Advanced Technique Advanced Frame Control with Charismatic People (2012)

Chase · Nov 14, 2012

Originally posted in the first Girls Chase Forum on Friday, 25 May 2012

I'm around more strong-willed, charismatic people now that I'm in entrepreneurship than I've ever been in my life, and most of them are using all kinds of skillful frame control techniques on me to get what they want out of me. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't. Regardless, I'm evolving fast and learning all kinds of things I haven't seen before that I can adapt to use myself and learn how to combat when I encounter it being used on me in the future.

Some of the things I've seen:

Being told you're being "defensive" if you question someone telling you to do something or if you question being questioned; this puts you in a catch-22 situation - you don't want to defend your defensiveness, because then you'll seem even more defensive, but then you're stuck doing exactly what the person wants you to do. It's similar for being called "sensitive." Both of these are excellent at taking someone off guard and getting them to "fall in." Solution, I've found, is to do this: reply back with, "The way you're interacting with me is causing me to go on the defensive. Obviously, that's not good and that's not healthy, so let's look at that." I'll that turn it into an educational expose on showing them how being domineering, etc. can raise hackles in others, and a better way to communicate. Similarly, using this yourself stops people in their tracks cold; if someone's not giving you the answers you want, you can say to them, "Do you always get defensive?" They're then almost obliged to start listening to you and opening up to you.
Questioning someone's commitment. This one's tough stuff - it's another catch-22 type of situation. Even if you WEREN'T feeling very committed before, you instantly feel like you need to prove yourself. How you get out of it: "Actually, I've been working more on this than you have; it might not seem like it, but as far as I can tell I'm the more committed party." Now they're forced to prove themselves. How to use it: in almost any interaction, you can use this to snap people to attention. Girl you've just met not paying much attention? "Hey, you seem cool, but I'm not really sure how committed you are to this conversation." Boom, if she's even the least bit interested in either you or in saving face, she's now forced to give you her undivided attention.
Being accused of the other person's flaws. This one's a real doozy and threw me for a loop for a while. I was working with someone who would constantly accuse me of having the flaws that he himself had. He'd say things like, "It seems like you have trouble getting into other people's heads," and, "It seems like you only see things from your perspective," and I'd be stunned; I ALWAYS try to see things from other people's perspectives... DON'T I? I'd say to myself, or, I thought I was GREAT at understanding what others are feeling; I'm an EMPATH for Christ's sake! What it did continually was open the door for that person to just plow me with his point of view, and get me to see things almost entirely from his perspective and ignore my own altogether... all the while preventing me from seeing that, in fact, he wasn't seeing things from anyone else's perspective and was unable to put himself in anyone else's headspace. Solution? Outright refusal: "Actually, I'm quite good at seeing things from someone else's perspective." How to use this? Again, this one's straightforward: any time you want someone to see things your way, tell them it seems like they can only see things THEIR way; or any other time you want someone to do something, tell them it only seems like they can do the opposite.

Anyway, those are some of my more mind-twisting discoveries at the hands of people more skilled in certain areas of getting people to do what they want than I am. Powerful lessons though... use them only for good, please

Aside: use these very sparingly, and make sure you rebuild good emotions after getting your way. Otherwise, you risk ego depletion and buyer's remorse; see here for more in-depth on this: https://www.girlschase.com/content/ego-d ... men-around

Chase

stringer bell · Jan 31, 2013

Phew, brilliant Chase.

Nuncle · Mar 11, 2013

Here are some I have fallen prey to in the past:

*Stating a case and then firmly and decisively ending with "and you can't argue with that, Nuncle" sometimes even wagging a finger to emphasise the point. Unless I'm very on guard my mind will often accept this and its only later that I realise that I could, in fact, have argued with it.

*Commanding me (subtly or otherwise) to do something that I of course was going to do anyway as its a part of my day-to-day job. I am then left with the choice of seeming to follow their instructions or mumble "I was going to". Or can try and counter it with a sarcastic "Yes! Thank you Sophie!" but you have to be high energy to do this and anyway often they will disappear from the scene before you get the chance.

*Doing a very convincing impression of outrage/hurt/surprise/embarassment when you call them out on something. You have to identify the sort of person who is likely to do this in advance and then just ignore it when they do.

I must say I cannot take the same equable view of such tactics that Chase does. They piss me off big time, and that can indeed be a useful weapon in countering them. I can't really understand the mind-set of people like that. Who goes out of their way to tell someone to do something that everyone knows they were going to do anyway? And then disappear before that person can respond? Seems like a lot of effort to me.

Chase · Apr 6, 2013

Nuncle-

Those are some annoying ones too, yeah.

I was discussing with someone today the fact that all communication, really, is learned, including how you deal with people like this. It's tempting to say, "Well screw them, I just won't be around them," but then you rob yourself of the lesson of learning how to identify and automatically respond to people doing these sorts of things to you. If you just avoid them, they'll trip you up again the next time you run into someone doing them. But if you sit there and make yourself learn how to counter them and condition yourself to do so, you are forever protected from anyone using these against you, for the rest of your life.

For someone saying, "And you can't argue with that!" you want to get into the habit of saying, "Of course I can! You can argue with damn near anything," right off the bat, even if you don't know what you'll say next. Trust that you can figure out an argument to make, even if it's just an argument for the sake of showing them you can still make an argument.

For a subtle command, resist the urge to throw it back at them (then you just get into command wars, where you're each trying to one-up each other in commanding one another); instead, call them out on it:

Sophie: Make sure you run the numbers on the Prim account, Nuncle.

Nuncle: Sophie, wait. Why do you do that?

Sophie: What do you mean?

Nuncle: I mean, make some command about me doing something like I'm already going to do. It's like you're jockeying for social status over me or something. Creates a weird vibe in the office.

Sophie: Uh, no - I was just reminding you in case you forgot.

Nuncle: Well, it's okay to remind people of things, but you normally want to avoid reminding them of things they already know to do. e.g., if I started reminding you to make sure boss gets our quarter end reports every 3 months, you'd probably find it rather irksome, right? Like, "Geez, why is Nuncle telling me to do what I'm already doing?"

Sophie: Um, well, if you thought I was going to forget, I guess you should remind me.

Nuncle: Great. So why don't you just remind me of everything I have to do and I'll just remind you of everything you have to do.

Sophie: Uh...

Nuncle: I'm kidding. It's just kind of weird - that's the point I was trying to make. Anyway, it's fine; you can head back to your cubicle now. Kidding! I'll talk to you later.

Basically, you just make it such an embarrassing, unpleasant experience for her commanding you that she doesn't really want to do it again (she probably thought she was subtlely exerting power over you, but when you swat it down it's like getting caught with her hand in the cookie jar. Calling it "kind of weird" makes her sound socially stunted, as well).

Doing the impression of outrage - yeah, you've got to know and expect that. But once you do, you can just do it back, or act false dramatic.

Nuncle: ... and then I [twisted punchline to some sick joke].

Katie: [outraged face] OH my god, HOW can you say that about little kittens? It's SICK!

Nuncle: [surprised face] Oh no, you're RIGHT! I never realized what a bad person I was before! Nooooooo.....! [laughs]

Katie: [disgusted, storms off]

Chase

Nuncle · Apr 7, 2013

Hi Chase

Yes your right, once you see these things as learning opportunities (quite powerful learning opportunities) you begin to relish them, especially when you pull down a victory. Personally, though,it took me a long time to even start playing the game. Because I don't have that sort of mindset myself it took me years to convince myself that, say, when someone is pretending to be angry with you they aren't actually angry at all just seeking some sort of advantage (at least an advantage in their eyes).
.

trashKENNUT · Nov 20, 2013

BUMP!

Witcher · Apr 2, 2015

Chase said:
Originally posted in the first Girls Chase Forum on Friday, 25 May 2012

Being told you're being "defensive" if you question someone telling you to do something or if you question being questioned; this puts you in a catch-22 situation - you don't want to defend your defensiveness, because then you'll seem even more defensive, but then you're stuck doing exactly what the person wants you to do. It's similar for being called "sensitive." Both of these are excellent at taking someone off guard and getting them to "fall in." Solution, I've found, is to do this: reply back with, "The way you're interacting with me is causing me to go on the defensive. Obviously, that's not good and that's not healthy, so let's look at that." I'll that turn it into an educational expose on showing them how being domineering, etc. can raise hackles in others, and a better way to communicate. Similarly, using this yourself stops people in their tracks cold; if someone's not giving you the answers you want, you can say to them, "Do you always get defensive?" They're then almost obliged to start listening to you and opening up to you.

Beign in social entrpenreuneurship from soem months too, i came acroos as somethjing similar with poeple in general.
As you Chase, i always try to see the things from the perspective of other , in any matter espetially in team work.
But i'am also a man of opinion, and when a person have a different opinion than me, and if i'm sure about mine by legitemate reasons , like experience , knowledge etc.. I will only change the mine (nad hapily do it) if the person give me the proofs that they are right.
But someties i came a acroos wiht some perons like my former team leader, who because i didi'nt get conveced wiht her disgreement of one of my method of doing some work tellein me "You are too rigid". And fairly iam not, yes i'am opinionated but i change my perspectives if ther is proof.

But as i realise now it's also a way of "controlling me".

I see this a lot in termes of the communciation stuff with people:
1)When your opinion is challenged, you have to accept the point of the others.
2)You also have to uderstand to point of the other a see their perspectuive and not challenge them because it's not diploamtic etc...

Ghost202 · Jun 11, 2019

Personally, none of this matters if you don’t take other people’s commentary on board. Self possession is pretty much the
Answer for anyone trying to frame control u. The less authority u give others the better. There doesn’t have to be any
Reasoning or excuses behind your refusal to give them any importance. The fact that you simply don’t feel like it is good
enough. You are the final authority in every situation that you are in, regardless of what’s at stake. Think about that.

Advanced Technique Advanced Frame Control with Charismatic People (2012)

Chase

Chieftan

stringer bell

Space Monkey

Nuncle

Tool-Bearing Hominid

Chase

Chieftan

Nuncle

Tool-Bearing Hominid

trashKENNUT

Cro-Magnon Man

Witcher

Tool-Bearing Hominid

Ghost202

Rookie