In the comments section of "Dating Without Sex: Why It Usually Doesn’t Work," Maxz had a comment about how to get first date sex:
“Totally right on Chase.
All the girls I have lost are girls I moved slow with, and did not give them what they wanted meaning sex. After I discovered this site, I learnt my lesson in the move fast department. Every girl I meet these days I'm trying to move fast with. From getting them out on a date and so on.
But a question I had for you Chase is I'm still having trouble in the sexual escalation part. How do you get intimate with a girl on date number one and not prolonging dates to two or three before you bed a girl?”
In case you're new here and unfamiliar with the mantra of this site, it's "move fast, skip steps where you can, and take women to bed as soon as possible if you want to stand the greatest chance of keeping them around." The rationale, of course, is that it's easier to keep dating a girl you're already lovers with... than one you aren't.
But what about getting to intimacy on the first date? Can you really get first date sex with girls with any degree of consistency?
Or is it just a myth?
I have a confession to make. Before I spent much time learning about getting girls, and even for some time after, I really, truly believed that only "easy" girls slept with someone on the first date.
I believed that, if a girl went to bed with a guy, and it was only the first time they were going out together... well... clearly, she was the kind of girl who just does that with everyone!
This was not what you might call a "helpful mentality." In fact, it hurt me quite a bit. It led to me:
Losing girls that part of me knew wanted me quite badly, because my logical mind kicked in and told me, "Look man, it's only the first date... and she's not that kind of girl! So just hold off."
Projecting my own mentality onto women through my words, actions, and subcommunication, leading to them acting conservative and cagey around me where most of the time they were not that way.
Making women around me uncomfortable, because they could tell that I was judging them: either a girl was a "good girl," or she was not.
You could probably just chalk this off as being the "inexperienced guy's mentality" about first date sex. True, I didn't have experience... but I was certain that this was the way it was!
When I used to talk to other guys learning how to get girls early on in my growth curve, I'd frequently hear them saying you could take "pretty much any girl" to bed quickly enough if you pushed the right buttons on her. Poppycock! I told them. I'd had some girls come to bed with me fast too, but that's because they were the kind of girls who did that! There were OTHER girls... more CONSERVATIVE girls... who simply did not go for that kind of thing.
They were different.
I was certain of it. Totally certain. But my certainty did not come from experience... it came from speculation.
And speculation is the mother of all incorrect assumptions.
You Are Your Ideals
Jonathan Haidt, a professor of psychology at New York State University’s Stern School of Business, came up with something based on his research into the mindset differences between liberals and conservatives he called the "Moral Foundations Theory." In his time spent examining the predispositions of individuals on both sides of the moral spectrum, he found six different moral foundations which influence someone's perception of the world, and how he views and feels about things morally. They are:
Care/harm: kindness and nurturance geared at keeping others safe and away from damage and harm.
Fairness/cheating: reciprocity and proportionality, generating justice, rights, and autonomy.
Liberty/oppression: reaction and resentment to being oppressed or dominated, and in tension with #5, authority.
Loyalty/betrayal: in-group cohesion, patriotism, and self-sacrifice for the good of the group.
Authority/subversion: deference to legitimate authority, respect for traditions, and adherence to the hierarchy.
Sanctity/degradation: extends out of disgust and contamination, and views immoral activities as contaminants. Leads to striving for nobility.
What Haidt found regarding the difference in the valuation of each of these six elements was quite fascinating. He found this:
The more liberal someone is, the more the first two elements (care/harm and fairness/cheating) become all important, and the less the last four elements matter.
The more conservative someone is, the more all six elements are weighed to be of equal importance.
This leads to some rather intractable problems when you have liberal-minded individuals and conservative-minded individuals debating with each other over one thing or another. The liberal may want to do something that makes things more "fair" for someone, while the conservative may view this action as a "betrayal" or "subversive." The liberal, in turn, wonders how the conservative can possibly support "cheating" by his opposition to the action.
What I quickly realized as I began learning seduction was that I was very conservatively-minded by nature, while almost everyone who was any kind of significant figure in the seduction field was liberal.
And we had very different ways of viewing things.
But, my goal was not to moralize; rather, it was to learn, to improve myself, and to cast aside my own prejudices and inhibitions. I could never adopt the free-wheeling (to me) mindset of the majority of seducers, but I could certainly figure out where they had points, and where I was wrong, and where I could stand to learn a thing or two.
And with time, one of the areas I learned I was wrong was with getting to sex on the first date. For as much as my conservative predispositions made me want (in those days) to believe that there are just some girls out there who cannot be "turned" to first date sex, the more experienced I gained as a seducer, the more I found myself disproving this notion, and proving the notion of my more liberally-minded friends.
First Date Sex... with Conservative Girls
When I was new to picking up girls, I assumed that most women are too conservative for first date sex. And that, if you did happen to sleep with a girl on the first date whom you thought was conservative, well... obviously, your read was off.
But, as I advanced as a seducer, I began to push myself harder to sleep with girls more and more quickly, and I began to take girls to bed more and more consistently on the first date... and many of the ones I didn't I could tell wanted me to, but I simply didn't make the move.
And I began to wonder... are all of these girls open about sex? Are all of them liberal? Every single one? At first I just assumed that if something happened fast with a girl I thought was conservative, I must have just misread her.
But this was happening with almost every girl I got out on a date.
If I'd only been meeting girls in, say, loud, boozy nightclubs, I could chalk that up to picking up girls in a den of iniquity. That would explain it.
But I wasn't. I was meeting girls in :
... yes, but ALSO in:
- Coffee shops
- School alumni events
- Trains and airplanes
- The street
... some of whom had never even BEEN to a bar or a nightclub.
And all these girls reacted almost exactly the same.
Some of them were quite nervous about physical intimacy, while others were clearly confident and in their element. Some of them had no idea what they were doing in bed, while others were pros. Some of them put up a fair amount of last minute resistance before we became lovers, while others virtually tore their clothes off themselves (or literally, in a few cases).
But they all had one thing in common: most of them, when I did things right, went to bed with me on the first date.
How could this possibly be, and how could women move so fast?
In the article about dating without sex, we talked about marriage as a sociocultural construct; basically, something created by culture, not by biology.
If you woke up tomorrow on a deserted island, just you and some girl, and the two of you fell in love, you probably wouldn't ever end up getting "married," because there wouldn't be much point. But you'd still do all the things necessary as biological organisms to mate and reproduce.
Well, at least with marriage, while it isn't biologically based, it's still something pretty ubiquitous throughout most of the world's civilizations. But dating...? How ubiquitous is dating?
Truth is, in most parts of Asia and Africa, "dating" as a concept does not even exist. Even in North America, the originator of dating, the tradition itself only stretches back to after the Gilded Age; it's only about a hundred years old. Prior to the turn of the 20th century, the phrase "go on a date" meant a man was buying time with a prostitute.
So when I hear all the noise and hubbub about how you "shouldn't have sex before the third date" or you see women preaching from the rooftops about how they "simply won't have sex before at least the tenth date," I write it off as ridiculous carrying on about rigid, arbitrary rules surrounding a tradition that's existed for a mere blink of the eyes in cultural time, and already shows signs of wearing pretty thin (how many people do you know who regularly "go on dates" anymore?).
There is no biological rule ingrained in the female human mind that says, "There must be three (3) discrete dates before mating may occur." No; dating is a cultural construct, with precisely zero basis in biology except for this:
Females of the species need to be able to assess a male's mating value and quality.
That's it. That's the purpose that dating serves today; it's a vetting period, to replace the courtship process of bygone years.
And all vetting procedures have three elements in place:
- A logical element,
- An emotional element, and
- A logistical element.
And if you can remove any logical objection for why a woman should not sleep with you right now... and if you can remove any emotional objection for why a woman should not sleep with you right now... and if you can remove any logistical reason why a woman should sleep right now... guess what?
She's going to sleep with your right now.
The Psychology of First-Date Sex
We get a fair amount of female commenters on this site (in light of its target demographic, in any event), representing a fairly even dispersion of opinions:
Half of them say, "Actually, this is surprisingly true... I didn't think a men's dating site would pin down female logic and behavior so well, but you've got it."
And the other half say, "Go screw yourself! Never in a million years would I do what you're saying women do! You don't know women AT ALL!"
(Usually I just delete the latter comments, since this is a place for well-reasoned, balanced arguments, and not for vitriol-laden diatribes aimed at relieving the angry individual's emotional angst; for the record, I also normally delete the "Women are evil and don't make sense at all!" comments from bitter men, too)
That caveat is in there just so that when you see the "Women aren't like this at all / you must only be sleeping with SLUTS but I'm a good girl and would NEVER do this!" remarks in the comments section, you know where it's coming from: women who aren't emotionally in-tune with the article.
What happens is, most women who get upset read or hear something like how women go to bed with men quickly in the right situations with the right men, and their hackles go up, they get defensive, and they react to it the way they would if someone personally attacked their ego, self-image, or reputation.
But I'm not attacking anyone personally. I'm talking about human beings, meeting, attracting, and mating.
And when a woman meets a man who makes her FEEL completely full of lust, and desire, and raw, throbbing, potent sexual need... when she sees NO REASON to object to going to bed with this man right now and taking him as her lover... when she will never see him again, and no one will ever know, and her body aches for him as it has never ached for anything else... and when it just happens, and suddenly they are alone, and he is on her, kissing her, touching her, bringing her to the point of surrender... then yes; even for a normally conservative girl, she will release her hold on logic and rigid rules, and she will take this man she longs for as her lover... even if it is the first and last time they will ever see each other.
Why First-Date Sex is the Best Sex
But why all the hoopla about sex on the first date? Why not just wait?
Because, as we discussed in "Attraction Has an Expiration Date," attraction expires. It doesn't last long... like a carton of milk, if you don't down it fast, you may just pour yourself a cup and find it's curdled. And as we discussed in "What Women Want," there really are three categories women are interested in slotting men into: lover, provider, and friend... and the longer you wait, the further out in that circle you tend to go.
That circle ends up looking like this:
The further inward you start in the circle, the better off you are from the outset with a girl. And while it is incredibly easy to move out from an inner circle to an outer circle, it is incredibly difficult to move the other way, from outside to in. It's like fighting a tide trying to pull you out to sea... you can fight it for as long as you want, as hard as you want, but eventually you will wear out, and be swept away like everyone else.
What that means for US, as men interested in being more than just women's friends or potential providers, is that we want to start in the middle - you want to strike a girl as the kind of man she finds:
The more you are these things, the deeper into the circle you start, and the easier a time you will have taking a woman as your lover, partner, or girlfriend.
Now, because attraction expires so quickly, this also means you must take women to bed fast. No horsing around or dilly-dallying; if she likes you, she knows right away, and delaying things, contrary to what conventional dating wisdom prescribes, does not help your chances any.
In fact, it makes them worse... much worse.
When you hear women telling you that a man needs to take his time, move slowly, and take them on lots of date to have a chance, she's talking about having a chance as a boyfriend- or a husband-candidate. She is not talking about having a chance to be the man of her fantasies... the one who walks in, and she knows immediately that she MUST have this man, or she will regret it for the rest of her life... that man will do nothing but annoy her, frustrate her, and madden her by taking it slow.
And that man she needs no long vetting period for; meeting him on a seashore in some exotic locale, or a chance encounter on a train somewhere, or a man who walks up to her on the street, exuding charm, and confidence, and sexual power... she knows this man may not be someone she has in her life for a long time, and there isn't much sense taking him through a long assessment period. She already knows what she needs to know about him: that THIS is a man she WANTS.
First date sex is the best sex because it clears the obstacles out of your way, stops you from wasting time, stops her from wasting time, and gets the two of you in bed together, as lovers, as quickly as possible.
It gives you the freedom to take her as your girlfriend if you so please, or even as your wife. Most of the time, you must be sleeping with a woman before you can move her into any kind of meaningful relationship; and the longer time stretches on before you take her as your lover, the more remote the odds become that you will ever do so.
If it's going to happen, most of the time (there are exceptions, but we're not talking about exceptions here), it's going to happen fast.
Once you've shed the belief telling you sex doesn't happen on the first date, and realized that dates themselves are artificial cultural constructs that the mind doesn't really care that much about, or at least does not care much about when it has powerful reasons to disregard (any more than it cares about always perfectly following other arbitrary rules, like making sure you remain precisely inside the painted lines of the crosswalk as you cross the street, or that you make sure to always remain under the speed limit when driving, especially if you have compelling reasons to violate these rules), you can focus your energies onto reaching intimacy on the first date.
But... and here's the question on everybody's minds... how do you create those compelling-enough reasons that even a girl who's accustomed to rigidly, conservatively following to the letter even the most arbitrary and inane of rules will drop her rigid, conservative tendencies and simply surrender to her passions for you? How's that work?
To do this, it all ties back to those three elements we mentioned a little earlier:
- The logical element,
- The emotional element, and
- The logistical element.
... in ascending order of importance. If you can handle all three of these elements, you can achieve first-date sex with nigh any girl you go out with.
Let's have a look at what each of those three elements entails.
#1: The Logical Element of First-Date Sex
Ah, logic. Something of vague and maligned importance in the world of seduction; you've heard comedians tell jokes about women not needing to make sense; you've heard the term "chick logic;" you've probably even heard me chastise you to stop using logic and start using emotions with women.
Yet, logic does serve its place: both in addressing women's objections and in setting up plausible deniability prior to intimacy. It also has a large part to play in congruency; if the things about you don't logically add up, that's a red flag to women - who are always on the lookout for lies and inconsistencies - that you aren't a straight shooter or you've got something to hide.
Logic isn't as important to seduction as emotions or logistics are,
but it still has a substantial impact, and it isn't something to be
ignored or dismissed.
The confusing thing for beginners at getting good with girls is that, if you're a man accustomed to talking to other male friends, logic is often the underpinning of your conversation, with emotion the window dressing. You'll have a conversation, a debate, a discussion, and it's all about advancing some rational point, or the sharing of useful, practical information. Emotions like excitement or sadness are normally just used as color to make the conveying of this information less dry.
With women though, it's the complete opposite - emotion is the underpinning, with logic the window dressing. The important thing is conveying emotionally-meaningful content - logic is just the icing on the cake to make the conveyance of that emotion presentable.
What this means for you is that, just as you use different emotions to get across whatever point you're trying to make with a man, you use different logic to get across whatever emotion you're trying to communicate with a woman.
Confused yet? Don't be. It works like this:
The objective of a "point" in women's conversation is to convey a certain emotion, want, need, or desire.
Logic will be adopted - whatever logic best fits - in order to best communicate that emotion in a way that seems to make sense.
Whether that logic makes sense or not does not matter, so long as it seems to and it gets the emotional point across.
A woman might say to you, "I can't go home with you, I'm sorry... I have to get up early tomorrow," when it's only 8:30 PM at night. Logically, this doesn't make much sense - even if she's getting up at 7 AM, so long as you have her back before 11 PM, she's still going to get a full night's sleep. What she's using this logic to convey, however, is an emotion of preferring not to go home with you (for whatever reason; usually that you made a mistake somewhere along the line or didn't come across as enough of a sexy man to get her going).
Conversely, a woman might tell you, "I'm sleepy," as a prompt for you to take her home. Again, logically, this makes little sense; if she's SLEEPY, she'd want to go home and go to sleep... ALONE! Yet, most of the time you hear, "I'm sleepy," it actually means, "I want you to take me home... just the two of us." But it sounds like it makes sense, and it conveys the emotion she wants to convey, so that's all that counts.
You can quickly see why so many men end up frustrated and sometimes bitter when they first start trying to really work at their abilities with women. To a man who's thinking logic first, emotion second, too much is happening that doesn't make sense.
But with women, your logic must serve emotions, and not the other way around. That's the only way you get consistent progress with women, and it's the only way you take girls to bed on the first date.
To get women, think like a woman.
That means, you do or say what you WANT... then throw some logic over top of it as window dressing.
"Let's move over there, it's really crowded over here." You can use this line to move girls, and it's typically accepted without question. Seems to make sense. Except, it's useful even when it ISN'T that crowded, or the place you're moving to is MORE crowded. Because the logic ISN'T what's important here; it's the emotion ("Hey, let's go somewhere together"), with the logic simply used as window dressing to make the emotion communicated presentable.
"Let's go for just five minutes, and then you can go, I promise." This sounds ridiculous to any man inexperienced in overcoming resistance from women who are on the fence about him; what good's five more minutes of chatting to her going to do? You might as well just let her leave. But to the man who's socially attuned, it isn't about the five minutes; the five minutes are just window dressing. What's REALLY being conveyed is, "I like you and I want you to come with me," and when the woman decides to do so, she is changing her mind and saying, "Okay... I like you too. I change my mind; I'll accompany you." It almost never ends up being just five minutes she goes with you for, and much of the time you can take this girl to bed later.
"It's too hot in here for this." Believe it or not, this is one of those magic escalation lines you can use when a girl is resisting you taking her shirt or pants or bra or underwear off... and it works. But only when she's emotionally ready for it. What happens is, prior to sex (especially prior to first-date sex!) a lot of women's minds start racing with concerns, and their logical brains try to erect some roadblocks to sex to control their emotional brains from simply taking over and having them surrender to this man they find attractive and desirable. But as soon as you start giving reasons for your actions that the logical brain has even a smidgen of difficulty refuting, emotional overrides kick in and she does what she wants instead of what she thinks she "should" do... even if it really isn't all that hot.
That's just a smattering of examples, but you get the point. The point is, your logic doesn't need to be impeccable with women... it just needs to get the emotional point across that you're trying to communicate.
The main things you need to work around logically with women are objections:
- Isn't it too soon for us to go to bed together?
- Shouldn't I wait? He'd make a fantastic boyfriend.
- I don't know if I want to risk losing him as a friend just to sleep with him.
- It's better if my friends don't see us acting too couple-y together.
- Do I want to give this guy more time? I don't know...
- Should I go meet my friend as planned, or keep spending time with him?
- Shouldn't I be getting ready to go to bed soon? I DO have to get up early.
- Shouldn't I be keeping myself under control? I've been hooking up too much.
- Am I sure this is a guy I like? He seems a little too slick for me.
- Am I sure this is a guy I like? He seems a little unsure of himself.
... things like that. You need to be good at brushing objections off with quick, simple, logical-seeming replies, and then focus on addressing the emotional root of the issue.
Which brings us to the emotional element.
#2: The Emotional Element of First-Date Sex
Next up on our list is the emotional element of first-date sex, the second most important element (after logistics). What's the difference between Fabio and a creepy guy? The emotions each arouses in women.
Being able to arouse the right emotions is a key skill for not just first-date intimacy, but for anyone who wants to do anything with women at all. And it works both ways.
Skeptical? Pay attention to which woman gets more attention the next time you're out somewhere... is it the most beautiful woman... or the most sexy woman?
It's surprising if you've never paid much attention to it before, but the most sexy woman is almost never the most beautiful woman. Beautiful women are women who've simply been born with good genetics; sexy women are women who've worked to turn themselves into individuals who inspire the right emotions in others. The result? Most of the leading actresses in Hollywood are sexy, not beautiful, and most of the most alluring women you'll see in real life are too.
Sex appeal; something that's learned, not something innate. Things like charisma, charm, elegance, luster; the things that make you most emotionally appealing are the ones you can learn.
Most of these we've discussed fairly in-depth on this site already; for review, here they are:
to Be a Sexy Man
- The 9 Secrets to Being a
- How to Be Edgy (and Turn Women On)
- How to Pick Up
Girls: The Success Factor, Part I
- The 3 Things
to Know If You Want to Be Charismatic
- How to Be an Alpha Male -- Without Becoming a Stereotype
- How to Be
Smooth with Women (and Take More Lovers)
- Take the Edge Off: Using Humbleness Like an Elite Man
- Secrets to Getting Girls: Staying Out of Auto-Rejection
- Sprezzatura, Effort,
- Dialing Down the Value Volume
Some of these are things you can tweak fairly easily; some of them take time. These are the fundamental aspects of you, how you come across, and the feeling you give women. There are other aspects of hitting the emotional triggers to get women primed and ready for intimacy quickly, however; and we've covered these in most of the following articles on the specifics of your interactions:
- Get to Know a Girl: Connection-Building
- Secrets to Getting Girls: The Art of the Deep Dive
- How to Build an Emotional Connection
- How to Be Playful: 4 Tips You'll NEED
to Flirt with a Girl
Seem like a lot to cover? It should... this is the part of seduction most guys get wrong. And, it's the hardest part to get down. How do you inspire the right emotions in the women you meet?
There are no shortcuts to getting the emotional element down - you've simply got to chip away at it. Anyone who tells you you can reliably take girls to bed on the first date without taking time to get down the emotional element first is leaving out a big part of the picture.
You can get girls in bed with you quickly when you're not strong with emotions... but it's going to be rare, and it's going to be hard. By becoming the kind of man women respond to emotionally - that they desire, long for, and find attractive - and by interacting with women in a way that most inspires they excitement, intrigue, and interest, you enable yourself to begin pulling off rapid seductions increasingly quickly, and increasingly more easily.
#3: The Logistical Element of First-Date Sex
Now for the most important element.
But wait, you say; with all the emphasis we just put on the emotional element of getting to sex quickly... and with as much comprehensive coverage of the entire interaction, conversation, and seduction as logic and emotion together have... how can we possibly say that logistics are the most important element to quick, first-date sex?
Simple: by pure default, if you have no logistics, you cannot have sex.
You can sleep with a girl if your logic is bad, if she's already decided she wants you anyway.
And you can sleep with a girl if your ability to inspire the right emotions in her is non-existent, if she's in the right mood or you fill the right place in her life then and there.
But you cannot, under any circumstances, take women as your lovers if you don't handle logistics.
Logistics, of course, are your ability to guide a woman through the physical and social hoops and obstacles you'll encounter on the road to getting together, and your ability to arrange things so that the two of you end up alone somewhere that you can consummate your attraction. Without logistics, you will never get together.
Still not sold on the importance of logistics? Two points:
You can take women to bed who have zero sexual interest in you and don't much like you as a person at times if your logistics are handled properly. This is the situation where you get a girl alone together with you, begin to physically escalate with her, and she simply says in her head, "Eh, why not." And believe it or not, this happens a lot more often than most men think it does! And the only way you realize this is by A) handling logistics, and B) inviting women home with you even when it seems they're not all that into you.
The results are, at times, shocking... girls who seemed incredibly interested simply won't go, and girls who seemed completely disinterested go home with you and go to bed with you. You really can't trust reactions to figure out which girls are most likely to become your lovers, at least not early on in your seduction career.
You can have women who are raring to go with you, but if you can't handle logistics (and if she can't either... women occasionally will handle these for you, but it's uncommon, and you can't depend on it), the escalation window frequently passes and you've moved out of the lover circle and into the provider or friend one.
How do you handle logistics?
Get an apartment (or hotel) nearby to where you're meeting women or taking them on dates
Get a solid process
Follow your process
You see me harp on here on process from time to time. What is process? It is, in a nutshell, your logistical plan for the date. This is the series of steps you're taking women through, logistically, and it's the logistics of pulling and closing things out you need to follow to take women from strangers to lovers.
To get a solid process put together designed to take you directly to intimacy at the end of your first date, see "Simplify Your Dates."
How Hard Is It to Sleep with Girls on the First Date?
Well, that depends on how good your:
- Logical communication (as window dressing),
- Emotional communication (as the underpinning), and
- Logistical setup (for leading, guiding, and closing)
If this is too much to work on and you don't know where to start... start with the date template laid out in the article on simplifying your dates and go from there. Start with logistics - they truly are the most important part of things. You can get girls without logic, and without emotions, but you can't get them without logistics.
Once you're in good shape on logistics, focus on getting the emotional element of your seductions handled - those are your fundamentals, and your "game." How you come across with women, and how you communicate.
Least important - but still significant - is the logical window dressing; this is for addressing objections and for making it easier for women to go along with the logistical plan and your emotional objectives.
Okay, So How Do I Sleep with Her on Date #1?
If you still need something simpler to run off of, try this:
- Propose a date with her when you get her phone number
- Text her with simplicity and purpose, and use texts as a tool to set up dates only
- Follow the guide on simplifying your dates and pick somewhere nearby to meet
- Focus on deep-diving, chase framing, and good conversation on the date
- Use sprezzatura, obey the Law of Least Effort, and get her investing
- After you've built enough of a connection (1 to 3 hours), invite her home
- Once back at your place, kiss her within 10 minutes of getting home
- Escalate physically, handle any objections, and be a good lover to her
Follow those steps, and you stand a far, far better chance than the average of taking girls to bed on the first date. And, combine those steps with solidly handled logical and emotional elements... and you'll get first-date sex with girls on just about every date.
Regardless of whether she's a "good girl"... or not.