Are There No Second Chances with Women?
A reader writes in, asking the following questions:
I’ve read several of your articles, and I can relate to quite a bit of what you say. However, it seems to me that in your scenarios, the guy is always the one who is at fault. It’s as though the girl is fully functional, prepared to choose who she is interested in and whether or not the guy fits in to one of her categories, I guess robotic in a way. What I’m trying to get at mainly is the no second chance with women idea. Like if you don’t move fast enough she is gone for good. Is it really the case that the guy has to do everything right or else he is out? This perplexes me as we live in a society where equal opportunity for race, genders, and sexuality is at the forefront. In the corporate world and in the military, women are continually given more and more power/leadership/etc. They are no longer viewed as the traditional queen role from what I see. In this respect, why must the guy solely be the one to make things happen fast, take her as his lover before she flees to the next guy, and so on.
Perhaps I have read your writings incorrectly, but your advice (though as I said much of it rings true with me) seems to put the vast majority of the burden on the guy’s shoulders.
Also, let’s say that I screwed it up with a chick. I took her as my lover, but then later decided she was no longer interested. Walked away, realized I made a mistake. Apologized a couple weeks later, she says she has moved on to someone else. Your principles seem to be true here at first, but when she blames me for the fallout, then comes to the bar that night and makes out with me, only to run off and go kiss on some guy’s cheek, and give all sorts of mixed signals thereafter, things get hazy. No second chances, but I’ll make out with you? It just doesn’t click with me that anyone has all of this figured out. Life isn’t black and white, I don’t think.
I would appreciate your reply!””
So, there are a lot of interesting questions and themes in here worth addressing:
- Are there no second chances with women?
- Is it all on the man to make things happen?
- What about equality?
- Why do women send mixed signals?
- Why do women flirt if they don’t want you?
I’m not really going to talk about the other bullets here – I
addressed the “do/should guys REALLY have to do EVERYTHING?” question
here a few weeks ago: “What Role Should Women Play in the Mating
Game?” I’ll throw a quick bone to that one though because I
have a couple more things to say on it you should find interesting. The
third bullet is addressed in that post, and the fourth and fifth in
these two: “Mixed Signals from a Girl: What These Mean”
and “The Paradox of the Flirty Girl.”
Let’s talk about second chances though, because that’s one it seems like a lot of guys want to know about, and it’s worth discussing for sure.
In the West? Market Forces are Against You
First, a brief nod to sexual market value: just like smart phones and automobiles and recliners and raisins, your value to a member of the opposite sex is subject to market conditions, and you are essentially commoditized (despite the fact that every advertiser out there bombards you all day long with messages about how special and unique you are).
If you need a clear example of this, imagine moving to a big oil drilling boomtown where single men outnumber single women 50 to 1. You live there and work there for a couple of years, before finally deciding to go get your college degree.
Then you move to a university town where single women make up 70% of the population.
Would you expect to encounter any differences toward you in the behaviors of the women from town to town?
As we talked about in that sexual market value article (”Your Sexual Market Value: Who’s Afraid of
Desperate Men?”), it’s quite clear that real world
behaviors of both men and women DO change, and quite radically, in
these different situations. When men outnumber women dramatically,
women become extremely choosy, very non-flirty, and rather conservative
(although also more likely to cheat).
Courtship is frequently a far longer process. If a guy screws up, well,
there’re another 49 guys in line waiting to take his place.
Conversely, when women outnumber men, women become much more flirty, forward, aggressive, sexually willing / compliant, and faithful. Sex happens fast, because a girl knows if she doesn’t put out, there’s a line of other women up behind her waiting to do so instead and she’ll lose her shot at this guy.
Further, if you change from somewhere like the United States, where single men outnumber single women by 15% or more in nearly every major city in the country between ages 18 and 39 (often closer to 20% to 40% in the really big towns – check out this map if you exact data), and where men hound women in droves while drunk at bars or stalking their social media profiles, and pick up and go somewhere like Japan, where single men remove themselves from the dating market en masse to go become shut-ins, and the single men who are still out there are often so painfully shy that the women do more of the approaching, the change becomes even more noticeable.
Fact is, if you’re living in the West, chances are you are somewhere where you and your similarly aged male cohort outnumbers the available females by a healthy chunk.
Your competition is also aggressive enough that women don’t have to take action much, really, to find a guy who’s at least okay.
And while YOU may be convinced that you are of course such an
amazing find that women should just flock to you in lust and
admiration, the fact is that to
everyone else OUTSIDE of your head, you’re just another guy with
whatever small things you’ve done to differentiate yourself (and
most people really do not differentiate themselves much at all...
wearing Polo instead of Express or Oakleys instead of Aviators only
makes you as unique as the hundreds of thousands of other people
wearing these things, and even if you have a great personality, unless
and until you and I are intimately acquainted I probably won’t be able
It seems like a fair number of guys hit this site for the first time and experience cognitive dissonance: do I really have to do ALL this stuff to stand out and get women?
And the answer is no, of course not; you could do nothing at all and you will still probably happen into a relationship sooner or later, and probably with a very okay girl. However, if you want women competing for you, and chasing you, and if you want your pick of the litter, woman-wise, then you need to do a fair amount of it, yes.
Because following the herd and just doing what the masses do does not make you stand out enough in a buyer’s market when you are the one with something to sell.
Perhaps if you lived in Japan, but not in the West.
And this brings us to second chances: again, these depend on the market you’re in, and your individual value within that market.
So You Want Another Shot...
In case you haven’t read these articles, let’s bring your understanding of attraction dynamics up to speed:
- Attraction has an expiration date
- Women cut little slack (usually) if you miss escalation
- If you want to get girls, you need to move faster
- If you’re hung up on one special girl, you’re better
off moving on
Sometimes, you WILL get a second chance.
It happens. Especially with women you know through social circle, or women you didn’t screw up too bad with.
And it can even happen a LOT with women where the reason things
didn’t happen were clearly outside of both of your control. When that’s
the case, you can almost get girls hounding you more for a second
chance (if they were into you) than anytime else.
And occasionally you will even get more than one extra chance with a girl you’d messed up or not closed the deal with multiple times already.
There are two problems with counting on this, though:
- Usually, you’re not going to get one
- If you DO get one, I almost
guarantee you will screw up again
I’ve seen plenty of guys turn around their second chances. I’ve done it myself, too. But usually, if you couldn’t seal the deal on Chance #1, you won’t be able to seal it on Chances #s 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6, either.
What are the chances you make it happen on your second chance? From my experience, it’s somewhere between 5% and 8%. That’s if we’re including all second chances at taking her number, fixing up a date, getting her back to your place, sleeping with her the first time, sleeping with her a second time, etc. Even if the girl is giving you a HUGE open window to get with her – it’s still this low.
Fact is, missing your first chance with her is seldom a random screw up outside your control.
The great majority of the time, it speaks to a structural, underlying flaw with your game.
Sometimes it’s possible to hunker down and figure out exactly what
you did wrong the first time around and do it better the second. Back
when I used to do phone coaching, I used to get cases where a guy
needed a quick fix because he botched things with a girl before and now
he was gearing up to take another shot with her and needed to know what
to do differently. Cody still gets a lot of calls like this for our phone coaching program today.
And sometimes it works out.
Yet, even with an exact play-by-play of what to do, much of the time
a guy’s still going to come up short anyway because he isn’t ready yet
to make things happen with a given girl.
Thus, my general sentiment on second chances is this: if you’re worried about these, you’re thinking about the WRONG thing.
Ever call a company you’re interested in working for and ask them if they give second chances if you don’t interview well the first time?
Or, when you were trying to decide what university to attend, spend much time considering whether they’d give you another shot for that school year if they rejected your first application?
(In fact, you WILL encounter cases here and there of people talking their way into second chances at these places, and with women, too – it’s certainly doable. But usually you need to know exactly where you screwed up and exactly what you need and want to change, and usually if this is the case you won’t be worried about whether you WILL get a second chance – you’ll just go and get it because you feel like you should get it and you deserve it and the first time you messed up was an aberration)
Any situation where you are the seller (and life as a male is all about selling yourself – to prospective women you’d like to go to bed with or date, to schools you’d like to attend, to companies you’d like to work for, to people you’d like to have give you stuff, etc.), this is the case.
Of course, IF you are using the material on this site, you can sometimes position yourself as the buyer and the girl as the seller in an interaction – that’s the objective, really (or at least the one I set out to do and teach).
Usually when you’re just starting out though, you will be in the seller position, which means second chances will be uncommon, and if you mess it up the first time, a second chance usually isn’t going to do you a whole heck of a lot of good anyway.
Better Option: Be the Buyer
What if, instead of hoping for second chances from women, THEY could only hope for second chances from YOU?
This is one of the things that happens when you’re following to the letter what I’m teaching on GC. You can look at the top guys on the discussion boards and how frequently they have women chasing them, begging them for another chance, acting awkward because they realized they’d screwed up and now maybe they’re going to lose their shot with him, etc.
Women are not used to being in this position, and it’s a lot of fun for you when they are (it’s also very exciting / memorable for them, too).
Here’s an example. Let’s say you’ve already made yourself a pretty attractive guy in your home country, and you’re already pretty good with girls. Then you travel abroad to some other country. Now you get the novelty factor kicking in to make you much rarer, more unique, more memorable, and even more attractive.
What are the odds that you get a second chance if you mess up here? Immense. That’s because it’s usually going to be the girl kicking and blaming herself if she loses you, rather than you doing it.
Same thing can happen for you at home too, if you make yourself sufficiently desirable to women. Once you DE-commoditize yourself – that is, instead of thinking to yourself, “I am unique and special!” you actually make yourself (relatively) unique and special to women, in a way they find very attractive and alluring, you will find women trying to get second chances with you fairly often.
That’s because, even in a buyer’s market, the fact is that YOU are not one of those regular single men flooding the market. YOU are a lover, and lovers, while still commoditized, are far rarer commodities than average men.
In this case, the market flips: once she is sufficiently convinced that you are a rare, sexy lover of a man, you will very frequently become the buyer, and she the seller.
She will begin competing to demonstrate why you should give her the experiences she knows that you give to women.
And if it doesn’t happen, she’ll kick herself for messing it up and missing out on it. I have seen a LOT of frustrated women who messed up on sleeping with a lover... they get as angry as an average guy does when he misses out on sleeping with a girl HE likes.
If you’ve never had a girl:
- Offer on her own to buy you food to make up for flaking or messing up
- Bombard you with calls or texts to see you again after you flaked on her
- Insist on seeing you even though you’ve told her you should part
- Offer threesomes or other sexual rewards if you’ll get back with her again
- Whine and pout and complain because you won’t give her another
... then you might not realize this happens.
But yeah, it does: women chase.
And when they chase, they chase as hard as the most obsessed men out there.
That’s because they aren’t used to chasing, and they don’t know how to be smooth about it like most guys become accustomed to at least trying to do (well, except the guys who comment on girls’ Facebook photos).
To engage this chasing though, you must first turn yourself into a man who doesn’t just FEEL different from all the men around him to HIMSELF... but actually SEEMS different – and like a rare and desired commodity – to the women that he meets.
And if you want to do that, that’s what this entire site is all about.
Give Me One More Chance
In the song “One More Chance” – the same song by the Notorious B.I.G. the line “I don’t chase ‘em, I replace ‘em” comes from – the hook entails a chorus of women singing
Give me one more chance!
When I first listened to this as a teenager, it seemed incredible and far off that women could be THAT into you that they would be begging you for another chance.
And while they rarely lose their senses so thoroughly that they will actually say “Give me one more chance”, they will communicate as much with their actions – conciliatory, concessionary, and apologetic... and willing to do whatever you want them to do, just about, to see you again.
And this is true for women you sleep with and do a great job with, but it’s also true for women you get out on dates, make a strong impression on, and then they resist you or break off the date before you can close things off, too... IF you have made yourself into an exceptionally desirable, sexy man.
So, yes – sometimes women will give you another chance.
Usually, of course, if you messed up the first time, and she’s the one granting you another chance, odds are the next encounter will only fare about as well as the first, since that’s where you’re at with girls right now and you’re not going to improve overnight.
But I would recommend that, rather than trying to get women to give you another chance, you focus on developing yourself to the point where women are working to get second chances from you...
... which also leads to women out with you on dates becoming very aware that if they mess up with you, they most likely will not see you again.
Which understandably makes those dates somewhat easier.
A woman can smell the difference between a regular guy who will chase her down and still be available to her if she postpones deciding on him, vs. a rarer, scarcer man with options out the wazoo who will probably be off the table or much less accessible if she blows it with him now.
Wouldn’t it be a lot more fun if, rather than worry about whether women will permit you a second chance, you instead focused on elevating yourself to possess such attractiveness and such a rarefied air that women hoped for second chances from you... or did their very bests to avoid ending up in a situation where they’re at the mercy of receiving or not receiving a second chance?
It’s doable. I’ve done it, the other writers here have done it, a number of guys on the discussion boards have done it or are doing it right now.
Will you wait for her to give you another shot, or focus on becoming a man she wants one from herself, instead?
The choice is yours... as for me, I’ve never very much liked waiting.
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