Why Chasing Women Doesn’t Work and Why Persistence Does

We've had a few questions on here lately about the difference between chasing women vs. persisting with women. A few weeks back William B. raised the point when I asked for ideas on what the new forum's bonus book should be on:

I'd like to see something fleshing out the nuances between chasing and persistence.

And more recently, a commenter on the article on how to find the woman you want asked:

I guess what i want to know is how does all this play in with not chasing her...if you leave enough time between your proposals it doesn't count as chasing?

I've seen a few other people ask about it on other articles as well.

What's the difference between chasing women and persisting with them, anyway? Aren't they one and the same?

chasing women

Actually, the two are VERY different - and women are right for desiring persistent men to a point... and fleeing from men who chase after that point.

Let's have a look at why that is, and how you can better walk the line between chasing and persistence.

chasing women

First off, I want to say this: I don't think there's any guy out there in the world who likes chasing women.

And by "chasing women," I don't mean that in the vaguely sarcastic tone of your buddy who's really good at picking up girls. When he says, "Let's go chase some women," what he really means is, "Let's go make some women helplessly attracted to us then go take them home."

When I say "chasing women," what I'm referring to is the guy who's pursuing a woman who isn't his, is acting cold or distant or aloof to him, and is not giving him nearly what he wants from her... a man who isn't in control.

What I'm talking about with chasing is when a man desperately wants a woman who doesn't want him.

If you've ever chased a woman before - and most guys have, no need to feel too ashamed about it - you can probably think back on the emotions you felt about it and realize that it didn't feel all that great. Nowhere did you get emotions like, "Wow, this is wonderful!" Instead, all you feel while chasing are feelings of:

  • Confusion
  • Uncertainty
  • Panic
  • Fear
  • Loss
  • Need
  • Desperation

These are a deep, dark hole of bad emotions that drive you into feeling worse about yourself, and doing things very wrong with a girl from the point of being attractive.

Chasing is very unattractive to women.

It's off-putting.

But if it's so horribly ineffective a behavior, why do men do it?

The Psychology of Chasing

From what I've seen, the vast, vast majority of women who are chased by men are single women... women unattached from a committed marriage or relationship partner. I haven't seen many married women with a man chasing desperately after them, but I have seen many single women with chasers in hot pursuit.

Why might this be?

My theory is, the same "philosophy of women" that inspires a man to chase after an unattached woman also dissuades him from interest in an attached one.

The theory goes like this:

"Once I have a woman, she will be MINE FOREVER!"

The corollary to that, of course, is:

"Once a woman is with a man, she will NEVER LEAVE HIM."

I don't think all men who chase women regularly and desperately think this way, but for a guy who's a habitual chaser or chases women over a long period of time, from what I've seen it's usually the mindset. A woman is something to be acquired, and once she is acquired, the acquisition is permanent.

So, if a woman is attached, to the chaser, she is off the market and unattainable; if she's unattached, however, then it's a mad-grab free-for-all to acquire her, and whoever ends up with her at the end gets to keep her.

If you're mildly unnerved by all this talk of "acquiring" and "keeping," you should be; it's an incorrect view of women, but its one that men who chase seem normally to possess in spades.

Here's the really scary part for women - according to the paper "Courtship Behaviors, Relationship Violence, and Breakup Persistence in College Men and Women" by Stacey L. Williams and Irene Hanson Frieze, chasing is linked to violence... have a look:

This study assessed college men's (n= 85) and women's (n= 215) courtship persistence behaviors (approach, surveillance, intimidation, mild aggression), which have been linked to stalking, and examined their relations to initial courtship interest, relationship development, and future violence and persistence, while also exploring the role of gender in these relations. Findings showed individuals performed surveillance when initially more interested than the other. Whereas approach behaviors were positively associated with relationship establishment, surveillance and intimidation were negatively associated. As predicted, results showed continuity in persistence and violence over the course of dating relationships. For both genders, courtship mild aggression predicted relationship violence, and persistence behaviors predicted similar persistence at breakup. Early behaviors may foreshadow violence and stalking-related behaviors in both men and women.

Here, the study breaks "persistence" down into multiple subcategories:

  • Approach
  • Surveillance
  • Intimidation
  • Mild Aggression

In the study, the researchers define each subcategory as follows:

  • Approach: sending notes, doing unrequested favors, attempting to communicate, asking the person out as a friend and asking the person out as a date.

  • Surveillance: waiting where the person would be, going by the residence, showing up at events where the person would be, doing an activity to be closer to the person, asking friends about the person, and asking friends to talk to the person.

  • Intimidation: following the person, taking the person’s belongings, trying to manipulate the person into dating you, and spying on the person.

  • Mild aggression: trying to scare the person, making threats, threatening to hurt emotionally, threatening to damage belongings, threatening to hurt someone else, threatening to hurt oneself, verbally abusing the person, physically harming slightly, and physically harming more than slightly.

As an interesting aside, the researchers further noted, on differences between male and female courtship behaviors, that

[M]ales perform more approach, or regular courtship behaviors, whereas females are more likely to perform acts of surveillance, that is, attempts to make indirect contact with the love interest by way of (seeming) serendipity.

Obviously, intimidation and mild aggression are pretty bad. Surveillance isn't terribly good either, as you're "pretending" it's fate while hiding true desires; women are more guilty of this one than men are, and according to the research there's less a chance that it leads to a relationship than a healthy interaction where the behavior isn't needed or used.

So what's all this have to do with chasing women vs. persisting with women?

Simple - this quote from the study:

During the earliest stages of courtship, a one-sided initial interest (i.e., a scenario in which one potential partner is more interested than the other) may reflect this unrequited love scenario and result in intensified initial courtship behaviors. Behaviors used to attract the potential partner may include stalking-related behaviors.

What Williams and Frieze are saying here is this: intensified initial courtship behaviors (chasing) are the result of unrequited love.

The difference between chasing and persistence is that chasing is one-sided interest and highly emotional, while persistence is largely mutual, and it's largely unemotional.

chasing women

What's the difference between a man who stands there at the end of a date or the end of the night, persisting in his insistence that a woman accompany him home, as we discussed in "Don't Let Her Go," and a man who continues to chase women long after it's clear they simply aren't interested?


The man who persists at the end of the night doesn't persist because he's deeply, ravishingly in love with a girl; he persists because he's trained himself to do it. Most men replete with unrequited love will not insist a girl do ANYTHING; they simply bug her and beg her and bother her in the hopes that somehow that will change her mind.

And that's the biggest difference between a persistent man and a man chasing women: the persistent man persists when it COUNTS.

The chasing man persists everywhere ELSE.

chasing women

Imagine you meet a girl. She's pretty, flirty, fun. You're really tired the night you meet her; you had a long day; and you really aren't feeling that great. You guys hit it off, but eventually you can hardly keep your eyes open, and you decide that, despite this cute girl in front of you, the only thing you want to do now is go home and hit the hay.

Now let's say it can go in one of two possible directions:

  1. You tell her you're leaving, and she says, "No, stay. We're having a great time right now; I know you're tired but you can sleep later. Let's keep spending time together right now."

  2. You tell her you're leaving, and she says, "Okay." The two of you trade phone numbers. After you leave, you get a text message from her right away saying how much she liked meeting you and she hopes she'll see you soon. The next morning you have a text from her, saying, "Hey, how's it going?" Later she tries calling you to ask you out, but you're busy. Then you see she added you on Facebook. Suddenly, she's calling you, texting you, Facebook stalking you, and all the rest.

Which of these girls is more attractive to you?

That example makes it night and day, doesn't it... who wants to be on the receiving end of #2 (if you're currently frustrated with women / feeling a little desperate, you don't count! People only get into chase dynamics with individuals they can't get, rather than those eager to be with them)? There are other directions that scenario above could've gone too, of course (e.g., you leave and she never gets in touch; you leave and the two of you run into each other again later somewhere else; etc.), but for our purposes I wanted to contrast persistence with chasing for you there.

Chasing is what's known as unrequited love, although it's really a form of infatuation. Chasing is NOT love, though many in pursuit of their object of desire will call it that and think it that. But as we talked about in the article on when you can't stop thinking about her, this isn't real love, and often you don't even really know HER at ALL... it's simply obsession with some idealized, fantastical version of her cooked up in your head.

Women know this. They know it isn't them a chasing man wants... it's a fantasy woman that he's imagined is them.

Sometimes it's initially cute; "Oh how cute, he's really got a thing for me, hasn't he?" Then it's annoying, once the cuteness wears off. And if it continues on long enough, and becomes intense enough, it can even become bothersome or scary.

Most men chasing after women never reach the point of things becoming so extreme that it's an inconvenience to a woman's life or that she actually becomes afraid. But a LOT of men chase women enough to start annoying them.

Is there a chance you've done this before?

Board Another Plane

Chasing is not attractive... we've established that. You need to quit doing it.

Especially for emotional men, this isn't always easy. Readers regularly post comments on this site about how they know they should stop chasing after some girl, but they just can't help themselves. Chasing is addictive.

Where chasing comes from, in my opinion, is realizing that you might've had a shot, but didn't take it. Almost every man I've seen chasing women was chasing women that he'd say, "I could've had her... I SHOULD'VE had her! But I let her get away!"

This inability to let go, coupled with a feeling that she is there, within reach, seems to push men over the edge and turn them into pursuers. There is a desire to get her, keep her, and snap her up before she gets snapped up "for good."

Of course, this ignores the fact that attraction has an expiration date; it ignores the principle of escalation windows, that once a window has closed, it's more or less closed for good.

Chasing after women fails to get the chaser women, then, because it is too little, too late.

It's like trying to convince the check-in clerk to get the flight team to turn the airplane you were too late to board around and pick you back up after the plane's already off the tarmac and up in the air. You might be the most convincing man in the world, but it's probably not going to happen; and besides, there's someone else in your seat anyway.

So what do you do? You board another plane.

chasing women

At this point, you've got a handle on what chasing is and why it's bad. Chasing usually happens when:

  • A girl likes you, to some extent, or seems to
  • You fail to make a move or miss an obvious sign
  • You beat yourself up for it later, and resolve to get her
  • You start trying to get her any way you can - calling, texting, etc.
  • You refuse to give up on this girl, convinced you'll win her heart, despite the fact that she is not reciprocating

So what do you do instead?

Here's what persistence - proper persistence, not pursuing uninterested women - is all about:

  1. Acting now and not later. The thing that gets most men into trouble (chasing women) in the first place is a lack of proper persistence the first time around. Whether because the man is slow to realize he likes a girl, or hesitant about taking action and leading women, or simply doesn't know how to recognize how girls show interest, one way or another, he doesn't move fast and he doesn't make things happen when he has the chance to.

    Persistence is all about acting now. What the persistent man knows that other men don't is that when he gets a chance with a girl, it's probably going to be his ONLY chance with that girl. Opportunity knocks once, but if you don't welcome it in on its first visit, it goes and finds someone else a little more welcoming and stops coming by. Tomorrow never comes; if you have a chance to be with a girl now, then... be with her.

  2. Establishing leadership and staying on-target. Men who chase are lost; they flail about, unsure of what they're doing, hoping that if they can just talk to women enough or be around them enough or send them enough text messages or emails that those women are going to decide they're the men of their dreams and leap into their arms. Except... it doesn't work like that.

    You're the man, you must lead. That means that if you don't know where you're going... then you're not going anywhere. You need to be moving girls; you need to be progressing toward an end point; and you need to be focused on how you'll close an interaction (e.g., getting a phone number or taking a girl to bed), then doing it and keeping follow-up contact to a minimum until you're ready for the next step (e.g., the next time you'll see her).

  3. Being willing to walk away and meet someone else. Contrary to what most chasing men think, women are not a scarce resource. They are abundant; they're everywhere! A man needs to be prepared to walk away from a woman who will not come with him; who won't give him her phone number, who won't go on a date with him, who won't accompany him home, who won't become her lover.

    You cannot get every woman you want; in fact, you'll walk away from quite a few. And that's fine... so long as you continue to meet new girls, because as you meet new women, you'll learn and refine your process, and get better at persisting right away with women who are interested in you or on the fence, and dropping girls and moving on who aren't.

Those three are all huge differences between the man who chases and the man who persists, but the last one is arguably the biggest: men who persist properly are willing and free to move on at a moment's notice; men who chase are not.

There's one more thing that persistent men know that chasing men don't, though.

Why Chasing Women is Silly (and Wastes Your Time)

What persistent men, and men more talented with women, know is this:

If she wants to be with you, it won't be that hard!

chasing women

It doesn't take weeks or months or years of pursuing a girl to get her. I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard a man tell me he chased a girl for a long time and finally got her, and I've heard thousands of men's stories about the women they got together with. The long sought romance that finally became real: it doesn't happen.

If a girl likes you, if she has any desire to be with you, it's not going to take a month or more to happen, unless YOU are really slow. And if you are really slow, she'll almost certainly have lost interest by the time you get around to doing what you should've done much earlier on, and she'll be lost (never to return).

Chasing women isn't just annoying for the girl, and futile for you. It wastes your precious time, in addition to everything else.

You only have a short amount of time on this rock to do the things you want to do. If you spend months or years of your life pursuing some other human being who has no interest in you, you might as well have spent that time sitting in a prison cell, or in a coma. It's time wasted, flushed down the drain, tossed away like yesterday's newspaper. It's gone, and you got nothing back for it.

She was out partying with some guy she likes, didn't notice or care that you texted her, and you were sitting at home waiting to hear back, imagining a life together with her.

But you could be out meeting women who like you... women who want you... women it isn't too late with yet, where you can move faster, take action, and make something real with.

It isn't hard to get together with girls. And if you realize you've put a lot of time into a girl... you've chased after her... you've worked hard to get her... and you're still nowhere with her (e.g., you're not lovers, not romantic partners, you're still "working on" her), it's time to cut the chord.

Back when I was inexperienced in the ways of women and dating, I overheard a conversation between two men about a girl one of the men had met. "This other guy's been working on her for a couple of weeks, so I'm not sure if I should go for her since he's already got a head start," the first man said.

The second man laughed. "A couple of weeks? Go for her. If that other guy was EVER going to get her, he'd already HAVE her."

When I heard this, even back then, I knew he was right. All the guys I'd seen "working on" girls... all the girls I'd spent time "working on"... it never worked out. The girls you got were the ones it happened relatively quickly with... and if it didn't happen within a few weeks max, it didn't happen.

So don't waste time, and don't make things harder than they need to be. Life's too short to spend your ticking clock on people who don't want to be with you. Spend it on the ones who do - and on finding them, if there aren't any around at the moment. And, move fast and take action - you've got better things to do than chase around some girl who's busy living her life while you dream idle dreams of her.

Persist - but don't chase.

Chase Amante

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.


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Maxz's picture

Best post ever Chase!

I'm currently living through this. I've been dying to be with this girl I met in college in the past few months, she at first seemed to show interest even though she mentioned loosely that she had a boyfriend. We traded a few text messages and then suddenly she just stopped responding, she snapped at me out of the blue when I tried to talk to her in class. Crosses her arms defensively, and won't look me in the eye. Started to ignore me in class. I did ask her out before these behaviors kicked in, so I suppose it might be auto-rejection. And I think I was guilty of sending her some not so nice text messages, came of like a jerk I think. Wished I had discovered you before sending out those messages. And I've been thinking about sending her another text message to see if she responds, but after reading this I know it is over. Time to move on.

Thanks Chase, Love this site. I read it on a dialy basis.

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Maxz,

Yeah, those always suck. Especially when you see the girl repeatedly in class... bit of a constant reminder.

The good news is, there are plenty more to come (both girls than end up crossing their arms and shutting down, and girls you snap up before that can happen).

And yeah, it does sound like auto-rejection - she wanted you before, but it didn't happen fast enough. Take the lesson from it (move faster next time) and use it with the next girl.


Anonymous's picture

Hey chase, I have an issue there is this girl at work that I've been pursuing, I cant get her out on a date things always come up for both of us, she flakes as well with long explanations over text why she couldn't make it. Granted I only text her to ask her out or ask her in person and when we hang at work she very compliant when I ask her to lunch she has blown off other Suitors to go to lunch with me . but eating lunch at work we don't get to much alone time the lunch room is set up like high school. I can also touch her in intimate places like her hair, ass and it's greeted with a smile. However I'm not sure her flaking is hard to get or a game being time has passed and I haven't gotten her outside to date or kiss her,

Strong Silent_Type's picture

I like this post you have written but i have one question i am a very persistent guy a couple of girl told me before but now i am dealing with a situation that this girl i like she lives in another country and i am trying to win her heart but i cant do much since we communicating over messages, is it any other way i can go by doing this i do not really want to cut ties with her please if you can give me any suggestions i am willing to take it.


KMartin Gardner's picture

Yeah, you definitely don't want to send anymore text messages. In the last year or so, most states have passed electronic harassment laws which are very loosely worded and always, always, as always, favor the female. And they all know this now. And women love passive aggressive power. She is more than happy to turn you into an object, that creepy guy who sent creepy texts. And that is just what she will tell the magistrate, or the school dean, and there is zero tolerance for cyberbullying these days because these crybbaby bitches know that they can get any guy in trouble at any time at the drop of a hat. And that is just what they will do. It's a different world, my friend.

Curious George 's picture

I don't know if you got my pervious message but my device froze and when I tried sending you it I was told it was spam, so what ever I did wrong my bad!

I just have Two questions. 1. Is this chasing if you cant get intimate with a girl at work your workplace because she's over you?(which is why it's kinding of taking long because are jobs are at risk but we still do stuff were not allowed to do.)

2. How does this girl feel about me chase? She gives me a lot of investment but this one time she flipped out on me telling me I'm trying to use her and why can't I ask anyone else to do what she's doing. I never tried taking advantage of her she just never said the word no ever to me even during that time. She told me I make her late for things, that what I ask is out of her way and that she doesn't do this for Any one else and thattabs will never do anything for me again it's really important. I remember when you said a girl giving you any kind of emotion is better than her being coy, I never try to make her angry but she gets angry and still complies. I think of her as "silly and cute". This girl inevested so much emotions towards me when she just could of said no. She said no before and I was cool with it and when I back away she comes back. How does this girls feelings sound to you? I feel like she's fighting them and if she is how can I get her to open up? Thanks chase for everything!

Chase Amante's picture

Hey George,

On 1, it's chasing if you keep investing in the pursuit without making anything happen. If you disappear and go cold for a while, then come back strong, it may not be chasing, but once she knows you like her, you've got a limited escalation window to make something happen, and then it's gone.

On 2, she sounds like she REALLY likes you and is heavily invested in you, and is angry that you're not sleeping with her yet. Essentially, she's straddling auto-rejection. When you start getting, "Look how much I've done for you!" it means she feels like she's not getting the romance / sex / relationship from you she wants. Next time she gets angry, if you want to try something really ballsy, try just staring at her for 4 or 5 seconds, letting the tension build with you not saying anything and her not saying anything, and then just grab her and kiss her. It might make her even MORE pissed off, or it might lead to some really wild passion... hard to say until you do it.

One note though - you've already set pretty bad precedent here by demanding a lot (tons of compliance) without rewarding (sex), which means if you end up in any kind of relationship with this girl, it's going to be flawed from the outset... so I recommend against that. Even sleeping with her... if she's this invested in you at this point, she's going to expect a LOT. You won't be starting off casual with her, unless you're prepared to weather some large scale drama. She feels like you're hers already, and she earned you, and you aren't putting out / holding up your end of the bargain.


Curious George 's picture

Thanks chase but I did imply that I wanted to sleep with her early on and then she said that's all I want from her cause that's all that guys want and that I mess with a lot of girls. Then she said if we were to sleep together we might as well date but then says to me we can't because she's my boss. So I was cool with it and I have rewarded her with romance but when I ask her to come over she gives me the boss excuse. She really acts like my girl with all this nagging she does, it's like a relationship without sex UGH! Should I let her cool off for a few days? And what the hell does she want from me, does she want me to ignore the excuses and Lead her to come over? I already told her I was interested but she never told me that she was or wasnt, so I figured since I didn't sleep with her I could just still be cool with her and She still likes to hang out time to time, but this last time she just went nuts.

Chase Amante's picture

Hi George,

Based on what you told me before, I assumed she was interested:

Seducing the Boss

But from what you're saying here, with how long it's dragged out and what's been said, it sounds like she just enjoys flirting with you and is getting a kick out of it. The "If we're going to sleep together, we might as well date; but we can't date, because I'm your boss!" line. If you've tried everything you can think of and it hasn't worked, it's time to write her off as a flirt and not an actual girl who's interested in you and start meeting new women.

She's probably somewhat interested in you, but she's firmly in control. Nothing's going to change until you start dating other women and she realizes she's got some competition and her flirtation no longer has you under its spell.


Curious George's picture

Ok Chase, I'm Really sorry to keep talking about this topic but Im tired of doing what I think is right but is wrong and this will be my last comment on it because I've got to really do things on my own but this is more than just her and I, I don't want any other woman to have control over me or have me under some "spell". But I'm kind of lost with the control and spell part, how do you not let a girl control you and how do you control her? And what do you mean by a spell she has over me? She's flipping out on me and doing things for me, while I don't do shit. But could you just explain how to break this spell, I think you said to break it by dating other girls but I do and how would she know? I'm thinking of just telling her to stop playing games and that I want her to come over but if she doesn't I'll just tell her to cut the flirting out and get out my face. Tell me of that sounds good. Thanks again chase, and This is my last comment on this lol.

Chase Amante's picture


You're getting it man - if this comment's any indication, you're almost there.

The "spell" thing is really a battle of wills right now. She's trying to get you wrapped up, you're trying to get her wrapped up. I call it a "spell" because you're clearly spending a lot of time thinking about her and a lot of time working on her. It may well be she's under your spell as well. But it's not a healthy dynamic for either of you, because you're just frustrating one another.

Telling her you're going to knock off the games and telling her to step up or step out is exactly the right call. It's the only way you get free of the B.S. and the back and forth - communicating to her, "Look, we can hang out, or we can not hang out, but if we're not going to hang out I don't want to keep spending time on this, it's purposeless," (maybe not in those words, but to that effect) is what you need to do.

Call her on her bluff - she's either going to get together with you, or you're going to find out it's only fun and games for her, and you'll turn your attentions elsewhere.

And she won't KNOW you have other women (unless she sees it, or you tell her), but she'll pick up on the behavioral differences between George who's only spending time with her, and George who's sleeping with a couple of new hotties he's just met and for whom this girl is becoming increasingly old news.


Anonymous's picture

I just told a guy the same thing you said: that I'm not into games and if he really wants to hang out he would, otherwise don't waste my time talking about it. He actually apologized to me after carrying this crap on for almost 2 years. Texting me out of the blue, wanting to hook up but never taking action. I have no problem with casual hook ups but talking about it for no apparent reason is beyond pointless. I finally got rid of him. So believe me, guys do this too. Weird thing is, I will never understand why he would invest his time in contacting me, over and over again, with seemingly no intention on doing anything. I think he was trying to get me to chase HIM and I don't chase any guy...ever!

Anonymous's picture

Hello, I just stumbled onto this article about avoiding chasing girls and it related so much to me right now, that reading it even brought up some deep emotions for me. But i do disagree that if you are chasing a girl its not true love, as I know that my own unrequited love interest was absolutely love but that's besides the point.

I finally got a girl in my college classes phone number, but when I got it she told M she just got out of a relationship so isn't looking for one right now. I'm tempted to just give up right there, but I'm also tempted to pursue a little but just wait a few days then make a move. Good move?

Flames's picture

Hello again Chase, another good post.

I have to admit I'm a survailance guy, i know it's not a great place to be in. :)

And your right to a certain extent that usually it come from me missing an opportunity and then going over the top in order to 'fix it'. I am however getting myself out of this habit and partially it's also because I'm that 'slow guy'. I'm looking for quality over quantity any day which means I'm probably over screening people.

One thing that pops up though for me is that in my case I am actually getting her 'investment' and interests, but it seems to always end up in these excessive push/pull matches once it goes past a certain length of time in that I'm not 'loosing them' completely but not getting any further either. In other words I'll invest upto a point and no further but they won't meet that point with me (if that makes sense).

Another thing I remember a post when you were talking about a girl at a train station you picked up and you could 'just tell' she wanted to talk with you. I'm getting so I can pick up this vibe/intuition and it's not a thing I can explain, any way you can explain it? :)

And one final thing (although im fairly sure if the answer already). what does it mean when a girl you work with shows up whenever you around, then refuses to talk with you (sometimes
turning away so you can't), but then again when your alone with her asks deep and personal


Chase Amante's picture

Hi Flames,

Quick tip on the excessive push / pull things: that's typically because you're being a tad too competitive with women, and they're responding in kind. Better way: if she starts acting competitive, don't compete. Just act bored: "Yeah, well..." look off to the side. Make her understand she's losing you by acting that way. If it's happening late in a seduction, it's moving backwards, which you need to discourage.

Knowing a girl likes you: I'm not entirely sure what that is, but I think girls are just checking you out / looking you up and down and you pick up on it subconsciously. The brain is amazingly sensitive to eye contact, even from a distance; you can stare into someone's eyes from across a huge, crowded room and they will immediately notice and lock eyes with you. I've had plenty of times I've stared at the back of people's heads and had them snap around and stare back (don't ask me how THAT one works). So most likely she's checking you out, tilting her body in your direction, playing with her hair, and your brain picks up on it and says, "That girl there. That girl likes you."

The girl you work with, sounds like she's trying to get you chasing her. She likes you, probably isn't 100% sure what she wants with you yet, but figures she'll give you proximity and see if you'll do anything with it. It'll stop after a while if you never do anything, and then she'll get cold and a little short with you, or just shift to neutral, depending on how much she likes you and how bad she's hoping you'll take action.


Sam's picture

"Life's too short to spend your ticking clock on people who don't want to be with you. Spend it on the ones who do - and on finding them, if there aren't any around at the moment."

Chase, the difficulty starts when you actully can't tell when a woman wants to be with you or not. Let me give you an example:

On a Saturday night I talk to a woman I liked. She was with friends, I was with friends. I get her number after arranging a meeting for the very next day. To make the long story short: within 20 hours we were kissing in a very atmospheric lounge bar. On Monday I had to wake up early, so I wanted to "tap" the girl with a kiss...then get back to her to 2 days later to "seal the deal". When I texted her to do exactly that, she said she was busy and that she would contact me if she found free time. Since then (last week) I have dropped any further contact and she hasn't contacted me either.

Now what happened here? Was this girl really into me only for that night? Did I miss any escalation window? Well, I doubt it and this is why: when a woman wants sex right now, she would leave no doubt about it; she would first of all dress up, right? Well...the woman in question came to the first date significantly "scaled down" appearence-wise. On Saturday night she was a femimine creture with skirts and high heels. On Sunday night with me she wore flat boots and a leather jacket. Did she seriously expect me to take things to the next level?

How would you categorize this woman? Did she want to be with me or not?

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Sam,

Sounds like a missed window here. In the post on breaking the ice / reducing tension (this one: " How to Break the Ice: 5 Surefire Ways to Entice Her," I talked some about the effect kissing on the mouth has on a woman's sex desire: essentially, it douses the flames of passion, unless executed perfectly and she's left wanting (much) more.

I wouldn't worry too much about how she's dressed. If you haven't seen the post on how to tell if a girl is horny, check that one out; a big part of it is, if a girl wants sex with a guy, much of the time she won't put in any extra effort. There was a female commenter I quoted on there who noted that she wasn't going to bother putting in extra time to get all dressed up for some guy she was just going to sleep with.

Essentially, if you're not going to sleep with her immediately after, in the same place you kissing her, don't kiss her. Wait until you get her alone - your odds go up dramatically that way (both of getting her back to your place, and of actually getting together with her when you do).


Jo's picture

This article is fire man. The most fundamental point in seducing women is being a master of your emotions. Mastering fear, uncertainty, rejection, procrastination, approach anxiety, etc. It's FUCKING HARD, but when you can do it you are better off as a human being... I'm not there yet but definitely further along than I was a year ago...

I was reflecting the other day and thinking that it's best to be willing to walk away at any time from a woman who isn't cooperating, even a gf. I think this fear of being willing to move on NOW is what messes a lot of guys up. It messed me up when I was younger... But if a girl likes you it's easy to get together with her. Once you get more experience with women you realize that some seductions are relatively 'easy' because she really liked you. Then when you encounter a woman who really isn't cooperating, her body language isn't welcoming, and she doesn't return any interest at all you can say well if she liked me as much as the girls before her then she'd be more cooperative. Too bad. Her loss. And move on. Now some girls are shy and aloof or want to see 'how badly you want them' so they'll make you work for it. So you persist long enough to a point where your ego isn't being damaged and give them enough rope to make things happen with you. If they don't take that chance at that point then be gracious (not bitter) and cut bait and walk away.

But once you adopt the mindset of being willing to walk away then you are liberated. Then their little behaviors no longer CONTROL you (e.g. passive aggressive, coyness, shit-testing you, etc). You are no longer kept from from saying the things on your mind (if she misbehaves) for fear that you might lose her if you 'insult' her. You can be assertive and dominant without fear of losing the hot woman in front of you. Why? Because it's no big deal if you don't get THIS one. By persisting long enough with enough women there's one out there that you will find one day.

The end result? You are confident and your behavior is showing that you are. It's one thing to say 'I'm confident', but it's another thing to ACT confidently when in the heat of the moment and actually persist in a suave, charming way, or to be assertive and dominant. And we already know how much women love confidence and persistence...

Chase Amante's picture

Fantastic input, Jo. Adds a lot to the piece and fleshes out some aspects (persisting with a woman who isn't as cooperative without getting emotionally invested or needy, the impact willingness to walk away has on dampening others' behaviors' abilities to control your options and actions) I didn't go into here.

Great stuff.


The Tool's picture

Excellent Post Chase. Was wondering the exact difference myself, After reading this I can be certain I do not chase women, Its all about that abundance mentality. Well on to the next girl ;)

Chase Amante's picture

Sounds like you've got it, Tool. Abundance is a game changer in seduction... makes you see the world from a completely different set of eyes.


John. M's picture

Cool article chase! Been reading your blog for a while and think it's awesome to see someone who knows what their talking about for a change :) moving fast was something that really changed my results!
One question I have though is how would you go about opening and holding a conversation with girls on public transport or a college bus for instance. I can't even think of an opener for such a situation which would be reliable and then to maintain the interaction for about an hour with no possibility of moving her?
Dont know if you have any smart suggestions for this but thanks anyway :)


Chase Amante's picture

Howdy John,

Great to hear moving fast's made a big impact!

See this post:

Meeting Women on Buses, Trains, and Airplanes

Also, for getting women over near you when you're already seated and they're boarding:

Eyes That Draw


Roscoe's picture

What about when you catch yourself at the beginning of a chase, stop, and chill it with the woman.

Is it possible to re-connect after some time off? The woman in question was really into me, opened me, asked for my number, texted me first, and so on. But I fumbled the escalation (booze, stupidity) never totally losing my cool.

The window is closing.... so should I text her? Or keep waiting?

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Roscoe,

That's a tough call. You can sometimes try and pretend the fumble never happened and keep moving on with her per usual, but much of the time your "cover is blown" and she now sees you as a nice guy / friend zone candidate / boyfriend candidate who was only imitating a sexy lover type.

If you take time off and reconnect though, that only gives her time to have that impression gel in her mind. The only way to do a full reset is for her to see you doing well with other women and restore your male sexuality in her eyes.

There's no really great option here, but for my money the best bet is usually soldiering on and pushing for her to meet up and just moving it forward as solidly and continuously as you can. Sometimes you'll get her out and she'll keep moving forward with you despite the earlier fumbles. Much of the time she'll be resistant though, as the terms of the engagement have been reset (before, it might've been that you were skeptical and she was competing for your interest; now it's that she is skeptical, and you're competing for hers).

My take would be go for it now, make no more mistakes, but realize that you've rolled downhill and now you're fighting uphill on this one. Try it, learn from it, and do things better with the next girl.


Roscoe's picture


I connected with the girl before I started faithfully reading girlschase. I've been implementing a lot of lessons and will try some recovery tactics with this girl... but she's not the only woman out there.

Best advice ever is to go out often... and alone. I made a few tweaks and now women are opening me. I'm still a newb... making mistakes but it's fun and I can picture my future and it's full of great, fun, sexy women.

Sam's picture

Thanks for your reply, Chase, but concerning the following:

"if a girl wants sex with a guy, much of the time she won't put in any extra effort. There was a female commenter I quoted on there who noted that she wasn't going to bother putting in extra time to get all dressed up for some guy she was just going to sleep with."

You know men are biochemically programmed to be visual beings. When I am attracted to a feminine woman with high heels, I do not expect to see something less than the image that made me attracted in the first place. As I have other numbers to use to get dates, everything becomes a matter of comparison. If a woman thinks that it is too much for her to dress up and repeat, if not further accentuate, the initial image that made me attracted to her in the first place, then I don't see why I should risk going to my job the next day sleepless and tired. It is all about cost-benefit after all.

Another way to put it: you have always advocated that guys should have more nuanced criteria than just looks. I totally agree. What if I told you that part of my other criteria is a woman who doesn't judge me by our first date and makes it feel like a "now-or-never" issue?

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Sam,

What's you're basically saying you want is a woman who takes it slow with you and views you as, essentially, a husband candidate. That's when girls will dress up, refuse to take things fast, and let it unfold over time.

The great news, I suppose, is that almost every woman is open to this: you've simply got to date women the way a regular guy does - e.g., wine and dine her, take her out to fancy dinners, make it an occasion.

Women will treat you how they think you are for them.

You meet a girl and she's dressed up great, and then you plan a move-fast date at the local dive bar, she won't dress like a million bucks for that, but she may well end up in bed with you.

You meet a girl and she's dressed up great, and then you plan a take-it-slow date at Chez Ritz, the local 5-star Italian restaurant, and she'll show up in heel-to-toe glamour. Zero chance of her coming home with you, but her expectations will be that you're courting her as a potential wife, and she will put on the display you're looking for. She's not going to go to bed with you any time soon, but she will give you time to let things unfold because you're competing for the husband role, and this is a lot more serious to her than a quick fling, where it is, essentially, "now-or-never."

It's all in the expectations you set and the environment you create for her. If you want her to dress up and slow game it, you have to set the proper expectations for that first (husband, not fast moving, etc.).


mkivtt's picture

Thanks. You've enunciated something I have been struggling with on this website: most of the articles and advice seem geared to "picking up" women for the short-term. I'm more interested in the long term, looking for a nice girl to eventually be with, and have had a hard time aligning what I "thought" a woman would want with the "hit em fast and hard" articles.

So I guess you do advocate treating the two categories differently.

Nevertheless, there is a lot of advice here, and I thank you for your website. You should add a paypal donate button so readers can just chip in a few even if they don't purchase any of the ebooks.

Thanks Chase.

Garrett's picture

Hey Chase!

So I've gotten past this phase of chasing, I don't have a lot of abundance, but like you, I'm busy and don't have time to waste on girls who are going to take up my time.

Anyways, I wanted to get your opinion on this situation since as I'm sure you know, a lot of people value your advice, including myself. So I was seeing this girl, and a few weeks back, she came to my place and shortly after, I grabbed her and madeout with her. She was into it, except I made a few rookie mistakes that I regret... after she left, I was texting her too much, and I think she had a bit of buyer's remorse because after I moved her, I feel like I didn't emotionally connect to her as well as I could have (my fault there).

Currently, we have been texting a bit, and she responds to everything I send, usually within a few minutes (not like hours later). I on the other hand, unintentionally message her back hours, sometimes even days later (because I've lost that need to keep chasing girls through experience and due to my schedule), so the law of least effort is working naturally in my favour. We might be meeting up later this week, but I'm not too sure how she's feeling about me. I feel like she feels taken advantage of due to the buyer's remorse from a few weeks back (about a month has passed), and it just seems kind of 'off' like I'm not crazy into her and she's not crazy into me, probably due to the long text message conversations I initiated, which I regret doing. I went from showing her not much value to a lot of value, by dropping some emotional bombs on her through text (forehead smack). I want to escalate things further next time were out, but I'm a bit concerned that I waited too long. My interactions with her have been on and off for a month, but she's been responsive throughout. I'm trying to gage how she feels, whether I've broken the sexual frame, if I should pursue this opportunity; it's just a weird situation. I don't want to give up on her because she has a lot of qualities that would benefit me, so I wanted to see your thoughts.

Thanks, and appreciate your posts/advice!

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Garrett,

Any time you almost sleep with a girl... then don't... it's usually done. Best call to make when that happens is have zero contact with her until it's time to set up another meet, and if she won't come out walk away.

You've made yourself pretty valuable to her life in the meantime as a friend and texting partner. Coupled with the fact that the escalation failed, you're probably friend zoned. Still, meet up with her, try and take her to bed, and see what happens. If it doesn't work this time I'd suggest you walk away before you get caught up investing more time in the girl, though, and just make sure you close things out with the next girl.

I haven't had many failed escalations in some time, but when I do, I never contact the girl again after anymore. Failed mating typically results in an automatic write-off from the girl, and it's best (for your own sake) if you start viewing it that way, too (otherwise you can waste a LOT of time on girls who've written you off as a mate but still want you as a friend / supporter because you feel like you were oh-so-close).


Nem's picture

Let me start by saying that I've been reading the blog for awhile now and honestly it's the best I've ever come across. There isn't an article that doesn't somehow change how I think about dating women.

So here's my story, there's this girl at work, I don't have a lot of direct contact with her because our jobs don't really require that and I've only spoken to her a few times at company drinks. Some time ago she asked for my help, totally unnecessary which was a good time for me to ask her out. We had a drink and it was nice, no major sparks though. Next day at a company outing she barely spoke to me even though she sat right next to me, but she said she had nothing to do Sunday, so I sent her a text asking her for a bite to eat, to which she replied very late. When I tried to make it the week after, no reply. She was a bit weird at work afterwards so I backed off but kept it friendly.

Two weeks ago (3 weeks after drink no.1) I decide that maybe I'm letting my judgement get ahead of me (I was doubting her character) and ask her for a coffee. She couldn't meet but said "maybe next week." That was last week and I had a week off, but I purposely didn't meet with her that week because it didn't suit me. I dropped her a line though on Sunday asking her if she'd like to go for a drink Tue/Wed. Monday she replies that we should have a drink, so yesterday we actually did... it was a lot of fun, we talked about everything from work, personal ambitions, family, love, etc. We moved through a few places, at the end she even told me she'd been to the last place with a guy very recently (which I didn't really react to, I won't bite to that lol). I almost felt like kissing her when we parted, but I didn't want to rush it.

So here's my dilemma, I really like this girl and want to get to know her better, but I also want to move it forward. She said she liked visiting museums (she's not from my city) which I probably could have moved on immediately, but does it sound like a good idea for me to ask her to go to one on Sunday and then see if during the day I can move it to drinks/dinner?

Rgds. Nem
(Sorry for the huge chunk of text)

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Nem,

This one's a pretty tough call because in my experience the normal slow-dating process doesn't work 95% of the time, but she's a girl at work and you've already got strong emotions for her, which means you probably won't be able to fast-game it and she may have a lot of reservations if you try, anyway.

Sure, try and get some leadership and momentum going moving it from one venue to another, that's a good start. You seem like you're on a more traditional dating trajectory here, and this one's Date #2. Museum => Dinner + Drinks seems solid, and then you can do cooking her dinner at your place for Date #3. Or, if you want to be extra certain, one more dinner outside for Date #3, in a more casual place, and really get a sexual vibe going, but you end the night first and leave her wanting it bad. Then on Date #4 have her over for dinner, and take her as your lover.


M's picture

Just curious, if a guy can chase a girl for weeks, months, or years (my god), can't a girl chase a guy for that long, too?

Chase Amante's picture

Hey M,

Girls can chase guys for weeks or months, absolutely, although it's pretty rare that it goes longer than that, just since your average girl has a LOT more options than your average guy (to eventually distract her / take over her attentions), and because women are waiting for men to take action usually, they're a lot more prone to auto-rejection (whereas the guy keeps thinking, "I've just got to wait for the RIGHT MOMENT!" pretty much forever).

So yeah, you can get her to chase for a while... but sooner or later, she'll get angry and give up on you, or some other guy will come along and sweep her off her feet.


Asian Persuasion's picture

Over the past year or so, I dropped a ton of weight and got all my fundamentals down tons better than I ever had, and I'm still getting used to the compliments that it has gotten me from random people and watching myself get double takes from girls when I walk by out of the corner of my eye. I've never experienced this before, so it's still very new to me, but it's definitely enjoyable.
There are now girls that I suspect are interested in me at the moment, but I'm really not all that certain because I'm still fairly green. One rides the bus with me to school and has gotten my attention a few times by asking to see if I could braid hair and then asking me to braid hers and talking loudly to her friends when I'm close by. However she also seems to avoid my eye contact when I'm walking by or talking to someone other than her. Whenever I engage in talking to her though, she doesn't act the least bit nervous.
There are more that get my attention by giving me compliments, but this one sticks out the most to me. What do you think of it? Is this a sign I'm just not accustomed to, or is it still too vague? Thanks for the posts man, I've made tons of progress in just a year from them

Chase Amante's picture

Howdy AP,

Awesome to hear the site's helped you make so much progress!

Sounds like these girls are interested. Only way you can really find out though... is by asking them out! Then you'll know how interested they are for sure.

But you already knew that, right? Now you've just got to do it.


Vaughn 's picture

Hey chase, if I buy A girl something cheap like ice cream or fast food does that break your dating rules? And say if the girl drives me but I pick up the tab of where we're at does that mess me up too? Thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Vaughn,

Ultimately it's about how invested she feels she is vs. how invested she feels you are. So if she's already done a lot, it's fine. If she drives and you pick up the tab and nothing else happens, it feels like the two of you are on equal footing, which means friends, normally (women want a man they view as stronger than them / an authority figure, etc.). However, if she drives, does a lot of other things for you, and THEN you pick up the tab, it can be okay.

Just remember that it's not about any actual concrete thing (e.g., NEVER pay money, or anything silly like that), but rather about the overall feel of the interaction.


DM's picture

Love the stuff here. Been reading it daily since mid September, every post I read progresses me, but I have one question. You bring a girl over, and you chill a bit, but how do you move from sitting in front of the TV, or wherever and into your bedroom? I don't know how to do that in a smoothe non, " So....uh...you wanna go to my room?" it works, but it's lame. What do you usually do?

Chase Amante's picture

Hey DM,

Try this one on for size: just start escalating with her on the sofa. At some point she'll either be so into it you can just pick her up and carry her to the bed (and toss her on it - tons of fun!), or you can just sleep with her on the couch.

If you have roommates and they're there / you're worried about them coming home, either give them a heads up, or take the girl straight to your room to look at something on your computer / watch a movie on your computer, etc. If she asks why not the living room, just tell her your roommie's coming back soon and he always watches The Shield or some other show that no woman on Earth wants to watch when he gets home.


Dale's picture

I have had a couple of women (who I did not chase, but talked to occasionally) who did date me a year or two after I first approached them. In both cases, they had broken up with their boyfriend before they went out with me.

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Dale,

Right on. Sounds like they were largely at your periphery until you moved in for it.

I agree with you, that's the best, and really the only consistent, way of knowing a girl for a while before getting together with her.


Joe's picture

Thanks Chase for another great one. I've been trying to follow your tips, and actually did listen to you about reading when a woman is horny and making a move fast. I had a party at my place this past weekend with a few friends, and there was a girl over at my place who is a friend of mine who basically started putting her hands on me. I pulled her into a corner and we started making out. Eventually we did some fooling around but she wasn't looking to sleep with anyone that night, which I respected so I took her home.

Now when I asked her about the other night she said she wants us to just remain friends because she's got commitment issues (past boyfriends treated her like total crap from what I know). But I would like to see her again because from what I know about her she seems great. Should I ask her out or just leave it be because of the commitment issues? I just don't know how to read her signals since she was the one who instigated whatever happened that night yet wants to just be friends. Thanks in advance for everything.

Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Joe,

Great to see you working on moving fast and getting fast escalation down. You probably could've had this girl, but for the making out. See the notes on kissing in the post on how to break the ice.

Essentially, kissing acts as a sexual tension release - once you've kissed her in public, the odds she goes home with you / sleeps with you go down dramatically. It's also somewhat of a commencement of mating, and can count as a "failed mating attempt" unless she perceives YOU as the one having broken it off. If SHE broke it off, she'll backwards rationalize it as not being very interested in you (it's an emotional thing). Once mating's failed, you quickly get written off as "not a guy I want to sleep with," and women will move it quickly to being just friends.

So, I'd be very surprised if past boyfriends are the reason why she doesn't want to date YOU. Remember that if she's dating guys who treated her like crap, they're probably also guys who don't care much about women, and probably picked her up fast by default. That's what she's used to, that's what she likes, and any guy who isn't a fast-moving asshole who treats her like crap gets written off as weak / friends material.

Best bet here if you really want her is to just tell her something like, "I like you, but I'm not really interested in being friends with you. Let's talk if you want to hang out sometime, though," which sounds asshole-ish, but a girl who dates bad guys isn't looking for a nice guy to save her... she's looking for another bad guy. I've pulled this same move on girls with similar relationship histories, and they eat it up. They whine and complain, you cut them off for a month or so, and when they come back to you suddenly they're desperate to be with you.

So, you say that, then, do cut her off, until you have another chance to move fast with her again sometime - but that time, don't kiss her, just get her alone and make things happen.

Fair warning, you probably won't want to date her though. Women who make great relationship partners tend to date MEN who make great relationship partners, whereas troubled people attract troubled partners. She'll be a handful in a relationship, and not in a good way.


Joe's picture

Thanks a bunch for the reply. I actually just went ahead with your advice tonight about just being straight with her and told her I'd like to take her out sometime otherwise I just don't see this working. I feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. You are the man.

Tony B's picture

hello Chase,
So i met this girl and i started moving fast and all. She even invited me to see and dad and family which was kinda unusually looking at the kind of community i live in.

So sometime ago she came to visit me without me being aware which was very surprising. One of my friends was there (male) and we had to leave to go play indoor soccer so she came along. I think her window started closing when she came to visit unannounced. Well later she invited me to thanksgiving with her whole family which made things seem a bit promising. She even sent me a text telling me how the whole family loved my presence and how a great guy i was. But she's been so hard to get to hang out with always with excuses and hassle replying my text. Do you think the window has closed or i should persist a bit more? If i should persist, till when should i walk away?

Chase Amante's picture

Hey Tony,

Yeah, that's kind of an unusual one - inviting you to join her family for Thanksgiving? Could be she really liked you, or could be he parents were pressing her about having a boyfriend and she needed a stand-in to get them off her back. Hard to say.

It sounds to me like she showed up first to butter you up ("Oh, what a nice unexpected surprise visit!") then to ask you to help her out, without calling it that ("Come to Thanksgiving and get my parents off my back!"). If she's unresponsive / excuse-making about texts, that means she's already got a full life and things going on that are more important to her than you - could be she's doing casual relationships with guys, dating a guy her parents wouldn't like, dating a girl, etc.

Or, could've just been she wanted you as a boyfriend and moved things quickly to position you as that. But, once a girl's family approves strongly of you, it can actually be a big dampener on attraction if you haven't solidified a strong sexual connection first, so that's also a possibility.

Your best bet is probably to fall off the map for a while. If she genuinely liked you, her family will bug her about you and it'll make her want to get back in touch. If she didn't, then you can just move on and find women who aren't a hassle replying to you.


Anonymous's picture

You know chase, I've gotten quite a few girls being persistent. Some I was persistent for months and they came around. In fact, one of them is my gf. Now, when I had the mentality of nexting girls for giving me resistance, I didn't have nearly as much success. I will make one distinction. My persistence is very playful and non needy and it in no way hurts my ego..I find, if done in this way, women get worn dow and give in

Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Anon,

Absolutely. You can definitely still win with women over the long term, with enough persistence and wearing them down, but it DOES have to be completely non-needy. I've heard a few stories from women who've ended up with men this way so I know it exists (haven't met guys personally who've used this approach successfully).

The reason I don't talk about it here is it takes a guy who's both 1) non-needy with the girls he's persisting with and 2) interested enough / naturally flirtatious enough to continue persisting with women without getting attached to them or chasing them over the long haul, and that's a pretty tough mix for guys who are learning to come by.

However, once a guy reaches that point where he is truly not needy or attached to the women he's pursuing and he isn't going to lay there awake at night trying to figure out how to get her, then he's fine to flirt with her whenever he sees her... and eventually land her.

Comes down to the old adage about mastering something: you get good enough, eventually most of the rules stop applying to you.


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