What's Different When Picking Up Professional Women?


professional womenIn “How to Use Situationally Relevant Openers with Women”, a reader named Christopher made the following comment:

Hello, Chase!
This post is great to develop your skill.
But, there was a situation I was stuck.An interesting one.
I was always successful with women since 2011, using simple and funny pickups. But I entered in an environment with high caliber women. They are very experienced and hard to control, but still show enough interest, so I can’t give up on them. I can’t say that there is no male concurrence. Real men with huge fundamentals.
So, could you write a post on a professional pickup, cause there have little effect on them.(they have seen a lot like this)

It’s a little hard to follow, but if I’m reading it right Christopher’s recently run into a problem in that the approach he’s found success with picking up other kinds of women has fallen flat with professional (career) girls, who tend to be more used to holding their own around men and are frequently surrounded by plenty of ambitious and successful male options in their work and social lives.

And that’s actually a great observation (assuming I’m reading the comment right)... it IS quite different picking up professional women than other categories of women (students, retail / service industry workers, etc.).

They look for and respond to different things, and if you aren’t expecting that or aren’t calibrated to what women in the professional world are looking for, you can quickly be thrown for a loop.


professional women

Before we dive in, let’s define the term “professional woman.”

Because a professional woman can be a lot of things to a lot of different people.

When I use the term “professional woman”, I mean a woman who has a 4-year or higher university degree, works a 9-to-5 in an office or office-like environment (e.g., hospital, courtroom, movie studio, etc.), wears business clothes or a uniform, and performs non-service industry work, such as:

  • Finance
  • Reporting
  • Accounting
  • Architecture
  • Human resources
  • Project management
  • Legal work
  • Surgical work

Et cetera.

I consider clerical roles in office environments to be borderline / gray area professional – those are roles like:

  • Nurse
  • Secretary
  • Assistant
  • Low-level public relations gal

etc.

Women here tend to be somewhat in-between in their mate choices, hovering midway from “professional” to “service industry.”

So what’s different about picking up professional women... and do you have to be a professional yourself?


What are Professional Women Looking for in a Man?

Personally, I had the darnedest time getting anywhere with service industry women for a long time – I had major attainability problems with them, and would send them into auto-rejection almost from the moment I met them.

It was not until I developed a strong enough sexual vibe that I found myself able to consistently bed women in the service industry, probably because at that point my obvious sexual interest overruled whatever other qualities about me made me seem out of their leagues, and I at last became attainable to them (at least for one night).

Professional woman, though, I’ve never had problems with.

professional women

Most of the men I see do well with professional women are professionals themselves, but not all of them. I’ve had a few friends who were quite good with women and consistently dated professional women with high incomes who were themselves mere high school graduates or high school dropouts who’d followed otherwise unconventional paths in life. This didn’t stop them, however.

And I discovered firsthand that professional women don’t mind dating down in the income / career ladder if you tick off enough of there other boxes in 2010, when my profession officially became “unemployed” and I never bothered to get another real job again after that... but went on to do better with professional women than ever (maybe it’s all the extra non-office bound free time on my hands – more time to play the odds).

But, as a group, professional women across the board largely tend to have somewhat different things they select for in mates than service industry women do.

Which makes sense – a gal doesn’t just happen into a professional career OR a service industry job... she finds the place in life she fits best, with the kinds of people she most wants to be around, and plugs herself in.

And to get a woman like that, you’ve either got to be like the people in that group...

... or you’ve got to provide her something she’s missing, but wants.


Professional Women vs. Service Industry Women

If I had to boil it down to the absolute purest, most discernible difference between service industry women and professional women, it’s this:

Control.

Where service industry women like to let their hair down, party to their hearts’ content, and just have carefree fun, professional women are invariably more controlled... and expect you to be, too.

Even the ones who like to party like control.

Some girls like to work hard and play hard, but they NEVER play as hard genuinely as their service industry peers. Some of them will try to fool you into thinking they do, but this one’s easy enough to expose – just keep pushing the unconventionality to the hilt and you will crack their frames – you’ll see them get uncomfortable in ways that service industry women just don’t.

That means you can do things like:

  • Get extra wild during parties

  • Start talking about increasingly exotic lifestyles

  • Suggest more and more to them that they give up their careers and come live lives of adventure

... and watch them go cold on you.

These are all things that as you do them with service industry women, you will typically see them get more and more excited, and more and more interested in you.

Up to a point with career women, this is true as well... but once you go over a certain line, they start getting uncomfortable and cooling off with you.

That’s when you’ve crossed too far into the wild side for them.

You’re too unconventional... too uncontrolled.

And that makes you a risk factor.

You see, a professional woman is a planner. She’s future-oriented.

Everything she does is done with an eye always cast toward the potential future outcomes of her actions... so, she can have fun... but not TOO much fun.

And she can dabble in the unconventional... but not TOO unconventional.

Every modern woman likes to consider herself free and liberated and open-minded and experimental, but while a service industry woman will tend to be present-oriented and will enjoy going with the flow right into crazy territory, so long as it stays fun and exciting, professional women pull themselves back from going over the cliff of too much fun, and you can “call their bluff” so to speak if you’re willing to go farther than they are.

Thus, you expose the key difference between a professional woman and a service industry woman: a service industry woman just wants to have fun – pure fun... meanwhile, a professional woman wants to have fun TOO – but she wants it to be measured enough that she isn’t going over the edge, and she wants it to be with people she feels like are similar enough to her that they aren’t going to go over that edge either.

Too risqué or unconventional, and you might be nice to talk to, but not someone she finds much relatable... or sexy.


professional women

First off, fashion here is important.

You don’t have to walk around in business attire, but you will tend to have a much easier time with women wearing something that looks somewhat more upscale than not. Even if you’re on vacation, opt for swim trunks and a button-down shirt with rolled-up sleeves rather than swim trunks and a t-shirt.

Sure, you CAN pick up professional women in more casual clothes... but it’s just harder.

When you work all day in the professional world, you get something of an attachment to that style of dress. Still today, there’s nothing that instantly grabs my attention and turns me on more than a woman in tight, sexy business attire – a colorful button-down shirt, tight blazer, and short skirt or clingy dress pants that show off her curves in spectacular fashion – wow, that’s hot.

And guess what?

Women in the professional world feel the same way about men’s attire. A guy in a t-shirt is okay, but unless he’s got muscles popping out or naturally good looks he usually doesn’t set their hearts racing the way a guy in slightly more professional-ish garb does.

Yet, while clothes do make the man to an extent, there’s a bit more to it than this.


Communicating Controlled Sexiness

professional womenThe biggest factor I find with professional women is communicating that you are fun, and you are passionate, but it is controlled fun and controlled passion.

While with service industry women you will tend to do better communicating that you are a freewheeling, wild guy who indulges in all kinds of craziness (so long as you’re still strong, powerful, and confident), with professional women it’s been my experience that you tend to do a lot better suggesting that you indulge in some craziness sometimes... but you’re always back to living a life of sharp, smart respectability come Monday morning, with just a dash of wildness still hanging about you.

Service industry girls want the werewolf – the wild, untamed beast just bursting forth... while professional women want the vampire – the man with an animal inside of him, but who keeps it mostly controlled under a veneer of charm and reserve.

The easiest way to communicate controlled sexiness is by building sexual tension as you would with any woman, yet weaving in every now and again some talk about your ambitions or professional accomplishments or things you very much want to build in the future.

These give you enough of a sense of control about you that she can feel comfortable letting down her guard and opening herself up to the wilder part of you too... the side of you where the animal resides.


Helping Her be More in the Moment

You will notice if you watch them enough in bars and parties and clubs that in a group of female friends, the service industry girls (and future service industry girls, when talking college students) throw themselves wholeheartedly into partying as if there is nothing else in the world but the party, while the professional girls (and future professional, current students) always have a glint of skepticism in their eyes, as if they are there merely pretending to enjoy themselves, all while thinking about what comes later in the night (or the next day... or the next week...).

At no time do they become fully immersed in the moment, and this is both their blessing (they get to keep their lives on an upward trajectory) and their curse (they never get to fully let go).

Yet, once a professional woman’s met you and you’ve communicated enough control, you can then guide her into being more “in the moment.” Here, you will tend to want to communicate that you are slightly more wild and more in the moment than she is.

You do that with things like:

  • Encouraging her to get looser (dance, party, do something crazy) with warm, inviting, accepting, but persistent invitations – e.g., smiling, squinting, and waving her in and saying, “Come on, it’s just a dance! It’ll be fun, come on!”

  • Talking about something that’s just a little bit wilder than you can tell she likes to go, and when she balks, “Ha, well, I don’t think I could do that,” you stare her deep in the eyes and tell her, “You probably could. You’d probably like it a lot,” and letting the tension build

  • Pulling off something socially that you know is just a little bit more than what she feels like is socially acceptable – e.g., sneaking into somewhere with her that she knows you’re not supposed to be, but it’s not a HUGE risk; or grabbing her and cutting a line with her when she was going to wait at the back of the line with you

What you’re doing with things like this is threefold:

  1. You’re helping her be more in the moment, which is conducive to sexual feelings (and sex)

  2. You’re leading her quite firmly and dominantly, in a warm way that she accepts and yields to

  3. You’re communicating domain authority to her – this world (the world of wild and crazy things) is YOUR world, and you are pulling her into it

All the while, you don’t go so far to the extreme that you become unrelatable to her or that she flat out refuses to comply. You want to break her out of her comfort zone, but only slightly – it should be a little fun, a little exciting, a little scary, but nothing she’s going to freeze up about or shut down over.

If you hit the right note, you will be one of the most attractive men she’s ever met, because the super wild guys that service industry girls are drawn to are too much for her, while the more controlled men of the professional world usually aren’t daring enough to pull her into the moment the way you now are.


If You’re Not a Professional, What Do You Do?

The key here seems to be inclusive leadership. You will probably need some trial and error to get here.

One friend like this who struggled to hang onto professional women for more than a few months in relationships (because he wasn’t really that bright, and they tended to tire of him quickly) but who had no trouble picking them up mostly did it through a good-natured inclusiveness and a touch-feely way with them – he’d basically take an almost fatherly way with women around him, as if he was a big bear protecting all these little helpless cubs, while at the same time touching them a lot and offering them drinks, or food, or what have you. He was protective and dominant, while still being a sexual man.

Professional women would hook up with him because even though he didn’t really have a job and clearly wasn’t especially bright, he was pretty socially adept, dressed well and made himself attractive, was very calm and cool and sexy with women, and he communicated enough control and enough of an “I’m looking out for everyone around me” vibe that professional women felt like while he wasn’t someone they’d keep around long-term, he was someone they’d be safe around, and he was sexy enough to make a pretty decent short-term lover.

So, for this friend of mine at least, the keys were:

  • Communicating a “leader of the group” type feel around him wherever he went

  • Presenting himself in a very attractive, sexy way with lots of touching and warmth and gentle powerfulness and control

Another friend with a similar education level who also wasn’t gainfully employed (like that first friend) but did very well with women, yet was far more dynamic, would constantly talk of grand plans and ideas he wanted to bring about in the world, and certain professional women would be drawn to him as a kind of out-sized bet – he might be nothing, or he might be the next King of the World.

For him, the key was mostly a very grand view of himself, along with a tendency to immediately start telling people around him what their place was going to be in this future world he was working on bringing into being.

In both men’s cases (both very good with professional women, but also service industry women too), you can see there is a key of inclusiveness and “I am the leader, and I would be happy to have you in my tribe” mentality there.

If you don’t have much in the way of professional chops, you can still make professional women very interested in you if you can communicate that you call the shots, other people listen, and you’d like to bring them along for the ride and take good care of them.

One caveat: outside of certain service industry jobs that put them in contact with lots of women (bartender, nightclub doorman, etc.), I can’t say I’ve known any service industry men who did all that well with professional women. I’m sure there are some out there, but it seems like for the most part, if you aren’t a professional, you’re better off unemployed when it comes to getting professional women than you are pushing carts or cleaning tables.

That’s probably mostly a status thing – while a middle manager in an office is clearly higher status than a grocery store checkout clerk (and she didn’t work this hard to achieve a high status position herself only to lower herself to be with low status men), a man who’s unemployed yet still dressed in attractive, upscale clothes, who speaks charmingly and eloquently, and knows how to move within professional circles is something of a mystery... and he’s fascinating because of it.

Chase Amante

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, hope you're fine


Hey Chase, hope you're fine man.
And Dave, I've got some questions and thought you could help me out.
So, in "fashion for men" chase talks about contrast and states
that black outfit look better on men with lighter skin tone than those
with darker ones.
I'm a dark brown Asian and I know that white outfits look better on me
but I just love black. I want to have be "darkly seductive".
I love wearing black shirts, t shirts etc.... How can I achieve that?
Any ideas on looking darkly seductive despite my dark skin tone?

Another question : What types of glasses are considered "badass" and
attractive to girls?
By the way, I'm glad you're here to answer comments, Dave.
I had never realized how tiring it could be for Chase. Its great you're giving
him a hand Bro, you are doing a great job!

David Riley's picture

Much Appreciated


Hey Anon,

Thanks for the positive words of encouragement, I really appreciate it. Now as fair as getting dark colors to match your skin tone, it's really simple. You just want to have a few highlight accents so your outfit is completely overpowering your skin tone. You want your outfit to bring you out and not tuck you in. What I mean is you can wear black shirts and t-shirts just don't go completely black. You can wear a black t shirt with your choice of pants. Black goes with everything so just pick a color that works for you. Normally, what I do since I'm a dark skinned guy myself. I wear either black pants and black shoes with a different color shirt.

Style: This way I can get my taste of black in without completely drowning myself out. You can also go with a traditional suit of black shoes, black pants,white dress shirt, and any color tie. I wear black t shirts that have some accents on them. The t shirt is mostly black but a splash of color never hurts either. I also have a very unique black and floral trucker hat that helps me stand out when wearing black.

http://www.tillys.com/tillys/variants.aspx?prod=228631957&cid=1098&ctlg=...

Glasses: As far as glasses I normally go with frames that are smaller and more compact. The types you see guys wearing that give them a sophisticated look. Overall though the glasses have to be in balance with your outfit. I would suggest going to your local eye glass place and seeing what frame best matches your face. I go for more rectangular frames with thin wiring. Play around with it and see which ones you like.

Take care,

Just Dave

Danny's picture

please define "service industry" women


Dear Chase,

Can you please define "service industry" women? Thanks!

Like is it a server at a restaurant or bar-tender, things like that? What about high school/secondary school teachers etc.

So basically "professional women" are the ones who earn a Bachelor Degree or higher and their jobs require some technical skills?

Please clarify.

David Riley's picture

Definitions


Hey Danny,

As per wikipedia "The service industries (More formally termed: 'tertiary sector of industry' by economists) involve the provision of services to businesses as well as final consumers. Such, therefore, include accounting, tradesmanship (like mechanic or plumber services), computer services, restaurants, tourism, etc."

So yes it would include bartenders and servers at restaurants.

Professional women, would include doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc . . . Hope that clears it up a little better.

Just Dave

uForia's picture

I'm sure you know about this but..


This is going off-topic from this article, but I'm sure you heard about the incident in UC Santa Barbara, and it's awfully close to where you live. I did some thinking and analysis on what made him do this, and I came to the conclusion that the women had a lot of options in SoCal, so the levels of sexual inequality (Let's say there's a sexual Gini coefficient) is very high. The shooter was actually an intelligent boy, like many incelibates out there, but he clearly lacked knowledge in economics. Ignorant of the harsh economic truths, he felt entitled and very embittered about the whole situation.

Chase, there are many "nice guys" out there feeling embittered just like this boy and it concerns me that more shootings like this are bound to happen, especially in an environment like my university (Uneven male/female ratio, frustrated males and ruthless females). Even I had these kinds of thoughts to be honest 6 months ago, even as a high-achieving person in the lens of the average American. I took upon your advice on an article to not be bitter but it took quite some time for me to heal from it.

Edit: I also remember you suggest guys start out in some place that has stiff male competition and also attractive females (Like Santa Barbara). I'm afraid that might be bad advice because it might cause males to be embittered even more and more. I remember experiencing myself the darkness of the stark inequality when I ended up going to the hospital after consuming a lot of alcohol. And my college is in the East. Imagine it being a lot worse in Santa Barbara.

In the end however, I still remain a virgin as of today. My question to you is, how long did it take for you personally to actually get laid after starting to pick up on the arts of seduction? There's only so long before males get fed up and join sites like PUAHate and start killing people.

David Riley's picture

Entitlement vs. Hardwork


Hey uForia,

I really appreciate your honesty and that you've continued to work hard despite feeling frustrated at times. I can't answer for Chase personally but for me, once I started really approaching women hard core I got my first lay in about a couple months. Keep in mind however I wasn't starting completely from ground zero. I was a freshmen RA and had friends who likes to party. I used whatever resources I could to constantly go out and meet new women. So when it came time to pull, I conveniently had my own room to go back to. From there I was able to make my move without fear of interruption.

The thing I would say frustrates most guys is that they put too much pressure on themselves and women. They go out everyday with the sole goal of "getting laid". That's an awesome goal if you've already had previous success. I'm not saying it's impossible to get laid off the back, but you need a solid tested process for that. You have to know how to read women and socialize with them. You have to know what to say and what not to say. You have to have an amazing sense of style and warmth, A lot of guys read a couple articles, go out in the field, don't get laid, and say this stuff is rubbish. The problem is too many guys want to run before they can even crawl. The thing that most guys have to come to terms with is not taking rejection personally. I get rejected from time to time and so do a lot of other authors. You have to go out everyday and make an honest effort of meeting a woman.

Stay strong,

Just Dave

The M's picture

Boyfriend zone, 2nd date sex


Hi Chase and Dave,

If you're also a professional man and you say stuff about how exciting your future will be, doesn't that place you in the boyfriend zone, even if you're sexy?

Also, if you have a first date but don't have sex, can you get sex on the second date, or do you have to do the "3 date whirlwind romance" thing that Chase wrote about? Does it mean you're in the boyfriend zone? Is it possible to succeed if you skip the "structured/fun date" and just invite her over?

Thanks!

Best,
The M

David Riley's picture

It's Possible!


Hey M,

It's actually very possible to sleep with a woman on the second date. A woman's guard will be way less down on the second date. The reason being is because she won't be too worried about coming off as a slut. Now, telling a girl your professional is fine but downplay it a bit. I actually work at a hospital right now, but I tell girls it's only part time. Even though I work there full time and make good money. The reason being is you want to avoid showing too much value to the girl. Otherwise she will want to slow down the process completely. Sometimes, I even make the girl's job seem like a bigger deal than mine. "Wow you sure sound like the breadwinner, you'll make a great provider." I sometimes kid to girls about this, it takes the pressure off of me. Because now I've framed her as the one who will be providing not me. Here's the thing, girls will put you in the boyfriend zone if they view you as a provider.

To not be viewed as a provider don't act like a potential boyfriend. You have to be outcome independent. You have to escalate physically and make sure to touch her often on the date. Bring up sex talk in a sexy way. Women can not resist sleeping with sexy men. I invite women straight over my house these days on the first date. I frame her intensely as the aggressor as well. "I hope you're not gonna take advantage of me." or "I'm not that kind of guy who does these thing on the second date." I steal girls lines right out of their mouths and it drives them crazy. They can't stand it because they are the ultimate chaser. When you get a girl to be the ultimate chaser you can sleep with her on the second date. Make a move on her no longer than 10 minutes of her being in your house. Any longer then things will get weird and she'll leave. Remember to move fast with precision.

Stay focused,

Just Dave

Essay writer's picture

A super piece of essay.


Hey Dave,
I see on this site that you guys have amazing writing skills
when it comes to articles.
Any tips on getting stupendous pieces of writing
in the form of essays ( I'm in high school).
Its quite out of subject but I really would appreciate if
you could explain to me the basic rules
so I can make an outstanding essay on whatever the subject is.
( By the way, the essay must be around 250-300 words)
Thanks Dave.

David Riley's picture

Outlines


Hey Essay,

300 words is roughly about 3 paragraphs or about a page double spaced. The biggest thing about writing is getting the skeleton. You want to put the basic and fundamental points into a outline. This way the outline will keep you from rambling and going off topic. It's also very important to organize your thoughts. When your thoughts are organized, your essay will just flow naturally. Go on google and even look up some good essay examples. Make sure to stick to the prompt if you have one. Quotes are also very helpful to have in essays as well because it brings together the theme of the essay. Anyway these are just some basic things to help you get started.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, Great stuff. Could


Hey Chase,

Great stuff. Could you do a bit on game/tips for guys a bit on the short side? I know most of the same principles apply, but any anecdotes of talented shorter seducers or tips in general would be great.

David Riley's picture

Noted!


Hey Anon,

I will let Chase and the other authors know of your request.

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Emotional Blackmail


Greetings Chase

Lately I have been told by a friend that he his girlfriend has been using emotional blackmail from time to time and he had to fight it.
Now it got me thinking how often does my girlfriend use emotional blackmail. But what exactly is emotional blackmail in a relationship ? How can I tell if a girl is using it ? Could you make a topic on it and possibly how to deal with this sort of problem in a relationship ?

Regards
Jack

David Riley's picture

Guilt Trip


Hey Jack,

Emotional black mail is when a girlfriend will hold something over your head that you did recently or a long time ago in the relationship even after you apologize. She will often say things like "Remember that one time" or "But you did this". Women do it to gain the upper hand in the relationship. Beyond all that it's about control, you did something to hurt the woman and she wants to make sure it doesn't happen again. The problem is she may not trust you as much so she wants to limit your movements. The best weapon for her is emotional black mail. It can be very devastating for relationships. One of the best things you can do is call it out.

http://www.girlschase.com/content/fighting-relationship-causes-and-cures

http://www.girlschase.com/content/end-relationship-drama-these-2-rules

These are two helpful articles that address the issue as drama. I will contact Chase and the other articles about a possible article on Guilt Tripping in Relationships.

Take care,

Just Dave

Beginner's picture

Already Alone?


Hello, I have a little question when a girl is already alone in like, closing times of work or in a car of a parking lot. There are articles pointing to isolation and transitioning, thus meaning to move the girl, then going to a place to escalate, but what if she has already met those requirements? Where no one will bother us and we are free to do whatever? Is it possible to form connections and escalate without moving her? Is quick relationship from stranger to lover in such a brief time even possible in situations like these?

David Riley's picture

Very Possible


Hey Beginner,

When a girl is already alone, you have a lot more control of the siutation. Like you mentioned outside inference is almost completely diminished. The best things to do is these situations is not to startle her and put her at ease. You want to go direct, that way she's not confused or worrying about your intentions. You want to encourage her to put her guard down.

"Hey just thought you were cute and wanted to say hi. I'm Dave." From there you can follow up and ask if she's single. This way she's knows your intentions that you want to be romantically involved. This will make the seduction process a lot easier. From there since she's alone and no one is around, she'll be at ease. This is also a lot easier if there aren't a lot of people around. Because then she won't worry about looking too easy. You can also mention when talking, "I just want to get to know you better." Ask her interesting questions about herself, and even suggest going to sit down in a different location. You still want to get some type of compliance from a girl. You can ask to see her nails or look at her earrings. Note I said compliance and not forceful, keep in mind you don't want to alarm her. Once she has her guard down, you get more comfortable with her. I would actually suggest heading back to your place or suggest chilling somewhere for a bit. If she's got somewhere to go or you do, suggest a meet up at a later time. Make sure to grab her number and text her the same day of getting it.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit,

Just Dave

identity 's picture

identity types


Chase or to anyone, what about if i used one of the male identity types like being an artist since i can play up the unemployed (not having real world credentials) and balanced it out with being the business man? since its 20% art and 80% business when it comes to the art world. I do not dress like a hipster or an art emo kind of guy but more rather conservative casual (dockers) like the stuff you see at macy's website. any inputs? i have long hair with a goatee. thanks!

David Riley's picture

Charming


Hey Identity,

The male identity could work if you add some charm to it, and you're still dress in a presentable way like you mentioned. You want to put her at ease knowing that you're not a long term candidate. You don't want her to slam the breaks on you, and try to put you in the provider category. Normally, when you meet professional women you can get to go on and on about themselves. From it's all about cementing a physical connection since you've established an emotional connection. I would recommend playing around with the identity and measuring the results. Tweak it to your liking and find out what works best for you. You could potentially come up with something game changing for yourself.

Take care,

Just Dave

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