Should You Buy Gifts for a Girlfriend?


gifts for girlfriendWe're in the midst of the gift-giving season, and one of the big questions that comes up this time of year is both whether you ought to buy gifts for a girlfriend - and, if so, what kinds of gifts... and how many?

My phys ed teacher in high school, a guy named Mr. Myers, was known for dumping his girlfriends a few weeks before Christmas because he didn't want to buy them presents - all the boys thought this was hilarious and badass, and the girls thought it was despicable (but still flirted with him anyway). He was one of those assholes who wasn't completely magnetic, but he had this half-sleazy, half-charming way of grinning that told you he probably did all right with the fairer sex regardless.

When I was younger, and a bit more white knight-y, I thought this was just poor behavior of his; "If I had a girlfriend, I'd sure buy her Christmas presents!" I thought to myself.

But when I got a little bit older, and picked up a bit more actual life experience with women, I began to reconsider that position: was it possible that Mr. Myers had a point?

Might it be better to be Scrooge than Santa during the season of holiday cheer and good will toward men?


gifts for girlfriend

When I was a seduction greenhorn, I had a mentor who swore off holidays altogether as his rationale for not having to figure out which of his multiple girlfriends he'd spent Valentine's Day or Christmas or any other special occasion with.

"On Valentine's Day," he'd tell a girl he was seeing, "I'll be playing video games."

At least for this friend, I think it ran a little deeper - he'd had an uncomfortable childhood growing up, and swearing off the holidays for him seemed to be a way of sweeping up occasions that were devoted to family... a part of his life he'd always had strained relations with.

I'd grown up in a happy family with a tranquil home where holidays had always been of great importance: statues and figurines and paraphernalia decorated the house a month before any given holiday; holiday-appropriate music played at all times; holiday movies ran almost every night. Church visits were made for holidays with a religious component; and gift-giving, in the form of piles of presents, baskets overflowing with Easter candy, or the like, was the norm.

Despite being a somewhat removed individual myself, the holidays always held a bit of a soft spot in my heart.

But to listen to my mentor, celebrating them at all could be a very dicey situation - particularly in the dating world of the 21st century.


Figuring Out the Holidays

In "What to Do with Your Girlfriend on Valentine's Day", I talked a lot about the intricacies of whether to meet a girl or not on a holiday, based on the level your relationship with her is at. We'll touch on that a bit here, but if you want a more in-depth treatment, have a read through that article.

The long and short of it is, if a girl is just a casual partner of yours, do not see her on a holiday; conversely, if she's a serious partner of yours, you probably do want to see her then.

What if you have multiple serious-ish girlfriends? Pick the one who's most important to you; your #1 girl, or "primary", or whatever term you like. Some argument could be made that you ought to pick whichever girl is in the most need of a boost / can least tolerate another holiday without you, but that's a flawed approach; then you end up with multiple girlfriends who are in some degree of disquiet, rather than one who's fully content and one or more others who simply have to deal with the fact that they aren't #1.

If you're in a more conventional / monogamous relationship, and it's already past the casual phase, you have the easiest decision of all: just spend the holiday with her.

Unless you're swearing off holidays, of course.

So, back to that - should you swear off the holidays?

I've lived a not-quite-usual lifestyle for a number of years now, and frankly, I haven't really run into much trouble with holidays. For me at least, I tend to be somewhat sporadic - some holidays I will spend with a girlfriend, while other ones I will work or take the day off or, like that old friend of mine, just kick up my feet and play video games. Other times I will go to visit my family (especially around Christmas) - occasionally I've taken girlfriends with me, but usually I just go myself. Getting out of doing holidays is simple enough when you just aren't in town.

There are a couple of secrets to handling holidays when you're seeing multiple women in serious or semi-serious relationships (and you think or suspect they might both or all be inclined to angle for spending the Yuletide or another holiday with you):

  1. One of the secrets is figuring out your holiday plans far in advance of the holiday. Know exactly what you're going to be doing before anyone can even start pushing or pestering you to spend the day this way or that - you'll avoid any sticky situations by already having a map for the terrain.

  2. Another is not making holidays a big deal publicly. If you make a big show about how Christmas is your favorite time of year, your girlfriends will necessarily want to spend it with you, for instance. If you have two girlfriends, and both are under the impression that Christmas is super important to you, both are going to make spending Christmas with you their utmost priority (and be crestfallen if they can't).

    Even if you only have ONE girlfriend, if you make a holiday a huge deal, she will pursue getting time with you during that holiday with single-minded determination, and feel confident she "has" you if she gets it, or lose faith in the relationship if she does not. Never make holidays a big deal around girlfriends - even if they normally are to you. Unless you're already committed to a girl - at that point, it's fine to let some holiday cheer really come out if you're a big holidays person. But don't do it while the relationship's still being sorted, because you instantly place yourself in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position.

gifts for girlfriend

Of course, if you are going to spend the holidays with a girlfriend, that introduces another question - namely, gifts for your girlfriend: to buy, or not to buy?


gifts for girlfriend

There's one key that makes the whole gift-giving thing become immediately clear: how big a deal is it?

It's the same question as whether you ought to buy a girl a drink or not... whether you should pay for a date... whether you should do anything at any time or other.

Are you obeying the tenets of the Law of Least Effort and sprezzatura, or are you not?

The reason that some men are able to buy women drinks and have those women end up in their beds while many other men buy women drinks and have those women thank them curtly and then vanish off into the night, drink in hand, is the same reason why some men buy women gifts and only have those women like them, love them, and respect them more... while so many other men who buy women gifts do it wrong and lose like, love, status in the relationship, and respect.

And it all comes down to that single question: how big a deal is it?


Effort, Expectations, and Gift-Giving

Imagine, if you will, a scenario.

A woman is dating two men. She has yet to make up her mind about which of these men she wants to become her boyfriend. Both men decide to give her gifts.

One man spends his bottom dollar to buy her a beautiful, expensive necklace that looks fantastic on her. The other man buys her a cheap, but meaningful, gift - a heart rate monitor watch, something he knows she'll love because she's an avid treadmill runner and is always telling him how fast her pulse was racing after such and such workout.

Which gift does the woman value more? She'll be dazzled by the necklace, at least at first... but a month or two out, she'll have completely forgotten it, whereas the watch she'll wear every time she goes to the gym, and will think about her beau that got it for her every time she straps it on.

Even more than which gift she'll value though comes the question of which man she'll value more highly - the man who scrimped and saved and sacrificed to get her the necklace - or the man who barely dinged his paycheck and got her the watch?

The necklace-buying suitor of course plunges himself deep into boyfriend consideration (and possibly an early boyfriend role, if the two of them are not sleeping together yet), but if that's not what she's looking for - and unless she's rebounding from a relationship with an exciting bad boy whom she frustratingly couldn't tame, or she's reached the age where the "fun" is behind her and now it's time to "get serious", it almost certainly isn't - she's going to devalue him compared to the more comfortable, casual, and thoughtful other man.

Because in gift-giving, effort remains king... and if you have to put out a colossal amount of effort to buy an unimpressive and generic gift (i.e., one you could buy for ANY woman), you don't look so sharp.

There's one other problem with the sold-everything-he-owned-just-to-get-you-this-present guy, too: his expectations are going to be sky high.

Unrealistic expectations are a big problem for women, just as they are for men when women do it with you, because they communicate that the man with the unrealistic expectations has placed a given woman on a pedestal - which, of course, tells her two things:

  1. You judge her as being out of your league - which probably means she needs to reassess how highly she valued you before, and dock your score in light of your own scoring of her vs. you, and

  2. You're going to expect her to act like and be some unrealistic picture of perfection personified that she will never in a million years be able to live up to - nor want to

Conversely, the casual gift-giving man who does not sell a kidney to get her the present of her dreams (or that he thinks OUGHT to be the present of her dreams) sets expectations of calmness, casualness, and realistic expectations - she can let her hair down around him, be real, and not have to act like a Disney princess at all times, lest he become disillusioned with her less-than-pristine real life nature. And that level of comfort with him means she's far more honest, far more relaxed, and far more comfortable with him than she is with his opposite.

The secret in giving gifts lies in not making them a big deal - to save your effort, your status, and her comfort and ease with you and your relationship together.


What Kind of Gifts a Girlfriend Values Most

Much as women might tell you they'd like a diamond ring (or a house), these are not heartfelt, deeply emotional requests (whether made superficially in jest or clearly in all seriousness) - rather, they are logical ones, or tests to probe their standings with you.

In fact, a woman will never be able to TELL you what kind of gift she'll truly value most - because the gifts she'll truly value most are almost never the ones she expects.

That's because the most impactful gifts are the ones that tell a girl, "I know you better than you realize I do - and maybe even better than you know yourself."

It isn't the gift that means most to women; it's the message behind the gift.

Buy her a piece of jewelry? Almost no time or thought went into it. Might be expensive, sure - but you'd have bought the same damn thing whether she was her, or some other girl, or some other one.

Pick gifts that appeal as strongly as possible to someone's own unique tastes and preferences - this is how you give her gifts she really loves and values, and how you show her that you really "get" her - and really care about her.

As noted in the article on Valentine's Day, you don't have to buy presents for a girl usually; usually all you really need is to give her time: give her some time from your schedule that you spend just on her, and (particularly if you're a busy man) that's frequently all she needs. You can go on a day trip; go to a restaurant; or just spend time together at home - nothing special needed.

That said... there is something invaluable about gifts themselves. I don't always get girlfriends gifts for birthdays and holidays - I try to, but sometimes forget or run out of time, and I just spend time with them instead.

But when you do get gifts, you want them to be gifts with a little thought behind them - that are meaningful.

gifts for girlfriend

What's the best kind of gift? In my opinion, one a girl will use again and again, that serves to make her think about you and remind her that you do "get" her. Such a gift provides ongoing relationship management benefits - even if she's mad at you, if she pops on those stylish boots you got her because you know she needed new boots, or she has a coffee or a cocoa out of that awesome high-tech mug you got her that keeps her drink hot a lot longer, she'll think warmly of you and tie the satisfaction with the gift back to you, taking some of that edge off.

In this way, your gifts can serve a dual purpose, if you make them gifts she's going to use a lot: they provide a boost of comfort and reassurance to the relationship when she first gets them, and then again every time (in lesser amounts, but still noticeable) she uses them.

Now, I can't tell you exactly what to buy her - that's the hard part, and it's one you've got to figure out on your own based on how well you know her. However, I can give you some guidelines that will make great gift-giving immensely easier:

  1. Pay close attention to her favorite activities. What does she really love to do? It doesn't have to be all the time. If she's an avid skier and gets to go ski four or five times a year, for instance, that's enough - just look at what gear she has, and get her a really amazing version of whatever she needs most. Her ski mittens are looking threadbare? Get her a new pair with some nifty features in them.

  2. Observe habits she has and hews to. Is she an inveterate juice drinker? You can buy her a juicer and a bunch of vegetables to start out with. Does she like writing in a notepad when she has downtime? Get her a really nice pen (find out what kinds of pens she likes first - if you get her a ballpoint and she likes rollerballs, you may find your gift quickly ends up in a shoebox somewhere).

  3. Pay attention to things she says she likes, wants, or needs. People will make off-the-cuff comments about things they think are really cool or interesting - keep track of what she says things like this about... especially if she says it more than once. She might say something is cool once off-hand, and not much appreciate it as a gift if you get it for her; but if it's something she flips out over every time she sees it, you've probably got a winner.

  4. Personalized personality / astrological items. Not every girl is into astrology - but a lot of them are. Particularly if you know her combined Chinese and Western zodiac signs, you can find some neat gifts in this area that feel highly personalized - whether you subscribe to astrology personally or not.

  5. Customized items. You can get customized items with your and her pictures on them, or customized in some other way. Many times these items are kitschy, but sometimes you can find something really nice that you know will be a hit, and customize it and make it even more of one.

  6. Gift idea tracker. Something I started doing a little while back was keeping a spreadsheet on my laptop with a list of gift ideas for everyone I'd normally buy presents for in it. I noticed that at multiple times throughout the year, I'd see something and think, "Wow, that'd be the PERFECT present for X," but then when it was gift-buying time later on, I'd be struggling to come up with even a single good gift idea for X. With a spreadsheet like this, any time I stumble across something I think would make a great gift for a certain person, I jot it down under his or her name in the sheet; then, when a birthday or holiday rolls around and I need gift ideas, I can pick a few out of the list and my shopping is finished in a fraction of the time, with zero deliberation - and it results in great presents that everyone loves, because I have a year of thinking and idea-generating behind my buying, instead of a last minute hour or two.

Gifts don't have to be big, or expensive; and very often, big and expensive gifts end up underwhelming (they're not that useful, or thoughtful) while carrying with them burdening expectations (wow, he got me THIS? Crap... I'd better be nice to him).

Go small, go personal, and go highly targeted - you'll become an amazing gift giver as soon as you do.


Putting a Bow on Things

Unlike Mr. Myers and that early mentor I had in seduction, I don't see a need to play Scrooge for the holidays. Dumping a girl for Christmas or disavowing the holidays to save yourself hassle is, to me, throwing the baby out with the bathwater - it's getting rid of a fox in the hen house by burning down the hen house, with all the hens still in it.

The difference comes in how you treat gift-giving: as some chore to complete, where you buy people something just to dutifully do so, or as an opportunity to purchase thoughtful, useful items that are tailored to the individual and something that will serve as a frequent reminder that, yes - he makes me feel good.

Of course, if the relationship isn't that serious yet, it's better not to see her for the holidays; and, unless you've already passed the commitment point, you probably don't want to make the holidays seem like too much of a big deal.

Yet, if you truly get behind the spirit of the season, and behind gift-giving itself, and instead of trying to impress and wow with big ticket items or fanciful displays you stick to try to really add value to someone's life by getting her things you know she will appreciate, enjoy, and use, you can use the holidays as an occasion that neither makes her feel like she "has" you, nor one that makes her feel like you're bending over backwards for her; instead, you're just a cool, thoughtful cat who knows exactly what she wants.

And that's the best present of all.

Merry Christmas,
Chase

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Comments

Moonrayarc's picture

very thoughtful article, much


very thoughtful article, much needed right now.
Chase, i'd like to know how do you deal practically with :
1) giving an advice in smooth, pleasant way
2) inspire a girl to follow her path or some other path

Chase Amante's picture

Advising and Inspiring

Author

Moonray-

On giving advice, usually stay away from this unless asked. If you must give advice to someone who isn't asking for it, Socratic questioning is usually the way to go - you just continually ask pointed questions about the thing that help the other person come to conclusions he might not have thought of otherwise had you not led him down the path. Many times, though, people will say / do things to get your reaction, so that you flip out and say, "No, don't do that!" and if you don't flip out and just sit there and go, "Hmm!" and nod your head with an amused grin, they'll flip out themselves and go, "What?" and you'll say, "Nothing, that sounds great!" and they'll say, "What?!" and you'll go, "Nah, I'm just a stick in the mud - you're going to be fine," and they'll keep pushing until they've pulled so hard for your advice you can basically give it with impunity.

Another way is encouraging, while sharing a dramatic counterexample. I recently had a Canadian friend in his late 30s tell me he wanted to give up his successful business to go join the Canadian special forces (he'd just come out of a bad breakup and was a bit all over the place). So we talked about that, and I told him they'd sure train the crap out of him, and told him about a story a Marine friend of mine shared with me about his Marine Corps bootcamp, where guys asking, "Sir, permission to use the bathroom, sir!" would hear, "Permission denied!" until they urinated in their pants, all because they didn't know to ask, "Sir, permission to speak, sir!" first before asking... and nobody told them. I concluded by saying, "That's why I never joined the military myself; I'm just not very good at having other people yell at me and me following their orders."

My friend thought for a minute, then said, "... yeah, I'm not so good at following orders either. Hmm. Okay, let's not join the special forces! I'll probably just get private sector training then!"

On inspiration - see Colt's first article on the site here, there's a big chunk about this in it: "Student of the Game: How to Succeed with Women."

Chase

Larry's picture

Mr. Myers - top caliber guy?


I've read some articles on the site where you mention 'top caliber guy'. How would you define the term and what do you consider to be the best qualities in those guys (money, looks, celebrity status, having 'good game'...)? Could you list some men as example?

Thank you,
Larry

Chase Amante's picture

Top Caliber

Author

Larry-

It's a somewhat subjective term, as what's a top caliber guy to one girl isn't necessarily the same for another, but more or less what I mean when I say a "top caliber guy" is a man who has his fundamentals in very good order - he's solidly attractive with high social value - and who has good game - he knows the ins and outs of all social situations, can talk his way out of almost anything, and understands how to move fluidly through society. I'd also highlight a strong sexual vibe as a mandatory quality for what I'd consider "top caliber" - a guy might be good looking, rich, famous, and powerful, but if women don't see him as sexy, he's lacking in one of the most important "power" departments there are.

As for examples, George Clooney's an easy off-the-top-of-my-head example of a top quality guy, as much for his disposition, sexuality, and social grace as his fame and fortune. He looks good, he's comfortable, he makes other people around him feel good, he's easygoing, and he seems genuine and warm. He's also very sexual, and exudes power and control, despite his easy demeanor. When you meet guys like George Clooney in real life, even though they aren't rich or famous they still strike that chord with you that makes you say, "Now there's a guy it'd be cool to have as a friend," and that makes women say, "If he asked me out right now, I'd give him my phone number so fast I'd get tongue tied."

Chase

Royce's picture

Location


Chase, as I mentioned, I'm still in school(not saying it's high school specifically (; ) and I don't really know where to find girls to talk to because I can't go into bars/clubs/etc. I go almost every weekend to the mall to practice cold approaching(which I'm fairly good at now, thanks) but I'm pretty tired of the same routine. Any tips on where I could head off to meet girls, I still approach older girls and just lie about my age so age isn't really a problem. And one last question, the techniques in all your articles are too much to remember to put to use while talking to girls, so is there any way to proficiently put all of them into use without having to try to remember. Thanks, and Merry Christmas!

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Location

Author

Royce-

Check out this article: "Where to Find an Amazing Woman: 20 Surprising Places."

Re: keeping stuff in your head, my recommendation is to take no more than three (3) things you're actively working on implementing, write them down on a small sheet of paper, and stick that piece of paper in your pocket when you go out. Every so often, take it out when you have a moment and glance at it to remind yourself to stay on target; are you supposed to be asking girls for their phone numbers today? Using some specific witty line or opener? Trying out screening? Keep using the same ones until you feel comfortable enough using them without needing to push yourself to; then, you can write down some new objectives on another piece of paper, and take that out with you instead.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

You've just got time...


Has she a pet? Especially the cute, cuddly sort?

Take a dozen pictures of her pet - or raid her picture files and take them to any local print-shop. For about the price of paperback novel they will
print them into a calendar.

Cheap, quick, personal and highly romantic.

You have four days left until the new year ;-)

Cheerio,

Anonymous's picture

Pickup artist


Wonderful article as usual chase. Keep up the fantastic work. I had a question about a particular pickup artist I had seen around youtube. He goes by Justin Wayne dating. Now, when I his his in field videos, I notice he does a lot of things wrong that go against much of what is taught on this website. For example, he speaks fast and he talks about himself A LOT. Then again he does other things right, such as touching. Apparently, or supposedly I should say, he gets great results. I wanted to get your take on him and see what you think about him. An example video of his would be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TipN5gUaKw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Thanks Chase, and once again, keep up the great work.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Pickup artist

Author

Anon-

Some thoughts from me on Justin Wayne on the second page of comments here: Re: How to be Bold?

I also discussed the talkative approach in my most recent article (here); you can make this work, it just doesn't have as high a hit rate; however, talking about yourself a lot can work okay if you're sufficiently impressive and the girl is sufficiently impressionable or in a very receptive mood. Alternatively, you can tweak your conversation so that you get off the topic of you quickly enough and onto her, though you usually need to start off talkative when doing day game / street pick up.

Chase

Troy's picture

Merry Christmas!


Merry Christmas!

Seasons grettings to the entire girlschase team. Its been a great year of many new articles, new quiz and diagnostic ebooks, much work behind the scene, replies to emails and on the forum e.t.c......

I wish everyone here continued improvement in their lives with getting and keeping girls, business, school studies and whatever else you put time into to excel in.

And hey Chase, maybe next year christmas you could another christmas special article on:

1) Maybe even more exciting article on things to add to the bedroom with your girlfriend to turn her on and create over drive attraction: lingerie, flowers in room, sex toys, room smell, dirty talk in bed, sweet foods to eat in bed, e.t.c.. what do you think Chase?

Anyway, nice christmas special article. merry christmas to you all! santa will be bringing gifts to you all this year! :)

Troy! :)

Troy's picture

Contradictions


Hey Chase, ive seen a few more contradictions on here lately. i cant remember them all but here are the ones i remember:

1) In drexels article, "how to have threesomes with your girlfriend", he stated this line: " in another instance, i simply sent a text to one of my friend with benefits: "hey, i want to hook up with you and another girl tonight. into it? she was, and the three of us had sex later that night."

Chase, what i dont understand there is you give different advice to leave plausible deniability and not be so straightforward over text to a girl. could you explain the right interpretation of this?

2) In drexels article on "how to next a girl", he stated that when a girl treats you poorly, just walk away and ignore her. in 1 of your articles, you talk about frame control and not breaking frames before the girl does to show you are the strong leader and maintain respect. could you explain this for me?

Also, when it comes to marriage, how would i next a girl when we should be living together and sleeping in the same bed? isnt this childish behavior that everytime your main woman does something you dont approve of to just walk away? id like your insight on this chase please!

There are a few more articles on here with clashing insights. I cant remember them all now but i just think our two new writers mainly Drexel and Alek (are doing a great job) but has some advice going against what you and the other writers here. hopefully you might identify other mishaps or someone else so they can be corrected.

On request for a article idea! you stated that there is a right way and wrong to make requests. example:

Wrong way to asking for something: " I WANT a date with you today!

Right way: Id like to take you on a date soon if youre not completely opposing to that idea!

The right way shows consideration and gives a command at the same time. So in the right way id ask you Chase: " Id like to see an article on giving commands (and words to use) while showing consideration for the other person to up your chance of getting a YES! Ive had trouble giving commands to people taht give them a way out but also makes them more likely to go with my request. Thanks!

Troy

Chase Amante's picture

Questions

Author

Troy-

Noted on the topics for spicing things up in the bedroom; I've added them to the article queue. Also noted on the "how to make requests" article; on commands, see this one: "Tactics Tuesdays: Command Women (and Have Them Listen)."

Re: talking with friends with benefits, once you've slept with a girl a few times, you've "converted" her into a girl you're now clearly having sex with, and (particularly if she's sexually open-minded), you can very often just be straight with her. This is especially true with a friend with benefits where it's obvious you're not destined for monogamy; there's no need for her to keep up pretenses and act like a "good girl" who would "never do something like that" with you; instead, if she's into something, she can just say it, and the two of you can just do it.

Re: walking away from a girl, if she's being sufficiently disrespectful, standing there and taking it isn't maintaining frame control, it's just being a pushover. Some women will push and push to see how much you can take, and you taking more unnecessary crap says nothing about strength and everything about weakness - usually, fear of being weak or fear of leaving or of upsetting her further by cutting the cord and jumping ship. If she's clearly in the wrong, being emotional and being irrational, unless you're going to challenge her back and win the fight (something you should really only do inside of a reasonably committed relationship), the best thing to do is kick her out, or leave yourself.

Chase

WFC's picture

Training Course


Chase,

I have an idea for girlschase. i often find myself searching the website and reading article after article, clicking links to other ones while im only half way through the text. girlschase should have a list, starting with the basics and working your way up to the more complicated stuff. almost like a training course! i feel that this will give us a more rounded understanding of what we need to know.

i am in highschool, and had no idea where to start with girls. this website helped me have more confidence and a better mindset not only with girls, but with people alltogether.

my point about all of this is that there should be a place to start for people that dont know what to look for, or what they need.

thanks for all of your help chase :)

-WFC

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Training Course

Author

WFC-

We do have one! I probably need to do a better job of making it stand out / giving it a more prominent position on the sidebar... have you seen the diagnostic quiz: "Girl Skills Diagnostic." At the end of the quiz, you'll receive a "Getting Started" eBook that'll walk you through all the most relevant articles depending on where you're at, and give you assignments, to boot.

There's also the Newbie Assignment on the boards that you may want to complete, to get you plugged in and on your way as well. Both that and the "Getting Started" eBooks have plenty of assignments as well as materials to get you out and approaching.

Chase

V's picture

If you're not so lucky


Hi chase, I keep thinking about picking up younger girls when i get older and I really want to know....

Say if you're aren't lucky enough to retire at 30-40, you don't own your own business, and you don't have a lot of money, you can't really get younger girls?

I feel only a small amount of people can actually have all of that and what if you tried your hardest but couldn't do it? Does that mean its very difficult to pull young girls?

it seems you can't do it unless you have those.

So if we can't reach those levels in life, what can older guys to to still pull young women?

Thank you! !!!

V's picture

Nervous smile/fake smile


How do you stop doing fake/nervous smiles?

Chase Amante's picture

Age & Smiles

Author

V-

Well, 30's still pretty young; a man doesn't reach his sexual prime until he hits his mid-30s or so. Outside of college girls, most young women have no problems dating men in their 30s in my experience. Personally, I didn't start doing consistently well with girls in their late teens and early twenties until I hit 27 or 28 or so.

Once you're hitting 40 or so, I know my fair share of men in their 40s who have successful careers working for companies who do quite well with younger women, and I know guys over 40 who run their own small businesses that aren't that big, but they're still theirs, and they do very well with younger women.

I think the key here is not necessarily the money, but the self-confidence that comes with these positions; if you run your own business and control your own income, you have a sense of power and independence that an employee of somebody else doesn't really get to have; and if you're a higher up who has other people working for him and who gets to call the shots and have a lot more leeway with the hours he works and has a nice cushion of funds built up if anything happens, you have a certain degree of power and security that lets you stretch out your wings. If you're still living paycheck to paycheck at 40, by that time, every guy I've known doing this just has a beaten down personality that women run from like the plague. That said, it sounds like you're spending a little too much time worrying the distant future, and not enough focusing on the here-and-now: what can you do right now so that your women and money situations are handled well before you reach that point?

As for nervous smiles, that one's simple enough: just quit smiling so much. If you catch yourself with an uncomfortable smile, as soon as you notice it, bring yourself out of the smile and get a more serious / focused look on your face instead. It'll look more sincere.

Chase

Wolf's picture

WTF


I never been friend zoned like this in my life. I've only known the girl I worked with for 2 weeks and spoke to her here and there, I moved fast then she said the boyfriend thing then I asked out when I seen her a week later. You know what this chick says?, she ask me do I have a girl to bring for a double date. Wtf, I never came off as the friendly type and this is too quick to be in the friend zone. I guess im done with this one right? But what could I have done to out myself in the friend bucket so quick when I barely talk to her and ask her out?

Thanks

Wolf's picture

Getting rid of emotions


I can't take rejection at all, I get angry at the girl and then I feel like every girl will reject me and that im not sexy after I get turned down. I ask girls out quite often, but still not immune to it yet and I dont get bitter, i just cut the girl off, How do I get rid of these emotions and negative thinking?

Thanks

Chase Amante's picture

Work & Emotion

Author

Wolf-

Work's one of the easiest places in the world to end up friend zoned. I'd suggest ditching work as a place to meet women - unless you know what you're doing, it's usually a quick trip to oribter land. Most women have options, and when you've got options, you'll tend to discard those options that risk your livelihood if they don't work out... as most relationships do not.

Emotions run high whenever you're dealing with women you have any degree of emotional investment in - see "The Wrapping and the Present." The easiest way to not have to worry about these is to stick to meeting women through cold approach, and to cold approach often enough that you don't worry so much about rejection - after all, your first three or so rejections of any given outing are just your warmups for the interactions yet to come that day.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Being Direct


Chase, until recently I have always tried to play the hard to get-show them no interest game in order to try and intrigue girls and have them wonder why isn't this man all over me like the others.

I ran that style with every girl, and as you can understand my results were somewhat inconsistent

Recently, with my dramatically improved fundamentals I have learnt that when your fundamentals are higher than a girls it is actually more effective to be more direct, show my interest and execute the 'your cute' etc compliments. When a girl sees you as a high profile man and you show her your interested things usually work out.
As opposed to showing her no interest and her auto rejecting.

My question is:

Should I vary my directness, interest levels, compliments etc in accordance to the girls fundamentals and personality?
Essentially, with a genuine stunner who sees herself as top dollar, surely holding back a little on my interest levels and compliments would be best? But with a slightly lesser good looking girl, lacking in the confidence department, showing my interest and executing compliments would be a good idea?

Have I got this right? It's all about calibration, correct?

I guess in most interactions, if you want something to happen, you've got to let her know you think she's cute at some point right? Especially when your fundamentals are so high that even when you deep dive, relate and spend time with her, unless you explicitly say 'I like you' or something to that effect, she's always going to doubt wether you really like her or not.

I guess direct compliments etc can often save you from auto rejection in many girls?

-----------------------------

My second and third questions are:

- After a Somewht long interaction with a girl featuring loads of deep diving etc, just what do you talk about when you get back to your place, or in two weeks time etc? I'm guessing just light general chit chat?

- I recently started seeing a girl, and we really do click and connect on many levels. Similar personalitys, tastes, outlooks on life etc etc, my question is: she is only 19 and I am 29, if we choose to take things further into a relationship or something like that, do you see any problems that our age gap may cause?

It's a funny one because really, there have been no problems, I mean we relate very well which usually is one of the possibly problems people highlight in age gap relationships. (personally I don't really see why different ages would make much impact on wether two people relate or not but yeh)

Do you see any problems down the line?

Cheers chase, really love the site - I know everyone says that, but we really mean it!

Chase Amante's picture

Interest Levels and Age Gaps

Author

Anon-

Thanks for the love!

If anything, I'd recommend you be direct more often with women who are genuine stunners than with the less cute girls! That's mainly because you'll be more sincere... when you're telling a girl, "You are really cute," and you really mean it, and you're saying in strongly and confidently and attractively, with great fundamentals, it's sexy.

You're best off varying your interest levels in response to her interest levels, rather than what you perceive as her attractiveness / dominance / social calibration, etc. If you're with a gorgeous, personable, super social woman who's very warm with you, acting aloof usually means she figures you're too nervous with her OR that you're just not all that receptive, and she jumps to someone else. Conversely, if you're with an unattractive girl who's cold to you, and you're very warm and direct with her, she'll be every bit as put off by this as a more attractive woman with a similar disposition toward you would. Mirror the interest levels of the girl you're interacting with, and go just slightly below hers if she seems very calm and confident around you, or just slightly above them if she seems nervous and unconfident in your presence.

During the pull, right - this is usually just general chit-chat by this point, and just trying to keep the vibe warm. You'll generally move out of deep diving and into light banter as you near sex, since deep mental connection isn't so closely connected to the act of deep physical connection - it can help prime the connection, but once you start getting closer, it's time to get it out of the way.

Re: the girl 10 years your junior - the main problems with the age gap may be social pressure if she's still in school (schools tend to foster very closed-minded opinions about who should be dating whom, since everyone's within a few years of each other there and that's mostly who everybody dates - classmates - so, very likely your girl gets social pressure calling her weird, you weird, or both of you weird, and encouragement to date people more her age), and different priorities - maybe at 31 you decide you want to settle down and start a family, but she's just turned 21 and realized she's never traveled Europe (or slept with a sexy Italian guy she met vacationing in Rome). If school doesn't get in the way though, and the two of you end up having similar priorities, it could be a great match - the other big difference you see is connection problems (she thinks Snapchat is all the rage and never gets off her phone, while you think social media is so 2000s, and detest people on their phones in social situations), but it soundsl ike that's not an issue for you, so it'll mainly be the other two things you'll have to navigate.

Chase

Gem's picture

Women in Family (in relation to game)


Hey Chase,

Do you know how a man’s relationship with the other women in his family relates into game and his abilities for seduction? There was an interview I’d seen a while back of Paul Janka where he discusses how part of why he thinks he is interested so much in women and has done so well with women is because he had a single mother growing up and was very close with her.

I’m very close with my mom and my sister and I’ve noticed that other than a sexual element, my relationships with them are sort of similar to my relationships to other women in that I am sweet, cool and alpha, and know how to listen and give just the right bit of empathy to them (and find that because of it my mom and my sister enjoy the time I spend with them when I do).

Something else I’m curious about here is can relationship and connection with women in the family serve as some strain of pre-selection when out? I was at the mall the other day holiday shopping with my mom and was waiting in line with her to buy items. I’ve noticed that when I do go out with my mom or my sister, women will look my way more (like some sort of preselection is there again) and today was no different.

We were waiting in line for a while like 15 minutes and my mom was starting to get impatient (and ready to snap at the staff it seemed). In the meantime I noticed a pretty girl a bit of a distance away that I wanted to go meet so I gave my mom a kiss on the cheek and told her “Hey, don’t be angry our turn will come soon” (like telling a little kid not to cry she’ll get her turn to ride) and then I went to go meet the girl. I noticed more of the ladies in the store notice me and it made me wonder if there was something there after all or just my imagination (and only standard good-fundamentals helping me out).

-Gem

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Women in Family (in relation to game)

Author

Gem-

My suspicion is that a man's relationship with the women in his family growing up is reflected in his approach with women later in life. Men who've had love-hate relationships with their mothers tend to have love-hate relationships with women; men who've had to caretake their mothers or had fragile/delicate mothers tend to look for damsels in distress to save; men who've had overbearing mothers tend to prefer overbearing women they can be submissive around. A healthy relationship with a sister or two growing up can balance out some of the mother-son problems if there are any, though, I've seen as well.

On going out with female family members serving as preselection - I suspect what it actually does is position you as a more attractive long-term prospect (e.g., raises your boyfriend value up substantially), though in a good way - attractive boyfriends are actually more highly valued by women than lovers, overall. Though I don't have enough data points on it to say for sure (only a few here and there myself over the years, and it isn't something I've discussed much with others), I think it's similar to what you feel as a man (or at least, what I do) when you see a girl with a healthy relationship with her father, and immediately think, "Girlfriend material!" right away to yourself.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

RE: How to respond to facebook friend request from friendzones?


Hi Chase!

I want to thank you for everything, I used to be a guy girls would friendzone because I didnt move fast enough. Now, thanks to you, I have girls complaining to me about guys they friendzoned.

Today, out of the blue, I received a friend request from a girl who had friendzoned me in the past. I moved way too slow, she lost interest, then when I chased her, her interest did pick up again, but I missed an escalation window again. This was about exactly a year ago.

After about 3 months of chasing, in march this year, I cut off all contact with her, and deleted her as a friend from my facebook. After this, I could sense this affected her as she tried adding me on linkedin, etc and would try to talk to me in various ways. I ignored all this, we graduated from college, and had no contact since march.

Now, 9 months later, she sent me a facebook friend request out of the blue. I do have to admit I do have some feelings towards her still but am afraid that if I accept her request, it will just be a way for her to feel as if she "got me" and that she doesn't need to chase me anymore.

I dont want to seem cocky or arrogant in any way, but since then I have gone to study law at Harvard and this could be her reason for chasing me still.

Should I accept, or just ignore the request and potentially turn into the "one that got away?" if I am open to perhaps reinitiating her in the future?

Thanks Chase!

Chase Amante's picture

Facebook Friending Dynamics

Author

Anon-

That's a nice reversal of roles on the friend zoning!

My feeling is similar on the Facebook friend request. If you're going to initiate contact with her again, I'd make sure to do it on your own terms, and not hers. e.g., when you want to resume, send her an email; or, if you don't have email, and Facebook's the only way, you can even decline her invite, and send her one of your own a few months later - she'll know you'll have declined her originally, so it serves as a bit of a neg that way, and tells her you're the new one deciding whether to provide attention and how much.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Relationship management


How do I maintain "power" in the relationship? Do I have to make sure she is more invested in the relationship than I am? What role does sex play in the power scale; for example who should be initiating and is it bad to want sex when she isn't lusting after it?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Relationship management

Author

Anon-

I'd recommend these articles for starters:

... and Ricardus's 11-article (I think it was) series on relationships, beginning here: "How to Not Fall in Love (Too Soon)."

It's part sex; part investment / effort; part maintaining respect; and part keeping her needs met. I like training longer term girlfriends to initiate with me, but you need to initiate with them at least some of the time too, or they start getting restless - see the "Turn On Your Girlfriend" article for more on that.

If you want it when she doesn't want it... just make sure you're good at getting her horny, and give her a good enough time that she becomes conditioned to not want to turn you down (because it's almost always such a good time!).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Bad precedence after you've been lovers


I am a famous football player or at least I was until I graduated in May, and for this reason I choose to remain anonymous. In college and High school I banged many girls, but when I graduated I realized the very scary fact that I was only getting girls because I was a football player and because I made people laugh. When I got out of college, I realized this doesn't work outside of college, my reputation didn't follow me, and woman look at me as a clown now, of course until I found this site and got my mojo back.

I've learned so much from this site its scary, but there comes a point in time when every man finds a woman they can see themselves settling down with,simply cannot forget about, or wants to have a relationship with. This particular woman for whatever reason is all I can think about because I do want a relationship with her, even though I already have an abundance of woman at my disposal. I have already had sex with this woman 3-4 times, and we seemed to be hitting it off very well. But of course because my game isn't perfect, I made a mistake and ruined the whole thing. See she's 28 and i am only 22, i am not use to dating older woman in fact this was the first woman over 22 I've ever dated. I made a joke that a girl my age in college would have laughed at but her being a 28 year old woman, she did not laugh, and told me she doesn't want to deal with me anymore because she feels like she is going to have to always correct me about making young adult mistakes.

She basically told me my second chance with her is the fact that she is going to remain my friend but no longer my lover. But what's confusing is she is still some what responsive to my texts and calls but no were near as much as before, she refuses to hangout with me or see me again unless I am lucky enough to run into her in the bar which has happened a few times, she will dance with me and speak with me in the bar but she wont go home with me or let me come back to her place. Although this is a unique situation, I feel like this happens to any new beginner once they find a woman they actually care about. All my friends advice is to keep a friend, and hope she comes back to me. I feel like this is bad advice because waiting around for a woman 95% of the time she does not come back, and I don't particularly want to take this risk because like I said i care a lot about her.

Is their any way to reverse bad precedence after you've already been lovers??

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Bad precedence after you've been lovers

Author

Anon-

Props on reinventing yourself after your previous approach stopped working. I've seen my share of guys who had it good in high school or college go both ways - some embrace the change and adapt to it and just let their natural good personalities do the work, while other guys cling to the glory days and never move beyond them or adapt to altered circumstances. Nice job effecting a turnaround.

The thing to understand with older women is that there legitimately IS a major difference between an early 20s male and a late 20s+ female - totally different priorities, different outlooks on life, everything. I talked a little about how much even slightly older women used to shut me down the instant they found out my age once I made it out into the real world at 23 (I had to start lying about my age to women): "Younger Men and Older Women."

Telling you she feels like she has to correct you about making young adult mistakes is a hard one to recover from, because she's essentially telling you she views you as a child, and what she wants is a man. You'd need to both change the behavior of yours that she views as childlike, and the prove yourself as a "man" (by her definition) somehow.

My feeling is you're best just leaving things as they are. You're not going to be able to turn yourself into the 35-year-old man she wishes you were, and even if you could, you'd need to be behaving like someone you aren't, and you'd probably be missing out on the twenties you need to experience in order to legitimately become the older man you'll someday be.

Anyway, if you really want her back, preselection is the magic cure-all for situations where the woman has decided you are too low value for her… just let her see you with a hot mid-20s girl, and she'll very likely get jealous and start flirting again (don't make the girl too young, though, or she'll auto-reject… older women generally don't feel they can compete with younger women, for somewhat good reason).

If you did manage to get her back this way, rather than trying to play by her rules, you'd have to start off the relationship telling herself, "Look - I AM 22 years old. I'm not going to be a 40-year-old, because I'm not 40 years old yet. Can you accept that, or can you not accept that - because I am what I am?" and she'll have to accept it… but you'll have to grow up fast and become what she wants if you don't want a ticking time bomb on your hands.

Ultimately, I think you're better off if you don't get her back. I know she probably seems amazing - my first older girlfriend when I was that age was a real treasure for me then, too - but trust me… there's plenty of 'em out there. They just take a little time to grow into it - you won't find them among the 18 to 22 crowd, but there's plenty of them from 26 on up. And you've got LOTS of time to date women who are 26 on up ;)

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Spontaneity


Hey Chase,

This website is simply invaluable to me and I'm really thankful that you and the rest of the writers have decided to share your collective expertise.

I have a question about spontaneity, I've just come from a night time street-game —the one where you described picking up girls who are heading for home after a night out— and I only had two good chances to talk to beautiful girls this midnight, one of them was 5 seconds after I arrived at the place, and the other one 15 minutes into the night. Given enough time, virtually anyone can approach a girl, but how does one train oneself to immediately assess the situation and take action? Does it simply come with experience, or is it some sort of an innate reflex? The first girls I mentioned passed by me as I watched them walk away in the cold weather, alone, and probably wishing they continued having a good time, while at the same time I'm thinking about my approach and getting over my approach anxiety, which is controllable after 10 minutes or so, and afterwards I can approach without a problem. This problem isn't only about approaching either, many things can apply such as a girl pulling on your jacket and being flirty just as you enter a high energy environment and the difference would be to act accordingly and reward her for her interest and introduce yourself or to stand there discombobulated and nowhere smooth as one should be(all of this happening in a time-frame of around 15 seconds, hence the title).

Thanks.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Spontaneity

Author

Anon-

Spontaneity is innate for a select lucky few, but for most of us, yeah, it's learned. If a girl yanked on my jacket and started flirting the moment I walked into a club in early 2006, I'd have stared at her like a deer caught in headlights and fumbled something nonsensical out of my mouth, most likely. These days I'd just respond with something akin to, "Pleasure to meet you!" and immediately draw her into me physically, because I know she's probably very horny and I need to show her I can escalate quickly and aggressively if I don't want her peeling off and bounding away to the next man.

One thing that can help if you're trying to get yourself to approach is a little self-talk pushing yourself to - e.g., you see a girl walking, and you're out specifically to approach, so you just start scolding yourself: "Go on, pussy - there she is, go talk to her, you wimp - don't be a little bitch, you're a little bitch if you don't say hi, just go talk to her and who cares what happens. That's what you're here to do, right pussy? Get to it, then." That kind of thing, at least for me, can be remarkably motivating, mainly because it takes you out of your head and makes it more of a light, funny thing, and less a big, serious deal - it's almost the same as if you had a wingman right there doing the same thing with you. For getting yourself into the habit of doing things you're nervous about doing in a very short amount of time, challenging yourself to go do them is hard to beat.

Also, see this article: "How to Be Decisive."

Chase

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