How to Find a Mentor


We recently had a younger member of our discussion boards throw something of a temper tantrum there because he’d apparently been desperately trying to get my personal attention, but not succeeded, and became bitter and resentful toward me. I simply haven’t been on the boards a huge amount lately, because I’m swamped, and when I have been on them his posts hadn’t caught my eye as needing any specific attention or input from me beyond what was already being provided perfectly well by everyone else to him. He then waded in with a bevy of sour remarks about me – someone he’d never met who’s never (so far as I recall) interacted with him.

how to find a mentor

Needless to say, a string of personal attacks wasn’t an effective approach by this member – one who’d been spoiling the vibe on the boards for a lot of other people, too. All it managed to do was get my focus on him long enough to rebut his attacks, and then, after radio silence from him for a week or so, lock his account to make sure he wouldn’t come back and cause more drama.

Prior to this outburst, this same member had been trying to find ways to get in contact with me personally, as well as to get me to sell a small product he’d cobbled together based on site material. He’d apparently been frustrated to have interacted solely with Genaro, our customer service pro, via email (we thanked him for the offer, but it wasn’t something we were looking to do), and to not get the attention from me he desired elsewhere, either.

I share this with you because I want to point out that I understand what he was trying to accomplish – he wanted a mentor, and he wanted me, specifically... but that he went about it in all the wrong sorts of ways.

Ways that speak to some of the most common mistakes people – especially people who have yet to really develop their social intuitions – make when pursuing mentors; and when you’ve yet to have achieved any real success in your life, the process of securing a mentor can seem every bit as daunting as securing dates or relationships with beautiful women.

So how do you do it?


how to find a mentor

Our journey starts first with understanding; because, only through understanding can we take right action with a thing.

Securing a good mentor is one of the most valuable things you can do for your own progress, but most people never succeed at doing this. The reasons why seem to be because most individuals fall into one of two camps:

  1. Moderate to high social awareness: moderate to high social awareness individuals tend to be very mindful of the fact that there are many more of those who want to learn than there are those who can teach. They’re usually aware of the fact that experts at something who are exposed to repetitive questions by newer guys can get worn out answering the same things again and again, and they’re sensitive to the value imbalance that exists when a non–expert asks an expert for help or advice. As a result, they often don’t bother to reach out to experts or seek to find a mentor, under the assumption that they’d just be inconveniencing the prospective mentor and they don’t want to seem like a leech anyway.

  2. Low social awareness: low social awareness individuals, who are also low empathy, are genuinely not aware of there being any qualitative difference between their time and an expert’s time. Further, they lack the ability to “put themselves in another’s shoes", so to speak, and thus operate purely from a “how do I get this person to do [X]” perspective, rather than a “if I were this person, what would get *my* attention?” point–of–view. Low social awareness individuals find other people confusing and disorienting, and are frequently frustrated at the failure of their efforts to get others to respond the way they want, much like the Clueless Boring Questions Guy™ we talked about in the article on texting girls.

In other words, you get the more normal folks, who figure they have nothing to offer you and they don’t want to be a pest, and you never hear from those folks, or maybe you get the odd message here or there saying, “Thank you...!” or, “Check this out...” and that’s about it; then, you get the creepy psycho people who decide that all your knowledge are belong to them, and get upset when you don’t want to be BFFs with them even though you know nothing about them and they’ve made zero effort to add substantial value to your life in any way.

There is, however, a third group. It’s a small group, and there aren’t many people in it, but the ones who are in it just get it – and these people get to move through life hoisted up at incredible speed by great mentors, all because they know how to find a mentor and keep him.


Mentor–Getting “Naturals”

In the long climb out of the isolation of my teenage years, I discovered that my depression and angst hadn’t been entirely for naught, because with it came a level of social intuition that I soon realized most around me did not possess.

And one of the ways I put it to use right away was in finding mentors.

I’d gotten a lot of leeway in school, in terms of making jokes in class or bending the rules, because my teachers all really liked me. I established almost familial relationships with them very quickly, and once I left high school and started working, I did the same with my bosses at work, who took me under their wings and coached me on sales and management. I soaked these lessons up like a sponge, and in rather short time went from terrible at sales and terrible at management to mediocre at both, and then one of the district stars at both.

In university, I drifted back into anonymity, in big classes with remote teachers, and few real friends. But once I emerged into the real world following graduation, I set about building mentors again, this time both socially and at work.

Mentors I’d pinpoint as some of the most important elements of success in any field. When I look back at the fields I got good at but never attained sufficient recognition in and eventually abandoned, they’re all fields where I failed to find good mentors; in fields where I succeeded and went on to build more and more good things out of them, these were fields where I found great mentors.

And it’s not just me, either; most of the most talented guys I know at pickup (even the naturals) have stories about guys who showed them the ropes on this thing or that; usually not at the very beginning of their journey, but once they’d begun showing some promise. Likewise for my friends in business; likewise the martial arts.

Being naturally great at mentors seems to be one of those things that socially attuned individuals simply have going for them from early on; it ends up being an advantage that just stacks and stacks. It’s one thing to learn material on your own and parse the lessons out of it; it’s another thing entirely to have someone looking over your shoulder saying, “Okay, I see what you’re doing wrong – I used to do that all the time. You’ll do it a million times and not get anything. Do this instead,” and then magically you’ve just jumped 6 months or a year ahead of where you’d have been without that advice.

Guys who can’t get mentors end up missing out on probably the greatest ability enhancers there is.

One of my favorite films of all time (and books too – though the book and the film are quite different from one another) is Alexander Dumas’s The Count of Monte Cristo (2002). You could boil this film down into a number of different categories: revenge, adventure, piracy... but one of the bins I always put it into is “mentorship":

Dantes’s friend ‘Priest’ takes him on as student and mentee, and arms him with knowledge and skill it’d have taken him a lifetime to learn otherwise. The contrast between Dantes before imprisonment – gullible, naïve, and bumbling – and Dantes after imprisonment – aware, astute, and adept – is stark, and due almost entirely to his having a great mentor.

But the thing you may not realize in watching the film, if you aren’t paying attention is that not only is Priest a great mentor, but Dantes is a great mentee. If you observe how he is with his father, how he is with the boat owner he works for, and how he is with Priest, you’ll see this; now, try imagining one of the villains of the movie in his shoes, as the student of Priest. They’d almost certainly have learned nothing, and would have emerged from prison exactly the same as they’d been going in (plus a little bitterness).

But what is this difference between those who are so open to being made more awesome through the help of mentors, and those who are not?


how to find a mentor

Every now and again, I’ll have people drop by to tell me they’re not convinced, and that I or anyone else need(s) to do a better job of convincing them. That’s people in the comments on an article, or people who sign up for the discussion boards. This can be on any number of things:

  • That it isn’t all about looks/money/status/etc.

  • That women love sex and enjoy it outside of relationships

  • That it’s possibly to dramatically enhance your attractiveness via working on your fundamentals

  • That it’s possible to move fast with any kind of girl other than a “bad girl” – because “good girls don’t go for that"

  • That anything in this place works on hot girls / ordinary girls / rich girls / poor girls / educated girls / street smart girls / young women / older women

... and the list goes on. But that’s why I structure articles the way I do; I load them up with research, with evolutionary psychology, with a psychological exploration of what’s going on in women’s minds, with anecdotes of my own or of my friends, and a plenitude of things you can use to go out and test out the premise of the article yourself, right now, immediately, and decide whether you agree with it or not. I structure everything this way (and ask that all writers do, too) so that you don’t need to have some protracted “convince me” battle with someone – everything you could possibly need to be convinced is right there in one place.

Yet, some people still aren’t convinced. And that’s fine. But then they ask you to keep working to convince them.

When I was younger and less experienced, I’d fall for this; try explaining over and over again to someone who just isn’t getting it why something is a certain way. These days? I just say, “Look, here’s everything you need to go out and try this out and figure out for yourself if what I’m saying works or if I’m full of hot air; go do it, really genuinely honest–to–God try to make it work, and you’ll know one way or the other if I’m serving you up truth or blowing smoke up your trousers after that."

That usually gets rid of them, but not for the reason you might think; it’s not because they’re hard at work trying stuff out.

In fact, they were never going to do that.

Instead, what’s going on with most of these people – and what the majority of individuals have going on in their own heads that make them both immune to being mentored, and unattractive to potential mentors – is that rather than looking for an answer, what they are REALLY looking for is confirmation of what they already believe.

And learning tons of stuff from a mentor does not go so well with trying to get that mentor to confirm what you already think.

Mentors don’t like pouring their hard–squeezed juice into already–filled cups.

Now let’s talk what mentors do like... and how you turn yourself into the empty cup they need.


#1: Accept the Method

The reason that people who are “mentor naturals” know how to find a mentor so well and so consistently is because they understand that nobody who’s any good at something wants to waste time arguing with a novice! Most guys who are good don’t even like arguing their methods with other pros... and you think Richard Dawkins wants to spend hours on end arguing the evidence in favor of evolution with backwoods creationists on some random Internet forum? Or that Stephen King wants to argue the merit of writing 2,000 words a day with an aspiring writer who’s never picked up a pen before?

Yet, even if you are very good, this is what most people will do with you.

Not most of the people you end up teaching, of course. Most people who stick around for instruction are more sponge–like than the ordinary person. But the ordinary man you run across, even if he knows your credentials, his mind is slammed shut.

I used to see this all the time at work: I’d be working with some really talented boss, but rather than soak up all of his lessons, the other guys there seemed to be intent on doing it “their way” regardless, unless the boss forced them to do otherwise.

And I saw it in pickup: I wasn’t the only one hanging out around my mentors, but I was the only one I’d see who would take everything they said to do, and even the things they didn’t (but that I saw them do myself) and go do it myself repetitively until I got it down. The other guys would nod, acknowledge the information, and then do nothing with it.

I call this “accepting the method", and it’s the first major step in securing a mentor for yourself. You can take all the time in the world you want to figure out if a given method is for you; but absolutely do NOT seek out a personal mentor until you are 100% onboard with what he is teaching.

how to find a mentor

Why?

Because you will never, ever get a mentor out of anyone whose method you don’t embrace wholeheartedly. I don’t care who he is; if you’re skeptical, he’s not going to mentor you.

It’s not an ego thing.

It’s not a power thing.

It’s purely a not–worth–my–time–to–argue–with–you thing. That’s because you need to...


#2: Understand the Man

If you’ve never been successful at something, and you’re not high in social awareness, this is going to be difficult to do, because you probably can’t relate to someone who’s become successful in one or more fields.

One shorthand way of thinking about someone who’s successful is thinking about a hot girl. Both successful people and hot girls:

  • Are very aware of what people value out of them (her looks/status/sex for the hot girl; his knowledge/status/skills for the successful man)

  • Are very accustomed to people coming out of the woodwork to find ways to get what they want from them

  • Also have lots of genuinely awesome people around them, too, in addition to all the other things they have that keep them busy, and they’d mostly prefer to spend their time on the genuinely awesome people around them

I think that last one is the most important here. If you’ve climbed the mountain of success, you soon find that success attracts other like–minded folk. That means, you end up getting more and more awesome people around you, who are:

  • Contributing tons of hard–to–get value to your life
  • Introducing you to more amazing, awesome people
  • Teaching you great things as you teach them great things
  • Providing fun, fantastic, uplifting experiences to you

Contrast that to hanging around someone dwelling in the dungeons of victim mentality and psychic vampirism, which almost all of those individuals who will batter you about endlessly on your areas of expertise are despite their relative (or total) lack of knowledge or experience compared to you, and it quickly becomes rather clear which people you’re going to devote most of your time to as you become more successful.

This is where the socially unaware person becomes incensed; how selfish of him, to spend his time on other “amazing” people and not give back to those in need! How uncaring! How greedy!

All the while, the individual thinking or uttering these statements is trying desperately to command as much of the prospective mentor’s time and focus as he humanly can, purely for his own benefit, while providing nothing in return. It is the height of entitlement mentality.

What ends up happening as you become increasingly successful is that you begin to need to insulate yourself from the masses; people start coming to you with their hands out, wanting charity, and calling you selfish if you do not give of yourself to them; and they have absolutely no empathy for the fact that no one ever gave you anything yourself, and that you had a very hard climb to where you are – one that they’ll have to make themselves if they want to succeed, and one you can only really point them in the direction of... you can’t climb it for them.

You learn the very painful lesson every successful person and every hot girl has to learn at some point: most people want what they want from you, and do not give a flying frick about you as a person.

So, you progressively withdraw from being hands on with novices as your status rises more and more and as the number of people who want “stuff” from you increases and as their demands become greater and greater.

When you’re looking for mentors in the people around you – teachers, bosses, cool guys in your social circle who are good with girls – it isn’t as extreme as it is with someone who has a larger audience or fan base, but the effect is still there... there are always far more people who want successful or attractive others to give them stuff than there are people with stuff to give.

Which, ironically, makes finding a mentor something of a piece of cake if you understand this: just be the one guy that person knows who isn’t trying to suck his lifeblood away.

And you do that by...


#3: Implementing and Providing Feedback

Successful men – the kind you want as mentors – all have one thing in common: at some point, at some time in their lives, every single one of them worked his ass off to get good at whatever he’s good at.

As a result, men like this have a big soft spot in their hearts for kindred spirits... and get annoyed to no end by the people who complain about how they don’t have what they want without ever taking any action to change that.

If you want to win over anyone, show that person you’re just like him.

In the case of those men you want as mentors – men who’ve pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and succeeded – neither much talk nor much whining or complaining will do it. There’s only one thing these sorts of individuals care about: results.

The surefire way of showing a prospective mentor that you’re his dream mentee?

Seek his counsel. Then, take that counsel, and implement it. Exactly as he tells you to. And do it hard, and do it devotedly, and do everything in your power to make it work.

Then, once the results are back in, report back, either with success, or with a non–emotional description of lack of success, plus exactly what you did so he can figure out where you messed up.

But really, try to be successful.

This is how I’ve found pretty much every mentor I’ve had. It goes like this:

  1. Mentor gives you a piece of advice – solicited or not, it doesn’t matter; he’s examining your shortcomings, and gives you feedback on how you can adjust

  2. Next, you go implement that advice – ideally, without telling him you’re going to do it (pleasant surprises are always the best; under promise and over deliver). Work hard at making his suggestion work for you

  3. Report back, and let him know that you tried out what he gave you, and he was right – it worked! Or, let him know you tried out what he gave you, and you’re still not making it happen – you feel like you’re weak in XYZ area or on ABC thing, so maybe that’s it, or there might be something else you’re missing

  4. Repeat this process for just about everything he tells you to do

The object here is to take advantage of operant conditioning, and be rewarding your desired mentor with continual bursts of pride and satisfaction at:

  1. Being proved right by someone else using his methods and having them work

  2. Being appreciated for his expertise by a fellow implementer testing things out

  3. Having helped someone and contributed meaningful positive impact

  4. Having formed an alliance in a leadership position with a similarly determined, motivated individual to himself

By following the simple process of doing what your desired mentor tells you to do, doing it until it works, reporting back with news of success (or the occasional failure, framed in a “I think I’m doing it wrong” way, and not in a “I think your approach is wrong” way that will put him on the defensive), and making this a regular process, you build up a relationship that is very beneficial to both.

Accomplished people genuinely love helping coach promising students / up–and–comers / rising stars to success. It’s just a good feeling, knowing that you’re building allies and helping train up the next generation of successful individuals.

You just have to show the man you want as a mentor for any given thing that you are exactly the kind of person it’s worth it for him to invest his time in mentoring, and you’re there.


#4: Choose a Path

The final part of how you find a mentor is to choose one of the two (2) paths you can take toward a mentor–mentee relationship. These are:

  1. The Devoted Pupil
  2. The Good Friend

Each path has its advantages and its disadvantages, so let’s talk about both.


The Devoted Pupil

The devoted pupil is the more “ordinary” path to take when establishing a mentoring relationship. This is the path where the relationship primarily revolves around mentoring, and you meet up to ask your mentor questions and get his opinion on things, and he provides you feedback, coaching, and guidance.

how to find a mentor

This path has a few strong advantages:

  • It’s a much easier path to execute
  • It takes less time to start reaping results
  • It’s a more self–guided approach (you ask the questions; the mentor responds)
  • It requires less intuition, since you’re directly given your answers

With this path, you aren’t so much friends with your mentor as you are the mentor’s student and trainee. It’s a rather clear–cut relationship, where he knows he’s training you, and you know you’re being trained.

The downside of these relationships is that they tend to drift away more easily over time, and you miss some of the nuance and much of the really advanced stuff you can pick up on if you take the other route.

Establishing this relationship is simple enough, if you follow the other points above. Assuming you:

  1. Accept the method
  2. Understand the man (and are sensitive to his time / values / schedule)
  3. Implement his suggestions and detail your results / thank him for his help

... you’re pretty much already there. All you’ve got to do now is continue to ask him for suggestions, a little bit at a time (don’t overwhelm him with requests), then repeat the process of implementing and providing feedback, then asking for more things to implement, over and over.


The Good Friend

The good friend is a very different route to mentor–dom; it’s trickier, harder to pull the information you want out of it, and it takes longer to put together, and more skill to. This path revolves around becoming good friends with a mentor, not around establishing a direct mentor–mentee relationship.

Its advantages are:

  • You can form mentorships with people who don’t usually mentor
  • You get trained on what the mentor views is most important for you
  • You build a lasting friendship that exists outside of just mentoring
  • Provided your ability to observe and analyze is good, you get access to advanced methods, strategies, and techniques that the mentor may not even be consciously aware of himself

Essentially, with this sort of relationship, you focus more on making friends with and providing value to prospective mentors. That’s more difficult to do, because – especially if you’re starting out in a place where you are not yet successful at anything, and the mentor is – you may not have much of value to offer just yet.

For that reason, this one is most practical if you’re already successful at something, or if you’re of an intermediate level of success at a thing and can keep your mouth shut and otherwise be good, likable, enjoyable company.

Case in point: when I first moved out to California, I was picking up and getting laid here and there, but I wasn’t terribly consistent, and I had a lot wrong with my game. In quick succession though, I met a few guys who were a lot more advanced than I was. Rather than pelt them with questions – which I knew would:

  1. Annoy them (because all the problems I had would be stuff they’d solved long ago and probably view as newbie questions), and

  2. Cause them to scale back face time with me to only times when they felt like answering my questions... rather than just whenever, because we were friends

... I resolved to simply not ever ask them anything about girls. I wouldn’t act like a know–it–all (which any experienced guy sees through like glass); I’d just be chill, not make a big deal out of it, and learn through observation.

What I ended up learning through watching my friends ended up being tremendously good for me, although at first I mostly just watched and didn’t have much to show for it. And I only learned what I learned because I was their friend, and not their student. On the rare occasion I’d roll with some of the more experienced guys from the local pickup artist community, when they’d meet my natural friends and see what they were pulling off, they’d invariably be trying to get their phone numbers to hang out with them and interview them and learn from them, but my buddies weren’t interested – they didn’t want to be training anyone. When they had free time, they wanted to hang out, chill, drink a beer, and hit on some chicks. I got that; other guys didn’t seem to get it, though.

In truth, I don’t think 30 interview sessions with those friends of mine would’ve helped them make as much transformation as I made just hanging out around those friends of mine and adopting what I saw them do and trying it out myself. Occasionally, they’d give me suggestions, and I’d implement them and report back; but mostly, we just hung out, and I learned through osmosis.

The downside of this is that it’s hard to pull off; you’ve got to be a cool enough person with enough social intuition that a successful person finds you valuable to have around as a hang–out pal; and it takes time to learn the lessons here, and you can’t just go and tap the guy for answers whenever you hit a rough spot if you don’t want to mess up the dynamic you have.

However, for my money, this is the best kind of setup there is, because you become genuine friends with some pretty awesome people, and if you get the chance, when you’re more successful in other fields later on, you can even get back in touch and offer to help them be more successful in those fields without having to overcome a student–teacher dynamic, because there never was one.


How to Find a Mentor

You’ll notice I didn’t specify WHERE to find a mentor here. In this case, I’m a big believer in the phrase “when the student is ready, the master will appear.”

How this works is that you genuinely need to be OUT there, busting your ass hard on succeeding at whatever you want to succeed at. Whether that’s:

  • Your studies
  • Your career
  • Your business
  • Getting girls
  • Martial arts
  • Sports
  • Art

... or anything else, you’ve got to be doing and implementing to at least be good enough that you’re already somewhat proven when you come across a willing mentor, and good enough that you can tell the difference between someone who’s a true talent from someone who’s pretending like he is but doesn’t have the goods to back it up. And there are generally a lot more of the latter than there are the former in pretty much every field you look at.

The only mentors I’ve had when I was a pure beginner were mentors I was in some way attached to or paying for; my first few bosses when I was new to sales and management; the teachers I had when I paid to attend classes on meeting women in my early days. The other mentors I’ve had, whom I’ve met more organically and without any kind of structure or transaction bringing us together, I have always met from when I was intermediate on up (to borderline advanced or so).

Most very successful people won’t be interested in mentoring you if you can’t already show some promise (some early success), mostly because they don’t want to spend a lot of time answering newbie questions they’ve answered a million times already for other people, and also because it’s just not very exciting coaching a guy who shows no signs of ever being a star. Everybody wants to coach a star.

Similarly, you probably don’t want to take on an intermediate or slightly advanced coach when you yourself are a beginner. In my opinion, it’s better to train on your own (though with a good support group) when you’re just starting out, and don’t get a mentor until you can get a really good one. More harm than good comes from being coached by a guy who sounds like he knows what he’s talking about because you’re a beginner and he’s intermediate, but who then ends up leading you astray.

Focus on being that empty cup that appeals most to prospective mentors.

Don’t be the opinionated guy who wants to challenge everything and place himself on equal footing with the expert – successful people have no time for status–jockeying with people who don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s just transparent and annoying.

Be the wet clay that your mentor can shape into his own image. That’s what we all want to do anyway – make other people more like ourselves. That’s why people get so impassioned in comment sections on random news articles that they disagree with – they just want other people to agree with them and be like them.

Follow the four rules of mentorship:

  1. Accept the Method
  2. Understand the Man
  3. Implement and Provide Feedback
  4. Choose a Path (The Devoted Student or The Good Friend)

... and adhere to them religiously, and you will find yourself, perhaps sooner than you think, with some pretty awesome mentors in whatever you’re trying to be good at.

And make sure you don’t rant, whine, or attack if it doesn’t happen overnight, of course ;) Relationships must be nurtured – they can never be forced.

Chase Amante

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Hey


Great article Chase really enjoyed reading (and learning!)

Speaking of mentors, how important do you think it is that the mentor is still active in whichever field he has expertise in? You think it makes much difference if he's retired from his field or not?

On that note, just out of interest how active are you at the moment in the world of seduction? Do you still pickup women from clubs/bars etc? I only ask because I know on the forum you made a thread about monogamy and how it can work etc which made me think you might be in a solid relationship?

Anyway my main question is: How do I go about competing with those high energy, life and soul of the party, I have everybody's attention, joke cracking kinda guys? I find it hard to get a girls attention from them.

Thanks Chase

Chase Amante's picture

Activity Levels

Author

Anon-

I think the best things to look for in mentors are individuals who have some level of ongoing firsthand activity - even if it's mainly just doing basic stuff like shooting around if it's a guy coaching you in basketball, say - but also importantly, individuals who are regularly working with other pupils around your levels, because that's how a coach trains up his ability to identify missing pieces in others' approaches and give them targeted suggestions. I've noticed that in seduction, for instance, guys who are both removed from the game for a few years (i.e., in exclusive relationships) and who do not work regularly with providing practical coaching to beginners start to become increasingly "in their heads" and begin to give out increasingly speculative advice. It's important that a coach be getting feedback, either from doing the things he's suggesting you do himself, from hearing back from others he's coaching to do those things and what their results are, or, ideally, both.

Re: me, bars/clubs are still among my favorite places to pick up, even if I abstain from dating women I meet there. I rarely go out and burn it to the ground doing the "approach 20 to 40 women" thing anymore these days, as I did during my prime learning phase (2005 to 2009 or so); I'm good enough at identifying which women will be most receptive to me, and also attracting girls into me for easy meeting, that walking around and opening truckloads usually isn't worth my while any more. I'll occasionally still do it if I'm feeling off or very out of my element and just am going to throw a lot of stuff at the wall and see what sticks, though. As far as relationships are concerned, I've spent very little time being purely single since 2006... I nearly always have at least one solid or solid-ish relationship going on.

Re: competing with the high energy guy, this article addresses this directly - check it out: "Trouncing Male Competition for Girls in the Dating Scene."

Chase

Danny 's picture

Does that mean we men can only date/marry down?


Dear Chase,

Another great article! I guess one of the most luckiest event in my life is to discover your site, purchased your ebook, and have you to be my mentor not only in pickups, but also in social dynamics &interactions. Again, thank you!

I have a queation regarding to your previous 1950 Housewives article. Basically the message I received from u is that if we become a high quality alpha male which women desire (high income, high education, high status, good fundamentals etc), women will more likely to stay loyal to us. They are also more likely to be more feminine (adopt her role as a gentle housewife, mother, caretaker) toward us because high qualify men are not that replacable.

My question: Does that mean we men can only date down or marry down? We men can only date/marry down If we want to have relationship control so our women can be faithful to us? What if I am interested in the same type of women as Chase Amante ,the women who are gorgeous and have a master/ phD degree?

If I am interested in women who have phD (Or in the process of getting her PhD) and I want it for a long term, does that mean I should get at least a master myself? How did u Chase Amante get high educated women and keep them in your previous relationships?

Thank you Chase! Keep up the good work.

Chase Amante's picture

Dating/Marrying Down

Author

Danny-

To an extent it does, but the rules are pliable. "Marrying up" in humans is expressed in women seeking more dominant, higher status males, and men seeking more attractive females (money problems are the number one cause of divorce [man not high status / successful enough]; and men and women are happiest in marriages where the woman is more attractive than the man, and both are less happy in marriages where the man is more attractive than the woman).

You don't, however, need a PhD to date or marry a girl with a PhD; you just need to surpass her intellectually and/or financially. And to sleep with her or have a fling with her, you often won't even need that; while she probably won't marry the pool boy, she might well have a fling with him, to enjoy his sexy abs (or whatever else he's got going on that's sexy about him).

Assuming successful, educated women find you inspiring, admirable, and powerful, they're usually not going to worry too much about what specific credentials you have. Much of my life has been spent dating women with more education than I have who make more money than I do who nevertheless view me as an authority because 1.) I know more than they do, and can hack my way out of all kinds of situations / provide solutions to all manner of things in the snap of a pair of fingers that they'd otherwise never solve, and 2.) they view me as a guy with tons of future potential who's more or less destined for success / great things.

So, women DO marry up for status / wealth / power (just as men marry up in terms of looks... certainly all of my girlfriends have been bettering looking than me!), but what counts as status / wealth / power is a fairly broad range of traits and attributes, and if you're conditioning yourself to be an attractive, powerful, desirable man, you're generally going to score pretty well there.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

This is excellent!


I love articles like this. Practical, real world advice. Chase, are you thinking about doing a in depth post about social awareness? I read your post about ultimate social calibration, but I was hoping you could write something a little more basic. Sorta like an idiot's guide to increasing your social awareness. I'd appreciate it!

Chase Amante's picture

Social Awareness

Author

Anon-

Didn't have it on there, but I will add it to the topic queue!

Chase

Hector Castillo's picture

"How To Seduce A Mentor"


Chase,

You should definitely rename this "How To Seduce A Mentor."

Have something to offer the mentor? Don't whine? Nurture the relationship, because genuine connections can't be forced? Listen to the person; don't argue with them; *understand that person*, and reflect what it is they value?

All of this sounds eerily familiar to other stuff I've read on here ;)

- Anatman

Chase Amante's picture

Re: "How To Seduce A Mentor"

Author

Anatman-

I very well could, couldn't I? :)

The principles of human interaction are all the same... if you want to build a relationship with someone you know has value to you, but you also know is going to be skeptical about whether you will provide value in return (or just end up being another time sink / energy vampire), seduction is what you must employ.

Then all you've got to do is make sure you hold up your end of the bargain, and it make it a rewarding experience for the one being seduced!

Chase

B's picture

a good eye opener


I found this site a while back and created an account on the forums just recently as a learning tool and to get some feedback here and there in the field reports section. In my spare time I was looking around the beginner forums and saw a couple unanswered posts. I felt I had some good ideas to contribute to these so I answered several of them. Soon after I got positive support from some other users saying that my advice was great. I even got a personal request for help in my inbox. This made me feel good about my involvement and contribution. And I went on a short stint answering questions, giving a good deal of feedback for a while feeling it was constructive. Today things felt like they were going over the top a bit.

Reading this was very helpful. I don't want to overextend and fall into the “Intermediate giving advice to beginners” category. Also I understand if I wanted to give my own advice that is not covered in the articles then I should do it on my own website instead of someone else's. This article was eye opening and also motivated me to hit the field harder than ever.

Chase Amante's picture

Advising as an Intermediate

Author

B-

It's fine to give advice when you're intermediate - I did it, and most people on discussion boards do it and did it when they were at that point. That's fine. Where it gets tricky is if you take on as a mentor someone who is only intermediate; an intermediate guy can provide some good bits of advice here and there with situations he's already got handled or has pretty good instincts for, but he'll generally have a mental model that's missing a lot of other pieces and has a lot of holes in it, and taking on a mentor is basically about assuming someone else's mental models and copying them into your brain - which becomes all the more dangerous when you assume someone else is a pro and assume the model you're getting from him is complete and needs no revisions or improvements, when in fact it's only a partial model.

So, I'd say - giving advice as an intermediate, on things you KNOW you've got down, or else quoting a shared mentor or referring a learner to resources from an expert teacher, is fine and good and enhances both your learning and the person you're advising's learning; when I was intermediate I used to do TONS of "Expert A advises that you [blank]" on things I wasn't personally that experienced with yet (and even today, I bow to research and other friends' experiences to bolster my own arguments or provide alternate views). Where you want to be careful is in giving advice on those things you aren't nearly as confident on - because once you venture into the realm of speculative or theoretical advice, that's when you start filling guys' heads with accurate-sounding stuff that leads them farther away from where they're trying to get to instead of closer.

Chase

MarkO's picture

Business partner


Do you have any tips on picking a good business partner? ... or do you need one at all?

Mark

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Business partner

Author

Mark-

Yes, absolutely. Whether you need a business partner depends on what kind of business you're trying to build, and how confident you are about your own abilities; I'd probably advise everyone to run a small business on his own for a year or so before seeking a business partner, just so you aren't going in a complete business newbie and making dumb mistakes. You'll also have a far better idea about what precisely you need a business partner to do.

For actually selecting a partner, I'd advise picking someone who is NOT a close friend, and whom you avoid doing too many "friend-like" things outside the business even once you're working together, to make sure the relationship stays mostly business (easier to make the hard decisions this way).

I'd also advise picking someone who is a complement to your natural (most desired) abilities, and who wants nothing to do with the parts of the business YOU want, and EVERYTHING to do with the parts of the business you have no interest in. So, if you really want to be a CEO, and the other guy really wants to be the CEO, don't be partners, because one of you is going to get miffed and start phoning it in. Instead, find someone who wants nothing to do with the spotlight and instead wants to build whatever you want to build.

A shared vision is also extremely important - if you want to get VC funding, build something up in a few years, then flip it for a big payout, but your partner wants to bootstrap the business and build it up into a business empire that he runs for 40 years, you're going to have BIG problems on all sorts of fundamental decisions about how the business grows and changes, and, again, will probably end up with someone checking out pretty early.

Last one is contracts: it's very, very, very important to contract in the specific duties each person has to the business. You need to assume that you'll be pouring your lifeblood into the business, and that the other person may NOT (even if he seems super excited), so you've got to know what the bare minimum you're willing to accept from him is for him to get whatever amount of equity he's getting. Again, this is much easier if you already have a year of business experience or so, because you'll have a much better awareness of just how much work is involved in running a business (one of the huge mistakes I made early on was thinking I'd be fine having even splits with business partners, but doing most of the work - "Hey, they're my friends, and if they don't contribute quite as much, it's okay - I can handle it" - that changes pretty fast once you're breaking your back to build something and your partners are MIA 85% of the time). You also need explicitly clear exit / break up clauses - if one party will leave the business, what do the other partners do / how are his shares dealt with? If the business fails, how are its assets divided? Most businesses fail, and if you want to avoid a messy break up that destroys your relationship with your business partner(s), put it in writing and take all the emotion out of it before the emotion even has a chance to end up there.

The right business partner can be totally awesome; often though, that isn't the first person you run across, and it takes some prior business experience to be able to see who the right business partner is.

Chase

Empy's picture

A Small request


Hey Chase. I love your and everybody's articles here. They really changed me for the better.
But I was wondering, how can I become a good mentor.
I have a few friends who want to learn to play the guitar from me. Some also want me to teach them with girls, and since i amassed a whole load of skills, there goes a good amount of friends who also want to learn those skills.
I know the basics of teaching: Show him this show him that, but is there something more to it? Something that really shows results?
Thanks in advance!

Chase Amante's picture

Teaching

Author

Empy-

Teaching's amazingly simple if you just use one magic trick: start giving people things to do that are right at the boundaries of their current abilities.

So, if you've got a friend who wants to learn guitar, and he knows nothing about it, start out by showing him some simple strumming techniques and tell him to go practice strumming for 3 hours over the next 2 or 3 days. When he comes back, listen to his strumming, ask him how it feels, give him some feedback, and give him his next assignment (probably more strumming).

Same deal with girls - if a friend wants to do better with girls, give him tasks similar to what I've got up in the Newbie Assignment on the discussion boards, one day at a time, and have him report back and help him analyze and give him feedback if you were there and watching him.

Just keep giving people things to do that will challenge them and push them, and so long as they are doing them, they will learn.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

do you make tours


Hey chase..

Great article on mentoring. I always wondered if you ever did tours would be a great opportunity to meet and learn from you in person.
Also i had a few questions.Read your articles on texting but i felt though it covered the content it didnt involve in depth discussion on timing of the texting. Because a lot of time my bad sense of timing has either got a girl auto-rejecting me or my over eagerness has lost me great deal of attraction. I mean i am not intutive enough yet to know when to pause or when be immediete in texting whether it comes to getting a girl back or dealing with current short affair or handling a relationship.

Chase Amante's picture

Tours / Texting

Author

Anon-

I don't do tours or anything in-person these days, no. I used to coach in-field back in the day, and maybe at some point we'll do tours or something similar in the future, but not before business is big enough that it doesn't require me to do a lot of the day-to-day anymore.

Re: timing of texting, I'm not entirely sure what you mean / what specifically is wrong with your timing (e.g., waiting too long to respond to girls or responding too soon? Or, sending date requests or conversational texts at inconvenient times? etc.). If you want to clarify in a comment response here, if it's something I can do an article on, I'll add it to the queue; or, if you have specific examples you want feedback on, if you post on the Phone Calls and Texting Board on our discussion forum, there are a lot of very sharp guys with texting there who can probably give you some nuanced feedback on what they see that you can adjust.

Chase

Torus's picture

Mentor good at one thing, but wants to teach you an other


This article comes at the perfect time! I have been soaking up information from Masters in a similar manner. (Could it be you have posted similar ideas a year ago?)

My Question:
I just met an old and retired, but curious and successful happy man.
We talked for half a day, exchanging life stories. He has mentored 7 people in his life, from artist over bureaucrats to doctors and now he got interested in me.

He is really good at social skills, is also at home at high society events and knows how the big decisions are made. He is also really happy. That is what I want to become better at.

The problem is that he advised me to go back to University to finish my high status medical degree, whereas I concluded that I can have a much bigger impact on humanity when advocating necessary technological change in the next 30 to 50 years. I know what I am doing, since I learned about these technologies from the best in the world.

He (like many people form other fields) had a hard time seeing the benefits of this approach and would like to see me on a more conventional path to success, whereas I want to learn his social skills to carry real science to the decision makers.

How can I tell him, that, without seeming to break #1 in your post?

Anything else besides explaining it like I did here?

Thank

Chase Amante's picture

Conflict with Mentors

Author

Torus-

Assuming this isn't a major part of your usual conversations, the easiest way of dealing with mentors giving you advice you know you don't want to take is to ask them questions about it, like, "Hmm. Why do you think medical school, where I'd make more money but influence far fewer people, is the better path to technology advocation?" He'll then go into his points about why he thinks the one is better than the other. Very important to not get into a debate here - this is about values, and if you communicate that something as important as how you want to spend your life differs markedly from how he thinks you ought to spend it, that's a potentially mentorship-ending value clash.

After that, take his counsel, and thank him for it. Then just don't talk about it again unless he brings it up. If he does, either tell him you're still deciding, because it's a hard choice and there are very different reasons to go in either direction, or that you've gone the path you've gone but maybe you'll realize it was a mistake and end up on the other path a few years down the road and he'll turn out to be right.

Coming from the perspective of someone who's been both mentor and mentee a number of times, I can tell you that minimizing it helps, but it still puts a damper on your relationship with most mentors unless the guy largely forgets about it / you successfully avoid letting it ever become a big issue and broom it when it comes up; from the mentor point of view, when you're advising a guy to go do something you think is going to be critically important for his life, and he doesn't listen and goes and does something else but keeps coming to you for advice, the feeling you get is something like, "Why are you still asking me for advice? It's clear you only want the small pieces of unimportant advice, and on the big, most important issues, you're going to go another, less effective, mediocre route."

Keep in mind that mentorship isn't free - someone who trains you in something generally trains you in it because he wants you to use it in a specific way. Mentors really don't like their advice being used in ways that clash with how they intend them to be used, so if this guy thinks you'll be doing a lot of good in medicine and throwing that away in technology, that might just be a dealbreaker for him working with you.

Chase

gijas04's picture

A Mentor As A Beginner


Chase

I came across a strange situation where as a beginner myself was giving advise to another beginner. I didn't really feel like I had to but he was chasing this girl and I had to say something. I told him to stop and let it go. I've been there myself and it doesn't work. He kept asking questions as if I was a mentor. But after reading your article it makes sense. We are both beginners so we are on the same level. However, I seem to know more about the subject since I have been out in the field longer and I am also 15 years his senior. So I see were he needed advice from me. And I was happy to give it to him. It made me feel good. I do feel I need a mentor myself but like you suggested until I start seeing success regularly on my own, I will need to work hard to be at a place where I can finally say, yes, I need a mentor now to advance to the next level. Thank you Chase for your insight!
Jason

Chase Amante's picture

Re: A Mentor As A Beginner

Author

Jason-

Yeah, it's tricky when you know some things that seem very insightful to other people but aren't really "there" yet yourself... they'll tend to think you're an expert and start bombarding you with all manner of questions, which you've got to be careful you don't let get to your head and make you start giving out speculative advice because it feels good to seem like an expert. Best here to just say, "You know, honestly, I'm still just starting out too and I don't have much experience with that yet, so all I can say is go try out a few different things and see which ones work best."

So long as the advice you're giving out is either stuff you know personally through and through, or that you've gotten from an expert you trust (and you're just repeating it as you got it, and not drawing too many conclusions off of it), you'll usually be fine.

And absolutely - reaching that initial plateau first makes it all the easier to get a mentor later, and get the right one, at that!

Chase

Jay1's picture

A much needed article


Great column, Chase. I think this one was long overdue, and it's great to see you tackle this subject so well. For any successful endeavors I've taken in life, I've looked to and found help from a mentor. Having a mentor is not only critical in many fields, but I think it's underrated since many men don't want to take a subordinate role and think they can handle things on their own. Having the humility to accept that you can learn from someone else is one of the greatest thing I have learned in life. I now listen to others more than ever in my life, and it has been immeasurably beneficial to not only my career but my life in general.

A while ago, I asked if you were going to do an article about relocating to a new city and starting anew somewhere. You mentioned you did a piece on living abroad, but I was curious when you're going to do one specific to a city within one's own country (the U.S., in my case) and the ins and outs of starting anew, rather than adjusting to a new culture as that other article was more focused on.

Sorry to keep bothering you about this article, but I really want to get your take on this, brother. You're one of the people who I listen to on a regular basis and have learned quite a lot from.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Jay

Chase Amante's picture

New City

Author

Jay-

Cool to see how much having mentors is impacting your life. It's pretty astonishing both 1.) how big a differences these make, and 2.) how few people tap into using mentors purely because of ego reasons, and end up stalling their own progress out.

And, noted on starting up in a new town in one's own country - I'll see what I can do. That'd be a fun one to write.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

ON and OFF modes


I feel myself having a mindset deficit and maybe you can shed some light.
My end goal is to be a confident operator wherever I go and with whomever I interact, whether it's new women, a new job, a new country. The confident operator finds solutions to his problems and acts without hesitation or doubt to get what he wants. Sometimes his desires might be considered a little psycho because he dreams big and expects big. But the difference between him and the frustrated entitlement guy is the confident operator has the ability to ACT in ways that impact people's emotions in the ways he needs in order to shape their behavior toward him and in turn get what he wants via frame control and other means.

Problem I face is, I know the end goal in theory, what it looks like if someone is doing it in front my face, but I just don't know how to get there in automatic visceral fashion at ALL TIMES. I feel like my confidence is conditional. If I feel good on a certain day, say I had a few successes early in the morning then I'm primed to go risk take and say hello to 5, 10 girls that day and persist hard. Or I'm primed to speak up in meetings and throw out wild ideas without worry about being judged/ostracized. These are the "ON" days.

On other days, that I categorize as the "OFF" days, if I don't have that "ON" feeling, that feeling that I can win or that I don't really care if I lose, then I hesitate. I get intimidated more easily (say by superior performers in the environment). Instead of acting from my automatic unconscious, I become self-conscious, and doubt sets in, my heart pounds, I get nervous. This feeling affects everything, from how I see the world (threats vs opportunities) including interactions with others. But on the "ON" days, I automatically inject wit, humor, banter, teasing, chase-framing etc into my conversations. I remain emotionally detached from the outcome of conversations (with strangers), and I lead interactions and I try to be the bringer of the energy. I lead interactions. And if my conversational partner is boring, then I walk away and find another. Rinse and repeat.

On the "OFF" days though, that "bringer of energy" state dramatically abates, and in order for me to bring out my true personality, one of two things must happen: a) the person has to be a master conversationalist and their energy and taking the lead (where I respond to their energy) warms me up from my hesitant, lukewarm state. If they fail to be interesting, exciting, alluring, then the conversation basically ends and dies. or b) I have to like the person. If I am indifferent to their existence, then I view scintillating conversation with them as me having to expend more effort than I care to, so I remain quiet. And if I don't like the person, they might as well be dead to me.

But why? Were you ever like this? Am I just an introvert? I dont get my emotional reactions to people on my OFF days... it isn't that I don't want to socialize at all on my OFF days, it's that if that uncontrollable uncofident, uncomfortable feeling comes in, then I don't want to be the LEADER of the interactions (at least not until I warm up), I just want to FEEL comfortable and respond to others...(and for me to FEEL comfortable takes interacting with a master conversationalist who can keep conversation going, and they speak in interesting ways to keep me engaged...otherwise I'm like fuck it, don't need it).

Thing is, I've observed some people seem to have the ability to just BE ON whenever the situation requires. Everyday. Immediately in response to questions they can dive in to master conversationalist mode. They can be dominant and lead conversations, and just make things happen no matter who they're around and how they personally feel toward the individual. Me on the other hand, I feel like I can do it some of the time when I'm in ON mode, but on my OFF days, my actions are much more tied to HOW I feel about a person. My aggressiveness fades. I have to LIKE the people I interact with FIRST to be able to bring any energy at all...and if I don't like them already then I need for them to warm me up first before I can bring out my real personality and do what I want. If they can't warm me up then I just stay quiet and lukewarm. Sometimes I'm nervous, other times I'm just distant and aloof. I guess somewhere deep down I still want people to like me.

I don't know what the fucking problem is, but I want to be ON more than I'm OFF. And if I'm OFF I want a way to be ON without having to rely on the unpredictable stochastic probability that a master conversationalist will be around to warm me up! I mean how likely is that to happen? Is there a way to do this? To think my way out of feeling timid, reserved, hesitant? To do it on-demand? I guess a solution is just to get my legs moving and do what I need to do, despite my underlying emotions.

But on my off-days I become nonchalant, indifferent. Not wanting to expend much energy. Feeling rather lazy. And this conditional aggressiveness, is a limiting situation. Because say I need to inject sexiness into a conversation with a girl. If I am in OFF mode, and I somehow ended up in conversation with a woman I'd only be sexy if I really liked her. If she's ok, meh, then no, my subconscious doesn't deliver a sexy routine to try out. But this is boring! If I'm in ON mode on the other hand, then I'm playful by default, so it doesn't matter all that much about my emotions toward her (most girls I meet don't really excite me anymore anyway, so my strategy has changed into me exciting them instead wating in vain for them to excite me) I naturally find a way to inject sexiness, even if I don't like her all that much. I do it more for the thrill to see what I can get away with, not whether or not she'll go for it. Whether it's by misinterpreting what she's saying, watching her with a sexy look, etc I don't care, I just do it.

So if you have any insights on how to think about hesitation, doubt, feeling cold and aloof in real-time, and how to interrupt it when it's happening to me (it happens often enough even though I don't want it to) I'd appreciate. Aggressiveness is necessary when going after what you want, whether it's moving on a new woman or doing amazing things at work or somewhere else. I can't be a victim any more. So I figure I'll start with your help and try to develop some kind of mental model that I can deliberately practice when I feel OFF. And the hope is that I slowly start interrupting negativity and start injecting positivity. This way, not only can I affect my homeostasis, but I get to keep the pressure on my desire to be a confident operator no matter where I go, whom I with, regardless of whether I feel intimidated or not, and no matter if I feel ON or OFF. I know logically that there is no real risk to just doing what I need to do, but it just feels like there is a big damn risk.

This is a rather long-winded message but those are my thoughts in summary (lol), so if you can mentor me a little I'd appreciate. Thanks!

Anonymous's picture

I know what you mean. I've


I know what you mean. I've experienced higher highs but the tradeoff is lower lows. The lowers lows definitely prolong more than the higher highs, and I'm reaching a point where my mind cannot remember and cannot act the way I want it to and I have no idea why. I'm starting to think we go through cycles of moods and that what we think is our own doing is just awareness of a natural shift in mood.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: ON and OFF modes

Author

Anon-

This is an interesting topic, and decides its own dedicated article; I've noted down to do one on it. In the meantime, I can say that yes, everyone goes through this; personally, I found this frustrating early on, and so much of my training in anything I do (pickup / seduction / relationships / martial arts / negotiation / etc.) is centered around learning how to simulate "on" in "off" modes - that is, how to take the same actions in "off" mode, how to assume the posture and facial expressions of "on" mode while in "off" mode, how to follow the same behavior patterns, etc.

What ends up happening is you LOOK like you're "always on", even when you're internally very "off", and the results between "on" and "off" blur - for me, I tend to have better results when I'm "off" with most things I'm trained at, since I'm more consciously following an ironed-out process that generates results, than I do when I'm "on" and doing whatever I feel like doing because I feel great but often end up breaking process and not taking right action.

I talked about this somewhat in "Going Out to Meet Women Even When You Don’t Want to", but I'll go into it more in-depth when I can get a proper article on it up.

Basically, the gist would be, "Train to act AS IF you are 'on' EVEN WHEN you are 'off'." That requires some degree of awareness of when you're "on" and monitoring of what you're doing differently than the rest of the time, when you're "off." e.g., maybe you notice you smile a lot more when on, so you start doing that when off, too; or, you notice you interrupt girls a lot more when on, so you start doing that in the same ways and at the same times in conversation when you are off - things like that. That's how you transfer the fleeting boosts that being "on" gives you over into permanent upgrades that apply even when "off."

Chase

Dogan's picture

Always


Hey Chase,
Your acknowledge and style make me wonder to think about real world. You are bending the rules. You are not only sitting and writing, at the same time you are working, surveying in the field. Now I am addicted to your site. Thanks for having attitudes in this direction.

First I want to ask you. Why we(or I) can not reach the stability. Sometimes I feel like the world is mine!( usually When I have positive interaction with a female) and Sometimes I feel like the world is on my shoulders. I become to think what is wrong with me, what can I do, there must be something to be changed. But on my own temper, soul, brain. Nobody helps, shows me the way. Maybe I further ten times or looking my picture from hill or understand that I am fighting with mud ! İf I could have a mentor.

İf you aren't find a high-caliber one to be your mentor. What is the right way to follow. Could your father be the best mentor?
I think I am in obligation to you
Thank you.

Chase Amante's picture

Inconstancy

Author

Dogan-

The lack of never being satisfied enough is the human tendency toward acclimation. e.g., both lottery winners and victims of full-body paralysis return to the base levels of happiness they were at prior to their life-altering incidents within 18 months; if you were unhappy before winning the lottery, you'll be equally unhappy a year-and-a-half later; and if you were a bucket of joy before being paralyzed, you'll be a bucket of joy again in 18 months' time.

On a shorter timescale, we adapt to most less dramatic chances in our lives (i.e., NOT winning the lottery or using the use of our limbs) far more rapidly. So, things that make you feel like you're on top of the world one day are no longer so exciting the next, and you get used to your new way of being and start to wonder what more you can have. This is what causes the "grass is always greener" phenomenon; all non-depressed people are constantly in search of a way to have MORE and BETTER in their lives (and when you run into obstacles getting that, or it feels like you're stalling out, you'll get upset or beat yourself up over it).

Whether your father could be your mentor is all about what he's good at and whether you want to be like him. If he's good at things you want to be good at and you admire him for the man he is, he may very well be an excellent mentor. Frequently, as you grow older, you'll begin to realize that you say and do things and behave like your father in ways you might never have expected you would previously.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Right on


I've used most of these methods in my life, somewhat instinctually. They have worked incredibly well in getting a mentor and in skyrocketing my success. Of course, I could not have explained them as eloquently as Chase, nor have I implemented every technique he suggests. Please, everyone, DO THIS STUFF. IT WORKS BETTER THAN YOU COULD EVER IMAGINE....just like everything else on this site. Chase: You are a fucking genius.

Anonymous's picture

Eye Contact


Chase,
when someone wear glasses, it kinds of hide his eyes a bit...
if you have to do a deep eye contact, the glasses may
be some sort of problem as it slightly hide your eyes.
I just want your opinion.

Chase Amante's picture

Glasses

Author

Anon-

Check out this comment response for my thoughts on glasses: "Re: Glasses." I wouldn't worry too much about deep eye contact specifically; assuming you're looking straight-on, it's still generally fairly easy to see your eyes. If you want to maximize eye contact, you could always take your glasses off in more intense moments, though I don't think this is necessary.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

But I thought you were my


But I thought you were my mentor ;)

Wallflower's picture

sleeping with your mentor


Chase,

So, do you think its ok to sleep with your mentor? Provided that you want to sleep with this person genuinely and not because you want him/her to help you necessarily. I know this is a complicated question, but that is exactly why I am asking you., you are the expert on this stuff :))

Thanks much.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: sleeping with your mentor

Author

Wallflower-

Hmm, tricky. I think it's pretty safe to say I've served as a mentor to previous girlfriends of mine - I've even trained some of them on picking up guys and relationship management! However, none of them I was a mentor to prior to ending up in relationships with them.

I suppose so long as the cost-benefit analysis seems okay, you're probably safe. The main things you'd want to look out for are 1.) is this guy going to become weird after having slept with you and start withholding information because he wants to have more control over you / more dependence from you (which, unfortunately, many men do with women when they aren't confident they can keep the girl - knowledge is power), and/or 2.) is there any potential for adding sex in the mix making things blow up between the two of you and destroying the mentoring relationship? Both of those are the real dangers you face.

On the plus side, a sexual relationship with a mentor can also mean he becomes even more invested in and dedicated to your success, and it's pretty normal for opposite-sex mentors/mentees to develop mutual attraction (a former lawyer of mine met his wife as one of the students he was mentoring in a class he taught; they ended up having children and forming a successful law practice together).

I'd say, weigh the risks with what you know about the guy, and the worst case scenario; and if you still want to go for it, and you know the risks and are willing to take them, then go do it - life is short!

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Chase, I've got a problem


Chase,
I've got a problem here concerning cold approach.
I've cold approached a girl and it was like this:
Me: " Hi , I saw you and I had to come to tell you that.....
But I stopped as she watched me like 'why the hell is that guy talking to me?'
I lost confidence and did not know what to say.
how should I deal with this kind of situation .I've read your post on
"how to deal with rejection "but still could not find anything.

Chase Amante's picture

Direct Approaches

Author

Anon-

You've got to finish what you're saying. That's something that'll happen, especially with direct, time and again: you open the girl, start delivering your opener, she looks at you like you're an alien from outer space, and then you conclude with the compliment and introduction, and her eyes light up, she goes, "Ohhhh!" and a big smile slaps itself all over her face. That opener is designed to confuse and off-balance a woman in order to build up the anticipation before the delivery of the compliment; it's why the structure works so much better (than, say, just running up to a girl and going, "You're beautiful! I'm Joe").

You just need to finish your opener and communicate why you're there. Worry about rejection when a girl actually rejects you, and otherwise soldier on.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Personality type


Hi Chase, I've been thinking lately, what is your opinion on personality typing, namely those of the field of nlp? I know myers-briggs includes some dichotomies but then you see even more types which I'm not even sure how they came up with. I've never been a big fan of them but it's obvious that there are different personality types out there. What I'm interested in is if there is actually a fundamental difference in the way different personalities are processing stimuli. Just from working on myself and analyzing other guys, I notice you can really spot the difference between an "alpha" and a "beta" male (let's just use modern day conventional standards to make things easier). It's a very different energy these two groups of guys give off - let's just say a beta is more submissive, quiet, warm, empathetic etc. and it's all expressed in body language from posture to voice tone. Alphas are dominant, lead and need less approval, have better posture and deep rich voices, but are less empathetic etc. It's not too far of a reach to say that betas are somewhat feminine.

So through my whole transformation, I have definitely tried cultivating my masculine qualities. It has not been easy and some days I incur 180 degree shifts. So much so that I'm wondering if I'm experiencing some kind of switch in the way my mind is functioning, specifically relating to the internal and external frame category. The biggest difference I notice when I've changed is that I am less nurturing and empathetic. I don't have feelings of love, connection, or attachment. Is it possible that people are born with personality characteristics like internal or external frames which lead to masculine and feminine behaviors and not that this is all sorted out in the social realm? Is it even possible to change your personality through and through and not just temporarily? I notice my game is completely different in these two different states, one is where I'm extremely confident, dominant and entitled (one where I don't even "game" in my opinion) and the other where I'm more smooth and classically charming. I do feel more effective in the former state, but it is possible that it's due to perceived confidence. How would I even know if one is better than the other?

I'd also like to know if it's possible to make a permanent shift because it feels very strange going back and forth.

Anonymous's picture

I should add that my mind is


I should add that my mind is more hypersensitive to the environment and reactionary to others. I can hear my thoughts and breathing whereas when I make that shift I don't really care about the environment and the energy seems to be drawn towards me instead of the other way around. For this reason I am thinking maybe it is a cognitive process vs. just a difference in thought. It is possible though that the mind is focused on value and whichever state i'm in it makes the necessary adjustments.

On a tangent, I have always wondered if it's beneficial to always be confident when speaking with others. It seems like there's a tradeoff between respect and dominance, and connection. I guess this is more related to non-pickup situations like when you're making small talk with a new guy. If he's not very confident himself, and you show too much value I feel like I give off a "I'm better than you" or a "I'm a rich snob" vibe like I'm talking down to him even though I'm not trying to. Some guys will either not feel a connection, feel threatened or just be jealous of you. Like attracts like, and don't "nice guys" prefer other "nice guys?" Obviously it's not a good idea to micro manage your personality, but how should we approach different personality/status types?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Personality type

Author

Anon-

I think the article that'll be the most insightful for the personality-switching / meshing with other personalities you're discussing is this one: "Social Styles as a Tool in Sales and Seduction."

Personality typing is useful; Myers-Briggs has been debunked research-wise, and the woman who came up with it more or less drew it out of thin air. It's still fun to play around with, but I wouldn't base any major social decisions around using it… one of the major reasons I prefer Social Styles (and other similar systems) is because it's simpler - 4 categories, instead of 16.

Re: whether it's possible to permanently change your personality, some aspects you can modify, though there are always core parts of "you" that are unlikely to be modified (or impossible to, depending on what research you read). I for one can look back over how I've changed throughout my life and see many noticeable changes; I can also remember all manner of thoughts and feelings I had as a 3-year-old that are pretty close to how I think and feel now. You change in some directions, but remain the same in others.

Re: whether you're more effective in talkative mode or smooth mode (see this article: "3 Flavors of Sexy: Brooding, Smooth, and Talkative Vibes"), the best thing you can do is track your results: phone numbers, dates, and, most importantly, new lovers and girlfriends - how many and how high caliber are the ones you get in each vibe? What are the differences between the two? You'll probably notice you end up with one kind of girl when you're talkative, and a different kind when smooth - which type is your preferred type (or do you like having a good smattering of both)? Once you have that information, you can make an informed decision about whether you want to steer yourself more toward behaving one way more often than you currently are (or train yourself to be that way most of the time).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Flirting


One day a girl asked me "Do i have anything in my hair?" and then she got her hair out of a pony tail, and stroked her fingers through her nice long soft hair in front of me... Is that a sign of flirting?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Flirting

Author

A heavy one, yes.

Just remember that flirting doesn't always = attraction she'll act on. So if you want to know if she's flirting because she wants you to move things toward the two of you being together, or if she's flirting because she wants male attention and validation and otherwise has no intention of actually doing anything with you, you must escalate the interaction (move her, ask her out, sleep with her, etc.).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hi chase, is your book


Hi chase, is your book focused on inner game as well? Specifically regardingchanging beliefs.

Chase Amante's picture

eBook Focus

Author

Anon-

I focus (both here and in my eBook) on changing beliefs through taking action and achieving results - e.g., you can pump up a guy's confidence all you want and tell him women love sex when he doesn't yet believe that and tell him he can conquer the world if he just believes in himself, but if he doesn't actually do anything with that information, once he's quit reading your stuff all that pump up fades away and he's right back where he started.

From that point of view, I tend to think I do a better job straightening out guys' internals than any of the guys who focus on inner game specifically, because I'm teaching you how to go out and methodically and systematically level up your results further and further, and that (results and success) is the single best and most dramatic permanent inner game booster there is.

Of course, I'm biased ;) I might suggest asking guys on the discussion boards for their thoughts if you want a second opinion from guys who've read the book and applied it and can tell you how their own belief systems have changed.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Cook


A wise man once told me that the best way to a womans vagina is through her stomach. Is that true?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Cook

Author

Anon-

I rarely cook for women, but have had a pretty strong batting average with it when I have... and I have it on good authority from others I respect that this can be an excellent path to bedroom acrobatics, yeah. If you aren't too lazy to cook, having a few good recipes you pull out to wow women's tastebuds can put them in the right mood to want to wow you in other ways, too.

Chase

Gem's picture

Gaining Wisdom


Hey Chase,

I’ve been thinking about that response on external influence that you wrote. I found the thoughts really constructive and a paranoid part of me has been all this week keeping in mind that everything can influence me (so to take care and try to be aware as much as I can of all I take in). It makes sense that as you work to fix bigger parts of your life, you recognize where you are being influenced more (I know that a lot of the things I read about, take in, think about and do now, I find amusing in that if I were exposed to them even just a year ago it would be all so over my head and I would think “eh whatevers I’m gonna go play my trombone or play video games now”).

I liked the Derek Sivers article you sent (and it was published that day!). I found it funny at first that you sent me to Siver’s site because I’ve been reading from his book reviews really intently the past couple months (but I found Siver’s site after I bought Sebastian’s book, which was after I found and read a lot from his site, which I found from How to Make Girls Chase; so I have you to thank indirectly for some great reading material I’ve had the privilege of getting to read the past few months).

I’ve read a great deal from Sebastian’s site (really liked his book too, I found it particularly insightful); he is so actively embarked on progress and always working to make more progress. What I’ve been wondering about here (as I continue to learn, work and grow) is that is there an age or an extent of time for older improvement-oriented guys, where after x threshold is crossed, you will not gain much more new wisdom? Do you forget wisdoms and lessons and then become reminded of them again after some instance or repeat happening; or maybe it is like weight training and after a certain point there are diminishing returns to progress further and learn more? I think you alluded to how part of learning more and knowing more is a cyclical process (and that you get to a point where you can know more and more but figure that it doesn’t make much difference because you accept that you know a minuscule amount at the end of the day maybe a tiny step ahead of a small child), maybe that’s the answer here.

Regarding getting wiser, as someone becomes increasingly wiser, do they necessarily become more scattered and distracted (like a philosopher with his head in the clouds)? Sebastian’s book Ikigai I liked a great deal, but the ideas presented in it were sort of scattered in this same way (and I think I see this with other people I like following or listening to). I find it happening to me now in class, day-to-day and with girls: I’ll be distracted and always thinking about a new idea, or something I’ve read about or written about (but then the time I do put into the class or task or girl is in contrast more focused, intense, raw and real). I think at a point you sort of learn to keep a grounded state on the exterior and speak your words in measurable doses from all you know and all you have to say stored in the bank (the outside is relaxed, but the inside is incessantly swimming with new ideas and possibilities; sort of like Girlschase how your own knowledge about seduction Chase might be so vast but what's written on the site is methodical, linear and given in healthy doses so that it can be relatable and effectively presented).

By the way, I liked this article about mentorship. I’ve always found that I’d been that natural mentee type and good at finding mentors (and it helped cut the learning curve for me in many hobbies/endeavors), however, I’ve just newly been getting to understand that not everyone wants to be the mentor and some people just want to be the buddy to hang out with and have a beer with.

Regarding the concept of “when you are ready they will appear”, I always suspected as I move through life and meet more people, travel to new places and gain more experiences, I’ll come into contact with more people that share goals similar to mine and that can make good mentors or comrades. I’ve followed people and read about people who’re very into improving themselves but have not met anyone before who was as deeply entrenched in bettering themselves (don’t mean this is in a boastful way more than most people aren’t that crazy; friends of mine have tended to be very open–minded and smart/improve oriented people, just not knee deep stuck in it like me).

“When you are ready they will appear” happened to me last week and I met a guy who’s my age who got a job recently as a touring motivational speaker. It was funny and amazing for both of us because we’d never met someone else as into bettering themselves as each other apparently. We got to talking and a few hours flew by as we discussed different stuff that we read, stuff we write about, people we follow, strategies for time management, scheduling, getting girls, eating healthy and a bunch other eccentric things that we do. Before this, the most I’d talked to about interests such as these had been girlfriends who would be sweet and curious and open minded but not at that same level where they could give a lot back (just a level where I could enjoy sharing some bits with them).

As you continue to raise your own value, friends like these are more the type that you should spend your limited time with right? And if your value keeps increasing are you doomed to find less people like this?

Sorry for being so long-winded in this reply. Reading this article, I wanted to say how I really do appreciate the tips/ideas/suggestions you give and try to use them practically, and how I realize that I don’t really report back to you all that much (and that it would be nice of me to do so; the mentor gets some satisfaction in return). I’ll try to change this in the future and leave more responses and notes of my progress.

Thanks,

-Gem

Chase Amante's picture

Wisdom, Scattered Thoughts, and Finding Mentors

Author

Gem-

There's a lot in that comment!

You get used to everything influencing you, and just accept that everything around you will put thoughts and ideas in your head, and just police it all more diligently. I'm very careful about what's influencing me, and pay a lot of attention to mood, too - if I notice I'm feeling bad / cynical / negative, I quickly sit and look at everything I'm taking in throughout the day that's influencing me to feel that way, and start cutting out whatever it is that's creeped in and causing it.

What you're talking about with being scattered you'll notice mostly on blogs, forums, or in talking to guys who've been idea generators for a while, and it's part of the idea-formation process. So, when you have a guy who's actively putting together new ideas about the world (rather than someone who's improvement-oriented and just following what other people lay out rather than cranking out lots of ideas), when you're seeing his thoughts on a more regular basis, you get exposed to a lot of scattered / uncongealed thinking before it's been firmly plotted into a method. e.g., if you read GC these days, you'll hear me talk about sprezzatura and the Law of Least Effort and it's concrete and well-defined and fits into a certain position in what I teach. But if you were around me in 2009 or 2010, you'd have heard me throw a lot of vague things out there about effort and investment and power dynamics and status and it would've sounded scattered and confused.

Generally, guys who've been at idea formation longer will tend to have more intellectual "works in progress", and especially if they aren't actively making an effort to make things fit with canon and accessible to beginners, as I try to do with the articles on GC, it can look like an amalgam of all sorts of different things - which it is, since ideas come from other ideas being tossed up, diced to pieces, and then stitched back together and then (hopefully) tested for efficacy and real-world application. Whenever I have something new (or new-ish), one of the first things I do when writing it out in a GC article is ask myself, "How does this tie in with canon, and where does it overlap nice and where does it potentially conflict?" I then work out the kinks to tie everything in and make it all less scattered, which also helps with me remembering the thing later and not forgetting it only to re-think it up later in slightly different terms, which is another thing you see with idea guys (periodically stumbling on the same idea again and again until they properly codify it and remember it).

There is also a degree of staying grounded publicly, yes; there are certain topics that take a long time to put in grounded terms, and others that there just isn't a way to talk about openly without sounding like a madman or turning yourself into a pariah, even among people who "get it."

On finding people you can learn from and gel with, it's been my experience that you run into these sorts of people more, not less, as you advance. Partly it's that you begin to recognize others like you more easily; partly it's that they begin to notice you too. I suppose it depends on how actively you are looking, though - if you're the sort who holes himself away in an apartment somewhere and rarely goes outside, you'll meet a lot fewer people like this than if you're the sort who goes out all the time, hosts parties and events, attends tons of others, and networks out the behind - I've been both of those guys, and there is a difference. Getting out, and especially, going to places where you're more likely to meet interesting people, is important for this - the good news is, as you meet more interesting people, you'll tend to get more invites to more places that has them, and you begin to happen into new contacts almost accidentally that way. There's something of a snowball effect, particularly if you're active in looking for new people to meet.

Chase

Balla's picture

Get over feelings of chasing from the past


Hey chase, how did you and how do you get over the negative feelings of when you chased a girl? And I mean chased her the hardest you chased in your life, how did you get over it and how do I get over it?

The fact I chased the girl so hard in the past makes me think about the girl, its like a double edge sword. Even though I get girls that look way better than her, I still think about the chasing I did and being the nice guy that I was.

It kills me to think that I chased a girl that can't compete with any girl I talk to now and it kills me to know that I didn't get what I want with the girl I chased after.

This part might be funny to you but I actually didnt chase as hard as you describe not to in your post. I actually was persistent and I would ask her out like once in a while. But the fact I didn't succeed with this lower standard girl just makes me feel bad for being persistent with her when she wasn't a big deal. In my mind I feel if she looked absolutely stunning and never gave me play I wouldn't be angry about it because she looks good, but if she's lower average I feel like shit because she ain't shit.

Basically I want to know how does one get over the feeling of chasing a girl who isn't even stunning and not fucking her, and how did you get over the girl you chased the hardest? Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Get over feelings of chasing from the past

Author

Balla-

Best thing you can do about that in my mind is just laugh about it. I'll look back on girls I chased before, and will go, "Ah, that was dumb." You'll still have an emotional desire to conquer the girl there - that's a pretty natural human urge; to get closure, and leave as the one in power. All you can do is to accept that those emotions are irrationally tied to how much you chased, and NOT to the inherent value of the girl, and that it's just evolution playing tricks on your mind - then cut contact with the girl and not look back.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Break down the wall


Howdy Chase,

I hope you can help me with a few insights into my situation. There's this girl in my social circle I'm fond of (as in 'I love all those beautiful gals', not 'that one special girl' type). For more than a year we haven't been in touch often, then I met her again recently in a social circle meetup and found out that we're both going to visit and stay in her hometown in the upcoming days (different trips but same destination); so naturally I arranged for a meetup. Now, the plan is to turn on max sexy vibe and push for the lay that night (logistics look perfect, also happens to know she's lonely and single). The thing is, while I don't have a lot trouble getting sexual and flirting with other gals, every conversation I had with this one always feel emotionally-detached, like between us has no connection whatsoever. Even when I get her to share with me a lot of her personal, intimate experiences, it still feels like two zombies talking to each other. I don't know if it's personality clash or sth, but it frustrates me a lot, even a platonic vibe at least has some fun in it.
I know I'm probably fighting the odds here, but I see this as a good shot I can take, for learning experience at least. So is there a way I can fix the bad vibe between us and turn it into a sexual one?
Thanks a lot ;).

Chase Amante's picture

Sexual Vibe with Non-Sexual Girl

Author

Anon-

You'll run into that with some girls - no matter what you do, they just don't seem to be able to turn on the sexual. That's fine - these are normally just very rational women who aren't as emotional as most girls are. They can be lots of fun as girlfriends or paramours... they're often quite different from the more usual fare you'll run into. Alternately, sometimes they're just women who haven't unlocked their sex drives yet and are just very emotionally out of touch.

The key with these girls is to not worry about the lack of a sexual vibe between the two of you, and instead just continue escalating touch and compliance. As you escalate these two, she'll become increasingly invested and increasingly comfortable with your touch, and you may even begin to trigger sexual feelings in her after all. At the very least, even if she fails to turn on at all, if she continues to go along with you as you ramp up compliance, you can eventually lead her to sexual intimacy sans emotion - you'll be surprised, but sometimes a girl you've escalated things with but who's given you no indication of sexual desire for you will assent to your advances simply because she's rationally decided, "What the heck. This guy seems cool - I might as well do it."

Chase

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