How to Be More Aggressive with Women, Dating, and Life
As a youth, I always used to envy those men around me who acted with such directness, certainty, and speed, without any hesitation or hint of self-doubt. Growing up, I found myself defined more by inaction - by being a watcher, an observer - than by any action I took. I think most people are defined like this... stuck watching from the bleachers and the sidelines while the aggressive go-getter action-takers dominate life.
So I can understand and empathize when guys write in asking how to be more aggressive, like Wolf did in the article on being hard to please:
“Hi Chase, how can I be more aggressive in my life? I think about just being extra ballsy but I think a lot about the consequences so I end up not being aggressive. How can I be more aggressive?”
Some of this ties into what we discussed in "Threats and Opportunities;" the more focused on threats you are - when the focus is aligned in a certain way - the more you tend to retreat back from confrontation and aggressive action that might possibly end in rejection or worse.
But there's another side to this, too - and that's the inherent differences between those born aggressive, and those not so naturally inclined.
An interesting study from Greece entitled "Social Preference, Perceived Popularity and Social Intelligence" weighs in on the different types of social aggression and their impact on social status:
“Relations among social preference, perceived popularity, social intelligence and two types of aggressive behaviour were studied. Peer-estimation techniques were used to measure all major variables. Altogether, 403 Greek schoolchildren from fourth-through sixth-grade classrooms participated in the study. Both overt and relational aggression were negatively associated with social preference for girls; overt aggression was positively associated with perceived popularity for boys. Relational aggression was positively associated with perceived popularity for both boys and girls, and social information processing only for girls. In addition, as was hypothesized, relational aggression was predicted by cognitive aspects of social intelligence whereas overt aggression by lack of social skills. Overt aggression was found to be a unique significant negative predictor of perceived popularity whereas relational aggression a positive predictor. Implications for intervention are discussed.”
Distilled, the findings were:
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Overt aggression is physical and verbal bullying, insulting, name-calling, and other such gestures, stems from a lack of social intelligence, and results in lower perceived social status
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Relational aggression (also called "covert aggression") is socially skilled takedowns of others' status and relationships, stems from higher social intelligence, and results in higher perceived social status
Now, that's one kind of aggression - they "attack-oriented" kind, where the object is taking an opponent down a peg or two in order to raise one's own status up higher (though this ultimately isn't recommended at the highest levels; see: "Ultimate Social Calibration: Stop Climbing the Social Ladder").
The argument I'd make is that this same division between social intelligence and method, and between method and effectiveness (in this study, popularity; in other cases, you might deem effectiveness "the ability to get what is desired") carries over to all forms of aggressiveness - including the ability to get what you want... out of just about anything.
Why?
Because no matter what it is you're trying to do, it's almost always going to involve people, to some extent... and knowing how to navigate through the social jungle that is the wants, needs, ties, relationships, alliances, animosities, and cold wars of the people you deal with plays a large role in how strongly you feel you can take action to get what you want - or not.
The Strong Actors
So, when it comes to aggression, there are two ways of going about things:
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The socially unintelligent way, and
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The socially intelligent way
Now, I'd like to specify that each of these "strong actors" in terms of aggressiveness acts this way independent of overall intelligence.
That is to say, I've met and known some highly intelligent people overall who behaved aggressively in very overt, socially unintelligent ways. Likewise, I've met and known relatively unintelligent people overall who behaved aggressively in very under-the-radar, socially intelligent ways.
We're talking about intelligence in one particular way here: social intelligence.
Someone who's trying to get something in an overtly aggressive way does so like this:
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He threatens ("Do this or I'll do [something bad] to you")
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He cajoles ("You're clearly an intelligent guy, and you must realize this is the intelligent thing to do")
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She pleads ("Please help me out here! I've never asked you for anything like this before!")
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She bluntly insists ("Give me my money back now!")
However, someone's who trying to get something in a socially intelligent way does so like this:
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He implies a threat without stating it outright ("I've been a customer here for six years and I've always been thrilled with the service and have recommended it to countless friends and business associates, but now I'm finding myself suddenly and surprisingly dissatisfied with how things are going. I'd love to stay a customer if you can figure out a way to fix this... What can you offer me that will keep me a customer?")
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He asks questions instead of cajoling ("Would you consider yourself an intelligent guy? Okay... so in your opinion, what here is the intelligent thing to do?")
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She states her case in both hers and the other person's interest ("If you do this, it's going to benefit you in this way [list ways], and it'll benefit me too by [list reasons].")
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She smoothly insists ("How do we make sure I get my money back for a service that didn't work?")
You'll notice a few key elements in how these differ:
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The socially unintelligent person makes everything a yes/no situation - the individual being aggressed upon has either to decide "yes, I'll give you what you want" or "no, I will not"
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The socially intelligent person makes everything a multi-part decision, that is not just about what that person himself wants, but about what the other person wants (i.e., not to lose a valuable customer; to do the intelligent thing; to reap the benefits; to have to figure out how to resolve the return situation)
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The socially unintelligent person uses blunt emotions to try to get what's desired (e.g., fear, sympathy, etc.)
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The socially intelligent person avoids eliciting overly powerful emotions, instead choosing to use more subtle emotions that don't evince as strong an emotional response
Some interesting differences here. Why does one type of aggressiveness use bluntness - yes/no situations and strong emotions - while the other uses vested-interest decision making and subtle emotions?
The reason why, of course, is that anyone who's socially intelligent rejects the arguments of the socially unintelligent. And most of the socially unintelligent people reject them too. Yes/no makes it easier to say "no" than "yes" (especially if the person seems pushy... people are more inclined to say "no" to pushy people than "yes" as a defensive measure), and strong emotions often elicit the opposite emotional response of what's intended (efforts to use fear elicit anger as a response; efforts to use pity elicit disgust instead).
But what about the people who aren't aggressive at all and who don't use either of these methods for getting what they want? What's their deal?
Caretakers Expecting to Be Taken Care Of
I had a realization recently.
I was thinking about the difference between "givers" and "takers." I don't think either person is necessarily "good" or "bad," but when you throw a bag full of givers and takers together, you get a lot of very angry and suddenly poorer / worse off givers and a lot of suddenly wealthier / better off takers who nevertheless are confused at why the givers who just gave them so much are so very angry at them.
And I asked myself, "Why is this? What is the key difference in how these people see the world?"
The issue seemed to be one of mental models. And what I realized was this:
Givers give selflessly to others because they expect those around them will return in kind, and their selflessness will be repaid by loyalty and selflessness in return. A giver expects that if he lent out money to a friend, that friend would repay him quickly and be very grateful, because that's what he would do in that situation. When that happens, he views the friend who does as was expected as a noble and honorable individual. When that doesn't happen, he views the friend who violates those expectations as a treacherous villain and a bad person.
Takers take aggressively from others because they expect those around them will try and take what they need from them aggressively and make aggressive demands upon them in return. A taker isn't sitting around considerately thinking about what others need. He expects you to come to him with your needs and take from him what is needed. Takers see nothing wrong with taking what others are willing to part with, and they have no problem with others trying to take from them, either, because they see this as simply how people get things. Life is about telling what you want from others and getting it, and others telling you what they want from you and getting it.
Therefore, when I look at the question of how to be aggressive, I see it more as one about changing the way you see things to be much more cognizant of the fact that if you don't try to get the things you want, you probably won't want them.
The fact of the matter is that the "taker" has the far more efficient worldview.
How often will you get a:
- Fantastic new dream job?
- Perfect 10 dream girl?
- Killer male body?
... by waiting for life to recognize how outstanding you are and simply giving that to you?
Answer: never. Not in a million years.
That's not to say you ought to become a taker and simply take, thoughtlessly and inconsiderately, from others. But it is to say there might be something the taker knows that the giver has to learn from.
Aggression, then, apparently comes from a belief that you cannot really get what you want by sitting around and waiting for the world to reward you for your goodness and honor; you must go and grip the golden ring at the center of the carousel yourself.
And, how effective you are (or not) with that aggression, and it's impact (positive or negative) on your social reputation appears to lie squarely at the feet of whether you use overt or covert aggression - covert being the "likeable" sort of aggression, and over the "unlikeable" sort.
There's one other factor very much worth mentioning - and that's what we talked about in "How to Be a Dominant Man: What You Didn't Know About the 'Winner Effect'": the impact that testosterone plays on assertiveness, confidence, risk-taking, and aggression. The higher your testosterone, the more likely you are to take action to get the things that you want. Men with higher testosterone have more sex with more women, get in more physical fights, and make more money as stock traders. They also tend to die sooner.
So we now have our picture of the typical successful aggressive male:
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He doesn't believe in waiting for the things he wants; he believes in going out and getting them himself
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He's socially intelligent and uses relational aggression to get what he wants, rather than over aggression
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He's high testosterone, and is religious about monitoring his testosterone levels and refusing to take losses and testosterone hits
What can we learn from him to become more aggressive ourselves?
Hoping That Success Finds You? Knock It Off
"If I'm just a good enough person, the world will reward me!"
No it won't.
Yes, be a good person. They go farther in the long run than equally-action-oriented people who only care about their own selfish short-term needs by a long shot.
However, EVERY action-oriented person, no matter how compassionate, empathetic, or "good" (or not) goes farther than any of the people who sit around waiting for "the right moment" or "the perfect opportunity."
This requires something of a mental reboot if you're stuck in this habit. The people who wait are usually those who fear rejection. This fear must be re-channeled... channeled into a greater fear than the fear of rejection.
For me, the fear I found was the fear of leading an ordinary life - one that would be of little impact when all was said and done. Tapping that fear was enough for me to overcome any fear of rejection; it was better to go out and get rejected 1,000 times at anything in order to learn how to succeed than it was to avoid that rejection and become what amounted to a failure at achieving the objectives of my life.
What gets you motivated?
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Maybe you really want to find that one PERFECT girl for you, more than anything. Is it worth enduring hundreds or thousands of rejections from women over the course of a few years (and, doubtlessly, plenty of girls you sleep with along the way, too) in order to find her? Or would it be better to never find her so that you never have to endure rejection by women who don't want you anyway?
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Maybe you really want to have the ability to go out and charm the socks off of damn near any woman you meet. Is it worth enduring day after day and night after night of rejection to cultivate that ability so that you'll have it forever a few years down the road, or would it be better to just not bother to save yourself a few years of hardship and sacrifice a lifetime of possessing a talent few men ever will?
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Maybe you really want to build a business so that you never have to work for anyone else ever again. Is it worth struggling for a few years while you figure out the ropes, going into debt, not knowing if you'll fail and have to go back to the corporate world, so that you can emerge on the other side a competent businessman able to create revenue streams at will? Or, would it be better just to stick to the cubicle for the next 30 or 40 years?
Whatever it is, you need to kick start the process of proving to yourself that waiting around doesn't get you a damn thing.
Once you see that taking action gets you results in one area of your life, the approach of taking aggressive action on anything you want handled in your life spreads virally to everything else.
How to Be Aggressive in a Socially Intelligent Way
If you're new to getting the things you want, you're most likely going to start off rather clumsy at it. Fortunately, there's plenty of material here on the site already aimed at helping you be more effective at achieving desired outcomes socially and romantically... here's a small sampling of these:
- Move Faster
- Breaking
Circle
- Don't Let Her Go
- The
Law of Least Effort
- Persist In Your Insistence
- The Art of the Deep Dive
- Addressing Women's Objections
- Sprezzatura Effort
and Investing
- How to Ask a Girl Out and Always Get a "Yes"
- The 5 Ways
to Answer a Challenge in Social Situations
- What Does
She Want? The 8 Things You Must Ask Her
- How to Get a Phone Number from a Girl Every Time You Ask
- How
to Get a Girl in Bed: 10 Crucial Tips for Making Her Yours
- Persuading
Women: 7 Tips That Will Change How You Do Things
... and many more. Each of the above (and many more in addition to these, too) is about maneuvering aggressively for the things you want while keeping things socially on-the-level.
In fact, you might even go so far as to say that this site is really one big primer on how to get what you want in socially intelligent aggressive ways.
This takes time, and it takes conditioning. You can shave a lot off your learning curve with the programs and articles on offer on this site, but you're going to need to spend a fair amount of time out there using and testing and refining all of this for yourself in the real world with real women and men.
You'll be too blunt when you first start figuring out how to be aggressive in social situations. I know I was. But from your earlier failures spring the steps forward to success... so, as you try things and fail, you also lay the foundations for later successes, so long as you're continuing to work both hard and smart.
Boosting Your Testosterone Levels
To a certain extent, you're born with a certain level of testosterone. For some men, these levels are higher than normal; for others, they're lower than normal. For most, they're right around normal. That's the "fate" part of the equation.
However, there's a part that has nothing to do with fate, and that's the extent to which you can impact your own testosterone and, hence, base aggression levels, through controlling your environment and social and romantic situations.
I'd refer you to the article on dominance again, as that's really the authority on the topic on this site (the link is here again, in case you missed it the first time around), but here are a few boiled-down tips on boosting testosterone levels above your biological baselines:
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Win at everything, and never settle for defeat (winning boosts your testosterone levels, which leads to more winning; losing causes your testosterone to fall, which leads to more losing)
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Workout regularly and lift heavy weights (i.e., bodybuild rather than do cardiovascular workouts)
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Eat a lot of fats and proteins, and reduce carbohydrates (discussed more in Eric's article on weight loss for men)
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Get used to doing what you want, and reduce situations where you are not in command or control - be the boss at your work / company; be the alpha male of your social group (or don't have a social group); be the one with the relationship control in your romantic relationships and don't get into the habit of deferring to women (you won't like it all that much if you do, and neither will they)
There are also androgen / steroid drugs, but I'd be very wary of these. They can lead to medical problems (like plaque buildup in the heart, and fatal heart attacks - even in 20-something men), and they also have other unfortunate side effects, like the shrinking of a man's testicles (since these organs are no longer needed for testosterone production; the body adjusts to higher levels of testosterone by downsizing its own testosterone factories, the testicles).
If you stick to the four main categories above - winning, lifting, fat/protein consumption, and getting out of situations where you aren't doing or getting what you want - you'll most likely find you have all the testosterone you need.
Misconceptions About Being Aggressive
Most people who aren't by nature aggressive see aggressive individuals and shrink back in fear and horror. "Oh, that person is too aggressive!" they say.
But aggression is all in the eye of the beholder.
If you're a very aggressive person, and I'm a very passive person, we may both look at a moderately aggressive individual and react differently to him. "Oh, he's too aggressive," I, the passive person, say. But you, the very aggressive person, look at him, and instead say, "This guy is not aggressive at all."
Aggression does not make you a "bad" person, unless, perhaps, you are using that aggression in ways that brings harm to others. If you're pushing people into situations they don't want to be in that leave them worse off, that's no good; if you're taking too much without consideration for whether you're bleeding others dry, that's no good.
The socially intelligent aggressive person gets around these problems because his aggression is performed in ways that are beneficial to all. He seeks to be aggressive in ways that he is bringing value into others' lives... value that those others appreciate and want. He often will not take action until he knows what it is others want, or at least is fairly confident he knows.
Aggression is no more than going after you want.
However, the aggression that works, that leads to the most effective end state of things, and that allows you to get what you want while keeping others happy and raising your social status, is socially intelligent aggression - taking action to get the things that you want in ways that take care of what others want, too.
This is the responsible man's means of being aggressive.
Can YOU Become Aggressive?
Once you're out of victim mentality and you're following the path of the aggressive man:
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You don't believe in waiting for the things you want; you believe in going out and getting them yourself
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You're socially intelligent and use relational aggression to get what you want, rather than over aggression
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You're high testosterone, and are religious about monitoring your testosterone levels and refusing to take losses and testosterone hits
... you will get there.
I waited until I was in my early twenties before I started down the path of learning how to be aggressive in getting the things I wanted most. And while it doesn't come completely naturally, and there's always somewhat of a learning curve - for instance, had you seen me in business a year ago, you'd have considered me a pushover around more naturally aggressive partners and even employees; these days though, it's a very different story - the commitment to staying in the driver's seat is always there.
Once you make a similar commitment to getting into the driver's seat of your life and staying there, you might suffer setbacks sometimes in novel situations, but the end is ultimately assured - through the rejections, defeats, and setbacks, you will eventually emerge the stronger for it - and you will have learned how to be the aggressor.
Chase Amante
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Comments
National Rebound Day, The last 5%
Chase,
you know, i met a friend i haven't gone out to meet in awhile the day after Valentine's Day. There are a lot of women out with their friends, and i have this vibe going around that they are indeed, looking around.
I would want to ask about your success in all your credentials like sales, dating, writing. Is it really hard to have absolute abundance with friends and the girls you want to have? or does everything always revolve around that last 5% where you muster everything and everything goes easy from there? it is always the feeling i have to muster up that last remaining 5% to just grasp that rope that will somewhat lead me to the "promise land". You get what i mean? You write an article "How to Master Anything". It resonates, but it also tells me that i am really not that talented. I am not saying that i like to be labelled talented but when i fail or when i drop, i really do it badly, and it sucks though.
if you have some thoughts on how to improve, or a perspective that can help me. :) That will really push me further in everything i am trying to pursue.
Zac
Zac
The last 5%
Zac you need to read the article Ricardus wrote called The "Meaning of Grit". I think your giving up too easy. Basically if you want something bad enough you'll figure out how to get it even if it means getting rejected by 100 girls in a row (if women is what you want) otherwise your content with dreaming about an awesome life. Read the article and tap into your inner motivation that everyone has. I just started and it honestly sucks but after a while even getting rejected feels like success since i know im that much stronger and closer to my goal... Cheers to successful failures homie.
The Last 5% and Abundance
Zac–
Rob has a good point on grit. Whatever talent I have is “clumsy” talent… I make loads of mistakes while trying to learn something. I make loads of mistakes still even when I’m GOOD at something. I think the only thing that saves me is that I assume that if I want to get anything, I’ve simply got to see it through to the end.
You may be right on the correlation between closing out on the last 5% of things and on absolute abundance. For me, these two hit right about the same time: right as I started focusing on closing out the last 5% of a seduction better and better, that’s when I routinely started closing out on high quality girls very quickly as well – and those were the girls who were most likely to vanish without a trace after any kind of failed date or escalation. The higher quality the girl, the more unforgiving she is of mistakes, and getting good at closing out the last 5% is really the end stage of wrapping up your pickups into something truly tight.
Absolute abundance is tied to knowing that you can get a very high quality girlfriend within a short span of time – all you’ve got to do is go looking for her, and you’ll have her soon. And high quality girls are very intolerant of men making mistakes during seductions – one tiny uncorrected error, and you’re in the friend zone before you can blink. The last 5% is ironing out the last place most guys routinely make mistakes – putting the finishing touches on their seductions and actually taking girls who were receptive to them to bed.
If you want a simple way of thinking about this, think about improving your success rates in seduction as a process of identifying where mistakes occur, and removing those mistakes. When you can run through a seduction with a pretty girl without making any mistakes, you’ll end up with her in bed.
When you can do that routinely, you’ll end up with near-perfect abundance.
Chase
Friends
Hi Chase, thanks for this awesome blog. Your changing my life here in Denmark all the way over the Atlantic Ocean:)
I was just wondering how you can take the mindset of "taking what you want" to making new friendships.
I know the key thing is front-loading your value.
Lets say you want to front load your value as your ability to listen to the other persons achievements, HOW can this be done in real life?
I'm trying to put it into practice, but I'm not sure how to develop this skill. Some examples would be much appreciated.
- Allan from Denmark
Re: Friends
Allan–
I have a good friend from Denmark! Scandinavians always strike me as some of the most perceptive, good-humored, well-mannered people there are out there. Good people.
If you’re looking at friendships, the view needs to be, “What value do I bring to this person’s life, and what value does he bring to mine?” You need to know what you want in a friend (e.g., someone to do fun stuff with; someone knowledgeable in this area or that area; someone to have great conversations about business or women or life with; someone who could potentially be a business contact or business partner down the road; etc.), and then look for it and screen for it actively.
On getting people talking about their achievements, I have an article on that exactly – and the question it’s written in response to is from my Danish friend, in fact. Here it is:
Guy Talk: Here's How to Kick Butt at Talking to Other Men
Chase
Thanks
Thank you for your advice, I am going to read it, re-read it and then start implementing it :)
I will let you know at another opportunity how it went.
- Allan
Moving Girls
Hey Chase,
My friend and I have been religiously reading and following your advice for about 3 months now. Your work has really changed are lives and our outlook on meeting women. Many thanks to you for that. We are seriously struggling with moving girls. I think our fundamentals are sound. We pre-open, we approach from the side and not directly, and use direct or indirect direct openers. Most girls eagerly engage us and we make them comfortable quickly with light banter and we even deep dive although we try to keep that to a minimum before trying to move them ASAP. That's where we always have a problem, they just don't want to move no matter how persistent and even aggressive we get. 9/10 girls refuse to move. Are we asking for too much by saying "hey listen its great talking to you, let's go sit down right there because its too loud to talk here" ? Please help Chase !
Thank you in advance.
Trouble Moving Girls
Anon-
Glad to hear it on you and your friend! With the moving of girls, it's hard to tell, but it sounds as though the ask may be coming across too unsmooth. Generally you want something quick and commanding - "Let's grab a seat, it'll be more comfortable" followed by extending your arm for her to take or hand for her to grasp, and looking at her expectantly. If what you say takes too long, or you come across hesitant or uncertain in any other way, it won't work.
The other thing it may be is if either A) your fundamentals aren't strong enough that you have good initial attraction, and B) you aren't building up investment by getting other forms of compliance before you ask girls to move. If you have strong fundamentals and girls are into you right away, you can sometimes go straight into moving them after only a few minutes of conversation; and if your fundamentals aren't as strong but you do a good job escalating compliance, you can quickly move girls much of the time too. But if your fundamentals aren't there yet, and you aren't getting compliance, you face an uphill battle.
Check those three things and see if anything stands out:
Your problem is probably somewhere in there (my guess is the first one).
Also - if you check out the discussion boards (here), we have a field reports section where you can share the details of outings you've made and have other guys take a look and give you feedback. It's a valuable resource if you have any particular points where you're getting stuck or just want to start chronicling your outings to better remember things, parse the lessons from them, and learn better and quicker.
Chase
Myths About Approaching & Is Fear Real?
Thank you Chase for writing this article, it makes so much sense. So I guess most people fear things because of low T.
Chase what are some myths about approaching women and is there any real thing to fear at all? What I mean by myths is what are the realities of approaching instead of all the negatives.
Ex. A guy thinks girls don't want to be approached, but in reality they enjoy meeting people.
I Mostly mean on how guys think compared to what really happens.
Is fear real? Does the fear you imagine ever really happen to you or is it just negative thinking.
Hope I made sense and thanks again for such a great article.
Fear
Wolf-
Fear's almost always a response to imagined, illusory danger. Fear's almost never in real proportion to danger. e.g., nobody's afraid of driving and hardly anybody's afraid of crossing the street on foot, even though those are statistically the most dangerous things by far most people do. Generally speaking, the more exposed you become to something, the more fear fades, recedes, and disappears altogether.
If a guy approaches a girl and is awkward, it will be awkward for her too. If a guy approaches a girl and is smooth and cool and charming and suave, on the other hand, she's going to be thinking about that approach for weeks to come. Of course, the only way you get from being the awkward guy to the smooth, cool, charming, suave guy is by doing enough approaches that you get it down. So, to a certain extent, you will need to swallow some pride and just go do it... but pride is the only thing you'll lose. If you're afraid of anything more than making a little bit of a fool of yourself, it's an irrational fear. If you're afraid of making a fool of yourself... it's just part of the learning curve. Get through a little while being a fool to get to a place where you never need to be a fool again - the price is paid upfront, and the dividends for that admission fee are paid out in a lifetime of being able to meet the women you want without worrying about it.
Chase
Cool topic Chase
Right on, Chase. I really like topics like these!
Anyways, can I get a quick briefer on when girls just walk up to you and give you their number? What's a recommended waiting time for the first text? some other tips? You obviously don't have to make a full artcle out of it... just a response, please! I'd imagine it'd be a different dynamic/protocol than going and actively getting a number from a girl.
Girls Just Giving You Their Number
Walls-
Well, you may simply be a better-looking man than I am... I can't say I recall ever having had a similar experience!
However, my gut would be you simply don't want her to just walk up, plug her number in, and walk away. It's a ballsy move on her part, but it puts you completely into pursuit if you're trying to text her saying, "Uh, hello, Mystery Woman? This is that guy you gave your number to earlier tonight... my name's Walls. How's it going?"
If a girl tries this, I feel like you'd need to grill her at least a little bit - something like, "Whoa, hold your horses. Who are you and why would you like me to take your cell phone number?" She'll give some dismissive response about how you should take it because she's cute, or something, which puts you completely in pursuit if you text her (i.e., you're texting because she's attractive, not because you know anything about her).
This could be a validation play - the girl's just going around showing herself (or her friends) how much men want her because she just offers them her number and they take it, and then she gets to feel like a pretty princess later when random men start texting her.
Anyway, I'd call, rather than text. You need to start screening / deep diving her right away to give her a chance to impress you so that you have a reason for continuing to spend time on her, otherwise she'll (rightfully) assume you're only talking to her because she's cute (after all, that's all you know about her).
So, in this case, I wouldn't text at all, just call her, and be intrigued-but-skeptical, and get her explaining herself and talking about herself.
Chase
contradicting
"....overt aggression was positively associated with perceived popularity for boys. ...Overt aggression was found to be a unique significant negative predictor of perceived popularity whereas relational aggression a positive predictor."
Like the article and it makes sense, but the above article quote seems to contradict itself with regards to overt aggression, unless the second part was referring only to girls.
Contradicting Claims
James-
Good catch. That's a hard one to make heads or tails of.
My guess would probably be that boys using overt aggression quickly learn to only use it if they're on top of the heap; i.e., the big boss who scolds subordinates or the high school or college jock who shoves scrawny kids.
In the full research paper, there's a chart plotting the findings, with a correlation of 0.42 for overt aggression to perceived popularity for boys, and 0.47 for relational aggression to perceived popularity for boys - both pretty close. So, according to those findings, overt aggression actually IS desirable for boys - although somewhat less desirable in comparison than relational aggression is.
When the effect of the different types of aggression on perceived popularity is done, the authors of the paper appear to have calculated this overall rather than separately for males and females. Unfortunately, math is not my strong suit, so they lose me on this formula, but if you're interested, it's here:
Chase
Self gratification
Hi Chase,
Love your stuff. This topic is a bit random but you have never mentioned it... What do you think of self-gratification? Looking at porn and No fap movement etc. you know what I am talking about.
With your life I assume you get pussy when you want so there is no need for... but for those of us that aren't at your level..
I went for 100 days did feel calming and in control though still looked at it here and there but no fapping.
Do you think a lot of the benefits are just placebo? Sure others would be interested in a post on this topic.
Thanks and keep up the great work!
Re: Self-Gratification
Lucacris-
I'll throw it on the article queue, a few guys have asked about this.
My thoughts on masturbation are that if you're actively going out to get girls, it's best saved for jump starting a dead battery if you go too long without getting a charge, but otherwise left alone.
The research on pornography shows that as viewing of pornography in a given country goes up, rape goes down, which is one signal that men are getting their needs for sex / power / dominance met virtually rather than actually. I've also seen a lot of anecdotal evidence on "porn escalation," where porn addicts escalate from one type of porn to another, more extreme type, and then from there to yet another, even more extreme type, and so on and so forth, to the point that real women don't really do it for them all that much anymore.
There are also studies that find that the men who masturbate the most are also the men having the most sex, simply because having a lot of sex shifts them into horniness overdrive. The masturbation doesn't seem to aid that boosting - rather, it seems to be an outlet for excess sexual energy build-up.
From everything I've seen, giving your sailor the ol' rub-and-tug serves mostly to deplete sexual energy and motivation to get girls. If you go on too long a dry spell though (say, more than two weeks without sex), you may find your sex drive begin to wan, and in that case one release can be enough to get you raring to go again, but more than that seems to dampen that urge. Pornography is the enemy of a sex drive for real women; if you must masturbate, you'll help your sex drive tremendously more by closing your eyes and imagining past lovers than you will by watching pornography, which is a very different (voyeuristic) experience than imagining you are actually having sex with a woman yourself.
Chase
Condifence is the key to a girls Puss..i mean hart
great article,
it all really comes down to confidence.its funny because i was on a very big dry spell.i had been working out and changed my body language completely then one day i picked up a 8/10 by mistake ..i don't know what i did right or wrong but the confidence boost i got from it was life changing,i have never looked back since.
how does that relate to the article?
if you confident in your own skin then you will have the courage to be more socially aggressive and more receptive to rejection.What i would recommend (in the article already) is to really keep working out and eat like a man should be eating,so in other words stay in shape that will have a positive effect on your confidence and will keep the T up!dress well, smell good (SERIOUSLY) and smile, stay clean, fit and a bit edgy (tattoos accessories attitude fashion sense whatever works for your so find something you like).
its not an easy road but the journey will be highly rewarding not only do you pick up girls but you also become and overall better man will more presence and character.
Lucky Breaks
Beamz-
I had a friend once refer to this as "catching lucky breaks," as in, "it's hard to start getting success with beautiful women before you've had success with beautiful women, so the best thing you can do is keep taking cracks at it until you catch a lucky break here or there and break into success."
There are a lot of things like that in seduction (and elsewhere)... sometimes really all you can do is just keep swinging for the fences until the day you hit one over, and after that you remember the feeling and not just imagine but KNOW what to do and can really get serious on learning how to do it consistently and on-demand.
Chase
Sharp post .my question is
Sharp post .my question is that how can u avoid living a short life while on high testosterone?
Testosterone and Health
Student-
From Wikipedia's article on testosterone:
The heart attack risks and other health risks are mainly only at very high doses (i.e., the kinds used by some men who are bodybuilding, often illegally, depending on the country). At only mildly elevated levels, you'll actually see positive health effects.
So, unless you're injecting heavy amounts of steroids, the biggest risks to a long lifespan you face with testosterone are behavioral: because testosterone increases your propensity to take risks, that also increases your tendency to have brushes with death, and the likelihood that one of those brushes is more than a brush.
Best advice for a long life with elevated testosterone? Make sure you know your limits, and never let yourself forget them, no matter how unstoppable you may feel as a result of what's coursing through your veins.
Chase
I am just bad with women
All your articles are interesting but I realized one thing. I am just suck with girls. You may think that I am being negative but I just speak from results. Some guys have it really hard and I have been broken hearted 2 times but my dream girls. Can't be coincidence that neither found me attractive but thinking about it now. I really can't blame them. I mean I don't know what to offer a woman. I tried to have the balls to invite them home. I managed with one and I got the fuck**g lets just be friends. And the same from the other one on our date. I work in the gym for a year I have gained strength but still really skinny. I am good at dancing, skating, boxing but defiantly not to a level of dropping people's jaw of from admiration. I like history books and I try to work on my fundamentals but no matter what in social situation I would still mess them up especially because I am saw insecure about women. I really I am so hurt I don't I can really succeed with girls. It just doesn't work with the women that I really like. No matter what, no matter making my intentions clear bla bla bla. Just doesn't work for me. I don't know why I am writing but I need help. I hate the fact that I can't change a woman's mind about me. And once in the friendzone always in the friendzone. I am sorry for my negativity but I missed on some awesome women and I am a bit bitter because I really wish I was just doing the right things because though I tried I failed. And those women don't come very often in my life.
Bad with Women
Anon-
Yeah, I've been there. When I first started teaching myself this stuff I was writing reports of my outings every other night talking about how maybe other men could learn how to get women but I just couldn't, it just didn't work for me. Whatever other men had, I just didn't have it.
The only thing you can do when you're feeling that way is force yourself to just get out and just keep meeting lots of women. Bars, nightclubs, day game, whatever you have to do, be meeting 30 to 50 new women a week and keep working on your approach, on your fundamentals, and on everything.
You need to get your skill base down with women you AREN'T tripping over your feet over before you're ready to step up and play in the championship game (you know... the girls you really like). Nobody ever makes it to the playoffs without slogging his way through the regular season, first.
Build your skills with women up with lots of different women, so that when you meet the girls you REALLY like, you'll be able to execute according to the same process you've followed hundreds of times already during the regular season.
Keep at it and you'll get there - just keep getting back on the saddle.
And, post some reports on our field reports board on the discussion forums - there are lots of guys there who've already been there and can have a look at what you're doing now and help you pinpoint what you need to do different next time.
It worked for me when I was new, frustrated, and fatalistic ;)
Chase
Being aggressive with a shy girl
Hi Chase!
Thanks for your article! I currently live in a graduate school dorm housing and there is a girl that works at the front as a security monitor/front desk attendent. I know shes a college student too and was wondering how best I should approach her. The situation here is a bit different as shes a bit shy and she's always there so I was wondering if I should first build rapport with her (talking to her for 2-3 times) before asking her out. Or, would it be more conducive to directly ask her out? Thanks Chase!
Front Desk
Jeff-
Yes, with that kind of social situation where you're seeing her repeatedly, talk to her socially a few times first before you ask her out. It's somewhat similar to meeting a girl in class:
Cute Girls in Class? Stop Flirting and Start DATING
... although less constrained as you can take some time and really sit and hang out with her and get some good conversation going.
Treat it like a phone conversation, and don't plan to ask her out at the end of a long conversation - either have a long conversation, and plan to leave at the end of it, or ask her out right at the beginning if you've already talked to her a few times before and this is the time you'll ask her to come do something with you.
Chase
On preopening
Hey chase,
Thanks for your advice last time. It worked really effectively and he no longer tries to boss me around.
Anyway I was trying to apply the non touch preopeners into my work. I work at a restaurant and I'm supposed to draw in potential customers walking by. I guess in theory I'm supposed to set a chase frame to make the passerbys more likely to come in. I wait for them to make eye contact with me before I can return it, smile, and say "Good evening, Thai food?"
However this is harder in practice as hardly anyone will initiate eye contact at the bellboy unless they already want to eat.
I realise this complication carries over into actual seduction as well as you have to passively wait for the girl to look at you. Though arguably, it can be mitigated by buffing up on my fundamentals.
I also tried to find a way around it by using Eyes That Draw. But on the rare occasion it does work, their eyes don't linger long enough for me to react in time.
I would like to know your thoughts on this matter. Thanks.
Pre-Opening
Doobie-
Non-touch pre-opening works best with highly socially aware and socially confident women because they're the ones most likely to readily meet the glance of someone looking at them and not shy away from it. But that's why usually for pre-opening you'll be using some sort of physical contact to get her to look at you - so that all those other women who aren't the "super aware" variety will bite, too.
Relying on eye contact as an opener is hit-or-miss. You'll get some girls (or customers), but mostly only the ones who are either very outgoing or very into you (or Thai food, as the case may be). So, you can use it - but it won't always work.
I was in a city a month or so ago where many of the nicer restaurants had people standing outside to greet passersby and invite them check out the menu. Most of these people I simply avoided eye contact with, and they said or did nothing - I mentally checked them off as "tentative." One guy in particular I recall - some young Indian kid - jumped right up in my face with the menu and a big smile and asked me very enthusiastically if I'd like to have a look at the menu. I couldn't help but smile back and tell him I might on my way back; I knew exactly where I wanted to eat that night, but I was still tempted to look.
Sometimes you've just got to get in front of people, face rejection, and win their attention to break them out of whatever autopilot it is they're in.
Chase
Trust Issues with perfect 10's
Lemme start off by sayin Chase, ur blog is awesome bruh. Everything u talk about is true n at some level, I kinda knew some of these things but, the way u put everything together into actual words is AMAZING n for that I thank u.
Ok now...heres my problem: U see, when it comes to women I cant complain, I do pretty good. For the most part I tend to date a lot of cute girls (girls who I consider out of my league) n a few dragons here n there but my problem comes with trust. Whenever I start datin a really cute girl I jus cant seem to trust her, either I get jealous (I hate that feeling) or I get very self-conscious n believe she might leave me for the next best thing. This doesn't happen to me with "OK" lookin girls, only with 10's. I know this cant be healthy n its costing me a lot of cute girls! Howcome I cant relax n be cool about it n trust them? Is this normal? Do all guys who date out of their league feel this way?? I need some help man cuz I'm startin to think I should jus settle for a dragon n avoid all the headaches lol
Anyway, some advice would be greatly appreciated. Oh n if u need some advice too lemme kno haha (Quid Pro Quo)
Thanks Brotha!
Jealousy with "Out of Your League" Girls
NBT-
Feeling jealous / suspicious with girls you still feel are out of your league is pretty common. It's actually a fairly logical response... your brain says, "This woman is out of my league. Therefore, she is only with me because I've managed to fool her into thinking she is NOT out of my league. However, as soon as she figures out she IS out of my league, I'm in big trouble, and I'm going to lose her."
There are two things you can focus on to reduce and eventually remove this:
The first one is about making these women more relatable. They're still somewhat on a pedestal with you (see here: Women on Pedestals), which is no good for the relationship. You need them off those pedestals pronto, and learning enough about them that you fully realize they're nothing but normal, ordinary people, just with prettier looks than most, is what gets them there.
The second one is about becoming a very value-giving person in general. The reason a lot of the emphasis on this site is on conversation is because I view becoming very good at conversation as the most efficient way of providing lots of value to most people's lives in a hurry there is. When you're good at conversation - not just talking, but also the nuances, like cold reading, figuring people out to a nuanced degree, picking apart people's psychologies and telling them why they think and do the things they think and do - you're suddenly an enormously valuable person just to have around and talk with - a natural leader. Once you have that down, even very beautiful women will start thinking of you as out of their league.
Also, keep in mind, if you're a highly self-improvement oriented guy, and you're advancing and refining and tweaking and upgrading all the time, if you date a girl for long enough, even if she was out of your league when you met her, at some point you're going to catch up to her, and then pass her. Her looks decline as she ages, and if she's like 999 people out of 1,000 she isn't upgrading herself all that much as time goes by either. Most people get to where they're going to get to when they're young, and then they just stay there or decline. Very few actively, consistently upgrade and improve.
Chase
Wow! Thanks Chase, I did not
Wow! Thanks Chase, I did not expect a response this fast. Once again everything jus makes sense when u put it into words! -"This woman is out of my league. Therefore, she is only with me because I've managed to fool her into thinking she is NOT out of my league. However, as soon as she figures out she IS out of my league, I'm in big trouble, and I'm going to lose her." That's EXACTLY what I was thinkin. I have no problem gettin beautiful women, its KEEPING them that's the issue. I get told I'm a charming/smooth/easy going/ loveable person so I kno I offer some sort of value,.....I guess when I start datin really beautiful girls I tend to downgrade myself n forget that I TOO bring a lot to the table. Thanks man, real confidence booster!
Now....if its not too much trouble, I have another question which has been bugging me even more than the last lol
Now I dont kno if this has happened to u or not but, for me it seems like the more I learn about women n the better I get with seduction....the more I get into my head n more problems come up! (Ex. I'll be at an all-time high n be on fire with girls n have dates for weeks but then....out of nowhere, I'll hit all-time lows n get into my head so much that I cant plan my next move n wont even talk to girls cuz I get bad anxiety!)
I kno you've mentioned plateaus before, but what im trying to say is, it seems like the better I get with women, the worser the plateaus get (the higher the HIGHS, the lower the LOWS) Its like I have to reboot myself n start all over again when im in a bad plateu (start all over with fundamentals, then deep diving, then screenin and qualifying, etc) until Im back to normal, its a whole cycle! Does this happen to the more experienced guys out there or is it jus me? N if it does happen to everyone, is there a faster way of gettin out of a plateau without havin to go through the whole cycle again? I wonder if my seducing skills will ever jus become automatic without havin to deal with plateaus.
I hope this makes sense n I didnt confuse u, you are much better than me at puttin problems/ideas into words so I hope u can help me out here lol
Thanks again Chase!
Higher Highs and Lower Lows
NBT-
It sounds like you're a highly emotional guy who's running on emotional spikes and falls (like what we talked about in the article on emotional cresting, except on a scale of weeks or months as opposed to in specific interactions), and this is more an emotional response to things going your way or not. Sound accurate?
If that's the case, I experienced that earlier on in learning seduction, though it went away after the first six months or so of going out hardcore (3 to 4 days a week). Most of the guys I've seen this happen with longer term were guys who weren't going out as consistently, and at that point, it really might be more random variation than anything else.
e.g., if you ever watch basketball, they'll talk about guys "getting hot" or "going on a hot streak." That's where a guy gets a bunch of baskets in a row, or doesn't miss a free throw for however many attempts. A team of researchers sat down and asked the question, "Does a guy on a hot streak really perform better, or is it pure chance?" What they found by averaging the guy's performance out is that he's no more likely to make a free throw during a "hot streak" than he is at any other time, based on his average free throw percentage. Both "hot streaks" and "cold streaks" are just the kind of lumpy stretches of inconsistency you expect with any highly variable endeavor. Flip a coin 50 times in a row, and you'll get a couple of stretches of 4 or 5 or 6 heads straight and 4 or 5 or 6 tails straight. Same with going out - you'll go on streaks (hot and cold) as well, and the less often you go out, the longer these hot and cold streaks can seem to last.
Typically, once you reach a certain degree of skill, your brain naturally acclimates to hot and cold streaks and these kinds of peaks and valleys stop affecting you emotionally. You come to see them as normal parts of going out, and simply work to shorten the lows and lengthen the highs, by getting more consistent and forging on ahead through the low periods.
Chase
a different dilema
Hi Chase,
I would definitely say that approach anxiety has deterred my approaching of women to some extent. I have the bad habit of being with (and staying too long with) mediocre women bc I'm satisfied on a physical level and realize that I don't have to go out and approach anymore. I'm not even bad at talking to women, in fact what I do for a living is almost essentially the same thing albeit over the phone.
I've been trying to get over approach anxiety as I want to find a higher quality girl then what I'm currently with. I know you recommend to go out with a set list of goals to overcome approach anxiety. My problem is I feed off my confidence. I fear loosing my confidence when/if I'm denied after an approach which will consequentially sabotage myself on the next approach. Am I paralyzing my self by over analyzing? I've been thinking about setting a "approach 3 women when you go out" goal. But part of me is saying call over your booty call and delay this for another weekend. Any advice is well welcomed. Thanks
Anxiety vs. Comfort
Robby-
I wouldn't worry too much about confidence, actually. I've had plenty of nights where I went out and got shot down 10 or 15 times in a row and felt like dog food, and then I saw a pretty girl and said, "Sigh... what the heck, might as well go say 'hi,'" and a little bit later we were going back to my place. In fact, having a few nights in a row like this was one of the milestones in my development as a seducer - I went out one night, got shot down for hours by every girl I saw, was angry and upset at myself and nearly went home, and then ran into a pair of girls I immediately took home. The next night, same thing - getting shot down left and right, probably 15 or 20 rejections, and then I took a break from getting rejected to talk to my pals for a few minutes, spotted a really pretty girl staring at me, went over and said 'hi,' and that was that. After that, I never worried about "good nights" or "bad nights" again - it was all just random variation. Some nights she's the first girl you talk to, some nights she's the 20th. You won't know unless you keep talking to girls until you find her.
On the booty call - personal preference here, but I gave up friends with benefits in 2006 for this reason - not getting comfortable with a woman who isn't up to my usual standards. My philosophy is, a high caliber girlfriend - okay, that's valuable; she's someone I want to be with, I'm learning and benefiting from being around her, and I'm subconsciously reassuring myself that, yes, beautiful, intelligent, dynamic, strong women are crazy about me and want to be around me; picking up new girls - yes, that's valuable; I'm continuing to hone and test and refine my abilities, and I'm reaffirming to my brain that meeting women is not difficult, and even high quality women are relatively easy to snag, so I remain in an abundance mentality.
But friends with benefits I can't see a justification for... if you need sex, it's better to channel that urge into motivating yourself to go out and get better with women - then you're learning something, getting sharper, and improving. If you keep a mediocre girl around as a sexual release, you basically take that motivation - one of the most powerful motivations you can get as a man - and chuck it away. Finally, there's also the risk that you get so comfortable with a friend with benefits - and so used to going out that you lose any abundance mentality you had, and this girl who WAS mediocre begins to seem more and more special and rare - that you get locked in.
Anyway, that's just my opinion, but I much prefer to channel the sex drive into something productive, like forcing myself to go out and pick up and stay sharp or get sharper if I want a release, or transmuting that drive into working on an important project, like a business I'm building or a skill that I'm learning. Seeing a mediocre FWB simply struck me as too much waste of a good thing (the sex drive), to me.
Chase
no social group?!
how was your tip "not to have a social group" meant? ironically or seriously? and if the latter how would that look like to have no social group?
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