Escalation Windows | Girls Chase

Escalation Windows

Just received the following email from a reader, who was kind enough to allow me to reprint here, preferring to remain anonymous. He asks:

Hey Chase,

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

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Luke's picture

Excellent advice.

M's picture

>Be prepared to persist up to ten or fifteen times if necessary
Really? I've tried to persist with going home, however not on the first meet. It made me lose all my value and girl hating me. Maybe I did something wrong..

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hey M,

Two things on this one:

  1. Of course make sure you're persisting in a very cool, calm, charismatic and persuasive way. There's a lot of salesmanship in it! If you're doing it right ("Let's get out of here and go grab a nightcap; we can chill and relax and kick back a drink") it sounds a lot more appealing than if you're not ("Come on, let's go back to my place"). This is especially important when insisting -- you'll often have to get firm as things progress ("Yes -- come! It will be fun. Yes, you know you want to come. We'll have a very nice drink and relax. Come now. Yes, come").
  2. The girls who end up "hating" you were not girls you "lost." Girls who like you either A) come with you when you ask them to, or B) are flattered and excited that you tried to make something happen with them (because that's ultimately what they want, too).

    The girls that hate you when you push are the ones who were looking for you to be a guy who could help them and support them and be their friend -- not for you to be their lover.

In other words, be cool about it, but don't stress the ones you lose -- they weren't going to be a productive use of time (at least when it comes to getting lovers and relationships) anyway. They wanted a man to dote on them and provide for them, or to be their guy pal.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Hi Chase,

Some seriously good advice on this site - in fact it's the only reason I've had a chance with a really stunning girl I like after an unfortunately long sexual hiatus.

here's one mistake I think I may have made:

- So I met a girl (who is a friend of a friend) on a night out and we flirted etc. Some really nice chemistry and she was definitely interested.

- I finally got my act together over a month later (and after reading this website) and messaged her on facebook. After the xmas holidays asked her out, she said yes and gave me her number.

- I texted her soon after in the new year to try arranging the date but she said she had piles of work (she probably did) and she would get back to me if that was ok. I said it was ok staying warm and affectionate.

- She sent me a final reply saying she would *definitely* get back to me about getting a drink etc which was really nice, with loads of smilies, positive energy and it seemed like a done deal...

Here's the thing... I DIDN'T send a reply to this last text... In retrospect something to further communicate that it was all good by me would have been a nice reply to get. Especially after sending such a nice text letting me know she liked me and assuring that she would get back about the date etc.

anyway 2 weeks later she still hasn't sent me another text about meeting up... it has also now been over 2 and a 1/2 months since I met her. Have I messed this one up??

Anonymoushelper's picture

I'm no expert so please take the following advice with a grain of salt but what I think is happening is that you didn't take any action.

What I understand is that the last text she sent you stated that she'd be down for a meetup when her schedule clears up. However, it is up to you (the man) to pursue this. She isn't going to say, "Hey! I'm ready for the taking now!" You kinda have to check up on that.

I recommend reading Chase's article on "How to text a girl" and scroll down to the section on Cold Texting. See if she's available and plan the meetup/date yourself. Also check up the article "What to do when a girl doesn't text back". Scroll down and you'll see a section "DO be nonchalant". Here, you'll find a way to recover from this cessation in contact and maybe things would work out.

I'm currently going through something somewhat similar. The girl I'm after is working everyday till college starts (in a week) and I'm debating whether or not a lunch date is worth the time to get there (I'm in Brooklyn, she's in Queens) only for a chat an hour long and then she has to get back to work. I think a dinner or something small after her work is what I'll do. Thing is, she gave me HER number at the end of the semester (I hadn't even asked for it because I had one hour of sleep) and she showed much interest throughout the semester like talking, smiling, etc. (dumbass like myself didn't care to move forward). Now, it seems she has time for her friends but not for a date with me. Not really sweating it though. I got over obsession a while ago. We'll see how it goes...

Anyways, good luck Anon. Hope my advice helps any....

Anonymous's picture

She sent you a sweet email and you didn't reply? I don't think you are really into her. And she got that.

If you were interested, you would have responded. You sound like you are purposely botching these. You might try to figure out why. Make peace with it, and lay it to rest. Then when a girl you "think you like" sends you a bubbly email, instead of saying "the deal is done" realize that is when you make your your move.

It sounds like you might need to work on becoming more secure with yourself. Because from what you said, you were content with the attention and feel goods from this girl, but not more.

Maybe unconsciously you already established you weren't interested in her. Since it took you a month to follow up on it, to begin with. The details aren't that important, but it's important you know yourself

Anonymous's picture

Maybe she was one of the girls that is harder to find these days, the type that *isn't* interested in just having sex. In which case she would run a mile as soon as she could tell that's all the guy wants.

Chris Davis's picture

Take it one step at a time. get to know her abit first and be really romantic. Sometimes take her out for a meal or go to the cinema and see where it goes from there. You never know she may ask you out instead.

Jim's picture

Hi Chase,

Here's an interesting one. Yesterday, I was passed what I now call a "self-sabotaging" escalation window...basically one that is practically impossible for the man to have met (her not knowing this), yet is put forward anyway.

I recently was chatting up one of the more beautiful women on OkCupid. We exchanged a few messages back and forth on Friday, and then while I was out later that night, she had sent me a message saying that she'd love to have a drink with me that night. At this time I wasn't even by my computer! Who would be on a Friday night?

So the next day I write her back and I let her know that I was already out at that time and couldn't possibly have known about it, but I reassure her, very nicely, that I legitimately would like to go out another time.

As soon as this message was sent, she went STRAIGHT online, so she was obviously waiting for it. But...she didn't get back to me.

How on earth does one meet an escalation window like that?! It's like she self-sabotaged herself in spite of my legitimately wanting to go out with her.

Any thoughts?

Anonymous's picture

I'm impressed. Chase has it figured out. Here is why.

I'm a woman and went on auto-reject with a guy yesterday. To other women he has it all: model looks, super tall, charismatic, great personality, etc. For the past four weeks he's been a constant presence in my face, texting me, calling me, doing little tasks I didn't ask for, gazing deeply in my eyes with a goofy smile, complimenting me, the works. We're working on a movie together and he made a point of sitting by me anytime we went anywhere. However, I dumped and friend zoned him yesterday. Why, you ask?

Men, read carefully, because here is the answer:

- I made a direct comeon inviting him into the sack and he sat like a robot and stared at me, and did not get into said sack. My immediate takeaway from this was, "Guy who looks like model does not accept offer of free sex = Gay." (And what else would be the takeaway? What else could he be? Be real. If it's male and well-groomed and turns It down, it's gay. Period. Even if it doesn't know that yet. Trust me, it will.)

- I asked him if he was interested in me. He sat like a robot and stared at me, and did not reply. At all. Dead silence. He ignored the question. After hanging around me 24/7 to the point of being a bugaboo and blowing up my phone for four weeks, this is insulting. I wrote him off for good kinda right then. Life is too short for this kind of stuff.

- He started calling himself MY BROTHER.

That was the end. I kind of reindeer smiled at him with Rankin Bass Rudolph Puppet eyes, patted him on the head, put him on a certain list and went ice on him. Last night I sent him a text saying basically Cut - That's A Wrap. I said in my most charming way "thanks for making it clear where you stand with me. PS, I feel the same way, it's better we remain just friends, and from now on let's be exactly that only friends, because that would be awesome!"

I intend to ask him to go shopping at Yankee Candle Company and Bed Bath & Beyond with me sometime this weekend just to sink it in. Perhaps while out at such a store, he'll meet someone more his speed... which is likely his own gender.

This, Model Boy's actions above, gentlemen, is the way to get Auto-Rejected and Friend Zoned. If you want to get a girl, do not do these things. Because frankly, I don't care HOW "good you look".

YOU CAN AND WILL BE FRIEND ZONED.

A word to the wise is sufficient.

felixindahouz's picture

Looks like the guy clearly friendzoned you. I mean come on, you ask him if he is interested and nothing? He isn't interested in making out with you? Maybe he wasn't interested in the first place and treated you as a text buddy. The "brother" thing is just ridiculous. Even the most shy guy in the world would have probably acted differently.

Dom's picture

wow, after reading, it all makes sense..realized 3 things:
1. why some of the girls I talked to do for awhile/took on dates just all of sudden completely ignored the shit out of me out of nowhere
2. I suck at closing, and I see why
3. combine 1 and 2, now Iam confused and pissed at myself, oh well theres tomorrow i guess

JJ's picture

Hi Chase! Great blog you've got here; I've been meaning to get a hold of a copy of your book! I have a question that I am hoping you can answer: I had a girl friendzone me because I was being too nice, and then I dropped out for a week and when I returned she was in autorejection. Where can I find some pointers or stories on breaking out of autorejection (other than not making them jealous)?

Anonymous's picture

Very eye opening article as I'm kinda slow into the dating game and think I just recently encountered auto rejection..

couldn't comprehend what went wrong as my night out with the girl seemed to go well even though I went with a kiss instead of sex. "I hesitated as the girl had already shown some fickleness in the past"

that night after she left and the next day was some intense text exchanges about how she couldn't wait to see me again and wished we had done more our first date followed by 2 days of no contact "neither of us tried to get ahold of the other" to saying there was no spark and she wasn't even interested in a friendship.

as far as the long hard road to recovering from autorejection you mention being around the girl so they will hopefully see you're not as bad as they convinced themselves. but during these encounters do you try to make casual contact with them like nothing ever happened, or just be present but not really pay them any attention?

Anonymous's picture

Men, if you are interested in a woman/girl. Do not ignore her if you are trying to get out of auto-reject.

At least if I read the situation correctly. She auto-rejected you because you maybe cut things short the first night. That is likely an excuseable offense. But then you didn't contact her for two days? Why?

Do you not really like her? Do you doubt yourself or your passion for connecting with her?

You said you hesitated initially too. I see three strikes already, if she picked up on the hesitation.

You may still have one last chance, but being in the same area as her and ignoring her is definately going to get you jerk status. Even if you are not interested, you should go up to her and say, in a genuine happy and non- needy way. Hi! It's great to see you. If you don't really want to see her again, say it like you mean it but in a casual way. And approach her when she is busy with other friends or people, and say it quickly, quietly, nudge her shoulder and gently push off quickly.

If you do mean, it wait until you can ger her undivided attention, like when she is wrapping up a conversation with someone else. Say the same thing but with slightly more vigor, and stick around to see what happens. If things go well and she smiles, or seems open.

THEN YOU MUST CLOSE. Preferably, with "what are you doing right now?" But you ask her what her favorite restaurant is? Then call her later that evening and ask her out for a night soon.

Best regards, but don't be a douche. :)

HMV's picture

I'm hooked on reading these articles, Chase, and would love to hear more. I'm trying to not let windows pass me by right now with a cute coworker (a tough one in itself) who's clearly been giving me the gaze, friendly smile and hello every time she sees me. I was convinced I was in, but didn't know how best to take advantage of the situation. Fast forward, I got her phone number and asked her if she'd like to grab a drink, albeit not very smoothly. After a couple delayed texts, shot me a message saying basically "This would be a friendly coworker drink, not a date, because I'm unavailable in that department". Cue confusion and already feeling like I missed the boat, but have no idea why or how. I'm assuming I must've taken too long to step up, but man she was giving me the gaze.

Anonymous's picture

Damn, I know that gaze!

I would suggest following up for a drink, if she is special. When out on the drink, soon after you have both settled in with your drinks, ask her if she is seeing anybody? just say it casually. she what she says. she might say, well not really, but I don't think it's a good idea to date a co-worker. In which case, I'm not sure what you should do.. But it means you have a chance and wooing her.. either lighting fast, or slowly to respect her legitimate concern, but be persistent, yet not pushy. You could say, Yea, that is a concern of mine too, but I really like you.

If she starts gushing about a serious boyfriend or girlfriend (lol), let her finish, but quickly change the topic with a joke. You can tease her later about something to establish you could be interested anyways.

That's my 2 cents. But I have my own woesssss.. being too close I lack perspective. Love this site, such great insights!!!

Anonymous's picture

The girl of my affection went cold & into auto-rejection almost instantly about 2 days ago after I missed an Escalation Window, I normally don't miss these signs but this girl is my first attempt at online dating & it's kind of hard to read her actions without seeing her face.

Luckily for me she seems to be warming back up, after 2 days of 1 word responses & myself always being the initiator of any conversations we had. I woke up to a flirty "Good Morning, !

As she continues to text me more & more, I can sense another window opening soon, this one I WILL NOT MISS. I'll win the heart & mind of this girl, then I'll show her the world.

Prehistoric's picture

Hello Chase,

I just started reading your stuff, and I have to say it is very enlightening.

So, I am in the phase of starting to become more conscious about this whole women/dating/sex/relationship thing because I feel this part of my life is completely out my control. Both when I get the girl and when I don't, I can't seem to understand what I did right or what I did wrong. What made me successful one day and unsuccessful the other.

Here's my last (negative) experience:

I meet this expat Asian girl (I live in Europe) at this language school party. I had already talked to her in the past, but very shortly. The moment she sees me she seems very happy and social. There is also a little bit of playful touching... It all seemed to go very well, when at one point she starts looking away and constantly looking at her cellphone, until she sees this other person she knows and starts talking to him.

After this happened I thought to myself: maybe I crowded her to much, I felt too needy and I gave her too much attention..

But now I read your article and it seems to suggest is that I should have actually been more bold, asked her what was she doing that night or the weekend or something like that...

In order not to make a similar mistake with the next girl, I could really use some advice:

do I push too hard or do I not push hard enough?

doesn't this escalation windows theory put us at risk of actually going too far thus losing the girl?

Tomas's picture

Hi Chase and guys,

is this thread still open? Chase, why does the escalation window close forever? Is autorejection forever? Is it that you are no more attractive or is it rather a mental issue a woman made of you? I think it's the latter, but I am keen to hear your opinion.

I once missed an escalation window. Indeed it was impossible to meet because she wanted sex and had time (and probably logistics). She was very attracted to me and the conversation and connection was fantastic. However, I told her then I had to leave after an hour and she got very frustrated and autorejected me after the date. It was very painful for me!

Half a year later, I ran into her online. I decided to make an experiment. I sent her a photo where she couldn't recognize me. I called her from another number and she didn't recognize me. She craved to meet me like the first time. Then we met. When she realized it was me, her face turned to confusion, disappointment and then anger. She almost yelled at me and didn't want to spend more then a moment together.

I asked her calmly why she behaved so. Why did she like me so much before that she wanted sex right away, why did she tell me I was exatly what she wanted... and then rejected me when I had to leave due to unexpected problem at work? She was unable to answer.
Then I asked - OK, so why did you want to meet me so much when I'm totally unattractive for you, as I can see? She seemed very confused, unable to answer.
Then I asked - OK, so does it mean you hate me for the rest of your life because you din't get sex from me? I wanted you too, but I had to leave! That confident woman wasn't even able to look into my eyes, she was only full of anger.

That's all Chase. What do you think, what psychology is behind it? Although this is not politically correct, I tell you that for me, this women's behavior is the most valid reason to move fast, get to sex as fast as possible and then decide if she's worth anything more.

Regards, Tom

Anonymous's picture

What I don't understand is if the girl is keen to go out with a particular guy but the guy hasn't asked her out, then why doesn't the girl ask the guy instead?

The girl would expect the guy to do that.

Isn't that then a double standard?

Anonymous's picture

On some online first dates I have had women ask me the question, "where I am staying at?" Where do I live?" and this is most of the time within the first 5 minutes of meeting them so I am a little miffed. Sometimes they ask later in a interation. But it is a question that comes up time and time again.

I'd say I am a beginner in seduction. But are those escalation windows? I write off a girl asking me where I live in the first 5 minutes as an escalation window, but is it an escalation window? What about later in the date her asking me where I live? I am guessing that is an escalation window. If it is, any tips on something I could say that is smooth to ask her to come home with me.

Charles's picture

There are 2 other reasons for auto-rejection!

1.Someone told her some bad stuff about you and she bought it or at least is suspicious of you not being the real deal

2.Someone hurt her real bad in her last relationship and the way you make her feel reminds her of him. So she shuts off by association.

The first one you may be able to turn around by having a talk and explainig the situation in a way that wipes your "file" clean. Ultimately she'll have to take a decision herself.

As for reason 2, I'm not too sure how to go about it, yet I'm sure there must be a freaking way!

Lastly, I am almost certain you can turn things around however bad they night be, if you follow Chace's advices, but leave things for a while. Take a long break. But when you return, proceed firm. Never hesitate. Make it seem as a new start. Same guy, different game!

Jude's picture

I can't seem to have a girl sleep with me and I just 20, taken couple of girls out and the seem to like me but only as a friend, and if I try flirting with them as to having sex they say am a sex freak.... Please need some advice.... Thanks.

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