Do you need to do things different when talking to a hot girl?
One of the most ridiculous things I see in the comments section of this website sometimes is this:
“This is stupid. It only works on average looking girls... it would NEVER work on a hot girl / a beautiful girl / a real 10.”
No qualification is given to the argument, or the experience level of the argument-maker.
There's no evidence to back the statement up.
There's no alternative solution offered.
It's just a random, unqualified wave-of-the-hand dismissal, hanging there in space, pooh-poohing 2,000+ words of case-making with what amounts to the esteemed argument of "Nope - you're wrong, I'm right, no proof necessary, I just know it! Case closed."
I see it on all kinds of articles. Everything from how to
flirt with women, to how to hold a conversation with a girl,
to how to handle logistics.
It's indiscriminate... to believe these commenters is to believe that
beautiful women live lives of celibacy, never interacting with those
base creatures called "men," immune as they are to the charms of "men."
But I understand where it comes from.
To the average man, hot and beautiful women really ARE like strange creatures from another world.
Mr. Regular Guy never interacts with them.
He never gets to know them.
To them, he does not exist, and to him, they exist merely as dreams... fantasies.
Is it really no different when you talk to a hot girl?
Or could it be there's something I'm not telling you?
When I was young, I used to play a lot of video games. Sometimes, when I'd encountered a tough spot, I would read up on other people's strategies on how to get past it.
There'd always be some intricate series of maneuvers you needed to execute just right. You had to get it perfect... or else 20 minutes of playing would be flushed down the toilet and you'd have to start all over again from scratch.
But I was never a finesse kind of guy. My preferred way of winning was to just run right up to the opponent and bludgeon him with the largest object available.
So how'd I win these tough fights if I sucked at finesse?
Simple... I'd just go practice somewhere else until my character was so tough that I could just run up to the opponent and bludgeon him with the largest object available until I won.
What I'd discovered was something I think of as the Law of Levels: whatever strategy works for you at lower levels, it'll work for you at higher levels too provided YOU are high level enough.
The Level Law and Sexy Women
Imagine a moderately attractive man walks into a bar, plants himself near the most gorgeous woman there, and simply says, "Hi." No exceptionally sexy body language or fashion; no really sexy voice. Just "hi."
Imagine his reception. Nothing spectacular, right?
Now imagine Brad Pitt walks into a bar, plants himself near the most gorgeous woman there, and simply says, "Hi."
But did you know that when Brad Pitt first moved to Los Angeles in 1986, he couldn't get girls? That was back when he was a limousine-driving college dropout with cystic acne scars all over his face.
These days it's different (the celebrity and the money no doubt
help, as does all the preselection that comes along
with being a romantic lead in movies). He leveled himself up, in this
case via movie stardom (but there are plenty of other, albeit perhaps
not as over-the-top destiny-altering, avenues to leveling yourself up
too), and changed his results.
Change your level, and you change what you can get away with.
Obviously, you're not going to go become a movie star just to meet girls (but if you do become one, you have to invite me to your celeb bashes up in Hollywood). But I wanted to use an extreme example to paint the picture here - level up YOU, and you level up what you can get away with with beautiful, sexy, in-demand women.
Value and Attainability
The less of a baseline of attraction you have - the less time you've spent working so far on upgrading your fundamentals - the more "game" you need to get girls.
And especially the more game you'll need when you talk to a hot girl.
But the more your fundamentals go up - the more you:
- Dress well
- Have a sexy walk
- Have great posture
- Have a sexy voice and voice tone
- Employ attractive facial expressions
- Have a great haircut and facial hair style
- Observe the Law of Least Effort and sprezzatura
- Understand basic social rules and comport yourself appropriately
- Are a talented conversationalist and great at building connections
- Handle transitions and logistics and escalation well and never
... the higher the level you are...
... the less you need or even can use game.
Why's it work differently for low
level versus high level men when it comes to "game?"
It works something like this:
Imagine you're playing a sport or a video game or in any kind of competitive endeavor against an inferior opponent. Now let's say this inferior opponent manages to pull out a mélange of tricks and techniques that allow him to overcome you and win. You look at that and say, "Wow - tricky little bugger!" and he now has your respect.
Conversely, imagine you're playing a sport or a video game or any kind of competitive endeavor against a superior opponent. Now let's say this superior opponent also employs a bunch of tricks and techniques to try and defeat you. Your thought process during this is going to be, "Oh, this is ridiculous. Is he making fun of me? Clearly all he's got to do is just pound the ball into the net and he's won. He's toying with me, that's it. He's doing this with me for no reason, and he's just an insensitive dick. Screw this guy."
You go into auto-rejection.
On the other hand, imagine he abandons all the gimmicks and just pounds the ball in the net against you, his overmatched opponent. You won't feel toyed with; you'll just look at him and say, "There's a guy who's just jaw-droppingly good."
With women, it's every bit the same.
When you talk to a hot girl, if you're leagues below her in terms of attractiveness as a mate, yes, sure - you'd better be able to escape from a straight jacket in a tank full of mako sharks and be adept at juggling screaming mountain lion cubs while the mother puma looks on, if you hope to stand a chance at even possibly, conceivably winning this girl's heart.
This website ain't geared at teaching you how to juggle lion cubs though.
It's geared at turning you into Brad Pitt... post-Thelma and Louise.
Without you having to carve
your way to the top of the Hollywood scene.
So It IS Different with Hot Girls!
... after all, you need game to get them sometimes.
Well yes, that's TRUE... depending on your level, of course.
The more attractive the woman, the pickier she becomes:
“The evolutonary psychologists recruited a rotating team of male and female interviewers who paired up and evaluated more than two hundred married participants in the Midwest. Each subject was judged for physical attractiveness and assessed in three separate sessions for the factors they valued and insisted on in choosing a mate. The prettiest women had the highest standards — they wanted and expected their partners to be masculine, fit, physically attractive, loving, educated, a few years older than themselves, and desirous of home and children, with a high income potential. Surprising to the researchers there was only one quality beautiful women did not insist on more than plainer women did: intelligence.”
And, the more attractive the woman, the fewer casual partners she takes.
That means, the higher you go in looks and other forms of female attractiveness, the smaller the pool becomes, and the more reserved and cautious and conservative the girls themselves become.
The competition is also increasingly more numerous, and fiercer, until you reach the absolute top. The most beautiful women tend to have a lot of men too intimidated to talk to them, and then your only competition are the ultra smooth guys who have their fundamentals bolted down tight, the really good-looking guys who also have some basic process down and understand logistics and physical escalation, and the really creepy guys who don't realize they don't stand a chance in hell with this girl but are going to gun hard for her anyway.
But, well, so let's say you're not Brad Pitt yet, and maybe you're even doubting at this point you could ever be Brad Pitt.
How do you talk to a hot girl when you're not at the top of the pile just yet?
When I first started reading pickup artist stuff in 2005, I felt like I was reading all those old guides on how to beat the tough boss from my video game playing heyday:
- "Perform the opener from a 90 degree angle!"
- "Throw a neg-hit before the 2-minute mark and calibrate for the HB level!"
- "Deploy group theory to neutralize the obstacles and avoid a cockblock!"
- "Isolate the target after a round of DHVs and a compliance test to ensure success!"
There may be people out there for whom this works, but it left my head spinning.
I'd rather just go talk to the girl, have her like me, then take her out of there and sleep with her. Isn't that easier / more fun / less nerdy?
A lot of the early PUA material seems to have been designed for average guys to shortcut their way to beautiful women.
I won't name names, but many of the pioneers of this stuff never did end up getting all that many women who were all that hot.
Why? Because finesse doesn't work all that well.
You can finesse it... sometimes. But the more astute the other party you're trying to finesse, the less likely you are to be able to talk your way up the chain.
Finesse your way onto the local school board, even if you're not all that qualified? Okay, you can probably pull that one off.
Finesse your way into the governorship of your state or province? A lot less likely.
As noted above, the more beautiful a girl becomes, the fewer lovers she will take, and the pickier she is about those lovers.
In other words, the more beautiful she is, the harder she is to finesse.
There are no shortcuts to being a billionaire or a superstar musician or novelist or athlete or politician. And there are no shortcuts to getting the cream of the crop in women, either.
The higher level the kind of girl you want is, the higher the level you must be too.
How "Hot" is "Hot?"
As noted in the "Playing with Looks" section of "How Much Do Looks Matter for Romantic Success?," there is a lot of wiggle room in defining what "hot" is.
Much of the time, "hot" means great hair, clothes, bodies, and facial expressions... all things very much in your control.
Further, what's "hot" for one individual may not be for the next. Your "10" may be my "6," and you "6" may be someone else's "10." There's also the consideration of the relativeness of hotness... take the hottest girl in your classroom or office and compare her to the other women there, and she's gorgeous. Take her out of there and throw her into the midst of a congregation of car show models though, and suddenly you won't even pay any attention to her, caught up as you are with all the other women present.
Because it's so relative, the best
way to examine "hotness" is by looking at it's relativeness to the
If she's beautiful but surrounded with other beautiful women regularly, or in an environment where beauty is not much recognized or paid attention to, she'll behave as if she isn't all that hot.
If she's not really all that attractive, but she's the only woman available in a sea full of horny men, she'll behave like an absolute diva (as frequently happens with ugly girls at the end of the night in a nightclub once all the prettier girls have left, or ugly girls in the Navy at the end of a stint at sea, where they've transformed from undesired at the start of the stint to hounded by men left and right by the end of it).
There's one other thing that determines her relative "rating" though, and it's more powerful even that what she's accustomed to, or her environment:
How she stacks up against you.
How to Talk to a "Hot" Girl
Always be upgrading yourself. Always be becoming more attractive. This only makes a modicum of difference in the short term, but over the long term it's the biggest, most powerful thing you can do.
The more attractive you become in all ways, the easier EVERYTHING gets for you with women, and the more the Law of Levels swings in your favor: because most people do not continually level themselves up, you keep getting higher and higher level relative to everybody else... including formerly "hot" girls.
I've never been intimidated by attractive women, but certainly as I've raised my own attractiveness my standards have raised. When on occasion I see pictures of women I used to pursue as girlfriends (and not get) from many years back, I can't help thinking to myself, "What was I thinking?" These desired girls from the past wouldn't meet the cut for me looks-wise for the same role in my life today I used to pursue them for back then.
But let's say you aren't quite there yet and you need to juggle a few lion cubs to get her to like you. What can you do RIGHT NOW to talk to a hot girl and have it go over well?
Act calm and casual. A man who's more attractive and experienced than she is doesn't act like she's a bit deal... you shouldn't either. She's just a girl, remember... and girls are silly and cute (e.g., not scary).
Don't try to impress too hard. Many people when encountering others whom they consider to be above them in the social hierarchy launch into endless gabbing in the hope of saying something impressive enough to show themselves valuable. An effect to the opposite occurs, however; unless your conversation is honed and well-directed and you know exactly where you're taking it, it's obvious to anyone who's regularly having people try to impress her (and a pretty girl has a fair number of men regularly try to impress her) what you're doing... so don't do it.
Talk about her, not you. This goes hand-in-hand with the last. It's a common enough recommendation on this site, but if she perceives you as higher social status than herself, you can get away with talking about yourself more. The more fragile your perceived status, however, the less you can afford this.
Get early investment from her. The more and the sooner, the better. If you're significantly naturally higher status than her, you can sit around and stare at her and demand nothing of her and yet she'll still be ready to move with you and accompany you home the moment you invite her to. If you're NOT though, you must start getting her following your lead from the outset - and quickly raise it as you go. Simple things like having her move over to make room for you, adjusting her position, or having her turn more to face you (at your command) will get her following you early on and change how she sees you.
Get her to impress you. This one's probably the most significant of all five of these points. The more she feels like she's trying to impress you, the more likely she is to try and become attracted to you. Make sure you're rewarding her appropriately as she does, of course - the cognitive dissonance that kicks in if she feels like she's trying to impress someone she'd normally rate as "lower level" than her will send her quickly to auto-rejection as soon as she starts feeling a value imbalance if she's doing a lot of impressing and you're not rewarding and relating properly.
These are all "quick fix" improvements to your game that you can use immediately when you talk to a "hot" girl without having to wait until you can get better fashion or train yourself to walk better and sit better and carry yourself better (although even those don't take that much time to at least get started on).
That said, fundamentals still trump all.
Long Term with "Hot" Girls
Over the long term, if you want the best, most consistent results with increasingly attractive women, you need to improve your fundamentals. "Game" only works so long as you stay in known territory; the instant you stumble into a novel situation where you don't otherwise know what to do or how to behave, you fall back on your baseline.
If you have a solid baseline of having built yourself into an attractive man, that fall won't be far at all, since you'll be using only a small amount of game (or none) anyway. If you haven't worked on those fundamental aspects of what make you yourself attractive though, and have tried to finesse your way to success with game, the fall can be a big one.
The lesson here is leave finessing things to the lazy guys who want short term results at the cost of long term ones. You can finesse things, and get good enough results right now... but developing yourself into an overall attractive man gets you the most phenomenal results, with hotter and hotter girls, as you progress.
There's only so good you can get with finesse. A thousand-man army can have the best technique and most highly advanced weapons in the world, but it's still not going to stand a chance against a million-man one.
Getting your fundamentals down is how you bludgeon your way to victory, no finesse needed. It's also consistent because you don't need to be in peak mental condition to bludgeon something. It's not like performing a complicated series of delicate moves, all of which must be executed to precision.
Instead, it's just swinging a big, heavy object (in this case, your attractive self) and trying to hit something (in this case, her heart and/or loins).
So yes, do study finesse a bit. If you need to talk to a hot girl
right now, today, and you have no time to work on upgrading yourself,
take the above five points out for a spin... you might be able to pull
something off. If you meet a girl you'd normally rate higher level than
you and you want to take a stab at getting her even though your
fundamentals aren't on par with hers yet, finesse can help.
In the long term?
Work on becoming so undeniably attractive that those women who seem "hot" to you now will see you as "hot" later.
And then you won't need precision. All you'll need to do is step up
to the plate and swing.