Does Confidence = Success? Actually... No. | Girls Chase

Does Confidence = Success? Actually... No.

The Daily Mail had a piece on U.S. college students' confidence levels shooting sky high while their actual competence and performance in the areas of their confidence dipped to new lows a few days back (the original article's here).

confidence success

The article mentioned research finding that that more and more young people were carrying bigger and bigger life goals, and more and more of them were falling short and slipping into depression and anxiety disorders.

It quoted psychologist Jean Twenge as saying "You need to believe that you can go out and do something but that's not the same as thinking that you're great," and, "An intervention that encourages [students] to feel good about themselves, regardless of work, may remove the reason to work hard."

I thought it was a fantastic article for one reason: the clear differentiation between confidence and success.

I've always found the, "I just need to tell myself I can do it, and then I can do it!" approach to "achieving things" to be a little daft, and it's nice to see some research backing this up.

I'd like to talk with you a little about this today, because, if this research is anything, there are fewer and fewer people out there like me who think that the secret to success is just going out there and busting your chops until you get there, and more and more who think you can just think your way to success.

Well, I've got news for those people: nuh-uh.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Comments

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase,

I noticed in your articles you talk about cutting off contact from women where things didn't go as planned or where you get a rejection/friendzone. When you cut off contact, do you respond even when they respond to you by text or instant message? Currently I have women who semi rejected me who now just want to contact me due to the attention I used to give them. Do you even respond or do you just give polite responses without giving any substantial investment? Thanks!!!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

I don't use instant message (it's way too distracting and make it too easy for people to interrupt you or request/demand your time whenever is convenient for them, rather than you), but when girls I've cut contact with message me I will respond back, but I make it relatively cool to discourage anything other than, "Hey, let's get together! Name the time and place!" type message.

I recently had a girl who tried to friend zone me a while back shoot me a message on a social networking site I'm on (she has my email, but didn't use it). Basically, she said she hadn't heard from me in a while and asked me what was going on with me. My response was essentially a 2-line message that read yeah, I haven't heard from you either. Life's good; busy as always. How's things with you / still in the same city? Didn't get a response back from her... she was probably hoping for something warmer/ friendlier that made her feel warm & fuzzy. I reserve that for women I've just met / am heading somewhere with / who haven't put up walls against me.

Of course, I'm actively trying to keep women OUT who are going to waste my time, because I"m very busy, and I actually have zero interest in seeing a girl again once I've spent time on her and it hasn't gone anywhere. My philosophy is, life's short, there are BILLIONS of women in the world, and if you've wasted my time once you don't get a second chance to do that. If you're not meeting quite as many women or you're not as closed off to meeting girls from the past again, I wouldn't suggest being as cool in tone to girls you've cut contact with as I am. There's probably a happy medium where you're somewhat cool but you make it relatively easy for her to win your attentions back, so long as she's doing things on your terms.

Chase

Balla's picture

Hey chase glad you wrote this, I've been depending on feeling good and when I don't feel good when it comes to approaching but I never thought of just forging through it.

So even if you can tell a girl is not interested in you like she's very aloof you just push through the process correct?

What if your process doesn't go as planned and something interrupts your process? How do you get back on track and ignore what ever interrupted you?

Lastly, how do you not become outcome dependent and how do you have abundance mentality when you don't have any girls? Thanks!

Peace,
Balla

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Balla,

Yeah, absolutely - you've got to get in the habit of acting in spite of emotions. If you keep waiting for emotions to be perfect to take a certain action, you'll be waiting a looong time (maybe forever).

If you can TELL a girl isn't interested in you, I recommend trying to get her to move with you once, just to make sure your read isn't wrong (sometimes it IS; a girl's acting mean, say, but she's actually very into and that's how she flirts, or she's horny and doesn't have the patience to flirt). If she won't move with you, just leave. There are some folks out there who recommend "plowing" ahead with girls even if you can tell they don't like you, but I don't usually find that does anything other than drain your energy and momentum and annoy the girl, too. If she isn't feeling you, she isn't feeling you; see if she'll move with you, and if not, move onto the next girl.

If things don't go according to plan, no worries; just wait a moment and try again, or adjust on the fly. You typically want to make sure your process is high enough level that you're not having it go off track just because one little thing here or there didn't go perfectly. Keep it to big picture steps and improve on the little details.

Outcome dependence: well, you've really just got to forge on ahead in spite of not having abundance mentality yet where you feel like women are an abundant resource (and not a scarce one). What I did before I had abundance was try to guess how I guy who DID would act in a given situation, and then act that way. Eventually you get the right mannerisms and behaviors and actions down, that way even if you haven't reached abundance, you're acting almost like a guy who has.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

I know it doesn't have to do much with the topic,but I went out on a date with a girl after one hour we were kissing I tried 6-7 times she didn't want to go to my place.Anyways now when I'm trying to get 2nd date she started saying she can see me only for a short time she is busy(I know she isn't) then started asking investment from me (if you can come where I live like 20min drive we can see for a short time) then I reschedule for next day(I want her close to my place)says she has "basketball"game I mean I know its excuses,but Im'not really sure what to say or how react.Chase I would really appreciate your opinion on this.Tnx.!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

You've run smack into an escalation window - see my response to you the first time you voiced this topic over on the "being a challenge" article here:

http://www.girlschase.com/content/being-challenge-women-really-turning-t...

Chase

Vaughn 's picture

Hey chase how do I stop from getting jealous of guys getting girls, girls I like that I see with other guys( especially if I know the guy) and how do I stop being insecure?
Thank you!!!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Howdy Vaughn,

Quick and easy trick: every time you feel an emotion like this kicking in, say to yourself, "Okay, time for me to go get MY girl," then go start approaching new women.

For instance, you're out at a bar or a party and you see one of your friends getting somewhere with a girl... so, you say to yourself, "All right; time for me to do the same," and then go meet some new girls.

If there aren't any new girls there to meet, get out of that situation and go somewhere there are. There are girls SOMEWHERE around you - the street, another bar, another party, a bookstore, a coffee shop, etc. Somewhere not far from where you are, if not exactly where you are, wherever you are, there are women you can meet - and if you're jealous another guy is meeting women, that's your brain's way of telling you it's time for you to go meet some women, too.

Chase

Vaughn 's picture

To be honest no I don't approach 30-40 a week.. maybe that's where I mess up at. But chase I don't have a car so I only know girls from work and social circle, I can't go do the approaching like you say. So should I try to pick up customers while working? What else can I do? And everything is far and I need a car, I can't walk. I also remember you saying that guys with passions do better with women. So am I focusing too much about women when I read your articles? Cause I'm addicted to them. I'm kinda saying am I focusing to much on women by reading your articles? I fantasize about using your techniques with girls I know and have, is that my problem? Thank you!!!

Zac's picture

Whaddup Chase,

I have to disagree partially with you on these. Mainly i been reading, researching and practicing myself with process and get results. It's more to myself not able to reach there yet. A lot of people read books like The Secret and Napolean Hill, Stephen R Covey and misintepret all this amazing people teachings. Most of them just quote from a certain book and that's it, that's their life and what they read and learn. But just like someone were to quote something from your article and put it as just 'that', it sure does cost a narrow perspective too. I feel that there are people out there who wants to succeed, but only a few reach there. The key is like what you have written, The Process, but most people misintepret self help just by the a certain portion of the whole book, or article, or information. The thing here is Drive, what do you need to be certain enough to know you will pursue this? The "why's" as i would say (not a good word representation of it but ya).

You have to see, read the big picture. A lot of the self help books out there do address this.

Zac

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Zac,

I'm not down on the entire self help picture, just the people who's main message is "be confident."

I'm a HUGE fan of Napoleon Hill; The Laws of Success is an absolute classic (I'm re-listening to it right now, in fact).

There's plenty of great stuff out there in the self help industry. The only sharks I'm saying to watch out for in the waters are the ones selling snake oil "be confident" messages that don't have a whole lot of substance attached to back that up.

Chase

Flames's picture

Haha thanks for this 'angry' style post Chase and thanks for telling things how it is.

Your absolutely right of course Confidence is no match for hard work. Although in seduction Confidence is a highly desirable trait, it's the confidence of knowing, not the over-confidence of not knowing, and that's the distinction.

One thing with the inner game though and that's fundamentals. I'm completely confident in some of my fundamental skills, because I've worked hard on them over the years, some I've completely rebuilt and some just needed a polish, but overall I'm not sure that I'm really that confident.

I do know I can get what I want through putting the effort into areas I'm weak at, maybe that's a different kind of confidence, a self-belief and determination, true grit... that's not something you can fake.

Regards
Flames

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Flames,

Confidence absolutely is a great trait, and an attractive one, yes. And, having inner confidence in your ability to achieve things through enough hard work is vital.

I'm simply not a believer that you can just WILL yourself to confidence, is my main gripe with most of this advice. If you lack confidence in your ability to achieve things, for instance, what you really need is to get yourself started working to achieve small things so you can teach your brain that the alternative is true, and you CAN achieve things. Sitting there willing yourself to be confident won't overcome your own prior experiences; you need new experiences.

I think you could set confidence as a GOAL (and in fact, I set this as one of mine, early on; and it's a goal in everything I undertake), and do very well. For instance, you might say, "I want to be incredibly, unbelievably confident with women," and then work toward that. By the time you get there, you'll have amassed a great deal of experience with women, and you'll know exactly what you're doing with them, and this will give you confidence. Women will see that confidence, and be attracted.

When you're not confident overall, all that means is you need more experience (more SUCCESSFUL experience) overall. So, work on figuring out how you can get yourself more success - then tackle it head on. Success, goes the saying, breeds confidence.

Chase

Victor's picture

Great article, Chase. It is true, of course - only hard, focused work gets things done. Somehow, it reminded me of Lt. Col. Dubois from "Starship Troopers" by R. A. Heinlein and his history and moral philosophy lessons.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Victor,

You know, I am guilty of not having read the book on that one. The film didn't give quite enough portrayal of what his lessons in school were like, but the character there was pretty hardnosed - I could see the movie character holding the same views.

Chase

Funman's picture

Chase,

Every single time you write an article I get "aha" moments. There is so much to learn from you.

I agree that process is very important for success.

However,

1)What are your views on daily affirmations by looking in the mirror/ breathing exercises?

2) Visualizing a successful sales meeting/ job interview? (I've heard also sportsmen do this)

3) I understand confidence is an emotion , but delusional confidence along with the skill would produce even better results, because the person is more relaxed?

4) In the self-help community people talk a lot about being present/ in the moment etc. When you are doing a picking up are you always present or are you in your head?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Funman,

I'd have to look it up, but I saw some research a little while back finding that affirmations conducted by people who believed contrary to the affirmation (e.g., saying, "I am really, really handsome," when you think you're really, really ugly) made them feel a lot worse, while affirmations said by people who were neutral or believed similarly to the affirmation made them feel marginally better.

Anyway, these days I do visualizations daily in the morning after meditating to get my mind clear. I find this very helpful for keeping focused on what I'm trying to accomplish, and in letting me to picture it and train my mind to expect it and work toward it.

I plan on doing a post on visualizations at some point on here; there's a lot to cover on doing these properly.

Confidence mixed with skill - if the confidence has the effect of getting you taking action, it can produce results, yes. In the article on how to be a dominant man, I cited a fair amount of research finding that testosterone boosts led to increased confidence, dominance, assertiveness, risk taking, and future success. So long as it's mixed in with those other characteristics, confidence can be a factor in propelling you to success. You simply don't want to view it as a stand-alone motivator and expect it to do much good, is all; it needs to be in conjunction with the other traits.

And, as far as where my head is at when I'm doing a pickup: I'm usually present, although my presence is divided between paying attention to what's being said verbally along with what's being communicated nonverbally (eyes, mouth, gestures, expressions, breathing rate, etc.). I'm essentially running on autopilot. My mind might drift and be thinking about what I'm going to do tomorrow for lunch or where I'll take my next trip occasionally, or it might be thinking about how much time I have left before I need to be somewhere else or this place closes or that girl leaves, but otherwise it's mostly present. The more you do this, the more everything moves onto autopilot and the less time you spend thinking through it and the more you run through it smoothly, naturally, and instinctively, without a conscious thought in the world.

Chase

Jo's picture

I like this article. As I read the title I said to myself, Confidence does not lead to success, but success leads to confidence. It's the certainty of knowing which actions need to be taken and which other actions need avoiding. It's certainty of designing and choosing which paths to take and which other paths to avoid. And your conclusions can be logically verified with reasons, with experience. To draw an analogy, confidence comes after you've played detective like Law and Order and have done your homework, investigating, experimenting, and doing. You cannot be certain of anything that you haven't ever tried to do. That's why when people say they're confident about something that I know they haven't really ever done, I say to myself, this fool is arrogant...but I don't say anything.

That's why process is king. The end goal of doing anything should be success, (and for me, I also like that shot of testosterone that I get when I succeed). I also would add that people should say to themselves ahead of time that failure is a strong possibility when you try, but that the negative emotion will pass. And that the process may need tweaking along the way, but that it's much better to "put your thumb on the scale" and force success into your life, rather than either never taking action or just randomly and occasionally achieving success without realizing why. Without being to replicate. Without being able to teach.

And also, process lends it self to the law of least effort. Once you get your process down and start executing it, then you can start asking questions like "so how do I get better results with less effort?" And then you tweak.

And for me that's why trying to get girls is so rewarding because I get to see the results of my hard work, in real-time. And I don't know about other guys, but I get emotional in real-time sometimes. When those emotions come in, the fear, the anxiety, the excitement, sometimes it's hard to concentrate until I calm down. But if I focused heavily on my process in my downtime, my subconscious mind already knows the process. Then I can run on auto-pilot until I calm down.

I've literally been dead afraid like a damn mouse while talking to women. But recently I've been telling myself during the heat of the moment that this stupid emotion will pass, just focus on the end! And then as she warms up I calm down and can focus on other things.

I've come to learn that during the heightened emotional state, I can still tease, flirt, banter, be dominant and sexy without consciously thinking about it. Sometimes it's like the right words just flow without any effort.

And then if she comes home with me after I invited her, I just smile to myself and say, wow, I was afraid but now look at this sexy woman who is dripping with anticipation for what will happen next. And I just shake my head in amazement. And if she doesn't come home with me, I still feel like a winner because I remember when I couldn't even say "hello!" to girls. Even if I don't get a girl that I tried for an hour or two with, I still feel like I've won.

For me trying to get better with girls is the ultimate reward because I can apply so many of these skills (like persisting despite the fear, etc) in so many other areas of my life.

Great article.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Jo,

Fantastic comment here.

“You cannot be certain of anything that you haven't ever tried to do,” is right on the money. Emotions in real-time are very common; everyone gets them. They don’t fade away until everything you’re doing you’ve done a hundred times, and even then they can come surging back if you find yourself rusty, or if you end up in a novel situation that’s unlike things you’ve seen before. And there are always novel situations ready to jump up and surprise you at the most unlikeliest of times.

You sound like you’re well along the right path getting better with things, and enjoying the ride. It’s maybe a little clichéd to say it, but the old saying about courage being feeling the fear and acting anyway is always appropriate when you’re learning new and daunting skills – and the most daunting new skills to learn are almost always ones dealing with other people (a few others like free climbing fit in there too).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Confidence is good if you have a plan. Telling yourself that you're confident but then not actually being an active agent and achieving success is a bunch of crap.

I've read your blog post on meeting girls in class at college, but I find it to be much more geared towards smaller classes of about 30 students max. I attend a large college and my classes usually have at least 100 students, sometimes 250 + students.

In these large classes, there is more anonymity; the class (or large college, for that matter) does not function social circle. It's more like real life. I'm wondering if it is wiser to move even faster here.

My normal process has been to arrive 2-4 minutes before, and carefully scan the lecture hall upon entrance for an attractive girl who ideally is not sitting with a friend. This can be a bit tricky though because you don't want to be seen as really scanning the room-- violates law of least effort. Also just today, I thought this girl was a 8 from the back/side, but then I sit down and she's more like a 5 at best, 4 when I hear her voice... Anyways, then I go sit next to her, chat it up, class starts (which I might add... really changes the mood from seductive to well... boring), and then begin conversation up at the end, and walk out of the class with her. I'll do a little bit of deep diving if there is time, and then try to grab a number to set up lunch/meet up before the next class.

What do you think about this? Any suggestions/tips? Also I've never seen girls just stand around at the exit after class waiting to be talked to by guys. Most people in college are in major auto-pilot mode (get out of class, go grab a coffee)--- especially after having listened to a boring lecture.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Anon,

I had a few classes like that in college, but I only recall talking to a few girls in them. You could probably get away with passing notes back and forth, or maybe even some in-class chatting if you're off in one of the far corners of the forum (I'm assuming these classes are in the large forum-like rooms with a central stage and ascending rows of seats ringing the stage on one side). I'd say your best bet is, yes, treating it like a more anonymous environment and meeting the girl and grabbing her number all in one sitting.

The reason you need to move slower in normal classes isn't actually the girl herself; it's the social environment, where people are paying more attention, and she needs to keep up appearances of not being too quick to jump at meeting some new man. But if she's surrounded by strangers in a big forum-like class, this becomes a lot less of a concern.

Scanning as you walk in the door is okay and even dominant if you do it calmly and confidently. You can actually do this just about anywhere; I typically do it whenever I'm first entering a new arena. You need to step in, stop at the entrance, and calmly and slowly turn your head about and very deliberately scan the room. You might almost say you should look like you're trying to be seen doing it.

Most people obliviously enter places and make a beeline for wherever they're going, but this actually looks a bit less controlled than the person who steps in, stops, and looks around. The social pressure tends to be to keep moving, and this is a way of both getting your bearings and showing that you don't care a great deal about social pressure.

On waiting around - a girl will slow down a little bit or deliberately take longer to gather her things if she's trying to give you a window to talk to her. She won't simply stop and wait, though - that's very unusual, unless she knows you and likes you a lot and it's a very small class. Even then, it's uncommon.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Great article man.

I too am working on my process with women. My main hang up now is how to let a woman that I truly do like know, in an alluring, intriguing, gracious, yet non-creepy way that I view her as a sexual option? I don't want to come out and tell her directly, but I want her to KNOW and FEEL that I want to rip her clothes off! And to get her excited by the thought of it! There's multiple ways to do this, and I have a few ideas, but I know I haven't thought of them all nor have I thought on which method is the most efficient (sprezzatura my friend). Perhaps you can help me.

One method would be to sexualize the conversation by using innuendo and other subtle-yet-obvious methods of communication. At this stage in my seduction career, I'm very rough around the edges in this regard and I'm much more literal. I know from experience that being too literal in this regard and too soon chases some girls away. But since I'm trying to maximize my chances of success, if I do choose to use conversation to express my sexual interest, do you have any clever recommendations for conversation starters or methods to thread-cut to go down the sexual path in socially gracious/acceptable and intriguing ways?

Another option would be to have sexual and dominant eye contact, and otherwise be dominant after deep-diving and hope she gets sexual on her own. I've done this before (without knowing at the time) and some women took the initiative to sexualize on their own! Once they do that, then my subconscious fear of "women thinking that all I want from them is sex" quickly vanishes and then I can escalate and go in to overdrive. But waiting for a woman to take such initiative isn't very effective or efficient, and they usually don't do so anyway. Any advice?

Another option would be to deep-dive then flirt about their eyes or lips or even body and touch her in the right ways, and to skip all sexual conversation altogether. Instead what I do is tell a girl she's pretty or has a nice body or tell her some other things I like about her. Now this action might be charming and may communicate some sexual interest, but I don't think it is very effective and efficient in communicating how much. And it certainly doesn't have women responding to me as a dominant and sexy lover who has the savvy to have control over my interactions. Instead I feel like if I use this option that I'm coming across as some cute friend. Any advice?

My underlying issue regarding getting sexual first without a woman's verbal initiative is that my subconscious mind right now is fearful of activating their auto-rejection, since alot of guys are horn dogs. Some women I've spoken to seriously believe that ALL men just want sex. Period. Even if he goes on multiple dates, deep-dives, invests in her, and shows her that he cares about her through action (and not words), calls her to check on her and treat her like a GF, with some women they think this guy is just treating them nice because he wants one thing! And the minute you go sexual, they say to themselves "aha, I knew that's what that motherfucker wanted!" And they auto-reject. Or at least it appears that they are in auto-rejection. And then I have no clue what to say and how to respond. Because to me it's not logical. Why would a woman, who acts interested, flirts with a guy, go on multiple dates with a man (as opposed to doing something else with her life) that she knows likes her and who touches her and looks at her with sexy eye contact and clearly expresses his interest in her, and doesn't act like a nice-guy friend?

Why would she start getting upset when she's invited home or the topic of potential sex is implied? The logic escapes me. Other than to say it's a test or power play. But I've thus far been unable to come up with a solution for this outcome (a woman saying [but not necessarily meaning] that all I want is sex) without me supplicating or "proving myself worthy" and thus, lowering my attraction in her eyes. This is the dilemma that I face. Any word of advice?

Once again, great article man!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hi Anon,

Women absolutely want sex. And they're enamored with men who exude sex. The men they get frustrated about wanting sex - the one they're complaining about when they say, "All men want sex!" - are not the sexy men who want sex that they want sex with too. They're happy these guys want sex. The ones they're complaining about are the ones they want to friend zone who want sex too.

What they're trying to say is, "Why can't SOME guys (the guys I want to have sex with) want to have sex with me, and OTHER guys (the ones I DON'T want to have sex with) NOT want to have sex with me?" But actually, even this is a farce; if their nice guy orbiters didn't want sex, they'd be upset about this too, wondering why the guy didn't like them. This statement is really just a cry for attention.

For developing a sexual vibe, see these articles:

... and for sexual frames you can implement even before you have a sexual vibe all bolted down (which is one of the harder things to get down for most guys), see these articles:

Also bear in mind, at some point you've got to choose whether you want all girls to like you, or you want to take girls to bed and have dates, lovers, and girlfriends. Because the best way to get every girl to "like" you is to be asexual and never make a move or do anything that might potentially scare a girl off who wants you in her friend zone. Alternatively, if you want to sleep with girls and have lots of lovers and girlfriends, you need to get sexual, scare off the girls who only want you as friends, and rope in the ones who want you as something more.

Chase

Lanoa's picture

Been struggling with this one a lot. Fear, state of being unsure of the outcome resulting in no action. I was a bit skeptical on where are you going at the start of the article, but then you landed it, spot on. Really enjoyed reading through this one and revising the importance of solid process when doing things. Fantastic dreams need very real actions to become true. And those actions need a firm plan. Good piece with a clear message Chase.

L.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Glad it resonated, Lanoa. The articles that start off making people go, "What? Where's this going...?" but then wrap up in something that hits home are probably my favorite to write. They tend to carry the most thrust and impact.

Getting too focused on emotions is easy to do... they're there, they carry a LOT of weight with you, and they have their reasons for being there and carrying their weight, too. Sometimes though, you've simply got to process them out for the sake of the you of the future.

Cheers,
Chase

Friday_'s picture

Hey Chase,

Excellent article, yet again. I've been reading your insights for a few months now and I love them. I feel as if I'm truly improving myself with each article I read, and I can't thank you enough for that.

I have a bit of a problem though. I'm in high school and there's this girl I'd love to take out and get to know. Problem is, I don't get my driver's license until April. As you mentioned in your article about attraction having an expiration date, if you don't take a girl out shortly after meeting her, she'll lose interest and move on.

Do you think it would be best if I waited until I got my license, then opened to her and took her out? Or open to her sooner and have my parents drive us around? The latter seems incredibly lame to me, but I'd just like to know your opinion.

Thanks, man!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Friday,

That's a sticky one. All things being equal, I'd say don't even talk to her until you can do things freely on your own terms, but the problem with high school is you usually aren't meeting a lot of new women... which means that the more time that passes without you doing anything, the more you're going to build this girl up to unreasonable heights in your mind, and the more likely you are to stumble over your own two feet when you finally go talk to her months later. That in mind, I'd say you need to jump on things now, and figure out a way to minimize any lameness / awkwardness.

I'd probably see if I can get an older friend, sibling, cousin, etc. to drive you around if you could. If you can't, then yeah, go the parents route. Or have your folks drop you off at a mall and ask her to have her folks drop her off at a mall, and sneak off from there (and come back when it's time to go).

There are ways to handle the logistics of it if you're creative, but you want to get moving sooner rather than later to beat any unrealistic expectations, pressure, and nervousness that might start forming in your head if you wait too long.

Chase

J.B's picture

Hey Chase. I was hoping maybe u could write about ur seductions similar to a story ur telling. I find that fascinating and educating because we can get inside ur mind and see from ur perpective better as u put it in words. I think Ricardus was going to be doing this b4 he left and maybe u can do something similar. BTW, Is he coming back?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey J.B.,

I did this for years when I was still new to meeting girls, but I decided to stop writing up reports largely for privacy reasons. I did put, however, two fully fleshed-out seductions (a 30-minute pickup and a 15-minute pickup) in the appendix of the eBook, if you have a copy of that.

Ricardus is off running his English-language for non-native speakers business now, and it seems to be a hit. So, I'd say he's most likely to stick with that, and probably bid farewell to the world of dating advice and seduction. We didn't make an announcement before because we weren't absolutely certain how it'd go, but I think he's probably free from ever having to work for anyone other than himself again so long as he wants it. However, he's still manning the email / phone consultations for the time being, and we'll likely do a farewell phone coaching sales event with him before he says goodbye for good, for anyone wanting to get some consulting time in with him before he calls it a show.

Chase

Wes's picture

Hey Chase, quick question...
Above you mention the process for picking up and I couldn't help but notice that you say to move a girl first then deep diving, chase framing and sexual framing are after that. I've also noticed this in a few other posts ive been going back and reading up on.
When i go out to malls or shopping centers for daygame or even my college campus daygame, I open but i go straight into deep diving. Then try to throw in some frames, then see if I can eventually move. Is this wrong? Am I doing the wrong order of things and making it difficult for myself. Ive never actually moved a girl either( partly because how do you even do it on campus seeing as people have classes to be at, in a rush)
Oh crap, i probably sound like a victim...forgive me...it is still a habit i am trying to overcome.
But yea, Am I doing the wrong order of things? Is it really possible to get a girl to just move with you first before even deep diving?
I'm guessing the move is some kind of test to see if they're interested...

Thanks for all your work, I'm seeing results in my vibe and walk.also managed to gain some weight and muscle.

Wes

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey Wes,

I'm loathe to tell you that anything HAS to be done in a certain order... you can absolutely experiment, mix-and-match, and change things around to see what has the best effects for you. Generally speaking, I've found that moving girls soon into speaking with them gets you a lot of commitment right away, and you'll usually want to start with a little light banter before you begin deep diving.

You also generally DON'T want to deep dive in a non-relaxed setting; e.g., the two of you are standing up out on the street somewhere. It's not quite appropriate for that kind of thing - typically, you'll want to use street stops for either A) quick number closes, or B) moving girls quickly to somewhere where they're walking around together with you, engaged in light conversation and banter with you, and no deep diving until you're sitting down together somewhere. You can even skip deep diving occasionally if you meet a girl who will move and walk around with you and you just keep her moving until you get her to your place, then escalate.

Usually your process for street game is going to be different from what you'd use in other, more relaxed settings. Focus on keeping things brisker, getting girls moving with you whenever possible, and either grabbing numbers quickly and moving on, or getting girls to walk with you and rapidly advancing investment and compliance until you get them to walk to somewhere they can sit and relax with you or walk right back to your place with you.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Longtime reader, never commented, just wanted to drop a line to say how your site impacts many lives, including mine. I've never struggled too terribly hard at anything, but getting rid of "victim mentality" was one of the best things I could possibly do for myself. You're doing great work here and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Thanks for taking the time to say so, Anonymous. Great to hear on the victim mentality... that's a nasty, poisonous one that's bad simply because you don't even realize you're doing it to yourself or thinking that way when you are. Shedding it is one of those things that truly liberates you to go do what you want with your life - very good to hear you're free.

Chase

VP's picture

Hey Chase,

Been following your stuff for a couple of years now and your articles are great. In particular, this line spoke to me:

"People don't know what they want, and they don't know how to get it."

This goes beyond pickup, but I've found that I've been most motivated when I don't have a choice as to what I need to do. If I have a clear mission, I can focus all my energy on that mission and get it done. In today's world though, we are presented with an abundance of options in all aspects, from buying chips at the store to picking a career path. When it comes to deciding between options, I feel lost and confused. Do you have any advice or articles for making decisions and commitments in a world of choices?

How DO you figure out what you want? Or is this question even relevant?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey VP-

That's an extremely relevant question. It is, you might say, the great unanswered question of life.

I started writing a response to you here, but it quickly became rather verbose, so it's probably better if I simply do a post on that one. Look for that sometime soon!

Chase

38b's picture

Hey Chase,

I've been lurking on this site for quite a bit but this is the first time I've decided to comment -- mainly because this encompasses SO much.

I think this is one of your best articles not only on "pickup" (oh, hate I dislike the term -- but that's for another time), but also on how to approach challenges in *life*. I wouldn't consider myself an advanced "PUA" by any means, but I *would* consider myself a somewhat accomplished violinist, writer, and powerlifter (I'm humble with my adjectives because I'm nowhere near where I want to be with my goals, despite having achieved "success" in most people's eyes). This sentence below sums it up for me:

"True confidence is a byproduct of success."
^ This.

I'm sure you know this as well (or even better) than I do, but WAY too many people think they can confidently (ha, ha) substitute balls-to-the-wall hard work, applied intelligence, and intentions to grow with "self-belief" or "confidence".

Yes, they're important. Yes, they're significant. But to cursorily replace everything else with "confidence" is inane and, like you so concisely put it:

"confidence is GREAT. There are few better feelings than being able to strut around like the head rooster, feeling like everything you do is assured success.

What aggravates ME is the veneration of confidence as some sort of success magic pill. It isn't."

Bravo, Chase. Bravo.

Aspirant's picture

This post makes perfect sense for me, because earlier today at work I wasn't feeling very sexy or dominant at the beginning of my shift, which started an hour after I woke up. Feeling woefully unhappy, I decided to get back into my sexy man fundamentals---
This is my fourth day implementing my sexy man vibe, including chase frames and deep diving, intentionally at least. I'm a prosocial person at work so I found deep diving an easy natural talent and chase frames just as easy when it was brought to my attention. And once I applied domince to my prosocial tendencies and changed my nonverbals, voice tone and eye contact the women I work with, i saw immediate and unequivocal signs of interest.
Well i just wanted to showboat and say that all those new things I've learned off this site has given me success with women and that success has given me real confidence and that confidence gave me the motivation to get out of my funk this morning and gave me the drive to at the end of my shift get my ex chasing me and her prompting me to set up a day for a hangout, which I of course I set up with consideration and finesse. My ex left me because i was clingy and nice guyish and provided too much security and supplication. However, I'm over her mostly, she dumped 4 months ago tomorrow. But i just want to show her a good time and see where it goes from there. My goal is friendship though, our shattered relationship probably won't be worth it to fix. So I'll aim to give her a good time in my bed and move on to the next in a hopefully long line of women

Winning.

P.S. I use my powers for good. Hers and mine ;)

lucifer's picture

"A few months later, that girl became my girlfriend for the next 2 1/2 years, and was one of the most amazing women I've ever known."

Hmmm.. And where did you meet that girl?
In a club! :)

You know where I'm heading to if you recall a few comments I left on the "no club girls/no dating website girls".
True quite a few times, but still always beware on generalization.

And of course, great article!

Ryan's picture

I think what you are talking about in this article is the reality that no one sees, or wants to believe.

I would say that with certain skills, like picking up women, and also sales, the "appearance" of confidence is a piece of the pie, so to speak. It's a tool you can use. It's not the key, or the core of success. You could say that learning how to project it (or ideally genuinely having it) is just a part of the actual process you use to achieve your goal.

Thanks for writing this article. It's brought some clarification to my life, and inspired me a bit.

Unchained's picture

Chase, have you heard about the Dunning Kruger effect? I think you wrote an article about it. Anyways, do you think that this is the problem - being recklessly confident tends to instill that sort of problem? They simply don't understand how to measure competence at the subject.

It seems to me that getting good with being able to attract women is a skill like any other. There's a learning curve. I think that for most people, what you can really do is perhaps shorten the curve somewhat (ex: make people get to the top faster), but they have to execute it.

Also off topic, but I actually believe that Keynesian economics were closer to right. Keynesianism declined in the late 1970s and that's roughly about the time that the middle class in the US began its decline as well. Wages have stagnated since then save for the top 0.1%.

Anyways, interesting post. I'd have to agree that confidence is the byproduct of success, but it has to come with real knowledge. Only those who make it to the top can be justifiably confident I suppose. At that point it becomes a self-reinforcing virtuous circle.

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