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Chase Amante's picture


I'm curious, how would you react when someone defys you?

In general, this way:

What If She Says No?

Although yeah, somewhat different in situations where there's an established hierarchy. That article's aimed more at no-ties scenarios, where if she's unhappy with your response, she can just walk, and never talk to you again.

In other situations, all sorts of considerations. What is he defying you over? How urgent is the situation? Is it a case where the person can be reasoned with? Is there a reason you'd need to make an example out of this person?

Like, if you're with a small child and he says "No, I will NOT eat the tomato!" you can ask him why he won't eat. You can offer him dessert after the meal if he eats it. You can pretend it's an airplane and fly it into his mouth.

On the other hand, if he refuses to listen out near the road then tries to run into the road, you can't stand there and reason with him; you just have to grab him and yank him back.

If it's a girlfriend defying you, again, totally depends. If it's unimportnat, maybe you let it go. Maybe you let it go with prejudice -- you're going to be in a bad mood until she makes it up to you. Maybe you escalate it into a full-on fight. Maybe you walk out. Greatly depends.

If it's a someone who works for you or is in a class of yours, you put him on notice, and if he doesn't shape up, you boot him out.

With the website, my attitude has always been "Keep it civil and thoughtful, and you can say whatever you want. However as soon as it gets petty/vicious/personal, you're gone." I haven't allowed comments like that since the one on the baiting article in 2011. I had a think about whether we should allow vitriol for reasons of free speech, or ban it. I decided 'ban'. On the boards, we ban guys if they spit vitriol and won't knock it off (usually we'll give a warning first), or if they annoy the rest of the boards too much. I don't like dogma, and guys are welcome to question whatever they want; we've had guys on there critique me and disagree with me over everything, for instance, and that's fine. However, if all a guy does is critique the site/material/community and not attempt to become a part of the community or test/use the material, at some point we're going to ban him too -- you just can't have a cohesive community when it's littered by concern trolls.

In adulthood, we naturally stop this (we can always visit local bars for a nostalgic reminiscence). It is clear in some situations, this is wrong (ex. domestic violence). But is there ever a right moment for this? Any personal experience?

The only situation I can think of that MIGHT be (if not, let me know) is if a kid boy took your belonging and you ask them to give it back, but they ignore you and shield the item away from you. Regardless of how much you ask (technically this is begging, which I guess wouldn't be the approach for adult interactions but kids are ok?), so you reach out and grab it out of their hands.

Sure. That's happened to me. You tell the kid to return the book... if you say it with the right tone of voice and good eye contact, and he's a well-mannered kid, he'll probably listen. But sometimes kids want to test you.

In that case what I've done is put my hand on the book (a Kindle, in my case), and slowly tug it away from him while giving him the bored look. He'll laugh, because it's funny, but he'll also typically get the message (and if he tries to take it again after that, you just respond in a firm way: "No!").

Physical force with women depends on the culture. It used to be fine to use it with women in the United States. Now it is not. I'm personally not a super physical/touchy guy (touch was one of the least intuitive things for me to learn early on in game), so that's fine with me. If I found myself in a culture where the women expected their men to put them in-line physically every now and again, it'd take some adapting on my end. I had a girlfriend once who told me she wished sometimes when she caused trouble that instead of just yelling at her I would beat her. Normal girl, professional career, educated. She thought she was that way because her father spanked her often as a little girl. I slapped her on the face a few times in bed (she liked it), but never in a fight. Just was not a line I was comfortable to cross... even though she'd said she wanted it.

So... I mean, I can think of various kinds of situations. I had a girlfriend walking out the door after a conflict, all sad, probably wasn't going to see her again... and I walked over, physically stopped her from leaving, spun her around, and led her back in. She melted, made out with me, we went to bed, conflict ended. I knew her well enough at that point to know that kind of move would likely work with her; some other girlfriends I've had I'm sure had I done something similar they would've gone ballistic.

It just really depends.

My general advice would be "If you aren't 100%, and there are laws against physical force, don't use physical force. Even if it's something most women might otherwise like."

The West in general is on a hair trigger with regard to men doing anything remotely perceivable as physically controlling these days. It's a historically bizarre time where men are expected to use essentially zero physical force at all with women, but it is the reality of our current society; we need to mind that reality.