judging her and showing your approval of her, which is what the leader does. So long as you're not gushing, sincere, genuine validation is only ever a strong trait.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

I came to a certain


I came to a certain realization and I am not sure how else to put it. I see all this as kind of a submition to a woman. Yes, you have a certain process going on that works and gets girls in bed. But I realized, you have to do certain thing in a different time. And if you do it in not so well fitting situation you risk. I used "you" but I am talking in general.

I was walking down the street with my casual parthner and I suddenly had an urge to smack her to the wall and start making out with her for couple of seconds. She seemed happy or open basically but I was not sure if it would be good. So of course I did nothing. But I just wonder why I even think about this little thing and not just do it and see what happens. Maybe she would tell me that it is inappropriate or maybe she would get more excited, I dont know.

I saw you desribing this in one article but I do not remember the name, that sometimes you just have to take the risk. Yet in many situations I find myself like: "This would make me happier now/today but I am not sure if she would be ok with that and so I'd rather not do it and basically not do the thing that would help ME in possible expanse of her."

Or maybe it is what any relationship is really all about that you cant just do things, that you need to calculate with that other person too.

Chase Amante's picture

Just Doing Things

Author

Anon-

Yes - that's basically just getting the experience of being able to read women's emotions and act on what you're feeling as well, in a smooth, natural way. You'll find that once you're well-calibrated, your feelings very reliably match the situation - when you get the sudden urge to throw her against a wall and make out with her, it's probably because you're both signaling each other that this is what you want.

I'd encourage you to do what you want with women, when you feel it. Assuming you're reasonably well-calibrated, you'll be pleasantly surprised by how much "mind reading" you're really doing, and how often you're giving her exactly what she was hoping you'd give her but hadn't wanted to ask for.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

How to deal with girl who rejected you


Hey Chase!

I have a question for you!

Currently I have made lots of great progress on my game and have been able to sleep with women I didn't think was possible for me in the past.

However, There is a girl at a college I had tried to go after. She is the only one who didn't fall prey I my charms ;) She is a Chinese girl who is from china and I am Chinese American having been born here. Long story short, I went on a lunch date with her but when I asked for a dinner date, she said "she was busy for the week but thanked me for asking". I took this as a no and decided to just let her go and not chase.

I dropped all contact and haven't seen her for a month till today.

However, she is in my department program and so it is a bit awkward. Today, I ran into her on campus and I said "hi Amy!", to which she seemed very nervous and then said, "oh I have a lot of homework and I have to go!"

This seemed very annoying to me because it made it seem like she thought I was trying to get with her still, while I am just trying to come across as chill, laid back, and not caring.

Just out of curiosity, for Chinese girls does this mean she doesn't have any interest for sure? Also, how can I make it so that she stops thinking I want to constantly go after her? Thanks chase!

Chase Amante's picture

Greeting with Names

Author

Anon-

Yes, she's being pretty clear about a lack of interest / awkward vibe. And that's fine - when you see her, just give her a small smile and slight wave, or say, "Hey!" and then keep walking. Greeting people by name is a more "familiar" greeting, and it isn't one you'll want to use with people you have awkwardness or bad feelings between, because it feels like you're trying to force more familiarity. Keep greetings to the bare minimum, and while she probably won't get interested in you again, you'll at least have a more comfortable acquaintance-ship with her.

Chase

Wolf's picture

Approaching girls at work that you never talked to


I know there's articles on here about sleeping with girls from work, but I never see how to approach them if you don't know them. I know it's different from a cold approach, but its somewhat the same if you never spoke to the girl in your life and you have absolutely no interactions with. It's just easier because she knows something about you and makes her comfortable. When reading the articles it seems its more of you and the girl know each other already but don't know about each other too much so you aren't in the friend zone.

I just have no idea how to approach a girl at work that I never had any type of convo before, I want to open direct but maybe that's too much for work, we work in different areas so it's like how weird is it for your co worker coming out of his area to give you a complement, it sounds like chasing to me.

Anyway, I feel confident enough I can get her, I just don't know how to approach her without being too strong, too weak, and too much chasing.

She also has a boyfriend I heard of that lives in a different state.

I just want to know how do I approach girls I work with that I never talked to before and how do I get this one girl I've never talked to, that has an out of state boyfriend?

Thanks
Wolf

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Approaching girls at work that you never talked to

Author

Wolf-

You need the old "find an excuse to go be near her and strike up a conversation" routine.

If you're just a little bit creative, you can always figure out something here. You have to drop something off near her; you're waiting for something near her; you're exploring the other side of the office; you're interested in getting to know some of the people you work with but haven't met yet for whatever reason; you need her help with XYZ thing she does at work; the water cooler's near her, and while you're getting a drink you ask how she's doing; it's your birthday and there's some leftover cake and does she want some; you're throwing a party this weekend and inviting people from work - the two of you haven't met before, but you've seen her around and thought she might be a cool person to know, so does she want to come?; you've thrown together an office lunch with 6 other folks in the department - would she like to come with?

There are as many different ways to swing it as there are stars in the sky - just pick one or come up with one, and you're off to the races! Rinse and repeat as many times as necessary to find enough excuses to talk to her until she's yours. Men and women have been doing it with one another in social situations since time immemorial ;)

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Commodity or not?


This article is great but it contradicts the numerous articles you have on being a bad boy. It seems as though there is no correct way to do things; rather different ways that perhaps are more effective on certain people. If you thought a girl was so special (and made her feel that way), why WOULDN'T you pursue her? Even a non-needy guy would still pursue his ideal girl, it's just human nature. Likewise, and like you mentioned, some girls want to feel special and be pursued, while other girls want to be the pursuer (at least subconsciously). Then you have the whole issue where they switch between these two emotions depending on the girl and her moods.

Take this case for example: a girl I was dating chose some other guy over me. I tried thinking of all the positive qualities he could be offering her but it is hard. He's not smart, actually quite the opposite nor does he seem to have potential, he's definitely not sexy and not the charming type who can hold a sexy gaze, he's not really a bad boy but more of the wannabe type, he's weird and a douchebag (and these are other people's words), and he's quite the opposite of good looking! It seems like one of those cases where "guys don't want to be him and girls don't want to be with him," and believe me this girl is a stone cold stunner. What I can think of that he is offering is probably fun and carefree but seriously he's got so much going against him and people are really wondering why she's with him (hurting her social value?). Apparently he also says something to the likes of "good morning beautiful" to her everyday, which is something every "guru" out there would advise against and would say gets old very fast. It's something I might have done had I not been busy being challenging and being the one being "pursued" and waiting days to text her.

Chase Amante's picture

Bad Boys

Author

Anon-

There are different flavors in how you structure an approach or a relationship, sure, but the underlying structure is all the same: the more attractive option who runs the better process wins.

I remember you commented before, though I forget which thread; same thing I said there remains true here - I can't tell what stage of things you were at with her, but I'm getting the suspicion you were not sleeping with her yet, or at least had not bedded her 3+ times, in which case, she's fair game for anyone moving faster than you, less attractive or not. If that doesn't make sense yet, read this article and it'll click: "How to Get Girls: The Last Post You'll Ever Need."

Chase

Mike's picture

Really great post Chase,


Really great post Chase, really great, high-level.

I'll give you my opinion on Mozart, even though you didn't ask. ;)

I think "talent" does exist, but not what people think it is. I think "talent" can be replaced with "desire".

It's not that Mozart was born with incredible ABILITIES... instead, he was both born with an incredible DESIRE for music, AND the situation you described (his father trained him from an early age).

I think it's the combination of desire + young start that people really think as "talent". And then, the more you learn when you're younger, the more "talented" you appear when you get older.

After all, there have been tons of people who have tried to create Mozart 2.0's, starting their kids out with hardcore piano lessons at the age of two.

But there has only ever been one Mozart. I think it's desire + early practice, and then, maybe, a touch of divinity. ;)

Chase Amante's picture

Desire

Author

Mike-

Certainly true - desire's a key part. Although, if you study great performers, you will find quite often that desire begins to emerge as one gets good at something - extremely often, success breeds desire, more than anything else. It's just fun when you're better at something than everyone else.

Mozart actually didn't become "recognized" as great until some time after his death; other pianists who are little remembered today were the preeminent artists of his day. I'd probably wager a guess that anyone trying to crank out another Mozart in today's day and age is showing up a few centuries too late; just like training up another Alexander great at commanding phalanxes in the modern age, piano is wonderful, but well past its prime; the music du jour is rather now pop, hip-hop, and electronic. The real Mozart 2.0 of the 20th century I think would be safe to say was Michael Jackson ;) And we'll just have to wait and see if the 21st century produces one too.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Still Doesn't Understand


Hey chase.. !

Still don't understand, how do you mange your time.. ?
You have promised to write about it. You said that you added it to your do-list.
At least give us some brief introduction about management. I am so curious to know it.

Cheers.. !

Chase Amante's picture

Time Management

Author

Anon-

Have you seen this article?: "Time Efficiency Done Right"

Aside from that, an article is upcoming, but some of the main tools I use for time management are:

  • Drawing up a fresh to-do list (from scratch, always) every morning

  • Tackling the hardest / most stressful items of the day first

  • Scheduling all time sinks after important items (e.g., email comes only after big, important things are done)

  • Saving smaller, fun items as rewards for after I'm done the hard stuff

  • Trying to complete one big item before lunch every day, so that even if I'm sluggish in the afternoon, the day was still productive

  • Routinely bringing on staffers / outsourcers to take over work that takes up time and distracts from working on the main priorities

  • Always having one "big objective" for the month that is a major project I'm working on executing and having wrapped up by month's end - that way, no matter how caught up I am in day-to-day activities, I'm always putting time into building something important for the future that a deadline is looming on

That's just a rough idea - and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who are time management experts who can give a better outline on how to do things. But I will get my crack at it up on here in the not-too-distant future.

Chase

V's picture

Starting not to care anymore... plz help me to


I don't know what's going on chase, but im starting not to care about getting this skill set down anymore, I really don't want to approach and I don't want to deal with the learning curves of rejections flakes and all of the emotional draining.

I just feel like getting girls to approach me and it being easier since there chasing, too me it takes way too much effort to fight through the aa and to make a good first impression, it's just very overwhelming to me and idk what happened but I just lost the feeling to learn this stuff because, I guess I feel I can't do it and I don't do it, I rarely approach, but I only do it here and there when I feel like it.

Chase, please help me change how I feel and get down hard on this skill set, I want to get better and better. Its just as of late I stopped caring and I don't know why. Please help me out chase to care and to approach.

Mostly my problem is I really don't feel confident to approach, and I feel like why bother to get rejected feel bad and make your confidence go down even more. I reject myself before I even get rejected.

Thank you chase

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