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Chase Amante's picture


Well, just don't date any hardcore feminists.

'Soft' feminists are fine, since most people don't actually have rigidly defined values, and are more or less going with the crowd. Once a woman is with you, assuming you're an even reasonably strong dude, and she is not some hardcore radfem, she is going to bend herself to conform with your views. More on that here: Is It Ever Okay to Date a Feminist?

How do you convince a feminist that men aren't evil even when she throws rape and murder statistics in your face? What do you say to that? How do you show her the goodness in men?

Why would you want to? What would be the possible utility?

I've had very few real-life conversations where I've run into this. Where I have, I've just played dumb, and acted like it was the first time I was hearing it, and also that it was not about anything connected to me:

HER: Men are just vile! They rape, and they kill, and they strangle puppies, and they won't take you seriously when you tell them you have an advanced degree in Intersectional Aboriginal Lesbian Gender Studies!

YOU: Wow, it sounds like men are pretty bad news. I'd avoid them if I was you.

HER: I wish I could! But we live in a patriarchy, where men have all the powerful positions! You can't get away from them!

YOU: Aren't there any all-women businesses, or communes run by women? Maybe a country you could move to where women run the show? I heard in Sweden something like 60% of lawmakers are women, and the men are all just super feminist allies.

HER: I don't know but I don't want to run away. I feel like we have to stay here and fight.

YOU: That's noble of you. I know if it was me I'd just be like "Screw this, I'm not staying where I'm unwanted. Peace out."

After the handful of conversations I've had like this, the woman is always like "He gets it. Chase gets it. Guys need to be more like Chase." And they tell this to their male feminist allies who claim to agree with all their positions, which I always find rather absurd.

My personal stance is unless we are close in some way, she's not going to listen to me. So there's really not a need for me to try to 'convince her' of anything.

Also, if she's going around proselytizing, she is not really someone I need to spend my time debating, since she is a foot soldier. The only people I am going to debate are a.) people who are close to me / people I care about and have influence with, b.) people who come into my house (if someone wants to debate me on GC, okay, maybe, if the discussion is worthwhile), c.) if I'm put on the spot in public and there's an audience, then maybe, or d.) if it's a person with actual influence in a movement, that is someone worth debating. I'm not going to debate a low level foot soldier who's just repeating her marching orders though. I suggest you don't either.

If you do have cause to debate a feminist (like, say you have a feminist FWB, and decide to have it out with her for shits and giggles), best thing is just some good old fashioned Socratic questioning:

HER: Men are such diabolical creatures!

YOU: Why do you say that?

HER: They rape and blah blah blah

YOU: That's terrible. Do women do anything bad, or it's just all men?

HER: Well, women do some bad stuff too, but not as bad as men.

YOU: How come we don't just get rid of men, you think?

HER: Well, it's because of patriarchy... it's because of physical strength differences... etc.

YOU: How about with guns and all now? I would think women could rise up against men and just start shooting them if they won't listen, right? Women got women's suffrage passed and they weren't even able to vote to do that. They just leaned on men until men did what they wanted. How come women can't do that with other stuff?

HER: Well we can't just start shooting men... blah blah

Basically I am going to accept her premise that okay, maybe men are terrible, so what should we do about it? And see what she can come up with.

I know what she'll come up with... it'll just be something about how men should change their behavior and give more stuff to women and do more stuff for women. Which is easy to deal with:

HER: Men need to be better allies and blah blah give money to women blah blah do stuff for women

YOU: I think that's great. Do you think there's a limit to this? Like if we make all men tithe an extra 10% of their paycheck to women, and we force men to step aside for women in any career a woman wants, what if we do that and women still aren't at parity? Should we increase the tithe to 20%? Or just ban men from leadership roles? Is there a point we decide it isn't working, or we just keep going forever?

HER: Um, well I think maybe we could increase it a bit more but blah blah

YOU: Oh okay. I see.

By the time you're done with all this she should feel so unconfident about her solutions for this 'problem' that she is going to think a lot harder about it the next time she feels like getting up in arms on it.

And maybe she will actually have a real conversation with you next time.

Like, instead of trying to lecture you about what evil subhumans men are, she might ask you if you think XYZ is actually a problem or not.

Then you can actually converse. Rather than have to listen to her chicksplain ;)