Artificial Hierarchies vs. Personal Appeal | Girls Chase

Artificial Hierarchies vs. Personal Appeal

I want to make a brief side trip from seduction today to talk about a broader social distinction you will run into that it’s vitally important to understand.

That is the distinction between artificial hierarchies and personal appeal.

artificial hierarchies

In the broader social arena, when it comes to getting hired on jobs, or dealing with legal issues, or negotiating mano-e-mano, or differentiating even between social circle game and cold approach pickup, you’ll find that most people seem to be stronger in one area – navigating and leveraging artificial hierarchies, or appealing to and swaying individuals personally – than they are the other.

And when you’re in your element, you will often find things easier; conversely, when you’re out of it, things will often become fiendishly hard and you will not know why.

The reason why frequently is because you’re trying to achieve your objectives using the wrong strategy for the situation at hand... because each of these two types of power structures require very different approaches.

Very few people ever come to grasp this well enough to move fluidly back and forth between the two.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

You Chase just guessed what I wanted to get to the point but I just couldn't put it into words. Now I expect article on handling masculinity questioning would be useful. Say your wage is smaller and she keeps telling something on it, say you are physically not so fit and maybe some heart illness, or smth like that keeps you from getting awesome muscles. Sometimes a girl points 'Look to him (some scary looking guy) if he grabbed my ass, how would you ever defend me?'... Those pretty legit ways when she questions one's masculinity can leave someone of guard, I know, it made me this way uncountable times. And even the thing that considers sex - "so you won't stay, and what if I get pregnant? You won't mind about your child?".
Maybe she's already pregnant and wants have to blame for it? Ha.
Or maybe she sees me as high value man to keep with her as good provider... I guess I deal too much with logical side of them even I do my best to employ non verbal attraction, but those hard tests keeps shooting me in the foot. Well, I may seem to much of complainor or too pesimistic, but this one issue really gets me extremely emotional anytime I get a glimpse of it and nothing seems to work. Any thoughts on 'she questions your masculinity, how to handle it' would be appreciated.

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

I'll let Chase and the other author's know about your request.

Just Dave

Sam2's picture

What if you are a flexible cold approacher who thinks social circle game is too slow/inefficient for you and you hit on a woman who brings her hierarchy thinking (i.e. she slow games you, delays sex etc) into her interaction with you? I mean, apart from dropping her and going next.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sam-

There's some measure of this that happens in every seduction (or every negotiation of any sort between two people); each person brings in his and her frames, and the person with the stronger frames wins.

When she wants to move slow and you want to move fast, either you're going to convince her to do things your way, or she's going to convince you to do things her way, or, sometimes, neither of you will succeed at convincing the other and you'll both part ways annoyed at each other.

See these articles for more on frames and winning frame battles:

Chase

JJ's picture

Hey Chase, great article, I was just wondering if you could clear something up for me. Which position would you take when you're in a hiarchy situation that has not yet developed such as rushing a party with tons of new guys. I assume you use the unorganized guidelines at first then try to solidify your position as alpha later. But how would you make this transition while maintaining your social status.

Thank you

J$'s picture

I didn't know you were black, dave. And it seems to me we grew up seeing the same shit, so I can relate to you a lot with what you said. I would do the same thing and girls would love me, when I told them I wouldn't pay for shit. It's a little different now with white girls and other races. The fact that you're black opens my eyes to see that black men can be successful with this advice with all women. Im not a thug or a drug dealer, but I pretty much treat girls the same as they do. Can you give me more tips from what you witnessed from drug dealers, thugs, and what you do to get women?

I'm in a different area and it's so fucking hard to get play from women in my area, they love simps and I'm very far from one. Chase and you guys have been my only mentors with women. I never had anyone teach me game at all and I've been trying and failing a lot and im tired of it. Help a brother out. I appreciate it.

These girls keep saying they won't date guys who don't pay for the first date.

And can you tell me what they did to have these girls spoil them and take care of them. What did they say and do? I'd like to know all of their game and does this work for all races of women. I want to know their exact game because I don't want to be to much of an ass going overboard with the you not getting shit from me.

Thanks dave.

David Riley's picture

Hey J$,

Yeah I'm glad we can relate to a lot of things. It just goes to show you how diverse the forums are. The thing about me I learned to be a very driven individual. I knew that life was short and that one day I was gonna die. When you come from areas like you and myself, you learn that quit. Whenever I saw a girl, I knew that I may never see her again. I would go and put my best foot forward. I just wanted her life for the day. I wasn't worried about making her my girlfriend, I just wanted to chill with her. I didn't care if she said yes or no because I would just find another girl. She saw in my eyes that I had pain but a deep desire to live. I would always tell girls my desire to leave the dates and go to Greece.

I also made beats and recorded rap songs, I'm actually in the process of recording another album. I played guitar, I was different from the everyday thugs she would meet. I wasn't a thug but I wasn't afraid to fight someone either. She wanted to crack the mystery of me. She loved that I had so many layers to me. She loved the fact I had a story that I was letting her read at her own pace. She was crazy about. Girls knew I wasn't looking for long term, they would come and go as they pleased. I would fuck them and do it again maybe a summer later. I would be honest with them if I felt someway about them. I wasn't afraid to speak my mind.

I don't take women on traditional dates. I remember when me and my drug dealing friend had just finished a job on the east side of our town. We saw some girls approach them and drove to the beach. I was being a gentlemen to one girl, and just flirting with her. She were later alone on the boardwalk together. "We could die today." she said. "Then I'll die happy." I said I kissed and then we sat down and I just laid her lap. I never saw her again because I went to college the following fall. However she texted me for time to time for being different. The thing is I don't take women on traditional dates. I take them on adventures to the park or invite them over my place. I'm very unorthodox.

Take care,

Just Dave

J$'s picture

Can't cops lie and just say you confessed? Even though you kept your mouth shut?

Anonymous's picture

I just read an article like this elsewhere and the author seemed pretty knowledgeable so I rehash what he said: Yes, cops may legally lie in order to get a confession out of you. The safest thing to say is just what your name is and that you will exercise your right to remain silent and will only answer questions in the presence of your lawyer.

The temptation is high to say something, anything, as your nerves will be frazzled and you just want them to understand that you had little choice in the matter. Note that I come from the angle that you are a good person and acted in self-defense. I come at this as a CCW holder and have been told to even already have a lawyer and his card in your wallet. That way, when your nerves are in high, you're just coming off your adrenaline high from just having shot someone in self-defense, and your hands are shaking that you will at least see the brightly colored card from your lawyer after the cop asks for your ID. Most lawyer cards are brightly colored for this reason.

You will be scared. You may even look happy (happy that you're the one still alive after someone just tried to take your life). These are things that may be used against you in court later. Your mind will be racing. You will be highly stressed and unlikely to be able to think coherently. The brightly colored card reminds you to call your lawyer.

The point I am trying to make through sheer repetition is you ARE WITHIN YOUR LEGAL RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT, so exercise it! This is applicable even if they arrested the wrong person, suspected you of dealing drugs, took you in custody for refusing to leave a peaceable protest, or any of a myriad of reasons for your arrest. The important thing is to be respectable and polite. Cops deal with trash all day long, and they just treat you as more potential trash unless they have reason to believe otherwise. It's nothing personal, just a security mechanism that helps keep them safe by shortcutting the process. So, by virtue of you acting professional, you throw them in for a loop and take them out of autopilot.

Moon's picture

So in the end, we should play by the rules in an aritificial hierarchy. But how should we treat people in that hierarchy that are above us so we can be seen as charismatic, reliable or... and that we can climb the hiearchy ladder? : as equal without consideration to their status or as servant(extreme case)??

David Riley's picture

Hey Moon,

There was actually I really good forum post that I will share with you about navigating hierarchies.

http://www.girlschase.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=110

Just Dave

Private Rico's picture

Hello Generals,

Another great article, great job!

I have a topic suggestion, sth which isn't specifically covered yet on the website (in general there are here and there some pieces of advice, but nothing specific). What I mean is dating older women - not old, but older from you, for ex.: you're 25 and want 30-35, you're 30 and want 35-40 etc. I happen to have a great love for women older from me 5-10 years old and the game there feels a little bit different than in the same age bracket (like 22-28 for 25 year old male etc.).

Any pieces of advice on getting good results with 'em and not being treated as too young/ a man-kid'o would be greatly appreciated.

Anyways, thanks very much for what you're doing Generals and keep on galloping.

All the best,
PR

David Riley's picture

Hey PR,

I'll let Chase and the other writer's know of your request.

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Does this mean that the women in the police force are off limits? I mean that they are still women and all but they are more strict and can arrest you for your "sudden moves," right?

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

I wouldn't say they're off limits, now if you're in "trouble" for something you did, yes I wouldn't try anything. However, if a police woman is off duty and you want to game her go for it. It's all about a time and place, now you also may want to watch what you say. If you see her in her uniform she's more than likely on the clock and won't be in the mood for "non sense". You just has to gauge her response, I haven't heard stories about anyone being arrested for hitting on a police women. Attempt to set up a date to get to know her, and go from there. If she says no, brush it off and keep moving.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

So this morning I got in the elevator and pulled out my phone to check my messages, then

"Ugh, I hate how people just pull out their cell phones to avoid awkward situations in elevators!" Quips some uppity girl who is clearly addressing me as we're the only two in the elevator.

I just look at her then look back at my phone.

:/ is she trying to get me to talk to her cause she is curious about me, or is it something else? and how do I respond to something like that to continue conversation but doesn't encourage her being rude to me.

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

Normally if these situations unless the girl is cute or I'm interested in her I just take a pass. The girl more than likely thought you were either cute or just wanted some attention. When a girl goes out of her way to try and start a conversation with you, it's because she likes you. A simple challenge response such as "Oh yeah?" or "Why do you say that?" will normally get the girl talking. From there you can change to a topic of your choosing such as "Where ya headed?" Like I mentioned before unless she's someone you truly want to be conversing with, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Take care,

Just Dave

Wolf's picture

Hey dave, what can I do as a black man to get white girls, latinas, etc? They reject me a lot more than give me play. It's more of a race thing for them because I hear them say they don't like black men and they turn down black men and get with anything that's light skin. How do you get different race girls when you're a dark skin brother dave? How do you pull different races?

Thanks

David Riley's picture

Hey Wolf,

The biggest thing you're going to face when trying seducing girls of different nationalities is gauging their open mindedness. I normally ask girls openly if they've ever dated a black guy before. Some they haven't and then ask me if I would ever date a girl of their nationality. I tell them that I judge a woman by her heart and character instead of her skin. This usually gets me a very receptive response. Some girls aren't as accepting of dating black guys so I just cut ties with them. You're going to want to save a lot of time by cutting off loose ends.

When I see a white girl around black girls or that has black friends, I can tell she's more open to dating black guys. You want to be looking to see who she hangs around with. If a girl is hanging out a certain group of guys, she normally goes for them. One of the biggest tips I can give is don't act like a stereotype. Don't use a lot of slang and speak to any girl properly. You can still be assertive and use the fundamentals of the site. The thing to keep in mind is black guys are looked as very aggressive. So you have to change your look to look less intimidating. I was short hair with a goatee and I wear medium tone colors mostly. Women can get startled by black guys fairly easily at times. It's best to come in calm and in well lit areas. Never approach from behind. Other than that same rules generally apply, here's an article on black guys and white girls from GC.

http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-black-guys-can-have-sex-white-girls

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

I suppose Law of least effort has serious flaw. It can cause extreme jealousy, whenever I used it some people were seeing me as awesome, but some as someone unrelatable and it's hard to deal with them. No matter what type of relationship we have - job (artificial hierarchies), personal (personal appeal) they express jealousy in one way or another and it's rather strong. But when I put it down, and claim that I work hard, they usually can't relate still, because they consider that those who work hard impose others to work hard too and no one can live at ease because of this problem, and well everybody wants it easy. This is ok to some extent, but it's awful to see men who are jealous of things I reach, of girls I date, of wage I get, of value I have. Seems tough nut to crack, but I suppose you can help me to crack it faster with some extremely valuable insight.

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

A lot of times when I detect people getting jealous of me, I shut it down immediately. I tell them, "It's not a big deal man, none of this stuff really matters you're an incredibly talented person yourself. A lot of these things are superfluous. Listen we're a team, and I'm not gonna let anything change that." What this does is get my friends to act like we're on a team. I tell my friends they have no reason to be jealous of me because they could have it too. I tell them they can live the life they want to live and I told hold them to my expectations. I tell them I appreciate the type of person they are. I tell I think of them when I'm doing things to make them proud. In the end, I mention I did it just for me because I'm the one who has to live with the choices I made in life. The I tell people everything doesn't have to be a competition and we can relax and enjoy the simple things in life.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

Dear Chase,

Can you put up a piece of how to be and remain dominant as one ages? I'm not talking about the kind where you put on a show or attitude of dominance, I'm talking about actually having something to back that up. Seeing as the only advantage of older men over younger men is their social dominance, I think it is quite important.

I think people in positions of political power have actual dominance over other people but climbing to the top this way has many disadvantages including being subject to public opinion, being at the mercy of your employer, and depending wholly on the system for one's dominance (left with nothing if the system collapses e.g. if you move to another country)

Thanks

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

I will let Chase and the other author's know about your request.

Take care,

Just Dave

Matt's picture

Hey Chase man :) !

I've become addicted to your website. I've taken in, admittedly, a lot of information without applying it consistently. For example I read something about say Stillness and I use it the next day and own it like I invented it, it feels like I have superpowers of sorts. But I can't tie myself to doing it all the time I feel weird about it and let the testosterone and winning mindset slip. I've experienced a lot of techniques and mindsets effects first hand and know how effective it is but I'm not satisfied with it. I grow out of it and seeing as I have discovered this new realm of life everything I do is now coloured a little differently than it was prior to enlightenment haha. It's as if I have evolved mentally into a new person. I experience extreme cognitive dissonance as I observe friends and others doing things and living in limiting mindsets. I have trouble communincating all my knowledge and often just stew in my angst and frustration slowly creating bitterness and feelings of superiority. Almost a year ago now I believe I started experiencing slight social anxiety and bouts of negative thinking and I have been trying to take responsibility for everything I do. I get stressed out bigtime trying to manage everyones emotions and all my relationships as I feel distant and detached from things often. I find it hard to tolerate people who I feel don't understand life the way I see it and I often have simple and plain thoughts that people are merely creatures of society and upbringing who will argue and defend with all their merit that life is a particular way and it just deters me completely from even trying to explain things to them. I can connect with people but it honestly doesn't feel authentic and empowering as I believe it should. I feel like I'm carrying the interaction by being a stable "Normal" person who which they can talk to and I can talk to them back giving advice and smiles, however, with bitter feelings within me. I change my attitude and behavior towards women very VERY fast. Everyday I remember things I learn on this site and I start to apply it to make myself feel better. And, it works! I can force myself to speak slower and remain outcome independent but it feels like a shallow facade which doesn't have much to it. My sexiness which I DO notice, EASILY, I can smell a females interest! It feels good but i never remain the same masculine confident man. I lapse to insecure feelings and doubt. I feel people find my apparent byronic traits make me mysterious and interesting as I make my self out to be a lone wolf at my school somewhat. I walk past people with unshakable confidence and as if I've experienced the world and back just with the way I strut past them but I also have whispers in my head that these are delusions. Example, people see me as arrogant and careless, trying to be cool. But I honestly, authentically and genuinely FEEL "cool" and non chalant, but it's just so overpowering to the people around me and I feel that I cant handle their curiosity about me. So, i tone it down and supress my self. I find it hard to not get bitter at people and I usually trick my self into a giddy mood where I reject a lot of feelings and just imagine I'm happy as larry. But it fades and it tends to come off as over the top to people. I'm also constantly anxious and conscious of how I'm coming across to everyone that I get scared of talking to everyone.

Is there something wrong with my overall mindset? Or am I missing something?

I feel I just need someone to follow or a mentor who can show me the way because everyone seems so different to me. I feel ashamed because of this and it does hurt me at a deep biological level i feel emotion swell up within me all the time at how abstract and dissorientated my life is currently.

Please, any advice or understanding that you can help me with is very muchly appreciated mate, I'm not bordering depression. Maybe I am, I just feel too superior to everything and confused.

Sincerely a found but lost 17 year old from the land of Australia.

P.S. Hahaha sorry if I sound like I'm in a victim mentality or if I seem to negative.

David Riley's picture

Hey Matt,

Chase has me helping out on the comments. One of the things I want to bring to your attention if you're seeking a mentor or perhaps seeking people who think like you, try out forums. Forum Link You'd be surprised how many younger guys feel like you once they start developing their social skills. IT's a hard balancing act to not resent people because they can't relate to you. You're always seeking someone who can go deep just like you can. The benefit though is it does benefit you as you get older being able to see the big picture. Since you're still young I wouldn't worry too much about people.

A lot of things we tend to worry about when were young, we don't give a second thought to when we're older. A lot of times we just can't relate and connect with certain people. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with us, it just means we're not compatible. You're not gonna vibe with everyone and everyone isn't going to vibe with you, The goal is to find people that have the same interest as you. However, you don't want to put off people who don't have your interests. One of the biggest things about life is learning to become open minded. This way you can relate to anyone on any level. It takes a lot of time and patience, but it's one of the most beneficial mindsets you can have.

Take care,

Just Dave

anonim's picture

Guys help!

Cut the long story short - im not a one night stand kind of a guy but i hooked up with a girl lately who only wanted sex and was clear about her intentons. I went for it because she was f... super cute and I thought why not. But I screwed it up!!! We had sex 3 times on one day but i sensed as the day progresses i started getting nervous and hesitant and realized i want her so much i cant forget her.
She doesnt want anything now and i want to kill myself. Seriously. Please dont write to me about options... im very fussy i cant help it and it happens only once a year that i get interested in a grl like that. I cant eat and sleep and my life lost sense. I want this life to finish! I cant force myself to like or being turned on by anybody else. I vomit and experience severe anxiety and i cant take it anymore..

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

Please don't do anything rash and please take a step back to fully evaluate the situation. Just because you did not land that "one" girl doesn't not mean you should end it all. There is more to life than just girls and you shouldn't just throw your life away because of one bad experience. I'm not sure how old you are, but you have your whole life to meet other girls. Do not be so consumed by this one girl in particular that you want to end it all. That is not the way to do things. You can't just give up on life just because someone didn't reciprocate your feelings.

Please read this article from Chase, you will find it very helpful and spot on.

Can't stop thinking about her

We are here for you and I don't want you to end your life because this one bad situation. Take a step back and realize this is not the work thing to happen to you in life. Be happy that you met an awesome girl and had sex with her. A lot of guys aren't that fortunate. You have the ability to attract women. Take a look at what went wrong and learn from it. Don't beat yourself up over it.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

chase you are a genius! Dude its like the blue pill in the matrix. I know what your talking about you and the level you articulated it was superb. Right now i feel like im on the path to... I dont know what. But i ve been trying to read a book a day. Which is unbelievably hard with my schedule, so its like a book a week. Haha. Cultivating a endurance athlete workout and mediating. As well as reaching out and meeting as many different people as i can. Your blogs great! Keep it up maan! Also what books did you reference or read before writing this post....thanks. Peace

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

I'm helping Chase out with the comments these days. While I'm not entirely sure what Chase read prior to writing this piece, I can give you a list of books Chase has recommend to read.

Reading List

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

I really like this one. Had me rethink important situations of my life and see them in a new way. I love your positive attitude. There are quite a few sources of valuable information on the webs, but the constant combination of light heart and sharp thoughts makes me come back here.
Just had a funny idea that maybe in 50 years this site may be looked back upon as a source of established philosophy, that is cited by academics. I certainly would. :-)

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