What’s Great About Inexperienced Women (and What Isn’t)


inexperienced womenIf you're out and about routinely meeting new women, you'll notice that the women you meet, of course, have a broad range of different personality types and characteristics:

  • Some are bold

  • Some are shy

  • Some try to take charge clumsily

  • Some take charge deftly and naturally

  • Some will wait for eternity for you to take charge

  • Some seem excited to meet you

  • Some appear indifferent

  • Others are reserved, and you have no idea what they're thinking

What this article is centered on is describing the inexperienced women you'll meet - those inexperienced with men, with dating, with sex, and with relationships. What we'll be examining in this piece is how you can tell them from more experienced women; what the differences are when you're actually with them, interacting with them, setting up dates with them, sleeping with them, and having relationships with them; and what are the main pros and major cons of inexperienced vs. more experienced women.

Should be a fun read, and hopefully you'll learn a thing or two you might not have run into, noticed, or been made aware of just yet.


inexperienced women

First, if you haven't read them yet, I'd advise you to read these two articles that deal with and attempt to categorize most of the range of female dating and sex experience you'll encounter:

The first article, on kinds of girls, discusses the difference between personality profiles (strong vs. soft) and experience levels (experienced vs. inexperienced), dividing women (and men, by extension) into four rough quadrants.

The second article, on how women's attitudes towards sex and love change as they become more experienced, discusses the transition from completely idealistic (expectations of love come from Disney flicks) to insatiably curious (gets some experience; starts discovering fun parts of sex and love the movies didn't tell her about) to bitter and jaded (gets more experienced; realizing that there is no Prince Charming, just sexy assholes who won't commit and unsexy white knights she doesn't want to commit) to accepting (she's shed fantastic expectations, and has made her peace with how sex and love actually are, and her expectations now match reality and she can be content with dating, sex, and relationships).

That's a brief rundown on what those two articles cover - again, they'll give you some perspective in addition to and complementary of this one, because we'll cover some similar ground here, but primarily will be focused on aspects of meeting and dating inexperienced women we haven't gone over yet.


Personality Profiles of Women

Returning to our "four kinds of women", you can divide women's base personality profiles into two poles:

  • Vivacious women, and
  • Reserved women

Vivacious women are the ones brimming with life, vigor, enthusiasm, and curiosity. They have indomitable spirits, love challenging themselves, are highly emotionally expressive, and thrill at the unknown and new experiences. They're less emotionally sensitive, but will also not allow others to burden them with too much emotion, either.

Reserved women are the ones who are quiet, unexpressive, and give the appearance of "still waters" at the surface. They are steadier, more focused, unwavering souls, the opposite of vivacious women's changeable nature, and tend to be highly perceptive and extremely detail-oriented. They're more emotionally sensitive, but can also carry a strong emotional burden.

Now, you will sometimes meet women in the extremes - women who are exact representations of either of these personality profiles. Usually though, you're going to meet women who are somewhere between the two, along a spectrum.

For instance, the shy excited girl: she's a girl who's vivacious on the inside, but wears a veneer of reserve on the outside because she's still somewhat cautious and wants to preserve a certain social persona.

Compare her to a club queen: a girl who's really more a reserved woman, but has crafted a seemingly-vivacious persona for herself because for whatever reason she needs the attention she can get only through popularity.

A good way of deciding how much of a vivacious or a reserved woman a girl is is by asking this question:

Does she thrive more on STIMULATION, or VALIDATION?

  • Reserved women require emotional validation - they thrive on others' approval. This can take the form of attention seeking (e.g., girls who go dress in sparkly dresses in nightclubs, act aloof and disinterested, and try to get men to hit on them and buy them drinks), or it can merely take the form of desiring the love and approval of the people she cares for - her family, her friends, and you, if you're her partner. They care little for stimulation, and are content to be in peaceful, tranquil environments, so long as they feel sufficiently validated.

  • Vivacious women, at the extreme, care little for validation; if the world approves of them or not, who cares? What vivacious women crave is stimulation: they want to FEEL! To feel excited; to feel passionate; to feel alive. So long as their need for stimulation is kept sated, they are happy; but if the stimulation dries up, they become increasingly restless, and grow quite bored. Too much time spent like this will lead to an eruption of emotion, often followed by rebelling against anyone (parent, partner) they view as trying to trap them in a soulless, stimulation-devoid situation.

Again, these are extremes; every women you meet will have some mix of validation- and stimulation-seeking predispositions. No woman is so free of the need for validation that she could tolerate being insulted and rejected by EVERYone; and, no woman is so free of the need for stimulation that you could stick in her in a 10 foot by 10 foot box and have her be eternally happy so long as her soul mate was right there with her.

But, if you start paying attention to the women around you, and get to know them really well, you will begin to see this pop out at you: they either lean toward validation-seeking, or they lean toward stimulation-seeking.

The validation-seekers are our reserved women, who just want to feel cared for; and the stimulation-seekers are our vivacious women, who just want to feel enlivened.


The Bluntness of Inexperience

inexperienced womenWhen it comes to dating, sex, and relationships, inexperienced women are blunt. They are not smooth, natural, and svelte... they haven't learned to be yet. The smooth, natural, svelte ones are the ones with much experience with men - they've figured out how to push the right buttons with the men in their lives, and know how to make those men feel excited and feel good.

I've had inexperienced women ask me for my phone number immediately after opening them. I've had them text me to ask me on dates before I could do so myself. I've had them ask me if I'd marry them the moment we became lovers. I've had them tell me they loved me the morning after.

These things can be really off-putting the first time you experience them, especially if you're not used to inexperienced women. I didn't start meeting many inexperienced women until I'd been picking up for years, once I started branching out more into day game, because I'd mostly been meeting women in bars and clubs before that (and finding an inexperienced woman in a nightclub is like finding a vegetarian in a steak house... let alone trying to get anywhere with her; her walls are a mile high there); I also started running into inexperienced women a LOT more frequently once I started traveling and living abroad in earnest... you're just a lot more likely to meet more experienced women in the West, because Western culture is one that encourages people to become romantically and sexually experienced from an early age, and to try many partners with little shame - very different from many other parts of the world.

What freaked me out with this originally too was that when you meet crazy girls, they will behave exactly like inexperienced women in many ways, despite the fact that crazy girls are usually the most sexually experienced women you will meet. They basically appear to be unable to let go of the romantic idealism they had ingrained in them early on in life, however, and unable to ever figure out men. When I first started meeting inexperienced women, I assumed they were all nuts... it took a lot of comparing notes with friends who dates inexperienced women a lot more for me to realize they were just behaving the way women behave when they don't know men all that well yet.

The major difference between inexperienced women and CRAZY women? Cynicism and trust. Crazy women have idealized expectations about love and sex, yes, just like inexperienced women; and they will be blunt and straightforward with you about these things too, which can be refreshing and nice, whether it's coming from inexperience or craziness.

However... inexperienced women are almost universally endearingly trusting, sweet, and naïve, and if you ever hurt them (which is rather easy to do, though I urge you to tread lightly and do your best not to), they react to being hurt with sadness or disbelief.

Crazy women will often appear candid and trusting at the outset, but rapidly start switching back and forth between this and expressions of cynicism and mistrust. They often respond to being hurt or disappointed not with sadness or disbelief, though, but with vindictive rage: they were expecting this - and here's your punishment. (Note: cynical girls - women who are somewhere in between inexperienced and experienced - can behave for all intents and purposes like crazy women, though this is more of a passing phase than it is a permanent condition, assuming they continue getting more experience with men until they reach acceptance of the reality of men, dating, relationships, and sex, and make their peace with the way things are)

Mentally-balanced experienced women, by contrast to inexperienced and crazy women, never give the true "I'm putting all of my faith in you - my life is in your hands!" level of all-in trust; rather, they'll pay lip service to trust ("I totally believe in you!") while clearly remaining calm and unconcerned about whether they can really trust you or not - they know men, they know there's only so much they can control with you, so they're going to sit back and enjoy the ride and let time tell if you're what they're looking for or if you aren't.

So, our signs of an inexperienced woman are:

  1. She's blunt about her interest in you, OR extremely nervous. If she's a little more on the vivacious side of things, she'll tend to just tell you outright that she's interested. She may even ask you out herself and push things forward herself, just because she likes you and she's curious. If she's reserved, she'll be out of her element, but you'll be able to tell she likes you because she'll clam up and get very nervous around you - either trembling with excitement or, sometimes, frozen like a popsicle (make sure you thaw her out before you try escalating).

  2. She's idealistic, OR extremely curious. Experienced women sometimes pay lip service to romantic idealism ("I'm just looking for my Mr. Right"), but you can tell there's no real emotion behind it. And there's little curiosity - most of their curiosity has been sated already. Now it's just about finding another sex partner, or another long-term dating partner. Inexperienced women, conversely, are either filled with dreamy ideals about what romance and dating and sex is, or else they're bursting at the seams to find out more and learn as much as they can about the topics.

  3. Sex is straightforward. That doesn't mean you'll encounter no sex resistance; you may encounter a whole BANANZA of it! Other times you'll see none, or very little. Regardless of which, it's very straightforward; either she resists, or she doesn't resist... you don't get the frame battles you encounter with more experienced women, with things like, "Not on the first date," or, "I like men who take it slower," where it's clear she's been here before and already has her toolbox for making any guy she hasn't already ruled "yes" on for sex sound like someone who doesn't "know the rules." With inexperienced women, it's just protests or no protests... no skillful reframing attempts that require you to deconstruct her logic before you get her into bed.

  4. She's EXTREMELY trusting of you. I don't have to tell experienced women not to trust me; they don't already. But inexperienced women, I can tell them until I'm blue in the face that I'm not the kind of guy you give your heart to or put your faith in, but they just can't help doing it anyway. There's typically not much cynicism about or doubt in you either, so long as her needs for validation or stimulation are being sufficiently met. Only if she starts feeling underserved may she begin to doubt you or pressure you - otherwise, she trusts that you're just going to do everything she needs to be happy, and makes few efforts to direct you otherwise.

  5. She falls in love easily. There are exceptions to this - the only inexperienced girl I was ever able to date for any long period of time was a highly logical, spunky-but-unemotional girl who was more focused on her long-term aspirations than on finding true love, and at no point did she fall head-over-heels for me (I also worked to avoid having her do so, but try this with other inexperienced women was only ever prolonging the inevitable). Usually though, for an inexperienced girl, a new partner brings such a rush of unfamiliar feelings, emotions, and brain chemicals that it's like fighting a tsunami; she's helpless to do anything but fall in love. Crazy women can seem this way too, but again, the lack of total trust is the giveaway; they throw themselves at you, but doubt you and mistrust you at the same time. Experienced and healthy women just don't experience the same levels of "in love" as inexperienced and crazy women, by comparison; their love is a calmer, steadier love when they feel it (though they will certainly be excited about it too!), and it takes more to bring it on.

  6. She gives you little resistance. Inexperienced women just pitch in a lot more. Need help cleaning your place? No problem. Want her to bring you dinner? She's more than happy to! Just make sure her needs are met (good conversation and great sex), and she'll be thrilled to keep doing whatever you need her to (within reason) in the relationship. Experienced women are different; because they have experience dating a range of men, they've also had relationships where they received good conversation and great sex in exchange for nothing, so they come in with different expectations: you can clean your own damn apartment, thank you very much, and I'm pretty sure you can handle your own laundry, too. Of course, if they've only had a few longer term relationships, they may soften up as the relationship progresses - because, again, they don't have much experience being in a 2-year relationship, so they're going to be more open to your paradigm (whatever it is) of what each person's end of the bargain is over the long-term.

Outside of her straight-up telling you about her entire dating, sexual, and romantic history (which she will almost never do, and pretty much never be 100% candid about if she does, even if she seems to be), these signs are the giveaways that a woman you're talking to or seeing falls more on the inexperienced side of things than the experienced side.

Now, let's talk meeting, dating, and pros and cons.


inexperienced women

I'll break this section down into three subsections:

  1. Where to meet inexperienced women when you want to meet them

  2. How dating inexperienced women is different from experienced women

  3. Pros and cons of dating, sleeping with, and having relationships with inexperienced women

Let's start with #1.


Where to Meet Inexperienced Women

The first rule of inexperienced women is that the smaller the town she's from, and the less exposure she's had to large, anonymous, liberalized urban metropolises, the more inexperienced with men she will tend to be.

That's because small towns are insular environments where everyone knows everyone else, a close eye is kept on everybody's actions, and beliefs about what men and women "should" do hew closely to tradition. Act out of step, and you'll face all kinds of dire social consequences: shaming, status loss, and even seeing a downgrade in your mating prospects (e.g., the small town girl labeled "slut" versus the small town girl labeled "good girl" - who's most likely to get the handsome, intelligent, successful guy as boyfriend and husband? No contest).

All that changes the moment our small town girl moves to the big city. Instantly, she's thrown into an environment that is anonymous, socially permissive, and free.

Experienced vs. inexperienced then often comes down to the differentiation between city slicker and country bumpkin.

You'll meet women roughly divided along these lines, assuming you're living in a Western city and sticking to meeting women there (small towns are different, as are big cities in non-Western nations):

  • The New Arrival: this is the girl who's just made it into town. She's still running her "small town" programming, but is going to be pretty impressed by the first charming men she comes across who are good with women - men like that simply do not exist in small town environments (it's impossible to rack up enough experience - an average big city playboy puts even the best small town playboy to shame). She has not yet learned that charm = experience; she just knows that charm is extremely charming.

  • The Settled-In Girl: this is the girl who's been living in the city for 6 months to a few years, and while she hasn't fully adapted, her life perspective has begun to change, and she's probably started acquiring some dating experience. If she was lucky (or conservative), she might've met a great guy and ended up in a relationship with one of the first few guys she went on dates with after getting to town (could've been Day 1 in the city, or maybe not until a few months after she arrived if she's a slow mover). She's a bit more experienced, but still pretty inexperienced overall.

  • The Long-Time Resident: the long-time resident is the girl who's been living in cities for a number of years. If she's a college girl, she might go back home to the country during breaks in the school year, but by Year 4 of university she's more or less a long-time resident. She's now pretty experienced with men, and falls more on the "experienced" side of the spectrum than the "inexperienced" side of the spectrum. If she's been fortunate or is a naturally excellent judge of character, her experiences have been good, and she's retained a positive mindset on men, dating, and relationships even as she's lost her idealism; if she's like most women, though, her inexperience led to her dating all the wrong kinds of guys, getting hurt, and going through the bitter / cynical stage, which you may find her in when you meet her (or she may already have gone through if you meet her later on in her dating career).

  • The Born City Girl: this girl's been living in cities all her life. Idealism is something for teenagers, so far as she's concerned, and she hasn't been an idealist since she was 14. She falls into the "confident experienced" side of the spectrum - she knows the deal, knows how it all works, and has no illusions about men: men aren't good, they aren't bad, they're just men, and you've got to take 'em as they are. She'll screen hard and control the flow of things unless you're already pretty good with women as is; even then, unless you come in with overwhelming value or sexuality, she'll want to keep some control over the way things go (if usually doing so under the radar / with subtlety), because her time letting guys truly call the shots ended in 10th grade.

Those are the types you'll usually run into, depending on their length of time spent living in cities, in Western metropolises. If you visit small towns, the girls there are mostly all inexperienced, and if you're an attractive guy with good game and you've learned how to work the small town scene (e.g., be discreet and just don't stick out like a sore thumb as you pick her up and be totally obvious about it to everyone, and don't make her feel self-conscious), it's like skeet shooting with a bazooka.

Likewise, to varying extents, in non-Western cities that don't have as long a tradition of dating where the men don't know what they're doing and are not very attractive or aggressive.

Basically, in small towns and non-Western cities like this, you're an "exceptional good" on the market; in Western cities, though, while a guy with good fundamentals and good game is not exactly a dime a dozen, he isn't totally rare or unusual, either.

So, where to meet inexperienced women:

Where you will not meet inexperienced women (usually):

  • Bars
  • Nightclubs
  • Wild parties
  • Networking events
  • Speed dating events
  • Anywhere else people go to "mate hunt" or hook up

Basically, if people go somewhere to get a date or get laid, you will not meet inexperienced women there, because inexperienced women find these places strange, off-putting, or terrifying, and they usually are not interested in the kinds of people they expect they will meet and interact with there. Only as they become more experienced do women start venturing to these kinds of places and enjoying going there.


How Dating Inexperienced Women Differs

Here's the thing about inexperience dealing with other people: you set your walls earlier on to prevent yourself from going farther than you logically think you ought to, and only learn as you become more experienced how to go farther in without going over "the brink."

By way of example - let's say you're looking at a potential negotiation for higher pay. If you're inexperienced negotiating, you may prefer not to negotiate at all in the first place, because while there's a chance you get what you want, there's also a chance that you botch things and actually end up looking worse for it, and maybe that raise you would've gotten anyway next year had you kept your mouth shut now doesn't appear.

As you become more experienced with negotiating, however, you become better and better at making your case for what you want (increasing your upside) while also making sure you don't do anything that will offend your boss or cause him to think less of you, blow up at you, make him start thinking you aren't worth the trouble of all these annoying salary demands, etc. (limiting your downside).

Inexperienced women stay away from all but the most interesting, attractive men whom they already feel "sure" about, as a way of preventing things they don't want to happen from happening. Conversely, experienced women are much more comfortable walking up to the brink, and confident in their ability to not go over.

In other words, what this means is this: until you have good fundamentals and a good degree of experience with women, inexperienced women will be harder for you than experienced women.

But, there is a certain threshold you cross where suddenly, it reverses; experienced women don't get any harder, per se, but inexperienced women suddenly become a whole lot easier.

The reason why? You've arrived at the place where you are so attractive to inexperienced women that they drop that initial barrier they have against meeting new women - and once you're past that barrier, everything else is easy.

inexperienced women

On the other hand, experienced women let all kinds of men past that initial "Do I even want to talk to this guy / give him my phone number / go on a date with him?" barrier, but somewhere along the line they have another barrier that is much more difficult to overcome, and that, depending on your experience level with women (and how willing an experienced woman is to lower that barrier for you - again, fundamentals), you may not be able to overcome.

These are the experienced women whom you meet, and you don't feel that instant connection, but they agree to go out with you anyway... then, after a date or two, you start realizing that you're never going to get them into bed, and they are merely guiding you gently but firmly toward their friend zones to be a kindly helper and provider of various kinds of backup and support for their lives.

That's the biggest difference between inexperienced and experienced women: the high wall comes early. With an experienced woman, even as an experienced guy yourself, it can sometimes be hard to tell if you'll be able to scale the wall when it comes or not; with an inexperienced woman, you more or less know right away: either you're over the wall, or you're not even getting a date with her.

Here are some of the other differences - but they all tie back into that first one:

  • She doesn't have preset notions about what dating "should" be. You will almost never meet an inexperienced girl who is upset that you took her on a very informal date, or didn't spend a lot of money on her. Nor will you meet inexperienced women who have hard rules, like "No sex until the third date." Not all experienced women have expectations or rules like this, but no inexperienced women you'll meet do - it's an exclusively "experienced" phenomenon (though mostly reserved for men the experienced woman wants as orbiters or, occasionally, boyfriend prospects).

  • She doesn't know exactly what she wants. That's because her experience with men is hovering somewhere close to "zero." Compare that to an experienced woman, who knows right which box you go into for her within a few minutes of meeting you, generally. The inexperienced women you meet are looking to you to help them figure it out - give them a great experience, and they'll be happy to be along for the ride. Of course, this also makes them easier to push into situations they'll regret, so do be careful - just remember that inexperienced women are trusting you, they haven't become hardened or jaded by the world yet, and you don't want to be the one who forces them to become some jaded, cynical soul - give her a wonderful, happy experience, or, if you start doubting that you can, call it off.

  • Her resistance to sex is token, or easily overcome for the experienced man. Partly, that's because the biggest resistance you faced with her was overcoming the wall she has about going on a real date with you (or going home with you, if you met her and pulled her same day). Partly, that's also because sex is a relatively (or even totally) new thing for her, and she doesn't know how to deal with it - does she want it? She's not sure. Should she resist? Maybe. You handled her resistance calmly and naturally? Okay... maybe she should just do it. Should she have sex with you just for the experience? That might be worth doing. Inexperienced women have a lot of reasons to say "yes", and their "no"s are much more easily transformed into "yes"es, too. Compare that to experienced women, who've more or less made up their minds about you by the time the two of you get somewhere alone, and unless you're the über-seducer, they're sticking to their guns come hell or high water.

  • She cares what her friends think a lot more. Experienced women are much more comfortable shrugging off their friends to go with a man they like, even if the friends don't fully approve - but inexperienced women are a lot more likely to follow the herd. This isn't as big a deal if you meet them outside of social areas (e.g., the street), but it still can be, especially if they spend most of their days locked into tiny social circles where NOTHING is secret (e.g., she's a student at a really small university).

Mostly though, it's all about getting your fundamentals and your process with women down tight enough that you are instantly attractive, and that you know just what to do and can do it. Get that handled, and inexperienced women flip from "hard to get" to "easy to get", almost overnight.


Pros and Cons of Inexperienced Women

You probably already have a pretty good idea about these based on the rest of the article - but, nevertheless, here's a quick summary of the main advantages and disadvantages of inexperienced v. experienced women:

Pros:

  • Sweet, endearing, unjaded, and not cynical
  • Willing to go above and beyond for you as a partner
  • Falls in love easily (if you want a girl who will fall in love easily)
  • Easy to get if your fundamentals and process are already solid
  • Is rarely punitive or vindictive if you accidentally hurt her
  • Malleable and able to be guided in relationships
  • She believes in true love and lifelong commitment (if you want this)
  • Is sexually conservative and reserved (if you want this)
  • Is more likely to be faithful and not cheat on you (per research quoted in the "How Many Partners" article - infidelity risk increases by 7% per partner in women)

Cons:

  • Blunt or overly reserved; usually not very ladylike, svelte, or charming
  • Can be boring / not very interesting, as a result of her lack of worldliness
  • Very quickly over-invests in you if you let her, leading to spiraling emotions
  • Falls in love easily (if you DON'T want a girl who will fall in love easily)
  • Often very difficult to get if your fundamentals or process aren't pristine
  • Is too easily hurt, even sometimes by things you don't think are hurtful
  • You will have to serve as teacher and guide in the relationship
  • She believes in true love and lifelong commitment (and may expect this)
  • Is sexually repressed, probably doesn't orgasm easily, and requires training
  • Expects you to be faithful, and will have difficulty with any other relationship setup

A rough guidepost: if you want a stable, sweet, unjaded partner who trusts you, supports you 100%, and is most likely to stay loyal to you, inexperienced women may be perfect. Also, if you're an attractive, experienced man who enjoys sleeping with "fresh" women for whom everything is new and exciting, you'll like inexperienced women quite a bit too.

The flip side of that is that if you want open or unconventional relationships, great, hot sex, and a woman who can keep up with you as roughly your equal in a relationship, you'll prefer an experienced girlfriend. And, if you're just starting out with women, you'll find experienced women more accommodating; if you're very good with women, you'll find them a little more cagey than inexperienced women - but the sex will be better, and they know how to treat a man much more than their inexperienced counterparts do.


All About Experience

Quick wrap up:

  • Vivacious women favor stimulation over validation (correlates with "strong" in the "Kinds of Girls" article)

  • Reserved women favor validation over stimulation (correlates with "soft" in the "Kinds of Girls" article)

A woman can be either of these and be either experienced or inexperienced - don't make the mistake of thinking that just because she's outgoing and feisty, she's experienced, or just because she's cautious and reserved, she isn't. These are personality traits - not measures of a woman's dating and sexual experience.

Signs a girl's inexperienced are:

  • She's blunt about her interest in you, OR extremely nervous
  • She's idealistic, OR extremely curious
  • Sex is straightforward (happens or doesn't - no frame-twisting)
  • She's EXTREMELY trusting of you
  • She falls in love easily
  • She gives you little resistance

The four levels of experience you'll meet in a Western city, measuring by length of time living in Western cities, are:

  • The new arrival (inexperienced)
  • The settled-in girl (more experience)
  • The long-time resident (still more experience)
  • The born city girl: (she's a natural)

You can meet inexperienced women:

  • In small towns
  • In non-Western cities
  • On the street via day game
  • In transit (e.g., planes, trains, and buses)
  • On college campuses
  • At work (sometimes, if you're meeting the girls just out of school, and they attended small schools in small towns / rural locations)
  • Out shopping for clothes, gifts, groceries, etc.
  • In church

You won't meet them at:

  • Bars
  • Nightclubs
  • Wild parties
  • Networking events
  • Speed dating events
  • Anywhere else people go to "mate hunt" or hook up

The main differences about dating an inexperienced woman compared to dating experienced women are:

  • She doesn't have preset notions about what dating "should" be
  • She doesn't know exactly what she wants
  • Her resistance to sex is token, or easily overcome for the experienced man
  • She cares what her friends think a lot more

... and I won't review pros and cons because they're right above this wrap-up!

So, dating inexperienced women: it's lots of fun, so long as you're responsible with their hearts, aren't contributing to them becoming jaded somewhere down the line, and you know what you're getting into.

Just make sure you've got your fundamentals and process handled first, or you're going to have a monster of a time trying to figure out why inexperienced women are so hard to get, and why your more charismatic, experienced buddy thinks exactly the opposite ;)

Chase

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

profiles and inexperience


Chase, the categories I don't know. I Wonder which category I fall into. I have the following problem. I consider myself pretty confident and experienced guy but I have situations, moments I totally lose confidence and faze so easily. I don't know how to work on that. it happens so quickly that you can't control myself. I don't have problems to be confident, even cockly round girls and on first dates, at work when I do some talking to people most of the time I feel full of confidence. However, there are those moments that crack me. I study at film school and I noticed I usually expierence problems talking to high caliber people, I automatically value them higher them myself and I become shy and totally different person around them. When I do pitching to sell a script this situation puts you lower and I feel like I'm go out of my ways to impress them because that's actually the point. Then, they can faze me very easily and I can't control my as stupid as it sounds - face muscles. I can't pose and act anymore cause I feel I'm already fazed. You mentioned Chae you did acting. Do you have and advice how to control your body and yourself in such situations? One of my biggest nightmare is I'm with a girl and Im so solid, composed, a little cocky and we run across a situation like the above and she'll look at me and she'll be like - oh my god, who is it?

Chase Amante's picture

Freezing Up Outside Your Comfort Zone

Author

Anon-

Happens to everyone - in new situations with a lot of unknown variables and with people you struggle to relate to, you're going to feel out of your element, especially if you want something from them (to like you, approve of you, give you a phone number, offer you a job, etc.). Removing that fear and apprehension is all about gaining more and deeper reference points.

On appearing comfortable in uncomfortable situations - first, study how you act, carry yourself, and the like when you are completely at ease, and even feeling powerful. Next, emulate those behaviors in uncomfortable situations. You'll also need to monitor your behavior in uncomfortable situations, and pick up on your "give aways." For instance, you might notice that your hands move to cover your face or scratch your head or neck when uncomfortable, but you don't do this other times. Become cognizant of it, and stop doing it. Or, you might notice that you have very straight posture when confident, but when uncomfortable you begin to slouch. Once aware of it, correct it.

General recommendations are to speak slowly, use plenty of pauses, try not to smile too much (fake smiles look very uncomfortable, and if you're smiling too much when already uncomfortable, you're often flashing fake grins), keep your back straight and chest out so you continue to look powerful, and take a moment before you say anything to think. Mostly just slow things down... not only does it make you appear more powerful and more in control, it also gives you a little extra time to compose yourself. If you're normally a rapidly-moving person when confident, you may also want to slow down and throw in pauses here, both to muddy the line between when you're confident and when you're not, and also because slowness and pauses make you look more powerful regardless of how you're feeling internally.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

thanks a million man, that's


thanks a million man, that's helpful.

Anonymous's picture

Great write-up, Chase! But


Great write-up, Chase! But can you elaborate further on escalating with these girls?

You wrote that their resistance is largely token, but since they are also very sexually reserved (and probably never even think about having sex on the first date), they can get really nervous/uneasy during escalation (which they can easily flip into autorejection if come off too strong), do you have any tips on how to deal with a situation like this?

Chase Amante's picture

Escalating with Inexperienced Women

Author

Anon-

In my experience, you're more likely to encounter auto-rejection with more experienced women than you will inexperienced women following aggressive escalation that doesn't result in sex then and there. Experienced women seem to leave and think to themselves, "Bah, another player - and not even one who could satisfy me! I obviously don't like him, since I didn't sleep with him," while inexperienced women think something more akin to, "Wow, I went so far with him - I must REALLY like him!"

Other than that, the escalation process is mostly the same - her resistance (once you're over her wall) is mainly token, yes, but getting over that wall itself can be tough - e.g., I had a very inexperienced girl I had to fight for my LIFE just to get her to take her coat off in my place (I spent maybe an hour kissing her and struggling to get her to take her coat off), but once the coat was off, the rest of her clothes came off in minutes. You just treat it the same as anything else: escalate aggressively, then back off a bit and let things cool down, while still being a little warm with her, touching her, with your arm around her, etc. Then, a minute or two later, dial it back up again, and try a slightly different approach... then dial it back down again when she begins to resist. Repeat the process again and again, and you get through the resistance.

If you haven't seen them yet, these articles on resistance to sex apply to both experienced and inexperienced women alike:

Chase

Zac's picture

I been waiting for this.


I have been waiting for this, and yes, that cynicism part. Once you see it, you better put a danger mark on her forehead.

Slap it hard on the head, XD Make sure you see that everytime you see her. She switches personalities like a lightswitch!

Zac

Wes's picture

Interesting. Ah, so if girls


Interesting.

Ah, so if girls at the club or any other mate finding place say: "I'm just here to dance/with friends/enjoy myself, they're most likely lying?

Also to sum up, if an inexperienced guy has a better chance with experienced girls than inexperienced girls, does that mean the only thing the inexperienced guy has to be good at is overcoming the experienced girl's frames and token resistance?

This article has opened my eyes to more that I thought it would. I just realized what type of girl I want and that I'm going for the wrong ones, but at the same time, I HAVE to go for the ones I don't want in order to have the ones that I DO want later on down the road.

Chase Amante's picture

Club Excuses and Getting Experienced Women

Author

Wes-

Yes, exactly - the "I'm just here to dance" line is just a brush off (you'll notice the same girl dancing with some stud later that same night, even if she wouldn't dance with you), as are "I'm just here with my friends" ("Great, me too!") and "I'm just here to enjoy myself" ("Good you found me then!"). Just a way of saying "I'm here to find SOME guy... just not YOU." Means "Your fundamentals - try harder." A sufficiently interesting / attractive / charismatic man doesn't get these, unless he comes in awkwardly - even if she doesn't *think* she's there to meet a man, she won't brush off a genuinely very appealing new fellow.

Getting women is not mainly about overcoming frames and resistance - these things are necessary, but the most important thing to worry about are your fundamentals - that is, are you taking care of all the odds and ends that are going to make you more attractive, or are you not? Beyond that, it's things like conversation and social awareness, and then things like leading, frames, and investment all come into play.

Chase

Veaire's picture

My God


... And how insane that the time I come on to this site is when I see a post about the kind of girl I am dating right now (remember me from the girl I mentioned back when you told me about her throwing resistance up about sex and church? They're not the same but I'm the same guy).

I have to admit, I almost don't think I can trust her because I can't believe how inexperienced she actually is. But she's just as you say, she is so sweet, and so dedicated and it melts the heart that froze over. At this point, she's messaging me every day when she wakes up as I'm the first thing she thinks about in the morning, and we talk on videochat since she's in Rhode Island. I've driven to see this girl so we know what we're like... but the constant communication is actually becoming a little daunting and I want to let her know to ease up on it a bit without hurting her. Yahoo answers says she will be hurt regardless...

That's probably the only backfire here when it comes to me, she's endearingly unrelenting. So cute it hurts?
Great post, Chase!

Marty's picture

Going over the "brink"


Chase:

Extremely helpful and interesting article as always. I have one question only.

This "brink" you speak of going over... becoming a man's lover, yes? You don't say so explicitly, but the context suggests it...

Is that really so catastrophic as offending your boss and missing out on a raise (your analogy of choice)? Why? Because of the risk of pregnancy from an untested/less than ideal man?

Understanding this, I feel, will help me to understand a great deal more... Thank you!

-Marty

Chase Amante's picture

The Danger of the Brink

Author

Marty-

The danger of sex isn't so much the risk of pregnancy, though that certainly factors into it. It's not even the danger of STDs, which arguably are a worse danger than pregnancy since they're potentially permanent, but are almost a non-factor in how most people think about sex (I've met very few women who insist on a condom if I don't feel like strapping up).

Rather, it's a fear of the unknown... what might happen if we have sex?

Might it be possible that:

  • She feels bad about herself after?
  • You never call again, and she feels humiliated?
  • You want to meet her every day, and she doesn't want that?
  • You turn into some kind of weirdo stalker creep?
  • The sex is going to be bad, awkward, or painful?
  • She'll be embarrassed to be naked in front of you?
  • She's afraid of seeing you naked?
  • Everyone finds out about it and her reputation takes a big hit?
  • You lose respect for her for sleeping with you so quickly?

... or any number of other unpleasant things occurs?

Much of seduction is about removing these fears and objections from women's minds; the more experienced a girl is sexually, and especially with taking new partners, the fewer of them you have to worry about (although the more stringent she's going to be about making sure the ones she DOES care about are addressed to her satisfaction), while the less experienced she is, the more of them you must worry about and address (though, if your fundamentals are through the roof and you know what you're doing with women, you'll tend to cut through these like a hot knife through butter).

Chase

Troy's picture

Inexperienced or Experienced? and Questions


Hey Chase,

This article was a bit confusing for me but it was good. Ive seen girls showing both signs of experience and inexperience at different times depending on the girls and how much she likes the guy despite his fundamentals weakness or strengths. So i still dont know where the girls in my life currently stand when i read this and ran through all the girls i know. My only exception is with girls who are obviously experienced or inexperienced. Let me explain with examples:

1) Inexperienced behavior sometimes switch to full on experienced behavior: leadership, bitterness and accepting men the way they are, calmness and most of the points you listed about experienced girls.

2) Experienced girls also displaying shifting emotions between inexperienced. The inexperienced behaviors that you listed above are sometimes all shown experienced girls too.

My questions are:

1) Should i use a scale/tally/count of all these to determine in terms of counting all the points above then seeing how the girls fall under most of the time?

2) I had a girlfriend in my life and she shows these behaviors listed below:
- Fall in love with me easily
-Talking about marriage before we even went on a date (and we didnt even sleep together)
- Loved kissing me the moment she got a chance.
- Behaved rather wild and calm at different times when she held onto me
- Looked deeply in my eyes during eye contact.
- Told me she was a virgin even though i found it hard to believe her. I want to lose my virginity to a virgin too so that in the future i can look back and say it was a take for take.
-She had a lot of men around her and she is full of a wild passion
- Loves kissing over all
- She is a strong leader for all men which is and experienced trait
- She seems to understand what men want and wraps them all around her little finger
- Shows powerful commanding body language as if to say she is an experienced sexaholic.

These are both signs of the two quadrants. Can you tell me where this girl falls based on my description?

I have a personal question also. I want to lose my virginity to a virgin girl. You say not to worry about finding the right girl. Im not looking for the right girl now, just 1 that is a virgin. In the future i want to look back and know that it was take for take. do you agree with finding a virgin girl to lose yours to?

Also, when you were a virgin, did you lose it to a virgin or it didnt matter? What quadrant did the girl you lose your virginity fall into?
I dont want a beauty girl or 1 with a great personality to lose my virginity to. Do you agree with this? The last thing i want is to cant stop thinking about her when she moves onto another man since i am inexperienced. Thanks for the reply!

-Troy

Chase Amante's picture

Virginity

Author

Troy-

Girls can be good at controlling men if the men aren't much more experienced than they are. Essentially, commanding men / having them at your beck and call is something a girl can learn without ever so much as kissing a guy - she just has to know how to dangle carrots in front of them; if she only does this with men she isn't all that interested in, it'll be pretty easy for her to remain inexperienced (and, the kind of men who follow her around usually aren't the more experienced / attractive men, either).

Anyway, very hard to judge over the Internet, but from what you've said and knowing that you're still pretty young the girl sounds like she has a strong personality that's probably going to predispose her to being very sexual later in life, but she's likely just starting to dip her toes into the pool and play around with wrapping guys around her little finger.

Finding a virgin to lose your virginity to: when you're sexually inexperienced, this can feel like some sort of magical moment of goodness and light and you want it to be perfect and whatnot… once you've slept with a few girls, and in fact, probably even after the first time you have sex PERIOD, you're going to look back at the years you spent turning down women who wanted you in your quest for whatever special sexual experience you were seeking, and you're going to say, "Dear GOD, I was an IDIOT!!! WHY was I SUCH an idiot?! If I could go back in time, I'd SLAP myself!"

As far as avoiding beautiful / charismatic women as a first time lay - I'm not sure I'd go that far, although you may have a point about not getting too attached to your first. It's more normal for a lot of guys to have a not-that-pretty first time girl, too, just because you need some game to get the pretty girls - most of them lose their virginity to older, more experienced guys, who lost their OWN virginity to less attractive, more experienced women. That's kind of just how it goes - put two totally inexperienced people in a room together, and you'll mostly end up with a whole lot of staring at each other waiting for the other person to do something, and other than that just a whole lot of nothing ;)

Chase

PinotNoir's picture

Inexperienced guys going for inexperienced girls?


Hey Chase,

Great read, as always, and probably something to add to the Newbie Assignment. Anyway, to the question...

Because inexperienced girls still give me lots of resistant (and I do finally get to kissing with LOTS of persistence and do finally get to sex with even more ungodly amounts of persistence and dates), I know that I'm still the inexperienced guy that you mention in the article. Unfortunately, I really only desire inexperienced girls. Experienced girls just don't do it for me.

I know that in the article you mention that it will be very difficult for inexperienced guys to make love with inexperienced women. But, if I accept this, do you have any advice? Or do you think it's a lost cause, and I should only be looking for more experienced girls? The problem is that I just like inexperienced girls way too much.

Also, is this directly linked to sexual partners? For example, I know a girl that has only had 3 sexual partners. I consider her inexperienced. How many sexual partners until a woman is out of the inexperienced stage? I know that's a little bit too specific with too much black&white thinking, but I'm just interested in a hypothetical estimate.

Thanks,
Pinot

Franco's picture

Yeah, there's an article for that.


Pinot,

This was an article Chase put up not long after I found this website, but I think it will answer some (or all) of your questions:

How Many Partners Has Your Girlfriend Had?

EDIT: I just realized Chase had this linked in the above article already. You should read it. =)

- Franco

Veaire's picture

One of the pages


I wish I put this in with the first post, but in one of the other posts that Chase made, he was talking about making your own money and not having to deal with overhead voices, and he gave a link to one of the things people can learn to make some money off of... I can't find that page, and I think it was about programming languages. Can somebody guide me there?

Chase Amante's picture

Programming

Author

Veaire-

Believe that should be one of these comments:

Chase

Danny's picture

Why Inexperience women NOT in Networking Events ?


Dear Chase,

Great article as always...I just have a very short question. Why Inexperience women NOT in Networking Events? Networking is only for finding new jobs right? Even if a woman who lack sexual experience still need to find jobs, doesn't she?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Why Inexperience women NOT in Networking Events ?

Author

Danny-

You'll occasionally see them dragged there by their friends, but it's usually not the kind of place you'll find inexperienced women - the soft ones are too shy to go, and the strong ones don't see the value in it.

If you pay attention to most networking events, most of the people you'll meet there are self-promoters (of varying degrees of skill), and many use networking events as date-finding opportunities. Attractive women tend to get plenty of men asking them out or at least strongly suggesting they get in touch when exchanging business cards with them, and many of the men who go to networking events aren't the most attractive or socially savvy guys out there. Couple that with the ease of approaching for even socially uncalibrated guys (purely for business reasons, of course!), and you've got a recipe for a situation that quickly becomes uncomfortable for all but the more socially seasoned women.

Chase

Wallflower's picture

Love


Chase,

I am wondering how you would define love. I know you probably have it split into two categories: passionate and affectionate. So, assuming this definition, are you saying that experienced girls cannot have passionate all-consuming "in-love" feeling on the same level of intensity as inexperienced girls can? I have no idea where I fall on the experienced/inexperienced spectrum, that all depends on how you look at it, but I would think that both experienced and inexperienced girls should be able to feel strong passionate impulses for certain people every once in a while. I know that I can fall in-love at first sight, although that almost never happens, I know that I can fall madly and passionately in love even though there was no crazy spark to begin with, provided that something else later on triggered it. Anyway, hope all is well, thanks for continuing to write.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Love

Author

Wallflower-

Good to hear from you! Happy holidays.

Yep - the psychological community calls them "passionate" and "compassionate" love; I call it passionate love and "old love" (or "old people love"): "How to Make Her Love You: Passionate Love, and Old Love."

Everyone remains capable of experiencing passionate love, even with a wide range of experiences, but the threshold for this increases (takes more to get you here), and its longevity falls… passionate love / infatuation is really based around a feeling of not being in control, of needing the other person, and of the other person being a "scarce resource"… the more experienced you are, the less scarce a resource your mates tend to seem to be, and the less out of control you are - you've been here and done this before already. There are still exceptions to that - you meet a guy who blows your previous lovers out of the water in terms of looks, personality, etc., and suddenly you feel like a teenager again - but it's mostly dependent on meeting men the likes of whom you have little or no experience with… which becomes increasingly rarer as you gain more experience (and especially as you date more and more of those men you feel passion for).

If you're more experienced but find yourself in a relationship with a man who can make you feel out of control (by doing things unexpected / breaking form with the previous relationship patterns you've experienced in former lovers), he can inspire this passionate love here too. Can also happen after a particularly big drama fight if the guy shuts down the drama strongly enough while still maintaining your trust and faith in the relationship - you'll feel as though he's made you "submit", which gives you the out of control feeling, and stirs up passion for a while, until things settle back into routine.

Another thing that makes a big difference, somewhat separate from experience levels, is time orientation; people who are present-oriented, because they're feeling just right now in the moment, tend to go on constant emotional roller coaster rides with every new person, compared to, say, future-oriented people, who sit there and imagine how things will play out based on previous experiences, and feel little mystery, intrigue, or suspense - or, for that matter, passion.

So, there are always roads to passion! They just become a little harder to find as you get more experienced. It's kind of like getting excited about Christmas - easy when you're a child and there's so much mystery and Santa's sliding down chimneys and leaving you presents and what not… the mystery somewhat fades out of it, and the excitement dies down as you age, but… every now and again… something happens that lets you feel a little bit of that magic once again.

Chase

BBJW's picture

Getting inexperienced girls to chase


Hey Chase,

It seems like you always post articles as I need them! Currently, I've been dating this girl for two months. We go to highschool together and are basically in the same group of friends. Niether of us have had a serious relationship in the past. So, it seems like I end up putting most of the work into the relationship. It's not that she doesn't like me, as much as that she's really shy, nervous and awkward. I would love to be able to denote more responsibility to her as far as our relationship goes, but don't know how to do that. What do you do to get an inexperienced girl to pursue a man/relationship, when she had no idea what she's chasing after?

Thanks for the continued support,

BBJW

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Getting inexperienced girls to chase

Author

BB-

I'm not 100% clear on what you're seeking to accomplish - if you're already sleeping with her, there's not really a need to get her chasing anymore; if you want her to pursue locking you down into a committed relationship, just keep giving her amazing sex, and trust that in a little time, she'll do what girls do, and start trying to lock you down.

If that's the case, see this article to get a clearer picture on what to expect:

If you meant that you're going on dates with her but you're not sleeping with her, and you're trying to get her to chase after you, well, there's really not much of a need for her to - she's already got dates with you, and she's got you in her social circle, so you're already providing all the attention and validation and comfort and security she needs, without the scary/messy strings attached to something more than this.

In case your problem is the latter, I'll direct you to these articles:

... but, I'll also caution that I have no experience dating in high school myself, so maybe the rules are different there in ways I couldn't speak to.

Chase

Dr. Dan's picture

Ouch...


Your article hit home once i stopped about 1/3rd of the way in and said "Waitaminute...That's...oh jesus" because i then realized how inexperienced that last girlfriend really was. The 6 points you call out nailed it to a tee - even though she was a stripper, and had guys at her beck and call, as an older guy it was...shocking to see the instant deep level of trust..desperate trust.

Thanks sir. Gotta go pull this dagger out of my heart.

Ouch...

...Still miss her...

Chase Amante's picture

Inexperienced Stripper

Author

Dan-

One caveat to the list of traits above might be "Throw these out the window if she's a pro." Women in the adult services industry - strippers, escorts, and prostitutes in particular - tend to have reams and reams of experience dealing with men, and know exactly what buttons to push to make men fall for them and turn into heroic white knights willing to be there ready to save them at the drop of a pin.

I've had strippers and prostitutes I've taken to bed who perfectly emulated the most trusting inexperienced women you could ever hope to meet - they were positively endearing, and absolutely brutally efficient at extracting whatever kind of value out of men they cared to extract (in the sweetest way possible - they'd extract that value, and you'd be happy they extracted it).

Chase

Witt's picture

Hi Chase, I've been reading


Hi Chase, I've been reading the site for a while and have meant to ask this question for a couple weeks. This seems like a relevant article to ask it on.

I'm a pretty inexperienced guy myself. In fact, I am a virgin. I'm 22 going on 23 and figure it's about time I take the plunge. I wanted to hold out for a "dream girl" (though this site has made me realize this is unreasonable, I won't be able to get a girl like that, much less hang onto her, without any experience). I knew intuitively that passive value would be crucial, I guess you refer to this as fundamentals. I definitely don't have them down pat, but I'm to the point where I seem to get initial attraction from most girls I meet and my female friends tell me their girlfriends think I'm really cute/wanted to know if I was single (though these are reactions and not results). I've hooked up with a few girls and escalation was pretty effortless, but I wasn't ready to take the plunge with a girl who wasn't "top notch".

This site has helped me deconstruct my fairy tale ideal of finding my dream girl and living happily ever after. I now want to gain a lot of experience as it will help me with the stunners.

Here's my concern, I'm guessing I'm probably going to suck in bed when I start sleeping with girls. As I see it, I've got two options. One: find a fuck buddy and learn the ropes with her. I worry that with my lack of abundance mentality and the cascading emotions for inexperienced lovers that you speak of above, I won't be able to resist falling for her if I'm sleeping with her regularly. I'm not ready to fall for a girl; I want to have more experience under my belt. The other option: game and sleep with as many girls as possible to gain experience and an abundance mentality. The issue here is I'm worried I won't become good in bed without a consistent lover, and I don't want to leave a string of disappointed girls in my wake (shitty experience for them, bad karma for me).

What would you recommend for an aspiring seducer in my situation? Am I just over thinking everything?

I'd also like to say thanks for everything you do on this site. The articles you write are always clearer, better thought out and several layers more nuanced than anything I find on other sites. I really appreciate what you're doing for us.

Thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Sexual Experience

Author

Witt-

Yep - this one's just a case of overthinking.

It's almost impossible to learn most sex skills outside of a relationship of some kind - it's just too hard to know if you're doing things better than last time or worse than last time if you're trying to compare one girl's reactions with you now to a totally different girl's reactions with you last time. Some women are just easily multi-orgasmic, while some women are highly orgasm-resistant, for instance; some women are moaners, some are not. Trying to get good at sex off of one night stands is like comparing apples to oranges to coconuts to dragon fruit.

So, you'll either need a friend-with-benefits, or just a regular old girlfriend to get this down. I wouldn't worry about sucking too much at the beginning - read up on fingering and oral sex techniques, as these can be faster to master, and know your sex positions and techniques (plenty of stuff on it on this site to get you started), and you can very quickly become at least an average lover, which is better than what many women experience much of the time.

Chase

Dr Mcninja's picture

Girls can always be a mix of


Girls can always be a mix of this right?
I have a girl which confuses me quite a bit, she seems on one side to be very inexperienced, how she reacts, how she thinks, etc. But at the same time after a little wall was gone, she seems very sexual, in sex talk, etc. Very explicit with what she wants.

She claims even tough she had a few boyfriends she never loved any of them, so she didn't have sex with them.

Is she most probably lying about her experience? (I don't care if she is experienced, but I do care about honesty). Or is she just an inexperienced girl with a high sexual drive?
Which do you think it's most probable?

Chase Amante's picture

Sex Talk

Author

Dr-

Hard to say. Some inexperienced girls (the ones with strong personalities) can be pretty vocal and demanding about what they want to try, especially if they view you as a lover or a very nonjudgmental, dominant male - i.e., someone they respect as a sexual instructor, and don't necessarily see as someone they'll stick around with forever, even if they really like him (and hence, not someone they need to work overtime to impress with how much of a good girl they are).

I've had girlfriends who've only had a few mediocre sex partners before ask early into a relationship for anal sex or a threesome. At first, it's surprising; but what it usually is is this is something she's curious about that she's read about / seen on Sex and the City / etc., and sees you as the perfect guy to try it with - maybe an opportunity she'll never have again, with a far more "serious" boyfriend.

And, occasionally, you'll meet the free spirit inexperienced girls who just have no filter and would ask you for these things regardless, even if you were the most conservative guy in the world, because they see nothing wrong with them and neither should you (they think).

More experienced women will tend to guide you more smoothly and seductively into what they want, rather than blurt it out or be over-the-top explicit. Again, the inexperienced girl is the blunter of the two.

Chase

Nathan's picture

Exclusivity and inexperienced women


Hey Chase,

I've been on one date with this 18 yr old girl who has about zero experience with men. She's cautious but quite obviously she likes me already. Like you mentioned, she told me she would like it to be exclusive between us. I played it off a bit then told I'll make sure she feels comfortable before we do anything.

Is there a way to run it with an inexperienced girl so the exclusivity thing doesn't really come up?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Exclusivity and inexperienced women

Author

Nathan-

Well, you're treading on very delicate ground here - especially if she's as inexperienced as you say, you're forming the initial impressions that are going to guide all of her future interactions with men. There's a strong need to handle her with kid gloves and not damage her.

Additionally, if you're getting requests for exclusivity, you're probably spending enough time with her and doing enough things in the time you spend together that she's getting the impression that the two of you are boyfriend-girlfriend (or heading right for boyfriend-girlfriend territory). It's very important that you not set those expectations if that is not what you want.

I'd recommend these articles for where to take things from here:

Chase

340Breeze's picture

There's always two sides to a coin


How do you marry the law of least effort with a reserved who doesn't talk much? Vivacious girls tend to do alot of talking and when they do, interactions are easier from an effort standpoint. They talk, you respond. However some reserved inexperienced girls seem to need a guy that invests more energy, time, thought into the flow of conversation. You talk, they respond.

Also one thing with reserved girls I've met (from America vs elsewhere) that I've noticed is that most required being told what to do (aka explicitly making them invest vs them auto-investing in me). Some seem to just want a boss that does most of the thinking, plotting, planning, and they just follow along for the ride. They want a man that can make it as effortless for them (to hang back and respond to the man's frames, invitations, etc) as possible. In other words they seemed like a value sink, they get to be sucked into my world, but their worlds didnt offer anything all that novel to me for long. On the upside, it was great to be able to practice being more dominant and in control. Commanding a woman and she listens. Kinda made hard the first times that happened. But the problem though is i got bored after a while, i kinda felt like i was being robbed of value, having to plan/do almost everything.

whereas with a couple of experienced women that I was lucky to meet, they were master conversationalists and knew more of what they wanted out of life. Meaning interactions with them were more effortless and easy meaning that we could synergize more and just have amazing times. But they were also masters of frame control and were on the dominant side meaning if I ever had to deal with drama, I had my work cut out for me. But on balance, I prefer a wan who brings more to the table in terms of her knowing what she wants/needs and having more confidence in expressing them.

Cheers,

340Breeze.

Chase Amante's picture

Doing Things in Relationships

Author

Breeze-

Less active women are pretty easy - use deep diving during dates to keep them talking, focus on probing their past and their motivations, and just keep escalating things until they start resisting, or end up in your bed. In relationships - why do you need to do anything at all? I just invite them over, we sleep together, and that's it. I may ask them to bring meals, or I may ask them to cook when they come over, or I might order a pizza and we'll just have sex.

The feeling that you "have to do something" is I think more of a city-dweller's "must be on the go at all times!" feeling than anything else - I felt this for a few years when I first started dating, until one day I looked at it and said, "Wait a minute - if the GIRL doesn't want to plan out anything to do, and *I* don't want to plan out anything to do… why can't I just invite her over, and we don't do anything but chit-chat a little, and then have sex? And we'll just do that every time?"

I then transitioned all of my relationships to this format, even the go-go-go girls. Way easier, and far less time-consuming. If there's something I want to do, and I want some female companionship, I'll invite a girl along; otherwise, if there's nothing I want to do, I won't do anything. And, if you want to do something, but you don't know what, it's easy enough to task a girlfriend to find something: "Hey, let's do a day trip on Sunday. Can you figure out a cool place around here that'd be worth exploring, figure out what the 2 or 3 best things to see there are, and find a nice restaurant for us to eat at?" Boom - now you've got instant weekend day trip plans, and she'll be thrilled to look them up, with just a little direction from you.

In the thick of my social learning curve, I greatly preferred girlfriends who had a lot going on, because these were the girls who had the most to teach me - they'd get me to all kinds of events, meeting all kinds of people, and pushing my boundaries in many ways I might not otherwise have pushed them. But once you do that for a few years, you've pretty much done all these things a dozen times each, and they become far less interesting. It's easy enough to screen for if you want it - just ask her what she does for fun outside the house, and she's either going to light up her eyes and have a laundry list of things she does (she's a go-go-go girl), or she's going to "Ummm" and "Ahhh" or tell you flat out that she doesn't really do anything outside the home. Or, she might have a few things, but they're all girly things that you'd never join her for: mimosas Sunday mornings with the girls, for instance. There are plenty of either type out there - most important thing though is figuring out what you want, why you want it - and then going out and screening for it and getting it.

Chase

Gem's picture

Hey Chase This is really


Hey Chase

This is really accurate; it’s cool and feels pretty amazing/astonishing the first times around with a girl like this when you see how little time you’ve known the girl and in relation to that how deeply she trusts you and has fallen for you. In the article I think you mentioned making sure not to break the girl’s heart and that’s something to keep in mind with girls like this; I really love many of the girls like this though that are sweet, loyal and not too experienced but not too emotional (preferably) to compliment this. I see an inexperienced girl like this as kind of like a puppy: she can be sweet, genuine and loyal, you can give her your warmth and cuddle with her and she will give it all back to you, and you can teach her new tricks! Haha a good type of girl

I’ve been thinking more deeply and analytically about types of women, the type of girls I’m into, and what is suitable/what the standards or proper traits should be for a woman you want to be the mother of your children.

I’m fairly sure not all guys that are players are into the same type of woman: some guys may prefer a more emotional girl who needs them more or want a girl who has more experience opposed to less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKbN6fM3l3M

The girl from the video is Alice Eve; I think most of the women of Hollywood are quite whatever, or not real etc. but I find her, as a package, very definitively attractive and roughly the type of girl that I like to date. I think that I happen to be into the same type of girl you are Chase: a girl that is more rational than emotional, attractive but fairly conservative, intelligent, independent, goal-oriented, open-minded etc.

Where I have been confused lately is that these traits describe a more masculine woman (which I am characteristically attracted to) and when picking a mate shouldn’t a woman be more feminine? Here I mean a feminine woman in that she will have an emotional side to her that will want to be a good mother who is there a good deal of time for the children (and here career and actively moving forward has to take some sacrifice; both paths of career and family can’t be equally embarked).

I have noticed that while I am into masculine women part of me does screen for how a woman is with kids, how her relationship with children and her family is, and essentially I think I sort of assess (part consciously and part unconsciously) if the woman is mom material or not.

Something interesting to add here is that most of the girls that I’ve dated have been more masculine, rational types and in correlation to that have been somewhat less into kids or even not interested in having kids. I’ve had girl friends in social circle (can’t date a girl like this personally) who are much more emotional, clingy, feminine natured girls and these are the girls on the other hand I’ve seen who can’t wait to have kids.

Also out of what I’ve observed of different mentors of mine, men who settled down with a feminine woman tended to lead a more conservative life as opposed to the guys like you Chase who did not stay with a feminine girl and dated more masculine women and a seemingly subsequent more unconventional life (maybe it’s not a direct correlation but I feel like some latent pattern is perhaps there).

Which is preferable (if one can be outright said better over the other) more masculine or feminine characteristic women? Or perhaps the two aren’t mutually exclusive and a hybrid of the two types is possible/ideal. I’m sort of attracted to both types and don’t often find a mixing of the traits i.e. a girl that is really into career but also really into kids; and so I wonder here what would be ideal for me and what the proper mix for a girl that I may want to settle down and have kids with would be.

-Gem

Chase Amante's picture

Personalities and Settling Down / Mothers of Children

Author

Gem-

That video of Alice Eve is a nice one; I wasn't terribly impressed with her in Star Trek, but in that interview she's very likeable - and yeah, that's basically the kind of really sincere, upbeat, inquisitive personality I find most appealing in a girl.

There's no right or wrong about whether to go for a softer or a stronger personality girl; I've found I bore too quickly with soft personality girls, personally, so tend to prefer stronger women - on the "4 Kinds of Girls" scale, I like TR/INs best.

One thing I wouldn't worry about much is maternal instincts; women tend to fall in love with their children pretty quickly, especially if:

  • They're already positive / upbeat / happy people
  • They respect and look up to the child's father
  • They have a reasonably safe and secure living environment

I've seen a fair amount of girls who had zero interest in animals or children make the seamless transition to devoted mother - it's surprising the first few times you see it, but becomes old hat after none too long. I wouldn't even consider "likes children and animals" a major thing to screen for in picking out a good potential mother - how she feels about other people's children and animals has nothing to do with how she feels about her own (I've also seen the converse - women who really love animals who have little patience for their own children; or women who love kids, but who find their own children disappointing).

Many career women view careers as their pathway to securing a stable future and a high caliber man - if you come along as a high caliber man and you've already set yourself up well financially / economically, you're likely not going to have to fight her to get her to stay at home - she'll stay at home after the birth of the first child, and then, because there are no money problems and she has everything she wants and she's become very attached to the child, unless she's an uber-career woman, she might feel a little antsy but otherwise not go back to work. The families in which women head back to work most quickly are the ones that need her paycheck most desperately, plainly and simply.

Chase

Dave's picture

Girlfriend feels like I don't need her


Chase,

I'm gonna keep this short. I have been dating this girl for a few months now and everything has been great up to this point. I really love her but overtime I have gotten actually pretty decent at making women chase me. I haven't been in this situation yet actually but my girlfriend let me know today that she feels like "I don't need her" and it makes her feel bad...I was kind of stumbled and not even sure if I responded correctly. Maybe I am too aloof and the opposite of not clingy...honestly I just told her that I loved her and I see a future with her. And then she just said I guess.

Sorry this comes off noobish. I kept my cool in responding to her emotional need here but I was stumbled. And the reason I'm stumbled now is because I actually do love her and this is effecting me.

-Dave.

Likesgoodgirls's picture

Shy girls and mixed messages?


Hi Chase,

Could you help me? Being driven crazy. There's this shy girl I chased and got her to agree readily enough for a first date. She was studying for finals and gave in easily to a "quick" dinner, that turned into a long dinner, and then eagerly accepted post-dinner coffee, and I ended up bringing her home fairly late. The ending was a bit awkward, it seemed like she couldn't decide what to do, but we hugged a goodbye at the end.

I called her the next day (I generally try to wait a little longer but issues would have forced me to wait a week if I didn't call) to ask her for a second date. She said she has projects and finals and may be a few weeks before she has time. I would've accepted a week or even two. I said if she has a few a little time to spare we should go out. She asked if she could respond next week to see how things are turning out.

That is the most infuriating answer I've ever received. I can't tell if I got politely rejected or she's unsure, or really is way too busy. She tried deflecting the first date with saying she has homework but when I insisted on dinner, it then blossomed into a full night's date. Now she's using the school thing again, but agreed to re-discuss it next week. How should I proceed on this one?

Anonymous's picture

Really inexperienced girls


Great article Chase, it's exactly what I was after. Everything you've said is spot on.

I've just had a first date with a really inexperienced girl - I mean she hasn't even had her first kiss and she's 23. While we had great conversation where she opened up to me, but I found it really hard to escalate and frame the interaction in a sexual way, because it would get really awkward really fast from her. I also found it really hard to go for the kiss with her. For someone like this, do I have to take it slower? How different should my approach be and how hard should I push her to close the deal?

I like her so I don't plan on dropping her after the second date if I haven't closed the deal by then and would like to explore a relationship with her (if I can ever close the deal!).

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