Why Girls Like Bad Boys


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I've been pretty into TRON: Legacy lately. The visuals and audio are spectacular, so that's partly why I like it so much. Another big part of the reason though is that unlike most Hollywood movies, its hero (Sam Flynn, played by Garrett Hedlund) isn't a pushover and doesn't get sensitive and emotional about trivial stuff. He's in-control, laid back, and down-to-Earth. He cracks jokes at times other people are stressing out and losing their heads. He wins despite the circumstances. In other words, he's cool. And in other words, he's a bad boy.

Even back when I was awful with girls, I still was never a "nice guy." I spent enough time watching TV and movies to know that being a nice guy didn't work. Girls like bad boys. And nice guys finish last.

Being the nice guy sucks. We talked about it in yesterday's post about the sad tale of Shopping Guy; nice guys end up holding the bag.

It's the bad boys who win; the rogues, the rascals. Guys like Sam Flynn or James Bond. Guys like Wolverine from the X-Men. Men who can't be tamed or taught or tied down. Just... held onto for a while, before the wild calls them away once more.

But, Average Joe might protest, why do women like these guys so much? It doesn't make sense. They aren't safe. They can't be a good provider; they can't take care of a girl. They never promise her the world; even if they do, girls know they can't and won't deliver on that promise. Bad boys are the antithesis of everything the nice, friendly, safe provider-types strive to embody.

And yet, in the competition for women's hearts, they win. Hands down. 99 times out of 100.

Why is this? Why do girls like bad boys so much?



An Ordinary Life

Think of the average gal's day.

She wakes up, pours a bowl of cereal and maybe some milk or orange juice, shuffles into the bathroom in a fog, brushes her teeth, goes back outside. Pulls on her bra and panties; a blouse; slacks. Grabs her handbag.

Double-checks her cell phone to make sure she's got it and she hasn't missed any messages or important calls. Nope. Just one missed call from that nice guy friend of hers who's been calling her incessantly; she's tried to distance herself from him but he doesn't seem to get it.

Goes outside, gets in her car and drives to class or to work. Sits at a desk all day, taking notes or smashing keys on a computer. Hour lunch break in the middle of the day, where she has a soda and a sandwich and maybe some dessert. Back to the grind in the afternoon.

At the end of the day, home again. Her friends want to know if she wants to go see a movie. No, she's got some work she has to do. Okay, they say, they'll tell her if it's any good.

Nice guy calls again; she feels guilty about ignoring his calls, so answers and talks to him for ten minutes or so. The call's a little awkward, but at least she doesn't feel as guilty anymore. They hang up. She turns on the TV and watches one of her usual shows, and throws on a microwave dinner while she does. She eats it.

After her show's over and her dinner's finished, she does that work she meant to do, then hops in the shower. Blow dries her hair when she's done. Puts on her pajamas, sets the alarm for 7:00 AM, goes to bed.

Rinse and repeat tomorrow. And the next day. And the next. Ad infinitum.

Sounds eminently boring and average, right? But do you know why? Ever sit and think about it?

What makes a boring, average, ordinary life so boring, average and ordinary?

Got your answer yet?

Here, I'll tell you what it is:

Lack of new stimuli.

That's all. Expanded upon a bit, that means:

  • She isn't encountering anything new, different, confusing, or exciting.
  • She isn't learning.
  • She isn't going on any adventures.

Her life is the same, every day. And every man she meets is the same, too.

They're all harmless, boring nice guys with nothing exciting or exotic or stimulating about them. They can't teach her anything new, and they aren't introducing her to anything approximating adventure.

They're just... ordinary.

And where's the excitement in an ordinary life filled with ordinary people?

The answer is, of course, that there is none.



Why Girls Like Bad Boys

Now imagine our average gal living an average life happens to meet a man of adventure. A man of mystery and intrigue. A bad boy, if you will. A guy like Sam Flynn.

Maybe she meets him one night at a local bar. Or maybe she meets him out on the street one day. Or while buying groceries. The point is, she meets him.

And something is different about him. Perhaps he has an accent from some exotic land, or perhaps he simply carries himself a little taller and a little prouder and he talks a little differently, with more colorful, expressive language and a clear, impressive voice. Or she notices his casual demeanor and somewhat bored look and general indifference to the things everyone else around her is caught up in and treating with such great importance. Whatever it is she sees in him, there's a fire in his eye that the ordinary men living ordinary lives she meets just don't have.

Instantly, she's intrigued. And she isn't intrigued a little bit more than if she met an ordinary guy. She's a lot more intrigued. Orders of magnitude more.

Because ordinary guys don't make her feel anything. But this guy makes her feel excited. Hopeful, perhaps. Hopeful that he is everything she imagines he could be.

Remember that excitement and hopefulness girls feel when they meet a guy who seems different, because we'll come back to it in a moment. For now, I want to continue fleshing out why exactly women like bad boys.

There is probably a limitless number of reasons why women prefer bad boys to nice guys. Let's go over the main ones here:

  • They're different and uncommon. The fact is, the vast majority of men are nice, unassuming, friendly guys totally lacking in any kind of an "edge" with women. And women get familiar with this type of man quickly and know what to expect with him – and they know what they'll get with him is not exciting. It's very calm, normal, and average. Bad boys, though, they're different, and women don't meet a whole lot of them. Bad boys are wildcards. They could be scoundrels with hearts of gold, or they could be merciless hedonists or cold-hearted users and abusers. A girl doesn't know, and that's part of the excitement.
  • They're refreshingly emotionally secure. Women are used to having to walk on eggshells, at least somewhat, around nice guys. If they say or do the wrong thing, a nice guy gets upset, or angry, or jealous, or defensive. But bad boys shrug off the things women say with a "girls are silly and cute" mentality that, while it might sound dismissive written down there, women actually tend to really love in men. It lets them be free and let them say and do what they like without the fear of offending or hurting the feelings of the man they're talking to.
  • They're honest and confident. Just like women have to walk on eggshells around normal guys, normal guys are typically on eggshells around women, too. They don't want to say the wrong thing and piss a girl off, and they don't want to risk appearing too interested in sex or in women themselves and risk their harmless nice-guy status. Bad boys don't care about any of that. They laugh at girls getting pissed off at them – it's silly and cute when it happens – and they want women to understand they're interested in sex and in women themselves. Because of this, they're very open, honest, and confident in their dealings with women, and women feel this – and love it.
  • Expectations are lower with them – from both sides. Nice guys tend to have unrealistic expectations of women: they often expect women to be these virginal, untouched perfect angels on best behavior at all times who always look beautiful and are responsible and mature. Nice guys also tend to expect a woman's full attention more often than not, and panic when they aren't getting it. Finally, they usually want a relationship right away, and will even chase for a relationship themselves, often before even having taken a girl to bed.

    Bad boys don't have or do any of this. Their expectations and standards are far more realistic and much closer to the way women actually are – because they're based in real world experience rather than on television and movie portrayals of how women ought to be, like many nice guys' expectations are. They don't worry about not having a woman's full attention at all times, and maybe could even care less if they have it or not. And a relationship is, quite often, the last thing on their minds, instead letting women chase for the relationship – which women will tell you they don't like having to do, but you'll notice they value relationships with the men they have to chase for far more highly than the men they don't.

    At the same time, nice guys, if they manage to be attractive in addition to being nice, have the potential to make good boyfriends or husbands, and women put a lot of pressure on themselves not to mess up with them and to portray their best selves at all times. With bad boys, there usually isn't much of a future a girl sees, so she can just relax and be real and honest with them without worrying about positioning herself as the ideal girlfriend or wife candidate.

I guess you could sum it up by saying it's a combination of the newness and unexpectedness of the bad boy with the comfort and ease he puts women in. He's exciting and refreshingly different, and at the same time he isn't heaping women with his expectations of them and getting upset if they don't meet them. Women can both find something new and just be themselves around him – and that's quite a rare thing for women to find in a man.

No wonder girls like bad boys.



How to Be a Bad Boy

Girls don't like nice guys. Girls do like bad boys. That means you ought to go turn yourself into a complete jerk, right?

No, that's not what that means. One of the tragic downfalls of human logic is the tendency to default to black-and-white thinking. "If women don't like nice guys, I should become a total jerk and they'll love me!" That's what most guys who've been nice guys too long tend to think once they start coming to grips with how women actually choose the men they like.

But the truth is, if you want real success with women, you need to go one better than jerk; you need to be a guy who's both cool and charming. Your choices aren't actually only between sweet, harmless nice guy and cold, manipulative jerk.

Look at the movie examples of bad boys we talked about early in this thread. James Bond. Wolverine. Sam Flynn. They're all cool, unconcerned with the stuff regular folks fret about, confident, cracking jokes in the face of danger... but they're not cold, heartless automatons. No, they have hearts – and women can sense that.

You want women to be able to sense you have a heart, but that you don't open it up so easy. That's one of the real secrets of how to be a bad boy.

Recall earlier that we discussed the mixture of excitement and hopefulness a woman feels when she first meets a guy who seems like a bit of a bad boy. There's a very good reason why women feel both excitement and hopefulness when they meet a new guy they think they might like: it's because he seems like he might be what they're looking for, but they don't know for sure yet whether he is or isn't.

It's all too often a girl meets a guy, thinks he has mountains of potential, then realizes as she gets to know him a bit that he doesn't quite meet the expectations she had for him at first meeting.

This realization will help you to understand the two areas you need to focus on as you seek to be the kind of man women find most compelling. Those two areas are:

  • Your presence and how you carry yourself and come off, which affects your first impression and how you are perceived subconsciously throughout an interaction and from a distance, and
  • Your presentation and how you describe yourself and interact with a woman, which affects your assessment and whether you fit with the impression you make.

Some guys have decent presence but drop the ball when it comes to actually interacting with women and matching their impressive first impressions. Girls get to know them and find out they're actually quite ordinary and unexciting, and these kinds of guys get slotted into "normal guy" territory and judged accordingly.

Some other men have good presentation but are lacking in presence. These are the guys that women say, "I didn't realize when I meet him how charming/sexy/intelligent/cool he was!" They're the guys who are capable of winning women over once women get to know them.

Presence opens more doors, but presentation is what gets you through an open door. With good presence but no presentation, you'll get a lot of open doors, but few successes in getting through those doors. With good presentation but no presence, you'll do great once you've found an open door, but you'll really struggle to get doors open in the first place.

The key then is to focus on developing both your presence and your presentation. You want to become a man who's both visually, viscerally compelling, and compelling once a girl starts actually getting to know him.

To do that, you'll want to focus on a few things:

Getting those four things down goes a long way toward handling both your presence and your presentation. As you handle these areas, you'll increasingly place yourself further along the road to being one of those bad boys that women like so much – and eventually you'll find you start getting considered one outright. Mindsets are important to get down too, but that comes as much from experience as anything else. Check out the post on abundance mentality to get a better understanding of the kind of mentality you should seek to cultivate as you improve with women.

I get called "bad boy" or "bad guy" a lot, and also get told by the same women who call me these things that I'm a "very good guy" and am "very warm." So just keep in mind that "bad boy" doesn't mean bad, per se. Rather, what a girl is talking about when she says a guy is a "bad boy" is just that he's different, exciting, refreshing, and he isn't like all the other ordinary guys she meets in her likely very ordinary life. He's an exceptional individual – and you ought to always want to be a guy like that anyway. Seek excellence in presence and in presentation, and you will become the kind of man women find most thrilling.

Always,
Chase Amante

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Comments

Sam's picture

Hi Chase, Just wanted to say


Hi Chase,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice and content you post here. Some of this stuff is pure gold because I have had a few "ah ha" moments, especially about the interchangeability of value and good feelings, and this I think will take my game to a better level. More importantly though, it has greatly increased my understanding of relationships, not because you didn't know this, but you "just couldn't put it into words".

Another thing I learned here was that I was making the mistake of investment, but from what I have read here, there are a few things to fix here and there on this part. Can you please write up a comprehensive post on investment? (haven't come across one here yet) And some of the dos and don'ts of it. You did mention in one of your posts (chase framing post) your would write about "comprehensive investment / compliance post".

You probably hear a lot of praise, but I'm just putting it out there that this is indeed great stuff. I honestly do wish I had come across your site earlier. All in all, you now have a regular reader.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Hi Chase, Just wanted to say

Author

Howdy Sam; you're very welcome. Thanks for reading, and glad you've gotten some value out of the site.

Sure, yeah, I've been meaning to get to doing some more writing on investment; I'll look to make that the subject of my next blog post. Investment/compliance is actually a HUGE topic, so I probably couldn't do one full post to do the whole thing (unless it was like a 30,000 word post... yikes), but I'll try and zero in on the aspect of it I think it sounds like you're most interested in next (the, "How much should I invest in a girl?" part of it).

So, I'd say look for that post in a couple of days or so. I'm honored to have you as a regular reader on here; hope the upcoming post on investment doesn't disappoint!

Chase

Sam's picture

I forgot to mention one small


I forgot to mention one small thing in my comment. Please excuse the grammar since I typed it up in a bit of a hurry.

Ana's picture

hey guys, hey chase


Hello guys, I am Ana, so a girl, and I got to this topic and link, when I got a question from a friend of mine who was complaining: "why girls are wanting always the bad guys?" So, I had my own explination , asa girl, pretty close to yours, but not so elaborated. And i decided to look over the internet. Among others, I found this link, and I honestly say that I find myself as a woman in everything you say. So, I passes by to also thank you and tell you that you do a great job. Hugs from Romania.

Harry's picture

a natural


I was swiping my fathers car at 13 and driving by night. At 14 I had biceps the size of a professional middle weight boxer and thats about what I looked like, working out 3 hours a day every day. I could pin my father to the floor and I sometimes did exactly that. I was a good guy with a good heart living among neighbors who were like jackals. I was hitting clubs in SF and getting picked up on by the ladies before I was out of high school. First car: convertible sportscar; First real vacation: Europe and Greek Isles. Let me tell you what I think about nice guys. They are pack animals. They are like jackals. Check out jackals in the wild bringing down lions. They are relentless. Nice guys aren't even decent human beings but cowards hiding behind a facade. Given the opportunity they will gang rape. As long as everybodies hands are dirty they figure no one can point fingers. Bad boys go it alone and live by their own code. They typically learned early in life that they could not count on or trust others so well. Nice guys and bad guys are two different species. The nice guys are like a pack of wolves. The bad boys are like lone wolves. The pack will try to hunt down the lone wolf. Another way to look at it is like this, the bad boy is like a slow moving shark. Nice guys are like swarming pirhanna fish. They are bitter and they are full of malice and resentment. They try to hide this from girls but girls can see through it. They are not nice people.

Anonymous's picture

Truth


Hell yes. It's rare you see the truth put so succinctly. But it is true. A true nice guy, with a truly good loving heart that loves girls and all people, even if he comes across as the stereotypical "nice guy" will still do pretty well with girls. But most "nice guys" are NOT nice people inside at all. And he's right that girls see through it. I've come to understand that even when you can't bullshit a girl, they see straight through it always. A guy who acts brash may win a girls heart because she admires his bravado, but they can still see straight through any bullshit.

Anonymous's picture

Is that why so many women end


Is that why so many women end up as single parents? Because they could see right through the the guy who knocked them up?

Anonymous's picture

Nah, that's due to another


Nah, that's due to another set of factors like low income, poor sex ed, poor education overall, and bad relationship role models.

For example, your (old) comment would get most college-educated women from a middle class background and good sex ed to drop you like a hot potato because your apparent bitterness increases the chances that you're going to be emotionally abusive.

Able's picture

Contradictions


Hey Chase,

I've been reading your articles and most of them has given my great insight but some has left me confused. There is one thing in this article that I have a question on. You mentioned that Bad Boys don't care and are unaffected by the way women act towards them, and that nice guys gets angry. What if the women act bitchy or treat you like a tool and if you still act like it doesn't bother you, she will continue this and make you a pushover. Isn't being a man means standing up for yourself and telling what you will tolerate and what you won't, as I have read in some of your other articles. So if the bad boys doesn't care at all on how he is being treated, wouldn't that make him a pushover? Also you mentioned that nice guys have unrealistic expectations, if anything I feel that nice guys settle for what they can get, where as bad boys strive for the perfect women who is going to take care of him so wouldn't that make bad boys as having unrealistic goals. If a bad boys is getting the hottest girls then, he must be setting higher goals than the nice guys in terms of dating. I am a nice guy at heart and I think most guys are even the bad ones but I do stand up for myself and does not tolerate any bullshit from women. Now I'm not saying that this article doesn't make sense but it confuses me a bit, if you can clear up of this a bit, I'll have a better understanding. Thank you

Nostrum's picture

Don't get angry or upset; shrug it off


You mentioned that Bad Boys don't care and are unaffected by the way women act towards them, and that nice guys gets angry.

What the article actually says is:

If they [women] say or do the wrong thing, a nice guy gets upset, or angry, or jealous, or defensive. But bad boys shrug off the things women say with a "girls are silly and cute" mentality …

Note that “shrug it off” entails not taking it seriously.

So to your question:

What if the women act bitchy or treat you like a tool and if you still act like it doesn't bother you, she will continue this and make you a pushover.

How did you get to be a pushover if you didn't take the nasty remarks seriously? It sounds like you've got a picture of someone actually taking the nasty remarks on board and changing the relationship.

Rather, the article is advising that you shrug it off when the woman behaves this way.

If she's not serious and you shrug it off, it will pass and you have shown her you won't obsess about every slip. If she was serious and you shrug it off, she'll press the issue. At that point, you still don't get angry; you just walk away and end the relationship.

In neither case do you get angry or upset, and in neither case are you a pushover. You're cool and in control of yourself, without trying to control her.

Anonymous's picture

Flaw in your article


There's one really bad contradiction in your article.

"Guys like Sam Flynn or James Bond. Guys like Wolverine from the X-Men."

"Bad boys don't have or do any of this. Their expectations and standards are far more realistic and much closer to the way women actually are – because they're based in real world experience rather than on television and movie portrayals of how women ought to be, like many nice guys' expectations are."

So it's bad for guys to have expectations from movies, yet girls have expectations from movies. You can't say that one is good and one is bad. It's literally the same thing.

You're entire argument is what is called the straw man, which is considered a logical fallacy. You are wording the bad boy traits as good, and the good guy traits as bad. So by beating up on the good guy it makes you seem more right.

Chase Amante's picture

@ Flaw in your article

Author

Anon,

Good try! However:

1. Me stating that there are examples of attractive men in the movies is not a contradiction of me stating that the movies unrealistically portray women's relationship with nice guys. Your argument assumes I must make either a blanket acceptance or a blanket rejection of all movie representations of all disparate kinds of individuals, which is an indefensible position.

2. Nowhere in the post do I say that it's good for women to have expectations from movies. If you're wondering why I don't write, "Women: stop having expectations from movies!" it's because this is a men's dating advice website, not many women read it, and the advice on here is designed to make men better with women, not the other way around.

3. Contrasting the nice guy's performance with women with the bad boy's performance with women could be construed as a straw man - if I misrepresented either the bad boy or the nice guy or I failed to make any actual arguments stating why women are attracted to bad boys. So which is it you're proposing I misrepresented - is it that the nice guy is actually a steaming sexy turn-on for women, or is it that bad boys fail to create any stirrings in women's hearts via the points listed under the subheading "Why Girls Like Bad Boys?"

Ciao,
Chase

Sydney Woman's picture

You've got to be kidding


If you think women dont read your blog, you're really uninformed.

Your blog is brilliant in helping us understand what makes us tick. It's just a little embarrassing that a guy is teaching us this. There's at least 20 women I know who read your articles. Infact we are signed up to your newsletter too - I like how you refer to us as males....always wanted to be one of the guys lol

I think all articles that refer to women liking bad boys should be re-headed (is that a word) to

"Why women don't like needy insecure low value men and desire men who are confident in all aspects of his life"

I like how you wrote it's not black or white, we like something in the middle, kind but confident is the best to aim for. Almost all women who are secure in themselves (without abandonment issues, issues surrounding how they look etc) ABSOLUTELY LOVE (adore, admire and respect) a guy who 1. looks after himself physically 2 career focussed 3. extremely confident, so much so that he laughs off anything that's disrespectful towards him 4. loyalty to his woman (try not to ogle at other women and she will feel very very loved - few men know how to make a woman feel this type of loyalty and you stand out from all the other men pursuing her).

Anonymous's picture

Why do girls like bad boys.


Well Chase I totally agree I was a wimp and it didn't get me any where with women.Now that has change I woke up one day and totally change. I learnt to be the bad boy girls like, how first of all I stopped being nice and caring.So your nice that don't mean she's going to be, First thing I don't dress to give the impression I'm nice, I don't just give women attention,she has to earn it when I see a girl is pulling my leg and not being serious I stop paying attention.I also avoid being put in the friend zone how by just not being a girls friend,you have to learn to play the part. With nice guys they always make the woman to be more important than them. Never say hi to a Lady first,Never ask for her number always give yours,Never ask if she has a boyfriend she will think you want a relationship which will make her run for the hills. I'm 36 and when I go into the city I get attention from very young girls I dress the part and girls beg me not to cut my beard they like my rough looks.

Anonymous's picture

The confident bad boy


I like the bad boy thing I learnt it from my friends the way girls seem to warm up to you when she sees your not boring or trying to chase her. I found that women see bad boys as a force to reckon with. He never acts soft or afraid and don't literally wants anyone acceptance,he does his own thing instead of tying to blend in. Girls feel secure and protected around him which a lot of people don't seem to understand.He's kind of a dare devil,popular and people seem to look up to him which is a big plus to women that they are not standing next to a wuss. He is also easy to talk to and never seems to want to be in the same place for two long. I applied these things and trust me they work not only do women like warm up to me, they try to fit in my space.

Anonymous's picture

How to be warm and bad


Chase I read your article on being warm and I liked it, but I am not sure how to be a warm person and a bad boy. Any thoughts?

Alex Chipenko's picture

Becoming the infamous "bad boy"


Hey Chase,

I've been looking at your website for roughly 6-7 months now and it has made a huge difference. I am a high-school student and at this point can talk to girls easy, and bedding them is no particular challenge is this: my good friend is the most popular kid in school, and in high school, it seems as though the most popular kid gets the most sex and girls. If this is true, how exactly can I become that most popular kid in school, dethroning my friend of his status of being most popular, and how to play the high school dating game as well in order to get the most hookups.

With warm regards,
Alex Chipenko

Anonymous's picture

Move girls


Hey Chase,

I need your help about moving girls.
Will you please explain that "How i can move with girls INTELLIGENTLY?"

Pls reply.

Anonymous's picture

heyy chase...i seem to make a


heyy chase...i seem to make a good first impression(thats what i have been told) but what i feel is i lack the skills to take things forward..your advice is much needed bro..!

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