Operant Conditioning in Your Romantic Relationships


operant conditioningSomething I've noticed that a number of individuals untrained in relationship management theory tend to engage in is arbitrary (that is, seemingly random) punishment and reward inside of relationships. These sort of variable reward and punishment structures inside relationships generally lead to a host of negative outcomes for the person who's subject to arbitrary treatment, including:

  • Emotional dependency
  • Addiction and attachment
  • Wild mood swings
  • Submission
  • Resentment
  • Rebellion

Basically, the opposite of what you'd expect to see in a healthy, rewarding, productive relationship.

It's occurred to me that most of the people who use controlling, coercive, and more or less arbitrary relationship management tactics probably are not very familiar with operant conditioning - the system of punishment and reward established by B.F. Skinner for the purposes of behavior modification.

So today, I want to equip you with a very effective means of communicating your likes and dislikes to a romantic partner without ruffling feathers, being seen as an oppressor, or, conversely, a pushover.

I'm going to show you how to use operant conditioning in your relationships.


operant conditioning

In my travels, I once saw a mother - normally a very kind, warm, hospitable person - loudly scold her 4 year-old daughter, who was eating sugar cane, to throw the roots in the trash after she was done chewing them, or she'd take the sugar cane away. The daughter, mostly happy and treated well by her family, in this instance had done nothing wrong, and had already been doing exactly this. In rebellion against this seemingly random order / scolding, she threw the chewed sugar cane roots on the ground, instead of into the trash, and the mother dutifully took all the sugar cane away. The daughter began screaming and crying at the top of her lungs.

I asked a friend what caused the problem, and the mother told my friend repeated the tale from the mother's point of view and my friend translated. I asked why the mother had scolded her daughter thus in the first place; what brought this about?

The mother's reply was that she simply wanted to make sure her daughter was learning to behave the right way. Then - in a sign of insightfulness and openness to learning it's rare to see even in the first world - she asked me (through my friend) if there was anything she should have done differently.

"Yes," I said. "Tell her nicely, instead of scolding her, and you'll give her no reason to rebel."

This probably seems like a simple enough realization, but most people's relationships are rife with problems caused by seemingly easy-to-avoid conditioning mistakes.

Punishment is given for no reason, causing rebellion; rewards are given when they should be withheld, encouraging bad behavior; and rewards are withheld when they should be given, discouraging good new behaviors.

All of this can be avoided, however, with a little education on operant conditioning.


What Is Operant Conditioning?

In 1937, famed psychologist B.F. Skinner first used the term "operant conditioning" to describe the process of modifying an individual's behavior via a system of reward and punishment.

Operant conditioning, according to Wikipedia, is made up of two parts:

  1. Positive elements - things that are given following a behavior

  2. Negative elements - things that are taken away following a behavior

Note two very, incredibly, unbelievably key points here:

  1. In the context of operant conditioning, positive does not mean "good," and neither does negative mean "bad." Positive simply means that something is given, and negative simply means that something is taken away. What's given may be a punishment OR a reward, and what's taken away may be something liked OR something disliked.

  2. All forms of conditioning must take place AFTER a behavior has already taken place. You cannot train responses before a behavior takes place - the brain doesn't work that way, and it doesn't make the emotional connection that inspires behavior modification.

That last point is particularly important, and it's what the mother in that example early made her primary mistake in. She tried to punish before a behavior took place - scolding the child for an event that hadn't yet happened in an attempt to scare her off of doing it. We'll look at why you don't want to do this below, but for now, just keep in mind that you can only encourage or discourage behavior after it's manifested in some way or another.

Now, the positive and negative elements of operant conditioning are further broken down into three smaller pieces:

  1. Reinforcement - used to increase a behavior's frequency

  2. Punishment - used to decrease a behavior's frequency

  3. Extinction - a decrease in behavior caused by a lack of response

Of each of the first two, you can have positive (giving this following a behavior) and negative (removing this following a behavior) variants.

Positive reinforcement (giving an appetitive, or liked, stimulus to someone after a certain behavior) and negative reinforcement (removing a disliked, or aversive, stimulus after a certain behavior) both serve to increase a behavior's frequency.

So positive reinforcement gives something liked, negative reinforcement removes something disliked.

Positive punishment (giving an aversive, or disliked, stimulus or punishment after a certain behavior) and negative punishment (removing an appetitive, or liked, stimulus after a certain behavior) both serve to decrease a behavior's frequency.

So positive punishment gives something disliked, negative punishment removes something liked.

Further, there is an established process for shaping human behavior with operant conditioning, and it's the one we'll be learning, using, and following in this article:

  1. State Goal (tell her what you want to have happen and why)

  2. Monitor Behavior (pay attention to what she actually does)

  3. Reinforce Desired Behavior (reward her for good behavior)

  4. Reduce Incentives for Undesired Behavior (remove rewards for bad behavior)

You'll notice, interestingly enough, that giving aversive - disliked - stimuli is not in the list.

It's all about giving something liked, or taking something liked away (giving or removing a reward).

At no point in the process do you give something disliked or have to take it away (giving or removing something unpleasant or uncomfortable).

Personally, I wasn't aware of operant conditioning until later in my seduction career, and I only learned the basic principles of "reward good behavior, punish bad behavior" early on. It took me years of refining to arrive at the conclusion that using aversive stimuli was usually undesirable, and simply giving and removing incentives was far more effective.

But it is, and we'll go into why below.


The Problem with Aversive Stimuli

operant conditioningIn "End Relationship Drama with These 2 Rules," I mentioned that one of the reasons women in relationships will sometimes cause drama is to get a negative emotional reaction out of you.

That's right... sometimes women want you to give them something bad for drama.

The reasons why are a little more complex than we want to get into here, but suffice it to say that positive punishment isn't always a negative for people. Just like some children will cause trouble simply to get noticed by their parents and get any kind of attention - even the "bad" kind - so too will women.

This is the problem with "disliked" things  - if getting your attention was what she really needed, then positive punishment often isn't really punishment at all... it's incentive. It's a reward.

Rather than being a bad thing, this form of punishment gets twisted into being a good thing.

And when you punish the girl this way, instead of her being discouraged from pursuing a certain behavior, she ends up encourage, because now she knows she can get a reaction out of you with it.

This doesn't show up in lab experiments with mice in a cage - a punishment is nothing but bad - there's no additional social attention, no boost, nothing good in it at all, just pure negative affect, through and through.

But in the real world, things aren't so simple, and the aversive stimulus you mean to use as "punishment" can actually provide reward. Things like:

  • Attention (even if it's to yell at her)
  • A response (even a negative one)
  • Her knowing she can get you to react if she wants to
  • Her knowing she has the ability to push your buttons

... all simply serve to reinforce a behavior (unless the punishment is so severe that is thoroughly discourages it - we'll talk about this in a bit).

The problem with positive punishment (giving aversive stimuli... what most people traditionally think of as punishment) is that it just as often reinforces a behavior in real world non-laboratory settings as it dissuades someone from it.

And the problem with negative reinforcement (removing an aversive stimulus) is that unless you can find some way to be constantly punishing a woman in the real world, there's not really all that much aversive stimuli for you to remove.

So if we can't use positive punishing to all that good effect most of the time in our relationships, and negative reinforcement is impractical for our purposes, what can we do?


operant conditioning

If using aversive stimuli to punish is out - except in a few select cases which we'll review below - that means we've only got two (2) options for dealing with behavior:

  • Rewards (given or taken), and

  • Extinction

And aversive stimuli is out, because positive punishment (following up bad behavior with punishment) can actually serve as reinforcement, and because for us to use negative reinforcement (following up bad behavior by taking punishment away), we'd need to be punishing our partners in a relationship all the time unless they did what we wanted them to do.

Yeah, that's not practical.

So that cuts us down to three options for affecting behavior, normally:

  1. Positive reinforcement (following up good behavior by giving a liked-thing)

  2. Negative punishment (following up bad behavior by removing a liked-thing)

  3. Extinction (ignoring a behavior and letting it slowly fade away)

We'll take a look at each of these, but before we do, I want to cover one other thing:

Using operant conditioning for shaping human behavior.


Behavior Shaping

operant conditioningBehavior-shaping needs to rely on emotion. Nothing else truly works. However, when you're dealing with humans, you aren't dealing with purely emotional creatures as you are with dogs or rodents. You're dealing with beings that think, that reason, and that understand; and you'll get far more mileage with them if they know why you're doing what you're doing and can throw the force of their minds behind reconditioning their behavior themselves.

One of the big fears of people first hitting this website is that it's all manipulation. There's a scary word. Here, we are manipulating people like puppets on emotional strings... pull them this way and they do this, pull them that way and they do that.

With the operant conditioning process of behavior shaping, you get to wash your hands of any charge of manipulation. You tell the person you're using this with exactly what you're doing, make sure they understand it, and then do it.

Chances are, if you're doing it for the right reasons, they'll even support you on it.

The process goes like this:

  1. State Goal (tell her what you want to have happen and why)

  2. Monitor Behavior (pay attention to what she actually does)

  3. Reinforce Desired Behavior (reward her for good behavior)

  4. Reduce Incentives for Undesired Behavior (remove rewards for bad behavior)

So, let's say you have a girlfriend who has the habit of texting while the two of you out at restaurants, which you go to twice a week because you both enjoy eating outside. You consider it disrespectful that she's texting during your meals and think it looks bad, and ask her to stop. She says she will, but keeps doing it anyway.

Following the above process, you do this:

  1. Tell her that you find it rude that she texts during dinner, and you'd like her to stop, and you know she would too, but she keeps forgetting. So you're going to start taking a week off from going to restaurants with her after each restaurant-texting slip up. She protests; you tell her, no, this is the only way we'll change that behavior, so we're going to do it.

  2. You keep track of her behavior, and stay aware of when she's reaching for her phone out at dinner with you.

  3. When she doesn't text during dinner, you keep going to dinner with her as planned (positive reinforcement; you keep giving her something she likes). When she does, you take the next week off from going to dinner (negative punishment; you remove something she likes).

Here's another one. Say you're dating a girl who's really cool and really cute, except that she keeps using some specific phrase over and over again and can't seem to stop ("Ohmygodzounds!" is the one we'll use for this example). The first 20 times she uses it, it's funny; after that, it's just irritating. You ask her to stop, and she says she will... but doesn't.

So you:

  1. Tell her that because you want her to stop using that and you don't think she can on her own, you're going to help her, and any time she says "Ohmygodzounds!" you're going to point out to her that she said it, and then you're not going to speak to her for 20 minutes, and you don't want her speaking to you either.

  2. Then, you pay attention to that word.

  3. When she doesn't use it, you continue speaking to her as usual. When she does, you point it out to her, tell her you can't speak with her for 20 minutes, and then tell her you'll talk to her again in 20 minutes, and go in another room and shut the door.

You might have to do that 3 or 4 times the first night you start doing it with her, and once or twice the second night, but by the third night she'll be all but cured, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you'll have rid her of something you simply could not rid her of any other way.

That's the power of operant conditioning for you.


How Rewarding Works

Rewards are used to encourage a behavior, or at least not discourage it.

For instance, we can assume that your girlfriend enjoys talking with you. So being able to talk with you normally is a form of positive reinforcement. Taking that away is negative punishment.

There are all kinds of rewards scattered throughout your relationship. Anything that she enjoys, that makes her feel good, and that she values that comes from you is a reward. These include:

  • Spending time together
  • Talking with one another
  • Being seen in public together
  • Being physically affectionate
  • Having sex with one another
  • Going on outings together
  • Going on trips together

... and any number of other things you can think of that you do together.

You can give her more of these things as rewards for good behavior, and less of them as penalties for bad behavior.

Rather than add something aversive as a response to bad behavior, simply remove something she likes, like going dancing with her.

You must make sure the reinforcement is right for the behavior you're shaping, of course.

If you cancel a vacation with her because she hogged the covers again, that's a little much. And if you seek to reward her making you a 6-course meal when she never cooks by talking to her a little more than usual, she's going to be disappointed and underwhelmed.

Match rewards, or the removal of those rewards, to the behavior being reinforced or punished.


How Extinction Works

teddy ruxpinSometimes something will be minor enough that you don't need to use the giving or taking of a reward to deal with it. It's the equivalent of a young child who learns a dirty word and keeps using it because people keep laughing... as soon as the laughter stops happening, the word stops getting used.

Your relationships work exactly like this.

Imagine your girlfriend came up with a nickname for you that you aren't too fond of. Say she decided to start calling you Teddy Ruxpin, because you wore a shirt that kind of looked like the shirt Teddy Ruxpin wears one day. For reasons we won't explore here, you don't like being called by this name.

What do you do?

You don't use positive reinforcement. You don't use negative punishment.

You just ignore it.

So when she shows up at your apartment and says, "How's my Teddy Ruxpin doing today?" you simply don't answer. You just stay engrossed in what you're doing. When she says, "Jerry, you okay?" you look up and say, "Hey babe, how was work today?"

Then, every time she refers to you as Teddy Ruxpin or asks you a question and calls you that, you simply pretend not to hear her.

Eventually, this goes away, and Teddy Ruxpin is extinct.


When to Use Positive Punishment (Aversive Stimuli)

As we discussed in "Women and Drama" and "Fighting in a Relationship: Causes and Cures," there are a few times when you DO want to get angry, fight it out, and outright positively punish a romantic partner for bad behavior.

You'll use this when a girlfriend is:

  • Accusing you of something harshly
  • Being extremely rude or deliberately hurtful
  • Making threats (this is a big one; you must have zero tolerance for threats)

... and anything else in that category of "extreme and petulant."

What kind of aversive stimuli should you use?

Either:

  • Righteous anger and indignation,
  • Kicking her out / leaving, or
  • Breaking up with her.

In that order of extremity. Usually the first is enough for dealing with these, but sometimes a situation calls for more.

I won't go over these again since they're already covered in detail in the two articles just linked to. Do have a look at those if you'd like to know more about them.

If you're wondering why something less strong than these isn't an option, it's because anything weaker falls into the realm of passive aggressive.

If you simply rely on, say, sarcasm, or bitterness, as a response to very bad behavior, that's actually passive aggressiveness, and it comes across as weak. It is, therefore, not effective punishment. Use righteous anger instead.


Is It Really That Simple?

Yes - behavior shaping is really that simple.

Just tell her what you're going to do and what you want the result to be, monitor the behavior, and reinforce it one way or the other.

That's what I told that mother to do with her daughter, and that's all you need to do in your relationships.

There's no need to yell, chastise, or get upset about something that hasn't happened, or something that has (most of the time). Instead, simply:

  1. State Goal (tell her what you want to have happen and why)

  2. Monitor Behavior (pay attention to what she actually does)

  3. Reinforce Desired Behavior (reward her for good behavior)

  4. Reduce Incentives for Undesired Behavior (remove rewards for bad behavior)

... and you're golden.

Instant (well, almost) good behavior... and you won't even have a small scale rebellion on your hands, or have to go snatching sugar cane from a baby.

Chase Amante


CORRECTIONS: I'm much obliged to Slightly Confused for catching the error in terminology throughout the earlier version of this post. I'd mixed up "negative reinforcement" with "negative punishment," and stated repeatedly that you should not use punishment except in extreme scenarios. What I actually meant was you should not use aversive stimuli in extreme scenarios. Slightly Confused called this to my attention, and the article has been corrected. Thanks, SC.

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Comments

Blackdragon's picture

Giving back drama creates more drama.


Most men don't realize that when a woman starts screaming at you, if you scream back at her (or "correct" her or "set her straight" or tell her the behavior is "unacceptable" or whatever), you are giving her *attention*, and that's exactly what she wants from you. (The fact it's negative attention is completely irrelevant. Attention of any kind is what she wants.)

Therefore, she will continue to maintain the exact behavior that pissed you off in the first place.

Great post.

Chase Amante's picture

Drama Begetting Drama

Author

Thanks BD.

Yeah, it's a natural human reaction to get upset on being challenged, but except in those extreme cases (where you come down on her with such ungodly wrath that she damn near soil her pants and never wants to do it again), doing so only encourages that behavior more and more.

How's tricks with you these days - same old, same old?

Chase

Nick's picture

Hey Chase, I remember you


Hey Chase,

I remember you mentioning how some women like one you dated only find relationships exciting if they are punished every once and a while. So this info is awesome to know.

Also, what is your opinion on stoicism? Is it a good character trait to have or will it kill off attraction or bore people if you don't show outward signs of excitement? I ask this because in the 2009 post on emotional buildup you said that you want to mirror or a little less a persons energy levels to connect with them more. At one time I also remember you saying that you want to remain unemotional and girls will get more excited by you but I might have remembered that wrong? The two statements seem to conflict to me but they might be unrelated? If you have the time, I would appreciate your insight.

And one more thing, thanks for the advice on my last post! I will apply what you have said.

Nick

Chase Amante's picture

Stoicism vs. Mirroring

Author

Nick-

Stoicism (indifference / impassiveness) and mirroring are both great for what they're good for, although the two have different functions.

Mirroring is necessary for building connections, yes. If someone's wanting to build a connection with you, but feels like you aren't mirroring her back or aren't close to where she's at with behavior / actions / emotions, there'll seem to be a gulf. In the case of connection-building, stoicism doesn't work that well.

However, in other cases - overly-exuberant women in a nightclub, for instance, or someone who's trying to test you or tool you, or girls acting uppity and challenging - stoicism rules the day. It ignores bad behavior, providing no reinforcement, and quickly leads to extinction of that behavior.

Think of mirroring as positive reinforcement, and stoicism as extinction. You'll use them at different times, to further different aims, and following different behavior (mirroring for good behavior, stoicism for bad or unproductive / not useful behavior).

Chase

studentofthegame's picture

Hi chase.I am currently


Hi chase.I am currently trying to learn Spanish.and many people have said that getting a girlfriend who speaks the language I want to learn can provide essential motivation that could make the process easier.I don't want to come off as I'm trying to impress her,yet I don't want it to seem like I'm using her.what is your opinion on this? Thanks :-)

Chase Amante's picture

Spanish-Speaking Girlfriend

Author

Student-

In my experience, it helps somewhat in learning the proper tones and pronunciation of the language, and you can have her teach you different words here and there, sure. Although, having a girlfriend who speaks the language is no cure-all. I had a Spanish-speaking girlfriend for over two and a half years, and I still only speak around 50 words of the language. However, my Peruvian accent is pretty solid on those few words I do speak.

Anyway, if you mean what my opinion is on including this information when first meeting a girl, I wouldn't bother. If you tell her you're trying to learn Spanish, it only sounds like trying to force a connection. I'd just leave that to the side, and if the two of you end up dating, when she finds out you've been learning Spanish it'll just be a cute little nice-to-have.

Chase

Zac's picture

things that can be avoided


Hi Chase,

i agree with you here. A lot of things parents, boyfriends do that deem as punishment turn out to be a reward. This will be a hard thing to master, especially if you not used to listening, as in paying attention to the bigger picture. But I assume when you the nice guy who used to calibrate how to gauge people reaction, you can actually have a somewhat an edge in this topic because you intuitively read things very easily.

Zac

Chase Amante's picture

Niceness

Author

Zac-

Yes, exactly.

Most people dealing with problems are either overly nice (they just let things happen and don't do anything about them), or overly firm (they flip out and make a big deal out of anything that passes a certain limit with them).

But the way you want to deal with most problems is a mixture of niceness and firmness. That's the combination most men lack (nice guys are too considerate without being firm; jerks are too firm without being considerate; genuine men, alternately, have a well-balanced approach of consideration and firmness), and it's one you'll see as a recurring theme throughout seduction and social skills in general... that interplay between consideration and firmness.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

The second example of reward


The second example of reward punishment for saying "Ohmygodzounds!"; seems a little extreme. I think any self respecting person would laugh in your face if you told them to stop saying that or you will punish them. My guess is that is just a hypothetical example not a real life example. Now if the word was say "F***" that makes more sense.

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Second Example

Author

Hi Anon,

Actually, that's one that I've used repeatedly in relationships, with 100% effectiveness across the board.

The part that may be lacking in how it's communicated is that this one's usually somewhat funny, in that the girl keeps saying something annoying, you keep telling her to stop, and finally you tell her, trying not to laugh, that you're simply not going to talk to her for 20 minutes the next time she uses it. She laughs and says, "Really? Come on!" and you laugh and say, "Try it! You think I'm kidding...!"

Then she does it, and you point it out and tell her you're going in the other room, and laughs and says you've got to be kidding me... and then you do it. And then it happens again. And then again.

And then it stops being funny to her and starts being annoying. And as soon as the emotion of annoyance and irritation is anchored in her mind to that particular word or behavior, it evaporates from her vocabulary or repertoire, and she stops saying it or doing it.

Try it sometime. It's funny, and it's very effective.

Chase

Slightly Confused's picture

Clarification on Article


I am confused with something in the article that seems to contradict itself. You state that we should not use punishment in our relationship but then the example of the girl using the annoying phrase, the dinner texting girl, and the cancelling the vacation all seem to be using negative punishment (i.e. the remove of a positive stimulus to decrease the behaviour in the future). Can you clarify why this is not a contradiction and explain how to know when you are using negative reinforcement instead of negative punishment? (something like: by telling her what you are doing it changes from punishment to reinforcement)

To further clarify: from what I understand, reinforcement always makes the behaviour more likely while punishment always makes the behaviour less likely. Positive operand conditioning always adds a stimulus after the fact (can be a reinforcement or a punishment) while negative operand conditioning takes away (can be a reinforcement or punishment), as you stated in the beginning of the article. In all of the cases I mentioned above it seems that we are not trying to make the behaviour more likely but instead decrease its occurrence. Thus these reactions would be a form of punishment (unless we were somehow reinforcing the behaviour of someone when he/she is not doing what is annoying). We are also removing something, such as talking to the person, going out to dinner, or going on a vacation. Thus it seems to me that you are advocating using negative punishment instead of positive punishment. If that is the case can you explain why negative punishment is better than positive punishment and other forms of reinforcement (such as positive punishment is too harsh and it is too hard to reinforce all of the times when they are not doing it)? If I am mistaken can you explain why?

Chase Amante's picture

Re: Clarification

Author

Slightly Confused,

You're completely correct; I've mixed up the two here. Sorry for the confusion and the incorrect use of terminology.

What I'm terming "reinforcement" here is incorrectly labeled, and is actually "appetitive stimulus." What we're avoiding is not "punishment" but rather "aversive stimulus."

Thanks for pointing out the error. This article requires some revision, which I'll tackle tonight or sometime tomorrow - the update should clear up the confusion.

Chase

Chase Amante's picture

Corrected

Author

Corrected - thanks again, Slightly Confused.

Chase

Slightly Confused's picture

Thanks for the Correction


Thanks for the new article. I was wanting to understand it really well since the topic seems very important. It is a lot clearer to me now.

Operand conditioning seems to be key to not only relationships as you mentioned here, but pickup as well. A lot of your articles, including the latest one on girls being aloof, uses positive reinforcement to reinforce girls doing things to move the interaction along and negative punishment to dissuade them from taking actions that hinder it. So I really wanted to understand the underlying concepts well. And the articles do a good job of clarifying the appropriate response, which I appreciate.

It does seem that negative punishment is the way to go in most cases, since it is hard to think of all of the effects attempting to use positive punishment may have, such as giving attention. Negative punishment, when done appropriately, seems to be much better because: 1) we are tying that good feeling to us or something we provide and 2) it makes it come off as more of a challenge to get those stimuli, which make them more valuable. I hadn't thought about it that way before reading the article.

Thanks for handling my earlier comment so well. I'll have to remember how you responded for when I run into that situation in the future. If you want another article idea, you could write one on corrections. It could talk about how to handling being corrected in different situations as well as when and how to correct others. The article could differentiate between corrections based on opinions and based on facts and could talk different situations such as pickup, a long term relationship, being out with friends, meeting someone new, and in a business situation, like one were a boss says something incorrect (or the boss corrects you), when you are with peers, or when you are talking to a customer. It also could cover the situations when you should and should not correct yourself when you realize you are wrong and the long term effects handling the situation a certain way may have. I realize that may be too big of a topic to cover but hopefully it gives you some ideas or something you can use.

Chase Amante's picture

Correcting Yourself

Author

SC–

You’re very correct, positive reinforcement / negative punishment is a big part of the pickup process – I was focused on rewarding and punishing since the beginning of my pickup career, but I think anyone who spends enough time in-field naturally figures out you get the best results by rewarding and granting attention for good behavior and removing rewards and attention for bad.

You also have a great insight on negative punishment there. The goal ultimately in pickup is to become such a valuable guy to have attention from – and to provide such desired attention – that its removal instantly makes the girl regret having lost that attention. Obviously, the effects of this get stronger and stronger the better your fundamentals are and the rarer a find you are for most women. In relationships, the effect of fundamentals and personal desirability is still there, but its modulated by the fact that it’s a relationship, and no matter how strong or weak someone’s base attractiveness, their attention is still desired by default to some degree (or else the relationship wouldn’t exist).

The article on corrections – yeah, that’d be a fun one to write, actually. There are some weird rules in pickup about correcting yourself – a lot of times, even if you’re very, very wrong, you need to stick to your guns regardless, even if you realize it, at least until things calm down / the pickup is over. It’s an emotional elevation thing – if emotions are cresting, a course correct mid-crest can cause a crash. But when people are rational, if you’re wrong, if you don’t correct when you’re clearly wrong, you’ll simply lose those people’s respect (although you may also whip more ardent, unquestioning followers up into a frenzy… religious and political leaders use this sometimes). Anyway, it’s weird – I’ll do an article on it sometime real soon.

Chase

The M's picture

Behavior-shaping


Hi Chase,

Couldn't behavior-shaping come across as a bit controlling and inhumane? Why would a girl want to stay in a relationship where she is trained like a pet or a child? I guess the redeeming quality is that she knows that the relationship will be more satisfying if you each eliminate your irritating behaviors.

But running "experiments" on each other in a relationship just strikes me as...unnatural. The whole bit about skipping a week or timing for 20 minutes, for instance, feels kind of cold. If she truly wants the relationship to work, won't telling her in a very genuine and calm way what you want be enough?

It also doesn't seem to pass the "James Bond test" - I can't picture him going through either of the above things. It would look petty for a man of his caliber, and go against the law of least effort.

And then, won't she want to behavior-shape you, too? It could be kind of fun, I guess, but I don't know if that's what you were going for.

I don't have any doubts about the other techniques you described, reinforcement and extinction.

Best,
The M

Chase Amante's picture

Behavior Shaping: Too Cold or Calculating?

Author

Hey M-

I can see how you'd think so if you haven't used these before.

In fact, these are actually very humane things to use, when you think about the alternative (behaviors never getting fixed, and the partners growing increasingly displeased with one another instead of increasingly pleased, stronger, better, and happier together).

Normally you'll start by telling the person to please stop doing something and explain why it's better not to do the incorrect thing. You always want to get buy-in, of course; if you're unilaterally trying to change something the other person doesn't agree need changing, they at the very least need to understand why YOU think it needs changing and acknowledge the affect it's having on your emotions. Using the technique without this element can lead to resentment, yes.

However, simply telling someone to please stop something almost never works. Try it sometime - you can spend months telling someone to knock something off over and over again, and have it never bear any fruit (other than you wasting a lot of time and annoying the other person).

If you're good enough at stopping bad behaviors on your own, women won't need to behavior shape you. Even if you aren't, however, a woman needs to be logically aware enough of what you're doing and what she'd rather you do, and that's rare. Still though, even if she does, it's not a bad thing, and if she's doing it responsibly (like you will be), it'll help you be better and remove bad behaviors.

To imagine Bond doing this, imagine Bond looking at a woman with an impish grin, and saying, very slowly, "If you say that again, I am going to stand up, go in the other room, and shut the door for twenty minutes. And when I come out, I expect that you'll be cured." And she says it, daring him to do so, and he stands up, slowly, holding eye contact with her, and walks off into the other room and shuts the door, taking his computer with him to continue with international spy duties.

... of course, Bond doesn't really do relationships or stick around with women for more than a few months, so maybe painting the picture is irrelevant in the first place! Just try and picture a married Bond...

;)

Chase

The M's picture

Very cool


Thanks for all of the elaboration, Chase. Now I understand how to respond if a girl objects in the way I did. :) I was pretty skeptical before, but am willing to give it a try now.

Best,
The M

Wolf's picture

Getting over shyness/Getting Courage


This was a really good article Chase And all of your articles are good. I have a question though. How can I get over shyness chase? Im really shy about talking to girls I don't know trying to pick them up, how can I get some courage? Appreciate it.

Chase Amante's picture

Shyness

Author

Wolf-

Check this article out - should answer this one for you:

Overcoming Approach Anxiety

Chase

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