How to be a Hard Target, Pt. I: Dating | Girls Chase

How to be a Hard Target, Pt. I: Dating

hard target dating
In Part I of the series, we look at the hard target dater: the man who can’t be suckered by friend-seekers, flirts, diggers, or climbers.

In the excellent self-defense book Dead or Alive: The Choice is Yours, Geoff Thompson uses the term ‘hard target’ to describe someone who’s a difficult mark for attackers. If you’ve read my article on how to be street smart, you know what I’m talking about (and if you liked that article, you should probably grab Geoff’s book). Essentially, you can turn yourself into someone the bad people just don’t want to mess with.

This article kicks off a three-part series on becoming a hard target not for assault or mugging, but in your romantic and social life. How do you not get suckered by those who seek to sucker?

In each installment of the series, I’ll address a specific social arena where men get duped. The areas we’ll examine are:

  1. Dating: when you first meet a girl, get to know her, and take her out on dates (this article)

  2. Relationships: once you’re already together with a girl, in a romantic relationship with her (next article)

  3. Social Life: non-romantic encounters in the social arena: friends, acquaintances, people with connections (third article)

We’ll take a look at why people will try to bilk you, what kinds of people will do this, and why they try things with some people but not others. And finally, we’ll talk about becoming a hard target these people leave alone, and can’t crack if they try.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

GET CHASE’S MASTERY PACKAGE

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Comments

blogster's picture

Again, you have a great knack of breaking down the underlying dynamics. When you think about it, it really reflects rules of business and negotiation.

I've just moved to a new job; it's technical/intellectual in nature. We have an all-male team and they are nerdy, beta male types. Our admin assistant, a mid-20s backpacker, is a reasonably attractive girl. Until I came, she would act the mother hen with these guys, using them as an ear for her personal problems and her social life, like quasi-girlfriends; when I watch her interact with them, there is always an air of slight superiority from her, despite them being same age or older.

She assumed she could use me as a friend type like the others. She's definitely not my type and from experience, I keep work and personal separate. First, she came around to my desk whining about needing inspiration for the gym; I moved the conversation to talking about myself subtly. She then whined about the fact I didn't help her to the rest of the team. Later, she came around complaining about sore feet; I instantly put my headphones on and let the other team members deal with it, listening to them offer solutions and sympathy (gross). To confirm my thoughts, one time we were sitting next to each other in a meeting, I gently brushed my leg against hers and she quickly recoiled. Just as I thought.

At the gym, her and her friends (who I can see in the mirror reflections) hover near me and try to get me to acknowledge them, but I refuse, being engrossed in my workout.

All of this has left her visibly baffled, as I am polite, friendly and professional, but stick to the task at hand. When you know what to look for, it makes things easier.

Mickey's picture

Blogster:

Good boy...way to keep her at arm's length!!!

Jimbo's picture

Yeah she's looking either for validation (acknowledge I'm hot and desirable even though you'll probably never get me!) or for girlfriendy friendship. Both of which you don't want (unless you genuine want to be her sexless pal, which I doubt).

Nice going ;)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Blogster-

Usually good not to get enmeshed with girls like this.

I will say when she's continually putting herself out there, that gives you ample room to chase frame things, whether for fun or profit. e.g.:

Her: My feet are sore.

You: I had an ex-girlfriend who always had sore feet. We found the solution was for me to take my shirt off and lie on the bed, and she would stand on my back and give me a foot massage with her feet. Felt great for me, and her sore feet would be gone.

Her: Are you saying I should give you a massage with my feet?

You: I'm not saying anything, I'm just telling you how my ex-girlfriend handled it. But if you want to get rid of those sore feet, I might think about helping you out. You'd have to give me a really good massage though. There's nothing worse than a half-assed massage.

Thing is you should really only do things like that with her one-on-one. If she's pitching you stuff in front of people it's for an audience. And she'll react in whatever way she thinks will get the biggest rise out of the audience. So when there's an audience, that's when you just put the headphones on and ignore her.

The recoiling when you touch her isn't necessarily a total negative sign. If she wasn't expecting it / it was incongruent with the mood (e.g., everything was very business-like, not terribly seductive) it can be startling. Also if there are a lot of other people there and she isn't focused on you - her mind needs time to process who the touch came from, and in the meantime she'll shrink back. There are also some girls who are jumpy about touch; girls who play games or are attention whores seem to be this way more often than the average.

Chase

Jimbo's picture

Chase, you say to never provide too much fun (with which I agree), but at the same time have to be at least somewhat fun -- the worst thing you can be to a woman open to a lay is boring.

So my question is, how can you identify the right middle ground between showing you have a sense of fun and ability to provide excitement, and providing too much of it (for free)?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jimbo-

Good question. It's going to differ somewhat from girl to girl.

There are two dimensions to focus on with this: one is investment, the other is attainability.

On investment, think of anything you do that makes things fun as you investing in the courtship. In any courtship, you want her to feel that her investment is somewhat (but not too much) more than yours is. So if you give her tons and tons of fun, but she does not provide reciprocal value, it's too much. On the other hand, if she's really investing a lot and contributing a lot, you can make it a really fun interaction.

On attainability, at certain points she is going to want you to get serious and "be real" with her. If you don't tone down the fun here, you'll ruin attainability. This is mostly going to happen at transition points / escalation windows. When you encounter these, tone things down and focus on leading her where she needs you to lead her.

If you look at your own past interactions, you'll probably notice a theme of the most fun you've had with girls being on outings where the girl was contributing lots and lots of investment, and you also were tuned into her escalation windows and hit them as soon as they popped up. She was really into it, and in turn you were able to give her a lot of fun. Her investment levels really open up how much fun you can have with her; if she isn't investing and you try and force some fun in (which is what a lot of beginning guys do and where they go overboard, making things "too fun"), the investment balance becomes obvious to both of you and it won't work.

Chase

Jimbo's picture

It's clearer now. Thanks Chase!

SZ's picture

What would you do platonic as a beginner?

The only thing I can think of is listening to her problems and having fun with her.

Beginner or not, I'm not paying for dates or meeting her friends.

So do I just listen to her problems more and have fun with her more? Or is there more?

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

Well, platonic value you I do not suggest you abandon as a beginner includes items like:

  • Being friendly and disarming
  • Letting her take the lead and suggest things / introduce you to people
  • Accepting her invites to various places, or inviting her to them
  • Rolling her into your social circle / networks
  • Picking her brain on all kinds of non-romantic topics
  • Joking around with her about silly, non-romantic stuff
  • Having an open mind to her suggestions or proposals

These are things most guys abandon as they get more skilled with women. They become a lot more single-minded with girls and quit wasting time doing things that don't move them closer to sex or a relationship. But when you're starting out, these things can provide valuable doors to more social experience and increasing variability in your social/romantic life.

Chase

James H's picture

Hey Chase,

Thanks for your comment earlier regarding my situation of dating that Chinese girl who was using Tinder. I just found out me confronting her about Tinder Social usage made her bolder and she's now full on using Tinder and messaging and talking with guys on there and even mentioning she's single to other guys (I know this because a friend of mine helped me by matching with her in the area).

Given all this, she hasn't said anything yet to me the past 4 days. I feel cheated (even though I completely understand why) since I described to her why I didn't think dating her would work in the beginning yet she kept begging and so I relented -- and now she completely doesn't even message me.

I just had a simple question for you. She may or may not ever respond back (I think she will once she comes back from vacation since life here is less exciting and there's a lot of built-up tension) -- I know you suggested in one of your articles to not just disappear and let the girl wonder (not sure if it applies in this case). At the same time, is there anything I can write to sort of make it seem like she missed out (I know it sounds childish) on me or any sort of "break-up" text that can at least help me regain some face and closure? Would you recommend messaging her right away or waiting until she messages me?

Thanks Chase -- I'm highly looking forward to buying your video series btw!

James H's picture

And just to add, we never had a completely formal "let's be completely exclusive" talk. It was all implied by me confronting her in the past about Tinder usage not being ok and her implying to me she didn't want to me to see any other girls. In this case, would you just delete her from facebook and just never respond? I'm just very confused what to do at this point to fully break things off and how and if I should respond and if I should wait for her to respond first. Thanks Chase!

James H's picture

Sorry for all these updates Chase, but she messaged be back today saying "I miss you" and then "But we need to talk when we get back :)". What do you think she has in store for me?

Should I disappear on her given this completely or do I now need to have a "break up" text?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

James-

Check out our Relationships Board. We've got a ton of awesome posters, and plenty of guys who can help you manage the whole way through your first time dealing with a situation like this:

Relationships Board

Some great folks on there :)

Chase

Bill Rodman's picture

Hey Chase, I saw the above poster mention about some girl he's been dating being on Tinder and what not and vacationing to south america. That made me think about my own girlfriend. She's been to south america, but with another girl and two guys. in this case, is it ok? And also regarding what the guy said above, if you confront a girl about cheating and use sneaky evidence, will that make her want to cheat more and why?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Bill-

With cheating, you're never looking at 100% certainty. That means there's no way to know for sure, either way, unless you have evidence of something happening (or a confession to it) or you were with her the whole time and know nothing did happen. So all you can do is look at situations that make something more likely.

When girls are traveling to sexy vacation spots, it's usually for sexy times. When girls travel abroad in couples (e.g., 2 guys, 2 girls), it's usually for sexy times. When girls travel to sexy vacation spots, in couples, it's usually beaucoup sexy times.

I would expect that your manner of confrontation makes a difference in whether she decides she wants to cut back on the cheating and be more (or totally) exclusive to you, or whether she feels emboldened to cheat more. I don't think I'd use 'sneaky evidence' to confront if I wanted a girl to stick around, since it looks like you were wounded and weak and sneaking / sniffing around; I'd just say, "Look, I'm pretty sure you were taking some cock when you were down there in South America. Whatever, it was early in the relationship, I'm sure Joe was a real stud. But if this thing's going to continue, there's only one cock going in that pussy from now on. I don't want STDs, I don't want to pay for another man's kid, and I don't want some guy's jizz running down my balls when I try to have sex with my girlfriend. I don't want some hussy running around making me look like an idiot in front of my social circle, either. If it happens again this relationship is toast. Savvy?"

That said, I have never confronted a girl for the purpose of keeping her. Only time I confronted one in a situation like this, many years ago, was to say, "Hey, look, here's what I found. I understand why you did it, and I was definitely a dick before, and I even told you to go find someone else and then took you back. But the fact that you lied and said you were single when I started back up with you and then hid this crap from me means we've crossed a line that can't be uncrossed. So you and me are done." Even in that case, I confronted the girl with 'sneaky' evidence and she flipped out and attacked me for invading her privacy, etc. To which I just laughed and said well, you won't have to worry about it now, you can go be with your other dudes who won't do any of that stuff. But I suspect if you tried to keep a girl on with something like this it'd cause problems. The girl in my case ended up roping me in for a few more months, against my better judgment, and I continually heard about the sneaky evidence thing, and it was obvious it made me look weak. Had I legitimately wanted to stay with her, I never would've mentioned this and instead would've just said I was "pretty certain" without letting on I knew for sure.

Chase

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