The 9 Male Identities and How They Affect You with Women


One of the pieces I promised sometime back was a write-up on identities, and the role these play in your social interactions, seductions, dating, and relationships.

Identity is a huge, important topic with vast implications for how you move through society, but it isn't one that's much talked about because it's difficult to conceptualize, and more difficult still to nail down.

identity

Nevertheless, having a grasp of what your identity is today, and what you'd like it to be tomorrow, helps shine a little more light on the direction you're headed in socially, and being aware of the different gradations of identity allows you to accurately pinpoint where you might be going right with a given identity, and where you may be going wrong.

So, join me on this journey through the looking glass, and let's examine the sometimes-strange and always interesting topic of your social identity.


identity

Your identity is, plainly and simply, what you identify as and aspire to be, and what other people pinpoint you as identifying as and aspiring to be, and what they stereotype you as.

To best understand how important identity is, we must first understand stereotyping, and the role this plays in our social dynamics. Stereotyping is a powerful, dominating social influence that impacts you far more than you're probably aware it does.

And if you aren't actively cultivating an identity that affords you stereotyping you can best use to your advantage, you may be subject to the whims of negative stereotyping based on less consciously-chosen identities - maybe even identities that, instead of you choosing for yourself, other people have chosen for you.


Stereotyping: The Social Amplification System

ster·e·o·type

n.

  1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.

  2. One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.

Stereotyping is a mental shortcut used by all human beings to place new individuals they meet into neat little boxes for choosing how to deal with and behave around those individuals. A lot of people get upset about stereotyping, because stereotypes are often heavy-handed and inaccurate, and are sometimes based on very incorrect information - however, because they are a core mental shortcut, no amount of pouting and screaming is going to do anything about them. Even the people who rail against stereotypes themselves make ample use of stereotypes.

Some common examples of stereotypes are:

  • Men are more violent than women
  • Women are cattier and more gossipy than men
  • White people are boring and good at making money
  • Black people are confident and aggressive but more prone to criminality
  • Asian people are all smart, quiet, passive nerds
  • Americans are dumb, fat, arrogant, and uncultured
  • British are cultured, unattractive, and stiff
  • French are eloquent, attractive, snobbish, and picky
  • Latins are unscrupulously sensual individuals in constant search of pleasure

... and so on and so forth. Obviously, these stereotypes are nowhere near universally accurate... in fact, many of them may be quite off the mark for a large portion of the people they aim to neatly wrap up and pack away in a box.

But if they're so often wrong, why are they so damn pervasive?

A simple look at your close friends, colleagues, family members, and paramours probably shows you (assuming you don't live in a totally homogenous community) plenty of exceptions to the usual stereotypes who don't fit that rule - your friend of XYZ race who's nothing like the stereotype for that race; your ex-girlfriend from ABC country who has only the slightest resemblance to her country's stereotype, and you really have to try hard to make that box fit.

Yet, when you meet NEW people from XYZ race or ABC country, you still stereotype them regardless. How come?

The reason why is because your brain is constantly looking for ways to both keep you away from dangerous or unfruitful situations and to drive you toward helpful or fruitful ones. That's the reason for the unconscious reaction and stereotype Jesse Jackson, the prominent black rights activist, admitted to realizing he held some years back:

There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.

It isn't that Jackson believes that all black people are dangerous. It's that he believes he's much safer walking through a bad part of town if he turns around and finds a random white person behind him than if he turns around and finds a random black person.

The clincher is this: if Jesse Jackson turned around and saw someone he knew, it wouldn't matter if the person behind him was black or white. Because he'd know this person, and he'd know he was in no danger. In fact, he'd be even happier to see an acquaintance, black or white, than he would a random white stranger.

Stereotyping is used almost entirely in our assessments of those we don't yet know, to help us decide on the fly how we need to respond to this person:

  • Is this person potentially a physical danger - might he try to hurt us or rob us?

  • Is this person potentially a social danger - will being seen with him hurt our reputations?

  • Is this person potentially a social boon - will having him in our life make our lives better in some way? Might he, then, become a valuable ally?

  • Is this person a potential mate - is she someone we could take to bed and be happy with?

Those are just a few things we're assessing on the fly about someone new we've just encountered, and while they're often wrong, the mind isn't focused on precision - it's focused on avoiding potentially very bad situations and embracing potentially very good ones.

e.g., seeing an angry-looking guy walking toward you and being afraid of him and getting away is probably silly 9 times out of 10 - there may well be a good explanation why some random guy is walking in your direction looking angry most of the time (he wants to fight that person just in front of you; he's just having a bad day, and is walking home; etc.), but 1 time out of 10 you get attacked for no reason, and maybe even killed.

Conversely, seeing a beautiful woman looking excitedly in your direction, and going over to meet her, may in fact not lead to anything substantial a huge chunk of the time - maybe she was just staring off into space thinking good thoughts, or maybe it was actually your buddy whose attraction she was trying to attract. Yet, the chunk of time you take action and end up with her in your bed makes all the times you took action and got nothing largely irrelevant.

Stereotyping is focused on maximizing opportunities and minimizing threats.


How Do Stereotypes Affect Us?

identityYou're constantly stereotyping everyone you see - "He's fat, so he must be lazy," "She's got a tramp stamp, so she must be a slut," "He's wearing glasses, so he must be smart," "She's dressed quite elegantly, so she must be a real lady" - based on any number of different little tells they give off. You may be right some of the time, or even much of the time, but you almost certainly aren't right all of the time.

But your stereotypes are not what we're concerned with here (and if you want to get rid of the worst negative effects of these, read the article on actor-observer bias); rather, what we're concerned with is how are others' stereotypes of YOU affecting you?

Because I can guarantee you, the effect on you is quite large, and it's almost certainly larger than you know.

From "Automaticity of social behavior: Direct effects of trait construct and stereotype activation on action", published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology in 1996:

Previous research has shown that trait concepts and stereotypes become active automatically in the presence of relevant behavior or stereotyped-group features. Through the use of the same priming procedures as in previous impression formation research, Experiment 1 showed that participants whose concept of rudeness was primed interrupted the experimenter more quickly and frequently than did participants primed with polite-related stimuli. In Experiment 2, participants for whom an elderly stereotype was primed walked more slowly down the hallway when leaving the experiment than did control participants, consistent with the content of that stereotype. In Experiment 3, participants for whom the African American stereotype was primed subliminally reacted with more hostility to a vexatious request of the experimenter. Implications of this automatic behavior priming effect for self-fulfilling prophecies are discussed, as is whether social behavior is necessarily mediated by conscious choice processes.

Restated:

  • People who felt viewed as rude behaved more rudely
  • People who felt viewed as elderly walked more slowly
  • People who felt viewed as "stereotypical African Americans" became more impatient and more aggressive in response to annoying questions

In other words, how you feel people view you actually dictates, to some extent, your actions and behavior... even to the point of becoming ruder or more impatient or walking more slowly down the hallway because you think you're old.

From "A model of (often mixed) stereotype content: Competence and warmth respectively follow from perceived status and competition", another Journal of Personality and Social Psychology paper, this one published in 2002:

Stereotype research emphasizes systematic processes over seemingly arbitrary contents, but content also may prove systematic. On the basis of stereotypes' intergroup functions, the stereotype content model hypothesizes that (1) 2 primary dimensions are competence and warmth, (2) frequent mixed clusters combine high warmth with low competence (paternalistic) or high competence with low warmth (envious), and (3) distinct emotions (pity, envy, admiration, contempt) differentiate the 4 competence-warmth combinations. Stereotypically, (4) status predicts high competence, and competition predicts low warmth. Nine varied samples rated gender, ethnicity, race, class, age, and disability out-groups. Contrary to antipathy models, 2 dimensions mattered, and many stereotypes were mixed, either pitying (low competence, high warmth subordinates) or envying (high competence, low warmth competitors). Stereotypically, status predicted competence, and competition predicted low warmth.

The net finding here was:

  • People viewed as high status (superiors) are perceived enviously as high in competence and low in warmth; conversely,

  • People viewed as low status (subordinates) are perceived with pity as low in competence and high in warmth

For our purposes, we can extrapolate this to mean that if someone views you as low status relative to herself, the main problem you have is demonstrating to her that you "get it", and are not some naïve putz; alternately, if someone views you as high status relative to herself, the main problem you have is demonstrating that you are, in fact, a warm person, and not some holier-than-thou high roller who's out of her league.

In other words, the research on stereotypes ties back quite nicely to what we talk about with attainability and auto-rejection. Pretty cool, right?

And here's one more study, this one on the difference between the stereotyping of boys and that of girls, published in the May 2010 volume of Sex Roles:

Eagly’s social role theory (Eagly and Steffen 1984) was tested examining children’s gender role stereotypes via implicit information processing and memory measures. We explored whether children’s occupational stereotypes were less restrictive for females who engaged in counterstereotypic occupations (Mary-Doctor) compared to males who engaged in counterstereotypic occupations (Henry-Nurse). Fifty-seven American eight- and nine-year-olds from a southwestern city were orally presented with stereotypic male and female names paired with masculine and feminine occupations and asked to create sentences using the name-occupation pairs. We conducted analyses of the created sentences as well as tested children’s memories for the various pairings. Consistent with social role theory, the findings revealed that children’s gender role stereotypes were more restrictive for males, than for females.

If you read the news media, you may be aware of the constant clarion call for Western women to throw off their restrictive gender roles (as well as for Western men to "man up" and... toe the party line for their own gender roles), but in fact it's the boys, not the girls, with the more restrictive roles here.

Now, I didn't find any research that was quite as cut-and-dry as this research for boy and girl stereotypes, though there are some interesting papers if you want to read more here:

Anyway, the point of all this is not to play "who's the bigger victim"; rather, it is to point out that men are every bit as "restricted" by their stereotypes than women are - more so, in fact.

In other words, people stereotype men harder, and men get stuck deeper in their chosen identities... or, the ones chosen for them by others.


Identity: Your Escape Hatch from Stereotypes

There is, however, a way around all this stereotyping. Its something researchers from Indiana University refer to as an "escape hatch" - a way of pushing the eject button from a given stereotype-identity mix.

That "escape hatch" is merely selecting a different identity to associate oneself with.

From "Capitalizing on Multiple Social Identities to Prevent Stereotype Threat: The Moderating Role of Self-Esteem", published in the February 2010 volume of the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin:

One troubling aspect of membership in a stigmatized group is that negative stereotypes about the group’s performance affect one’s personal performance (i.e., stereotype threat). Women who are made aware of the negative stereotype that “women are bad at math” perform worse than women who are not made aware of this stereotype. However, women can use an “escape hatch” to avoid stereotype threat by identifying with another social identity (i.e., college students) that has positive stereotypes for math performance and having greater feelings of self-worth. This research shows that women who had greater self-esteem and were presented with an alternative, positive social identity were buffered from stereotype threat by eliminating working memory decrements responsible for poor math performance. Women lower in self-esteem, however, did not benefit from a positive, alternative social identity when it was available and thus fell prey to stereotype-based working memory and performance decrements.

The interesting thing to note here is that the women in the study who were low in self-esteem were unable to switch identities, and thus really were "stuck" in whatever stereotype others used to pigeonhole them with. High self-esteem women, conversely, were able to shut down negative stereotypes by switching to an identity with more positive stereotypes.

On this site, we call this frame control, and it's essentially down to how good you are at imposing your view of yourself, others, and the world on the people around you, versus how good they are at doing it to you. The more dominant individual tends to win here - or, you might say, the individual who more strongly subscribes to his own view of the world, in which he makes the rules - the individual with the higher self-esteem.

So, the bad news is, if you're low in self-esteem, you're probably not in a place yet where you'll be able to effectively switch identities and adopt strong positive stereotypes at will.

The good news is though, if you're high self-esteem, you very likely can - and even if you're lower in self-esteem, you can still chip away at them gradually and adopt enough of the traits and qualities of a separate identity that people begin to treat you that way and you begin to feel it and believe it yourself.


identity

Before we get to what the 9 different identities are, I want to touch on three (3) different aspects of identity that impact your results with women, and just socially in general:

  • Gradation
  • Combination
  • Vibe

Gradation is where you fall status-wise in a given identity. For example, a wildly famous and well-liked rock star who's had a long and productive career would be near about the highest grade you're going to get for an artist; whereas, some guy just starting out playing music who can't even cut a chord on a guitar is sitting at the low end gradation-wise when it comes to artists. For our purposes, we'll refer to gradation as the "strength" of your identity - an identity with a higher grade is a stronger one.

Combination is the combination of identities you hold - the more identities you hold of similar strengths, the harder it is to box you into any one identity (although, one very strong identity and a number of weaker ones will still find you getting stereotyped by the strong identity - e.g., if you're a tennis star but you also enjoy writing and have a small clothing label, you're still going to get viewed as an athlete, simply because your one very strong identity eclipses all the rest). There are both advantages and disadvantages to having no clear #1 identity.

Vibe is the general air about you above and beyond your identity, including things like:

... and the like. Attitude has only a little to do with identity - while there are always some attitude expectations that go along with identity (e.g., an athlete identity comes with a certain expectation of "bad boy" or "jerk"; meanwhile, a regular guy identity carries a certain expectation of warmth, humility, and approachability), none of these are given - you can have a sexy rebel, and you can also have a very un-sexy, creepy one.

So, don't think that choosing a particular identity lets you off from having to maintain the right air about yourself - building the right vibe is every bit as key here too.


The 9 Male Identities

The 9 male identities we'll cover here - which all have innumerable sub-identities that we won't spend much time on (e.g., artist --> writer, painter, singer, actor, sculptor; athlete --> sports player, bodybuilder, runner, swimmer, mountain climber; etc.) - cover the full gamut of what you'll normally see socially. There are other identities we won't include here - holy man, crazy person, vagabond, male prostitute, etc. - but I'm assuming we don't have a whole lot of guys reading the site who'd fall into, or have much interest in falling into, one of these other groups.

Our 9 identities, in no special order, are:

  1. Rebel
  2. Student
  3. Tough
  4. Regular Guy
  5. Social Butterfly
  6. Businessman
  7. Intellectual
  8. Athlete
  9. Artist

Let's have a look at each one.


Identity #1: The Rebel

The rebel is most easily defined as the guy who is "fighting the system." He marches to the beat of a different drummer. He does things his own way. He doesn't care about The Man - and The Man sure doesn't care about him (he believes). The rebel holds a lot of contempt for anything remotely mainstream, and indeed, he positions himself precisely as everything that mainstream society is not.

identity

Some of the positives of the rebel identity are:

  • He's cool
  • He's independent
  • He's interesting, intriguing, and different
  • He's not swayed by social pressure
  • He fits very easily into the bad boy mold
  • He usually exhibits a range of Byronic characteristics

Some of the negatives of the rebel identity are:

  • He's pessimistic
  • He's an outsider
  • He's sometimes looked down on by more socially plugged-in women
  • He has a harder time breaking into many social circles
  • Authority figures tend to like making life difficult for him

A good way of thinking about the rebel's strengths and weaknesses is that his strengths are the things he's picked up from operating independently on his own, while his weaknesses emerge any time he needs to use "The System" - that is, organized groups of other people with their own rules and routines he hasn't bothered to learn or adopt.

Some of the more common variants of the rebel include:

  • Punks / goths / emos / hipsters
  • Solo inventors / mad scientists
  • Entrepreneurs
  • Hackers
  • Loners

The rebel typically has an easier time sexualizing himself and being appealing to women than a variety of other male identities, mainly because he offers something - an escape from the mundane - that most of the other identities do not. Also, because he's so used to operating "outside the system", the rebel is one of the least likely identities to struggle with behaving in ways mainstream society tries telling him are "bad" - like sleeping with lots of girls and moving fast with them and not worrying a whole lot about committing to them unless he really, really likes them and wants to do this.


Identity #2: The Student

The student is anyone who's in the process of learning something new. The easiest examples of students of course are those in their primary, secondary, or tertiary educations; however, you can be a 75-year-old martial arts or vocal student, as well.

The student identity is one most typically of a certain degree of subservience and inelegance; you are there to do what your teachers tell you to do, and because you are not yet very learned, your performance and execution in any number of things is often sloppy and leaving something to be desired.

Some of the positives of the student identity are:

  • He's actively upgrading himself
  • He's perceived as intelligent / curious
  • He's someone with "potential"

Some of the negatives of the student identity are:

  • He's a follower, not a master
  • He's a "bookworm" - rather than doing something, he reads about it
  • He's viewed as inexperienced and unworldly / unwise
  • He's rather boring and ordinary; unexceptional

The student almost has a childlike identity, where people look favorably on him as someone who can do "anything", someday... but he just isn't there yet. Today, he must study; tomorrow, he can begin thinking about doing something with what he's studied.

Some of the more common variants of the student include:

  • School student
  • Specialty student (musical instrument, martial art, etc.)
  • Nerd (kind of a "super student")

Because of their childlike qualities, students can often be difficult to sexualize. Male students tend to struggle with trying to create a sexual, masculine identity, just as female students can really struggle to be taken seriously as fully grown, sexual, feminine creatures, and not just pupils. Nerds fall on the extreme end of the student identity - their grade is "strong" in student - and for this reason have an even more childlike air about themselves, and tend to be stereotyped as almost infantile in their behavior (temper tantrums, childlike fascination, dislike for or suspicion of girls - watch any "nerd" movie and you'll see these stereotypes).

For this reason, even if you are a student in some way (and most of us are - heck, if nothing else, you're reading this website, which probably means you're a student of seduction and social dynamics), you're best served adopting a different identity, at least for when it comes to meeting women.


Identity #3: Tough

The tough is a fellow whose primary identity is as a hard ass. He's aggressive, he's imposing, and you do not want to get in his way... or on his bad side. He's one not to be trifled with. Included in the tough identity are everyone from common criminals at the low end, to firemen, soldiers, and police offers at the nobler end.

Some of the positives of the tough identity are:

  • He's high on perceived physical dominance - one of the key attraction signals
  • He usually commands a fair bit of respect - even if some of it is grudging
  • He frequently has a solid social circle of friends like him and women who like him
  • His identity is usually very clear and very stable, because it's so far removed from other identities

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Some of the negatives of the tough identity are:

  • Many women are more intimidated by him than attracted to him
  • His work is usually physically demanding and/or, and leaves him too exhausted or too busy much of the time to maintain solid long-term relationships
  • His proneness to violence, bravado, and taking things into his own hands frequently lead to run-ins with the authorities, legal problems, and sometimes jail time, in addition to fights with other toughs, unless he is one of the authorities (and sometimes even then)
  • Because his identity is so clear, and his social circle so set, if he wants to switch to a different identity - say, student, or athlete - this can be quite difficult, and he can face a good deal of negative social pressure from those around him

The tough is typically fine and does well enough with women so long as he sticks to "his" turf, what he's familiar with, and what he knows. Toughs who want to spread their wings and mingle with other crowds though can find this difficult, as most other types of people are cautious around their hard, aggressive demeanor and frequent inability to fit in with more "cultured" crowds. That said, well-dressed, more presentable toughs who've taken the time to cultivate a degree of some of the other male identities can still find a selection of women outside their usual circles that find them exciting, "dangerous" in an electrifying kind of way, and may even prefer them to the more boring, "less masculine" men those women are around the majority of the time.

Some of the more common "disreputable" variants of the tough include:

  • Thug
  • Biker
  • Redneck
  • Drug dealer
  • Gang member

Some of the more common "respectable" or "noble" variants of the tough include:

  • Some manual laborers
  • Fireman
  • Police officer
  • Soldier

The tough, like the rebel, has an easy association with edgy, masculine, bad boy qualities, and is one of the more easily sexualized identities. In fact, he's a lot more likely to be viewed as masculine, aggressive, and dominant than either the rebel or the athlete is, and is probably the strongest of all the identities in these respects. On the downside, he's very frequently so strong in these areas that he becomes intimidating or unrelatable to most of the women outside of the circles he travels in; but so long as he sticks to the women who have a "thing" for guys like him, he'll usually have no problems whatsoever.


Identity #4: The Regular Guy

Ah, the poor regular guy. He goes about his life, just following the beaten path, not trying to cause any ripples or do anything too crazy, just like almost everybody else, but he just can't get no love. All the regular girls around him - and, just like most guys are regular guys, most girls are regular girls - want some other kind of guy... not him. The best way of describing the regular guy is "vanilla" - he's just bland. He's normal. He just... kinda there. No "passions", no real drive, no motivation - he's not trying to change the world. He just wants to live a good enough life and not worry about all that pointless wall-climbing and barrier-breaking all those crazy people TV seems to glorify keep doing.

Some of the positives of the regular guy identity are:

  • He's very relatable
  • He's not crazy or a misfit
  • He doesn't have to worry about being judged as "too extreme"
  • He doesn't polarize women, so there are no women who really dislike him

Some of the negatives of the regular guy identity are:

  • He's just like everybody else - he's a dime a dozen
  • There's not much about him that's all that interesting to women
  • It's hard for him to meet new women because he won't break social convention and cold approach, and his social circles usually tend to be quite limited
  • He doesn't polarize women, which means not only are there no women who really dislike him, but also that there are no women who really like him, either

The regular guy is the guy who's a student when he's in school, and a regular guy once he's out, and that's pretty much all he ever is for his entire life. He frequently finds women frustrating, and is prone to being a nice guy and ending up in the friend zone, since it's hard for him to differentiate himself from other men and he ends up trying to compete by showing women how kind, thoughtful, and stable he is - things that 25 other men competing for the same women he's competing for are competing with him on as well.

Some common variants of the regular guy include:

  • Family man
  • Average Joe
  • Office workers and middle managers
  • The "down on his luck" guy on unemployment between jobs
  • Line workers and non-tough manual laborers

The regular guy is probably the hardest of any of the identities to sexualize, outside of perhaps some sub-identities like the nerd. That's because he just doesn't have much going on ordinarily that lights up any of women's sexual interest triggers. The good news for the regular guy is that because he really doesn't have too strong of an identity, it's usually pretty easy for him to begin adopting another identity - one that lends itself more readily to becoming sexually attractive to women, like the athlete, the artist, or the rebel. If he does this, the regular guy can often still maintain the things he already has in his life, while adding an entirely new dimension of good things.


Identity #5: The Social Butterfly

The social butterfly is a real connections guy. He's always in good spirits, knows a ton of different parties he can invite you to, and has dozens of people he wants you to meet. The social butterfly lives for people - meeting people, getting to know people, talking to people, entertaining people.

identity

Some of the positives of the social butterfly identity are:

  • He's friendly, social, and gregarious
  • He's optimistic, upbeat, and inspirational, with contagious energy
  • He is always deeply plugged into the social circle, and is never an outsider
  • He meets lots of new people, all the time... he's never at a loss for new acquaintances

Some of the negatives of the social butterfly identity are:

  • He's often too busy networking to focus much on building very deep connections
  • He can have difficulty zeroing in on one particular person in social situations
  • People who aren't butterflies themselves often consider him shallow and trite
  • His social life is a revolving door... new people come in, but old people go out, too, or at least quickly move to positions of increasingly little prominence in his life

You can most easily think of the social butterfly as "someone who needs to constantly be making new connections." Connections for himself, and connections among the people he knows - little puts a smile on the social butterfly's face more than connecting two people he knows whom he think will be a good fit. The person at the center of the majority of social circles is a social butterfly of some sort of another - he's just naturally a guy who likes bringing people together.

Some of the more common variants of the social butterfly include:

  • Party host / emcee / promoter
  • Marketer / sales professional
  • Leader of the group or life of the party
  • "That guy" who loves talking to everyone and laughing and having a good time constantly

The social butterfly is somewhere in the middle of the pack when it comes to how easily sexualized his image is... because he doesn't zero in on people by default, it's challenging for him to build the strong sexual tension that comes from an intensely focused gaze on and immersion in another person, and the identity of "social butterfly" itself inspires more friendly "gee, he's a swell guy" feelings in women more than it does any burning, passionate, lusty desires. However, because the social butterfly is so socially experienced and so comfortable with people, it's often easy for him to adopt a more sexual identity to combine with his fluidity with other people that allows him to very easily rack up a number of lovers in a short span of time.


Identity #6: The Businessman

The businessman is all about work, efficiency, and production. He doesn't care so much for social trifles, like the butterfly does, nor is he all that concerned with doing a lot of status jockeying or "proving himself" like the roughneck and the rebel, respectively. He also isn't content living an ordinary life like the regular guy - the very idea sounds intrinsically boring to him. Instead, the businessman wants success - usually defined as money - and he wants a lot of it.

Some of the positives of the businessman identity are:

  • He has a killer instinct that makes him good at seizing the things he wants
  • He doesn't dilly-dally, and creates opportunities to move as efficiently as he can
  • He commands respect, mostly due to his effectiveness and no-nonsense demeanor
  • He's down-to-Earth, blunt, usually honest, and straightforward
  • He has a masculine aura about himself, and is generally regarded as powerful

Some of the negatives of the businessman identity are:

  • He can be too boom-boom-boom, and scare off those who prefer a more relaxed pace
  • He's often quick to write things off that aren't panning out fast enough - sometimes leading to missed opportunities
  • His lifestyle is generally one that's more stressful than most of the other identities'
  • His relationships can be short-lived, due to his uncompromising and impatient nature
  • He can be off-putting to more sensitive individuals who prefer more indirect communication

A good shortcut for wrapping your mind around the businessman identity is thinking of the businessman as a "let's make it happen" kind of guy. He's focused on concrete, tangible results, and sees everything else as a waste of time. This can make him less appreciative of some of the finer things of life, and he has a difficult time connecting with or maintaining relationships with people more interested in smelling the roses than in bulldozing them to put up a strip mall.

Some of the more common variants of the businessman include:

  • Politician
  • Rising star (in business or politics)
  • Upper management / executive
  • Small business owner (non-lifestyle business)
  • General, admiral, or police chief
  • Flimflammer or conman

The businessman is somewhat easily sexualized, due mainly to his masculinity and "take-no-prisoners" attitude. However, he's normally very difficult to relate to for a large segment of the population, and his demeanor can screen out a number of women who might otherwise find him attractive, but instead find him overly terse and abrasive. If the businessman can adopt another attractive but more relatable identity in addition to his businessman identity - e.g., artist, athlete, etc. - he can take the edge off some of this harshness and lend himself the more "human" feel that's lacking when he's nothing but a results-oriented human steamroller.


Identity #7: The Intellectual

The intellectual lives in a world of the mind: ideas, philosophy, experiments, tactics, strategy, theories, hypotheses, arguments, and debates are his forte. The intellectual is a true "brains over brawn" type - he outmuscles the competition with thoughts and words more than fists and fury. At the top end, intellectuals command some of the most respected (and almost untouchable) positions in Western society.

Some of the positives of the intellectual identity are:

  • He's viewed as a leader / authority due to high perceived levels of competence
  • His life is generally relatively stable, with stable career paths as a thought leader
  • He carries a certain mystique that the other identities frequently lack
  • He's one of the best of the identities at securing a "legacy"
  • He's often "eccentric", a close cousin of the rebel's independence
  • His otherworldly identity affords him much freedom from social pressure

Some of the negatives of the intellectual identity are:

  • He can seem unrelatable to less-educated women
  • He can have a difficult time breaking free from the stability he creates for himself
  • His need for intellectual dominance often leads to falling outs with those who don't "toe the party line" he sets out for them intellectually
  • He can be viewed as overly arrogant and haughty by some of those who do not share his love for ideas and the mind, and these may actively taunt, challenge, or work against him

identity

It's easy to think of the intellectual as a man who seeks to express his masculine dominance through the intellectual domination of others - he is right, and everyone else is wrong. Intellectuals establish their identities by winning academic "fights" and debates with challengers, using their ideas as the proof of their strength as men.

Some of the more common variants of the intellectual include:

  • Teachers
  • Professors
  • Researchers
  • Academics
  • Nonfiction writers
  • Documentary makers
  • Movement leaders
  • Public speakers
  • Preachers

The intellectual frequently finds himself having a not-so-difficult time being sexually appealing to a large chunk of women - typically who find his large degree of frame control and strong certainty about his purpose and the world to be very compelling and things that easily position him as an authority figure. Intellectuals very frequently find themselves in positions of leadership - whether commanding the public spotlight as a prominent thought leader, or commanding a group of unruly 6-year-olds as a kindergarten teacher. Because of this, they get very accustomed to telling others what to do, and very used to being challenged - and overcoming those challenges. If the intellectual really wants to up his results with women though, he'll take some time to cultivate another, more mundane identity - say, athlete, rebel, or even a touch of regular guy - to allow him to more easily relate to the population at large - and to those women who might ordinarily be intimidated by his normally towering (it seems to them) intellect.


Identity #8: The Athlete

The athlete, like the tough, relies on his brawn most of all, though unlike the tough, who uses his brawn in the wilds of day-to-day life, the athlete more typically channels his resources into excelling in the more rule-based and restricted realm of competitive sports. This actually makes him more approachable to a larger swath of women than the tough is - he more closely fits the "safer", rule-oriented life a regular girl knows - though he sacrifices a degree of edge in order to get this (and you will often see many athletes trying to mimic tough behavior in order to try to attain some of the tough's rawness - though they never quite get there).

Some of the positives of the athlete identity are:

  • He's big, strong, and manly - things very attractive to women
  • He's physically dominant - another major attraction trigger
  • He's typically quite confident; especially if he's remained an athlete for a number of years, that's probably because he's been enough of a winner to keep at it
  • He's used to working with and (often) commanding a team of similarly powerful, more dominant men, which makes dealing with most women fairly easy for him
  • He offers a "bad boy experience" without the danger of a true tough or rebel

Some of the negatives of the athlete identity are:

  • He's viewed as less intelligent, which can cause some women to write him off
  • He lacks the raw edge of a true tough and some rebels - his brawn is used only in constrained / artificial / hobby environments, rather than in the real world in dangerous situations as a way of daily life
  • He lacks the "pulling off impressive things with his mind" factor of the businessman, intellectual, and artist
  • He lacks the good-with-people persona of the social butterfly

Essentially, you can think of the athlete as a one-trick pony; his trick is that he's big and strong and reasonably successful at sports. This is both his blessing and his curse; there are a number of women who find him exciting for this, but often just for brief flings, and he will very often have a good deal of trouble holding onto women in relationships.

Some of the more common variants of the athlete include:

  • Bodybuilder
  • Sports player
  • Fighter / boxer / martial artist
  • Mountain climber
  • Swimmer
  • Runner
  • Jock

The athlete usually has an easy time being sexually appealing to women; he has raw masculine sex appeal as a result of both his physique and his prowess at vanquishing other men or obstacles, as well as the show of discipline it takes to reach these heights. Where he's lacking is in relationship staying power, and in consistently landing more educated / ambitious women; for these, he's best served cultivating the businessman or intellectual side of his personality, which gives him a very strong one-two punch of brains and brawn.


Identity #9: The Artist

Rounding out our identities list is the artist, that creative soul who finds joy in bringing new works of beauty and profundity into the world. The artist holds an almost mythical status culturally, as someone out there, magical, and sometimes all but driven by demons.

Some of the positives of the artist identity are:

  • He's creative - something that's very closely tied with sexual attractiveness
  • He walks his own path and shrugs off social norms, like the rebel
  • He's uncommon - women don't meet artists every day
  • He's intriguing; what is he creating? Why is he creating it?
  • He's seen as eccentric, and is able to get away with many things that would be seen as odd or incongruent for men with other identities - e.g., pulling women he's just met into unusual places for fast sex

identity

Some of the negatives of the artist identity are:

  • He's something of a social dropout - some women are put off by his lack of "real world" credentials
  • His eccentricity can be a turn off to certain sections of women
  • He's often poor, with an unstable life, which can make long-term relationships more difficult
  • He can sometimes be dominated by toughs, businessmen, and other identities who consider his talents effete and "not worth doing" (though he may just slip the girl his number regardless when these men aren't looking)

The artist is the dreamer of this bunch of identities. He's an idealist, and longs for a "perfect" world where things are exactly as he thinks they should be. His art is an effort to render that world and merge the real world with the dream world, and for this reason he's something of a captivating person - he's someone many women feel they can lose themselves into, caught up in his dreams and carried somewhere faraway and fantastic.

Some of the more common variants of the artist include:

  • Singer
  • Painter
  • Novelist
  • Sculptor
  • Composer
  • Architect
  • Musician
  • Director
  • Dancer
  • Actor

The artist is usually easily sexualized, due to the intrigue he builds around himself. Intrigue combined with the clarity of his artistic vision makes him a captivating potential lover for a number of women, looking for an escape from their dreary lives. Like the athlete though, the artist suffers from poor long-term prospects, and can also be written off by certain types of women - in this case, those who view art as "not a real contribution / not something worth doing" - and, for the broadest desirability among the largest set of women, along with the best long-term prospects, he's best taking on a secondary identity with something both a little tougher and a little more material - the businessman and the rebel identities are usually the best complements to artist here.


Selecting Your Identity(ies)

How do you pick the right identity for you?

Well, you'll of course want to select an identity that appeals to your natural inclinations. If you love competitive sports, you'll probably be a lot happier as an athlete than as an artist. If you love efficiency above all else, you'll be much better suited to a businessman identity than a social butterfly one.

But once you have your identity established, and it is a firm one - that is, you have a high grade in it and are "strong" in that identity - you'll usually be best served developing a secondary or tertiary identity to your primary identity that is complementary of it. Having a complementary identity to your primary one allows you to compensate for some of the weaknesses of the primary identity, and makes you better able to connect with a broader array of women and people.

Identity is a powerful phenomenon. Our behavior and perceptions of ourselves are shaped to a large degree by how others think of us and how they treat us. Yet, we can shape how others think of us and treat us by adopting different identities, and acting in ways or communicating about ourselves in ways that lead to those others then treating us differently.

There's a great deal you can do with controlling how others view and interact with you, and identity is one of the biggest parts of it. So choose yours wisely - its ripple effects will be felt in every aspect of your daily life, both now and in years to come.

Always,
Chase

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

love this article


love this article

Jamie's picture

Apartment


Hey chase great article. Feels to me like the artist combined with rebel would be a good identity to craft.

The question I have in in relation to apartments. Im currently looking to move city's, I earn quite a nice amount of money and so have quite a few options when it comes to which apartment to chose.

In general I always play down my financial freedom etc and try to remove myself from the possibility of becomming boyfriend material which is created by having a well paying job.

The question I have is how important is choosing the right apartment when it comes to quick sex? And what kind of apartment should I go for?

Girls aside, I genuinely don't really care much, I hardly spend anytime inside anyway and so going for the luxurious isn't something I need at all. But I am interested in the dynamics.

Would it be more efficient going small and 'toned down'
Or big, open and luxurious?

I'd imagine if you took a girl back to a huge, expensive looking penthouse, with views and pool tables etc it may spark that 'hm he could be a useful bf' and cause her to slow down?

If you could just confirm my suspicions, thanks.

Anonymous's picture

Apartment


I don't have much experience with housing, but I would recommend small and cozy. Its more intimate and you guys can be closer together than have all this room to be distant. Go for only a couch or a bed, as these places you would normally sit together. Than escalate man. Best of luck

gifatron's picture

Chase once said he had a much


Chase once said he had a much easier time physically escalating in his studio apartment where the main piece of furniture was his bed than anywhere else. I can relate, I think.

I will say, though, that I have a couple of younger female friends who LOVE staying over at my larger, fancier place simply because it's so "cozy".

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Apartment

Author

Jamie-

If you can pick any kind of apartment anywhere, I'd pick a place that's very close to where you meet women most of the time - so that you have dream logistics ("Let's hop upstairs for a moment and have a drink, and then we can head back down to the club in a couple more minutes") - and then a place that's nice, cozy, and narrow, so that girls don't feel exposed in a lot of open space. Ideally have nowhere but the bed or the bed and the (small) sofa to sit down on. Go for warm colors - dark browns and tans are always a good bet, maybe with some splashes of red here and there. Dark colors make a place feel smaller and cozier, and "safer".

I've liked having a big mirror in the middle of the room, too (preferably opposite the bed - that one's a LOT of fun once things get hot). A big plate glass window with an amazing view of the town usually creates a really nice atmosphere, too - small place with warm colors + one giant wall-window looking out over the city below gives you the perfect mix of safe, cozy closeness with openness and natural light (if daytime) that makes a place not feel so closed off that it's stuff, too.

My preference has been for studio apartments - I've had 1 or 2 bedroom places at various times, and never found them quite as good for getting girls in bed as studios. One weird exception I've found has been staying in a really tiny room in a friend's house - that one was oddly very good for getting girls in bed - I think they saw the house and thought, "Ooh!" then saw the room and though, "Oh," and then just did a quick assessment and said, "Well, what the heck - it's not like I'm going to hang onto this guy as a boyfriend."

Chase

Anonymous's picture

What do I do if I think #1,


What do I do if I think #1, #2, #7 and #9 are inseparable and I'm all 4 at the same time?

Chase Amante's picture

Too Many Equal Identities

Author

Anon-

Well, the thing to be careful of with identities is having too many of roughly equivalent levels.

If you're equally a bunch of different things, that very quickly bleeds into looking like nothing in particular, and simply getting rolled up mentally as one of the more general roles - e.g., student, or regular guy.

The other thing you want to be mindful of is that it's not so much what you see yourself as, as how you present yourself to other people and what they see you as. You might not be an athlete at all, but if you meet a girl and start talking about how much you love rugby, she's going to pin you as an athlete. So, if you have four different identities, you're probably not wearing all four hats with every person you meet (and if you are, they're probably choosing the most general one to identify you with), which means you might have a teacher who views you as "Anon the Student", a buddy who views you as "Anon the Rebel", and a girlfriend who views you as "Anon the Artist and Intellectual", and the experience each has with you is a little bit different.

Chase

bobby's picture

Question About my Identity


Hey chase. I'm a Psychic/Healer into the occult studies and stuff; so when I tell people that they either laugh, are like this guy is fuckin crazy or generally i feel girls are a lot more into it. I fit into the rebel and artistic categories. If you want to know im more like george carlin as I hate being the same and im more like a rebel but I look nerdy.

So what can i be? even though internally Im a TRUE rebel at heart, also a psychic. But im a Indian and people stereotype me as a nerd.

MackJulianWhosCoolerthan's picture

One two punch


Chase,

As a follower of your blog for sometime now I can confidently say your blog has given me more confidence to try new things and adopt healthy mindsets so thanks! My question is in regards to fitting into many of those stereotypes coupled with being a minority (African American). Is there more a profound effect on women if I fit multiple molds as well as contradict the mainstream stereotype of my particular character.To clarify I am a for D1 two sport athlete, student, intellectual, I say rebel because I am a bit of a healthy pessimist but prescribe slot to the mainstream, I am artist I play the alto sax, tough because I have a bad side that has landed me in trouble nothing that tattooed to me, and when I want to be social butterfly because some days I like to keep to myself. How does this effect how women see me? I make sure I am humble to be attainable but once I feel like understand then women through me another curveball. I guess what I am asking is it better for me just to identify with one or two stereotypes...or the more the better?

Your truly,
MaCk

Chase Amante's picture

Multiple Stereotypes

Author

Mack-

You're usually best served having one dominant identity, with a secondary one that's not as strong, and maybe a few lesser roles thrown in to even things out at the bottom end. But if there's too much different stuff going on with you, it becomes confusing, and people categorize you either by your strongest trait, or, if there is no clear strongest, sometimes just lump you into a general category... which seems kind of unfair, especially if you are very talented in a lot of different things, but that's what they do.

I remember being in school with kids who were Dean's List students, were on the school sports teams, were painters, and were musicians, and were also always socializing and upbeat and fun, and my impression of them was always "Student", which is kind of a general catchall term for people who don't really stand out (and are otherwise in school). Whereas, guys who were only students and athletes I saw as "Student-Athlete", and guys who were only students and musicians I saw as "Student-Artist." Other people may be more discerning than I am with multiple identities, but when I've tried throwing too many different things at women in conversations, you can see their interest just shut down and they roll you into some general, boring category... despite all the interesting things you have going on.

That doesn't mean stop doing all the great things you're doing - but it does mean to choose carefully which sides you present with which people, depending on what kinds of results you want. e.g., when I had a "Regular Guy" job, I pretty much never talked about that with girls, and instead only mentioned "Artist" jobs. I didn't stop working, but I did stop talking about things with girls I liked that might lead to them boxing me into a more boring category.

Chase

Tritium's picture

Fictional characters


I'm curious, how would you classify James Bond, or some of the other sexy characters of fiction we've discussed as examples in the past?

Also, Chase it would be helpful if you wrote an article someday on networking at professional events (not necessarily events specifically for networking): both tips on effective networking in itself, as well as tips on how to meet attractive women who happen to be there and aren't expecting a "non-professional" conversation.

Thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Fictional characters

Author

Tritium-

Noted on the networking article - it's now on the list.

Bond is a stereotypical rebel - go down the list of characteristics for the "Rebel" identity, and you'll see he checks off every one. Fictional characters tend to be highly stereotypical, just because that makes them easier for the viewer's or reader's mind to process - the brain's able to say, "Ah, okay - I know which guy this is. Got it."

A lot of movies tend to be about the interplay between rebels and regular guys (or gals). Either the rebel comes into the regular guy's life and messes everything up or shows him how to live, or the regular guy comes into the rebel's life and opens up his eyes (and heart) to a more down-to-Earth way of life.

Occasionally movies will be about exploring the inner character depth of a seemingly-stereotypical character - the athlete who actually has great emotional depth; the artist and his tortured soul; the athlete who turns out to be an intellectual; the rebel who turns out to be an intellectual; etc. But these aren't as common, and usually are not as "exciting" or blockbuster-prone as rebel-meets-regular-guy-and-life-lessons-or-chaos-ensue.

If you want to get really thoughtful about it, you might even say that most Bond villains are actually "regular guy" villains who are using the regular (if corrupt) system to tilt things their ways, and Bond (the rebel) comes to the rescue to point out the faults of The System and save the day from the corrupt regular guy... more or less living out on screen a fantasy of every boy and man out there in the viewing audience.

Chase

TORNADO's picture

Mind Blown...


Another great article. However, I find myself difficult to associate with a particular identity. I seem to have few qualities of each of the above.

For eg: I am viewed as an intellect. My large frame and height intimidates women and I am also sometimes considered a rebel. I play tennis and also am a Violinist. I wear specs so I am classified sometimes as a Geek/Nerd and also I was friendzoned for one year.

Many of my friends have told me that I have a split personality and I agree with them. For eg: While in one place I maybe treated like a King, in some other I am treated like a peasant.

How does one get RID of an identity? Or do you recommend me to go ahead with multiple personalities and focusing only on the strength?

Lastly, I had a suggestion for you. You produced a brilliant article in "How to get a girl back who has friend-zoned you". Is it possible for you to create an article about "How to re-build your reputation"

Chasing behind one girl has damaged my reputation pretty bad. I used to be at my peak - Leading projects, getting invited to important people's parties etc. Now none of that is happening as I am sidelined and reduced to a big Zero. Is it realistically possible to restore a damaged rep?

Chase Amante's picture

Picking and Shedding Identities, and Damaged Reputations

Author

Tornado-

Most men don't have clearcut identities all that much - it's actually a fair bit of work to do, defining yourself clearly as one standout thing, and usually only happens if you are super passionate about that thing. So, pretty common to not be able to choose one - you'll notice there are lots of other guys saying the same thing throughout the comments section.

You can assume whatever identity you want simply by working on it and inhabiting it more and more with time - the more you work to take on an identity, the more you actually do. Likewise with ridding yourself of one - as you use an identity les and less, it eventually goes away. No one I meet now has ANY idea I used to make rap music and dress in baggy clothes and wear lots of big chunky jewelry and carry a knife around with me everywhere and have run-ins with the police, and they all laugh and think it sounds like the strangest thing in the world when I tell them this, because my identity now is so far divorced from what it was 7 or 8 years ago. Usually they think I'm pulling their legs when I first tell them. The only shades of that identity you'd ever see now is if I get very angry (which is very rare), because I still use it for both intimidation and attack; otherwise, it's a memory.

Reputation recovery I'm certain is possible, but aside from going from pariah to respected individual in grade school / junior high I don't have experience with reputation restoration. I'd suspect it'd mainly revolve around taking some time off from too much socializing in those circles to go work on yourself and upgrade your social skills, because the main thing people are worried about when they reject you socially is that you were socially unaware before, and that usually doesn't change in people, so why would they want to risk their own social reputations being cool to you again? You must have something to offer they want (your own rebuilt coolness; access to parties through new friends; etc.). Anyway, I'll add this one to the topic list - although my main suggestions for now would be get as much social proof and preselection going on as possible in front of those you want to see you in a different light.

Chase

Gem's picture

Attractive Girl's Friend


Hey Chase,

Do you know why when a girl is hot her friends are sort of expected to be hot too? It’s sort of a stereotype, I suppose (and it doesn’t matter much when it’s for a fling), but, for myself, when I get into a relationship that’s something I look at and I’m not completely sure why. When I’ve dated girls that are quite attractive and have great personalities to compliment it but then I find their friends aren’t as attractive or special, it sort of seems unsettling, like something is off about the girl that missed my senses and I didn’t pick up on. Do you know what the reason for this is?

-Gem

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Attractive Girl's Friend

Author

Gem-

Sure - I know what you mean! Attractive women will tend to group together - part of this is that a big part of what goes into being "hot" is hair, makeup, clothes, heels, behavior, and other aspects of presentation that a woman who's into these things is going to tend to want to friend up other women are into them too and not mesh quite so well with women who aren't.

When you find the attractive girl who has unattractive friends, it's usually a signal either of a self-esteem issue (she needs to be the most attractive woman present, emotionally, and have no competition that's even remotely close), OR a temperament issue (she needs to be the boss, and cannot tolerate anyone competing for the "head of the group" role, which attractive women often seem to be more likely to do).

Occasionally, if she hasn't been living in a city for all that long, it can be a result of something like just her background in that town; I had a girlfriend who'd just gotten out of school, and showed me a picture of her class and basically everyone in that class except her was ugly, and she hadn't built much of a social life outside of school, so all her friends were unattractive classmates of hers. After we were together a little while though, and she started meeting new women as she went about her day, she pretty quickly started amassing some very attractive friends, and stopped spending time with the unattractive ones - I realized her ugly friends had been purely situational. However, that's somewhat of an unusual occurrence; usually, a girl's friends will reflect her interests and needs more than they will her situation.

Chase

Yink's picture

Cocky And Funny!!!


Hi Chase,this is one GREAT article,I have discovered my main identity and I'm trying to develop a second identity to add to it.However I do have a question for you and it relates to a concept called "cocky and funny".It is a concept that "dating gurus" of the old dating community advised their students to use with women.It is the art of complementing a woman then insulting her afterwards in order to increase her attraction for you.I noticed that you never talk about it,but I don't know why,do you believe in it?.I used to do it before and I noticed that women loved it though I would say that it got me MORE reactions than results.What is you take on that?.Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Cocky And Funny!!!

Author

Yink-

Here's just the article you're looking for!:

Tactics Tuesdays: The Truth About Cocky and Funny

See? We've got everything on here ;)

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Asking directly


Hey chase, nice analysis of the types of male personalities. I had query thats been bugging me for quiete a while now. I have seen that u r always a fan of conveying messages through actions and never in your articles or comments have you mentioned talking to the girl about the issue directly. for eg. you know the girl wanted you a couple of weeks back but you missed the escalation window. no matter how hard have you tried you are not able get it back to have it was and she has gone cold and aloof. She still hangs out but she's aloof. Wouldnt it be logical to somehow broach the topic in a fun way and ask if she wants it now. Because its almost impossible to realise if she is into auto-rejection or if she has found a new guy.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Asking directly

Author

Anon-

You don't want to shift to asking things directly until after you're already sleeping with a girl. Before then, you don't have the connection that intimacy brings, and a woman will not risk her reputation on you to give you verbal satisfaction - e.g., her mindset is, "If you're going to do it, you're going to do it, and your words are worth NOTHING."

You can certainly try out anything you want to try out - just about anything CAN work, given the right circumstances and the proper execution. However, it's been my experience that trying to address a failure of actions with words alone is like trying to put out a house fire by blowing on it; you're probably just going to waste your breath, and maybe even make the thing worse.

Men are better at overriding their emotions than women are, so they'll tend to try to understand women from a male point of view. For instance, if a friend of yours threw parties every other weekend that you REALLY wanted to go to, and you told him this, and he said, "Yeah, sure, I might invite you," and you got really excited, and then he didn't invite you... and then the next time you saw him, you brought it up again, and he said, "Yeah man, definitely, I'll have to send you out an invite," and again, he didn't invite you... and then you got sick of his crap and started being cold to him because he's just an asshole... and then one day he said, "Well, do you want to come to one of my parties now, or what?" you may well overrule your bad emotions just for the sake of going to the party, because your logic tells you, "You know what? Swallow your pride - this party is worth it." For most women though, their "pride" (their reputation) is way more important than sex with any one guy - sex is cheap, and they can get it any time they want.

Besides, there's far more satisfaction to be had by getting the guy to chase and start asking them if they want sex - then they can feel satisfied and say, "Ha! I don't want him anymore, but now HE wants ME!"

And at that point, you really ARE done.

Basically: any chasing you do while she's in auto-rejection usually serves as another nail in your coffin, rather than something that springs one of those nails loose. Use preselection to get her interested and warm again instead - and then, be sure to hit her escalation windows before it's too late a second time.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

How to apply this?


Although it is an interesting read, you don't really go into how to become more of one identity. Personally I am closest to the athlete catagory. How do I truly become this identity and make that identity something that people notice?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: How to apply this?

Author

Anon-

Two things: talking about it, and acting like it.

Talking about it means just working it more into your conversation. What do you do? I play hockey. How do you spend your time? Riding my bike or slapping the puck around, mostly. How long have you been in town? I got a sports scholarship to come here and play for the school team, and I've been here ever since - I guess that'd put me at 6 years now.

Acting like it comes down to emulating the traits and behaviors you see other guys in the sports category - and, especially, your particular sports category - act like. It's useful to have a role model whom you know women consider "sexy" and is in sports - David Beckham or Derek Jeter or whoever's hot right now. Then, just see how many of his mannerisms you can adopt - as you adopt more of them, you'll more and more easily inhabit the stereotype, and get the results and reactions that go along with it.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Well, this was interesting. I


Well, this was interesting. I think I a lot of people know this subconsciously. But I think there are things that can disturb your whole "you". For example being jacked, toned dude and wear multi-colored shirts with short sleeves and wearking glasses that makes you look like intelectual. I once met a guy like this and the weirdest thing was his appearence was shifting between nerdy, smart and tough. I dont really know how women would react to him but for me it was quite disrupting.

And there is another thing, what if I have many identities but that gradation is ok but not great? To be komplex person. I draw and create animations and on the other hand I play some small football league on weekends and on weekdays and Saturdays I play ice hockey which I have been playing for 16 years. People tell me how smart I am, girls on the other hand friendzone me but that is totally because I have no idea how to interact with them and the nice guy vibe.

Is it possibl to just shift between personas in different situations? A lot of actors do that. They go on a set, tough that shit up with aggression like Hugh Jackman and then go home to their families where they are great parents and caring husbands. But my guess is the girl has to see you in different situations to see you as a different person. Because it was similar for me - a girl told me she does karate and I was like ok, but then I saw a video from her match and how she got hit pretty hard and on the other hand kicked her opponent even harder and out of nowhere. So I guess there might be just problem with being on display. Which can be fixed if I get so good at all these things that more people will have associated my name with many different and cool things.

Chase Amante's picture

Many Identities / Display of Identities

Author

Anon-

Yes, I had a friend like that in Southern California - jacked, tanned, tight-form-fitting short-sleeved t-shirts, spikey guido hairstyle... and glasses. And to top it all off, he was an Asian guy. And had a killer sardonic sense of humor, a thousand megawatt smile, and really eye-catching hand mannerisms. Women just self-destructed around him and ended up in his bed. I had several people tell me he wasn't all that attractive in the face, but that didn't stop a lot of really sexy and beautiful girls being major fans.

If you lack any strong identities, or have too many competing identities of roughly equivalent levels, you'll usually end up shuffled away into a "general" category (like "regular guy") because nothing in particular sticks out about you that would make you get stereotyped as "different." So, if you want to take advantage of one of the more sexually favorable identities, that frequently requires developing one of these enough that people begin to recognize you as it.

Shifting - yes, you can, though you will generally have a "base persona" that shines through. Hugh Jackman plays the tough guy (and occasionally the romantic lead), but I bet you 10 bucks he's still pretty grizzled when he goes home to the wife and kids - people's personas on-screen only change too much. He doesn't carry the metal claws back home with him, but he's still Hugh Jackman. It's not so much that the actor becomes the character (although in really intense study, this can happen to an extent) so much as it is that the way the actor portrays the character is in a way that is shades of his own personality. e.g., compare an original movie with a remade version of it - two different actors playing a role two different ways, based on their own base personalities (with some modifications). It's generally very taxing to try to shift TOO much between personalities... you can make subtle shifts (e.g., I "turn on" the charm when I go out to meet girls or to socialize, and have had women remark that I seem much more charismatic when out in public networking and talking and chatting than I do when I'm just sitting around the house in my robe, lounging [to which I say, "Of course! There's a lot more to engage my attention there..."]), but going from, say, athlete in one circle to intellectual in another, while it can be done, is a bit more challenging.

Chase

Royce's picture

Girl


Chase, great article and thanks for the extensive and deeper understand and analysis of the topic. My question is that I talked to a girl for a couple of minutes who is in my campus once because it was a educational event(etc) then we parted our own ways and I only see her walking around sometimes but we have no classes and she's usually with her friend, so how should I start talking to her? I'd really appreciate the advice and thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Girl

Author

Royce-

When a girl's walking with a friend, your highest percentage shot is approaching with a wingman, generally; go in with something indirect, make conversation with both girls, bring the wingman in once both girls are comfortable with you, and then get walking somewhere the four of you, and try to pair off with your girl and leave your friend with his.

Another (far more limited) option is catching up with both girls and inviting both to a party... but, you need to have access to a party (or be throwing one yourself) for that to be a choice.

One that's often very good most of the time if you're by yourself without a wingman is catching up with both girls, hitting it off with them, and then taking BOTH of them to go get food with you... but I think you're in high school if I recall right, and if you're seeing them in, say, the corridor, that's not really an option, and I'm not really sure if there's a way you can modify that for that scenario. Might be, but you'd have to see if you can come up with something that works under those circumstances.

The lowest percentage one is just walking up and opening direct; the girls will laugh, but this rarely goes your way. Again, might be different in high school when girls are less experienced, but at least post high school this one's pretty low percentage - unless you're a dreamboat with flawless execution on the approach, the girl has too much to risk socially from going for it, and too much to gain from turning to her friend after you leave and saying, "Wasn't that cute? What a sweetheart!" and now she looks like she has her own fan club.

Chase

lucifer's picture

But for a phone number...


.. Very interesting, that's been my experience as well so far.

However you seem to be mostly talking about "moving right away", but what about a phone number?

Chances might be lower but that's very limiting, when I go out I can see more potential targets with a friend than by themselves.

Any good way on how to get out with a contact from a girl who's in a group of 2/3 (bigger groups I wouldn't dare in day time so far and I supposed chances would be even slimmer).

Adam Malek's picture

Good morning, Mr. Amante. I


Good morning, Mr. Amante.

I am sorry for not commenting on anything this article refers to. I wanted to ask you a question to have a better understanding. I just read an article about being nervous around women and there was a tip to focus on fundamentals first. So I clicked the link on fundamentals section but there are a lot of articles about that. Like 8 pages with 10 articles on each one. So I should read these first? Or else, what exactly are fundamentals? Those techniques, or personality traits like the article on charm? I feel nervous around cute girls because I feel like they would not want someone like me. Would those fundamentals help me with this issue?

Thank you,
Adam

Chase Amante's picture

Fundamentals

Author

Adam-

This article (simpler) and this article (more detailed) go into fundamentals a good bit, with numerous targeted links to specific articles on these. Those might be good starts.

We also rolled out a new diagnostic quiz that lets you assess where you're at with women right now and ends with giving you a free eBook download to serve as a "Getting Started" guide to the site, including the most relevant articles for you - if you haven't checked that out yet, I'd recommend it - you can take the quiz here: Girl Skills Diagnostic Quiz.

Chase

RJ's picture

Chase, These articles are


Chase,

These articles are great, and after reading more of these articles cold approaches are working out very well. Strange that a lot of people don't do cold approaches (maybe due to fear of approach, or just fear during d daylight?)

Though with these articles, how do we use them? I mean do we HAVE to fit into one of these identities, the more articles I read on here the more confused I become and it gets very strange with articles about identity, sexual economics etc.

What is the best way to use them? The amount of things it says women like becomes longer and longer,

Chase Amante's picture

Getting Started

Author

RJ-

Check out the diagnostic quiz on this one - it and the "Guide to the Site" type eBooks that go with it were designed to address just this question (where to start with all the content on the site). There are four different possible eBooks, based on how you score on the quiz.

Chase

Art of Manliness 's picture

The Past


Hi Chase,

Great article this will help me with my results.

Chase I was wondering if you could do an article on letting go of the past. I get this fear that I would downgrade and return to my old self

I'm now attractive ( it's because of you), but it feels like I'm someone else. As if the old me wants to sneak up on the new,better me and take him away.

I fear returning to my old self: a creepy, unattractive, socially inept guy who everyone treats like an ugly disease troll!

I hated my life back then, it took me a struggling 3 years to develop an attractive, complex, confident, optimistic man (I'm still working on my social skills).

I feel like I'm not the only guy who feels this way and I think it would help a lot of guys including me.

Thanks Chase, if only you knew how helpful you are :)

Chase Amante's picture

Regression

Author

Art-

I commiserate... I can remember having that feeling for a while, back when I was first upgrading myself with women. I had a similar emotion when I was new to running my own business, and it also took a healthy chunk of time before the gnawing fear that I was going to completely fail one day and have to return to the corporate world dulled down and rationality took over (even if all my business interests went belly up at once and I somehow ran out of money and was desperate for cash, I have enough marketable skills at this point that it'd be pretty easy for me to switch to fairly high priced freelance consulting gigs to make ends meet).

There's a feeling when things are new that they can "all go away" and you'll revert back to a previous self, and I don't think that really goes away until you've simply lived long enough in the new paradigm that your mind adjusts and accepts this as its new reality. It's a process called acclimation, and it generally takes about 18 months - happens with both good and bad things (i.e., both lottery winners and people who become paraplegics are back to their pre-lottery / pre-accident levels of happiness within 18 months of the change - as if nothing had ever happened... they are then fully adapted to their new lots in life).

Anyway, I'll mark it down for an article - but trust that this is one that really only takes time (roughly, 18 months).

Chase

The M's picture

Rebels, flattery


Hi Chase,

This feels kind of like a video game, but true! :) It's basically just exploring the different facets of your personality and bringing a few of the attractive ones into sharp relief.

You mentioned that the rebel is pessimistic - does this have to be true? You've identified yourself as a rebel, but you are also a warm, uplifting guy.

One other unrelated question: how do you train yourself to be immune to (being led in the wrong direction through) flattery? I guess this is just a combination of humility and strong leadership.

Best,
The M

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Rebels, flattery

Author

M-

Rebels as pessimists... maybe a better way of describing the rebel than "pessimist" would be "vaguely fatalistic", which is what I somewhat am. I accentuate this more with women, because it's a Byronic flaw that they find extremely attractive - e.g. "Things may run well for a hundred years, or they may all come crashing down tomorrow - and none of us has any idea which one it is until the moment it happens." Girls eat that stuff up... but it's true. If you leaf back through all the predictions people have made about the future in the past, the vast majority are wildly off the mark, and the ones that are kind of on the mark are probably only there because so many predictions get made that sooner or later some of them have to be right. Monkeys mashing on keyboards, if you will. On here, I focus on more of the optimistic side of things, because I'm not trying to get anybody from the comments section into bed and me acting like a rebel on GC isn't going to impress anyone. I certainly throw in a lot of warmth and inspiration with girls too, but when you mix that in with a dash of fatalism they go nuts - "He's so REAL!" Not depressed fatalism, more along the lines of, "Do what you want, because tomorrow isn't promised (and may not even come at all)."

As for being immune to flattery... not until I got completely railroaded by an individual using flattery (which I already knew to mistrust) as a tool to undermine me did my resistance to it go to 99%. While some people compliment because they generally are sincere and grateful, most are doing it because they want something - if you need any evidence of that, just take a look at the comment sections on this site... a few guys weigh in just to pay their respects, but most start with a compliment, and end with a request - nothing wrong with that, and it's a good, thoughtful way to ask for the investment of time and energy that a comment response to the author (me, or one of the other writers here) is, but that's generally what most flattery is: the prelude to a request. Machiavelli has an entire chapter on flattery in The Prince, and it's one of the better chapters in that book, if you ask me - until you've spent much time around a true flatterer, this seems kind of overblown or overreactive to you, but once you've lived it, you start to ignore the flattery outright and cut right to the thick of what the other individual wants, and whether YOU want to give it to him (or not).

Chase

Po boy's picture

How to end my life's stagnation... ?


Yo Chase, I'd love some help

(I can't believe how huge this comment got, but I think the information might be needed)

I feel like my life is stagnating and not going anywhere, despite my best efforts to improve it. When I started taking my goals of becoming a better man and getting a girlfriend(s) seriously I stopped doing things that were "unproductive", things that didn't help me reach those goals. No TV/video games for me.

For the past few months my life has consisted of going to High School, reading Girlschase/working on fundamentals, reading/listening to philosophy, going to the mall to meet new girls on the weekends and applying for jobs. Being that getting good with girls and getting a girlfriend is the only one of my goals that feels within reach at my young age, that's what I've been focusing on.

Over the course of 10 months, I've gotten tangible improvements, I no longer have much social anxiety, I am frequently complimented on my appearance (by girls), a lot of girls seem to like me in one way or another (and I can actually have conversations with them now). But I'm still not getting what I want, all the girls I talked to and all the times I overcame my anxiety have only led to a few phone numbers and a crappy date (she auto-rejected horribly afterwards, for reasons I think I fixed).

I always have hope that the new day/week/month will bring me the results I've been working to achieve, and every time I am disappointed. Afterwards, I "realize" what I've been doing wrong....and promptly fail again the next day/week/month. It's as if getting a girlfriend is some sort of perpetually out of reach goal, which I know is ridiculous, a lot of girls respond well to me and seem attracted. But these seemingly interested girls give me some temporary hope but lead nowhere, I think I know what I'm suppose to do but it just doesn't seem to work. After most interactions, I think about what I did right and wrong and try to remember, so I've been improving.

For example, some girls give me loads of investment/compliance, they deep dive, I try to relate and I eventually ask them out in the way that is recommended by the site but they are always "busy". (I thought I might be moving too slow, but a post by Zphix on the forums about "Highschool Pick-up" told me it wasn't)

And then there's the girls that seem really interested at first but never give me any investment or compliance to work with. For example, after a few days of talking all I can get out of her is that she likes to hang out with friends and she made cookies yesterday, she won't comply with pretty much anything.

Sometimes I get temporarily upset because I see all these low-fundamental guys getting the types of girls I want so easily, while I toil away for months without getting anything worthwhile. I see an ugly low-fundamental guy I know walking behind a very attractive girl and talking to her and I think to myself "haha look at that orbital!"... next week I find out its her boyfriend. This type of stuff is making me think I'm going insane. I am one the best looking, best dressed, and hardest working (as far as improving myself with girls goes) guys at my school and I can't seem to make anything happen with girls I like (even the ones that seem to like me).

By almost every standard I can conceive of I should be cleaning up, but for some reason I am not, I feel like I'm missing a tiny but crucial piece of social information, and I have NO IDEA WHAT IT IS. Its as if I have a wall in my mind preventing me from being successful. Maybe its because my severe social anxiety in middle school prevented me from learning something that everyone else knows.

As far as cold approaching goes, I'm getting basically the same problems. Girls eagerly give me their # but are "too busy" or we set up a date,she seems excited , but it never ends up happening. I always see the mistakes I make when cold-approaching and improve, but I can only go out to cold-approach like once or twice a week and cold approaching is so hard (whining).

Basically, I feel like I should easily be getting a girlfriend any day now, but every day just leaves me slightly more experienced and substantially more disappointed. The main thing I'm doing with my life right now is improving my girlfriend getting abilities, and my progress is coming at an agonizingly slow pace and sometimes it seems like my progress means nothing because my girlfriend is nonexistent. The days keep going by while my life is going nowhere :C .....

So, do I have some sort of weird vibe problem?
Am I trying too hard??
Do girls assume I'm too good for them (probably not this one lol)???
Do I need to take on some more risk by more sexual and more overt in my interest (this one seems likely?)????
Did I just answer my own question?????

I know there's usually a stalling period before people level up, but dear god it feels like its about time for me to reach level 1.

I'm hope there's something you can tell me except "keep trying", I have no idea how you could help me with this but I guess thats exactly why I'm asking, maybe you can deduce what I'm missing. I'm sure you could at least offer me some inspiration : )

Thanks for reading my essay

Long time 's picture

Life stagnation


Hey po boy,

Just a couple thoughts on what you have wrote do not take anything personally. You have done some of the hardest parts already you have set goals and have taken action on those goals. I do think that working on your fundamentals is great and all it's good that you are seeing improvement. I do think that you need to enjoy the present moment more and need to learn how to be less outcome dependant. You need to understand you are doing this for YOU, getting a girlfriend or not is irrelevant. You must understand makin progress alone is one of the best feelings. Wether she gives you her number, goes on a date, puts out or doesn't put out it's doesn't mekenthe difference to you. Why because you are smart enough to learn where you went wrong make adjustments and move to the next only to conquour what held you back before.

Good luck,
Long time

Ps don't be so hard on yourself bro, your making improvements an that's what counts

Michal's picture

Hello, Po Boy. As the fellow


Hello, Po Boy.
As the fellow above says, I also think you made a lot of important changes already. I undersntad the situation you are in but to identify the problem, you mentioned only some information. Yet you ask all the right questions, if your vibe is off, if you are too needy. And I am sure you are on right track, because there has to be problem with basics. Like lifting while not getting bigger is usually problem with not eating enough, or not stimulating enough or not sleeping enough.

So, there are many thing, but they connect to bigger problems. Like Long Time mentioned, if you are needy, you are outcome dependand, your vibe is off, and your mental process might lack at the moment because you think "problem is this, so I must do this" while the problem is different and you are making it worse.

I would say get more reference points. If you ask some girl her opinion about you, keep in mind it is just her opinion on you while also that you can use it and generalize it for girls you behaved similar. I mean, for those soft girls, I was usually boring, becaues they wanted some adventurous guy who always does something. But I was able to guess this only with 2 girls while other 5 agreed but only to an extent.

Now, I dont want to be rude or anything, but I need to mention it. You might think you have great fundamentals, but in reality, you can be adding 30% to it, because you see all this work you put into it. Example with me - my walk. I dont "hop" up and down, I dont move to the sides with shoulders, I keep my back straight most of the time. But the way I move automatically if I dont keep it on mind was desrcribed as droopy noodle. So I started swaying my arms more and felt like an idiot but I can see more girls look at me now.
So I would suggest targeting the major, basic stuff. If you seem needy You should be more relaxed, so maybe indirect direct opener would work better for you instead of typical direct. If you seem too nice, then get nearer them and apply better voice tone and talk slower. And so on and so forth.

If you are too much in your head, it is best if you start with some great project. When I was making videos in "trailer styles", all I was thinking about was what scenes do I put there, and what music would go best with this kind of feeling. It works, because when you see a girl you want to approach, you wasted most of the mental energy on the thinking about your project and now you are there and you want to meet the girl. So you stop and just focus on that girl for a moment. Then, you get her number, couple of minutes thinking about how you will continue but THEN you are back at your thoughts about your awesome project. This worked for me with presentations for my classes and such.

Or maybe the problem is similar to my problem. I was so focused on my long-term goals, my best friends were 2-3 years older than me. And their way of thinking and approach to life is different, because they transition to different stages while I am still "there". So I adapted to them IN SOME WAYS while to people of my age I seem boring. Like really boring. But lifestyle boring because every day I keep streching, exercising, reading, learning, working or talking with people about non-daily things. They are glad to meet me but not really want spend time with me. And I think high school people are 100% oriented on "now".

Thing is, I somehow managed to get 25 years old girlfriend (I am 22), because as she said to me, I was honestly told her, what I wanted and she knew she could offer that to me. I am with her for 2 months now and I feel my lifestyle seems to bore her but the important thing is, I got together with her despite all that. This is about keeping her. I sure got lucky as hell, because since my 7 I have traumatic fear of physical contact with girls but she was patient enough for me to get used to it. It took me a year. I found this site in October 2012. And another important part is... yes, I was looking for someone very specific, but at the end, she is just a girl. And girls usually want same things and maybe the way they get to it is a little bit different. And only reason they want someone different is because they are on different level.

And when I approached, I told myself a story after failed approach."Ah, let's see if she has it, my blue rabbit." Then I failed horribly, my thoughs about what went wrong kicked in and then I saw another girl. So I just told myeslf "Ok, this one did not have him, so let's that girl over there." And once I accidentaly opened a girl with "Hi, do you have the blue rabbit? I am looking for it." Thing is, you know, or at least believe it, that for some girl you will be the greatest person in the world. And the difference between her and other girls is that is that they are not her.

Michal

Chase Amante's picture

Stagnation

Author

Po Boy-

You already have some great replies here, so I won't go too much more into detail... and I'm not an expert on dating in high school, so there's a limit to how valuable my thoughts here might be.

But, there's one thing I've found that's always served very well, whenever trying to assess guys succeeding more than I am in any given field, including getting girls: what's this other guy doing / having going on for him that I do not, and can I mimic it?

e.g., you see an ugly guy with a really pretty girl... why? What's different about him? Dismissing it as "he SHOULDN'T be able to have her - I'm better in every way!" misses the point - he DOES have her, which means he's doing something you're not. Maybe he has a killer sense of humor and busts on her and gets her to laugh at herself. Maybe he exudes sexuality, and she gets very excited around him. Maybe he's a master of social pressure, and he gets her qualifying herself to him very quickly and feeling nervous that she may not be good enough for him, while around you she feels completely at ease, no social pressure, and thus doesn't come to view you as an authority figure, or anything other than her "equal" - more suited to a friend role than a dominant lover one.

My suspicion would be one of those - if you're attractive, well-dressed, and good at conversation, it's usually going to be some lack of dominance / social pressure / sexuality / sexual teasing and flirting... all the stuff that takes you from "attractive" to "exciting". See also the articles on edge, attitude, and Byronic vulnerabilities.

Basically, see if you can be not just a good-looking option to women, but an out-and-out exciting one, too. That may be the difference you're missing.

Chase

Ashu's picture

Most practical article...!


Hey chase,
This was one of the most practical article ever as people connect to you due to your identity. So if we are able to develop a range of identities than i believe its possible to connect with a broad range of people and differrent types of women ranging from party girls to real ladies.

Anonymous's picture

Chase very interesting


Chase very interesting article.I seem to have indulged in most of these identities throughout my life,and this article could't have come at a better time. I think pinpointing your identity determines the path you take in life.Finding your true self and being your true self is important for self confidence.It's the whole reason for that "Who are You" song.

How many of these identities is it possible to maintain at once?

Can you be taken seriously if your primary identity is an artist,and your secondary is tough or athlete?

Is there a way to be the strengths of all the identities,without being the weaknesses of the identities?

Chase Amante's picture

Identity Combinations

Author

Anon-

I'd say it's generally best to have one strong primary identity, a moderate secondary one, and maybe some light tertiary and quaternary identities, but those latter oughtn't be too strong. If you have more than a handful of clear identities, they stop being clear at all, and end up being a confusing mishmash that gets you tossed into a "general" category, like "regular guy."

Artist-athlete or artist-tough is one I think is usually a little too difficult to pull off, since the two are typically polar opposites - artist means "sensitive", while tough / athlete means "not sensitive", usually. There are exceptions to everything though, and you might be able to pull it off if you can find a way to make the two gel - e.g., an athlete who makes art in some kind of physical or rebellious way, like shooting paintballs at a canvas, or is a graffiti artist, etc. Primary artist secondary athlete I'm failing to come up with anything that would seem like a congruent example, but I'm sure they're out there.

As for the strengths of all but weaknesses of none - not that I know of. You take the bad with the good - you can combine several identities and mollify some of the downsides, but you do also lose some of the edge. Many of the most successful people you'll meet are highly stereotypical, and don't worry about their downsides because they're more focused on maximizing their upsides. When you focus too much on reducing downside, you tend to trend toward the middle - no major risks, but no great rewards, either.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Is this girl playing hard to get, should I introduce jealousy?


Hi Chase!

There is a chinese girl from china in my masters program. First time I asked her out and she at first said, "I am busy this week, lets decide about it next week". Then next week, she seems excited to meet up. After 4 days after the first date, I texted her again for dinner (I did so because I was swamped and she was swamped with tests too so felt like no point in contacting her immediately).

To this, she replies:

"I have an exam in one hour, I think I can contact you later after the exam. :)"

Now, I replied about 6 hours later,

"Hey not a problem, didnt have my phone with me(to explain lag in communication), hope ur exam went well!"

Now, she hasnt responded for about a day now. In your opinion, is this girl playing hard to get or just not very interested? I have been able to come off as very attractive and so I believe the attraction issue isnt really there.

On the other hand, we have these weekly group dinner functions she wanted to invite me to, would it be a good idea to invite a friend of mine who is also very very attractive to the function to create jealousy? Thanks Chase!

Chase Amante's picture

Girl

Author

Anon-

It's always hard to read for sure, especially when there's a potential language barrier, but it just sounds like she really isn't all that interested. That said, if texting isn't working, you can always try giving her a phone call and trying to rebuild her interest and ramp up her excitement over the phone - if you're good with phone and have a good voice, this is doable (even if you end up leaving a voicemail - if your voice is sexy and your conversation is easy, she'll be intrigued all over again listening to the message).

As the commenter below remarked, I'd probably stay away from jealousy plotlines here - they work wonders with Western women, who quickly sideline men as inherently low value if they move a little too slow or don't make things happen, but most Asian women from Asia view men as naturally strong / dominant, and will auto-reject and write you off as a player and lose interest fast in my experience if you try running jealousy plotlines. The exception is with very dynamic Asian women from Asia who are more sexually experienced - they can behave a lot more like Western women in this regard.

Chase

Petr's picture

passive-aggressive pushover-ness


Hello,
is there a way to break free from identities that are not masculine? I think the only one here you mentioned is a regular guy because student will eventually end his educational stage.
I have recently read an interesting article about how modern society is emasculated. And how boys who do not have an autoritative figure or a man based on whom they can model themselves, they become pushovers and then women have no interest in them sexually. I am one of those guys now, my mother raised me into a too comfy person. I do not leave my comfort zone that much, but that is different thing.
I just wanted to ask how should I behave and act if I want to break free from being this passive-aggressive pussy?
I dont think becoming a firefighter will make me tougher and that I will adapt on the way.

Thank you in advance.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: passive-aggressive pushover-ness

Author

Petr-

Yes, pretty common for the majority of men to be rather retreating / unmasculine, and actually quite common in a lot of societies - it's not merely a plague of the West, nor even a recent phenomenon. Women have always liked the bad boy because he's always been a rare breed - the majority men across most culture and time periods seem to simply end up pursuing a strategy of "keep your head down, don't cause too many ripples, and do what you know how to do and trust it will bring you good things." The one exception is in anarchistic states, where men revert to a more primal "battle it out for supremacy" type state - you see this in lawless areas like parts of Africa or Latin America, or poorer parts of the former Soviet bloc in Eastern Europe / Northern Asia, and even in American ghettoes. The American West is another example of a classically very masculine society - contrast that with aristocratic Europe at the time or not so long before, with nobles who powdered their faces and wore wigs and, for all intents and purposes, tutus. In more civilized countries, most men stick to the system and dial back their aggressiveness, because the potential risks of going against the established way things are done can be great (as, however, can be the potential rewards).

The only way to learn how to be more naturally dominant and assertive in pursuing what you want is by breaking the rules, being pushy, and grasping aggressively for what you want. Obviously, don't do anything dangerous or illegal, but you will have to go a little too far into "asshole" territory in order to learn where the outer bounds are, before you can come back and be a guy who's simultaneously firm, solid, and assertive, but also warm, graceful, and genuine.

A few good articles to start with on the site would be these:

Chase

MachinePlayer's picture

Identity of the classical musician…


Greetings!

Thought this was a fantastic article! I've been perusing this site for over a year now and finally took the membership plunge last month. I've actually been a sort of "holy man" wannabe most of my life, and it is a persona I very much want to break. My career is in classical violin performance, and I have held position in a prestigious, major orchestra for ten years now. My question is: where exactly do you think the identity of a classical musician falls in all these categories? Of course, "artist" naturally comes to mind, but I've never considered this career a "rock star" style either (more like artist+intellectual+holy man). I've actually covered up what I do with a lot of women I meet lately for fear of appearing too "rare" or unattainable, but maybe I ought to be using my classical artistry as an asset with women? Apologies if I should have introduced myself with a post like this over in the forums section. Thank you in advance for any thoughts!

Sincerely,
Jeremy

My CPU is a neural net processor­­­­— a learning computer. The more contact I have with women, the more I learn.
Mission: infiltrate secret society and overcome female resistance.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Identity of the classical musician…

Author

Jeremy-

Welcome aboard. That's actually an interesting one, and it's one you almost doubtless can use to your advantage, actually. I've known a few classically trained pianists who used piano as their lures to get women into bed... a former roommate of mine was a beautiful piano player, and his "game" consisted of talking girls into coming over to his house, then playing piano for them... clothes came off fast after that. Ricardus, one of our previous writers on the site, is a classically trained pianist who used to perform semi-professionally, and used to have girls come to his shows sometimes if he wanted to make getting them in bed especially easy.

I'd probably mention that, then downplay it so you don't seem too unapproachable / unattainable - "Ah, no, it's just a job. It's a NICE job, and I'm happy to be doing that and not be stuck in a cubicle all day, but it's not so different from crunching numbers or pushing papers. You just get to be a little more inspired while at work, is all."

Then at the end of the date, ask her if she'd like to hear you play... in your home not far from the sofa or bed, of course.

Chase

MachinePlayer's picture

Thank you, Chase!


Chase–

I can't express enough thanks to you and your work in this blog. I've only been a member for 5 weeks, and I just had the first date of my life last week– at 34 years old, yikes! I took all your instruction from the POF article, set up my first online dating profile with all the types of pictures (professional-looking shots I took myself with some personal Photoshop work: one with my cat, one looking down and away without smiling, and one with the almost cropped out girl), as well as your articles on facial hair, fashion (tighter clothing), body posture, and male scent, to name a few. I've gone from 15 years of no female contact ("holy man") to having the first three dates of my life last week! The very first was a cute, athletic blonde who practically attacked me in her car in a steamy make-out session– came out of no where! My head is still spinning that these wonderful things are actually happening to me… Then I took your advice about playing for her, so for a second date, I got her a ticket to one of our concerts in a seat close to the stage. After the concert, I took her to a lounge across the street where she payed for our wine, and then we talked for around two hours. By then it was midnight, I invited her to my place, but she said it was getting too late… thinking I missed the window of escalation, being that I probably should have suggested leaving the lounge after the first drink to go to my place. Clumsy noob here, but rolling with the punches– onward and upward, right?! Does it sound possible to reignite the intimacy spark with this girl?

Either way, I'm rapidly working at building abundance, mainly through POF, but also started grabbing some numbers in bars for the first time ever, and I have a few more dates coming soon this and next week– have a lot of lost time to make up for here! ;-) Even started dabbling in daytime cold approach… like a hungry tiger that's just been uncaged… thank you again!!

Warm regards,
Jeremy

My CPU is a neural net processor­­­­— a learning computer. The more contact I have with women, the more I learn.
Mission: infiltrate secret society and overcome female resistance.

Anonymous's picture

Jealousy and a girl is resisting.


Hi Chase,

I have a question regarding jealousy and asian women.

There is a chinese girl in my graduate degree program who I could tell had some interest in me at first. I cut off contact and asked her out a month later because I was legitimately busy.

She at first had some hesitation, but agreed enthusiastically. After the date, I didnt follow up with her till 4 days later because she was extremely busy with exams.

After I asked her out for dinner,

she replied about 24 hours later:

"Sorry I dont think I have time this week. Thanks for asking me ^-^"

I currently have been able to get a lot of girls attracted to me and have been dating around. I believe the problem here isn't my level of attractiveness but rather either autorejection, loss of interest in me, or her just playing games.

Would it be a good idea to wait until Monday to ask her out again?

Also, she and others usually go to weekly dinners which I dont attend (to not get friendzoned).

I have an extremely attractive friend who I have built sexual tension with, would it be a good idea to bring my friend there or would it cause her to autoreject (if she hasnt already?) Thanks Chase!

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