The Art of Learning to Pick Up and Sleep with Girls


Happy New Year!

I am sure many of you have set goals to become better with women and seduction in 2014.

Therefore, I’ve chosen to put together an article about the learning process. In this post, I’d like to share my personal experience learning seduction - and I’ll also share lots of tips and advice that ought to help you learn faster.

learning pickup

The purpose of this post is to make progress easier for you and give you some guidance along the way. I also hope this piece motivates you to keep learning about seduction!

First question:


Was It Worth It?

A question many beginners ask is whether it is worth it or not to spend lots of time (because let’s face it, it does take a few years to become good at this) learning all this stuff.

The answer is YES; it is worth it (in my opinion). Here is why:

Learning pick up and seduction is theoretically complex and practically difficult. It’s theoretically complex because it demands knowledge in fields including psychology, sexology, evolutionary biology, sociology, and more.

Seduction and pick up are cross-disciplinary fields. Yet a lot of the knowledge you will learn in pick up and seduction will not only be useful when you are talking to women, but also in your everyday life in many other fields.

Learning game also makes you smarter, because it makes you reflect theoretically around SERIOUS questions and issues. This is not just a stupid hobby with a weird philosophy. The topics covered in this area of study are topics biologists, psychologists and sociologists are concerned about. There are often lots of research concerning the topics we discuss taking place in multiple institutions.

But we are not only in this for a theoretical purpose. We are in this for a practical purpose. A sociologist might (but not necessarily) give us an answer for why women have been conditioned in such-and-such a way; yet, we have practical experience with real world instances of this. We can see things on so many levels.

We gain knowledge on a question that concerns a majority of human beings – “How do I seduce other people?” People are addicted to this question. Men work their asses off to get money in order to impress women (and surpass other men), and women spend truckloads of time on their looks in order to win over men (and outcompete other women).

The topic of seduction concerns us a lot – psychologically speaking.

Further, let us not forget the importance of SEX in our lives. One of our most crucial needs is sex. It is actually one of the most important of them.

Spending time and learning seduction is absolutely worth it. It is important to satisfy, or at least learn how to satisfy, such an important human need as the one that sex presents.

But beside all this, let me tell you that this topic is REALLY interesting, and that going out, meeting women and learning is a lot of fun. Without bragging, I will consider myself good with women. Yet, often when I head out to “the field” I miss the good old days where I was still learning. I can tell you that many other experienced seducers feel the same. The learning process itself was really exciting.

It is simply exciting to experience new things, and start seeing the bigger picture.


Is Learning Pick Up and Seduction Hard?

Yes it is. If anyone tells you otherwise, they are either fakes or were simply naturally good with women before starting out. I know many dating coaches who were naturals or semi-naturals before starting with pick up.


Theoretical Difficulties

The main reason why learning seduction is hard is because it is theoretically complex. As a matter of fact, within the circle of top seducers, there are a number of theoretical disagreements – and trust me, both sides have good points.

learning pickup

Like any other sciences there are a lot of different theories, with some of them being rather complex. Keep in mind that I know many seducers, and many of them are VERY smart people. I know a few seducers who have PhDs from top schools (one of them is actually quite famous); some are lawyers, some philosophers, some are doctors… some are just simply very smart.

So keep in mind that when these people discuss a topic, it will become rather complicated. Sometimes they also overcomplicate things, but in my opinion, the amounts of recent discoveries within the art of seduction are huge. The results of our little “underground” research regime have given us great results.


Personal Differences

But beside all this, pick up and seduction is hard for more practical reasons. The first one being that pick up is very personal. For instance, your personality is directly related to its practice.

Your personality plays a crucial role when you are out there picking up women. This means that something that might work for me, might not work for you, and vice versa. This makes it difficult for many men to figure out “what really works” (or “what works for me”).

To this I have only one answer. Try out everything you know off, and experiment with different things. After a while, you will get a clearer grasp on what works for you and what doesn’t.

It’s here very important that you do not get stuck within one method or one school of thought unless you are experienced and have gotten lots of results from doing so.

I often head around different forums, just to come across posters who are dogmatic in their views, who are so confident that so-and-so way of doing things is the right one, while it is clear to me that these people never have gotten any results.

Be open-minded; try different things. What works is what is giving you results. The rest... consider it just as an interesting read.

When I started out, I started with one particular method – namely, “Mystery Method”. This is a well-known method to many of you and many of the principles within this method are very good. There is a lot of gold within this method. Sadly, I was young, and too highly energetic, and girls at my age didn’t give a damn about what the “Mystery Method” was trying to convey. I wasn’t getting laid at all; in fact, I didn’t get a single lay that year.

Then one day I read the Player’s Guide (an old school, outdated, yet good guide which I don’t believe is out there anymore), where I saw a method called “GM Style” (Grandmaster Style). Quickly explained, GM Style is about mixing humour with sexual intent – i.e., making stupid sex jokes like, “Hey wanna sit down on my lap and talk about the first thing that pops up” (hint – my dick). That night, I got a blowjob from a girl in the bathroom, which sadly was interrupted because her boyfriend showed up.

After that, I set to work at once changing my whole plan, even if I had been reading and practicing Mystery Method for the better part of a year. It really sucks changing plans, especially when you’ve invested time in doing one thing in particular. But if that thing isn’t giving you the desired results, then the benefits from sticking with it are low – let’s face reality.

Since then, I have been open minded, and tried many different things, and, after a few years into this approach, I had the knowledge and experience to at last develop my own style.


Your Ego

Another difficulty that arises when learning pick up is the ego. You will have to push and challenge yourself a lot, and that can be detrimental to your ego (in other words, you may and probably will end up feeling like crap from your failures).

That is what makes it difficult. And yes, you will face a lot of failure. But the good news is that the brain remembers success stories more easily than failures. This means that if you fail on 10 women, but manage to sleep with one, your brain will easily remember that one success story, while the failures get glossed over and forgotten quite quickly. That is rather good news, if you ask me.

After a while, you will have more success stories, and the brain will remember those. This will increase you core confidence and you will just grow stronger.

It is important to just hold on in the beginning… and accept the fact that you are a beginner (if you are one) and that failure is part of the process. Accept it, and accept the fact that you are currently practicing, which is the truth, as this will make everything easier for you, yourself and your ego.

Here is the thing: learning pick up does not follow a straight learning curve. In fact it is not like football where you see more and more results everyday.

More to the point, you can practice like mad for 6 month without seeing the results. However, once you get results, you have solved the mystery, and the next results will come shortly after.

For example, in my case, I was just not getting laid at all during my first year. Then one day I managed to get laid. Do you think it took me another year to get laid again? No it didn’t; in fact, it only took me 2 months.

Once you break the code, you break the code. It is as simple as that. However, breaking the code entails that you might not get any single results until you’ve figured out what works and why it does so.

So if you are not getting your desired results so far, do not give up, you simply haven’t broken the code yet. Once you do so, you will get a lot of results.

Do note that this rule does not apply if you’ve getting laid just out of pure luck – i.e., you happen to be next to a girl who was just really horny, and the logistics were perfectly set up and all you had to do was be there.

If that is the case, you haven’t broken the code just yet. However, such events will boost your confidence, which again will increase your chances of succeeding.


Why Is “Field Experience” So Important?

Now let’s talk about experience and why it’s so important. It is important because theory alone cannot get you laid. The reason being that theories only describe how things work within a hypothetical situation.

If you head out, you will see that every girl and every situation are different. Theories are just mere generalizations of how things are. I am not saying reading stuff is a waste of time; on the contrary, it helps you understand your real life interactions with women better (and let’s face it, reading material is fun and exciting too).

Reading stuff can also inspire you to find solutions to your in-field situations, and can also help you out if you are stuck. It also has a factor of motivation that should not be left out.

However, experience teaches you how to handle different situations, and the more experience you have, the more different difficult situations you will be able to handle.

learning pickup

Additionally, seduction becomes a practical topic when practiced in field. If it’s results you are after, then you need to head out and practice; it’s one thing to understand how something works, but making it work requires practical training. You cannot learn to play basketball simply by watching or reading about it (even though, like pick up and seduction, doing so will help you out)... in order to learn how to play basketball (or seduction), you must practice.

On a last note, practice is important, because a theory cannot by any means cover every small detail of a particular in-field situation, or explain every possible use of a technique. When you’re reading about pick up and seduction, there will always be elements, small subtle elements, that will not be covered. You will manage to get a grasp on these elements by going out and practicing and seeing them for yourself. For example, it is hard to cover stuff about body language in a written post, or our tonality, our delivery etc.… To learn these, you must go out, try them, tweak them and run off the feedback you get in field.


Here Is a Short “How to Learn Seduction” Guide:

  1. Read some basics; in fact, focus only on the basics if you are a beginner (things like opening, basic verbal techniques and escalation).

  2. Practice those till you master them (it can take a year or two) before doing more fancy and advanced stuff (on another note, I know many seducers who are really good, who still only use basics).

  3. When you are out, try to always think of what you did right and what you did wrong. If you did something wrong, try to figure out why that was the case and read some posts about those issues. Then create a solution and apply it to the field until you manage to handle that sticking point.

  4. If you are beginner, try to post detailed field reports in our field report section. Write what happened, why things that happened actually happened, what you did in field, and why you did that exact thing – be detailed. This way you can get really good feedback and you will be able to learn a lot.

  5. Read field and lay reports by experienced seducers. There is a lot to learn in there.

  6. You are lucky to have the Girls Chase team with you. Chase is a very experienced seducer and his team has been hand picked by him. Everything here might not suit your personality; however, you can be sure that everything you will be reading here has been field tested a lot. Try out the advice you read here in-field and report back to the one writing the article either in the comment section or by sending an email or posting on the forum. We love helping out people who actually are out there and trying out this stuff.


Last Words

Do not give up, because learning how to get laid and have a happy love and sex life is important to you. Learning how to fix this area of your life is crucial.

It is also very exciting to learn about this subject, especially once you start getting results.

Be open-minded, because there are a lot of smart guys in this community – plenty of good insights you can benefit from.

Always field-test what you read. For all you know, you might have found your personal magic bullet (i.e., it might let you break the code).

It takes time to learn all this. It took me 2,5 year with intense training (going out 3 times a week) and meeting lots of girls to get good. Was it worth it?

Yes; it was the best investment of my life.

I have been into pick up and seduction for nearly 6 years now. I am still not bored of it!

So do not give up, and have fun! Because that is what pick up and seduction is.

Until next,

-Alek

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Thanks


Thanks for the article, very encouraging. I'm still a work in process and I would like to know how do you keep from becoming attached when dating numerous girls especially what is known as an hb 7 or up.

Also, what do you think of the Ross Jeffries method?

Alek Rolstad's picture

Hi. Thanks for the kudos.

Author

Hi. Thanks for the kudos. Keep working on it and the results would come.

To your question (which is a very good one).

First of all there is nothing wrong with being attached to a girl (and maybe get monogamous, if you really like those types of relationships) if you really like her. However, if you are in a position where you are not good with girls (i.e. not able to easily move on, meet new girls) then chances are that you will end feeling like jackaass and become a needy man with one-itis becomes rather big.

What is usually adviced is to become good with women, become able to get laid often with girls you enjoy being with before settling down with a girl. You need to be able to get laid consistently, and getting laid becomes not such a big deal for you. You also need to be able to understand and see the bigger picture of how things works.

This way you will be able to finally get the girl you like and your "love" for her is not based on your neediness for sex, or intimidity, but actually pure attraction. New guys often seek a partner because they feel they "need" her. This is a horrible frame, and not the one of an attractive man.

Once you want her because you believe she can make your life cooler and better, then you are in a position to actually settle down.

If you are not there, you might get her to become your girlfriend, but unfortunatly, chances are that this relationship will be detrimental for you as she will threat you like shit, as she will have no respect for you (how can she respect a man dependent of her?). She will also use you as a provider and not a lover. In other words, you will enter into a relatipnship on the wrong premisses.

Become good with women first, is my advice. (this is also the rationale for why I dislike giving advices to men concerning one particular girl they "like").

To your question:

The ways and the things you can do so you don't get attached are many. Here is a short list:

1) Meet MANY women. Once you meet (and even better: fuck) many women, the chances that you become attached are much smaller

2) do not get to know them too well. I.e. it is okey to have fuckbuddies, but the line between casual encounters and relationships is very small. Do not meet her up more than every week (even better, once every 10 days), do not do "dating stuff" like going to the movie or eating dinners with her... do not call her more than 1-2 times a week, do not create deep rapport.

Note: i go to the movies and eat with my fuckbuddies. This is okey to do once you become experienced beause you will have much more control over the situations. If you are a beginner or struggle with the following, follow my advice to the letter.

3) self-control... obviously.

Hope this answered your questions.

-Alek

Marty's picture

Thanks for being relatable


Hey Alek,

Thanks for a marvelous and inspirational article.

Your emphasis on field experience and practical work speaks to my instincts, but what was an eye-opener for me was the way you stress the basics (point #2 in your how-to) and the fact that some very successful seducers only use those. I am glad to have been reminded of this important point.

In terms of field reports I have been posting fairly regularly and detailing my "best" interactions (if you can call them that for a beginner), but I think you have issued a timely reminder that any interaction with interesting questions attached, even a total screw-up, can benefit from being put under the unforgiving microscope of expert scrutiny. This has inspired me to type up a greater proportion of my approaches, even if it is time-consuming.

Most of all, I appreciate your relatability. Right at the start you mention that it takes a few years to become good. Then you say that it takes a year or so to get the basics properly grounded, and at the end you explain that it took you 2½ years to go through the whole process. Reading all this caused me to breathe an enormous sigh of relief, because I've been at it 8 months and while I thoroughly enjoy the learning process, exactly as you say, I still feel I have such a very, very long way to go. The reassurance you have given me and others in my position is priceless.

-Marty

Alek Rolstad's picture

Marty

Author

Glad you liked the post!

The thing with "basics" is that basics is what you need to get laid consistently. Many men have this as their goal... and I don't blame them... why over-complicate things?

From what i read here, the majority of what you will read here (and even more on other sites...) is basics (and you can never read too much or practice too much basics). Chase occasionally have some advanced stuff, but lately he is writing more theory posts and isn't focused too much on advanced outer game (his theoretical posts are awesome). For practical advanced stuff, myself and Drexel have shares some posts (like my post on sexual framing, my posts on sex stories, threesomes or drexel's posts on sex game, NLP and threesomes).

Basics is what you need to get laid. However advanced stuff helps you getting laid faster, wilder lays (like being able to make a girl go crazy on you, like asking to receive anal beads in her bum - kinky stuff) or maybe create a deeper form of relationship (maybe "rapport" is a better word?) where you know her sexually in and out? or maybe you want a threesome?

Some situations are more difficult than others, as some might require more "advanced game". However the "pro" seducer who uses basics would say "Fuck that, i move on" which is a VERY smart thing to do, while the "pro advanced seducers", enjoys the thrill of the hunt and goes for it, in order to brag in the next field report :D

BUT you will never become a good seducer unless you learn, and become ok with moving on when you fuck up, or meet a girl who is a bad lead. This is some crucial basics stuff. You can never get laid with you fancy "super NLP conversation" if you don't know how to escalate! (which again is part of the basics).

so in order to go for the advanced stuff, you need to handle the basics. However I still recommend you to read the advanced posts out of pure intellectual pleasure, or for motivational purpose. It also never hurts trying advanced stuff, but do not expect godo results if you don't have the basics in cheque... but keep in mind: "field experimenting is NEVER the wrong to do".

When it comes to field reports, let us agree that it does feel good writing a lay report and getting kudos from our co-members on the forum. We enjoy feeling successful and writing a lay report makes you feel awesome. However writing about fuck ups will actually help you out much more! The reason is because your sticking points will be pointed out and maybe someone have a solution (also keep in mind that you can always send a message to us and ask one of the writers to write about a particulat sticking point - we have nothing against suggestions)

To your last point: I see so many men giving up because they expect to become true ladies men after reading a blog or an ebook for less than year. They become bitter and angry and they often give up.

A football player never becomes good with only one year of practice. It takes time to become good and even mroe time to become a "pro".

Look, I have been into this for 6 years now with intense practice. My first 8 mounth are very much like yours (and from what I read from your comments around the blog, you seem to do better than I did...). In the beginning you will feel frustrated. It is totally natural. you will also have periods where no pussy will reach your cock... that is natural too. Like a football player, you will not score much during the first year.

I can tell you this: Chase has a very similare background. If you ever believe that chase has always been a ladies man ,then you are totally wrong (chase and I actually started during the same period, we've hanged on the old mASF together). He was, like every one else: a frustrated, horny and struggling man in the beginning, especially during his first years. The first year is actually the hardest one to get through mentally as you can easily lost motivation. Once you reach the third year, it will all become SO MUCH MORE pleasurable.

I promise!

Keep up the good work!

-Alek

Franklin's picture

NLP and Escalation


I agree 100% when you said that you can know all the fancy advanced NLP stuff and if you don't know how to escalate you wont get laid.. lol This was and sometimes still is me.. I used to study a lot of Ross Jeffries and got good at nlp patterning but what is the point of that if you don't even feel comfortable touching girls or kissing them? Needless to say I got nowhere. In his program he doesn't even teach you how to physically escalate. I guess he figures it will all come natural to you or something. Anyway, good comment im practicing my escalation tactics now.

blogster's picture

Crucial question - defining success


Perhaps most crucial is if you could define what success looks like, as you say:

"Do note that this rule does not apply if you’ve getting laid just out of pure luck – i.e., you happen to be next to a girl who was just really horny, and the logistics were perfectly set up and all you had to do was be there. "

So by what metrics/outcomes do you consider whether or not you are successful/good at pickup? (aside from getting the girl?) if it is not actually getting the girl? How can you tell you are getting the girl because you are 'good' at pickup, as opposed to getting a lucky break? This would be really useful.

Alek Rolstad's picture

blogster

Author

Good question.

It is hard to tell indeed. In fact so hard that you will only be getting a vague answer.

You know you've gotten success with women from your skills (rather than luck) when you have repeated success. I.e. will you be able to pull it off again? (not necessarily by getting laid, but can you say that you are doing much better with women the next time you head out? and the next time after that and after that again? (can you sense that you've broken the "code"). If you are back to where before you've gotten that lay that made you feel like you've broken the code, then you can't really claim that you've seen the light!

Also, try to analyze the situation, the night where you've you've gotten laid. Did she approach you? where the logistics set up in a way that getting laid was an obious outcome? was she very sexually direct with you? all these questions can give you an idea of wheter or not the lay was based on pure luck or not.

-Alek

blogster's picture

Also second question


A second question came to mind. Most women have no idea the effort required by men learning how to get good with women. If you're heavily introverted, have social anxiety etc. it's double the effort again. If they were to see the extent of blogs such as girlchase and the time, thoughts and effort men dedicate, they'd be blown away.

Purely because we are required to pursue, we have to learn and develop beyond that of the women we are pursuing.

Being the pursued gives them tremendous power. Power is best defined as having the ability to impact your environment with minimal effort and in the dating dynamic this is so true. Let's face it, this blog wouldn't exist otherwise. If the dating dynamic was reversed, these blogs would be targeted to women.

What I see is that men have to learn leadership, initiative and attraction/seduction skills, but THEN also filtering out/relationship management issues etc. Conversely, women get to focus primarily on filtering/sifting through and managing their options.

And let's face it, relationships ARE women's natural environment. It's their field of expertise.

I admit I get frustrated realising this somewhat. After several years of consistent effort, learning, 100s of rejections etc. I will get very good at something (within my limitations of course) and get attractive girls. I will get good at triggering emotional responses in women which they don't understand the underlying mechanisms of and lead them to become attracted.

Point being I put in all this effort into making it happen, she considerably less, but we both get the same good outcome.

Is it me or is it all lopsided?

Alek Rolstad's picture

blogster

Author

To your other questions:

You are making many (good) points in this comment.I would like to break it down and give some analyzes and some inputs. I am open to debate this furhter. I disagree with some of your points and I will try to share my opinions on the different aspects.Hopefully we can both learn something from this exchange.

"A second question came to mind. Most women have no idea the effort required by men learning how to get good with women. If you're heavily introverted, have social anxiety etc. it's double the effort again. If they were to see the extent of blogs such as girlchase and the time, thoughts and effort men dedicate, they'd be blown away."

Most men are, as you say putting in a lot of effort when it comes to get laid, because getting laid is a crucial human need. However, contrary to your view, I believe women put in as much, or even more efforts than man do.

Ever taken a hot girl home from a blog and taking a shower with her and see how different her face suddently looks? how much time women spend in order to look beautiful in order to attract you? Women owns 10-100 pairs of shoes, where each pair matches with one outfit. All this to become attracted!

Haircuts are somuch more expensive for women. Also keep in mind that women also color their hair very often. This is expensive business! For more expensive than most men believe.

Women have a lot of clothes. Some of them are very expensive. Women cannot even go out without feeling that they are looking okey.

They also work very hard on their social status... they talk to their friends most of the time about one thing and one thing only: how to become attractive.

Also keep in mind that Girlschase and blog like this site (i.e the pick up communicity as a whole) was a response to the lack of material on "how to seduce women". There is a LOT of ressources out there for women, covering how to look more beautiful, how to win over men... not talking about all the relationship advices you see everywhere for women. Girlschase and the like exists from a lack of ressources availble for men (now of course, there are a lot of places where you can find such material... but far less than dating tips for women.

"Purely because we are required to pursue, we have to learn and develop beyond that of the women we are pursuing."

Providers are mean to pursue, but here at girlschase (and many other similare places) we wouldl ike to teach men how to become lovers. Lovers do not pursue. Lover, the men who are naturally born lovers do not pursue.

Yes we approach, yes we are the one taking the responsibilities to make things happen. This is because we are the dominant sex... we are active not passive.

But there is a big different between pursuing girls in the classical sense - i.e. "chasing women" and the attractice sense, as leader who are dominant and only make thing happen without any sense of neediness.

"Being the pursued gives them tremendous power. Power is best defined as having the ability to impact your environment with minimal effort and in the dating dynamic this is so true. Let's face it, this blog wouldn't exist otherwise. If the dating dynamic was reversed, these blogs would be targeted to women."

I can agree that women have a certain power here. Women can get laid when ever they need to. We men... not so lucky. YET women do not get laid when ever they want, because they do not feel "allowed to do so". Maybe you are right (I believe you are) that women have some power here, but we men have some pro's women do not have, which is sexual freedom. Women gets labelled as sluts from beng promiscuous... they friends judge them a lot... and women cannot feel free to just bang around in congruence to her desires like we men do.

This freedom makes it up to me. I love myself for being a man and I would NEVER trade that freedom for the power women have, which they rarely benefit from (appart from getting male attention and free drinks at the club).

"What I see is that men have to learn leadership, initiative and attraction/seduction skills, but THEN also filtering out/relationship management issues etc. Conversely, women get to focus primarily on filtering/sifting through and managing their options."

Yes, these are important things to learn in order to become a better man. I would go as far as labelling them as masculin virtues. Women have theirs. Now we can discuss wether those virtues are required, wether they are legit, wehter they are good or bad. My point is, yes we men must learn all this, but on the other hand women have a lot, if not more to learn.

"And let's face it, relationships ARE women's natural environment. It's their field of expertise."

I will not disagree on this one. women usually have the upper hand in the relationships. But before the relationship, if you play your cards well, you will have the upper hand. Also if you become an alpha male you will most of the time always have the upper hand.

There is one thing I agree with. which is that most women are "equals" in the sense that most women are somewhat more equally attractive (at least, most women can get laid and a man they like at will). However for men, only a few portion of men gets all the women (alpha males). We can say that the distributive justice within male circes is less "fair" than in female circles. This is not just some random speculation, evolutionary biology backs this up pretty well and you can read more about it online. I also suggest you to read my post on the secret society for more information. In the end, this site is all about teaching men to become lovers. There is a possibility to become one if you have to motivation to put in some work.

"I admit I get frustrated realising this somewhat. After several years of consistent effort, learning, 100s of rejections etc. I will get very good at something (within my limitations of course) and get attractive girls. I will get good at triggering emotional responses in women which they don't understand the underlying mechanisms of and lead them to become attracted."

Yes, yet you have the chance to be a selector. You approach women you like. Women are actually too affraid to approach most of the time. They pretty much have to choose between the offers they receive. Yes they get a little power here, but we have the power to move on and approach the next girls. If a girl likes none of the men she gets offers from, she will have to stick with it. We can approach the next girl.

Also, since you spend so much time and efforts to get women, it means that you like me is not naturally good with women. Maybe you have bad looks, or just a lack of skill. The good news is that skills can be learned, and when it comes to looks, yes it does matter, but looks is more important for females than men. Many men who are not top looking gets laid, and soem gets laid like mad. An ugly girl however... has a harder time than a bad looking man. however the bad news is that it takes time to become good. But turst me my friend, once you get good, you will have far more power than you could ever imagine. You will have more power than the most attractive girl, because not only will the dynamic be somewhat reversed, but you will also enjoy the sexual freedoms of being a man!

"Point being I put in all this effort into making it happen, she considerably less, but we both get the same good outcome.

Is it me or is it all lopsided?"

All in all, I think it is all pretty fair!

I think you become more optimistic when you get more success and realise that... you can actually reverse the dynamic and understand the work women put in to attract men and the freedoms you have as a man.

I hope this gave you some input. I hope you will keep practicing and enjoying the process.

Best of luck

-Alek

blogster's picture

THanks for your response.


I thank you for your detailed response. A great positive of Girlschase is that in most cases, you tend to reply to commenter’s posts and not only that give great thought and consideration to your responses. I appreciate that this site is one that is willing to discuss issues rather than stand on top of the mountain and simply proclaim “this is the truth”.

I would say in this case I still tend to disagree with you although I do take many of your points. This is not to diminish Girlschase – the advice is very detailed, compassionate, nuanced and shows a high level of understanding of social dynamics. Assuming you want to become better with women I think it is a great source of wisdom.

However, I would say that overall, in terms of energy, effort, risks, rejection, probabilities and outcomes, women generally have a far better deal in this space. Yes, you can become a Casanova, but what is required is far greater than that from women you want to bed.

In my response I would like to focus on several metrics and concepts when considering this question.

Firstly, let’s consider the market in question – the market of men and women seeking sexual companionship.

Secondly, is the concept of value. Obviously, the dating market resides around value. This means having value, being able to demonstrate it, relative value levels etc. Ultimately, to succeed, you must have some level of value.

Thirdly, to borrow from economics, the concepts of supply and demand. The interaction of these determines the ‘price’ or perceived value of a commodity. In the dating market, these commodities are male and female. If we talk about the market Girlschase focuses on, it is the market for sex (not relationships). The relative balance of these, all other things being equal, will influence the market value of the product in question, irrespective of its inherent value (e.g. the market for diamonds).

Fourth, I’d like to draw the analogy of a company seeking employees. A company seeking to fill a position will either try to fill the position through word of mouth or openly advertising. Those interested will then respond by putting in an application, do their research, prepare, dress well and put their best foot forward in interviews, hoping ultimately to be chosen by the company in question. Of course, they can also apply for other positions at other companies, but the company will still have final say. To clarify, I’m not suggesting male-female relationships ultimately follow this pattern, but rather the initial interaction is very much like this. Crucially, one is the selector in all instances. Without the employer’s approval, the employer-employee relationship can’t proceed. This concept is crucial and the one that all others pivot on. One of power.

Fifth, let’s look at the concept of transaction and search costs (to again borrow from economics). In any market, one or both parties need to incur some upfront costs in order to secure the product. As an example, in dating, the man is historically expected to incur the upfront costs of searching for and approaching potential females. If you move to a drink date (e.g. 2 drinks each), the man is expected to foot the bill (note I am not talking about your traditional courtship model of repeated dates of dinner, movies and drinks). And of course, it might not pay off, but from a social perspective, he is unable to get a refund on time and $$!

Six is the concept of asymmetric information. Generally, both parties will enter into an exchange without full knowledge of the other’s intentions, motivations and desires. However, women have a distinct advantage in this area knowing that a man’s primary motivation (at least initially) in any interaction, is sex. Yes it can lead to a relationship, but a woman is right to assume that his first interest is sex and a relationship cannot occur without a man being sexually attracted. Women on the other hand, owing to biology may have several – friendship, social status amongst her friends, validation and ego stroking through attention, a relationship or sex. In most cases her motives are closely guarded while she seeks to determine his value and how it may be useful.

Seven is the concept of risk and return. Seven, a general maxim in society is that the greater the potential return, the greater the risk, aka “no guts no glory”. To succeed big you have to dare to dream.

Eight is the concept of cause and effect. Being physically attractive for a woman is a powerful tool she can leverage for social status. For men social status is a tool to be leveraged for sexual attraction. One takes more effort than the other. Women’s attraction makes them confident in their dealing with men; men’s confidence makes them attractive to women. Again one generally takes more than the other. Hot women can be bitchy; arrogant men are often deemed hot. The cause and effect arrow points in the reverse direction.

Ninth, let’s look at a stark biological truth – in terms of the survival of the human species, which all human interaction is ultimately based on, women are biologically the more valuable sex – the whole apocalyptic ‘one man many pregnant women vs. Many men one pregnant woman’ scenario.

Last, there is hypergamy. Its generally accepted that women are seeking someone of equal or (ideally) higher value. Men will accept someone of lesser value; women wont.

In terms of metrics, firstly, let’s consider effort. This is the time and energy required. This applies to building value, maintaining value and then actually entering the dating market and actively pursuing (i.e. approaching) women. Of note also is the degree of difficulty involved. Some things may take time and effort, but may not have a high degree of difficulty to accomplish. Others may have time and effort, but take considerably longer to get competent at.

Let’s consider value exchange. Both parties in an interaction will have objectives and value they will seek to capture from the opposite sex. For men, the objective is sex. Women may have multiple objectives including validation, sex, social status, alleviating boredom, garnering friends or beta orbiters, useful networking contacts, making someone jealous, free drinks etc.

Third, there is always the concept of ‘risk’ when attempting to do something (in the form of it not coming off for you). Risk occurs when you put yourself out there on the stage of life and fail to achieve. It doesn’t occur when you sit back passively and do nothing active to make it happen.

Fifth, by risking, you can take a hit to your external social value, but also internally to your self esteem and confidence levels. This can be referred to as negative value hits.
Sixth, is the return. In this market the return for men is sex, while for women it can be sex, but also the things mentioned above.

So let’s consider the implications:
1.Value. Most men are not naturally attractive to women whereas women will be attractive to many men. There was a study of dating sites a while back where basically 80 per cent of women only found 20 per cent of men attractive but a much higher percentage the other way. So automatically many men are invisible. When it comes to attainment of value, women are gifted this value - by birth and puberty. The features men find attractive - youth, good skin, eyes, hair, body etc are genetic gifts. She does nothing to earn it - zero effort on their part.

Most men have to work HARD to BECOME attractive. A significant percentage of women JUST ARE attractive by their existence. You put one man and one woman of equal value side by side and odds are the man has had to work hard just to have the same 'sexy' value. Chase himself has said it took him YEARS to get his value. An attractive 21 year old hitting the bars has done nothing. I know personally it took me 4 years of solid training, diet and discipline before attractive girls’ heads would turn. For them, it was simply a case of eating reasonably and dressing themselves up. Bear in mind this is before even talking to them – she hasn’t slept with you yet.

But men then have to have social skills, be charming, dominant, confident, have social status, good body and dress sense. Women just need to be attractive, feminine and youthful. Dress sense helps but is hardly essential. Earning your 'sexy' value as a man is HARD WORK. A women doesn't become, she JUST IS. Yes she may read Cosmo for tips, but all in the frame of PASSIVELY luring the man in, which by definition is much less effort. For women, the game is theirs to lose, for men, it must be won.

Men have to also work hard to maintain value. Women going shopping for clothes, taking hours getting ready etc are not 'building' value they are maintaining/maximising existing value. Women while in competition with each other, are not in DIRECT COMPETITION - there is no physical/direct social conflict where one wins and one loses and hence earns the right to be more attractive to the opposite sex. Further, while preparing for a night out takes time, it is essentially the same repetitive non-competitive effort with no steep learning curve like game.

Then the man has to build sexual attraction during the interaction. Despite value, a man still has to build attraction. Males attraction to women is easily understood by men and much more easily built – it’s a commodity; for women they don’t understand consciously why they are attracted and only know when a man is being attractive/unattractive – it’s a skill that’s developed. Yet women treat these attractions as the same and become irritated when a man isn’t ‘being’ attractive.

2.Returns. Women gain returns from interaction even if they don’t have sex with the man – validation, social status, ego boost, potential networking opps, orbiters, friends, drinks etc. That’s why women love the approach – it validates them. Men only gain value from the end result of sex. The frustration of not finding that right man is at least quelled by the other returns. For men there are no compensating factors, only success or failure in scoring. Should sex occur then both gain value. Because of info asymmetry, men are often none the wiser. Yes, you can smoke out their intentions by getting them to move venues, but it still takes effort.

3.Risk. Men take all the risk – they must be direct, bold and public. Quite often they must do this in front of friends and acquaintances. If they get shot down, then good luck trying someone else in the same location. Not only is probability of success diminished, over time, their value takes a hit. Women, by being passive, can give signals and always maintain plausible deniability if either a) the guy doesn’t like them or b) he’s not what they hoped for. You may talk about the risk of ‘slut shaming’ women face. However, ultimately it is women who are the main slut shamers a) to reduce competition and b) to maintain the market price of sex. As I said before, it’s his to win; hers to lose. One mistake can blow him out; a woman has to commit a major blunder to put a man off. Women may talk about pregnancy risks, rape risks, social status risks etc. but pregnancy risk can be almost eliminated, rape is a very small risk which can be managed and social risk can be managed if she’s smart.

4.Power. With the man approaching, the woman, like the company seeking an employee is in a position of having the final say (power) of any further interaction. A man can approach 100 other women, but the outcome still rests on the woman in question. Yes you can be irresistible, but the woman still has to accept and in some cases may not for a myriad of reasons. But unlike the employer-employee relationship where the power balance is clear, apparently things are ‘equal’ but one has more power.

Also, just like a company has the advantage of being able to maximise the outcome for the best employee, for her given level of attractiveness, she can effectively ‘bid’ her price up by having men approaching and competing for her. If she had to approach, she would most likely not know if that was the best value man she could get. Letting men approach her is the more effective strategy to potentially maximise her outcome.

However, this is also the same reason women never pick someone or complain ‘there are no good men around’. Coupled with endless options approaching them comes a growing ego and expectations and literally choice addiction.

5.Effort during interaction. Finally, there is the pick-up. Men must approach, lead the conversation, take it places, trigger attraction etc. Women on sight already have attraction covered. Men must then navigate logistics, disarm cockblocks, environmental circumstances and ‘shit tests’, endure and manage last minute resistance and anti slut defence. A woman is content to be a passive participant in her own seduction and is happy to float along provided you are doing things well. Women’s effort is passive and largely prior (i.e. getting dressed up).

6.Setbacks. Being blown out, approach anxiety, public embarrassment, not getting the number, getting the number but it being dead wood, messages not being returned, flakes on first dates, flakes on second dates, disappearances etc. It’s all very public too when it happens. Yes, women may get frustrated at getting nothing, but they don’t deal with the initial explicit rejection. When a man gets rejected men will get negative feedback, women get positive reinforcement in some way. If she’s not approached, women can always fall back on plausible deniability, male cluelessness, the man was a chicken etc.

Men by virtue of their role of initiating face more of these than women. Again, all that effort and because of information asymmetry, you’re none the wiser of their true intentions at the time. It can take a severe toll on your self esteem and your development.

So to sum up its like this during any one interaction or over time as you get better – more time, energy and effort to build and maintain value and learn the skills of the game; greater risk and more responsibility than women; not having the final power to make the final decision; more energy and effort during interactions and far more setbacks, YET ONLY THE SAME or (in most cases) less overall return in the end.

To get to that Leonardo DICaprio-esque position in the dating market is a long hard road compared to the hot bar girl at your local nightclub.

zqw 10k's picture

A small break


Hey there Alek, great article! This one feels great to me because it will keep people on the seduction track but I do have a small question though, or more I would like your opinion.
I've been on the GirlsChase website for almost a year now, and the results are going better every time.. I just love learning and reading all these great articles and trying them out when I get the chance to. But I was thinking of taking a small break, not really a break where I won't do anything but more a break where I settle down a bit for like 6 months, set some good relationship rules with the girl and enjoy what I've already learned and worked for. The girl is a good quality girl for my ages, and she certainly isn't someone taken at random.

Do you think this is a good idea? I know that I'll need to keep my abundance mentality, confidence and the "no-care" attitude (which seems to be linked to confidence stuff) but I think I could keep those without much problem. And on the other hand it would make me sexually better as one of the good basic terms of relationship would be sex once a week, with a big maximum of 2 weeks.

So even though not a lot of people are font of relationships, I think I could learn some nice stuff from it without losing much (except seduction time of course) and will make me breath a bit, by taking a break without locking myself up from seduction :)

Thanks for sharing your opinion,

-Zqw

Alek Rolstad's picture

zqw 10k

Author

HI! good question.

Sadly I am not in a position to make decisions about your life. I am here to give advices on how you can get girls, not advices on life decisions.

But I will try to give you a little insights on the following.

It is very normal for us men to want to just sit down and relax with one nice girl. Sadly, you will not relax more in a relationship... you will need to handle the drama, keep the relationship exicted etc... and that requires seduction skills, much different one than the skills required for cold approaches, but still seduction skills. Call relationships a type of game. You are not out of the game even if you are in a relationships, you just won't fuck around like you use to.

Thing with relationships is that I recommend men to become good with women overall... i.e. having met enought women in different situation to get a true understanding of how they work and how to handle situations. This will make sure you will be able to handle difficult situations with your girlfriend (and there will be situations like this).

Also, neediness can become the most dangerous thing in relationships. If you are needy, your relationship will become a living hell. Most men will become more needy in relationships because they only have "this one girl" to provide sex to them, so once that girl doesn't provide any sexual activities or turn her back to you, you become needy.

In order to handle this neediness you must be able to know that you can find a new girl anything, and if things go south, you know you can make a new girl and fuck her... hopefully multiple girls... within the next coming week. Therefore it is adviced to become good with women and train up good pick up skills before entering any relationships. Because, knowing that you can fuck a new girl when ever you want, will make you far less needy.

I do not know your skills level. If it is high, then do what ever you feel for. If you are still a beginner, think twice before considering it. But remember, the decision is yours only.

If your still a noobie, you enter the relationship, be happy for 4 (or more if your lucky) mounth and then live through a living hell... for then suffer from a nasty break up but come out much stronger. You will also learn a lot about female behaviour when being in a relationship. You will also become better in bed which will help you out a lot once you become single.

There a lessons to be learned in relationships. No doubt about that.

But unless you are good with women, I wouldn't recommend entering any relationships before you've trained up the necessary skills. That is my opinion.

However, emotions are strong and I won't blame you if you decide to enter a relationship with that girl. If you do so, I would recommend you to look up relationship advices online... not bullshit advices, but good advices. I highly recommend you to search for relationship advices on girlschase. If there is something you can't find here, I highly recommend you this site: http://www.francoseduction.com/

Franco is well known to chase. He has helped me out a lot last time i was in a difficult relationship. He has also good advices and has been into the game for longer than even chase. He is a psychiatrist and a very good seducer. He can give you the best relationship advices on the net.

Hope that helps you out

-Alek

zqw 10k's picture

Great, response!


Hey Alek,

Great response! Although I do think I can keep my absolute abundance mentality, because I'm one hard boiled egg that just won't change if it doesn't want to. And if the relationship would go to hell, then that's okay because I was kinda already expecting that. :)

But still.. It also got me thinking more and more, even though this could be something cool because it will give some good amounts of experience (I was planning to put some expectations at the start, often sex and some anti-jealousy techniques - techniques that make you free) and it would be laid back because once the girl begins to make drama, I'll just fly away like a free bird. But still.. I give up some freedom, and why should I? I mean.. I don't want to be like all those regular cakes haha.

So I think I'm just going to continue, experimenting a bit or maybe even experimenting huge stuff so I become a master as fast as possible! Because that's why I got into seduction, to be able to seduce almost anyone I wanted.

Anyways thanks a lot for your reply! It made my head a bit clearer and I think I shouldn't think too much about a decision like this, it won't change my life much (although it might be seen as wasting time). I'll just continue to seduce, oh and about my level, I'm on intermediate (or at least I think I am). I do not have super great results but I do have results which I didn't had when I started seduction, and with night game I can kiss almost everyone now. The sleeping part is only a bit tricky for me but I guess that after some practice, a boost to my dominance level, a boost to my sexual tension and by being a little older will do the trick (I'm 19, and every time I try to seduce I fall on 21-26 years old women haha).

Anyways if I could just ask you one more question, what do you recommend with picking up girls who are with a girlfriend? (so only 2) I think the best solution would be to dive straight in, introduce to both, tell the one you're interested in why you talk to her "I saw you and I just had to tell you you have the most amazing hair I've seen today, I'm Wout.." and then ask her directly for her number by saying I would like to know her a bit more and that we should lunch one time together (my fundamentals are tight, so it should work most of the time). This way I don't leave the other girl all alone and I'll just get a number so I can see her again and take her on a date. :) Because honestly I don't know if this is everywhere the case (I haven't traveled a lot yet as of my young age) but everyone is here with 1 friend.

Thanks a lot for the reply!
Cheers,

- Wout

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