Tactics Tuesdays: Move Girls


move girlsIf you've been reading this site a while, I'm sure you've seen me recommend again and again that you move girls to get them committed to the interaction with you.

You might have wondered exactly what that meant though, or exactly how to do it.

It's a surprisingly simple piece of advice - "move girls" - but it makes a huge difference in how your interactions go. In fact, it's hands down my favorite exercise to do with coaching clients. Typically we go out, work on a little basic opening, some initial conversation, and then, the meat - I tell a guy, "All right, next, I want you to start moving these girls."

I've seen this called "isolation" in some places, "extraction" in others. It's been given lots of longwinded technical explanations, like you need to move women in order to get them away from their friends, who'll interfere... or something like that.

This is not so. Friends don't make much of a difference. What DOES make a difference is getting girls to commit to talking with you - and following your lead.

And that's necessary for a couple of different reasons.

 

Why to Move Girls

Back when I first started going out to meet women in bars, nightclubs, cafeterias, and the like, it went well for a while, but I quickly hit a wall. For some reason, no matter what I did, I couldn't seem to get conversations with new women to progress beyond flirting, banter, and polite conversation.

I knew how to attract women, I reasoned. At least, they certainly seemed to be attracted enough.

But I just couldn't make anything happen.

And then I started asking girls to move with me.

It's a funny thing that the scariest part of trying to move girls is the fear that maybe this girl is going to say "no." You think to yourself that if you ask her to move, and she says no... well, it's pretty much dead at that point. You just asked for a pretty big heap of investment, and she said no, so precedent is now stacked against you. Game over, you lose.

So, you wait and wait and wait and nothing happens, and eventually she leaves on her own.

For this reason, anxiety about asking a girl to move - or about inviting her home, or about physical escalation - is very similar to the more general approach anxiety you hear so much about. In fact, I consider all of these bigger than approach anxiety - approach anxiety is just about getting you started.

All those other forms of anxiety are about getting you to finish.

The way I see it, the key moments a man fails with a woman who might like him are:

  • He fails to talk to her (approach anxiety)
  • He fails to move her
  • He fails to invite her home
  • He fails to make a move
  • He fails to sleep with her

If you've got a girl who likes you, and you manage to talk to her, move her, invite her home, and physically escalate with her, you're probably going to end up together with her.

Most men don't fail with women because women don't want them, or because they just aren't attractive to women.

Most men fail with women because they just don't do anything.

 

Making Meeting Women a Zero-Sum Game

What's the difference between a polite conversation, and a conversation between two interested parties?

Commitment. Or, investment, or compliance. Call it what you may.

Let's say you'd like to buy a new phone, and you walk into two different phone stores. The following two scenarios occur:

  1. Scenario 1: you meet a phone salesperson who talks to you about what kind of phone you want, then shows you a book of pictures of different phone models, their descriptions, and their prices. He answers any questions you have, but offers nothing beyond this.
  1. Scenario 2: you meet a phone salesperson who talks to you about what kind of phone you want, then invites you to walk over to where the display models are. You go with him, and he hands you the phone he thinks sounds like it's most like what you told him you were looking for. He asks you if you'd like to get the phone today.

Which of those two salespeople are more likely to get your business?

Of course, the salesperson who's taking initiative and leading things toward his best possible outcome (your business) is the one who's most likely to achieve his desired end result.

For practical purposes, you can boil sales down to a zero-sum game: either you get the sale, or you don't (for realistic purposes, there can be other objectives too, but they're usually peripheral to the overarching goal). Meeting women is exactly like this.

Don't think so? Okay, which of these are you really, really hoping will happen when you meet a pretty new girl?:

  • For her to think you'd make a wonderful friend
  • For her to introduce you to her pals and include you in her circle
  • For her to go home with you that night, go to bed with you, and possibly become your lover or girlfriend

It's probably that last one, right?

Well, if that's your goal, you need to approach it as such: make picking up women a zero-sum game.

That is, either you get the girl as your lover, or somebody else gets her and you don't.

And the instant you do that, it becomes a lot easier and a lot less anxiety-provoking to move girls.

 

How to Move Girls (and Get Them Invested in You)

Once you're looking at success with women as zero-sum, moving women becomes a lot more intuitive and a lot more necessary.

I'll share something I've found from my own experience: nothing ever happens with a woman if you can't get her to move with you.

move girls

I've asked a great deal of women to move with me in bars and nightclubs and the street, and in my earlier days I stuck it out with plenty of women who said "no." Findings? I can't recall a single girl I've ever slept with or even gotten a date with who refused moving with me (note: some women initially refuse but move with you after some cajoling; that's different from a hard, unbending "no"; see "Persuading Women").

Eventually, I came to this very simple understanding:

  1. If a girl likes you, she will move with you when you ask her to move in a one-on-one conversation with you

  2. If a girl won't move with you, she doesn't like you enough to commit to an interaction with you, which means it's time for you to move on

There are a few rules you need to follow to maximize your chance of getting a "yes" when going to move girls, of course. And here they are:

  1. Get in a one-on-one conversation with her first. While you can occasionally meet girls in groups, talk to a few of them, then suddenly turn to one you've been ignoring and tell her to move somewhere alone with you and have her say "yes," you stand a better chance of getting a "yes" out of her if you talk to her and build a little connection with her first (although, it's TONS of fun when you pull that first scenario off, and can at times lead to lightning-fast seductions).

  2. Meet the friends if she's in a group. Talk to her friends briefly before going to move her if at all possible. Remember not to break circle and don't spend a great deal of time being a social butterfly with her social circle (they're her circle, not yours; and you want everyone there, her included, to know that you're there for her, not to be chatty with her friends); but do at least exchange names and smiles with them before you drag her off into the darkness.

  3. Give her a time limit if she's in a hurry or occupied. If you're out in a bar, club, or lounge, you can usually skip giving any kind of time constraint. This also applies to relaxed daytime settings, like the beach or a park bench where she's not doing anything. If she's walking somewhere, reading something, typing on a laptop, or otherwise engaged however - you'll usually see this by day - give her a time constraint for moving her when you ask her. "Let's go sit for a few minutes. I won't keep you long, I realize you're busy, but I'd like to get to talk with you for a few before I let you get back to your stuff."

  4. Give yourself a deadline to ask. For me, it's usually "move a girl within 10 minutes of talking to her," in more relaxed settings; this deadline drops the more frenzied and chaotic the setting. So for instance, in a really loud, crazy party environment, it's more like, "move her within a minute of meeting her," because people are moving around so rapidly and you've got to lock things in the moment you meet a cool, pretty girl who likes you before she's pulled away by someone or something else. For very relaxed environments, like the beach, you'll often prefer to wait 15 or 20 minutes to move girls.

  5. Remember that one move doesn't mean your job is done. ... you've still got to take her home, you know! At the very least, you've got to trade phone numbers with her - preferably just after you sit, when she's prime to trade numbers because she's committing to you right then and a number isn't much more commitment, and because you'll be flush off of moving and having her commit so asking for a number then won't feel like too big of a deal. Either way, go for a number right away if you're not sure what you want, or set a deadline to pull her by if you know you intend to take her home. A good deadline is anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes if you're good at forming connections. If you're still learning, and aren't somewhere you'll have other things trying to pull her away, you can aim for up to 90 minutes. After that, things usually start going stale.

Once you start to move women with regularity, you'll notice (as I did) a sudden, dramatic surge in your success with them. And once you've got all four key transition points down:

  • Talk to her
  • Move her
  • Invite her home
  • Make a move on her
  • Sleep with her

you'll look back and realize that, hey, this isn't nearly as hard as you thought it was.

Chase

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Comments

Anon Guy's picture

So it boils down to sleeping with her


Chase, hey,

This is an awesome post and I am religiously reading your down-to-earth blog.

I have a dilemma of not owning my own pad (yet), and if we propose that it is a zero-sum game, and that it all boils down to sleeping with her for the two to become lovers, do you have any practical advise on guys who do not own a convenient, private space to make the magic happen?

I guess back seat of my car could work, but it's not really private, and will probably be a million times harder to pull that off.

But based on countless posts I've read so far from you, it seems like the only way is to bed her some way or another.

Let me know. Thanks!

Chase Amante's picture

Logistics Without a Bed

Author

Hey Anon Guy,

You're basically talking about what I refer to as logistics on the fly - making things happen when you don't have a ready answer for logistics.

In fact, the back seat of a car isn't impossible - in some ways it's even better than a bed! Girls tend to figure out pretty quickly that bed = somewhere they should be on-guard, so you'll get more resistance (see "How to Get a Girl in Bed" for more on that one). Whereas, in the back seat, they don't have that built up autopilot resistance, so it's oftentimes smoother sailing.

I have a Book Excerpts post I was set to have up in a few weeks on logistics-on-the-fly from How to Make Girls Chase. I'll put that one up tomorrow instead, and push the rest of the schedule back a week. Check back tomorrow!

Chase

Just Dave's picture

Never get comfortable


Hey Chase,

I've been having constant results with getting with girls for over the past two months after reading your blog and your book. One thing I want to put emphasis on is never getting too comfortable with a girl before you commit. I almost ran into snags with a girl I've been hooking up with for awhile now. We're not in a relationship or anything like that, she hasn't even questioned what we're doing yet. However, even though I slept with her just the other day I almost missed opportunities to move her. This would be times when I was getting out of class (I'm in college). Even though I moved her eventually, had I waited a little longer I would be paving the way to friend zone or boyfriend zone. I think it would be helpful if you could make a post about keeping hook ups going with constant consistency. I've been keeping logs to ensure, I keep from getting sloppy.

Take care,

Just Dave

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Never get comfortable

Author

Hey JD,

Great to hear about the consistent results you're getting now, man.

That's a good point you raise. You're basically talking about keeping sexual momentum alive with a woman you've already slept with - a crucial part of maintaining any kind of sexual relationship, from the most casual (like yours) to the most formal (like a marriage... many of which become sexless and dead after a while).

That'd make for a good post, yeah - I'll see what I can do.

Chase

Maximus's picture

Sexual Momentum


Hi Chase,

Great content all over this site! I've been reading for a few months & spontanesly meet Ricardus in person a couple weeks ago too. Clearly this is the ideal source of wisdom for me in this area of pickup & women.

That said, I totally agree with just Dave that an article on maintaing Sexual Momentum would be valuable! Like you said both for casual & formal relationships.

I'm currently talking with a girl again that I hooked up with - on the 1st night we meet utilizing some of what I learned from you. The thing is this this was a couple months ago & after meeting up a couple times I wasn't sure how to maintain the momentum which lead to us not talking again till now.

Any feedback on how I/we could not have to come to this by maintain momentum, & maybe also on how to pick up the momentum again if its dropped?

Thanks for sharing with all of this!

All the best Brotha,
Maximus

nit-picker's picture

"zero-sum"


Hey, Chase,

I have been reading your articles for a week or two and have really enjoyed them! Thanks a lot for all your insight and advice.

You probably won't read this as this post is quite old, but I wanted to mention that I think you're using zero-sum in the wrong way here. Treating picking up women as a zero-sum game would mean that you sleeping with her means that you won and she lost and her rejecting you means that she won and you lost. Sleeping with her should be thought of as both of you winning (hence the sum of your "score" is not zero). Zero-sum is a very adversarial way to look at pickup and goes against the general viewpoint of these articles I would think.

I get what you mean, though, about restricting your goals down to just one: get her home with you.

Cheers,
nit-picker

Anonymous's picture

OH, the "move" thing! That's


OH, the "move" thing! That's the link that missed in my flirting chain!

Mark123's picture

Examples of moving


Hi Chase,

I'm just wondering if you could give a few more examples of a "moving" scenario?

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