Stop Being So Judgmental: It's All Actor-Observer Bias


how to be non-judgmentalI've been wanting and meaning to write an article on how to be non-judgmental on here for some time. However, I simple hadn't had quite the right angle to come at the piece with... hadn't, that was, until I did some digging into the depths of social psychology and came up with a gem.

Lots of people have asked for such an article; here was M, a little over a month ago, on the post on being a challenge to women:

One other question: could you please write a post sometime on how to be non-judgmental and more constructive and encouraging? Many times I find myself thinking during a conversation, "Hmm, your career path/school/etc. sounds pretty dismal...why are you so unambitious? Not really sure what I can say that would be both encouraging and true." The conversation of course shuts down pretty fast after that. But I know that there IS something both encouraging and true I could say, and if I didn't have that thought in the way, I would probably be able to relate to the person and think to say it.

Best,
M

Learning how to be non-judgmental is a powerful addition to the mental tools of any seducer - heck, any salesperson, business owner, employer, employee, teacher, student, parent, child, or friend. Being non-judgmental opens doors and unlocks verdant gardens of opportunity forever shut away and cordoned off from those less tolerant minds of the world.

Yet, it seems like such a painfully difficult thing to become... there are studies that show that even self-professed egalitarian individuals still have under-the-radar gut judgmental reactions (good or bad) to people of different races or creeds... which they then promptly rein back in.

So what is this whole non-judgmental thing really about? Can you ever truly be free of judgment... or is it all just self-delusion?

I have some interesting answers for you in this post; and a lot of it starts with a little thing called actor-observer bias.


actor-observer bias

Once, while in a debate over the existence of "good and evil," I had a friend swearing how wrong I was in arguing with him that there was no such thing.

"All right then," I asked him, "who decides what's good and what's evil?"

That stumped him for a minute. "Things just are good or evil," he professed at last.

"Let's say that's so," I said. "Then what if," I continued, "I say that you are evil. I say that you are evil incarnate; the devil himself. I say this from a pulpit in front of millions of people. And I get a number of people to believe it. Does that mean that you are? Everyone believes that you are a man of evil; therefore, it must be so."

He sputtered a second, then said, "Well, if everyone thinks so, then maybe I am." But I knew he didn't mean it.

There's a problem with labeling people "good" and "evil"; that problem, of course, is that from any one individual's perspective, he himself is never evil.

Ask everyone on Earth if there are evil people out there, and 99% of them will tell you "yes there are." Ask those same people if they are evil, and 100% of them will tell you "no - they're good people."

Everybody thinks he's a "good person" at heart, no matter what he does, and he has explanations for his actions, no matter what they are. There are very, very few people in the world who really think that they may be "bad people," and these are usually only individuals with personality disorders who come from a background of being told they were "bad" by parents and other caregivers as children.

Yet, despite the fact that no one is, in his own eyes, a "bad person," almost everyone out there is convinced that "bad people" exist.

Is the world mad? Or is there something else at play?


Introducing Actor-Observer Bias

There's an interesting little quirk in psychology.

It affects one of the major perception differences in how people see themselves versus how they see others.

This quirk is called "actor-observer bias."

The way actor-observer bias works is, when we are attributing the rationale for an individual's doing or being a certain something, we examine why they do things in three lights:

  1. Reasons or "causal history for reason" (CHR) explanations

  2. Desire reasons or belief reasons

  3. Belief reason markers (what someone thought or presumed)

(it was formerly believed that there were two dimensions examined, situation vs. personality, but this theory has since been discredited and the current theory supported by modern research)

I'll briefly explain what each of these is:

  • A reason is just that - why specifically someone wanted to do something

  • A CHR explanation is a reason tied to background - "He's a risk-taker because he grew up poor and never had much to lose" "She's good at math because she's Asian and her parents pushed her to be"

  • A desire reason is something someone did simply because he wanted to

  • A belief reason is something someone did because he held a conviction

  • A belief reason marker is an explanation of what someone though, assumed, or presumed (like, "John thought that if he bought her flowers for their date, she'd be impressed by how romantic he was," or, "Kelly assumed if she told John she was getting tired, he'd invite her to come home with him; instead, he just dropped her off at her place and wished her goodnight")

Now here's the interesting part: how you describe your own intentions, and how you describe the intentions of others, differs along all three of these points. The differences are in these ways:

  1. People grant themselves more reasons (vs. CHR explanations) than they do others

  2. People grant themselves more beliefs (vs. desires) than they do others

  3. People use fewer belief reason markers than they ascribe to others

That is to say, if someone asked you to describe your own actions, and then describe my actions, you'd almost certainly:

  • Attribute your actions to very specific reasons, but mine to things that have to do with my background

  • Attribute your actions due to beliefs you hold, but mine to things I want

  • Attribute my beliefs much more to things I thought or assumed were the case

There's a catch, though; this isn't black or white. It's along a continuum.

And the closer you feel to someone (or something), the more you explain their behavior like you would your own and the less you'd explain it like something you felt totally removed from (a large crowd's behavior; an animal's behavior; etc.).

The interesting thing is, you may grant your pet cat Harriet more reasons and beliefs and fewer belief reason markers than you do your annoying neighbor Carlton, simply because you feel closer to her than you do to him.


What's All This Have to Do with Being Judgmental?

Imagine, if you will, someone you'd normally judge.

This might be a fat person. Or a rude person. Or someone with lots of tattoos. Or someone who hates tattoos. It might be a white person or a black person or an Asian person or an Indian person. It might be a religious person, or someone who's not religious. It might be someone of a different political party from you. It might be a feminist or (if you happen to be one of our female readers), perhaps a men's rights activist. It could be someone from another country than yours, or someone who speaks a different language.

It could be anyone, so long as it's someone you have judgmental feelings about.

how to be non-judgmental

Imagine you found out this person just took three pieces of chocolate cake from a cake that was supposed to be for the entire office you work in, and everyone was supposed to get a piece... but now they can't, because this person took three.

Explain that person's behavior.

I'll give you a minute.

If you're really interested in this, write down your explanation, too.

Got it?

...

...

Good.

Now, imagine it was YOU who took those three pieces of chocolate cake. Now explain the behavior.

If you stop and look at those explanations, you're going to notice, almost without fail, you're giving yourself a lot more "sympathy" and this other person a lot less of it.

Your explanations treat you as a more intelligent, independent, whole person, while your explanations of that other person treat them as less of a intelligent, independent, whole person.

About this other person you might say, "Well, he took the cake because he's overweight and because he comes from a background where people just take what they want without thinking much about it. He probably really wanted cake and assumed that nobody else would care, or that no one else in the office really liked cake all that much."

Meanwhile, about yourself you'd probably say, "I waited to take any cake at all until I thought everyone else in the office who thought they might want a piece had one. I even asked the office secretary if she thought it'd be okay if I took more than one piece, and she said, 'Sure - take it all if you want! I don't think anyone else is going to have anymore cake.' And I still left another three slices there anyway."

So what will your end thoughts be about yourself versus this other person?

Well, you, of course, are totally justified in your actions.

But him... well, he's just an overweight guy from an unrefined background who wants to eat a lot of cake and makes false assumptions about the rest of the office.

Is it starting to be clearer how actor-bias asymmetry influences how judgmental you are of others?


actor-observer bias

So where's the problem in this asymmetry in how we view the motivations of others not so closely related to us versus how we view the motivations of ourselves and those close to us?

It's something I began paying attention to in 2009 as "emotional association" and "emotional dissociation."

At that point, I went through some tumult with an ex-girlfriend I should've let go of, but was too emotionally unfamiliar with the situation at the time to do what I knew I should do... so I held on. And I got her back - but when I did, I could tell that she was not the same person with me that she had been before.

Where before she'd been clearly attached to me and very close to me, now there was a distance... it was like we were strangers.

She had dissociated herself from me emotionally. She no longer related to me at an emotional level... I was "othered."

I realized then how large a role emotional association and dissociation played in judging: the closer and more associated to someone you are, the less you judge them; and the farther and more dissociated to someone you are, the more you judge them.

This, then, perhaps is why so many religious leaders and philosophers tell you to "love thy neighbor;" only through close emotional association can you truly free your mind from judgment.


Who're You Reading Right - Them or You?

Before we delve more into that though, I want to circle back around to actor-observer and talk about these assessments of rationales. When you start ascribing rationale to individuals - whether yourself, someone close, someone not so close, groups of people, or anything else - who are you most right about - the people closer or those who are farther away?

We only have those two options, really. Either:

  1. You're more right in looking at reasons and beliefs, and you'd have a more accurate picture of others' intentions and rationales if you extended the same assessment of reason and belief to them that you use with yourself and those close to you, or

  2. You're more right in looking at CHR explanations, desires, and belief reason markers, and you'd have a more accurate picture of yourself and those close to you if you extended the same assessment of reason and belief to yourself and them that you use with those farther from you

how to be non-judgmentalIt's fascinating to consider. And really, if you're thinking about your rationales and those who are close to you one way, and the rationales of others farther from you another way... it's a mental fallacy.

The actual reality is, it's somewhere in the middle. When you look at yourself and those close to you, you give yourself far too much credit in the "logic" department ("I had very good reasons for what I did, and I only acted as my beliefs allow!"). Conversely, when you look at others farther from you, you peg them too much as unthinking actors simply following their programming ("His background determines his actions as he pursues the things he wants, influenced somewhat by what he thinks may be the case").

But if you ask me, the reality falls closer to how we see others than to how we see ourselves.

The conscious mind - the thing you probably think of as "you" - does not "decide" to do anything, no matter how much it feels like you consciously control your own actions. In fact, by the time you become aware that you'd like to reach down and pick up that pencil on the table, the instructions to your muscles to pick it up were already on their ways.

In the article on second date strategies, we discussed the mental phenomenon of rationalization, and how adept the mind is at creating solid-seeming reasons for why it did what it's done.

The more I've learned about rationalization, the less I've come to trust "reason." And the more reason has begun to seem like a hollow shell, used to dress up our actions and make them seem more controlled and less robotic.

I don't think your "reasons" for doing something are the reason you did it at all. Nor do I think my reasons are. And belief more and more seems merely polite clothing for desire.

No, I think we are all the results of our backgrounds, cultures, genes, and upbringings, we are all blindly following our desires but telling ourselves they're our beliefs, and we are all running off of belief reason markers - the things we think and assume are the truth, but that we don't actually know indisputably as fact.

You and I are no less slaves to our past history and our genetic makeup and the misconceptions in our heads than the people we judge. We're all complicated machines running on the programs built into us.


Should You Want to Be Non-Judgmental?

The road of life is rocky and you may stumble too,
So while you point your fingers someone else is judging you.

- Bob Marley and the Wailers

You might wonder if being non-judgmental is something you even want to be in the first place. What, you want to be one of those pushover wet dishrag namby-pamby "love everybody" hippies?

Well, that's not what being non-judgmental is about.

You see, there are two related qualities, but most people mix them up: these are judging and discriminating.

The word "discrimination" gets a bad rap in modern society. But it's become misused. want to know what the very first definition is for the word "discrimination" on Dictionary.com is? Here it is right here:

dis·crim·i·na·tion [dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn]
noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.

That's the definition I refer to when I talk about discrimination. I'm talking about making a distinction.

And how I use it is this: I like to say that you ought not to be judgmental but you ought to be discriminating.

Unfortunately, judging is another word that's taken on a raft of cultural baggage unbecoming of its original meaning; unlike discriminate, though, the word seems to carry a deeper train of cultural baggage with it.

The way most people judge is that they judge things morally and emotionally: i.e., "this is good," "that is bad;" "this person is smart," "this person is dumb;" "that person is lazy," "this person is a hard worker."

And these judgments carry emotional heft.

But moral, emotional judgment wears at the soul; it poisons the judger much more than the judged. If you strongly dislike people of a certain race, or religion, or nationality, or personality disposition, or group affiliation, this is what's deemed intolerance; and the more intolerance you have, the worse off you are emotionally.

Your world becomes a den of venom and contempt.

Worse still, you push people away and make enemies. People can tell when you do not like them. It seeps out through your pores. It's as clear to those around you as night is from day. And you attract others like that around you... others with souls poisoned with judgment, intent on tearing down and destroying instead of building up and creating.

This is not to say you abandon being discriminating and discerning. In fact, I'm happy to tell you that the less judgmental I became, the more discriminating I became as well, because I had more exceptional people around me to select for the best among.

When you are a judgmental person, most people do not want to spend much time around you... even those you don't judge against but who, like me, want nothing to do with people poisoning those around them with negative thoughts and beliefs that serve as an anchor to progress and enjoyment of life. Therefore, the judgmental individual can only discriminate among the few people who still want to really be around him - and he is thusly forced to lower his standards accordingly.


Beating Weakness and Fear

Judgment seems to come largely from weakness and fear. Fear of what the person or persons being judged might make happen. These fears usually aren't conscious fears, and they're not even rational fears.

Sometimes these fears are based around a weakness - the homophobic man who's actually a closeted homosexual and is fearful of his indiscretions coming to light, for instance; or the treacherous man who rails against treachery in order that he might make a name for himself as a figure of goodness and purity and let as little on about his true nature as he possibly can.

But other times fears are based on limited data points - the native who fears immigrants will take his job or rape his daughters; the conspiracy theorist who thinks the government is targeting him for gossiping about conspiracies on some smalltime Internet forum.

Much of the time, the only way to get rid of this judgment is to go and spend time around the kinds of people you realize you are judging.

Get around them. Learn to see them as people. Come to realize that they have most of the same concerns that you do, deal with the same problems you do, have the same doubts and lack of confidences you do, and get excited and disappointed over many of the same ups and downs you do.

Build new reference points with these new groups of people, and you can very quickly change how you see the world.


How to Be Non-Judgmental

Actor-observer bias (in its current, well-researched incarnation) is real. The way you see yourself and the way you see others is not consistent, and you are viewing one of these two (yourself) too generously, and the other of the two (others) too ungenerously.

If you want to shed the shackles of being judgmental, it comes down to three parts:

  1. Policing your thoughts and stamping out intolerant / judgmental / negative thoughts, as discussed in-depth in "How to Overcome Depression"

  2. Expanding your worldview through travel, meeting diverse groups of people, and learning to empathize with those you're currently most likely to judge

  3. Training yourself to stop listing reasons and beliefs and start seeing your actions and the actions of those close to you as products of your background, history, desires, and belief reason markers (what you / they thought or assumed)

That last one may seem tough to get your mind around, but think of it like this: reasons are excuses. Every time you list a "reason" for doing something, you're excusing yourself (and those you emotionally associate) with blame. Almost everybody does this. Do too much of it, and you end up trapped in victim mentality, in fact.

This tendency to give ourselves excuses that we don't give to others is why you'll see priests and politicians railing against homosexuality, only to find out they have a closeted homosexual lifestyle of their own. They don't struggle with cognitive dissonance because they believe they have reasons for their homosexuality... but others do not, so they judge them.

And it's why you'll see women go around and sleep with a lot of different men very quickly, then turn around and brand as "sluts" other women they see doing the same thing. There's no cognitive dissonance because they had very good reasons for each man they slept with... but those other women, the "sluts;" they just slept around because that's what they do.

This is why anyone who's judgmental against anybody else is judgmental. It's because that person has perfectly good reasons for his own actions, no matter how bad they may look... but other people's actions and behavior are simply products of who that person is.

how to be non-judgmental

Well, I call baloney on that. You've got reasons for what you did?

No, you don't. You're the same as every other person out there - you did what you did because of who you are and what you want and what you assumed. Your "reasons" and "beliefs" only entered the picture as excuses after the fact (or, if you're forward thinking enough, as excuses planned out in advance of the fact).

Stop leaning on them and differentiating yourself from others you aren't all that different from. Our brains all work the same way.


Discriminating... Not Judging

There's one other benefit to discrimination over judgment, too: it's ridiculous, unbelievably, incredibly more efficient.

Imagine you judge someone for, well, let's say being prejudiced against some racial or religious group. Here you are, judging the judger. What happens?

Well, once the person commits some offense (say, criticizing the group she holds prejudice against), you sit there and steam and judge her. "How can she hold prejudice against XYZ group? Doesn't she realize that group is the SAME as us, except for a few tiny differences?! Oh, if I could just SHOW her!" you think.

And then your mood is disrupted.

And then your day is messed up.

Your productivity is shot.

And if this was some girl you were talking to and trying to pull or take to bed... well, you've just lost that one too.

How's it different if you're discriminating?

If you're discriminating, it's a logical filtering process with emotion removed from the equation. So, you hear someone criticize some group she holds prejudice against, and you mentally say, "Oh. This person is prejudiced. That means her heart is filled with a lot of negative feeling in search of an outlet, and this group happens to be catching the brunt of it. I want to steer clear of this person if I want to preserve my calm."

And, just like that, you've discriminated, discerned her as someone not worth your time, and can go about your day.

Or, if she's a cute girl you'd like to take to bed, well, now you know she may be one-night stand material but she isn't girlfriend material. So you've instantly got an easier decision about how to manage things with her and whether continuing to pursue her meets your goals or not.


Resistance to Not Judging

One final note I'd like to address is the resistance I've found among certain people around abandoning judgment. There are people out there who believe that it's good they're judgmental, and they should be judgmental, because their views are 100% true and correct and they see things the way they really are and they only judge things that need to be judged.

As evidenced by the actor-observer bias, this point of view is clearly and unequivocally wrong. No sense holding punches; anyone who thinks that making proclamations about "right and wrong" and "good and bad" and this and that represents a correct, factual state of affairs in the world is flying in the face of A) all the scientific research to the contrary, and B) the opposing opinions of his fellow men living on this planet.

It is very, very good to be discriminating. I highly recommend it. Very few people get much of my time anymore these days, personally, and I am very selective about whom those people are. That doesn't mean I judge other people who don't get my time "unworthy" of it; nor do I judge them as undesirable people, or bad, or "deficient," or anything else. I simply ask myself if spending time on any one given person is a wise investment of that time in light of all the other things I could and need to invest time into, and I decide. It has little to do with emotional judgment, and very much to do with being highly discriminating in how I pay out my time.

However, if you are being judgmental - if you're emotionally writing people off as bad, or disgusting, or foolish, or stupid, or malfeasant, or whatnot... you're shortchanging yourself.

You're trapping yourself in a place where your own unrealistic assessments of yourself as a reasonable, belief-motivated "conscious" person are operating at a superior level to all those products-of-their-backgrounds, desire-motivated "others" operating somewhere below your higher degree of consciousness.

Which is almost certainly false.

Free yourself from judgment. Recognize that all those "reasons" and "beliefs" and "values" and "principles" you keep bandying about as the rationale behind why you did what you did are little more than excuses aimed at relieving you of being a product of your backstory acting in his own interest after his own desires (whatever they may be), and following patchy information based on thoughts and assumptions.

You are not so different from the other people out there with superficial differences from you.


The Benefits

So what's so great about dropping judgment?

Well, for one, life gets a whole heck of a lot more peaceful when you're not constantly stewing with anger / disgust / revulsion / hatred / resentment over whom other people are or what they are doing.

For another, you suddenly start finding it far easier to begin building connections with the people you meet, now that those walls are torn down.

You cease wasting your time, energy, and willpower debating petty trifles with others who don't care and whose minds you won't change.

You become eminently more likeable to well night everyone you meet.

And you get a much more realistic perspective on yourself, too.

So get aware of actor-observer bias, and quit letting yourself off the hook. Once you do, you'll begin seeing yourself as a lot more fallible... and chances are, you'll start finding yourself far more forgiving of the failings of others as a result.

Ciao,
Chase Amante

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Comments

Garrett's picture

Excellent work!


Chase,

I know you dislike being called smart, so I'll refrain from that and instead say this - excellent work!

The fact that you've field tested all of your theories and have been willing to share this information with everyone, is an absolute selfless and dignified act. I think your posts are great because your ability to deconstruct a piece of work into its basic parts, and reveal that information in an easy to understand way is really helpful and enlightening. I did find this post quite thought-provoking/stimulating, so I'll have to read it over again; however, I'm mainly reading it over because it was just that damn good!

Cheers mate, keep it up!
Garrett

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Excellent work!

Author

Garrett–

Glad you liked the article – that one was rather cobbled together over a couple of days, you never really know how those will turn out when you don’t sit down and crank them out in one sitting.

I will temper your enthusiasm and say that writing here isn’t a selfless act – bear in mind this is a business, too, and I wouldn’t be working on it if I didn’t think I could make it grow. Full disclosure, anyway – I’m not one to assume the “suffering servant” mantle ;) Which is not to say that impacting people and impacting the world is not a priority for me too, as it certainly is. For me, it’s about finding a great business opportunity that allows me to make a great and positive impact - right now I think and hope it can be this, at least for the time being.

Chase

NeoPrince's picture

Neutral Voice- Useful?


Hey Chase,
Is speaking with neutral voice tone most of the time effective? It seems like most guys try to force passion and try to be animated and fun while talking to a girl. This seems to be more effective with more beautiful girls because most guys are either nervous or tryhard, and simply being neutral with her especially if she is a stunner throws her off balance and you seem different. I think you mentioned this somewhere but I haven't found it, it was like an aside about complementing a girl as if you were talking about the weather, showing her that she is no big deal to you. I was wondering if you could go over this in a bit more detail. I remember this guy in high school from China with broken English who was quite average looking and rarely showered and often wore the same outfit. He would talk to girls like nothing and "there was just something about him" and a lot of girls found him really desirable. He would speak in this low, effortless voice and he just seemed really amazing to a lot of girls. What do you think of this idea?

Chase Amante's picture

Neutral Voice Tone

Author

NeoPrince-

You want to have some pitch and range in your voice, but a deep / low voice and going for a an effortless feel to it will get you an attractive voice.

Typically, you want maximum range and pitch when you're talking to a crowd - think "news reporter" - but that's for entertainment value and engagement. When you're talking one-on-one with a girl, you want a much more intimate-feeling voice that's closer to how you'd speak to her in the bedroom - low, personal, sexy, drawn out, and slow, with lots of pauses for impact and nonverbal signals. The guys who do best with girls are usually the guys using a bedroom voice with women all the time - like your schoolmate in high school sounds like he was doing.

Chase

Zac's picture

CHASE, I LOVE YOU MAN. HAHA!


HI Chase,

Note: Hey i hope you doing good. You mention being on transit the other day on a certain post that it's so odd for me to not see you in the Girlschase Board. Anyway it makes you look valuable and have things going a lot for you and you are, definitely. Perhaps targeting being online once a month is what i am visualize. Guess i am right? HAHA!

Replying to the previous post, The higher the quality of women, the more often she is to vanish without a trace. I have to admit, this sure happens much but it won't be and i work on it. Thanks to Rob for mentioning Grit. Haha. Btw, i find that beautiful women tend to have good looking fathers or at least fathers who looks like a natural leader, that kind of look, from photos i have seen on facebook last time and real life.

On this post,

Discriminating and Judgemental is like a borderline between love and hate. I have empathy and i have a hard time discriminating because i don't want to be seen as or be judgemental. That was how i perceived this. I finally understand how you saying this, and how this article spread the message. I had friends who were good looking and fun and passionate, and also at the time i had friends who were not so "cool" and have different interest than mine. Meeting people and thought i have to be friends with all. I had too many social circles with no objectives or value to offer them over time. Likewise, I have a hard time back then in mid 2012, and i decided to break off from all group of friends, and also distancing myself and going on a break from almost everyone to really understood where i am and why but to no avail. I could not prioritize nor understood the line between discriminating and judgmental.

However, I can finally mix with a whole lot of people and also know which one i like to spend time most, and also give value, while being warmth to all and be aloof if not so good looking girls who are friends, jump on me because they went into auto-rejection for whatever reason. :) WHOA WHOA WEE

CHASE, I LOVE YOU MAN! LIKE THE SUBJECT TITLE SAYS. X))!!
(just bear with me on this line, you made my day. Thanks man)

Zac

Chase Amante's picture

Beautiful Girls with Dominant Fathers

Author

Zac–

It’s tough to keep up with things when you’ve got a lot of balls in the air. Actually, I’m taking some time to get in and mix it up on the Boards today, so you’ll see me on there in a little bit. Anyway, I’m not intentionally creating a feeling of scarcity around me ;) It’s just what happens when you’re legitimately busy.

Yes, I’ve noticed beautiful women tend to have dominant fathers as well. I’ve seen some research finding that higher IQs and good looks are correlated in individuals, reason being that the higher IQ males tend to be more successful and more attractive (economic success and sense of humor are both related to intelligence, and both are attraction switches in women) and thus are able to snag the more beautiful females, leading to children with both higher IQs and better looks over the generations. I haven’t seen any research on it, but I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a similar correlation between dominance and beauty – the more dominant men net more beautiful women, and yield more dominant, attractive offspring.

On judging vs. discriminating – glad the article resonated, man, and great to hear you connected the dots on social circle and the people you want in your life and value you can provide back to them too. It sounds like you’ve already arrived in a place where you don’t need this article, actually! Which is not so bad a thing.

Chase

Zac's picture

thought you might have a hand on this


I thought you might have a hand on this. i guess by now when you are somewhat popular, you tend to lose some potential friends as well. An event where i was part of a committee that took charge of a group of people out of as many as 2000. I am just taking care of 30 people. I am friendly and warmth with a lot of people in the other groups that the main committee find me a bit of an annoyance knowing that this people from all different groups tend to come to me directly while i am working with other people, they came and want to talk to me. This cause a problem because basically i can't talk with all of them. and some of them did went into auto-rejection after many times that i can't really help talking to them.

This is just one problem.

Early January i have security talking nicely to me because i was warmth to them prior to clubbing, and my friends did a mistake by not keeping his bag in a locker, rather put at the side of the club. The security saw me and talk with me warmthly, asking "what happen?" and he is very relax but he saw my friend who did the mistake and went a barrage. I stood at aside without looking, knowing my friend did was wrong.

Is there anyway i can handle all this properly?

Zac

Anonymous's picture

Chase, I want to thank you


Chase,

I want to thank you for this website and for everything its content has done to change my life so far.

I hadn't been in a sexual relationship for many years... I'm not bad looking (women often say the contrary, in fact), I'm fairly intelligent, I'm a nice person... and yet people around me were getting the girls and I was not. I then chanced upon this website. Now I had heard of the PUA community before, but for whatever reason (probably laziness mixed with scepticism at the techniques) I had never bothered to engage with it... until now. About a month after reading the content on this site and really becoming interested, I have the confidence to approach and date women, and I'm dating (and have lost my virginity to) a really great girl.

I went from zero to dating and having sex in about a month, and I have lost all feeling of neediness; if she blows me off (which is VERY unlikely going by how into me she is), I have the confidence to know that there is an abundancy of great women out there whom I can date, and I know how to do that. I've also gotten interested in self improvement in a broader sense.

I hope you really enjoy teaching this stuff and take pride in how well you teach and in how many men's lives you have changed - you should.

One thing I would like to ask is: could you by way of reply or as an article idea for the future write about how to give a girl an orgasm when she's never had them before? My girl has been with three or so guys before me and has never (not even whilst self-pleasuring) had an orgasm. She says I have gotten the closest and is astonunded at my ability in bed for a first-timer, but no one has been able to quite get her over the edge. I understand about 10% of women have this issue. Is there anything I can do to make her come for the first time?

Thanks again.

Chase Amante's picture

Training Girls to Orgasm

Author

Anon-

That's pretty remarkable progress in a short span of time! I'm happy the site's played some part in that - although of course, most of that's really just you getting out there and making things happen.

I'll add "training girls to achieve orgasm" to the list - that one's actually a fairly lengthy process sometimes (depending on the girl and how detached from her sexuality she is). The best thing you can do for her to get her started is buy her a vibrator - this lets her play around with something stimulating on her own so she can used to achieving orgasms. Once she's learned how to orgasm from the vibrator, she'll progressively start to enjoy sex more and more with you and - assuming a little bit of technique on your end (see Ricardus's "How to Be a Good Lover (and Give a Girl Orgasms)) - she'll eventually learn to reach orgasms from sex.

Chase

Wes's picture

Great article Chase. Ive been


Great article Chase. Ive been waiting for a post like this.

This video came out today from a guy I'm subscribed to on youtube and it really reminds me of ricardus' "are you single" question. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1mRM1VwUiYA&feature=g-high-u
I just wanted to know what you thought about this. I noticed there was no connection building or any tactics whatsoever and they managed to get a number...
Why will they give their number like that? i know that: " because you're straight forward" can't be the only the reason.

Other than that...do you recommend doing this? i was thinking of doing it to girls whenever I'm in a rush to go somewhere. Or it can be turned into an immediate date.

Chase Amante's picture

Quick Numbers

Author

Wes-

Phone numbers are (actually) extremely easy to get - inexperienced guys tend to glorify them (they see one of their pals get a phone number and go, "WHOA... you got her PHONE NUMBER!"), and tend to view them as some sort of golden ticket to success with women, but they're hardly that - many phone numbers flake, others the girl tries to convert the guy into a friend or a supporter of some type rather than go on dates with him. You can do all kinds of things to get them successfully - it's not really the getting of the number that's impressive, it's what happens once you've got it. I've known guys who weren't all that good with women who'd go out and collect 20 to 30 phone numbers a day just because that's what they knew how to do.

I wasn't able to pull up the video (problem with Quicktime), but if you want a snappy number close, check out this post and Ctrl + F and search for "two minute number close":

How to Get a Phone Number from a Girl Every Time You Ask

Fast number closes can work, but they're hit or miss. I'd usually only advise doing it if you're legitimately in a rush and you see a really beautiful girl... otherwise, you'll have a difficult time pulling it off convincingly (and will get a lot of flakes and "let's be friends").

Chase

LoverBoy's picture

Anxiety still cripples me


Hi Chase,

Great post, hope you do not mind I digress the topic as per my subject.

I've read your post regarding overcoming approach anxiety, anxiety in men and are you nervous with woman.

I knew it clear in my head that

1) I need to JUST APPROACH to clear the initial fear
2) SHOOT First talk Later
3) Nobody gives a damn about you getting rejected

But whenever I see a cute girl, I just froze upon the thoughts of I'm going to approach her!

I've rerun through the pointers you made in your blog regarding anxiety but nevertheless, I cant help it but feel a huge nervousness between my chest which totally cripples me. My mind kept repeating "go to her!" but my body wont budge! :(

Okay, I apologize for rants and I truly wanted to put your teachings to good use, but I feel like a loser whenever I failed to do it!

With all due respect, all your posts are as awesome as heaven. I just feel depressed after all those times I tried going out alone and still fails to approach any girl.

Thank you & have a nice day.

Chase Amante's picture

Crippled by Anxiety

Author

LoverBoy-

If you absolutely, positively can't do it, I'd suggest finding ways to force yourself to.

For instance, you might grab a buddy of yours and say, "Look man, I've GOT to start meeting girls. I want you to go out with me - I'll buy you a drink - and I have to walk up to at least three girls I don't know and at least say 'hello.' If not, I want to punch me in the stomach as hard as you can at the end of the night three times / if not, I want you to refuse to let me go home, NO MATTER WHAT, if I don't do it. Force me to sleep on the street if I don't do it." If you do that, you're probably going to do it.

You're coming up against a fear here - a fear of talking to a girl (which, when you stop and think about it objectively, is kind of a silly fear, right? She's some little girl... it's not like she's going to cut your kidney out and feed it to a pack of snarling mongooses) - and it's an irrational fear, but it's a fear nevertheless. The only way you beat it is by either getting it out of your head and just doing it (which you've tried, and can't seem to do), or by having something you fear MORE in PLACE of it.

So figure out what's going to scare you more than talking to a girl, and put that fear in place. You'll do it then.

(if you aren't quite ready for scaring yourself into action, you might also give the Newbie Assignment on the forums a try - there are a lot of other guys doing the assignment and chronicling their adventures on the Journals Board... but even THAT doesn't do it for you, yeah, it's time to get a friend or anyone to kick your ass into approaching and force you to do it)

When I used to coach guys, if I'd get a guy with particularly bad approach anxiety - these guys usually stall for time by asking lots of "What if...?" questions, like, "What if I go up to her and say 'hi' and she ignores me?" or, "What if that guy who's with her is her boyfriend?" - eventually I'd have to tell them, "I'm not answering a single question more until you go up and talk to a girl," and then just push them like crazy to do it. Once they're talking to girls, they quickly realize women aren't horrible monsters that are going to devour their spleens - they're just ordinary people, who talk to them back. You'll have a guy who spends half the night trying to avoid talking to women, and then once he finally talks to one, all the rest are a lot easier and he talks to 10 or 20 more girls that night.

Try it. You'll be amazed how easy it is once you're actually talking to her. Find a way to force yourself to do it, whatever you have to do. It's the only way you get moving.

Chase

Walls's picture

Interest in People


Chase, are there any other articles, other than the reference points article, about gaining more of an interest in people? I'm kind of an introvert... I want to branch out and be an extrovert, but there's just some wall there holding me back emotionally. I hate to sound awful, but I lose interest when I'm talking to people sometimes, as my mind just thinks insecurely and begins to tell me "you're social energy is draining." The problem with my social energy draining is, it makes me less likely to connect with women. When I connect with someone, it feels great and I am charismatic... it's just that it doesn't happen often enough.

I will shy away from some people (example: someone I know/am more than slightly acquainted with on campus is walking near me, but I don't engage in conversation.) I can be very awkward. But when I'm feeling the social energy, man am I charismatic.

I grew up an only child of a single mother, and I would often play by myself without complaint. I put myself out there plenty, attending parties, surrounding myself with people... but my nature kicks in and I shell up.

Basically -- my natural introversion gives me low social energy, which makes me seemingly awkward. Uh, help! I've got potential through the roof. Any advice?!

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Interest in People

Author

Walls-

There's two things there - interest in people, and your social energy.

As you spend more time socializing, your "energy reserve" will naturally increase. I've met lots of people who've boasted to me that they were "natural introverts" who used to never talk to anyone who come across like the most chatty, gregarious, outgoing people you'll ever meet: salesmen, college professors, public speakers, all types. It's certainly doable.

The other one is the interest - hitting it off with people happens when you find people you can connect with and topics you connect with them on. Much of that is reference points, yeah. There aren't other articles about developing an interest in people, but interest is inherently selfish, and lack of interest is inherently stemming from a belief that this person (whoever he or she is) doesn't have anything he can contribute to your life. It isn't socially polite to say that, and you'll say, "Well, no, I know that ANYONE could contribute to my life!," but there's a difference between knowing that logically and believing it emotionally. You may know it, but you don't yet believe it.

How do you believe it? Again, reference points. You can help it along through visualization (which I'm probably doing a post on sometime in the next week), which is effectively mental training with pseudo-memories on your own.

Really comes down to just building up more experience, either in real life, or via visualization. No other shortcuts than that, I'm afraid - you can't will yourself or force yourself to become interested in people, it simply needs to happen naturally as you get to know people more and more deeply and come to realize that everyone has a role to play in your life - and you frequently end up surprised, looking back, how small or large that role ends up being.

Chase

The M's picture

Reasons vs. desires, and smoothness


Hey Chase,

Thanks for the post! Glad to see my name there. :)

A bit confused about your stance on the "reasons vs. desires" spectrum. You said that we all lie more on the "desires" side. But that's also the way we view people we're the most judgmental about (e.g. the fat guy taking the three slices of cake). So how can we view people as motivated by their background and desires and still not judge them?

I also want to mention an indirect way to help become less judgmental: as you said, every judgment gives you a negative emotional reaction. As you train yourself to be calmer, more relaxed, and more smooth, these judgments/reactions become more and more obvious and disruptive to you, so you naturally end up dropping them in order to maintain your (very pleasant, for both you and others) state of smoothness. This has happened to me and I think it's working...

Best,
The M

Chase Amante's picture

Background and Desires

Author

M-

I just put another post up in response to one of your comments, too. Looks like it's M Week on Girls Chase!

The objective in becoming aware of the fact that you, yourself, are as driven by background and desires as everyone else is aimed at being the great equalizer: you're no more special than anyone else is. You may have had a different background, but if they've missed opportunities or training or upbringing you've had, you can always point someone in the right direction or provide those things yourself; and desires are not so different between people, though sometimes triggered by different things. It becomes very difficult to judge others on their desires when you realize that you yourself are driven by equally base urges (even if you have really good reasons for that!).

Dismissing judgmental thoughts is important and powerful, I agree - and, not indirect at all! It's direct mind intervention - training your brain to quite filling your head with poison. And it works. The neural pathways that go unused become overgrown and forgotten... train your brain that every time it starts going down Judgment Rd. the gate to that pathway gets slammed shut in its face, and it stops taking that pathway altogether.

Chase

Balla's picture

What Up Chase


What up Chase! I was wondering does it really work if I think to myself I have to meet this girl than thinking in the negative like I'm too nervous? I wanted to know if you say to yourself the positive will it really trick you into thinking that way or is it wishful thinking?

I want to make approaching fun. Should I smile and have fun or be serious and bored? Im kinda confused because I want to have fun but I don't want to entertain.

How should I go about getting back old club girls?
I doubt they remember me and mostly the interactions were cut short because it got Stale And I just haven't talked to them since. Most of are interactions were just small talk. What kind of text should I send them?

Chase Amante's picture

Having Fun / Reinitiating Texting

Author

Balla-

You should absolutely make approaching fun! When you're smoother, you want it to be a kind of under-the-radar, chill fun, but if you're still nervous it's okay to be a little entertainer-y to get your legs under you. You'll get overall better receptions from women when you're more fun / entertainer-y, it's simply that attraction will be lower and you'll screen in women who are only interested in you socially. But that's okay when you're just getting going. As you get more comfortable approaching, you can tone down the entertainer and go sexier.

On picking things up with girls you left off on via text, see this post of mine on the boards:

Check-In Text If You Haven't Texted in a While

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Supporting the blog


Chase, can you put up something so that those of us who would like to support the site (but don't want to buy anything) can use to contribute. Your blog is a goldmine, and I'm amaze to the amount of breadth and depth that you can cover in each post.

Chase Amante's picture

Support

Author

Anon-

I appreciate the desire to contribute - thank you! We tried placing a donation button on the sidebar for about 6 months a couple years back - site traffic was about 1/100th of what is now then, but there were still a fair amount of visitors, and plenty of regular readers and guys saying the site had helped them out... but no donations for the whole 6 months. I took it down, because asking for donations admittedly looks kind of cheesy, unless you're going to make that your business model (but then again, Wikipeida has donations as its sole business model, and its revenue per user is woeful).

Anyway, I realize that products are not a good fit for properly running this business - people come here for the articles, not the programs. Not sure if you saw the announcement, but we're doing a 180 on the business model (per this post, in January) from product sales to a metered paywall / content subscriptions... that way instead of me shutting down the article division and focusing on us cranking out products and building sales pages and buying advertisements, I can keep the focus on cranking out (even more) content, bringing more talented people in, and revenues simply come from the people who think the site is worth it to them and valuable enough to them to sign up for expanded access to (more than 10 articles / month).

So, again, appreciated - and I understand not wanting to buy products. I've had numerous guys make similar statements and requests. Hopefully you will find the new site valuable enough - and with enough valuable / enticing content on it - that you find yourself become one of our new subscribers sometime next month!

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Interesting stuff


From a young age, very young (maybe ~12) i learned that everybody has a reason, and I learned how to empathize with others. I always thought there was a reason why everybody did the things they do, especially if I thought it was "stupid" or "annoying." this helped me be more understanding towards others. however i have never understood discriminating the way you do.

highly insightful article. this is the kind of content that separates you and makes you much more genuine vs the other run of the mill PUA websites. you actually focus on making people, better.

Chase Amante's picture

Learned Empathy

Author

Anon-

You make a great point here - that empathy (at least in men) tends to be learned.

I came across a study about a year ago about cats and empathy (they have research on everything, apparently), with findings that growing up with a cat didn't effect girls' empathy levels - as they were already naturally as high as they were going to get - but it did effect boys' empathy levels. Apparently, girls are either born more naturally empathetic, or naturally learn empathy because they do so much social interaction growing up (or maybe a combination thereof); boys, however, need to learn empathy if they want to have similar empathetic abilities to women.

Anyway, glad you liked the article - and, thanks for the kinds words!

Chase

Anonymous's picture

hey chase this website is


hey chase this website is truly revolutionary.Wanted to get some insight from you on a not to common scenerio.How would you deal with a situation where your competing with a family member who is in a position of power for women ?What I mean is lets say you have an uncle,dad,or older brother who happens to have more money then you,is better looking then you,and has more game then you and you spend a lot of time with this person because you are in a family business with them and they are the boss of the business.And most of the women you meet during a work week is around them.How would you display more value in this situation and be seen in a more respected way by women,be seen as more dominant and mature without being disrespectuful to you older boss family member?i hate being treated like a young inexperienced person especially in front of women im interested in.but it seems like no matter how i look or how tight my game is in this case,the mature attractive man beats the younger attractive man ,is this generally true? i know this is a loaded question but any response to help me understand and fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Chase Amante's picture

Younger vs. Older

Author

Anon-

Generally, yes - the silverback beats the young buck. Older, more experienced men just have a leg up on the competition - they've been getting girls a lot longer than those youngins have.

When you're up against relatively staunch competition, the best bet usually is to take the opposite tack of whatever the currently more dominant guy is. So if he's loud and outgoing, be quiet and mysterious. If he's assertive and aggressive, be sultry and brooding. When you're with a guy who's ACTING dominant, it's a perfect chance to start putting the Law of Least Effort to good use - find ways to continually be attractive while putting in less effort than him. Once you get this down and attraction starts swinging your way more and more automatically, you'll find he begins to notice this and do the only thing he knows how to do - work harder to try to get more attraction. And the harder he works, the less hard you work, and the more women gravitate toward you and away from him. Law of Least Effort is the judo of seduction; it's using your opponent's own energy against him - in a very calm, non-confrontational, totally blameless way. After all, all you're doing is RELAXING... HE'S the one who's making all the noise and bluster.

Chase

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