Just Friends: A Man's Worst Nightmare

Huh, as a girl, I'm surprised at how much insight you have on this topic, Chase. I'd say I could agree with most or all of what you've written. A question out of curiosity: would you include the list of qualities you're looking for in a girl friend into the list of a future wife?

I also have a question quite opposite to your post. I've only once had a close guy friend in my life, and find it really hard to become friends with guys. I get asked out on dates quite a lot, but I am wondering if I might be sending out the wrong signals? I can sometimes feel very relaxed with some guys, and I finally think "perfect, finally I've found a guy I'd love to be friends with and connect with", and then they seem to interpret our connection as romantic rather than friendly. I love romance, don't get me wrong, but what I'm really looking for is to become friends with a few intelligent, friendly, caring guys. How do I initiate contact with guys and follow it up, while making it clear that friendship is my goal?

And what am I doing wrong, am I missing something?

Hey Chase,

Fantastic articles, man. Really refreshing perspective on female psychology when it comes to dating.

Looking for advice on a girl. First time I got her in bed (I did it fast), I couldn't perform. This seemed to take away all her attraction for me as the next couple dates she insisted on day time and was withdrawn. Made one final push in person and she said she just wanted to be friends. I said we can be friendly, but not friends and then had no contact for a month.

Last week, we were both guests to a birthday where her friend was hitting on me pretty blatantly. I then broke my foot that night and she became very helpful and concerned. She has now been texting me a lot, initially to see if I was okay and then being flirtatious, implying I'd get a lot of women with my cast.

I'm considering doing the unthinkable and trying to escalate again. My two questions are should I be trying to meet up in person at all or is this a mistake and will put me in the friend zone permanently? Also, if it isn't a mistake, does getting her invested in ME instead of the other way around help my cause? For example, getting her to help me with a grocery run. I was also thinking maybe suggesting she gives me a massage in order to make it sexually charged cause she mentioned in a text that all the girls I'd be getting could give me massages.

A.

P.S. I've also been considering simply going for her friend that was hitting on me, but the girl's a virgin (but very hot) and I'm not sure I wanna deal with that...

we have not met actually but we knew each other through a whatsapp group and we have been texting each other daily and almost the whole afternoon and i even call her sometimes. She previously told me to call her to say goodnight before she goes to bed. She has already said yes to a date. I asked obe of her friends whether she said i have a chance in her heart and she told me yes. But she still wants to give it more time because she tells me she wants to concentrate on her studies for now....is that a good thing?? Do i really have a chance with her while she is playing hard to get??

Dear Chase,

Firstly thank you so much for all the incredible articles you have written, they have certainly improved my social life a fair amount.

Basically I just wanted to ask your opinion about my interaction with this girl I'm 'seeing'. I've been on 3 dates with her and I really felt that on all occasions we connected on a deeper level with prolonged eye-contact and flirt gestures. The thing is though she's never initiated contact with me, except when I once gave her some chocolate and she messaged to thank me. I've had to set up all 3 dates and remind her the night before whether she was still up for it. She replies to all my messages quite swiftly and litters it with emoticons (though not too excessive, maybe 1 or 2 per message). Even during these messages I don't feel like she progresses the conversation, she's happy to answer everything in great detail but I feel she never actually asks to find more about me. I tried touching her on the 3rd date, holding her shoulder as we were walking but she didn't seem to be too receptive of it, as in she didn't pull her shoulder away but I could see she was hesitant. I thought she was just really conservative and didn't want things to progress too quickly but I recently found out that she made-out with a friend of hers in a club, though she denied sex with the person probably because still in my mind, she's too conservative. She is quite a shy girl so I don't know whether that was because she was drunk or whether that's just what she does. When I see her around with her friends, she sometimes pretends not to see me though I can tell she's looking at me when I look away. When I approach her she seems all bubbly and happy to talk but again I really don't know what this all means. I really like this girl, we have had some great conversations, though I've now known her for about 3 and a half months! What should I do to know for certain whether she likes me or has simply placed me in the friendzone. And also what can I do to move on?! Thanks so much Chase! You are an inspiration to mankind.

Years ago, I was a regular at a dance club in a predominantly Jewish City near Minneapolis. I was friends with some of the other regulars, but, being Catholic, I rarely meet women there.

One night I started talking to a very average looking girl named Debbie, and before long she made it clear that she wanted nothing more from me ( or anyone) than to just be friends. I looked around the club and noticed that there weren't that many women there anyway, so I went with it. She and I talked for a few hours, mainly about her son, her family, her apartment, etc... Then toward bar close, we each went our separate ways.

A few weeks later, I was at that same club, talking to another one of the regulars, when I felt someone tap my shoulder. I looked over and it was Debbie, and with her was a very attractive woman who she introduced me to as Denise.
For the next hour or so the three of us talked, and then Denise commented that she would love to see my apartment. So I invited both of them over, and after we sat around and talked for a little bit, Denise obviously had other intentions, so I turned the tv on for Debbie in the living room, and Denise and I headed into the bedroom. After a couple of hours, they left, and I felt much better.

A couple of weeks after that, I was back at the club watching toward the dance floor, and I saw Debbie with a different woman, a definite "butter-face" (great body -- but er face!). After a few minutes I caught Debbie's eye and she and her friend came up and started talking to me. I must have already had one too many, because after no more than about 10 minutes after Debbie introduced me to "Riesa", I suddenly realized that I was moving my hand up the inside of Riesa's shirt, and as I did, she just kept moving closer to me.

So about 15 minutes later they agreed to come back to my apartment. And same thing -- Debbie sat in the living room, and Riesa and I hit the bedroom. They left early in the morning, and Riesa got my phone number but would not give me hers. But a week later she called and came over, and then once or twice a month for about the next eight years she would call and come over for an enjoyable evening.

And another one -- I had a girlfriend for about 3 months, and during that time one of her girlfriends occasionally joined us to watch a movie, or go to a comedy club, or whatever. About a year after that relationship ended, she needed some help moving things around in her house which I did, and after that was done, she told me that her girlfriend was looking for someone to date. She told me that she wasn't sure if her girlfriend would sleep with me on the first date, but would most likely do so by the second date. I politely declined that offer.

The point of these stories is simply to show that having friends who are women is not always a bad idea. After all, not only did I not have to try to prove anything to those women, I didn't even need to so much as buy them a drink. I was already friends with their girlfriend, so I was in like flynn!

I found the article and all the comments very interesting. Thanks. I have been seeing a woman for a long time. We hang around, go on vacations together, movies, beach... I have to precise that we are both older than most of the contributors to this post. Everything would be great, if she would accept to be intimated with me. She does not want to sleep with me. I do not ask her anymore because I do not want to lose her. We do not life together. Please note that it is very difficult when you get older to find someone you really like to share times with. Yet, I have to admit that I am quite upset and frustrated. I am fit and decently good looking. Things are quite complexe and delicate. She explained to me that she had been abused when she was young. She also added that for her, our friendship means more than sex. I truly understand that she went through some difficult times. However, quite often, I feel humiliated. I am reluctant to present her for an ultimatum due to her bad experience. But sometimes, I want to ask her to accept me as a lover if she wants me in her life in the future? At the risks to be even lonely again in the coming years... Not easy!

Wow, I recently went through an ordeal very relevant to this. There we moments that I was out of the friendzone, I got her into bed multiple times and we fooled around and whatever, but for the majority of the time I was there. It lasted 5 months, and I only cut her off last week, which turned about to be one of the hardest things I've ever done because I let us get so close in that time.

(http://www.girlschase.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9931) - Full story here.

But man, I was in direct violation of all the 'don'ts' you mentioned. It all seems so obvious now.
Thanks so much. I know what not to do, and what TO do next time, which is this Saturday.

This is absolutely true man, you make me open my eyes today. Right now I'm in the same situation and I don't know what to do. It hurts so bad to just put her out of my life like that cause I've been working so hard trying to fuck her and I end up and in the friend zone. The thing that I don't really get is she met my bestfriend in one day and my bestfriend in the same day they met. I was like wtf! Me on the other hand I've been trying so hard, poor me lol. I got played and got betrayed but today I know that I would never made the same mistake again. If you got any advice, comments please.

Really interesting articles and stories from contributors here. My story is that this girl moved in as my housemate last year. We got on really well but I never tried a move though I would do practically anything for her because I was crazy about her. One day she even said that she had had to think hard before moving in because she was afraid a relationship might occur. There was just the two of us in the house and she didn't go out much as she was also doing a Masters as well as working. There was a spare bedroom in the house and one night she asked would I mind if her (female) friend stayed the night there as she and her friend would be having a night out and I said fine. Turns out that they bring back 2 guys they picked up that night for sex. I kicked her out (told her I couldn't say anything to her because she paid rent but her friend had no right to do that) and she said ok but hoped that we'd remain friends. I'd meet up with her a bit after that. Then I meet her by chance on a night out with a friend of her's ( a different female friend) and she was pretty cold with me - but not with the other guys in the nightclub as she was like a complete and utter tramp. I met her a little later that night and she completely ignored me, blanked me. She apologised by text the next day but I replied in a curt manner and basically said that I wished her all the best but I wouldn't be in contact again. Her reply was that she didn't want to be on bad terms but I just replied with "OK". Been no contact since and if I meet her again I will just blank her.I think I have done the right thing as she knew damn well that I was crazy about her but just liked the idea of some schmuck idolizing her and putting her on a pedestal. My advice in situations like these is to just drop them but don't lose your dignity by getting angry with them and God forbid don't tell them that you're hurt. Even supposedly 'nice' girls don't give a second thought to your feelings but will jump into bed in a second with some douchebag who moves fast and they will act like Mylie Cyrus with Robin Thicke in front of you with other guys and you don't even merit a miliseconds thought.Drop them, move on and forget.

all that that you wrote is what I have become.......it is very sad........I will dump her after we come back from another of our adventure trips! Yes I am that foolish......I feel used and stupid.
Thank you man!
A.

just got rejected and found this page on google because i needed...something. i'm glad i'm not the only one out there. so much truth in the article...

First off I am terrible with women and have always been friend zoned. But what if the girl outclasses you by a LOT. Lets say you are a cashier at Walmart and the girl you are getting to know was raised in Belair, daughter to one of the most high profile producers in show business, and her family is worth over fifty million. She is genuinely getting to know me...but I would need crazy game to pull this girl, something which I don't have.

Chase. You are a bloody LEGEND. This site has really been a wake up call for me. I'm grateful to you.

Hi Chase,

In this article you talk about how a man needs to do three things to NOT be LJBF'd by a girl. However, I did all of these things (I think) and still got LJBF'd and even to this day I am still baffled. I will describe my situation below.

On the first day of exercise physiology class, I sat in an empty seat beside a cute, blonde girl. She started talking to me first (which I recognized as a good sign) and we talked for a bit over the preceding classes. Before I was able to get her number, she disappeared (it turned out later that she dropped the class). Fast forward 8 months and we meet again at a celebration for people of our ethnicity. She comes up to talk to me first (again a good sign) and I suggest we leave the crowd because 'I can't hear her that well' (it was just an excuse to isolate her). Since the event was at the top of what normally, in the winter, is a ski slope - we walked down the hill into a forest and sat down and started talking. During our walk down I noticed her bumping into me, so shortly after sitting down I kissed her and she seemed very receptive by kissing me back. Now, this is where I start getting confused. She tells me 'I won't take anything off'. I was surprised. I said 'Okay'. After a heavy make out session, we continue talking and exploring the surrounding area. My phone starts blowing up as my mom starts calling (ugh) me to tell me she has food for me (as she is one of the organizers of the event). The girl sasys she wants me to meet her mom and that her mom would like me. I politely declined. I go eat and so does she and we meet up again after lunch and explore some more continuing to periodically make out (I do initiate the make outs primarily and she keeps repeating she won't take anything off).

At this point, I think that she was afraid of someone walking by us, so I suggest we go to an unused washroom far from where everyone was. And we do. But she still won't take anything off and wouldn't progress any further sexually.

Eventually I had to go, so I got her number and tell her we should meet up the next week. We text back and forth a few times and she stops replying. Three days later (or so) I text her again to see when she wants to meet up next, radio silence. I text her again a few days later (because I remember she was applying for medical school and that day was supposed to be the day she got responses back from the schools where she applied). She does not reply for most of the day and replys many hours later saying something along the lines of, "this is too stressful, lets just be friends instead". I told her I had enough friends and did not want anymore. She got mad and removed me off of facebook.

Can you shed some light on this mystery?

Sometimes it seems I was born to be in the Friend Zone.

I got diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome a few years ago - and I'm 46 now.

I have always joked about how clueless I am when it comes to "reading" the signals women give me. At least now I know why!

http://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asperger.aspx

Too bad the therapists I've had are not exactly well versed in the seduction arts. That's why I'm checking out this website. I'm not interested in becoming a "player", but I understand I need to meet - and bed - different women before finding one who can be the life partner I need.

Looking back I've realized that I've been falling in the friendzone trap a lot more than most people would tolerate. As a result I have LOTS of really close female friends who I can count to, and each one of them will gladly tell other women what a great guy I am, but let's be honest: eventually everyone will ask them "If he's so good, why aren't you dating him instead?"

I've been friendzoned so many times by many different women that sometimes I wonder if it's worth it.
What I do know is that it makes me angry, so much I'm afraid I might end up hating all women for being so mean to me.

So, my question for Chase and other men that have survived this ordeal is: how can I avoid becoming a bitter man? I have male friends who are brilliant seducers but have admitted to me that deep inside they despise women. I don't want to be like that! All I want is to meet a good woman, but I also feel the resentment towards the women who dismissed me is very real and invasive, and that will sabotage my already sketchy efforts to get out there again.

Any sincere help will be appreciated.