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A few weeks back, in the comments section of “Real Empiricists Test”, a reader asked the following question regarding the gulf between mainstream dating advice and what’s taught on this site:
“Is there an article on this, or maybe someone can answer this outright. But why is it that mainstream dating advice is so contrary to the dating advice given on this site ? Why is it that there is almost no agreement ?”
The short answer, of course, is that what we focus on here is entirely techniques and strategies that:
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Achieve efficient, effective, reproducible results
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Are tested out and balanced against alternatives and discarded if found ineffective
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Are coming from people who’ve devoted a large chunk of time specifically to this field
... whereas most mainstream dating advice is coming from regular folk with limited experience dating and even less time spent studying and analyzing dating and sex and relationships and social dynamics both in the field and with other likeminded folk.
But the fact of that matter is, it goes a lot deeper than this. There’s more to this clash of ideologies than simply field experience vs. non, and it mainly has to do with who’s giving the advice, and what their objectives are in giving it.
Comments
Showing Intent
Anon-
I would recommend always telegraphing your interest when walking up - women know, and if you're framing it as "just being social", it looks like you are afraid of showing your interest, which is a major attraction buzz kill for a girl. See these articles on this:
Chase
Breast Implants ( . ) ( . )
Hey Chase,
Chase what’s the deal with implants? Younger guys into seduction probably don’t run into this till sleeping with women past a certain age group (oldest girl I’ve slept with is 26; she had no implants, though really nice D cups, and haven’t really seen any younger girls with implants I think).
This is sort of an educate me, “give me the talk” type of question I guess then haha.
Why don’t younger girls have them? And around what age do girls get them and why (is it because of insecurity or can a girl be not necessarily insecure but just feel “oh I have small tits and have always had small tits growing up but its ok ill just get implants when I’m older” and then get them)?
Is there a connection between how conservative or promiscuous a woman is and whether she’ll get implants or not? Or perhaps there’s an issue of getting pressured (or a “gift” I suppose) from a husband or boyfriend?
With conservative vs. promiscuous I’ve observed that the older women I’ve seen and talked to during the day at the gym often have implants and are trophy wives who don’t work and just look good and stuff. The older women at the night, on the other hand, I’ve seen none with implants and they’re more conservative, intelligent, hardcore about their training (train bodybuilding style; much harder than the women during the day), have good careers (vs. no careers) and really just generally into working hard for their own interest and the pursuit of staying healthy.
One last thing I’ve seen growing up is that some friends’ moms have had implants (have all been really hot coincidentally) and it’s odd because they’re a mom and seem normal, matronly and on-the-surface conservative but still hot and the implants seem to add to that (maybe they were promiscuous before settling down)? Just something I’ve observed that I’m not quite sure how ties in.
To summarize, I’m basically really fascinated about the topic and just know very little about it from experience so far (have met a few ladies with implants but never anyone under 30).
Interested in learning/hearing what you have to say.
-Gem
Re: Breast Implants ( . ) ( . )
Gem-
I’ll see women in their early 20s with implants occasionally, but usually only if they’re working in an area that involves the flesh - exotic dancer, porn actress, etc. Here’s it’s mostly an upgrade to help them beat out the competition. Most non-adult industry women in their early to mid-twenties don’t need them, because if they want to stand out more all they have to do is show a little skin and the boys start salivating.
Once they start hitting upper twenties and especially mid-thirties, some women get them because they want to recapture the attention of their youths… plus, now they finally have the incomes to afford them (or, they’ve just divorced their husbands, are back on the market, and want to spend hubby’s money in a way that will send a big “screw you” to him while netting them some fresh meat to boot).
I don’t think I’ve ever met a woman with breast implants I’d remotely consider conservative, so seems pretty safe saying that if she’s got ‘em, she’s pretty liberal-minded (and no stranger to the party and hook up scenes). If you ever venture into a cougar bar, for instance, where it’s plastic surgery-ed up women in their 40s and 50s, you will find TONS of implants bouncing up and down around you… this is the demographic that gets them (older women with money to burn who need to go under the knife to compete with the younger women who get all the male attention so much more effortlessly).
Interesting observation about older women at the gym by day vs. at night. Makes sense… the question of course is, “What’s she doing at the gym during the day?” Obviously not working or taking care of the kids. Which means she probably lives a life of leisure, and one of the things women tend to do when they have lots of free time on their hands is look for ways to maximize the male attention they get (and, often, take new lovers).
Hard to say about your friends’ moms… but my bet would be, unless they’re divorced, your friends’ dads may not be the only ones parking their cars in those garages, though the wives probably know what to do to keep up appearances and downplay suspicion as much as possible.
Chase
Advice to Newbies
Chase -
I was reading the comments and realized you didnt reach to the last one yet so i have a few more questions.
As always, forget the fact that im in high school. Anything you advice me to do is always well appreciated based on what you know.
That said, i have come to really enjoy reading girlschase but one thing that has been on my mind is why a lot of things is so serious. This stroke when i read the article on 12 Traits All Boring, Unsexy Nice Guys Have in Common.
In that article, you state this:
"Because boring, unsexy nice guys believe that women find themselves victims at the hands of most men, they’re also very sensitive to the notion that any given woman may feel victimized by them.
Which means, of course, that they need to act as gentle, friendly, soft, and unintimidating as possible around women so as to not scare them off.
This includes things like:
• Defusing tension the moment it crops up with things like telling lots of jokes or saying they “didn’t mean it" after making a witty or flirty comment
• Laughing and smiling a lot, which defuse tension and, in larger quantities, indicate nervousness or submission (making them not a threat to women)
• Moving slowly and going out of their way to do “just friends" stuff with women to not come across as wanting sex and remove any feelings from women of needing to “decide" about them one way or another
• Doing things that communicate hoping for something long-term with women, like sending them pictures (something you’ll never bother doing if all you want is a fling) or doing them favors, to prevent women thinking they just want to sleep with them / encourage women to “think about them" more
• Going out of their way to give women other forms of investment andsupplication to communicate that they aren’t like those bad men who aren’t going to stick around
• Opting for friendly / chummy actions, like hugging women, greeting them excitedly, high-fiving them, letting women gripe to them about bad things in their lives and vent to them emotionally, and others, to show that they aren’t “just about sex" like all those other bad men, and instead care about women as friends, too
If a sexy man can be thought of as a sharpened blade that cuts through the apathy of women’s lives and introduces excitement, adventure, and lust, these actions by boring, unsexy men designed to make themselves extra soft, friendly, and gentle with women are all things that help to dull the blade and make it hard or impossible to cut through the fog of normalness that surrounds her day-to-day life."
What i dont get is why hugging girls is bad? why making girls laugh is bad? you also state about smiling too much or helping a girl too much. I agree that yes helping a girl too much is bad but what is wrong with smiling? how do us readers tell that we are doing too much or too little of something. Next thing, isnt hugging a part of touch? I think its a bit cold and harsh to not hug a girl if she is hugging you vice versa. Hugging is a form of touch that is friendly and breaks the familiarity ground and makes physical escalation easier in the future in my experience. What would you do if a girl tried to hug you? i would think its good to employ push-pull here. what do you think?
Next topic: social circle
I hate the idea of practising my social skills around people i already know to some extent in a large social circle. People see me and treat me the same way no matter what i do. How do i turn this around? Should i practise with my social circle folks?
On here, chase, you talk about things like:
-Cutting contact with girls after two months of not getting her as a newbie
-Move faster
What happens everytime is that i cut contact with a girl and she never gets in contact with me again. What gives? Do you recommend that as a begineer it being better to chase a girl and get the reference points instead of cutting contact? What if i talk to a girl first all the time but she always passes me and doesnt even say hello, Should i continue to talk to her just for reference points? It makes me feel bad when i always have to say hi to a girl before she ever does. what do i do in these situations? what things do you recommend a begineer do just to get the reference points such as chasing, initiating contact with a girl after she was rude to you et cetera ? Could you do an article on the excptions you would give to newbie's just for the reference points even though in the future they will dial that down in the futuer asthey gain more experience? example: being funny overly funny to develop a sense of humor or chasing a girl a little longer than usual just to see how far you can push it e.t.c I think you get the point. Would you advice this strategy just for guys to get the ball rolling?
Thank you
Troy
Your own Business or retired at 30?
I was just reading articles and I was reading the older man younger woman article, and im like wtf have a business or retire at 33 or 34? How the hell is that possible? I know for some it is, but for the majority they'll he working until their 50 the youngest. Im just so shocked because im close to 30 and I have no idea what the future holds, but I don't see this at this young of an age.
I understand it. I understand young girls would love that, but I feel a girl that's 20-25 would be against sleeping with a 30 year old man that isn't in that position of life. Maybe im wrong.
My questions are,
1.what if you're not lucky enough to start a business?
2.And what would a person be retiring from at 33 to 34 years old? Only things I can think of is sports and being in the entertainment industry. What jobs are you talking about?
3. If im close to 30 and have no college degree, no business ideas, never started a business or even thought about one, and I don't have a job I can quit by 33 or 34, and working my way up in a company will only make me the manager. What can one do and start to work on to be in these positions and to get these younger girls?
Thanks
going against yourself
Chase, I've just come back from a date and I feel frustrated with myself! I've been reading your articles for the last couple of months and I'm still fighting with the same mistakes. I'm always the last one to finish a talk/call/text/meeting. I don't know what is there about me that makes me feel comfortable when the other party finishes first.
I just had this cool meeting with a very nice woman today and at the beginning she told me she'd be baking some food for Easter as she had parents coming over.
It was our first date and we talked for 2 hours and then the silence came and she looked at her watch and said "sorry but I have to go". My intuition tells me it's a very bad sign and I know I should be the one to wrap up first!
Now I don't feel like I'm in a position of inviting her for another date because that'd look like I'm chasing and waiting for her to give me any of her free time again, am I right?
Finishing First
Steven-
That's pretty common when you're been raised to be a polite person - even when you're pressed for time, you may have difficulty cutting things off short.
I'd recommend reading this article, and beginning to practice being the first to end things: "How to Be an Asshole – and Become Adored by Women."
"Sorry, but I have to go," is a bad way to end a date, agreed... though you have nothing to lose by trying again (except perhaps some confidence / mojo if it doesn't go well, which it probably won't... but you can get that back again pretty quickly by meeting new girls). It's worth experimenting around to see if you can find anything to recover with - even in the ugliest looking situations, sometimes you can pull off a surprise turnaround if you take the shot regardless.
Chase
About that date you mentioned
"2 hours..." I think your biggest mistake here was to not create tension / escalate fast enough.
How to have consistent on nights?/Fundamentals in the club
What's up Chase, is there anyway I can have consistent on nights? You know how people say they have nights where every girl wants them, then some nights girls don't want a thing to do with him. I have nights and days like this all of the time, and I want to have more good nights where all the chicks love me. How do I never have a off night again?
How do you work on your fundamentals in the club? and how do you use your fundamentals in the club? There's a lot of competition from these drunk guys with liquid courage cock blocking me.
My last question is, how do I live up to my fundamentals? I have people always compliment me on my looks,body, and style all the time. They say "I know you got all the girls chasing you" and "you have to get the best looking girl in here because of how nice you dress."
How do I live up to all the compliments I get? It's a shame because I really don't feel I'm the best thing since slice bread. Its like they expect me to get girls with ease and its really not easy for me. How do I live up to the compliments people give me on my fundamentals?
Thank you
Living Up to Your Image
Von-
You'll never get consistent emotional "on"s - but you CAN bring up your baseline so high that you outperform even the guys who are "on":
Your fundamentals are the same wherever you are. They're your passive value. Keep them tight, and you're in good shape.
Living up to the image you give others is all part of the game... once you've got that image, you've got opportunities flying at you a lot more often. Then comes the fun part - seizing those opportunities, failing, seizing more of them, failing, and doing so again and again until you start succeeding at becoming the man you seem to be, and eventually surpass even those expectations.
A friend of Tupac's once remarked that it seemed like Tupac rapped about it first, and then became it second. Doing a thing takes time and practice - just don't waste the extra opportunities a good image nets you, and you will get there.
Chase
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