Why the Status of Women You Sleep with Matters in Social Circle

A few weeks back, I asked newsletter subscribers who’d been using Girls Chase material to send in details about their journeys doing so, that I might start building some case studies to use in some upcoming offerings and marketing material. I’ve been working my way through all these case studies – it’s been pretty intensive work – but it’s been interesting and reading so many success stories is heartening.

One that I just finished responding to was from a reader in Mumbai, India, in his late twenties and originally from Delhi. He’d been attending a salsa class in Mumbai, and had his sights set on a beautiful young female college student in the class, but had been blocked by her close friend who wanted him instead (but who wasn’t as cute).

So, rather than pursue a girl whose friend wanted him, which was going to be dicey, he followed the advice of a buddy of his and slept with a sexy MILF in the class instead – who rapidly became addicted to sleeping with him, and who then, in order to scare off some of the competition for his flirtations, let it slip to the other women in the class that he was a playboy and they should all “be careful” if they didn’t want to get their hearts broken. As it turned out, this was a great play by her to limit his options with the other girls there and keep him for herself.

social circle status

Because while our reader figured at first this would be good for him – after all, preselection is the greatest aphrodisiac – the opposite happened, and the college girls and some others started cooling off toward him, gossiping about how he could “sleep with her.”

He ended up throwing the towel in on the college girl he liked, and leaving that class (and the MILF... though he left the option open to her to sleep with him again, if she’d get her friend, a former Miss India contestant, to double up on him together with her – no word on whether that’s going down just yet) to go seek greener pastures elsewhere. It was too bad it didn’t work out, he said, but it was a good experience regardless.

What got him in the end here though was the gossiping of the woman he was sleeping with, or her jealousy – it was the social rank of her compared to the other girls in class.

social circle status

As you doubtless know if you’ve been reading here for any length of time, I have little patience personally for the constant status-jockeying that goes on in any fair-sized social circle of men and women (it certainly happens in all-male circles too, but throw women into the mix and you’re in a whole ‘nother ballpark).

As I discussed in “Social Circle vs. Cold Approach”, and more recently in “True Freedom Means Many Weak Ties and Few Strong Ones”, if you want to be free to meet and date any girl that you want, you probably won’t have that level of freedom inside any but the best of social circles.

In all mature social circles, there will tend to be:

  1. An alpha male and an alpha female (the #1 male and #1 female)
  2. A beta male and a beta female (the #2 male and females)
  3. A gamma male and a gamma female (the #3 male and females)

... and then everyone else, fairly loosely configured.

The level of social stratification in a circle is mostly dependent on how mature it is; a very mature social circle may well have 5+ levels of stratification at the top, with alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and epsilon males and females, while everyone else is of lesser importance; a sufficiently new social circle may not have any stratification at all yet (but it will soon).

Alternately, you can get groups with lots of churn and just a few key members; e.g., a group that has two consistent male members occupying the alpha and beta roles, such as a duo of nightclub promoters who work together, while a collection of other men flits in and out of the group in sub-roles to the alpha/beta pair. Meanwhile, this same group may roll out with a far more consistent female contingent, and have alpha, beta, gamma, and delta females occupying the five top spots.

There’s not a huge degree of difference between the roles at the top – in gorilla studies, alpha, beta, and gamma males all have the same reproductive success, and in humans this seems to be true too – a girl’s just as likely to go for the group’s gamma as she is its alpha, and won’t make too much of a distinction between the two (note: if you’re a manosphere reader or a post-2010ish PUA student, these terms might have different meanings for you – we’re going off the ethological definitions here, rather than the rather bastardized manosphere versions of them, which hold no relation to the meanings of the terms in ethology).

However... in new social circles, when roles have not been assigned yet... everything tends to be something of a crap shoot, and women are not sure who you are just yet.

So instead of figuring out which nuanced role you occupy, they tend to look at things from a more black-and-white perspective: are you a top male – a potential alpha/beta/gamma – or are you a bottom male, one of the omegas that no girl will touch... a creepy guy unworthy of sexual attention?

Who you go for, and how she responds, is the key to girls figuring this out.

Early Stage Social Circles: The Frontier

I think of early stage social circles as being something of a frontier: filled with unclaimed social territory, but also cutthroat, deadly, and lawless.

You might stake your claim on a position in the hierarchy one day, only to have a better equipped competitor ride in and knock you out of your boots the very next day.

The first time you show up at a university as a new undergraduate student it’s like this. College girls are never as sexually liberal (and easy) as they are in their first semesters as university freshmen – you might be surprised how many girls will tell you they lost their virginities midway through their freshman year of college (then went on to tack on a number of new lovers in a hurry after this). It’s extremely common.

As their college careers progress, however, the girls begin behaving more and more conservatively. Why? Because they’ve settled into social hierarchies – and they’re no longer anonymous, and their actions are no longer free of social repercussions.

social circle status

Whereas a freshman girl can sleep with whomever she wants and not worry about what anyone thinks because everyone around her is a stranger, a girl who’s in her fourth year at university is surrounded by people who know her very well, and everywhere she goes she runs into friends and acquaintances. Over the course of those four years, she’s gone from “surrounded by sexy strangers!” to “I’d better be careful about what (and whom) I do, because EVERYONE will find out about it after.”

The same thing happens on new projects at work with a group of new and unknown colleagues... or new social club or networking events that’ve just started up with crowds that will know each other quite well in the future, but are all strangers right now... with cruise ships, with young people’s vacation tours (or tours for older singles, too)... with salsa classes, like that of our reader who submitted his case study to me.

When everyone’s a stranger, it’s no-holds-barred, do-whatever-you-want, hands-in-the-air sexy time... but nobody stays strangers with a group of people they keep running into for long.

Early Stage Social Circle Status: Wet Cement

All that early social circle stuff swirling around in a new circle is essentially wet cement: it’s pliable and shapeable early on, but once the air’s hitting it, it’s well on its way to hardening – and once hardened, you’re almost certainly not going to be able to change it.

That’s why people go to their 30 year high school reunions, and the popular jock who’s now a janitor with an obese wife is still higher status in that group than the quiet nerd who’s since become a mega rich startup founder with a trophy wife – everywhere else in the world, the janitor merits no consideration whatsoever next to the success story, but mixed back into the old group again, the divergence of their paths means nothing, and the former jock still feels like one of the top guys, and the former nerd still feels like one of the guys at the bottom.

Once your status in a certain group is formed, it’s formed. You can try to change it slowly from the inside over time, and you may... but it’s typically better to just trash pail a group you’ve mucked things up with and go join or start another group and do things right next time.

A new social circle, joined or built, where you do things right from the beginning to establish yourself as a high status man can be formed very quickly, often in a matter of weeks; climbing to the top of a circle where you have already established yourself at or near the bottom, alternately, is a very long, very slow climb – usually one that will take years, if not far longer.

You can join a new circle and quickly get set up as the gamma male and be cleaning up in top quality girls, or you can try to climb up to that role from a bottom role in the circle, and maybe in a few years you will get there... but probably not. Even if you have all the skills and attributes to do so.

Why’s it even matter, you might say?

I thought it was possible to get any girl, never mind social status?

Why yes, it is; so long as you are not in a social circle, and instead are operating as a nomad from outside the circle.

When you’re a nomad – when you’re not actually part of a circle; you’re not involved in it, and don’t socialize regularly with any of the other members – you’re a question mark; an enigma. You can be intriguing and exciting and filled with sexual potential for all the women within that circle – you’re someone unknown, that they can project their fantasies onto.

Yet, the moment you begin integrating into said circle, your status within that circle starts becoming increasingly set – and that dramatically affects how well you do with women inside the circle... and which women you get.

social circle status

Back in the mid-2000s, I was playing around with social circle game, and I started noticing something curious. When I attracted the alpha female of a group first, all the other women subsequently started flirting with me and competing for me.

Yet, if I went for one of the lesser girls, the alpha female would often treat me with disinterest or occasionally outright disdain, and any of the girls between her and the level of the girl I was going for would snub their noses toward me. Meanwhile, the girls beneath the girl I was going for in the hierarchy would still be nice, and sometimes flirty.

I started talking to friends about this: female friends, male ones, even female relatives.

And what I discovered was that there was a consistent pattern: women chased feverishly after whatever male the top girls in a group expressed interest in or dated.

If a girl was an alpha, beta, or gamma female, and she started dating a guy or let it slip that she was interested in a guy, it wasn’t too uncommon for every other girl ranking beneath her to start climbing over one another to try and land that guy.

It was preselection in action, but not just any preselection; this was rank-based preselection.

Because I almost never found instances of higher-ranking females taking lower-ranking females love or sex interests. In fact, if a higher ranking woman liked a man, and then he dated or slept with a girl who ranked lower than in her in her hierarchy, she lost interest.

Preselection is not an entirely independent variable, it seemed.

It was rank-dependent.

How Women Form Ranks

If you don’t know much about how women socialize, you probably don’t realize how brutal and ruthless they are in their forming of social ranks. Girls use cliques and “in groups” to help enforce ranks, and punish uppity individuals or individuals who reflect poorly upon the group by ostracizing them, shutting them out in the cold. A girl has no greater fear or danger than being given the boot from the “in crowd” socially once she’s in it. Colt talked about some of this ruthlessness in “What Causes Girl Fights and Female Competition?

Female rank isn’t determined solely by looks. While you will rarely have an outright ugly women as the group leader, the odds that the alpha female of a group is the hottest female in the group are probably no greater than chance (or perhaps less than chance; quite a lot of very pretty girls aren’t cutthroat or covetous of status enough to pull out all the stops to be the leaders of their groups and maintain that position).

However, looks are a part of this. Social intelligence is an even greater part of this (and here’s where looks help most; the most beautiful girls tend to get the greatest number of social opportunities, thus, the more attractive a girl is, the more likely she’ll be to have a higher social IQ).

Women form ranks the same way that men do – early on into the formation of a social circle, the “cool girls” start to figure out who one another are: they’re all the girls who are

  1. Attractive
  2. Confident
  3. Socially savvy
  4. Connection builders
  5. Not loners / lone wolves

Meanwhile, the rest of the women there will tend to hang back, unsure of themselves and not wanting to chance talking to other girls and getting rejected. While they hang back, the pretty, confident girls start complimenting each other, thanking each other for the compliments, getting into small talk, and forming bonds.

social circle status

Before long, a rough “cool girls’ clique” has been formed, and it sucks in a few less confident but still attractive and cool-enough girls to round out the membership. Other cliques then begin forming of girls who define themselves as “not the cool girls” but who have something else in common – they’re all professionals, or all live near the beach, etc.

The various cliques have their own ranks relative to one another – the cool girls’ clique is the alpha clique, the “girls who just want to have fun” clique is the beta clique, the “bad girls” clique is gamma maybe, the girls who love sports are delta, the artsy girls epsilon, etc. And within each of these cliques, there are hierarchies of individual women.

The important thing to note is this: this clique-forming and social ranking occurs in EVERY social circle situation out there, without exception.

The cliques won’t always be the same – there won’t always be a group of girls who love theater, or are into volleyball, for example – but the process is the same: all humans form hierarchies as they start getting familiar with each other.

And the reason this is important for you to know is this: if you sleep with a girl beneath another girl’s rank, you communicate to that higher ranking girl that YOUR social level is about equivalent to the rank of that lower-ranking girl’s.

Locking Ranks or Unlocking Them?

You can think of sleeping with girls in a social circle as something that has a cascading effect: the effects cascade upwards, locking up all girls above her, and the effects cascade downwards, unlocking the girls beneath her.

And it’s not just sex, though sex is the biggest one. Any clear activity by you (calling a girl, texting her, chasing after her, asking other girls where she is because you’re trying to find her) that’s directed at securing you more time or attention from her is a clear signal that you are pursuing a mating opportunity with her.

When you’re of unfamiliar rank to a girl – because she hasn’t known you long enough yet to figure out where you rank, usually – she’ll go off of rough clues to try and decide where you fall in the male social hierarchy. That’s why things like fundamentals and preselection are so powerful – if you’re clearly an attractive guy, it’s safe to say that you know women and take care of yourself, so she assumes you probably do well with women (assumed preselection). And if she sees other unknown-but-pretty girls talking to you, she assumes they must be high status and that you must be too to command their attention.

Yet, once you start interacting with girls she KNOWS, she’s able to abandon these “rough guess” tools for discerning your social rank and go off a much more reliable tool – the kinds of girls you go for yourself.

If you are being received well by and sleeping with women who are higher status than she is, a girl is going to say, “Oh. Wow. He’s quality.” At this point, the only thing you have to worry about is attainability; so long as you stay out of auto-rejection, you can get this girl at some point if you like – she views you as higher status and sexually desirable, and by her witnessing the warm reception of her higher status friend and/or hearing about you sleeping with her, you have essentially unlocked this lower status girl as a potential sex partner.

Unfortunately, the reverse is also true.

If a girl sees you pursuing and/or hears about you sleeping with another girl whom she knows to be lower status than her (from a lower rank clique, or ranking beneath her in her own clique), now your problem isn’t attainability – it’s value.

You’ve demonstrated that you are a lower value male than she is a female – and thus, you aren’t really an option for anything she might want you for.

And just like that, you’ve effectively locked her off from yourself as an option.

You can still go down the ladder and sleep with lower status girls... but you probably can’t go up.

Rank Tech

If you’re planning on being in a social circle for a while, it’s often very helpful to get the lay of the land before you start pursuing girls or sleeping with them. If you sleep with a lower ranking girl too quickly, you can set yourself up for a lot of frustration later on.

Conversely, if it’s enough of a free-for-all in the beginning that no one really knows each other, it’s fine to sleep with a bunch of different girls quickly so long as you don’t maintain ongoing sexual relationships with them.

The rule of social rank and sexual relationships is this: the more you invest in a girl, the more tied to her rank you become.

So, if a mid-level girl chases after you and you sleep with her, a high ranking girl will view that as a stain on your record for consideration as a candidate for her, but not a full black mark.

Alternately, if you chase down that girl yourself, and then keep her on as a friend with benefits for a time, you’re deemed to be not much higher rank than her.

And if you keep her as a girlfriend, you’re assumed to be at her rank or perhaps a bit below.

Therefore, when you find yourself in a group you will potentially be in for a while, unless everyone there is a COMPLETE stranger with no one else they are friends with to gossip among, I recommend sticking to the following initial process:

  1. Get the lay of the land, while perhaps sleeping with a few of the cuter girls discreetly, if you can manage it. Make sure these girls don’t have anything funny or weird about them that’s going to make them lower status later on.

  2. Get seen relatively early on with a very pretty girl from outside the group – and one the group’s not likely to see or run into again. This keeps your mystery up, and allows you to build preselection with an out-group female that no one can quite pin the rank of – and since people believe in potential even more than what they already know, they will tend to assume she’s at whatever the highest normal rank might be for a girl of her looks, bearing, and fashion sense (so make sure you pick someone sexy so that the girls will assume she’s an elite girl – and you are an elite man).

  3. Once the alpha female emerges, get on her good side. You probably won’t want to sleep with her, as she often won’t be the hottest girl there, and, being aware of her position, she’s usually going to slow game you and work for a committed relationship out of you if you try (the alpha female in most larger groups will typically go for more traditional relationships, since she’s a more public figure and her actions are being scrutinized more than anyone else’s). However, once the other girls see her flirting with you, this unlocks every girl beneath her in the hierarchy.

  4. Additionally: you’d do well to become good friends with her – maybe get a coffee with her, go running with her from time to time, chat about life, etc. Once you’re friends with the alpha female, you can work the rest of the hierarchy with impunity, and unless she’s a complete prude, the alpha female will just laugh at your antics and egg you on. She essentially serves as a “scrambler” that makes it impossible for other girls in the hierarchy to accurately gauge your rank, but they all assume that because you and the alpha female are close you must be good, even if you’ve slept with a few lower-ranking girls.

  5. Remember too to avoid becoming a fixture in the lives of any girls you aren’t sleeping with yet but would like to, and don’t deep dive girls you want to sleep with until right before you’re going to pull them. See this article for more on this: “The Secret to Hooking Up with Friends.”

  6. Lastly, discretion’s a big part here too: while all girls will talk, much of the talking that happens comes when a girl thinks people are going to find out anyway, so she goes and covers the bases by getting her own story out there first. If you’re sufficiently discreet, and she doesn’t think there’s going to be any follow up or any shot at a relationship, you and her may well be the only ones who ever know anything happened, and the impact on your ability to move up or down the social chain may be nil.

If you want a short, simple tip, it’s this: become close friends with the alpha female of every group you’re in. If you can pull this off, it just makes everything that much easier.

Moral of the Story: Do Cold Approach

Well, not really... but yeah. Probably do that.

Either that or find a social circle with high churn / lots of new girls jumping in or rotating in who are on the periphery of the circles of girls you know from the group.

Social circle can be a lot of fun, and it’s a great learning experience. And for many guys, it’s plainly the most viable option – if you live in a small town, or you’re a shy guy, social’s often going to be your only real option outside of online dating.

However... if you don’t like dealing with politics too much, I recommend you try your hand at cold approach, at least a little bit. I realize it seems scary, but once you’ve got 20 approaches under your belt I guarantee you’ll never want to go back, except for brief swims in the pool of social circle every now and again for laughs.

Anyway, if you are going to do social circle, mind the ranks of the girls you’re flirting with, hitting on, dating, and sleeping with, as social circle is the opposite of cold approach, in that you aren’t doing your thing in a vacuum – each new girl you interact with ripples on to affect your future interactions.

So, do what you can to ensure that those ripples are affecting you in favorable ways... not unfavorable ones.

Rather than go in slipshod and willy-nilly with your approaching and seducing, view social circle as a puzzle to be put together, with a goal of getting all the pieces in place to unlock as many girls within your circle as possible.

In social circle, status is king – and the status of the girls you go for yourself the queen to that king.


Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.


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Hector Castillo's picture

You already know I'm all over this one, Chase ;)

Masterful understanding of group dynamics.

However, one contention - in the few weeks that I've been applying some of these tactics (most notably, not going after anyone too unattractive/low status and just flirting with anyone, but never publicly chasing), I've noticed a substantial difference in the reception of my man-whore reputation.

What do you think the diminishing returns on status-alteration are? If you work your way up the ladder, falter a bit, encounter some pervasive criticism, but recognize the slippage and radically shift your approach (more "chill" and acceptable to small social circle game), is it possible to regain status at a non-glacial pace?

If this is vague, I can quantify this a bit - can you go from Alpha to Gamma but return to the Alpha position via the aforementioned tactics?

- Anatman

Want to make her wet? I'll show you how.

David Riley's picture

Hey Anatman,

Chase has me helping out on the comments on the site. What you describe sounds like a slippery slope and will lead to very snotty remarks from the group. Some may use it to mock you and say, "I bet you sleep with anyone don't you." It will increase your odds as being a player within the group. It may also cause other girls to have buyers remorse. On a positive note, if the girl can only say how good in bed you are then you should have no worries. Sooner or later queen bee will want to know for herself how good you are. I would highly recommend going the more discreet route if possible.

Take care,

Just Dave

Inferno's picture

In my school social circle, I noticed that there are different "sects" of students. I'm not sure which is exactly at the top; The ghetto people, who are doing drugs and don't care about their future, or the 4.0 students.
there are not that many attractive girls in my school, at least not to me, because, they are overweight, have a dental problem like their teeth sticking out, or don't know how to take care of their weave. I feel like most of my aquantinces don't have much social savy , they like to talk about internet memes and video games, or how much they like the one female in my immediate circle.

I mainly get by approaching college girls, who I am surrounded by. Wayne state, CCS, University of Detroit Mercy.

Anonymous's picture

Hello Chase!
Ever since i found your site i've been improving my self, my fundamentals,mindsets, in other words i've gone a long way in to becoming a sexy man. However i've encountered a "hilarious" problem..

So, getting girls interested is now something easy but the problem is i can't befriend/friendzone girls anymore. It seems i constantly exhibit a lover.bad boy attitude because i used it all the time for pickup practice. The thing is , even when i changed that and behave to women in a completely friendly way (no flirting, prideful-arrogant look etc)i can't befriend them like most guys. It seems nowadays all women are nervous around me ,both in a good (when i'm interested in them) and a bad way (when i try to be simply friendly). Why do women behave that way among higher value men, when low value men have no problem being friends with hot women?

Is this a "You can't have your cake and eat it too" thing?
I know this post is pretty ironic, but i fear this will inevitably lead to problems. For example my friends' girlfriends are pretty awkward and shy around me,even though i do absolutely nothing like flirting,showing value etc

Maybe it's just natural and expected? i don't know.
All the same i'd really like your opinion and experiences on this issue Chase.


Inferno's picture

Read ricardus's article on x factor. Or just look good. Remember sexy men get to skip steps in the seduction process.

Jack's picture

How do you identify the alpha female? As you mention, the bastardization of 'alpha' has made it difficult to really understand what that means these days?

Also, do social circles intersect, and can that affect your status in both? I'll take the example of a university course. The whole course is in effect a very large social circle, but is made up of smaller groups within it. If you're a member of a few of these smaller groups, will your status in one, effect the status in the other?

David Riley's picture

She's normally the one who all the other girls are following. She's normally placed in the middle of the group psychically because other girls will be surrounding her. She' usually the one who take her friends to the bathroom for meetings. She could also that be bossy but not always. She could also be a ball buster. Mainly see's the girl who's calling the shots and is more than likely dating the alpha of the group.

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase, could you write about how to know if you're coming off as inimidating or unfriendly, basically coming off as too aloof to girls? I feel like there are some girls that have been into me, glancing at me in class, but when I say hi to them they seem to get slightly uncomfortable. Am I just too serious or awkward?

David Riley's picture

Hey Anon,

Normally when a girl is looking at you and smiling, it's best to act on it ASAP. Because if you wait a couple days or even weeks, she may have lost her attraction for you. She'll be thinking, "Maybe he's just not into me." Then to protect her ego she'll go into auto rejection. Remember women give very subtle hints to reveal their attraction. When you don't act upon it, they just assume you don't get them and don't get women. Sucks I know. Now what you could do to get a girl reengage into you is to use an opener. "Hey saw you across the room, and wanted to say you have a nice smile. I'm Anon." This will automatically make her feel comfortable or at ease with your opener.

You want to ground your openers, and I mean you want to have an excuse to be talking to her. Women don't always know your attentions when you open them. Thus you have to make your attraction known. Other important factors to consider is your style, posture, and other useful fundamentals.

Take care,

Just Dave

Pedro Canteiro's picture

Hey Chase,

Once again, one more great post for the collection :P.

So today I've got one simple question because this one's been messing with my mind...
Should I cut my body hair (pardon my English) like cut my leg hair chest etc.

Because in one side hair is a male figure in my opinion, but I've asked some female friends about it and they tell me the don't like hairy dudes...

So what do you say? I know that you're going to publish and hairy post :P but i just want a quick yes or no.

Thx for the info again.

David Riley's picture

Hey Pedro,

Depending on where you are located in the world body hair can help or hurt you. My answer would be to simply trim your hair every so often. You don't have to eliminate your body hair completely, you just don't want to look overly hairy.

Just Dave

The M's picture

Hi Chase,

Hope everything's going well for you!

If you try to sleep/move forward with a girl in a social circle and fail, what does that do to your reputation? Does it depend on whether it was the alpha female or one of the others?

Actually, an article on calibrating your reputation (for both cold approach and social circle) - finding the balance between damaging your reputation (say at work or school), and over-protecting your reputation to the point that you can't do anything if a person you know is potentially nearby - would be cool. And it would fit nicely with your general Zen philosophy. :)

The M

David Riley's picture

Hey M,

When you mess up in a cold approach it doesn't matter because very rarely will you see the girl again. Unless she's a cashier a grocery store you frequent, works out a lot at your gym, or a bartender where you frequent. Now the benefits of cold approaching is you don't get the awkwardness you get from approaching a friend of your social circle. The reason things get awkward in a social circle is because of all the feelings girls think about during it.

"Oh man M must be really in love with me and I turned him down. He probably hates me. Oh wow what should I do. I tell him to be my friend to not make it anymore awkward."

Now that would be great if most women in your social circle could keep it cool. However once you ask a girl out or make a move on a girl in your social circle. She begins asking very differently towards you. She's more withdrawn, she makes everything awkward, she's either really nice or a tad mean. What you want to do is immediately after asking her out and getting declined say.

"Hey I know I definitely made this awkward for us, but it's okay let's just go forth as normally as we can. For now let's just be friends and I'll go find someone else. Maybe you could be my wing woman."

This does three things, restores balance, takes care of her feelings, and you may even get a female helper in the future. This is the best possible outcome for a awkward decline after asking out a female friend.

Take care,

Just Dave

Mr. Hawaii's picture

Hey chase and all the writers at GC

I've been a pupil of you all for a couple years.

I've a question not really related to this post.
When I'm with a girl, things go smoothly. Im pretty good at getting the girls I meet with.
But I have trouble dealing with non compliance. Like it completely sours my mood.
What I mean by this is like when a girl walks away without turning back to wait or brushes off something I say when in a group.
It doesn't happen often, but when it does it's like I have no defense for it.

Maybe I'm committing some sort of faux pas? Maybe a comprehensive list of common FP's and even uncommon ones that one may commit unaware to it all could come in handy.

Thanks folks

David Riley's picture

Hey Hawaii,

When asking for compliance in a group it's very important that you've already asserted yourself as a dominant person in the group already. What I mean is that if the girl doesn't know your dominant, she'll look for others in the group. If someone just jokingly hints that she shouldn't do something for you. She won't do it. Now it is very possible to get compliance very easily in a group. It comes down to a couple factors.

*Don't be pushy
*Is it mostly your friends, her friends, or a mixed group
*How confidently you say it

Women don't respect weak men, and only listen to strong men. Example of non pushy compliance would be. "Hey let me show you something over here." It's harmless all you want to do is show her something. She may decline, but all you want to do is simple go check it out yourself. "Fair enough, I'm gonna chill over there." You don't want to be upset about her decline because you were going to go over there anyway. You don't ever want to flip out or get visibly upset because that makes you look weak. Also, remember that compliance statements aren't commands. There's a difference between "Hey can you hand a napkin?" vs "Give me a napkin."

You also want to seem polite because people in groups will comment that you're ordering her around. You also want to say things loud enough that the girl will hear them. You also want to sound sure of yourself like she will do it. More likely than not she'll do it.

The M's picture

Also, I was wondering about how to manage your reputation in social circle-like situations.

For instance, if you're in a small class and you try to discreetly move forward with a girl but eventually fail, isn't there a chance she'll gossip about it to the other girls in the class she knows?

Or if you're trying to move forward with a girl who works at a small cafe, and eventually go for sex and fail, won't ALL the other girls who work there find out about it?

Same thing really for any "small" environment, including social circle.

Am I right - will all the other girls be curiously watching, asking, and finding out? If I fail, does it hurt my reputation? Is it better to go slow and be SURE if she's interested before doing something? Does any of this matter? :)

The M

David Riley's picture

When you have your fundamentals down and screen properly, this will decrease your chance of rejection. Each one of these makes sure you won't end up rejected or in the friend zone.

Sexy smile - Give her the feeling that you're a warm person.
Let her know you're strong - Your posture is very important
Screen for a boyfriend - "Are you single?" or "Who'd you come out with with?"
Curious - Just let her know that you were curious. If she has a boyfriend, ask about him. "How long have you guys been together." or "Cool, what's he like." Make a comment, "Oh he sounds like a great guy, hey I gotta get going." - Then exit

Some girls will gossip about you, I'm sure it's happen about me. I've never had girls come up to me and say, "Hey I heard Sally turned you down." This is mainly because once I get turned down, I don't show my face for about a month or a couple weeks. When I see her again, I act like it never happened. Things only matter to girls when you make it seem like it matters. Girls will normally only gossip about your approach if it was really bad. Now when you did really well she'll tell her friends but that's more along the lines of approval. Then her friends will be curious about you. So yes, girls will be curious and watching you. This is why you don't want to make it obvious you're flirting with a girl. You want it to be natural.

Take care,

Just Dave

Anonymous's picture

do girls care if i don't have my own place and try to go to theirs or somewhere else?

David Riley's picture

Girls don't care if you frame the interaction properly. If you don't have your own place escalate in your car or in a alleyway. You have to get creative. If you have a roommate or live with your folks. Invite a girl over when your parents won't be home. When going home with a girl, you can tell her "Let's head back to your place." You just want the flow of the interaction to be natural, you never want it to be awkward. Women love men who lead, and when you lead properly you can fuck in a park for all she cares.

Just Dave

Troy's picture

Chase -

After reading Ross Leon's article, "should you be lovers... or friends?" , i couldnt help but feel overexhausted with so many conflicting thoughts. Its like my head is going to explode. every article looks like a time bomb. make one mistake and you lose a girl. the bomb is like:

Dont have a sexy walk = bomb attraction gone

Lack of dominance = bomb the girl loses interest

Lack of communication skills = bomb the girl treats you like a wild dog

Dont have any friends = bomb the girl aint interested

Lack of speed = bomb attraction expires

Not putting a girl either as a friend or lover = bomb the girl avoids you

etcetera and i could go on for another 1000 times. With seduction it seems that all the work is on the man. All a average girl has to do is put on nice clothes, hair and nails and be pleasant and she gets more men like moths to a flame. a man has to do a total 1000000000 degrees re-invention of himself if he is terrible socially. Why does so much pressure go on a man? What are the things that a man cannot ( and shouldnt try to control? A man could spend all the time blaming himself for things outside his control. Its just unfair. Also, i get the vibe from reading this site that the slighest mistake is a COMPLETE LOSS. Almost like a time bomb, similar to the one in the movies!

"Oh no be careful now. I have a red, blue, and yellow wire. cut the wrong one and we are all dead."


"Do the slighest wrong thing and we lose the girl. fail to have solid fundamentals, screening the girl, and saying the exact correct thing and the girl is gone. Dont cut the wrong wire. help!"

Thats the vibes i am picking up. My head is overloaded with information and i cant focus. what to do?

A situation i have is where so many times, the beautiful, outgoing girl i want as lovers dont even look at me. I try not to put them on a pedestal. The girls i could care less about are extremely ugly unattractive ducks. I am naturally good looking and every ugly duckling who likes me would just be like a social value drain. I feel that a fat ugly girl who dresses poorly is a very bad fit for me. even though my social skills are rusty now, i know that i deserve better. I am physically fit, extremely good looking and persons tell me when i dress to go out i look damn good. I dont want a girl way beneath looks to me to be my girlfriend. The thing is that all the girls within and better looks than me is hard to get. What should i do? I dont know what to say to them. I find it easy tnd talk to the ugly girls, they even find me as charming but hot girls my tongue is all tied up. What do i do?

Back to Ross article "should you be lovers or... friends?.
Yours and his advice is contradicting. Even Peter Fontes wrote an article about sex with friends, and said that you could sleep with friends and go back to being friends afterwards, provided that you dont act different. Why all the confusion with screening a girl to see if she is a friend or lover? Why not just rely on emotions and gut feeling to pick the roles for the girls. If a girl is attractive to you and you want her as a lover then do that. If she is attractive but you just want her as a friend then do that. same as with friends. Why over complicate things? It just make things harder. Instead of getting to know a girl, the focus is on testing a girl if she can be friends. Chase, you talk about it being ok to move a girl from a friend to a lover and a lover to a friend if we slept with the girl.

Now Ross is saying that friendships break down with lovers if you switch to friends and vice versa. In "what women want" article, you talk about men being able to be friends, lovers, and providers. Now im hearing that a man MUST LOGICALLY DECIDE where a girl in his life goes. That means all the talk about "finding your niche" is being overlooked. It means you ignore your gut by looking on a piece of paper to show what you want. If all this contradiction keeps occuring, then the readers will start to tune out girlschase. Too many persons are cooking the one dinner and making it corny


David Riley's picture

Hello Troy,

Before I go and answer your questions let me address the context of where the different writer is coming. Chase is trying to get men to turn away from romancing women whom they are already in the friend zone. This saves those men as much time and money as possible. It also keeps them from falling in love with a woman whom they haven't even slept with. Chase is keeping men from going into a dangerous zone. Unfortunately, a lot of readers insist on not giving up on "one special girl" and insist on wanting to make it work. Chase and the other authors write advice that explains their personal experience in that role. However, its not an overnight task and requires months of perfect timing and execution. The problem with that however is you could meet a dozen of new girls in that amount of time.

Also, you must look at the context of each article. Yes Chase talked about a man can be a lover, friend, and/or provider. But he urges men to go the lover route. Because the other two don't yield the desired result most men think it will. You can become everything to a girl once you slept with her. Before you slept with her you want to avoid becoming her friend or provider as much as possible. Otherwise you're just shooting yourself in the foot and things may never happen. Ross is merely addressing the fact that when you first meet a women, you must move as quickly as possible and be sure that you want her as either a lover or friend. It's all about what you want at the end of the day.

Now as far as your earlier comment about men being the most active in the dating game, that is true. Women take the passive role when it comes to dating and relationships. Yes it may seem unfair but that's life. The benefit is once you get so good and seduction and getting women, you become a very desired and wanted men. The type of man that women dream about in their sleep. Right now, you're experiencing what I went through early in seduction. You wish you didn't have to be like this and that things would be different. The only thing you can really do is shape yourself, learn from your mistakes, and better yourself everyday. Until one day you wake up, and girls that previously rejected you want everything to do with you.

Take care,

Just Dave

Aron's picture


when you are new to a social circle, or when you've been in one for a while but haven't figured it out yet, how do you know which cliches are the alpha or beta cliques, and who the alpha female (and beta, gamma...etc ,) is/are inside those groups?

i saw that David Riley wrote a response on how to tell inside groups, but it is often difficult to tell who the alpha is when the cliches are small and close, and i have no idea how to tell which cliches are alpha. Is there a rule of thumb to what kind of girls are the 'alpha cliche' or do you just have to see how the different groups interact when they are all together?

Also, how do the ranks of girls within the ranks of different groups work? Are all the alpha girls higher in rank than all the girls in different groups? And how do girls not in the hierarchy but friends with all the girls in that social circle figure in?


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