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Commenting
on “What to Do When a Girl Won’t Go Home with
You”, Blogster
asks about what women’s responsibilities are in the mating game and
where a man must “draw the line” when it comes to trying to make a girl
his:
“Do take your point on this one. However, at what point does all the game advice for men cross into the territory of a woman’s jurisdiction?
With each piece of advice about how to handle situations and tighten your game, it sees more and more of the woman’s responsibility being transferred over to men.
One of the admirable traits of men generally is that we are self-motivated and proactive and take charge. We look for our own mistakes and correct. However I feel the manosphere and valuable dating advice sources such as girlschase makes the mistake of swinging too far with the attitude of ‘if it didn’t go well, you the man did something wrong, or should of done something better’. Accountability is good, assuming complete agency is ridiculous and unrealistic, as it assumes the man has the capacity to control all relevant circumstances affecting a pickup and that by improving and fine tuning technique results will come.
The implications for this are obvious – women are just automatons and have no individual preference, attraction will occur reasonably successfully if you master the right techniques smoothly and ultimately, that women have no agency as adults.
It also plays into and reinforces current societies frame regarding relationships – that the man must do all the work and its the man’s fault if something goes wrong or the seduction doesn’t occur.
Increasingly also I see double standards in advice being doled out. For example, a recent post spoke about how to deal with judgement. It says its crucial not to judge women, yet women are by far the more judgemental sex and constantly do so on a broader range of factors.
A man is expected to skilfully disarm a woman’s judgements, but a woman is not expected too because otherwise she ‘won’t open up’. Does it occur to you that maybe men don’t open up because of female judgement and thus lose out? Yet the onus seems always on the man. Put it this way, if your friend was constantly dodging responsibility and being unnecessarily judgemental would you pander to him?
A man is expected to overcome his approach anxiety by himself. Is there any advice anywhere that says about how women should ‘help the man through his approach anxiety’? Of course not, yet there is plenty of expectation that a man should smooth and ease the women in the last moments before seduction.
In this instance, I feel it pushes the ‘responsibility balance’ of game even further towards the man. Soon all the woman will have to do is show up!”
This comment no doubt reflects a lot of men’s frustrations over the travails of mating – I’ve heard them the world over, in any number of different cultures, and if you read back through history you can read of men from all ages complaining of the same things.
So what are women’s
responsibilities in dating and mating? Do they serve as just passive
recipients of
men’s advances? And if at first you don’t succeed – how many times
should you really try and try
again?
Comments
Anti-simp/Thug mentality
I didn't know you were black, dave. And it seems to me we grew up seeing the same shit, so I can relate to you a lot with what you said. I would do the same thing and girls would love me, when I told them I wouldn't pay for shit. It's a little different now with white girls and other races. The fact that you're black opens my eyes to see that black men can be successful with this advice with all women. Im not a thug or a drug dealer, but I pretty much treat girls the same as they do. Can you give me more tips from what you witnessed from drug dealers, thugs, and what you do to get women? I'm in a different area and it's so fucking hard to get play from women in my area, they love simps and I'm very far from one. Chase and you guys have been my only mentors with women. I never had anyone teach me game at all and I've been trying and failing a lot and im tired of it. Help a brother out. I appreciate it.
Thanks man.
pt2
And can you tell me what they did to have these girls spoil them and take care of them. What did they say and do? I'd like to know all of their game and does this work for all races of women. I want to know their exact game because I don't want to be to much of an ass going overboard with the you not getting shit from me.
Thanks dave.
response to last post; genetic traits
Chase thanks for the thoughts,
You gave a fairly accurate guess; I wanna leave school and make money from my side businesses full time (while learning programming and building my other skills to do big company/startup stuff 3 to 5 years down the road). I’d figured that appeasing my parents probably wouldn’t work without some sort of struggle (it’s sort of like trying to politely get a vegan to eat a prime rib haha) but I understand it’s up to me to make my destiny and that if my challenges happen to be extremely hard at times, it’s because I need to overcome them to achieve greater things, simple as that.
The strategy you suggested is amusingly pretty similar to what I ended up doing regarding this situation. It was sort of messed up what I did (I’m pretty dispassionate/detached like you and many of the guys on this site; so I looked at it sort of a scientific experiment empirical “hmm let’s see what happens” standpoint) but I didn’t care much and was curious to see what would happen.
So, I failed a couple of classes intentionally to see what the worst case scenario would be. My parents raged and it was bad but after the heat died down, they still wanted to help and life went on and they forgot about it to some large degree.
It was a learning experience; I figure the same will happen with any future worst case scenarios. On what to do next I got some good advice from an unexpected “out of the blue” source (wanted to ask a little about it too).
I have an uncle who lives in Bangladesh who I haven’t seen in 10 years. My uncle was an international chess champion at a young age (roughly 20) and has played with international and grandmasters all over the world and had his own chess club (last time I saw him I was 9 years old; he helped me with my chess game a lot and I went on to be undefeated district chess champ for a few years after that).
Outside of chess I knew very little about my uncle (just that he did some sort of business work).
Well, recently my uncle came to the U.S. randomly on business and I met him again.
We hung out a lot and turned out to be very incredibly alike, it was uncanny (everyone else in my family was commenting at it). My uncle is involved in all kinds of different businesses and has traveled the world and lives a completely different unconventional life different from the typical Bangladeshi guy his age. My uncle came to the US first in Los Angeles to visit us, then to go to Vegas to a wind energy convention (and later introduce it to the country of Bangladesh); then he’s going to the east coast to sell night vision goggles to the freakin’ army!
I could really go on and on about all I learned from him during his visit (but won’t for brevity’s sake); the other week was just my uncle and I staying up long hours and talking… I’ve seen mentors I’ve had stuff in common with but this was different, talking with my uncle was more like talking with a future me in a way.
My uncle talked about how he wants to build his legacy and do good things for his people and other people in the world; I asked him about why he didn’t leave Bangladesh and here a nurture difference between us became clear as we talked more. My uncle stays in Bangladesh because he has a maternal attachment to it (deriving from being raised in poverty in Bangladesh vs. my lack of matriarchal influence growing up in middle class America) and he can do more for the country by living there (also my grandma lives in Bangladesh and he can be near her and see her off and on by living there).
My uncle told me that even though he travels all over the world and has had experiences with business and girls and friends all over, he sort of has a loyalty to his mother country and to quote him “your mom and motherland will always be a part of you (despite the bad parts of it or whatnot etc.)”.
I see where he comes from with this statement and how (my guess is) the matriarchal societal upbringing makes him different in that way... those feelings are absent in me (or dormant at best) and I don’t really feel that same way that he does.
However, I thought that he did have a point: whatever does happen (and deduced from my experiment too) I’ll still have a place at home and part of me (the little boy in me perhaps) will always have some lingering attachment to it.
Very briefly, I wanted to ask if you know to what degree a man will be like his uncle (from the mother’s side)? It’s an old wives’ tale in Bangladesh that men will be like their maternal uncles (and it’s certainly proven true in me, friends of mine and some mentors of mine).
I searched about this but could not find much info.
And I’ve read very little about genetics, if you have any reading material on genetics or places for me to start, I’d love to read!
I see the site growing and girlschase and the business blooming Chase so thanks for still taking the time to give a thorough and sincere reply.
-Gem
addiction
Chase help! Im addicted to my smartphone and the internet and I carry it out everywhere and check things every 5 min like emails etc. It controls me now and I cant kick it...
Baby Steps
Hey Anonim,
Biggest thing you're going to want to do just gradually ween yourself off your device. Don't quit cold turkey, but gradually keep track of how often you pull your phone out. Make a tally mark every time you pull your phone off. You'll be so surprised at the number, and then you can gradually resist taking out your phone. Find other interests and engage with people more. You miss a lot of opportunities to talk to women while you have your head in your phone. Don't let the chance pass you by to interact with a really awesome girl. Find other hobbies, take up a new sport you want to build a array of interests. Maybe tell yourself you won't take your phone out until you get home. You have to train your mind with little tricks to resist temptation.
Another user also requested an article on ditching bad habits. Hopefully the article will be up soon.
Take care,
Just Dave
Family
Chase -
When i took some time out to look at my problems i see a lot of it stemming from family. For some reason or the other i dont know why my family never got along and it's maybe the number 1 reason why i cant relate, relax, and maintain relationships with people.
As a baby from what my mom told me, when most of my relatives and my immediate family lived in the same house or nearby in constant contact, there was ( and still is to this day a family rivalry. it's not always that people dont like me. people just feel they are losing value by being around me. its the same with almost my entire family.
As a little boy, i remember my uncles would see me just starting to walk and step right over my head like a piece of door mat; how my father's brothers who lived together would be in war on a daily basis. fighting for what? they fought over four businesses enterprises and two houses that all belong to my grandmother ( who is still living ) , and a lot of other little things.
Now i dont want to go into too many unnecessary details so here is a summary. as my mom told me, about my fathers history. when my father was a boy with his 4 brothers, he and one of his brothers was close but the both of them were the scapegoats, 2 of the other brothers was the golden children, 1 to my grandfather and the other to grandmother. now i guess you can imagine what kind of relationship they had? One with constant battle. my father and his close brother was not allowed in my grandfathers room while the golden children were free to do as they like. Fights in the house, stolen possessions, hurtful remarks were the daily routine and in the end the golden children won and the scapegoat, my father and his brother lost. chase, you spoke about the drop of a mans testeserone when a man keeps losing so you can imagine what happened there. my father, as a teen lost his self-esteem but still managed to have a group of friends, but even still he said he was often a lonely guy even when surrounded by friends. in fact, my father came near to suicide when his family ostracized him but he was set free when he heard his father died after getting sick in the hospital. But to this day, my mom tells me, he still suffered from low self - esteem and manages to make friends with only the beta males. In fact, my father is a regular church goer and he doesnt keep company with any of the pastors, deacons or member who is up the social ladder, only the devorced beta males. The good thing about my father though is that he is sociable with all the church ladies, children and men. My entire family has a social problem.
Ok ive gone from a summary now... back to the main point.
So my family is in a constant war. My parents are married, but my mom's family hates my fathers family, vice versa.
There is no unity, lack of good communication, and rejection. ive recently learnt that a lot of my family members suffer from suicidal thoughts, depression, anxiety, low self - esteem, social awkwardness, verbal and physical abuse. and guess what? I think i got a heavy dose of anxiety and depression at birth.
As a young boy i grew up seeing my parents actually fight with wooden spoons, chairs and broom sticks at each other. I saw my uncles and aunts ( aunts on mothers side ) verbally abuse each other, sometimes the police got involved. i saw my grandmother refuse to help my pregnant mother with 2 other babies even to make a cup of tea. My family members hate each other. There is so much division and hurt feelings.
About seven years ago most of the family moved into their own home and my immediate family moved away too... but they are still fighting for the scraps that you can tell whoever gets it still wont make use of it, its all just one big ego game. As i just barely talked about in a previous comment. my parents still fight, my siblings still fight, heck we all still fight each other. I dont fight my parents though i should say. thats just plain disrespectful but we get in a lot of heated arguments. me and my mother not so much but my father and i is a battle field. i just feel so bad and angry just seeing him. Ive got my reasons and it all is the same pattern as how he grew up. i am the scapegoat in the family. i have four siblings, me being the oldest and least respected. Now anyone might argue that its just normal that the younger ones get more attention than the older kids but this is different. or maybe someone might say that my attitude towards them is just wrong. or maybe someone might argue that i am over exaggerating, but i am not. in the past ( 2 or so years ago ) maybe my attitude towards them stinked but ive changed now. I dont spend MUCH TIME around my family. I spend my time alone in my room doing little to nothing meanwhile they argue and fight each other. I limit my exposure to just the daily "good morning" , "thank you", e.t.c... but they still argue and fight. My brothers and sisters are in constant arguments with each other, parents stepping in to argue with them even more and beat the crap out of them. i can count on one hand how many times we can all be home and there is silence for 5 minutes. no fighting, no arguments e.t.c..
Its is clear that we have spent 95% of our time together practising how to ostracize, fight, and hurt each other.
Next thing, i realize that family is one you cant trade with, family is free, but friends come with a cost and you could lose them if you dont provide some value. I really want to get along with my family. I really want all my family to stop fighting each other over scraps and just bond instead. ive begun to seek therapy help but even that wont make my family change. ive tried to overcome the bitterness for family.
I even realize that one day my girlfriend will want to meet my family. i hate to even be talking about my family online but i can only come talk the truth.
How do i one day get my family to be united?
I have a brother that goes to the same high school as myself. we live in the same room and he annoys the f**k out of me. we just avoid talking to each other and we always get into fights. we dont talk at school or anything. persons know that we are brothers and they always ask me how come we are like strangers. The reason why i dont like him is because my father treats me like the scapegoat and him like the golden child. Me, my mom, and sisters get along ok but my brothers we are like enemies. I have the feeling you are going to refer me to the article on bitterness and i already read it. my brother, at school is extremely anti-social and bitter. in fact, he gets into a fight with at least one girl every month. he is bitter, judgmenal, depressing, annoying and has a "i know everything attitude". My brother claims to be a christian and says that all girls are just wicked bitches *shiver*. he claims that from reading the bible that all persons who are not christians are all satans workshop. Most persons dont behave close to him. some of my male friends say to me that whenever they see him at school and call to him in a friendly manner he just looks at them and walks away. sometimes he might ask them if they are holy and if they say no, he just walks off.
My point is that while im working on making a social life for myself, my brother is making enemies with no shame. Persons are wondering why we are so distant. He tells his peers at school all sorts of lies and nastiness on me which lowers my value. people wonder if i am a fake.
The truth is that whenever i try something new it always feels forced so persons pick up on that vibe.
How do i not let my brothers actions interfere with my school life ( and in general) ?
How do i not be bitter to my family?
How to get the family to unite again?
How to deal with being treated as a scapegoat and how to change it when dealing with extremely stubborn people?
How do i introduce my girlfriend to my horrible family and not be embarassed ( or have her wonder what's wrong with me?
I really want my family to get along. Part of the work is on me to do too. Friends might leave but family is always there no matter what. My family has a long history of suicidal, depressing, and low social status persons. I dont want it to affect my growth. I want comfort in my family. Even if i dont have friends to hang out with i want a loving and happy, highly successful family to support me as i support them. Even if i go out to approach girls and improve my social skills, i still want a family to comfort me when i go through rejection and failure. Chase, i must say that you are a very blessed man with a great family and i hope to see more from you in the future and one i'll day join the uper ranks.
Cheers,
Troy
Taking Care of Yourself
Hey Troy,
I'll direct this comment to Chase because I feel like it's something that would require his personal attention. As of right now what I want to point out is that you can't force to get along. It's something that mature people have to want for themselves and the good of their children. Unfortunately, people have no idea how favoritism effects their children growing up. I had my own family issues with not feeling loved by my mom and resenting my older brother. However, I had to learn that my brother wasn't my enemy. I learned that my brother truly did love me and cared deeply about me. I grew up wanted my family to be close as well, I didn't want my family to fight. I remember actually telling my family how it hurt me to see them fight. They actually listened. What I'm saying is that communication is very key.
You can't hold things in. You can never truly be happy if you're harboring a grudge against someone. It just eats away at your inner being. It's very rough, I would communicate with your brother and try and find common ground. I would also talk to him about the things he does that bother you. Some people think they're being funny, but don't know how much it actually hurts other people. If you tell your brother in a non judgmental way, he'll probably listen. Tell him, "I feel that or I think that." Don't say "You do this..." , don't blame him. Take responsibility for how you feel. It will make your life so much easier in the long run. As far as your actual family, it takes time. Talk to individual members, I'm sure others feel the same way. Many times people get tired of the fighting and are looking for peace.
Good luck,
Just Dave
How to find extra bit of time.. ?
Hey chase.. !
I need some advice regarding this. I have been trying to be a good conversationalist for some time now..! But, When you talk to someone, do you think what you are going to say.. ? I have read somewhere here, you read what she wants at that moment and react to according to that..
How do you do that in a conversation.. ? How do you find that extra bit of time to think, " what she needs, what you need to tell.."...? Can you do it very fast..or do you use that "Pregnant Pause" method for it.. ?
But, if you use that always, it seems to be bit too much I guess..!
Is it something you get from your experience, Is it something you can gain from experience..?
When a girl asks a question.. ?
Normally, Our minds automatically give the answer. What I have seen with my relationships experience is ,it also can lead you to lot of dramas sometimes.. ! Because sometimes, we say things that we don't want to tell actually.. after saying them, then we disappoint, "Why the hell I told that.. ?" It had happened to me lot..
After sometime, We feel that there are lot of ways to handle that same issue with different angles.. Sometimes, you can find lot of answers, solutions for the same problem if you give yourself sometime..!
I don't know whether I can explain this properly.. But what I feel is, we are in so much rush in our minds.. !
When someone ask you a question.. ? How do you handle those.. ?
How do you find that extra bit of time to give the correct answer.. !
In conversation, how do you find that extra bit of time.. ?
Are there any tips.. or It is something I want to learn prom just practice..? Thank you...!
Article Links
Hey Peacer,
Here is a couple great article links Chase wrote about.
http://www.girlschase.com/content/conversationalist
http://www.girlschase.com/content/conversation-example
http://www.girlschase.com/content/conversational-technique-tips-and-tidbits
Take care,
Just Dave
Any tips for Improving my English.. ?
Hi Chase.. !
My native language is not English. I want to improve my English speaking. Sometimes, it is really tough to deal with some situation because of my English speaking.
How can I improve it.. ?
Do I need really good grammar first, (But to be honest, I have some kinda good grammar knowledge. ) ?
Please give me some tips..!
How to improve my English Speaking..!
Thank you..!
Native Tounges
Hey Anon,
The biggest tips for learning English or any language for that matter is to find a Native speaker. You have to shake off your fear and just talk to people. Take some classes if money is not an issue. Watch the news, listen to music, or watch movies. You need to surround yourself with the language you're trying to hear. You need to patient with yourself too, don't try to learn too many things at once. Find groups that meet up for learning English too. Find someone better than you and work with them.
Good luck,
Just Dave
"and I don’t think most women want to listen to a cad like me"
"And I don’t think most women want to listen to a cad like me anyway",
You mistakenly think that only men read your website?
I only wish you would write for us women too because you get my gender more than female dating coaches do.
I'm in my 30's and have only been with one man (married my high school sweetheart). I would love guidance too. I'd buy every book you write if the books were written for a heterosexual woman.
Chase, would you at least think about it? Please
Original Purpose
Hey Le Petit,
Chase has me helping out with comments. I would say as much as we appreciate hearing from our female readers from time to time, Chase has a hard enough time teaching men. The initial goal of the website is to help men become better with women. If Chase suddenly shifted his focus to women, he would completely lose his target audience. As a result chase would have lost his original purpose. I will say you are more than welcome to make a post on our forums on a specific question. Women have done this in the past. Girlschase.com/boards
Take care,
Just Dave
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