In “How to Use Situationally Relevant Openers with Women”, a reader named Christopher made the following comment:
This post is great to develop your skill.
But, there was a situation I was stuck.An interesting one.
I was always successful with women since 2011, using simple and funny pickups. But I entered in an environment with high caliber women. They are very experienced and hard to control, but still show enough interest, so I can’t give up on them. I can’t say that there is no male concurrence. Real men with huge fundamentals.
So, could you write a post on a professional pickup, cause there have little effect on them.(they have seen a lot like this)”
It’s a little hard to follow, but if I’m reading it right Christopher’s recently run into a problem in that the approach he’s found success with picking up other kinds of women has fallen flat with professional (career) girls, who tend to be more used to holding their own around men and are frequently surrounded by plenty of ambitious and successful male options in their work and social lives.
And that’s actually a great observation (assuming I’m reading the comment right)... it IS quite different picking up professional women than other categories of women (students, retail / service industry workers, etc.).
They look for and respond to different things, and if you aren’t expecting that or aren’t calibrated to what women in the professional world are looking for, you can quickly be thrown for a loop.
Before we dive in, let’s define the term “professional woman.”
Because a professional woman can be a lot of things to a lot of different people.
When I use the term “professional woman”, I mean a woman who has a 4-year or higher university degree, works a 9-to-5 in an office or office-like environment (e.g., hospital, courtroom, movie studio, etc.), wears business clothes or a uniform, and performs non-service industry work, such as:
- Human resources
- Project management
- Legal work
- Surgical work
I consider clerical roles in office environments to be borderline / gray area professional – those are roles like:
- Low-level public relations gal
Women here tend to be somewhat in-between in their mate choices, hovering midway from “professional” to “service industry.”
So what’s different about picking up professional women... and do you have to be a professional yourself?
What are Professional Women Looking for in a Man?
Personally, I had the darnedest time getting anywhere with service industry women for a long time – I had major attainability problems with them, and would send them into auto-rejection almost from the moment I met them.
It was not until I developed a strong enough sexual vibe that I found myself able to consistently bed women in the service industry, probably because at that point my obvious sexual interest overruled whatever other qualities about me made me seem out of their leagues, and I at last became attainable to them (at least for one night).
Professional woman, though, I’ve never had problems with.
Most of the men I see do well with professional women are professionals themselves, but not all of them. I’ve had a few friends who were quite good with women and consistently dated professional women with high incomes who were themselves mere high school graduates or high school dropouts who’d followed otherwise unconventional paths in life. This didn’t stop them, however.
And I discovered firsthand that professional women don’t mind dating down in the income / career ladder if you tick off enough of there other boxes in 2010, when my profession officially became “unemployed” and I never bothered to get another real job again after that... but went on to do better with professional women than ever (maybe it’s all the extra non-office bound free time on my hands – more time to play the odds).
But, as a group, professional women across the board largely tend to have somewhat different things they select for in mates than service industry women do.
Which makes sense – a gal doesn’t just happen into a professional career OR a service industry job... she finds the place in life she fits best, with the kinds of people she most wants to be around, and plugs herself in.
And to get a woman like that, you’ve either got to be like the people in that group...
... or you’ve got to provide her something she’s missing, but wants.
Professional Women vs. Service Industry Women
If I had to boil it down to the absolute purest, most discernible difference between service industry women and professional women, it’s this:
Where service industry women like to let their hair down, party to their hearts’ content, and just have carefree fun, professional women are invariably more controlled... and expect you to be, too.
Even the ones who like to party like control.
Some girls like to work hard and play hard, but they NEVER play as hard genuinely as their service industry peers. Some of them will try to fool you into thinking they do, but this one’s easy enough to expose – just keep pushing the unconventionality to the hilt and you will crack their frames – you’ll see them get uncomfortable in ways that service industry women just don’t.
That means you can do things like:
Get extra wild during parties
Start talking about increasingly exotic lifestyles
Suggest more and more to them that they give up their careers and come live lives of adventure
... and watch them go cold on you.
These are all things that as you do them with service industry women, you will typically see them get more and more excited, and more and more interested in you.
Up to a point with career women, this is true as well... but once you go over a certain line, they start getting uncomfortable and cooling off with you.
That’s when you’ve crossed too far into the wild side for them.
You’re too unconventional... too uncontrolled.
And that makes you a risk factor.
You see, a professional woman is a planner. She’s future-oriented.
Everything she does is done with an eye always cast toward the potential future outcomes of her actions... so, she can have fun... but not TOO much fun.
And she can dabble in the unconventional... but not TOO unconventional.
Every modern woman likes to consider herself free and liberated and open-minded and experimental, but while a service industry woman will tend to be present-oriented and will enjoy going with the flow right into crazy territory, so long as it stays fun and exciting, professional women pull themselves back from going over the cliff of too much fun, and you can “call their bluff” so to speak if you’re willing to go farther than they are.
Thus, you expose the key difference between a professional woman and a service industry woman: a service industry woman just wants to have fun – pure fun... meanwhile, a professional woman wants to have fun TOO – but she wants it to be measured enough that she isn’t going over the edge, and she wants it to be with people she feels like are similar enough to her that they aren’t going to go over that edge either.
First off, fashion here is important.
You don’t have to walk around in business attire, but you will tend to have a much easier time with women wearing something that looks somewhat more upscale than not. Even if you’re on vacation, opt for swim trunks and a button-down shirt with rolled-up sleeves rather than swim trunks and a t-shirt.
Sure, you CAN pick up professional women in more casual clothes... but it’s just harder.
When you work all day in the professional world, you get something of an attachment to that style of dress. Still today, there’s nothing that instantly grabs my attention and turns me on more than a woman in tight, sexy business attire – a colorful button-down shirt, tight blazer, and short skirt or clingy dress pants that show off her curves in spectacular fashion – wow, that’s hot.
And guess what?
Women in the professional world feel the same way about men’s attire. A guy in a t-shirt is okay, but unless he’s got muscles popping out or naturally good looks he usually doesn’t set their hearts racing the way a guy in slightly more professional-ish garb does.
Yet, while clothes do make the man to an extent, there’s a bit more
to it than
Communicating Controlled Sexiness
The biggest factor I find with professional women is
communicating that you are fun, and you are passionate, but it is controlled fun and controlled passion.
While with service industry women you will tend to do better communicating that you are a freewheeling, wild guy who indulges in all kinds of craziness (so long as you’re still strong, powerful, and confident), with professional women it’s been my experience that you tend to do a lot better suggesting that you indulge in some craziness sometimes... but you’re always back to living a life of sharp, smart respectability come Monday morning, with just a dash of wildness still hanging about you.
Service industry girls want the werewolf – the wild, untamed beast just bursting forth... while professional women want the vampire – the man with an animal inside of him, but who keeps it mostly controlled under a veneer of charm and reserve.
The easiest way to communicate controlled sexiness is by building sexual tension as you would with any woman, yet weaving in every now and again some talk about your ambitions or professional accomplishments or things you very much want to build in the future.
These give you enough of a sense of control about you that she can feel comfortable letting down her guard and opening herself up to the wilder part of you too... the side of you where the animal resides.
Helping Her be More in the Moment
You will notice if you watch them enough in bars and parties and clubs that in a group of female friends, the service industry girls (and future service industry girls, when talking college students) throw themselves wholeheartedly into partying as if there is nothing else in the world but the party, while the professional girls (and future professional, current students) always have a glint of skepticism in their eyes, as if they are there merely pretending to enjoy themselves, all while thinking about what comes later in the night (or the next day... or the next week...).
At no time do they become fully immersed in the moment, and this is both their blessing (they get to keep their lives on an upward trajectory) and their curse (they never get to fully let go).
Yet, once a professional woman’s met you and you’ve communicated enough control, you can then guide her into being more “in the moment.” Here, you will tend to want to communicate that you are slightly more wild and more in the moment than she is.
You do that with things like:
Encouraging her to get looser (dance, party, do something crazy) with warm, inviting, accepting, but persistent invitations – e.g., smiling, squinting, and waving her in and saying, “Come on, it’s just a dance! It’ll be fun, come on!”
Talking about something that’s just a little bit wilder than you can tell she likes to go, and when she balks, “Ha, well, I don’t think I could do that,” you stare her deep in the eyes and tell her, “You probably could. You’d probably like it a lot,” and letting the tension build
Pulling off something socially that you know is just a little bit more than what she feels like is socially acceptable – e.g., sneaking into somewhere with her that she knows you’re not supposed to be, but it’s not a HUGE risk; or grabbing her and cutting a line with her when she was going to wait at the back of the line with you
What you’re doing with things like this is threefold:
You’re helping her be more in the moment, which is conducive to sexual feelings (and sex)
You’re leading her quite firmly and dominantly, in a warm way that she accepts and yields to
You’re communicating domain authority to her – this world (the world of wild and crazy things) is YOUR world, and you are pulling her into it
All the while, you don’t go so far to the extreme that you become unrelatable to her or that she flat out refuses to comply. You want to break her out of her comfort zone, but only slightly – it should be a little fun, a little exciting, a little scary, but nothing she’s going to freeze up about or shut down over.
If you hit the right note, you will be one of the most attractive men she’s ever met, because the super wild guys that service industry girls are drawn to are too much for her, while the more controlled men of the professional world usually aren’t daring enough to pull her into the moment the way you now are.
If You’re Not a Professional, What Do You Do?
The key here seems to be inclusive leadership. You will probably need some trial and error to get here.
One friend like this who struggled to hang onto professional women
for more than a few months in relationships
(because he wasn’t really that bright, and they tended to tire of him
quickly) but who had no trouble picking them up mostly did it through a
good-natured inclusiveness and a touch-feely way with them – he’d
basically take an almost fatherly way with women around him, as if he
was a big bear protecting all these little helpless cubs, while at the
same time touching them a lot and offering them drinks, or food, or
what have you. He was protective and dominant, while still being a sexual man.
Professional women would hook up with him because even though he didn’t really have a job and clearly wasn’t especially bright, he was pretty socially adept, dressed well and made himself attractive, was very calm and cool and sexy with women, and he communicated enough control and enough of an “I’m looking out for everyone around me” vibe that professional women felt like while he wasn’t someone they’d keep around long-term, he was someone they’d be safe around, and he was sexy enough to make a pretty decent short-term lover.
So, for this friend of mine at least, the keys were:
Communicating a “leader of the group” type feel around him wherever he went
Presenting himself in a very attractive, sexy way with lots of touching and warmth and gentle powerfulness and control
Another friend with a similar education level who also wasn’t gainfully employed (like that first friend) but did very well with women, yet was far more dynamic, would constantly talk of grand plans and ideas he wanted to bring about in the world, and certain professional women would be drawn to him as a kind of out-sized bet – he might be nothing, or he might be the next King of the World.
For him, the key was mostly a very grand view of himself, along with a tendency to immediately start telling people around him what their place was going to be in this future world he was working on bringing into being.
In both men’s cases (both very good with professional women, but also service industry women too), you can see there is a key of inclusiveness and “I am the leader, and I would be happy to have you in my tribe” mentality there.
If you don’t have much in the way of professional chops, you can still make professional women very interested in you if you can communicate that you call the shots, other people listen, and you’d like to bring them along for the ride and take good care of them.
One caveat: outside of certain service industry jobs that put them in contact with lots of women (bartender, nightclub doorman, etc.), I can’t say I’ve known any service industry men who did all that well with professional women. I’m sure there are some out there, but it seems like for the most part, if you aren’t a professional, you’re better off unemployed when it comes to getting professional women than you are pushing carts or cleaning tables.
That’s probably mostly a status thing – while a middle manager in an
office is clearly higher status than a grocery store checkout clerk
(and she didn’t work this hard to achieve a high status position
herself only to lower herself to be with low status men), a
man who’s unemployed yet still dressed in attractive, upscale clothes,
who speaks charmingly and eloquently, and knows how to move within
professional circles is something of a mystery... and he’s fascinating
because of it.